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maraleia

By maraleia
in Doctor Who

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John Potts
John Potts

I'm outraged. Another human? When are we going to have an actual Gallifreyan playing The Doctor? It's political correctness gone mad!

Anduin
Anduin

Bernard Cribbins, Wilfred Mott, has passed away. :(

Sakura12
Sakura12

Jodie was never the problem for me, I've liked her Doctor. It was the writing that was hit or miss. That's too bad, I would've liked to see Jodie work with a different showrunner. 

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Anduin

Anduin

3 hours ago, DanaK said:

The immersive experience  “Doctor Who: Time Fracture” will feature all the Doctors in one storyline https://www.doctorwho.tv/news/?article=the-doctors-join-immersive-west-end-show-time-fracture&fbclid=IwAR3yyKsgNseEyaj9lSsX1afawPJKK8v0RxFGLw5Bzm_LNoYTTcxIiEFwbt4

What a revolutionary idea. All the Doctors unite to face some great big threat. How do they come up with such an amazing concept?

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DanaK

DanaK

16 minutes ago, Anduin said:

What a revolutionary idea. All the Doctors unite to face some great big threat. How do they come up with such an amazing concept?

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not lol

It's too bad that some of the Doctors will be voiced by voice actors and not the original actors (like Chris E, Peter C, and Matt S) but at least they are including Jo Martin as the Fugitive Doctor and Jodie as the current Doctor

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HauntedBathroom

HauntedBathroom

6 hours ago, DanaK said:

It's too bad that some of the Doctors will be voiced by voice actors and not the original actors (like Chris E, Peter C, and Matt S) but at least they are including Jo Martin as the Fugitive Doctor and Jodie as the current Doctor

The absense of Real Doctor's, but the presence of Jo Martin, puts me off. Until Chibnall can get around to giving her a backstory, placing her in the order of other Doctor, and giving her intro and exit regeneration scenes, she's just some bullshit made up by the Master.

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cambridgeguy

cambridgeguy

Someone who won't be showing up is John Barrowman.  He's also been dropped from a Torchwood audio adventure that would have included David Tenant.  This is obviously due to the Noel Clarke stuff reminding everyone of the creepy and idiotic stuff he did when he was with the show.

That being said, unless there's more to come this is coming across like what happened to James Gunn.  Barrowman was reprimanded, apologized, has apparently done nothing like that since, and everyone was totally fine with it until now.

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JustHereForFood

JustHereForFood

37 minutes ago, DanaK said:
It’s not quite obvious, but the first is a 13th Doctor adventure. Both seem to be geared at younger readers. Both are available on Amazon US and UK, in paperback and Kindle

Thank's for the info. I don't read any of the tie-in material, but it's cool that there will be a story with 13th Doctor and Missy. I wonder if we could get them together on TV at some point.

JustHereForFood

JustHereForFood

I just finished watching RTD's new series It's A Sin and episode 4 has a bit of a Doctor Who cameo. It takes place in the 80's and the main character is an actor, so he gets a small part in a Doctor Who episode featuring Daleks. 

This article mentions the inspiration behind the cameo, which came from an actor RTD met in the past (spoilers for all episodes of It's A Sin included):

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/a35347177/its-a-sin-doctor-who-crossover-scene/

 

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DanaK

DanaK

22 minutes ago, Megras said:

Jodie & Chris leaving:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-57940451

and in certain sections of the fandom there was much rejoicing. I thinks its a shame to see Jodie go as I enjoyed her a lot.

We had a heads up with the Mirror article so I'm not shocked, but I am sad to see Jodie go as I've really liked her era so far

So it's 6 episodes for Series 13 + 1 special on New Year's Day (or 7 episodes for Series 13, with the NYD special being either a related special or the season finale for S13; it's not clear at this point). Then a special in the Spring and another special (presumably 13's regeneration) in the Fall/Autumn

DanaK

DanaK

Note that the special in the Fall/Autumn of 2022 will be feature length and it will be part of the BBC's 100th anniversary celebrations

The BBC's Doctor Who website also did an article https://www.doctorwho.tv/news/?article=jodie-whittaker-chris-chibnall-leave-doctor-who#_

Interesting that Chibnall says he and Jodie made a "3 seasons and done" pact

ElleryAnne

ElleryAnne

I wish all the best for whatever JW does next - she wasn't my favorite doctor but I fault the writing and mainly Chibnall for that, because I think she did the best she could with the material she was given. 

