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BlackberryJam

S02.E06: Argestes

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Another Roy clusterfuck. 

I want Gromulus to get down.

Rhea totally fucked herself trying to play both sides.

Edit: I need more of the dynamic of Kendall telling Logan not to hit Roman. That seemed like an echo of their childhood. Kendall has been such a Logan doormat, but seeing him come out of it this episode, while still fucking things up, was great, and it culminated in him being a decent brother.

So...it seems Marcia wants to be wanted and needed. She cuts Logan down when he ignores her or excludes her, she supports him when he needs her. I absolutely think we might get something about Logan attending an Epstein-style party...with photos, on one of these cruises 20 years ago. That’s why he needs Marcia to stand with him.

Logan barfing was ...indicating of rotting from the inside out.

Edited by BlackberryJam
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The presentation was a thing of beauty. I love watching the Roys fail, so I was ecstatic that each Roy kid was outdoing the other on doing exactly the opposite of what Logan wanted.

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Kendall, maybe for the first time this season, snapping out of his "Dad's plan is better" robot mode the minute Roman gets hit says SO MUCH. God these kids are terrible but the glimpses we see that they genuinely care about each other makes me feel things. 

Also moments where Kendall shows he has a glimpse of a soul, him being the only one actually having a conscience re: the cruises thing (which isn't saying much lol), is depressing because it shows that he's just not made to be a CEO for this kind of company especially. He's not Logan, which to him is a flaw when really it's probably his greatest strength but he clearly doesn't see it that way. And it feels like this season is just Logan breaking him bit by bit to mold him to be the kind of person he wants him to be to eventually take over (cause I still don't see him giving it to Shiv).

Edited by haje
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I have to digest more, but I, too, was struck the most this episode by Kendall's immediate and strong reaction to Roman getting hit. I also noticed how Roman repeatedly turned down Mr. Moneybag's coke offer in the bathroom.

Also: lol to syphilis being the Myspace of STDs. And I was howling at the whole Tom/Greg "We're listening" conversation on the nature trail.

I'm already impatient for next week!

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I really thought Shiv was going after Logan because it would help push the Pearce deal through. I figured she would explain it to him after. So is she really just in this for what she can get, Logan be damned? Does she think Logan is losing it and is moving on? Hmmm.

Loved: Kendall standing up for Roman 

Need to know more: what is Marsha’s story?

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So glad to hear that Nicholas Britell won the Emmy for best TV show theme music.  The scoring of this show adds so much to the quirkinesses and dark mood of the show.  The music for tonight’s end credits was especially good.

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great clip of Cherry Jones raving about her time on Succession after winning an Emmy tonight. 

Edited by ivygal
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Mole woman and Rock star. I’d watch that show! 

Another stellar episode, with so much to unpack, but loved Kendall coming to Roman’s defense. And Shiv actually showing a little possessiveness over Tom. 

You know a show is great when you can enjoy rewatching the episodes several times. 

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9 hours ago, Aja said:

I have to digest more, but I, too, was struck the most this episode by Kendall's immediate and strong reaction to Roman getting hit. I also noticed how Roman repeatedly turned down Mr. Moneybag's coke offer in the bathroom.

Also: lol to syphilis being the Myspace of STDs. And I was howling at the whole Tom/Greg "We're listening" conversation on the nature trail.

I'm already impatient for next week!

I’m beginning to wonder if Roman’s talk about all the drugs he has done is about as trustworthy as his talk about all the sex he has had. It would be an interesting reversal: the “serious” brother is the drug addict while the unserious party boy brother talks a big game but abstains.

I don’t know what was more depressing, Logan hitting Roman or Greg (who recoiled when Kendall demanded he snort cocaine in S1) begging Roman for a bump. I think we all suspected Logan physically abused his kids—someone on Reddit pointed out that someone made a comment earlier in S2 about Logan hitting Roman with a shoe, and of course Logan has scars on his back hinting that he was horribly abused himself—but the Roy siblings’ lack of shock when Logan slapped Roman was depressing confirmation. Kendall was outraged, but he was not surprised.

