S03.E10: A Very GLOW Christmas

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

With morale running low, Carmen convinces the team to perform A Christmas Carol in the ring. Debbie and Bash strike up a unlikely new partnership.

Original air date: 8/9/19

[MrsR]

Bombed through this season.

The time jumps are weird.

The whole drag queen story was kind of intrusive. I mean gay content is expected and welcome especially with Bash and Arthie and Yolanda and all but I just didn't get with Sheila and her need for her mentor. And why would Sheila be bleaching her hair blond just to cover it up with her wolf wig. The hate crime was heavy handed and too lecturing. I like this show when it gets it's point across in a sarcastic hard hearted way but that was all too pointed. See: Challenger Explosion.

I would tell Rhonda to run like hell but there's that 40M to think about. And I hated Sam's story and Ruth's issues with acting. Debbie is the bomb. Didn't see the prostitution switcheroo coming, loved that exchange. Geena was a stiff but major credit for the costume. Role switching was awesome, LIZA! Xmas Carol was great.

Overall this was my least favorite season.

Edited August 10, 2019 by MrsR

[kieyra]

This was an odd season. I liked the individual episodes, and most stuff felt very in-character, but it was a different and more serious show. Especially without the wrestling to keep things lighthearted. 

The pacing and time jumps were strange, as was Marc Maron’s somewhat sidelined role. I didn’t realize how bad I wanted Sam and Ruth together until they were together for five whole minutes and then blew it up.

Debbie’s relationship with Toby Huss, and then striking out on her own reminded me of Joan’s last (older) suitor on Mad Men, and how she had to stand up to his attempts to put her into some kind of box. In both situations, these women who were tired of men calling the shots found what seemed like a reprieve with these older, wealthy guys who respected them for their brains AND their beauty, but then turned out to be the same old, same old. 

[Lady Calypso]

Yeah, I'm surprised with how quickly I finished the season. As I reflect back on it, I realize that I didn't actually like it all that much. 

There were a lot of issues and plot holes that never quite worked. My biggest issue is with how little GLOW actually was shown in this season. The times that they showed the ladies wrestling were some of the better moments of this season. In this episode, the Christmas Carol performance was fantastic. 

It really sucked to see Bash take one step forward with telling Debbie about his sexuality, only to take two steps back (lying to Rhonda and even asking for a family). However, I get it was realistic back then. It's just really hard to watch, even if you totally understand why he's afraid to embrace his sexuality. And even more sad is how Rhonda is going to stay with him, even after seeing him get intimate with another man in a way that he never did with her. I wonder, if Rhonda had spoken first before Bash, if she would have asked for a divorce. 

Poor Carmen. She isn't wrong; she needs to be able to do her own thing and GLOW is holding her back. They take her for granted and she should be the star of the show, if not for Ruth and Debbie. So I can't blame her for quitting, even though it sucks. 

I think Ruth quit as well? But I don't know what she plans to do. What's even weirder is how little Marc Maron appeared as Sam. And they started plots with him (such as his health issues) that they never quite finished. He asked Justine if he could adopt her, which was nice, but so little was even spent on their relationship this season, besides one episode. 

So, Bash and Debbie are forming their own TV station, which could be fun to watch if the show gets renewed. It sucks that Debbie backstabbed her own boyfriend for it, but they were heading into rocky waters, anyway.

Arthie comes out officially, and I presume her and Yolanda are getting back together? And Sheila's figuring out her own life, which is fantastic.

Overall, a very rocky season. Some fantastic moments and then some serious missteps. I'd still love a season 4, if only to wrap things up. I think they don't have much more to tell, so one final season would satisfy me. 

[dubbel zout]

"You're my girlfriend, not my partner." Ouch, Tex. Way to totally disrespect what Debbie has done for you. Good for her for buying the TV station out from under him.

Whoever predicted Keith and Cherry could adopt was spot on! Bravo.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Aww, I love that Carmen loves Christmas so much.

I totally cracked up when Tex asked Debbie which bolo tie he should wear and she said they were the same.

Debbie has had some major 80s hair all season (as has Rhonda), but Bash's hair was next level in this episode.