I'm happy Chibnall is going, though.  I really wanted to like the past couple of seasons of the show, but there was just too much to dislike in what he brought to it, and it overshadowed the things that were good. 

I'm still hoping the upcoming season is good, though, as well as the subsequent specials.  It would be nice if they can go out on a high note.

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DoctorAtomic

DoctorAtomic

1 hour ago, Megras said:

and in certain sections of the fandom there was much rejoicing.

The worst showrunner of Doctor Who is the current showrunner. I enjoyed this latest iteration of the show, and I'm sure I'll enjoy their remaining shows. And, I'm sure I'll enjoy the next group too. (I want Jenny and Vastra to meet Thirteen. There's still time!)

It seems like 3 years is about average for the modern era anyway. 

I wonder if they're going to continue with Fourteen being a lady or maybe a person of color, who also could be a lady. 

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DanaK

DanaK

11 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

The worst showrunner of Doctor Who is the current showrunner. I enjoyed this latest iteration of the show, and I'm sure I'll enjoy their remaining shows. And, I'm sure I'll enjoy the next group too. (I want Jenny and Vastra to meet Thirteen. There's still time!)

It seems like 3 years is about average for the modern era anyway. 

I wonder if they're going to continue with Fourteen being a lady or maybe a person of color, who also could be a lady. 

My guess for the next Doctor is a person of color, male or female

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Llywela

Llywela

(edited)
36 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

The worst showrunner of Doctor Who is the current showrunner.

Always. 😉😄 

I prefer Chibnall's stripped down style over the overwrought Moffat era, but I have found his showrunning style to be rather...lightweight, shall we say. He's a character writer at heart, and his style is an odd fit for Doctor Who. He's been aiming for the whimsy and the space opera and the sci fi spectacle Doctor Who fans have come to expect, but that's not really where his interest lies, as a writer, and as a result his work has struggled to find real balance and direction.

It'll be interesting to see who they choose next! The last three showrunners all belong to that generation that grew up watching the show as children in the 70s and then remained (highly critical) fans as young adults in the 80s and drove fandom through the wilderness era of the 90s, rooted in a particular era both of the show and the fandom. I'd like to see them move away from that now to a head writer who doesn't bring that same baggage to the table.

Edited by Llywela
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DanaK

DanaK

Some wonderful words from Jodie from the Doctor Who BBC page https://www.doctorwho.tv/news/?article=jodie-whittaker-chris-chibnall-leave-doctor-who#_

Quote

“In 2017 I opened my glorious gift box of size 13 shoes. I could not have guessed the brilliant adventures, worlds and wonders I was to see in them. My heart is so full of love for this show, for the team who make it, for the fans who watch it and for what it has brought to my life. And I cannot thank Chris enough for entrusting me with his incredible stories. We knew that we wanted to ride this wave side by side, and pass on the baton together. So here we are, weeks away from wrapping on the best job I have ever had. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to express what this role has given me. I will carry the Doctor and the lessons I’ve learnt forever.

“I know change can be scary and none of us know what’s out there. That’s why we keep looking. Travel Hopefully. The Universe will surprise you. Constantly.”

 

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Lantern7

Lantern7

(edited)

Man. Once again, we won’t have a modern Doctor lasting longer than three seasons. More importantly, if there’s a 60th Anniversary special, a rookie would be playing the Doctor. That would hurt if past Doctors stop in to overshadow that person.

ETA: I forgot to add, “Great, another regeneration on Christmas,” but I think that’ll always been the case. Tradition! Waiting for the Queen to end her yearly speech with, “The BBC has shown me tonight’s episode in advance, and it is TIGHT!”