Roman’s proposal of (business) marriage to Gerri was weirdly sweet, even if he preceded it with a bunch of dehumanizing insults (which is apparently Roman and Gerri’s love language). Gerri’s too smart to throw her lot in with Roman unless there are no other serious contenders, though. I did notice her trying to distract Logan and soothe him after he hit Roman by telling Logan that it played well, like a rodeo clown trying to distract a bull.

It was satisfying to watch Logan screwed over by a woman and powerless to stop it after all his misogynistic bullshit.

The “We’re listening” thing was hilarious and perfect.

Tom calling syphilis “the MySpace of STDs” is the funniest line in S2 and maybe the entire show. So good!

I know that real world Ronan Farrow works for the New Yorker and not New York magazine (the magazine that released the Waystar expose), and I know the show doesn't do one-to-one alternate universe versions of real life people, but are we going to meet Succession's version of Ronan Farrow as the journalist behind the scoop? Because that would be great fun.

Looks like Cherry Jones may go back to back for the Guest Actress Emmy! I loved her as Nan (assuming this is the last we'll see of her in S2).

Edited by Eyes High
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9 hours ago, Maire said:

I really thought Shiv was going after Logan because it would help push the Pearce deal through. I figured she would explain it to him after. So is she really just in this for what she can get, Logan be damned? Does she think Logan is losing it and is moving on? Hmmm.

I think Logan would have seen it as a PR ploy under other circumstances.  Logan, though, it's at his raggedy end of his rope.  Not only is the company seriously threatened, but he's worried about being pushed out.  Shiv's statement was probably the right sort of thing that needed to be said to maintain the Pierce deal, it was exactly the wrong thing for her father's fragile mental condition.

On the stage, Roman showed that he's not fit for any sort of public role in the company even if he some how convinces Jerry to have him as a puppet CEO.   Kendall fell into standard corporate damage control speak and he wasn't convincing about it in the least.  Shiv's experience is with politics where a candidate can change his or her approach on the fly.  She was using her skills but badly misunderstood her father's worries.

Did you notice the crowd for Tom's talk.  Barely attended and the number start increasing as he wraps up and gets ready to hand the stage off to the family.  Everyone knows he's a lightweight with nothing to say.  He proved it by giving a typical TED talk, platitudes wrapped in that distinctive style of talking while walking in front of a screen.    Shiv needs him as a loyal pet to prop up her ego.

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I thought Shiv made a good attempt to explain to Tom that it is ok for her to be with other men but not for him to be with other women.  It seemed like Tom fell for it or at least became confused.  They are in different leagues and while Tom may realize that, he is trying to best to make it to the “majors.”

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That was a massive level clusterfuck even by Roy standards. Rhea honestly fits in pretty well with Logan, she is clearly playing both sides down the middle and is just trying to find the deal that will benefit her the most. 

It was amazing finally watching Kendall momentarily snap out of his "dads plan is best" mode for a minute to stand up for Roman when Logan smacked him. Its always great to see those moments where we see that, behind the constant backstabbing and snarking, the Roy kids do actually care about each other deep down, certainly more than Logan does. Kendall is a good business man, when he is sober and with it, but he just doesent have the cold heart needed to run this business. He went pragmatic quickly, but he did seem to actually be upset about what happened on their cruise ship, at least for a second. Of course, even Shiv did a double take when Logan dropped his "poor bitches" line. The kid reactions to Logan hitting Roman does make me wonder more about what their childhood was like. There was outrage, but not surprise. It also seems to say something about the dynamic of the family that even though Logan was clearly pissed at Shiv, he took it out on Roman, whos screw up was much less personal towards him. 