Poor Bash. He feels so guilty and ashamed for being attracted to men that he's drunkenly confessing to Debbie and begging her to tell him what to do. But once again, he lied to Rhonda. I don't doubt that there is some truth in what he says (he wants to be with her and have a family) but it's mostly due to not wanting to admit that he's gay/bi.

I love that Debbie has become an astute businesswoman, but I hated seeing how Tex reacted when she started talking about one of his deals. I was a little surprised that she was willing to destroy her relationship with him by stealing his deal because they seemed to get along really well until this episode.

I hope they find a way to keep Carmen around because she's awesome. I also hope that Ruth was just turning down the directing offer, not being on the new show altogether. I get that it's hard to hear what Debbie said to her about how acting is not going to happen for her, but even if she doesn't want to direct, why would she turn down getting to create a new character and do a new wrestling show on tv?

Didn't Bash agree to keep the show in Vegas for another year? How are they going to get out of that? Are Bash and Debbie planning to train more wrestlers so that they can have the Vegas show plus the tv show? Or are they going to break their contract at the casino? Or do they think it will take a year to get the show ready and by that time, they will be done with the Vegas show?

Although I was glad to see Keith again, it reminded me that we never got a resolution to Cherry's $5K gambling debt. Did she make it all back mud wrestling with Carmen?

[dubbel zout]

44 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Although I was glad to see Keith again, it reminded me that we never got a resolution to Cherry's $5K gambling debt. Did she make it all back mud wrestling with Carmen?

I think she did, though it was never explicitly stated. They must have gotten a part of the bets, and maybe Carmen gave Cherry her share?

[DianeDobbler]

On 8/9/2019 at 11:57 PM, MrsR said:

And why would Sheila be bleaching her hair blond just to cover it up with her wolf wig.

That kept distracting me. I liked this season more than you did though. Ruth's character suffered the most. She just repeated beats from last season and stayed in limbo. She briefly seemed to igo for it with Sam, but he'd gone back to L.A., which everyone knew would be the case as soon as she went to his door. I didn't expect GLOW to keep Sam and Ruth apart the second half of the season, but I guess it's difficult to come up with other reasons to not pull the trigger with them. Ruth really took a backseat this season though as they let Debbie become the leading lady. This always happens in a will they or won't they. Shows start focusing on other stuff when the couple reaches the fish or cut bait stage AND throws in something like Sam's geographic unavailability or other abrupt external obstacle.

I did enjoy Sam's maturity. I like good, tight tv plotting and plot devices. His heart attack as the cherry on the sundae of his self-improvement regimen is a perfect example. He's already working out and working pretty hard, and there goes the booze and cigarettes - mostly. I love Marc Maron and Britt Baron together, and as cheesy as Justine's movie success turned out to be, and as neatly perfect for both her and Sam, II couldn't help feeling happy.

Didn't particularly enjoy the confessional re the Holocaust and Cambodian genocide. The relationship stakes were very low, as were the character stakes. The two women are minor characters, so it came off as virtue signalling and a history lesson.

Enjoyed Betty Gilpin more this season. Seasons 1-2, I recognized her talent without caring at all about Debbie, and that's still the case. But Gilpin is very funny in the expressions that flicker across her face when Bash nods he's heard of Fifi LaCock or Sandy asks her how she'd feel if Bash died or Tex holds up two bolo ties. I like how comedic things register with her more than dramatic things.

All that hype about Geena Davis, and the character existed only to extend their contract, something that could have happened off screen.

Ruth is a terrible actress. Or she's a comedienne/character actor rather than the serious actress she wants to be. She was a cute Liberty Belle, and if she worked her cutesy ingenue side she would probably book things. It's also ridiculous that the show pretends Debbie has the killer, commercial body and look and Ruth doesn't. Nobody mentions it. She doesn't dress to enhance it, but somebody should have mentioned it to her by now. Instead she's an earnest actress who is not hot, not interesting, not that talented, and can't get out of her head and into her instincts.

