S10.E01: Sex, Lies and Video Debates

[ZaldamoWilder]

On 11/7/2019 at 1:45 PM, ghoulina said:

I mean, Teresa literally brought a guy on the show to reveal Melissa's "shady past as a stripper". I would probably enjoy seeing some karma play out as well. But, at least, she does the right thing on the surface and defends her SIL - even if she's secretly beaming inside. 

I know. She's so proud that he considers a woman he's nipped and tucked to death to be a "trophy". I'd feel sad for her if she weren't so pompous. 

Tre could just ask her lawyer if she didn't understand things. Honestly, I don't really have an issue with the kids being kept abreast of the legal issues. But I can totally see Tre relying on Gia, almost as a surrogate spouse. 

Which is exactly what we see happen in the preview of next week's ep

Spoiler

Gia and Tre are sitting in some store's dressing room while Tre and Joe talk.  She puts him on speaker, he says some slick at the mouth thing and Tre complains to her 18 year old daughter about it.  The point of Gia's outburst right then isn't even I'm a kid don't drag me into your mess, it's that's my father you're talking about so relax ya mouth.    Hoo, lawd.

On 11/7/2019 at 1:50 PM, Kdawg82 said:

^ Yes to this.  I sort of thought the same RE: Gia. She's a pretty girl but DAMN what a know-it-all and self important she came across as! And these kids need to stop acting like the prom is some big right of passage.  It's not a wedding, it's not a birth or death, it's not even a drivers' license...it's a school dance.  As you've gone to a dozen by now I'm sure. My dad was at work during my prom and my mom couldn't give a fu** & I paid everything myself. Everyone saw how badly Milania took Joe's going away. I always thought she was daddy's girl. 

I still can't feel bad for them with raking in the $$ still. Teresa: "i had to pay restitution so with the leftover $$ I'm putting in a pool"....um...say again!! Leftover $$!? Who has leftover?! What of lawyer's bills & house maintenance & taxes? My home is the size of their garage and without Mr. Kdawg doing it all himself around here, I'd go broke paying handymen etc. 

Awwww.  I feel you sweets, same (dad out of the country, mom napping inside).  Shiiid, there's no evidence I existed before 20.   But let's get out our feelings for a sec lol, this family celebrates every "event" they can imagine into a milestone.   I would say even if they weren't over the top, the prom departure is kind of a hubbub for a lot of families.   It's probably a double hubbub this time because she's the first and we can see she's going with Frankie.   That's as nice as I'm finna be about this kid, lemme move on. 

On 11/7/2019 at 2:41 PM, sATL said:

I was thinking Dr. Evil was probably using Jennifer for practice- to learn/ keep abreast a new technique or skill. Train a new assistant. Log teaching hours. acquire training annual hours Nothing like a willing dummy model.

Me:  seeing what

You:  did there

21 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I'm not trying to re-litigate season four, but all that we were privy to was Teresa getting her hair done with Kim D when a man approached her and said that he knew Melissa, and that she used to work for him "at a little gentlemen's club in Elizabeth."  Teresa was literally speechless.  Later on, at the finale party, the guy showed up, everyone at the table started silently texting like crazy, Melissa pulled Teresa into the bathroom to ask her what happened, Teresa was noncommittal, and Melissa called Joe, who came down there, and Melissa instructed him multiple times to scream "shame" at Teresa from his car.

Turns out, Melissa had worked at a strip club before she met Joe, as a bartender, and after getting all up in arms about it, she reversed herself and said "it would have been stupid not to," in a very bitchy voice.  So, if Teresa had blindly defended Melissa and said Melissa never worked at a strip club, she would have looked like an asshole.  My opinion was that Teresa got set up there, she never brought anyone on the show, and there is a tremendous difference between having bartended at a strip club before you met your husband and cheating.

Just to be clear, I think Teresa has been/is cheating, and I don't think it's Melissa's job to clean up her messes, but if they are going to be sister-in-laws in each other's lives, I think it's entirely appropriate for Melissa to tell people they can't discuss Teresa's cheating allegations in her presence, which she did, and which I applaud her for.  I don't think Teresa had the same duty to defend Melissa about something that, on its face, isn't patently bad.  Melissa said she wore a tank top and sneakers when she bartended, which is pretty much what i wore when I waited tables at Hooters in college.  I couldn't give a damn who would bring that up; I would not take it kindly if someone said I was cheating on my husband, absent proof.

I do have to say that I think that if proof comes out--not just evidence, but proof--it's no one's just to spin it for Tre.  She's on her own there.

Right, and I'm meeting Gia where she wants to be.  I am saying, ok, Gia, if you want to be treated like an adult, then explain how Joe's case is going to get to the US Supreme Court.  If Audrianna said it, I'd be like, "poor girl misses her daddy.  That's so sad."  Because Audrianna is a kid.  But if Gia wants to be treated like an adult, and she legally is an adult, and she's running her mouth about how her dad had better stay in ICE detention until his case can be heard by the Supreme Court, then it's going to get really grown really fast and I'm going to want her to explain the grounds on which she thinks five of the nine Justices will grant certiorari (aka even agree to hear her dad's case).  Because the Supreme Court only takes up a very tiny amount of cases per year, usually when the circuits are split on an important issue of Consititutionality.  These appeals take years, sometimes decades.  JMO, but Gia doesn't get to dicatate that her dad sit in jail for additional years after his sentence has been served, because she has a prom coming up.  I am sorry that no one explained that to her.

And I have been thinking about the girls that have been 18 on this show while I was driving, and none of them have been this bitchy.  Coming closest is Ashley, who was a bitch, but she was a bitch who wanted to be left alone, not getting all up in adult business, Lauren was just an idiot who didn't know the difference between a dictatorship and a democracy, Lexi was dealing with her mom's second divorce and she still had a sunny disposition, Dolores' daughter was an extremely pleasant young woman, Kathy's daughter Victoria was a very good girl, even with the occasional outburst against her family's bullshit, and then there is Christine, Danielle's daughter, who was dealing with arguably as much as Gia is now, who wasn't quite 18 the first time Danielle was on the show--but Christine stayed calm in the face of people attacking her mom, her mom giving blowjobs to 26 year old men and Christine was just like, "they just want you for your goodies" to Danielle, and she moved on.  