"Syphilis is the MySpace of STDs" is the line of the season so far, that was hilarious! I loved all of the Tom and Greg bits of them desperately trying to find a title that doesent seem to comment about their company possibly data mining and spying on people. "We Here, For You" is absolute nonsense but totally sounds like the kind of thing that Tom would come up with. Speaking of Tom, he looked so happy when Shiv was upset that he was talking to another woman, he was practically glowing! 

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16 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Speaking of Tom, he looked so happy when Shiv was upset that he was talking to another woman, he was practically glowing! 

He really needed something to bolster his ego after what's been happening to and around him this season thus far.

I was really struck by the difference in height between Logan, Greg, and Tom in the scene where Logan sees his archenemy in that mingling area of the resort.  Brian Cox isn't tall, but those two looked like giants beside him.

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Desperation is not a good look for Logan, but a look from him I don't think we've seen before. Running after the car carrying Nan away and pounding on the window is the type of hysterical behavior that he's formerly been able to contain "in-house." He's loosing it. His many fixers can't fix this.

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57 minutes ago, ahpny said:

Desperation is not a good look for Logan, but a look from him I don't think we've seen before. Running after the car carrying Nan away and pounding on the window is the type of hysterical behavior that he's formerly been able to contain "in-house." He's loosing it. His many fixers can't fix this.

Which could lead to some serious health issues, i.e. a stroke, heart attack, death.

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Think there's any significance in the fact that iirc the physical abuse stories we've heard have both involved Roman? I keep thinking about that story about him in the dog case where Connor said that the weaker dog gets sent away to explain Roman being sent to military school (how did Roman survive in military school? Did he just get off on the authoritarian punishment there too?). Like maybe Logan always sees him as the weakest so that's the kid he goes after the most physically. He is more physically cringing than any of the other kids.

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I'm delurking to say that I think Nan never intended to sell Pierce. She showed up to Argestes in a foul mood, avoided real negotiations, complained about the menu prices and just ordered tap water, and then leaped on the first opportunity to back out of the deal. Also, I'm not really that educated about corporate culture, but I thought  CEO's had a responsibility to find the best possible financial opportunities for the company. Does Rhea really need to defend why she tried to broker this deal if it nets Nan a profit?

Logan hit Roman hard enough to knock out a tooth and Roman said it was no big deal, which is a pretty good indication that Roman has been regularly abused. Logan is an abusive narcissist, who keeps a cycle of love bombing and abuse to control everyone around him. I noticed that Marcia only put her arm out to buffer Kendall and Logan -- the "kids" were left to fend for themselves. She's a piece of work, that one. 

There are so many details in this episode to consider!

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PGM wasn't on the market to be sold. Waystar approached PGM about a buyout. So while the Pierces might want to sell and be done with it all, they don't need to sell.

If PGM was on the market, Rhea should be leveraging the potential buyers against each other. This isn't the case. Rhea put herself in a position of advocating for a sale that wasn't necessary and having undocumented and undisclosed meetings with the potential buyer. Nan has no idea if Rhea was disclosing privileged information to Logan.

Rhea did a pretty good job of walking the line and she specifically told Logan last episode that she didn't work for him and getting this deal done wasn't her job. It seems to me that Rhea knows the Pierce family wants to step away at some point in the near future and when the opportunity to sell came up, the Roy deal looked good.

As the current matriarch of the Pierce family, she wanted to keep the integrity, as she saw it, of PGM in tact, while getting as much cash as possible and being able to step away. It's very hard to see your 'baby' to someone who isn't going to treat it right. I do think Nan was regretting the deal. 

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I think, if anything, the episode showed that both Logan and Nan were out of touch with their contemporaries in their field and are both flailing. Nan did not seem to know anyone (or at least did not talk to anyone that we saw), and Logan had no idea how to relate to anyone during their crisis. 

I also thought Rhea did a great job as a power broker, and clearly inspired Shiv ("it's all gravy"), but the patriarch and matriarch were too unwieldy to manage, and the Roy family is basically feral, so that's a lot of juggling

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I'm not sure Rhea's angle. She could be getting pressure from the rest of the family who wants the cash, or she could know that PGM needs a cash infusion to stay solvent or that if they don't get cash, they may need to dial back.