Edited by Lantern7
JustHereForFood

JustHereForFood

3 hours ago, Megras said:

Jodie & Chris leaving:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-57940451

and in certain sections of the fandom there was much rejoicing. I thinks its a shame to see Jodie go as I enjoyed her a lot.

I don't call those people part of the fandom.

3 hours ago, Llywela said:

Me too. Actually, every Doctor from Matt Smith onward I've wished to see written for by a different showrunner!

Same with me. 

I am quite sad from this. I don't think I would mind that much if all the seasons haven't already been shorter than before, and now with Covid the last one is even shorter. I can't really compare this with previos actors' 3 seasons + specials.

As for the new showrunner, I have no idea who it could be. If it was up to me, I would like  Neil Gaiman, even if only for one season, but I can only wish. I don't think there is any of the previous writers that is more memorable than others and I don't have any idea about inner workings of BBC, so I will have to be surprised I guess. Does anyone have any favorites they would like?

As for the next Doctor, I have seen an idea elsewhere about someone from some Commonwealth country, not specifically UK. Would that be acceptable, or do you think they need to be from the UK?

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Llywela

Llywela

(edited)
50 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

As for the new showrunner, I have no idea who it could be. If it was up to me, I would like  Neil Gaiman, even if only for one season, but I can only wish. I don't think there is any of the previous writers that is more memorable than others and I don't have any idea about inner workings of BBC, so I will have to be surprised I guess. Does anyone have any favorites they would like?

As for the next Doctor, I have seen an idea elsewhere about someone from some Commonwealth country, not specifically UK. Would that be acceptable, or do you think they need to be from the UK?

I think it's gonna be a tough gig for whoever gets it. Doctor Who as a franchise is so old and so sprawling now, its canon so convoluted and its fandom so splintered, whoever is in charge is going to have an uphill task. And there's the 60th anniversary coming up in two years, just to add even more pressure.

At this point, it might almost be an advantage to appoint someone from 'outside' as it were, someone who hasn't been a fan for 30-40 years and therefore doesn't come with any baggage attached, someone with fresh ideas and energy and the willingness to break with the past and start afresh. But I already know that no matter who gets the job and no matter which direction they choose to go in, they will be pilloried by sections of the fandom (and press), simply for doing this instead of that.

I'd actually love to see what someone like Sally Wainwright would make of the job, but she'd never take it, too busy creating shows of her own!

(Also, my brain is tossing out possible new Doctors at a rate of knots, plus I really want to know if the companions are also leaving or staying on, because in 16 years of New Who we have only once had a companion actually overlap a regeneration and have to react to a new Doctor, and I want more overlapping!)

Edited by Llywela
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DoctorAtomic

DoctorAtomic

35 minutes ago, Llywela said:

At this point, it might almost be an advantage to appoint someone from 'outside' as it were, someone who hasn't been a fan for 30-40 years and therefore doesn't come with any baggage attached, someone with fresh ideas and energy and the willingness to break with the past and start afresh.

Invariably, anyone who is a fan has 'their' Doctor and more affinity for those stories at the time, whether Nine, Three, or Six. It might be a good idea to have someone outside of that who will just produce a good action-adventure drama series about a 2000 year old time-space traveling know it all. Don't ignore the past, but I don't know if we still need to delve into the Doctor's origins. In fact, that might be a good turn. Given what Thirteen knows about their origins now, they may want to regenerate into a more live in the moment figure. 

That was kind of the gist of Nine to Ten in a way, but I thought Ten tended (ha) to get too fill of himself and pompous. 

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libgirl2

libgirl2

She was not my favorite Doctor and I don't know if it was her or Chibnall. I have enjoyed Jodie in everything else I have seen her in. And yes, I am old school preferring a male Doctor but I was more than willing to give her a chance. I never felt her heart was in it. Again, her or the writing. I didn't care much for the "fam" and I didn't not care for the Timeless Child. 

Honestly, Jo Martin in her one episode felt more Doctor than Jodie did. Something about her bearing that I reminded me of the First.  That said, I think we will probably see a male play the roll again and I think it will be a person of color. 