All this to say that I think Gia is a special brand of bossy, because Teresa and Joe treated her like an adult way too early and created a monster, and I think Gia is a control freak, which might just be in her genes, and she can't help it.  But I think she needs therapy and perhaps a journal, and she needs to stop bullying people below her before she damages them and I think she should speak to Teresa's lawyer so that she can educate herself.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe Teresa offered to let Gia talk to her lawyer a few seasons ago when Gia was asking questions Teresa couldn't or wouldn't answer.  This could all be helpful enough to keep Gia from lashing out at others, which just causes damage.  

Dammit, this is gone sound like I want it take it to the Halls of Justice.  I think Mel's overarching dispute with Tre about that was simpler than the discovery bearing that guy out.  In a nutshell:  you failed to defend me.   The reason I even care is that whether it's with Jackie, Joe, Jacqueline, Caroline, whomever, Teresa's mantra where no one but Melissa is concerned is:  as soon as you heard [________] had my name in their mouth, you shoulda shut it down because you're my sister in law and because family sticks up for family and because, for Tre, the refusal to participate does not equate a defense.   ::smoothsskirt::

Come through, Thug Life!   Yup.  Girl when she got to "I told daddy if he didn't fight this all the way to the Supreme Court, we wouldn't have a relationship"

You can't be out here knucking and bucking all loud and wrong.  Lol.  I said bless this baby's heart.  She must be talmbout the Supreme Court of Morris County, because.....please.  At the age I AM NOW, let my ass comment on something I'm only supposed to be earhustlin.  Tuh.  Every Auntie within earshot, family or not, is swinging around like   

That's her parents' fault for sure but she can hear herself.    Quit been-grown.    

17 hours ago, brillia79 said:

Tre is a slumlord, a thief and has a temper/violence problem. Mel worming her way onto RHONJ is the least of her life problems. You’d think someone who has to watch her kids go through hell because their dad is getting deported due to his criminal activities/laziness in filling out paperwork would get that.

Tre’s just mad that she tried to call Mel a bad wife for not “controlling her husband,” but got checked by Jackie re: controlling her own man who was incarcerated at the time.

Stay mad, Tre.

It's still statement t-shirt season I see.  Lol!! 

If that's Marge's new face in the Bravo Christmas commercial, I'm here for it.  It's her, but pulled back, the eye sockets are perfect, she needs to stop right here.    Speaking of stopping, Jen your lips actually do look like a baboon's ass.  I don't know if they did the last time Margie brought it up, but since?  Yeah that's...ooooh.

It's gonna bother me if Jackie loses that unbothered quality she had last season.   Girl make that condescending smirk even more joker like, stand still and drive them bitches insane while you stir your drink.    

What's the name of Dolores' boyfriend's practice?  What's the name of Dolores' boyfriend?  mmhmm, just like I thought, ya'll don't even care.  Lol.  Me neither though.   Frank looks more and more like the lunk from the Planet Fitness ad whose only line is:  I pick things up and put them down every time I see him.   Don't he?  Like he's gotta come through the front door turned profile.  Tell the truth.  ::fingersnap::  it's David!  On the one hand, he's super laid back and is happy if his woman is happy.  On the other, I can't get invested in a man I think is a punkass for wanting to see some healthy boundaries respected.  It's a fine line lol.  Frankie.  When I see Frankie, God forgive me, I turn into Anne Bancroft.  

If only there were some other thing the pool money would be better served being put towards.  Oh, I know!!  159 more tuition payments.  -_-   but you know whaah? (™Rosie) water in the back yard is nice too. 

Edited November 8, 2019 by ZaldamoWilder
one day typos!! one day!!

[zengirl1215]

On 11/7/2019 at 4:19 PM, walnutqueen said:

So Gia chose a Uni close to home so she could see her Dad, if her dreams came true.  Now she's stuck just being close to Teresa.  Heh.

Rutgers University (New Brunswick) is a good school and not the easiest to get into. I know kids who weren't accepted there. Though it's a huge school with tons of undergraduates, one must score at least a 1250 on their SAT's and hold a 3.6-4.0 GPA in high school to get accepted. So, yes Gia chose to stay closer to home but it's not like she picked a crappy school.

On another note...I absolutely loathe Jennifer. When she speaks, it's pure nails on a chalkboard. And her comment about being a "trophy wife" was comical. The delusion is HUGE with this one! 

[LibertarianSlut]

2 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

but you know whaah? (™Rosie)

OMG, I am dead at that characterization. 

2 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

I think Mel's overarching dispute with Tre about that was simpler than the discovery bearing that guy out.  In a nutshell:  you failed to defend me.   The reason I even care is that whether it's with Jackie, Joe, Jacqueline, Caroline, whomever, Teresa's mantra where no one but Melissa is concerned is:  as soon as you heard [________] had my name in their mouth, you shoulda shut it down because you're my sister in law and because family sticks up for family and because, for Tre, the refusal to participate does not equate a defense.   ::smoothsskirt::

This is the reason why I can't quit this franchise:  there are so many contours in the triangle between Teresa, Melissa and JoeGo, that I don't know if I'll ever tire of analyzing it.  They're all always so wrong that it's hard to find merit in any of their positions, but it's sometimes amusing to try.

Here I go:  I've been saying this a lot on the boards lately, but I believe in ignoring people who you don't like.  I have a sister-in-law that I cannot stand.  She's not a bad person, and we never had a sprinkle cookie-pignoli cookie standoff, but I just dont want to see her and she's not in my life.  I don't suffer and I don't miss her. So...

These people don't need to be in each other's lives.  Teresa pre-existed Melissa on the show, and I always keep that in mind.  Dina and Caroline came on together, so they had parity.  Melissa wouldn't have been cast if not for Teresa, so does Melissa owe Teresa a little something?  I dunno.  But without Teresa, Melissa would be sitting in the ugly doll house with no furniture, fending off Joe's "poison" and thanking Jesus for Versace.  

Melissa owes her presence on this show to Teresa IMO and I'l say why:  Teresa got big by flipping a table, yes, not exactly solving cold fusion, but every once in awhile when Melissa gets a bee in her bonnet and throws a glass and says "that fucking girl," it goes over like a lead balloon.  She is boring and is getting more so.  When was the last time she had a storyline?  She doesn't own that store--she owns a piece of it, I think 10%--and she is a liar who is unrepentant.  I can't get over that she lied about the nose job, looked into the camera and said it was contour makeup, and only admitted it when she was outed by Jacq.

Teresa is an unrepentant liar too, but I think if she were confronted with the truth, she would hang her mouth open, blink rapidly, do hand gestures, but, eventually she will say, "I didn't want to admit it because it looked bad."  Melissa isn't even capable of that, even though she's smarter.  So, while I hate Teresa, I think Melissa is worse, and I can't wait for the government to catch up with the Gorgas.