Old school investigative journalism, the Weinstein scandal aside, is pretty much dead. The 24 hour news cycle and the push for newstainment over informative stories has changed that industry. Most major events break on twitter from someone who sees things happen than a published story.

Rhea may have been trying to get herself a shot at the Waystar top job. She'd be more qualified than any of the Roys.

Ultimately though, she appeared to be betraying the Pierces. There was a reason they snuck her in the back and that Shiv went to Rhea's cabin. Honestly though, Shiv looked so out of place on that entire walk, business clothes and heels while everyone else was pseudo-dressed for hiking. There were probably a dozen people who saw Shiv making that walk and reported it.

If Rhea had told Nan about those meetings, Rhea would be fine. She didn't. 

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PGM had 8 straight quarters of losses though, so they were vulnerable, and that is why a play was possible.  (I don't like Nan, much.)  Rhea did have the right to see what was being offered, what Nan didn't like was the maneuvering that was going on. 

$25 billion dollars is a pretty good offer, Nan just didn't want to seem like a sell-out. Once they go through 8 more quarters of losses and start having to have mass layoffs, she might rethink the whole "no" answer. 

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Rhea was Nan’s handler, that’s essentially her job. Just like Logan lashed out at Roman for the panel going south, Nan lashed out at Rhea when she got cold feet over the deal. I don’t think it means anything Rhea did was actually bad or not in Nan’s best interest. 

Nan is the steward of an old, illustrious family company. And she inherited it, she didn’t build it — she’s almost by definition out of her depth among all these powerful founders and MBA sharks. She’s going to be terrified of making a mistake. Cold feet were basically inevitable. 

I’ve seen a similar dynamic so many times at my job. 

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1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Think there's any significance in the fact that iirc the physical abuse stories we've heard have both involved Roman? I keep thinking about that story about him in the dog case where Connor said that the weaker dog gets sent away to explain Roman being sent to military school (how did Roman survive in military school? Did he just get off on the authoritarian punishment there too?). Like maybe Logan always sees him as the weakest so that's the kid he goes after the most physically. He is more physically cringing than any of the other kids.

I think it's entirely possible that Roman was the only one of the siblings who was physically abused, and that, even worse, as in this episode he was used as a whipping boy for the other siblings: Logan wouldn't hit his baby girl or his heir apparent, but he would take out his anger with them on Roman. 

1 hour ago, HeddaGabler said:

Logan hit Roman hard enough to knock out a tooth and Roman said it was no big deal, which is a pretty good indication that Roman has been regularly abused. Logan is an abusive narcissist, who keeps a cycle of love bombing and abuse to control everyone around him. I noticed that Marcia only put her arm out to buffer Kendall and Logan -- the "kids" were left to fend for themselves. She's a piece of work, that one. 

There are so many details in this episode to consider!

As a reviewer for this episode pointed out, Logan striking Kendall's son Iverson in S1 seemed at the time like it could be explained a result of the stroke, but it's now very clear it was part of a pattern.

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Can someone enlighten me what meeting on "September 13th" Nan was referring to that annoyed her so much?   Because I'm a tad confused.  Was that the meeting Rhea took at Waystar and the shooter incident?  Because I was under the impression that she was sent by the Pearce/Pierce family to essentially "sound out" Logan on his offer but also to give him the "take a hike" message.  Was there another meeting that painted Rhea in a bad light?  Did I miss it?  I get that near the end she seemed more like an advocate for Logan than Nan but I just don't understand Nan's anger.  It could be Rhea is looking at the bottom line and realizes PGM is in worse shape than they realize and that they needed this sale.  

But I also like the idea that Rhea was positioning herself to take the control position in the organization once the sale was complete.  It's become more obvious by day that Tom is severely out of his depth in this.