The TV station situation didn't bother me. Once a show is up and running the way GLOW is, producing and recasting can be done long distance when necessary. They can have a stage manager/show runner on site. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by DianeDobbler

[Riplet68]

At the libertine ball, Cherry said she was in the mood to celebrate because she was out of debt.

i liked that the show covered a whole year, liked Debbies growth (though where did Randy disappear to?), loved the switching roles scene.    I enjoyed not a lot of wrestling, it can get old.  Liked most of the characters having some growth. LOVED that Sam supported Justine, I was expecting him to backstab her.

1 quibble, Top Gun came out in 1986, there wouldn’t have been filming it at the time Sam and Justine were at the studio.

[MrsR]

Quote

  ON 8/9/2019 AT 11:57 PM, MRSR SAID:

And why would Sheila be bleaching her hair blond just to cover it up with her wolf wig.

That kept distracting me. I liked this season more than you did though.

Sorry, let me explain. When they're leaving for Xmas, it's very obvious that Sheila has dark roots. So Sheila has been bleaching her hair blonde and then wearing a brown wig to cover her bleached hair. Clearly the actress bleaches her hair and the staff didn't pay attention to the details.
 

Every year there are sloppy details like that. Like Dunkin Donuts at the car wash I think it was. No, no Dunkies in LA in 86.

[dubbel zout]

Why does it matter if Sheila dyed her real hair? It wasn’t long enough to be her wolf hair anyway.

Edited August 12, 2019 by dubbel zout
homophone trouble

[ElectricBoogaloo]

5 hours ago, MrsR said:

Every year there are sloppy details like that. Like Dunkin Donuts at the car wash I think it was. No, no Dunkies in LA in 86.

I moved to California in the 80s and there were definitely Dunkin' Donuts here back then. They all closed in the 90s and there was a Dunkin' Donuts desert until the company started opening locations here again in 2014.

[DoctorAtomic]

On 8/9/2019 at 10:11 PM, kieyra said:

This was an odd season. I liked the individual episodes, and most stuff felt very in-character, but it was a different and more serious show. Especially without the wrestling to keep things lighthearted. 

I liked it but there seemed like less a directed narrative this season.

On 8/9/2019 at 10:16 PM, Lady Calypso said:

So I can't blame her for quitting, even though it sucks. 

Yeah, but Debbie might have given her a more influential role and she didn't wait to hear her out.

On 8/9/2019 at 10:16 PM, Lady Calypso said:

It sucks that Debbie backstabbed her own boyfriend for it, but they were heading into rocky waters, anyway.

I think he burned that bridge himself when he was saying the 'my girlfriend' speech. He just didn't see her seriously.

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I get that it's hard to hear what Debbie said to her about how acting is not going to happen for her, but even if she doesn't want to direct, why would she turn down getting to create a new character and do a new wrestling show on tv?

I can't imagine she wouldn't want to direct. And while it might not be 'her catapult', it's still steady work where she's in charge and she can use it to step up to other things.

[Miles]

Oh Bash, you were so close, but then you veered straight off a cliff! That shit is going to make it so much worse. Guess it's good TV though, and sadly realistic. But I really had hoped he would be honest and maybe come to an understanding with Rhonda. Dude really broke my heart during the scene where he confided in Debbie. I was literally hugging my blanket and couldn't let go.

I don't think the show did want it to come off that way, but I really didn't like Arthie being bullied into saying that she's gay. I mean so what if she doesn't know or if she's Bi? What business is that of anybody else, even her girlfriend. She said she loved her and wanted to be with her. That should be enough, shouldn't it? That's some bullshit.

I do like how the TV deal came to be. Another man underestimating Debbie and not seeing her as an equal partner. That will bite you in the ass.

So Ruth wants so desperatly to be an actress that she doesn't take a sweet directing gig, something she has shown she is talented in and that she had fun doing? I guess some people just don't want to be happy... I mean she ccould probably still go on auditions, if she really wanted to.

[Miles]

11 hours ago, Riplet68 said:

1 quibble, Top Gun came out in 1986, there wouldn’t have been filming it at the time Sam and Justine were at the studio.