Then there's Joe.  I actuallly think he's the worst of all.  First of all, it bothers the fuck out of me that he gets TH's.  He is always advocating manhood, masculinity, cleaning is for girls, etc., but I think he's just a little bitch.  A real man isn't a constant mediator over the course of decades because he's afraid of alienating people.  A real man, like a real woman, will take stock of a situation, and realize what is right and wrong, and I think Teresa did enough wrong here for Joe to once and for all throw his support behind his wife and refuse to entertain the situation further.  He really enables the fighting and the backstabbing by trying to remain "neutral," when the irony is that Teresa would back down big time if he just stayed steadfast and sided with his wife.

So, I don't even think Melissa and Teresa should interact.  They don't like each other.  If they need to be together for family gatherings, which I don't even really get, but, kids, whatever--if they're together, they should just be cordial:  "hi, please pass the stringbeans, bye."  No need to compliment each other's outfits or any of that bullshit.  That's fakery, not cordial.  The fact that they're on a reality show together and have this constant drama just makes me really dislike them intensely.  Even if they found themselves in a Mexican standoff where neither one was willing to leave the show, they should just be cordial while filming.  They should pay each other no mind; otherwise they're selling out their families for a paycheck.  What does that say about them?

But--or should I say "but you know whaa"--if they are going to continue this charade of being allies, then Melissa has a duty to shut down cheating rumors and if a man comes on TV to say Melissa worked at a gentleman's club, Teresa has a duty to say, "I don't know anything about that, but I'm not interested.  By the way, why are you talking to me?"  So, yeah, I guess upon further evaluation, Teresa was wrong.

I just feel like this is all played out against such a cynical back story, beginning with JoeGo's jealousy of JoeGiu's relationship with his father and turning his son's baptism into a brawl, Melissa feeding info to Danielle, etc., that I just have to decide who is the least wrong in any given situation, being that they're all three pretty much always wrong.

I still don't understand exactly where the rift began, even though I have seen every single episode of this show.  The only explanation we were ever given was that after Melissa and Joe got married, Teresa and Melissa "got competitive."  Over what, is a question I'm too frightened to ask.  But, filling in the blanks, it really does seem like Teresa resents Melissa's existence for having the audacity to be someone that Teresa didn't hand-pick, and I will always think she can fuck all the way off with that one.  One of Teresa's beefs with Melissa is that they were at Christmas with Teresa's parents, and Joe got a call from his ex-girlfriend and Melissa stormed out and Teresa took offense on behalf of her parents.  This is the only place where I'm 100% on Melissa's side.  She's allowed to set her own boundaries with her significant other, and if there was a rule not to have contact with exes, Melissa is entitled to her reaction and Teresa doesn't get to say a fucking word, in my book.

So, I hate them, they're here, I'll watch, they interest me, I think they're all hypocrites, and maybe that's why I don't mind Jen and Jackie as much.  I didn't even mind Amber.  The organic friendships and conflicts that arise between strangers and friends-of-friends just makes so much more sense to me than an extended family who is about two degrees away from incest, whose collective IQ is about the same as a box of hair, who is now bringing another generation into the conflict, because one of the adults is in jail. 🙇‍♀️🙋‍♀️

[Gigi43]

4 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I like him too. I know some people find him creepy, but I don't get that at all. He's a cantankerous old man at times, but he's really there for those girls. He's cooking for him, listening to them, and promising to be there for Gia - for all the things Joe is going to miss. I think he's a sweetheart deep down. 

I don't. I think he's a lot of the cause of his children's issues. He treats Teresa's kids well but even before Joe Gi was "away" he seemed to clearly favor Teresa's daughters. He complains a lot -even to Gia about her uncle- that he never sees Joe and wants to see more of Joe.  Nothe that he'd like to see his 3 other grandkids more. I unfortunately know people who favor grandkids in large part because of how they view the in-law parent and that's the vibe I get here. He likes Joe Gi from the neighborhood and dislikes Melissa the stranger who dared enter the fambly so Tre's kids win. I also know the old Italian mentality of demanding respect from the next generations without giving any. Last season he complained to his son that he sees him when his wife is gone right in front of Joe and Melissa's kids. He bitched them out at Easter in front of all the kids and puts his gripes about Joe and Melissa on Gia, as does Teresa. Teresa is probably so used to doing it with her father she thinks that's how it works. If he wanted his kids to get along he'd keep his issues separate to not fan flames but it seems hes been playing favorites forever. Joe himself disrespects Melissa in front of his kids, probably a learned behavior based on how his father acts. 

[Angelsmom1009]

On 11/7/2019 at 8:21 PM, Dance4Life said:

Nobody is buying that house! It is a trailer on steroids.   Supposedly, the ‘new’ house was really an addition to an existing structure.

Not even bank wanted it back!

As pretty as Melissa’s house looks.......they could not sell it, either.  It was on the market for years!

Who can remember the whole ‘Beavers live in the Walls’....claims!  🤣

😂😂😂 yeah, I’d be really, really surprised if either of them sell their houses. The Gorga house is still on the market and has been for over a year. As far as McMansions go, I do like Melissa’s better than Tre’s, but the mortgage and upkeep has got to be uber expensive on both. A pool isn’t going to help either. Summer comes and goes in a blink here in the Northeast, so you use it maybe 2 months tops. It’s covered and maintained the rest of the year, which is expensive in itself. Pools are probably a bigger selling point in warmer states, not here in NJ, when you can go to the shore or community pools instead 🤷🏻‍♀️

[HunterHunted]

On 11/9/2019 at 10:30 AM, Angelsmom1009 said:

😂😂😂 yeah, I’d be really, really surprised if either of them sell their houses. The Gorga house is still on the market and has been for over a year. As far as McMansions go, I do like Melissa’s better than Tre’s, but the mortgage and upkeep has got to be uber expensive on both. A pool isn’t going to help either. Summer comes and goes in a blink here in the Northeast, so you use it maybe 2 months tops. It’s covered and maintained the rest of the year, which is expensive in itself. Pools are probably a bigger selling point in warmer states, not here in NJ, when you can go to the shore or community pools instead 🤷🏻‍♀️

I was completely perplexed about the pool too. Spring is especially labile in the Northeast. It snowed during my grad school graduation in May. I might spend a little change to run the water, electrical, and gas lines for a potential pool and outdoor kitchen, but not build them. Although, there might be some merit to actually buying or building a pizza oven because people always want them, but they never go through the effort or expense of putting one in. And if I were to put any real money in that place for sale, I'd spend it landscaping at least an acre of it because it's basically 90% scrub forest and their tacky house on 4 or 5 acres.