Next week - shredded documents!  

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3 hours ago, terrymct said:

He really needed something to bolster his ego after what's been happening to and around him this season thus far.

I was really struck by the difference in height between Logan, Greg, and Tom in the scene where Logan sees his archenemy in that mingling area of the resort.  Brian Cox isn't tall, but those two looked like giants beside him.

Greg err Gregory(Nicholas Braun) is 6'5". Tom(Matther Macfayden) is 6'3" and Logan(Brian Cox) is 5'9"

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1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

I think it's entirely possible that Roman was the only one of the siblings who was physically abused, and that, even worse, as in this episode he was used as a whipping boy for the other siblings: Logan wouldn't hit his baby girl or his heir apparent, but he would take out his anger with them on Roman. 

As a reviewer for this episode pointed out, Logan striking Kendall's son Iverson in S1 seemed at the time like it could be explained a result of the stroke, but it's now very clear it was part of a pattern.

Yes, that seemed like it made sense to me as well. It's not unheard of where there's an abusive parent and only one kid gets a certain kind of abuse. Iverson was weak like Roman and then told Logan that he'd lost. I forget exactly what Roman said here, but Logan certainly was feeling like he lost there too.

38 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

Can someone enlighten me what meeting on "September 13th" Nan was referring to that annoyed her so much?   Because I'm a tad confused.  Was that the meeting Rhea took at Waystar and the shooter incident?  Because I was under the impression that she was sent by the Pearce/Pierce family to essentially "sound out" Logan on his offer but also to give him the "take a hike" message.  Was there another meeting that painted Rhea in a bad light?  Did I miss it?  I get that near the end she seemed more like an advocate for Logan than Nan but I just don't understand Nan's anger.  It could be Rhea is looking at the bottom line and realizes PGM is in worse shape than they realize and that they needed this sale.  

But I also like the idea that Rhea was positioning herself to take the control position in the organization once the sale was complete.  It's become more obvious by day that Tom is severely out of his depth in this.

Next week - shredded documents!  

I thought it was a reference to the meeting in the safe room. That meeting wasn't approved by Nan. She didn't know about it.

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43 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I thought it was a reference to the meeting in the safe room. That meeting wasn't approved by Nan. She didn't know about it.

Wasn’t that meeting the same day that they had an abbreviated lunch together?  I thought Rhea tried to leave but things got out of hand with the suicide. Or, were those 2 different days?

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1 hour ago, sheetmoss said:

Greg err Gregory(Nicholas Braun) is 6'5". Tom(Matther Macfayden) is 6'3" and Logan(Brian Cox) is 5'9"

I googled a bit and there are mentions tha 5’9 might be a bit inflated. 

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1 hour ago, Dminches said:

Wasn’t that meeting the same day that they had an abbreviated lunch together?  I thought Rhea tried to leave but things got out of hand with the suicide. Or, were those 2 different days?

Same day. After she delivered the Pierced message to fuck off, she was brought to the safe room after shooting took place. Then the Roys made their second pitch to buy the company. If not for the shooting, they would never had a chance to buy.  

Edited by nilyank
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Thanks everyone for the replies on the meeting.  That's where my confusion was - I WAS under the impression that PGM had sent Rhea to Logan to tell him to back the hell off.  Since they were the same day, I couldn't figure out why Rhea was so tongue-tied about what was discussed, since the assumption was that SOMETHING was discussed, since Logan and family got the invitation for the weekend.  

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Hi Moderator of this forum, could you please send me a message? I have a quick question for you. Cheers.

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4 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

I'm not sure Rhea's angle. She could be getting pressure from the rest of the family who wants the cash, or she could know that PGM needs a cash infusion to stay solvent or that if they don't get cash, they may need to dial back.

They did mention 8 quarters of consecutive losses.  People have compared the Pierces to the family who owned the Wall Street Journal and sold it to Rupert Murdoch.