I mean, they would have been there pretty early in the year (since it was before the massive time jump and the challanger explosion we saw in episode one was January 28th) and it came out in May. But yeah, even if that was supposed to be reshoots, that wouldn't have been enough time for post production.

[ruby24]

I really don't like Rhonda. Pairing her of all people up with Bash has made her become the show's most uninteresting and irrelevant character.

Bash was more likable in the last two seasons, despite his cluelessness. Now he just seems like an asshole. I know he's struggling with his sexuality, but I seriously don't think pairing him up with Rhonda was a good move. They have no scene chemistry as actors. He does have some with Debbie and Carmen, even Sam. 

[thuganomics85]

Carmen thinking up of a wrestling version of A Christmas Carol was the best.  As was her performance in the ring, which was really giving off some old-school Undertaker vibes.  I don't blame her for wanting to have a go at non-Vegas pro-wrestling, but I wish she heard out Debbie's offer.

Speaking of which, damn, Tex sure did fuck things up in an instant.  He might be more enlightened with homosexuality, but he apparently clings to some sexist views, by clearly undermining Debbie and her worth.  And he payed for that!  Debbie doesn't mess around!

Oh, dammit, Bash!  You are really going to just keep making things worse for you and Rhonda, if you keep denying your real feelings.  I get his fear/denial, but man, he is probably going to end up regretting this.

Glad Keith is back, and he and Cheryl are on their way to patching things up.  I had wondered if adoption could be on the table, and that seems to be the case!

Surprised that Sam only got one scene here, but him officially adopting Justine was a sweet moment.

While I feel bad for Sandy and Bobby, it's not like we really got to know their characters well enough to make the loss of the hotel/casino that impactful.

Finally, Debbie offers Ruth a directing job, and Ruth... turns it down?  Is she still going to try and be an actress?  I think that time has passed and she really should have taken the offer.

Hopefully the show will be back, but considering how Netflix has gotten way more cancel happy (especially with shows in their third or fourth season) lately, I don't know what to think.

[dubbel zout]

6 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Finally, Debbie offers Ruth a directing job, and Ruth... turns it down?  Is she still going to try and be an actress?  I think that time has passed and she really should have taken the offer.

She'd just gotten turned down by Justine and Sam for the role in their movie, and that hurt was still fresh. I also think she feels that Debbie might be offering her the director job out of pity. I don't think that's true—Debbie isn't going to risk her business on someone she doesn't think is capable—but Ruth is feeling vulnerable about her acting career, so I can se her kind of stubbornly wanting to keep it going.

[Kostgard]

Man, I hope this show gets renewed. It gets Netflix Emmy attention, so maybe that makes them happy, but they have been very cancel-crazy lately, and I'm sure this cast is expensive.

But overall for this season, I'm glad to see how far Debbie and Ruth have gone in healing their relationship. This is so much better than the constant tension. But Ruth is still blind to the truth, and Debbie is too blunt about the truth that Ruth doesn't want to hear it from her. Ruth IS better suited for the director's chair. Just as Debbie is better suited as a producer.

I'm glad Carmen is striking out to do what will make her happy, but I do hope that if the show comes back, she does as well. I love her. Also glad to see Sheila spread her wings as well. 

I really feel sorry for Bash. He's not in a great place. Between the homophobia and the AIDS crisis, not a fun time to be gay, and layer in his conservative mother, and it's no wonder that he's a complete mess. Saddened but not surprised to see him race back into the closet - even deeper this time. I hope Rhonda is smart about it. She knows what is up. She knows that his proposal that they have kids is a terrible idea. I guess it will depends on which track she takes - she could continue down the path as basically the assistant who protects Bash from his worst impulses and manages his finances, etc for him, but understands this isn't a real marriage and doesn't even try on that front (beyond keeping his mother happy), or will she take Bash's mother's advice about "keep him interested" and just bow to what he wants, be it kids or whatever else he cooks up to avoid the truth.

[charliesan]

I get where Ruth was coming from, but... Grow up? I believe the show is portraying her as a capable actress, but nothing outstanding; I think this became clearer after we saw how Ruth immediately became intimidated after witnessing how an untrained Sheila allegedly eclipsed her. 