Edited November 14, 2019 by HunterHunted

[tinaw]

On 11/7/2019 at 12:57 PM, poeticlicensed said:

Dr Aydin or Zod? You tell me 

I see zod 😂 😂

[poeticlicensed]

On 11/8/2019 at 7:07 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

OMG, I am dead at that characterization. 

This is the reason why I can't quit this franchise:  there are so many contours in the triangle between Teresa, Melissa and JoeGo, that I don't know if I'll ever tire of analyzing it.  They're all always so wrong that it's hard to find merit in any of their positions, but it's sometimes amusing to try.

Here I go:  I've been saying this a lot on the boards lately, but I believe in ignoring people who you don't like.  I have a sister-in-law that I cannot stand.  She's not a bad person, and we never had a sprinkle cookie-pignoli cookie standoff, but I just dont want to see her and she's not in my life.  I don't suffer and I don't miss her. So...

These people don't need to be in each other's lives.  Teresa pre-existed Melissa on the show, and I always keep that in mind.  Dina and Caroline came on together, so they had parity.  Melissa wouldn't have been cast if not for Teresa, so does Melissa owe Teresa a little something?  I dunno.  But without Teresa, Melissa would be sitting in the ugly doll house with no furniture, fending off Joe's "poison" and thanking Jesus for Versace.  

Melissa owes her presence on this show to Teresa IMO and I'l say why:  Teresa got big by flipping a table, yes, not exactly solving cold fusion, but every once in awhile when Melissa gets a bee in her bonnet and throws a glass and says "that fucking girl," it goes over like a lead balloon.  She is boring and is getting more so.  When was the last time she had a storyline?  She doesn't own that store--she owns a piece of it, I think 10%--and she is a liar who is unrepentant.  I can't get over that she lied about the nose job, looked into the camera and said it was contour makeup, and only admitted it when she was outed by Jacq.

Teresa is an unrepentant liar too, but I think if she were confronted with the truth, she would hang her mouth open, blink rapidly, do hand gestures, but, eventually she will say, "I didn't want to admit it because it looked bad."  Melissa isn't even capable of that, even though she's smarter.  So, while I hate Teresa, I think Melissa is worse, and I can't wait for the government to catch up with the Gorgas.

Then there's Joe.  I actuallly think he's the worst of all.  First of all, it bothers the fuck out of me that he gets TH's.  He is always advocating manhood, masculinity, cleaning is for girls, etc., but I think he's just a little bitch.  A real man isn't a constant mediator over the course of decades because he's afraid of alienating people.  A real man, like a real woman, will take stock of a situation, and realize what is right and wrong, and I think Teresa did enough wrong here for Joe to once and for all throw his support behind his wife and refuse to entertain the situation further.  He really enables the fighting and the backstabbing by trying to remain "neutral," when the irony is that Teresa would back down big time if he just stayed steadfast and sided with his wife.

So, I don't even think Melissa and Teresa should interact.  They don't like each other.  If they need to be together for family gatherings, which I don't even really get, but, kids, whatever--if they're together, they should just be cordial:  "hi, please pass the stringbeans, bye."  No need to compliment each other's outfits or any of that bullshit.  That's fakery, not cordial.  The fact that they're on a reality show together and have this constant drama just makes me really dislike them intensely.  Even if they found themselves in a Mexican standoff where neither one was willing to leave the show, they should just be cordial while filming.  They should pay each other no mind; otherwise they're selling out their families for a paycheck.  What does that say about them?

But--or should I say "but you know whaa"--if they are going to continue this charade of being allies, then Melissa has a duty to shut down cheating rumors and if a man comes on TV to say Melissa worked at a gentleman's club, Teresa has a duty to say, "I don't know anything about that, but I'm not interested.  By the way, why are you talking to me?"  So, yeah, I guess upon further evaluation, Teresa was wrong.

I just feel like this is all played out against such a cynical back story, beginning with JoeGo's jealousy of JoeGiu's relationship with his father and turning his son's baptism into a brawl, Melissa feeding info to Danielle, etc., that I just have to decide who is the least wrong in any given situation, being that they're all three pretty much always wrong.

I still don't understand exactly where the rift began, even though I have seen every single episode of this show.  The only explanation we were ever given was that after Melissa and Joe got married, Teresa and Melissa "got competitive."  Over what, is a question I'm too frightened to ask.  But, filling in the blanks, it really does seem like Teresa resents Melissa's existence for having the audacity to be someone that Teresa didn't hand-pick, and I will always think she can fuck all the way off with that one.  One of Teresa's beefs with Melissa is that they were at Christmas with Teresa's parents, and Joe got a call from his ex-girlfriend and Melissa stormed out and Teresa took offense on behalf of her parents.  This is the only place where I'm 100% on Melissa's side.  She's allowed to set her own boundaries with her significant other, and if there was a rule not to have contact with exes, Melissa is entitled to her reaction and Teresa doesn't get to say a fucking word, in my book.

So, I hate them, they're here, I'll watch, they interest me, I think they're all hypocrites, and maybe that's why I don't mind Jen and Jackie as much.  I didn't even mind Amber.  The organic friendships and conflicts that arise between strangers and friends-of-friends just makes so much more sense to me than an extended family who is about two degrees away from incest, whose collective IQ is about the same as a box of hair, who is now bringing another generation into the conflict, because one of the adults is in jail. 🙇‍♀️🙋‍♀️

I totally agree with everything you said, except I don't think that Melissa owes anything to Tre for getting her the job on RH, or because Tre's presence make the producers interested despite Mel being super thirsty. That said, once Mel got on the show, it's up to Mel to make or break her viability. I find her super boring and I do think that without Tre on the show, Mel would have been long gone many seasons ago. But I don't think she owes Tre anything. I think there were years of bad karma between the tow of them that pre-dated the show and I'm sure they are both responsible. I can just imagine how fucked up their relationship is now, after being on the show. I for one, would be just fine if TPTB axed Mel. As much as Tre is intellectually challenged and has more than a trunk full of baggage, she is the central draw of the show (although Jenn is trying the catch up). It's like driving down the road and seeing a car accident, you just can't look away

[Hockey Addict]

Gia might be smart but IMO she has come off as a little know it all trying to be Tre's mouthpiece. 