I don't know if they needed the money but when a big corporate behemoth can leverage and offer billions, it would be hard for the owners to not consider it.

As for Rhea, she would probably be in line for some huge bonus, because of PGM is losing money and is going to continue to lose money, then her compensation won't be as great.

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20 hours ago, Hava said:

The presentation was a thing of beauty. I love watching the Roys fail, so I was ecstatic that each Roy kid was outdoing the other on doing exactly the opposite of what Logan wanted.

It's kind of like their weekend at the Pierces.  They were told to be on their best behavior but they just couldn't help themselves.

Of course Shiv jumping in at the last minute and the other two not wanting her there probably added to this competitiveness, especially to talk over each other.

Usually they'd be coached and put on a very tight leash on what to say.  I would have thought Kendall would be the most coachable in this respect, that he'd know how to steer clear of adding to the controversy, say things but not really say anything.

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20 hours ago, haje said:

Kendall, maybe for the first time this season, snapping out of his "Dad's plan is better" robot mode the minute Roman gets hit says SO MUCH. God these kids are terrible but the glimpses we see that they genuinely care about each other makes me feel things. 

Also moments where Kendall shows he has a glimpse of a soul, him being the only one actually having a conscience re: the cruises thing (which isn't saying much lol), is depressing because it shows that he's just not made to be a CEO for this kind of company especially. He's not Logan, which to him is a flaw when really it's probably his greatest strength but he clearly doesn't see it that way. And it feels like this season is just Logan breaking him bit by bit to mold him to be the kind of person he wants him to be to eventually take over (cause I still don't see him giving it to Shiv).

So in the first season, Logan also hits Kendall's son in the face.

I think Kendall reacts more strongly in this one, not so much because he cares about Roman so much, but maybe it's become a trigger for him or after Logan hit his son in the face, he's more sensitive to it.

I mean, Roman is kind of punchable, the snark he always spews out.  But Logan was complaining about Shiv's "dinosaur" comment and then Roman was making some joke and Logan let him have it.

Looks like Kendall's Chappaquiddick will become public next week.  We'll see if Logan is protective of Kendall.

Or maybe Kendall becomes liberated from doing Logan's bidding, though when Logan gave him his marching orders, he yelled at the lawyers in the front of the plane, knocked over their snacks.

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I was confused about one point, thought. At the presentation, did Kendall go off script when he said, "we're not going to just condemn and move on"? I thought he had gone off script because that is exactly what Logan wanted to do--condemn and move on--but Kendall didn't get any flak for it afterwards, so I wasn't sure.

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2 hours ago, scrb said:

So in the first season, Logan also hits Kendall's son in the face.

I think Kendall reacts more strongly in this one, not so much because he cares about Roman so much, but maybe it's become a trigger for him or after Logan hit his son in the face, he's more sensitive to it.

I mean, Roman is kind of punchable, the snark he always spews out.  But Logan was complaining about Shiv's "dinosaur" comment and then Roman was making some joke and Logan let him have it.

As pointed out by @sistermagpie, the parallel was that Iverson and Roman bluntly pointed out the obvious (in Iverson's case that Logan lost, in Roman's case that Shiv roasted the "dinosaur" Logan publicly), and Logan couldn't deny that the statements in question were truthful, so he lashed out angrily instead. 

It seems clear now that Roman's snark in addition to being a natural tendency is how he deals with the threat of his father's anger. If he hides his feelings and plays everything off as a joke, then he can get away with saying things that he would otherwise never dare say. And the benefit of saying outrageous, unserious things all the time is that you can slip in outrageous truths (like Roman casually talking about his bathroom episode with Gerri) and not be believed.

Quote

Or maybe Kendall becomes liberated from doing Logan's bidding, though when Logan gave him his marching orders, he yelled at the lawyers in the front of the plane, knocked over their snacks.