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Llywela

Llywela

8 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Didn’t we have 2? Rose and Clara? Three if you count River…

I'd forgotten Rose! 😳 River not included because she was never a full time companion. She met and adventured with different Doctors but did not watch them going through the regeneration process, didn't have to adjust to living her daily life (aboard the TARDIS) with a whole new version of the same person.

I still want to see a companion go through the regeneration again, because it adds a note of continuity to the show (and would be interesting to see them written by a different showrunner).

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Maren

Maren

(edited)
9 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

She was not my favorite Doctor and I don't know if it was her or Chibnall. I have enjoyed Jodie in everything else I have seen her in. And yes, I am old school preferring a male Doctor but I was more than willing to give her a chance. I never felt her heart was in it. Again, her or the writing. I didn't care much for the "fam" and I didn't not care for the Timeless Child. 

Honestly, Jo Martin in her one episode felt more Doctor than Jodie did. Something about her bearing that I reminded me of the First.  That said, I think we will probably see a male play the roll again and I think it will be a person of color. 

I agree. I preferred the Doctor as a man - and it had nothing to do with misogyny, it's just what I knew having grown up watching since Five and Four on PBS when I was a kid - but a female Doctor could have worked. But I have not enjoyed Jodie as the Doctor, at all. It was the writing, certainly (when they announced Chibnall as the head runner I went back through his DW episodes and none of them were ones I enjoyed, and he honestly lived way down to my fears with his seasons), but it was also her. She was too lightweight, too silly and frivolous, with her "fam" and flightiness. She was never able to channel the hyper craziness that masked this deep well of rage and fire that all of the new boot Doctors were able to (for me). She just didn't have the strength of presence to own the screen as the Doctor, to make me believe that the Doctor was the smartest person in the room, totally in control, even when it seemed like she really wasn't. I really wish they could have cast someone like Michelle Gomez, who so wonderfully took over the Master. Or that they would have cast Jo Martin to begin with, who IMO was the best thing about this Chibnall era (though I HATE the Timeless Child storyline. Hate it.). She did so much with so little and had such presence on screen, which is what the Doctor should have IMO.

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed they hire a great writer as showrunner. I fear though that all of the potentially good DW writers who might have taken over before are gone now. I liked Jamie Mathieson, but he hasn't written since 2017 and neither has Toby Whitehouse. Mark Gatiss hasn't been around for awhile either, though his episodes were always hit and miss for me. Maybe they will hire someone outside the show. Hopefully it will be a good writer this time.

Edited by Maren
minor correction
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JustHereForFood

JustHereForFood

The only companions that were with more Doctors so far (in the New era at least) were with the same showrunner, so I guess it will be the same now, with the new showrunner bringing their own characters.

Re: Jo Martin - I liked her in interviews and I liked her character before she remembered she was the Doctor, but something about her Doctor portrayal just didn't work for me. If she somehow gets to be the next Doctor, I hope she will also get a new characterization. But oh boy, can you imagine the reaction if she had been cast instead of Jodie? It would have been so much worse and I think it still would be now, if they cast a black woman in the title role.

libgirl2

libgirl2

4 hours ago, Maren said:

I agree. I preferred the Doctor as a man - and it had nothing to do with misogyny, it's just what I knew having grown up watching since Five and Four on PBS when I was a kid - but a female Doctor could have worked. But I have not enjoyed Jodie as the Doctor, at all. It was the writing, certainly (when they announced Chibnall as the head runner I went back through his DW episodes and none of them were ones I enjoyed, and he honestly lived way down to my fears with his seasons), but it was also her. She was too lightweight, too silly and frivolous, with her "fam" and flightiness. She was never able to channel the hyper craziness that masked this deep well of rage and fire that all of the new boot Doctors were able to (for me). She just didn't have the strength of presence to own the screen as the Doctor, to make me believe that the Doctor was the smartest person in the room, totally in control, even when it seemed like she really wasn't. I really wish they could have cast someone like Michelle Gomez, who so wonderfully took over the Master. Or that they would have cast Jo Martin to begin with, who IMO was the best thing about this Chibnall era (though I HATE the Timeless Child storyline. Hate it.). She did so much with so little and had such presence on screen, which is what the Doctor should have IMO.