[Higgins]

8 hours ago, Hockey Addict said:

Gia might be smart but IMO she has come off as a little know it all trying to be Tre's mouthpiece. 

She appears "smart" considering her adult family members. She's of average intelligence which is progress considering....

[Kiki777]

On 11/7/2019 at 1:35 PM, Marley said:

Also I’m sorry it’s rude but idc cause she’s a judgemental birch but Jennifer is really unfortunate looking

Total agreement.  It’s hard to describe but she has a sort of masculine fullness to the cheeks.  Like Fred Flintstone.

[walnutqueen]

33 minutes ago, Higgins said:

She appears "smart" considering her adult family members. She's of average intelligence which is progress considering....

The bar is set lower than Teresa's hairline.

[Midnight Cheese]

I hope you are all confident that I know the definition of “stalker,” but still: in terms of the fundamental dynamic Jackie introduces, she’s just a creepy, pathetic Staub. 

Jackie voluntarily decided she’s an exurban Nora Ephron so everything’s copy, including her tragic eating disorder that she’s making with quavering jawline bravery a two-season storyline. And she’ll top Tre’s stupidity in terms of Tre’s envy and hatred of Melissa by....hating her own biological sister and trying to humiliate her! Yay, Jackie! And she’s definitely flexing that Smart Housewife (errrrm okay) muscle by peacing out on a play date because she couldn’t handle freaking Jennifer. I mean, okay. 

She isn’t better than anyone and I cannot with someone who is almost visibly peeing herself as she pretends she’s down for a confrontation. Nor can I stand a woman who put her party look together.

Tre can be awful most of the time. And Jackie seems pretty facking pressed over her. So the obvious conclusion is yay Jackie! She’ll bring the show to the kind of class demonstrated by Easter Island head Jacqueline and the ham game moron Manzos!

I hate a Housewife who thinks she’s better than anyone, and who uses her own family against their will. I hate Teresa but I hate Jackie and her inaccurate high self-regard way more. She’s an arrogant, pity-seeking, pathetic ugly pig. Wait, that’s mean to pigs. She’s a totally Jersey Jackie, much like the Easter Island statue shouldabeenhernamesake.

Jackie and Melissa think, we are smarter than Tre! We haven’t been exposed as fraudsters (though, let’s see where Melissa’s signature has been on certain loan applications...) They are more pissed than a screamingly incoherent Teresa in an ugly fur that their pathetic little columns, “hot fashion boutiques,” marital advice books and storylines are limp and uninteresting. And that shit is on them and them alone. They scratched their way to this greasy platform and haven’t made significant scratch off of it. Their contempt is for Teresa but also for the viewers, original and remaining. It’s illogical and no fair! kinds of self-victimization with those two. Teresa Teresa Teresa!

Edited November 11, 2019 by Midnight Cheese

[Mr. Miner]

On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 6:26 PM, Gigi43 said:

Last season he complained to his son that he sees him when his wife is gone right in front of Joe and Melissa's kids. He bitched them out at Easter in front of all the kids and puts his gripes about Joe and Melissa on Gia, as does Teresa.

When Joe does go visit, all the old grump does is complain about how you never visit. You also have to hear your POS sister complain that you never help with daddy. Why in the hell would you want to go over there?

Edited November 11, 2019 by Mr. Minor

[ZaldamoWilder]

@Midnight Cheese.  I'm sorry. 

On 11/8/2019 at 5:35 PM, zengirl1215 said:

Rutgers University (New Brunswick) is a good school and not the easiest to get into. I know kids who weren't accepted there. Though it's a huge school with tons of undergraduates, one must score at least a 1250 on their SAT's and hold a 3.6-4.0 GPA in high school to get accepted. So, yes Gia chose to stay closer to home but it's not like she picked a crappy school.

Awww.  I got the feels.  RU is lil Wilder's school.  I asked her on our FaceTime call if she'd seen Gia Guidice.  Now it is legit a huge campus but this kid and popularity are like  

anyway, she goes who?  I say Gia Guidice, she's the table flipper's daughter from RHONJ, she should be a freshman.   She said ma.  First of all, a freshman?  Second of all there are 36000 of us.  Third of all....I said but but but, wait before 3rd of all, I thought you'dve run into each other because she's kinda famo....I stopped talking because she gave me this look here

and said mom please.  I'm famous.  Lol.  Shittalkery is hereditary, who knew?

On 11/8/2019 at 7:07 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

OMG, I am dead at that characterization. 

This is the reason why I can't quit this franchise:  there are so many contours in the triangle between Teresa, Melissa and JoeGo, that I don't know if I'll ever tire of analyzing it.  They're all always so wrong that it's hard to find merit in any of their positions, but it's sometimes amusing to try.

Here I go:  I've been saying this a lot on the boards lately, but I believe in ignoring people who you don't like.  I have a sister-in-law that I cannot stand.  She's not a bad person, and we never had a sprinkle cookie-pignoli cookie standoff, but I just dont want to see her and she's not in my life.  I don't suffer and I don't miss her. So...

These people don't need to be in each other's lives.  Teresa pre-existed Melissa on the show, and I always keep that in mind.  Dina and Caroline came on together, so they had parity.  Melissa wouldn't have been cast if not for Teresa, so does Melissa owe Teresa a little something?  I dunno.  But without Teresa, Melissa would be sitting in the ugly doll house with no furniture, fending off Joe's "poison" and thanking Jesus for Versace.  

Melissa owes her presence on this show to Teresa IMO and I'l say why:  Teresa got big by flipping a table, yes, not exactly solving cold fusion, but every once in awhile when Melissa gets a bee in her bonnet and throws a glass and says "that fucking girl," it goes over like a lead balloon.  She is boring and is getting more so.  When was the last time she had a storyline?  She doesn't own that store--she owns a piece of it, I think 10%--and she is a liar who is unrepentant.  I can't get over that she lied about the nose job, looked into the camera and said it was contour makeup, and only admitted it when she was outed by Jacq.

Teresa is an unrepentant liar too, but I think if she were confronted with the truth, she would hang her mouth open, blink rapidly, do hand gestures, but, eventually she will say, "I didn't want to admit it because it looked bad."  Melissa isn't even capable of that, even though she's smarter.  So, while I hate Teresa, I think Melissa is worse, and I can't wait for the government to catch up with the Gorgas.