I remember Kendall selling Naomi on the deal by telling her that she could be free, with the implied subtext that it was too late for him. I'll be interested to see if Kendall reaches a breaking point and decides to fess up and face the consequences so that he can be free, too.

Edited by Eyes High
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41 minutes ago, Hava said:

I was confused about one point, thought. At the presentation, did Kendall go off script when he said, "we're not going to just condemn and move on"? I thought he had gone off script because that is exactly what Logan wanted to do--condemn and move on--but Kendall didn't get any flak for it afterwards, so I wasn't sure.

I didn't think that was off-script. That's exactly what you say when you intend to do just that. The first step in condemning and moving on is to say you're not going to just condemn and move on. That implies you've condemned. Then you move on.

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3 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I didn't think that was off-script. That's exactly what you say when you intend to do just that. The first step in condemning and moving on is to say you're not going to just condemn and move on. That implies you've condemned. Then you move on.

Yeah, I thought the same -- backstage it was "we want to condemn and move on!", but in front of the people, it's "the last thing we want to do is condemn and move on..."  These are not scrupulous people. :)

I really want to know Marcia's deal. She was so pissed at Logan all throughout Tern Haven, but now she seems back to her old self. I do think there is a strong bond between Logan and Marcia, though--during the last episode, when Nan called the after-breakfast meeting with everyone and Marcia didn't show up, Nan asked where she was and Logan said "Oh, she's taking a walk" and Nan said "She is a credit. You know, most men of your station go for women of a certain...type." Translation: You could be nailing a 20 year-old supermodel if you wanted to, but you actually have an age-appropriate wife, what a credit to your character. Logan looked like he was about to get up and storm out right then and there. And this episode, he seemed relieved when she promised to stick by him. 

Logan really seems like he's losing it. Chasing down Nan's car at the end was really desperate. How sick is he, exactly?

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Loved seeing Kendall reflexively defend roman against Logan who has controlled him this entire season.  I don't think either kid would do it if the tables were turned.  I wonder if this will be the tipping point to start getting Kendall the human back and getting rid of the Kendall robot.  

The roys needed PGM for the proxy battle.  Who can they acquire now?  

It's possible.....possible that Nan and family come back to the table if Logan publicly announces shiv as successor.  Nan clearly liked her talk, all the cousins want to sell, Nan wants the money, and it's probably the best deal they will get.

Nan could want the deal, but not to have the optics of looking like she is JUST in it for the money and is willing to sell her family legacy to a guy who oversaw....whatever horrible, sexist things happened on those cruises.  If shiv was at the helm, a young, smart woman who worked for not Bernie Sanders and wasn't even with the company....the optics might be better. 

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10 hours ago, rue721 said:

Rhea was Nan’s handler, that’s essentially her job. Just like Logan lashed out at Roman for the panel going south, Nan lashed out at Rhea when she got cold feet over the deal. I don’t think it means anything Rhea did was actually bad or not in Nan’s best interest. 

Nan is the steward of an old, illustrious family company. And she inherited it, she didn’t build it — she’s almost by definition out of her depth among all these powerful founders and MBA sharks. She’s going to be terrified of making a mistake. Cold feet were basically inevitable. 

We don't know anything about Nan other than what we've seen. She could have an MBA. Her business was around for a long time before Rhea arrived. She lashed out at Rhea for double dealing and she must be pretty savvy as she made sure there's a clause in Rhea's contract specifically prohibiting sidebar conversations like the one Rhea had with Logan.  Is integrity so rare these days that we don't recognize it when we see it?

Anyone else notice Logan stumbling when he got up to go meet Nan. I think there's something going on with him health-wise.

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I think Nan has fears that Logan will just absorb the PGM properties into Waystar and make it a part of ATN or like ATN, which represents the most horrific part of media for her.

She is of course right to be fearful.

She could just take the money and run but she does seem to hew to what she believes is principle.  The rest of the Pierces too, as they let her decide for them, which is kind of incredible as it's a huge sum for each of them.