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed they hire a great writer as showrunner. I fear though that all of the potentially good DW writers who might have taken over before are gone now. I liked Jamie Mathieson, but he hasn't written since 2017 and neither has Toby Whitehouse. Mark Gatiss hasn't been around for awhile either, though his episodes were always hit and miss for me. Maybe they will hire someone outside the show. Hopefully it will be a good writer this time.

I grew up with the 3, 4 and 5th Doctors. I was the die hard fan back in the day when you couldn't find anything Doctor Who related anywhere. I stayed up late night on Sunday watching the show, sitting through pledge drives on PBS, just to get to see Doctor Who. So yes, the Doctor has always been male for me too. It is what I have known all this time. 

I agree, that a female could have worked but something was missing. Some commanding presence was just not there. Again, that is the way the character was written. I remember being concerned when Matt took the role. He was too young, wouldn't play the part right. He proved me wrong. He managed to play the Doctor as someone who looked young but inside was a times an old and very lonely man who had seen tragedy. I could see him meeting Susan and being a Grandfather. I never got that feel from Jodie. Again, maybe better writing and a better written Doctor could have worked out. Peter Capaldi's stories were not great, but I got his Doctor. 

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Llywela

Llywela

(edited)
53 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

The only companions that were with more Doctors so far (in the New era at least) were with the same showrunner, so I guess it will be the same now, with the new showrunner bringing their own characters.

That's kind of why I want to see a companion overlapping. Same reason I wanted to see Smith, Capaldi and Whittaker's Doctors written by someone else, too. To see what a different writer could bring to the characters! But you are probably right, it seems almost certain the companions will leave with the Doctor and showrunner, giving the newbie a clean slate to play with. I'd still rather have that note of continuity, though, if only for one season - especially with the 60th anniversary on the horizon. At this rate, we may not even get a new season in time for that! Maybe a special, at least?

34 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I agree, that a female could have worked but something was missing. Some commanding presence was just not there. Again, that is the way the character was written. I remember being concerned when Matt took the role. He was too young, wouldn't play the part right. He proved me wrong. He managed to play the Doctor as someone who looked young but inside was a times an old and very lonely man who had seen tragedy. I could see him meeting Susan and being a Grandfather. I never got that feel from Jodie. Again, maybe better writing and a better written Doctor could have worked out. Peter Capaldi's stories were not great, but I got his Doctor. 

Whittaker has definitely been let down by the writing (so was Capaldi. And Smith. But in different ways). Her Doctor has been written as extremely hesitant and unsure an awful lot of the time. She never sounds sure of herself, and one of the enduring characteristics of the Doctor has always been that they sound confident even when they aren't. And sure, it can be spun as just being an idiosyncrasy of this particular Doctor (and heaven knows, I wish the modern Doctors in general were given more distinct characterisations than they are), but given that she is the first female Doctor we've had, it doesn't sit well that she was the one who was written in this way. You could make a drinking game out of the number of times she says 'presumably' in each episode - and then you'd end up with alcohol poisoning, because she says it all the time! And it all adds up to that air of uncertainty she projects, whereas most of her predecessors tended to brazen it out with a touch of swagger. It's a very subtle, minor detail, but significant, imo, undermining her Doctor and setting her apart from her male counterparts. I did very much enjoy her sunny disposition in the early episodes, though, before the show began to default back to dark and brooding, which doesn't really suit her any more than it suited Smith, who never convinced me as much in his angry scenes as he did in the lighter ones.

Edited by Llywela
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kirkola

kirkola

3 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I grew up with the 3, 4 and 5th Doctors. I was the die hard fan back in the day when you couldn't find anything Doctor Who related anywhere. I stayed up late night on Sunday watching the show, sitting through pledge drives on PBS, just to get to see Doctor Who. So yes, the Doctor has always been male for me too. It is what I have known all this time. 