Then there's Joe.  I actuallly think he's the worst of all.  First of all, it bothers the fuck out of me that he gets TH's.  He is always advocating manhood, masculinity, cleaning is for girls, etc., but I think he's just a little bitch.  A real man isn't a constant mediator over the course of decades because he's afraid of alienating people.  A real man, like a real woman, will take stock of a situation, and realize what is right and wrong, and I think Teresa did enough wrong here for Joe to once and for all throw his support behind his wife and refuse to entertain the situation further.  He really enables the fighting and the backstabbing by trying to remain "neutral," when the irony is that Teresa would back down big time if he just stayed steadfast and sided with his wife.

So, I don't even think Melissa and Teresa should interact.  They don't like each other.  If they need to be together for family gatherings, which I don't even really get, but, kids, whatever--if they're together, they should just be cordial:  "hi, please pass the stringbeans, bye."  No need to compliment each other's outfits or any of that bullshit.  That's fakery, not cordial.  The fact that they're on a reality show together and have this constant drama just makes me really dislike them intensely.  Even if they found themselves in a Mexican standoff where neither one was willing to leave the show, they should just be cordial while filming.  They should pay each other no mind; otherwise they're selling out their families for a paycheck.  What does that say about them?

But--or should I say "but you know whaa"--if they are going to continue this charade of being allies, then Melissa has a duty to shut down cheating rumors and if a man comes on TV to say Melissa worked at a gentleman's club, Teresa has a duty to say, "I don't know anything about that, but I'm not interested.  By the way, why are you talking to me?"  So, yeah, I guess upon further evaluation, Teresa was wrong.

I just feel like this is all played out against such a cynical back story, beginning with JoeGo's jealousy of JoeGiu's relationship with his father and turning his son's baptism into a brawl, Melissa feeding info to Danielle, etc., that I just have to decide who is the least wrong in any given situation, being that they're all three pretty much always wrong.

I still don't understand exactly where the rift began, even though I have seen every single episode of this show.  The only explanation we were ever given was that after Melissa and Joe got married, Teresa and Melissa "got competitive."  Over what, is a question I'm too frightened to ask.  But, filling in the blanks, it really does seem like Teresa resents Melissa's existence for having the audacity to be someone that Teresa didn't hand-pick, and I will always think she can fuck all the way off with that one.  One of Teresa's beefs with Melissa is that they were at Christmas with Teresa's parents, and Joe got a call from his ex-girlfriend and Melissa stormed out and Teresa took offense on behalf of her parents.  This is the only place where I'm 100% on Melissa's side.  She's allowed to set her own boundaries with her significant other, and if there was a rule not to have contact with exes, Melissa is entitled to her reaction and Teresa doesn't get to say a fucking word, in my book.

So, I hate them, they're here, I'll watch, they interest me, I think they're all hypocrites, and maybe that's why I don't mind Jen and Jackie as much.  I didn't even mind Amber.  The organic friendships and conflicts that arise between strangers and friends-of-friends just makes so much more sense to me than an extended family who is about two degrees away from incest, whose collective IQ is about the same as a box of hair, who is now bringing another generation into the conflict, because one of the adults is in jail. 🙇‍♀️🙋‍♀️

So, y'own remember the muffucah that was sprinkle cookies?   Girl you know good n' hell well cordiality's not possible with these two.   They're either frenemies until they bust a cheekbone or thought bubbling: I would stomp this bish out but for the fact that my husband/brother would never forgive me

no, whaaa?

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, Mr. Minor said:

Why in the hell would you want to go over there?

Because I need another quavery voice : "YOU'RE MY FATHER!!!" and lowlife take down at a baby christening???

ETA - have I told you lately how much I lurve you, ZeeDub?!?!?

Edited November 11, 2019 by walnutqueen

[zengirl1215]

26 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Awww.  I got the feels.  RU is lil Wilder's school.  I asked her on our FaceTime call if she'd seen Gia Guidice.  Now it is legit a huge campus but this kid and popularity are like  

anyway, she goes who?  I say Gia Guidice, she's the table flipper's daughter from RHONJ, she should be a freshman.   She said ma.  First of all, a freshman?  Second of all there are 36000 of us.  Third of all....I said but but but, wait before 3rd of all, I thought you'dve run into each other because she's kinda famo....I stopped talking because she gave me this look here

and said mom please.  I'm famous.  Lol.  Shittalkery is hereditary, who knew?

LMAO that's too funny!!! And love your daughter's attitude. What is she majoring in? My son was there last year. I think Gia in the same residence hall that he stayed in.  He only did one year because though he did fine and loved the school, he's undecided on what he wants to do career wise. And felt just going to a 4-year school and taking classes without any type of direction was wasting money. He's very laid back and self-aware but we were SHOCKED!!! He's at a community college right now, but he can go back to Rutgers if he chooses (he took a leave of absence) or go to a different school. We shall see, he's got to figure it out. Anyway, I digress. He just visited recently to hang with some of his friends up there and I was the same way, I said, "did you see Gia?" and he had no clue who the hell I was talking about. LOL

His fave place to eat is RU Hungry...does your daughter get sandwiches there? 

Edited November 11, 2019 by zengirl1215

[Hiyo]

Quote

Because I need another quavery voice : "YOU'RE MY FATHER!!!" and lowlife take down at a baby christening???

Only if someone else is shouting out "You son of a bitches!"

Edited November 11, 2019 by Hiyo

[ZaldamoWilder]

9 minutes ago, zengirl1215 said:

LMAO that's too funny!!! And love your daughter's attitude. What is she majoring in? My son was there last year. I think Gia in the same residence hall (Frelinghuysen) that he stayed in.  He only did one year because though he did fine and loved the school, he's undecided on what he wants to do career wise. And felt just going to a 4-year school and taking classes without any type of direction was wasting money. He's very laid back and self-aware but we were SHOCKED!!! He's at a community college right now, but he can go back to Rutgers if he chooses (he took a leave of absence) or go to a different school. We shall see, he's got to figure it out. Anyway, I digress. He just visited recently to hang with some of his friends up there and I was the same way, I said, "did you see Gia?" and he had no clue who the hell I was talking about. LOL

His fave place to eat is RU Hungry...does your daughter get sandwiches there? 

Thanks girl lol.  That's a helluva move on his part. I wanna give your baby a high five for that.  Sometimes I think there's too much pressure on these children to have to figure out or know for sure what they want to spend the next 60 years doing.   1/2 of em ain't figured out the washing machine.    She's majoring in spending my coins.   Ole expensive ass.  Lol.   We live 27 minutes from school but she wanted to board (she's on cook-doug) I think the name of the dorm is debit/credit or checking, wunna those.  😄    Criminal Justice/Social Work.  She wants to be a lawyer.  In African families, that is heard as SCOTUS lol.   