Though maybe they already have more than they know what to do with, so they don't care if they keep PGM and it continues to lose money.

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I've been under the impression that Rhea was actually a member of the Pierce family, but at the end of the episode, it seemed that she just worked for them.  Can someone clarify?

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@Bulldog she’s the CEO of PGM but not a blood relation

Hey does anyone think that when Kendall was scanning the room upon arrival it was Naomi he was looking for? That’s the impression I got. 

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5 hours ago, scrb said:

I think Nan has fears that Logan will just absorb the PGM properties into Waystar and make it a part of ATN or like ATN, which represents the most horrific part of media for her.

She is of course right to be fearful.

She could just take the money and run but she does seem to hew to what she believes is principle.  The rest of the Pierces too, as they let her decide for them, which is kind of incredible as it's a huge sum for each of them.

Though maybe they already have more than they know what to do with, so they don't care if they keep PGM and it continues to lose money.

I have no doubt that Logan would immediately set about turning the PGM properties into ATN clones, if only out of revenge for the various perceived slights against him (turning his previous offer down, publishing unflattering pieces about him). When Frank was talking before the Tern Haven trip about the Pierces wanting to make sure that their legacy will be taken care of and their values will be respected, and Logan said something like “And I want an onion to taste like a peach.” Shiv also initially worried about where she would get her “real” news if Waystar acquired PGM, so she was under no illusions about what Logan would do to PGM, either.

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3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I have no doubt that Logan would immediately set about turning the PGM properties into ATN clones, if only out of revenge for the various perceived slights against him (turning his previous offer down, publishing unflattering pieces about him). When Frank was talking before the Tern Haven trip about the Pierces wanting to make sure that their legacy will be taken care of and their values will be respected, and Logan said something like “And I want an onion to taste like a peach.” Shiv also initially worried about where she would get her “real” news if Waystar acquired PGM, so she was under no illusions about what Logan would do to PGM, either.

Also Euan watches that channel so Logan would want to turn it into his own kind of news for that reason too.

8 hours ago, scrb said:

Though maybe they already have more than they know what to do with, so they don't care if they keep PGM and it continues to lose money.

This is such a logical idea, yet the behavior of real rich people seems to suggest that the more money you have the more obsessed you are with keeping and getting as much as possible. It's bizarre. 

Still, I can definitely believe that Nan sees the integrity PGM more important. 

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3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Also Euan watches that channel so Logan would want to turn it into his own kind of news for that reason too.

This is such a logical idea, yet the behavior of real rich people seems to suggest that the more money you have the more obsessed you are with keeping and getting as much as possible. It's bizarre. 

Still, I can definitely believe that Nan sees the integrity PGM more important. 

I can believe that Nan BELIEVES she thinks that, but I'm betting the bottom line will get to her soon enough.  I don't know why, but she struck me as a bit hollow and false herself. Very self-righteous.   

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6 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I can believe that Nan BELIEVES she thinks that, but I'm betting the bottom line will get to her soon enough.  I don't know why, but she struck me as a bit hollow and false herself. Very self-righteous.   

Oh yeah, I wouldn't trust Nan's integrity to hold out under too much pressure. But I can believe she would act on it in some instances, especially if she didn't like the other guy!

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8 hours ago, Bulldog said:

I've been under the impression that Rhea was actually a member of the Pierce family, but at the end of the episode, it seemed that she just worked for them.  Can someone clarify?

So did I.  Also, I have another question - as someone pointed out, she seemed relatively assuaged by Shiv's response on the panel.  Was it the comedian's monologue that ignited her fury?  

Also, I would have thought that Shiv would have had the most DIRECT experience in the spinning of negative media stories.  Logan should have put his foot down and told the two boys it would be SHIV that started the panel and the boys come out after.  She could even have prefaced it with "My brothers will be out in a moment, but first I'm here to address the issue that's on everyone's mind."  That would have put the issue out front at the outset and kept the two idiots off the stage.

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