I agree, that a female could have worked but something was missing. Some commanding presence was just not there. Again, that is the way the character was written. I remember being concerned when Matt took the role. He was too young, wouldn't play the part right. He proved me wrong. He managed to play the Doctor as someone who looked young but inside was a times an old and very lonely man who had seen tragedy. I could see him meeting Susan and being a Grandfather. I never got that feel from Jodie. Again, maybe better writing and a better written Doctor could have worked out. Peter Capaldi's stories were not great, but I got his Doctor. 

That was my brother.  And he would scour the local conventions to get VHS tapes when he could...bootleg or not.  I was just sort of along for the ride, but I never could stay up late enough to catch them.  I didn't catch the bug until Nu-Who and #9, though don't get me wrong, I have very fond memories of #4 & #5. 

Interestingly, my brother preferred the Moffat, and I preferred Davies.  Though if I'm being honest, his critique of Davies (lack of returning villains with #9 & not knowing how to write a good ending) is pretty valid.  For me, I didn't care for Moffat's crazy timey-wimey endings (especially under #11)--time travel should not be the "way out".  I did think #11 was too young at first, but I also had the memories of how young #5 was in the 1980s and I was willing to let him try.  I grew to love #11.  So my brother and I would just good naturedly argue about Moffat vs Davies.

Then came Cibnall and #13.  I like #13, as an actress.  I think she's doing the best she can with what is written for her.  But the something missing is bad writing/plots.  Because of it, I'm not terribly impressed with Chibnall.  I don't think he gets the sci-fi part.  I never cared if #13 was a woman...only that she was given the plots to make it work.  For example, I liked Rosa....but the villain, Krasko, was a one and done thing...never to be heard from again.  So why am I supposed to care?  He wasn't fleshed out.  He wasn't given enough to do to make me care or even notice him until "surprise...here's the villain".

Yesterday, I heard Chibnall was leaving (along with Whittaker), and I looked it up for confirmation. I discovered they are filming the 3rd series of #13's time in the TARDIS, and I couldn't recall a 2nd series.  Reviewing the plots of the episodes , I realized I'd seen it...but it wasn't memorable enough to recall more than an episode or two.  And that hasn't happened to me since the heady days of John Nathan-Turner and his ridiculous overuse of the question mark under with #5, #6 & #7's tenure. 

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HauntedBathroom

HauntedBathroom

On 7/29/2021 at 4:45 PM, Llywela said:

I prefer Chibnall's stripped down style over the overwrought Moffat era, but I have found his showrunning style to be rather...lightweight, shall we say. He's a character writer at heart

I find that mind boggling. How can he be a character writer when he hasn't given any of his regulars a character? Apart from "occasionally I fall off my bike".

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Llywela

Llywela

(edited)
10 hours ago, HauntedBathroom said:

I find that mind boggling. How can he be a character writer when he hasn't given any of his regulars a character? Apart from "occasionally I fall off my bike".

Watch Broadchurch, which is all character work. And it is clear from his work here on Who that he actually is more interested in characters than sci fi, all the companions have interesting character stories as their basis, the building blocks for what should have been really strong stuff - the cancer survivor widower trying to connect with his step-grandson, the ambitious young cop trying to build a career after being left suicidal by bullying as a teen, and, yes, the young man with dyspraxia trying to find his place in the world having lost his mum and gran and been abandoned by his dad. Those are the stories he wanted to tell. The trouble is that he tried to squeeze that character work in around the edges of the wacky sci fi storytelling he feels has to come first in this show, and that's where he has fallen down. He's been repressing his character-focused instincts to focus instead on the sci fi, but the sci fi doesn't really interest him as much, and the result is an unbalanced mess. If he'd allowed himself to tell the character stories as a primary focus, and used very simple plots to hang them off, he'd have done much better. But he didn't. He structured his storytelling around sci fi plots and crammed the character work in around the edges, and it didn't work.

Edited by Llywela
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