You bout to trigger me.  What she needs to get there is a damn job.  RU Hungry accounts for approximately 1/3 of my disposable income.

@walnutqueen lol!

[walnutqueen]

Ok, but I'll be Joey today if you'll be Chandler tomorrow.

[ZaldamoWilder]

1 minute ago, walnutqueen said:

Ok, but I'll be Joey today if you'll be Chandler tomorrow.

could I be any more Chandlerish?

[biakbiak]

13 hours ago, Hockey Addict said:

Gia might be smart but IMO she has come off as a little know it all trying to be Tre's mouthpiece. 

I actually don’t think she was trying to be Teresa’s mouthpiece in this conversation at least, she sounded super naive and not understanding the reality of the situation from demanding he stay in ICE custody to continue to have a relationship with her to assuming that he was going to win his appeal and be there for her sisters. Teresa is obviously not smart but she did try and cut in and say that he Could very well lose the appeal and might not be there for her sisters. 

[BrindaWalsh]

It seems like Gia visited and was accepted by a lot of the popular schools in the area for those students who are carrying around a high B+ GPA and decent SAT scores, probably a couple of honors/AP courses, etc.  She could have very easily chosen Rutgers without Joe going to prison and it would have been a perfectly sound academic choice for her.  Yes, she's not as far away from home to keep Tre from popping up on her doorstep whenever she wants to, but I don't get the impression that's what's happening.  

Speaking of Gia, OMG I wanted to smack her.  Are all 18 year olds that "know it all" and irritating?  That Gia thinks that somehow she's the one that's been impacted the most by all of this is incredibly self-centered, insensitive, and egotistical.  How about sweet little Audriana whose memories of her father when she will get older will be him in prison and most likely in Italy, as opposed to the childhood of memories that Gia has, for example?  Joe has been gone for 3 years.  He has missed milestones that are big deals for all of the girls.  Yes, Gia wanted him there for her high school graduation.  I'm sure Gabriella wanted him there for her middle school graduation or her drivers test or some such thing.  I hate people who think that their grief and struggles are somehow greater and more deserving of sympathy than others who are impacted by the exact same things.  Shut up, Gia.  

I really want to like Jackie.  I mean, I really do.  She's clearly the one on the show with a legitimate brain.  Her 4 kids seems normal enough. Her husband seems like a decent person who isn't breaking the law in his day to day life.  She's boring, but whatever, not more boring than Dolores.  I don't like her mean-girl-you-can't-sit-with-us vibe she puts out there, but the rest of them probably do the same, except perhaps for Dolores.  But I noticed two things.  One is very shallow and that's about the obvious "season 2" work done (happens to most reality people!).  I know she says she got lips, but something else is going on there, it looked like she was having trouble moving her face.  Or perhaps the makeup was that caked on.  Or maybe it is something with her eyes.  But the other thing I noticed was how clearly calculating she became and the total hypocrisy.  Jackie is just as bad as the rest of these people.  For example, if she was that upset about the video, and truly felt like she and Jennifer had gotten close, then call her and talk about it.  Don't save it for the party and the cameras.  Another example, if you think that accusing somebody of infidelity over wine at the dinner table with two close friends while the cameras role is somehow acceptable behavior and not as sleazy and trashy as Jen in that video, try again.  Just because you're less "expressive" about it than Jennifer doesn't make it innocent.  Just ask Melissa how she feels about such statements.  And 3rd, calling Jennifer Teresa's soldier only proves that she's watched the show more closely than she admits and doesn't know her audience - nobody wants to revisit the "Teresa's army trying to bring us down!" bullshit of a few years ago.  

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

could I be any more Chandlerish?

Possibly not, but you have given me more hours of delightful entertainment than Keith Morrison's son-in-law.

AND, you get my old jaded references.  Betchya'd also help ole ladies cross the street (no shade intended).

[JAYJAY1979]

Delores/Frank/and her boyfriend... an interesting combo.. yet if it works for them.. more power to them.  

Teresa and Joe still don't get the damage their selfishness has done to their 4 girls.

I could watch a show with all of them in their own lives with little to no interaction and be a happy camper :)

Edited November 12, 2019 by JAYJAY1979

[zengirl1215]

21 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Thanks girl lol.  That's a helluva move on his part. I wanna give your baby a high five for that.  Sometimes I think there's too much pressure on these children to have to figure out or know for sure what they want to spend the next 60 years doing.   1/2 of em ain't figured out the washing machine.    She's majoring in spending my coins.   Ole expensive ass.  Lol.   We live 27 minutes from school but she wanted to board (she's on cook-doug) I think the name of the dorm is debit/credit or checking, wunna those.  😄    Criminal Justice/Social Work.  She wants to be a lawyer.  In African families, that is heard as SCOTUS lol.   

You bout to trigger me.  What she needs to get there is a damn job.  RU Hungry accounts for approximately 1/3 of my disposable income.

@walnutqueen lol!

OMG I love you!!! You are spot on...it's crazy how is it for kids these days. And how damn expensive school is. UGH!!!! That's cool that you're close to Rutgers but that she still wanted to stay there....although the housing isn't cheap and the bulk of the cost. We are in South Jersey and about 45 minutes down the turnpike. He rarely came home but when he did and we had to trek him back up...that EXIT 9 was ridiculous. I swear the person who designed it is laughing his/her ass off watching everyone trying to drive that crap everyday! Anyway, that's fabulous about your daughter wanting to be a lawyer. And studying criminal justice. KUDOS! My son excels in math (didn't get that from me) and we always thought he'd go into engineering but seems to be swayed more towards the financial route. But is still undecided. He likes to dabble in stocks on his own time but as a career...who knows. Everyone tells us that he'll figure it out. He is working while going to school and has stayed on a good path. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

That's so funny about her eating at RU Hungry a lot! Those sandwiches sound insane. LOL! 

[esco1822]

On 11/8/2019 at 5:35 PM, zengirl1215 said:

Rutgers University (New Brunswick) is a good school and not the easiest to get into. I know kids who weren't accepted there. Though it's a huge school with tons of undergraduates, one must score at least a 1250 on their SAT's and hold a 3.6-4.0 GPA in high school to get accepted. So, yes Gia chose to stay closer to home but it's not like she picked a crappy school.

On another note...I absolutely loathe Jennifer. When she speaks, it's pure nails on a chalkboard. And her comment about being a "trophy wife" was comical. The delusion is HUGE with this one! 

Rutgers is decidedly easier to get into in state than it is out of state. At least it was when I went there. 

On 11/11/2019 at 10:12 AM, zengirl1215 said:

LMAO that's too funny!!! And love your daughter's attitude. What is she majoring in? My son was there last year. I think Gia in the same residence hall that he stayed in.  He only did one year because though he did fine and loved the school, he's undecided on what he wants to do career wise. And felt just going to a 4-year school and taking classes without any type of direction was wasting money. He's very laid back and self-aware but we were SHOCKED!!! He's at a community college right now, but he can go back to Rutgers if he chooses (he took a leave of absence) or go to a different school. We shall see, he's got to figure it out. Anyway, I digress. He just visited recently to hang with some of his friends up there and I was the same way, I said, "did you see Gia?" and he had no clue who the hell I was talking about. LOL

His fave place to eat is RU Hungry...does your daughter get sandwiches there? 

RU HUNGRY!!! It used to be a Grease Truck (RIP). Now I'll be jonesing for a Fat Darrell all day. I really loved my 4 years there. 

[mostlylurking]

On 11/11/2019 at 1:03 PM, BrindaWalsh said:

Are all 18 year olds that "know it all" and irritating? 

I think most of them are.  I probably was although I'd like to think not.  I think Gia has a good head on her shoulders.  She's more mature than most of her relatives.  She is a brat but I think that has more to do with her being a teenager who thinks she knows everything.  I went to Rutgers a million years ago.  I learned while I was there that while people from Jersey (like me) think Rutgers is just ok and not a big deal, people from out of state think pretty highly of Rutgers and it is actually a very good school.

[BrindaWalsh]

Back when I was in high school, the same thing applied.   For instate it was fine.  It had a stronger out of state reputation.  However, I think that's changed and it's gotten more competitive instate.  It used to be that Trenton State (now TCNJ was considered the best and most competitive of the state schools.  I think it all goes to Rutgers now, and if you look at overall college rankings, it comes in #2 after Princeton (yes, there's a big gap).  

But my point about Gia staying and choosing Rutgers to be close to home in case her father gets out being pure convenience is me saying that I don't think she sacrificed her education for the sake of staying in NJ.  She could have just as easily been at Rutgers if Juicy wasn't in jail.  When comparing it to Quinnipiac and Bama, it's the stronger of the three.  I can't remember which other schools she applied to, those two stand out. 

It's not like Victoria turning down UMD for Caldwell (which I actually took as code to mean she didn't get in to UMD or that mommy and daddy wouldn't let her move away), or Gia turning down Bama and Quinnipiac and going to CCM.  There's nothing wrong with Caldwell or with a community college system, but they are different.  

[ZaldamoWilder]

22 hours ago, esco1822 said:

RU HUNGRY!!! It used to be a Grease Truck (RIP). Now I'll be jonesing for a Fat Darrell all day. I really loved my 4 years there. 

Lol!  Yeah they stepped their game up, but there's still a truck (it's on cook-doug).  My fave is a Fat Fellatio, no mustard.   

[zengirl1215]

On 11/12/2019 at 3:06 PM, BrindaWalsh said:

Back when I was in high school, the same thing applied.   For instate it was fine.  It had a stronger out of state reputation.  However, I think that's changed and it's gotten more competitive instate.  It used to be that Trenton State (now TCNJ was considered the best and most competitive of the state schools.  I think it all goes to Rutgers now, and if you look at overall college rankings, it comes in #2 after Princeton (yes, there's a big gap).  

But my point about Gia staying and choosing Rutgers to be close to home in case her father gets out being pure convenience is me saying that I don't think she sacrificed her education for the sake of staying in NJ.  She could have just as easily been at Rutgers if Juicy wasn't in jail.  When comparing it to Quinnipiac and Bama, it's the stronger of the three.  I can't remember which other schools she applied to, those two stand out. 

Gotcha! It's sad a situation all-around for those kids. The fact Gia did well in high school in spite of all the crap going on the past few years is wonderful. It couldn't have been easy for her or any of the girls living in a fishbowl. I'm sure they've all had to defend their parents' bad decisions over and over. So the fact Gia was able to get into Rutgers and most likely the other schools she applied to, I give her props for that. You are right...Rutgers has definitely gone up in rankings. The Division III Rutgers-Camden (which is MUCH smaller) is easier to get into. I believe they accept a lower SAT score of 1,000-1,100. But the Division I New Brunswick and State university is much more competitive. Plus they have a large amount of international students. 

[ladle]

I kind of want to watch a spin-off show where Gia and crazy-Kelly's daughter Jolie from RHOOC get an apartment together and make reasonable life decisions.  

[Yours Truly]

On 11/7/2019 at 2:43 PM, thesupremediva1 said:

It is highly unlikely that one can be as thin as Jackie (or Bethenny or Jules or Carole or Brandi) and eat much if anything at all. There's already a pathology at work there. Mel has a banging figure I know she works hard for but it's also clear she eats three meals a day. 

And Jackie is noticeably nipped and tucked in the face and looking more drawn than ever. It's common after a first season on camera. But I, as a viewer, do not want to buy into this fantasy that it's fine to start out a weight loss journey with an eating disorder as long as it eventually gets under control and just as long as you end up thin. It's not something we should be peddling to the general public. 

Makes me think of Teddy on BH. I've never thought of her as a success story. She worked her obsessive controlling nature into a "profession". I don't think that just because she's harnessed an unhealthy relationship with food into another obsessive trait and now profits off of it that she's some role model. I think, to me it's the fear and anxiety of gaining the weight that tells me your are still in an unhealthy place. Teddy created a whole lifestyle, profession around a way to not gain the weight back. Just because people are successful in channeling their terror and toxic perspective on superficial matters towards a more socially "acceptable" direction doesn't mean they are in a better place than they were before. 

I think the biggest criteria of truly being in a healthy place is finding peace over the matter. Sure you may still struggle with portions of it but as long as it's not dictating huge factors in your life then that's when I think you've gotten a handle on your issue.  Seeing these women i.e. Jackie still obsessed with appearance, and using artificial means to maintain a particular look just hits home just how okay that really aren't.

[FozzyBear]

I actually thought Jen made a pretty reasonable point to Jackie. I don’t understand why Jackie is so upset about this either.