I think Ruth sees herself as a Meryl, but she should be auditioning for a Penny (from Big Bang Theory) role, which is nothing to be ashamed of. I agree with someone who pointed out how great she was as Liberty Belle.

But Ruth is self-centered and in many instances she's so immature that she doesn't see the big picture, hopefully by season 4 (given that Netflix doesn't cancel the show) I hope we see some growth from her. 

I do have to commend Alison Brie, in the hands of a less capable actress (and let's be honest, her natural charm which doesn't necessarily have to do with her acting skills) I would LOATH Ruth. 

[Robert Lynch]

I did not like this finale. Everything felt so up in the air lately. The only characters I like are Carmen, Sam, and Sheila. The rest could go fly a kite. I just didn't connect with them this season. I wish I did, but there was something missing. If renewed, they will have to make Ruth grow. She has been too stagnant this season.

[Brinny]

I'm not sure that I liked all the time jumps.

Also, I know that with the girls performing the same show in Vegas night after night, the audience (us) having to watch the same thing over would get stale, so they had to shake things up a bit, but would the Vegas viewing audience really find a GLOW Christmas Carol all that charming? The show previously aired on public access, right? So, it's not as if it had a wide viewing audience where people buying tickets for the show would have any sort of connection to the characters or their backstories or  anything.

I don't know. I just feel like if I went to see the Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling in Las Vegas, and instead I was treated to a badly acted and weirdly cast A Christmas Carol with very little actual wrestling, I would probably be confused and disappointed. (I should make it clear that as a viewer of the TV show GLOW, I did think it was cute.)

On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 10:26 PM, Miles said:

I don't think the show did want it to come off that way, but I really didn't like Arthie being bullied into saying that she's gay. I mean so what if she doesn't know or if she's Bi? What business is that of anybody else, even her girlfriend. She said she loved her and wanted to be with her. That should be enough, shouldn't it? That's some bullshit.

I agree.

I think you're right that that's probably not what was intended by the show, but it really came off that way. I initially thought maybe it was supposed to be a commentary/storyline on how there can be bi-erasure within the community, except then they had Arthie come out as gay.  So, I don't know. 

[DrSpaceman]

On ‎8‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 12:11 AM, kieyra said:

This was an odd season. I liked the individual episodes, and most stuff felt very in-character, but it was a different and more serious show. Especially without the wrestling to keep things lighthearted. 

The pacing and time jumps were strange, as was Marc Maron’s somewhat sidelined role. I didn’t realize how bad I wanted Sam and Ruth together until they were together for five whole minutes and then blew it up.

Debbie’s relationship with Toby Huss, and then striking out on her own reminded me of Joan’s last (older) suitor on Mad Men, and how she had to stand up to his attempts to put her into some kind of box. In both situations, these women who were tired of men calling the shots found what seemed like a reprieve with these older, wealthy guys who respected them for their brains AND their beauty, but then turned out to be the same old, same old. 

I did actually have the same thought about Debbie and Toby, but I disagree about Toby viewing Debbie in that manner.  He took her to a few dinners that were business meetings and she starts trying to tell him basically how to run his business and negotiate.  He has been doing it for decades and sure maybe she did understand more of what was happening than they gave her credit for.  However that by no means is the same as her being able to tell him he is low balling or how he should change his negotiation.  He probably was low balling for one.  That is what a buyer does with a business.  To me it came off not so much as him dismissing her ideas as he being a naïve know it all who thinks she can swoop right in and tell how do a deal.  That is really pretty insulting.  And there was never any indication that they were business partners somehow just because she went to some business dinners. 

But hey she got Bash to make a deal, took it from him.  Good for her.  I don't blame her for that, took advantage when she could. 

However I find the idea that she would somehow know how to do an accurate financial evaluate of a TV studio pretty hard to swallow.  And that has nothing to do with her being a woman.  It has to do with her having no experience in that area.  Producing a Vegas show does not make one an expert in TV studio valuations. 

It made her seem more petty to me than shrewd.  Seemed to me she wanted not just power but to stick it to her ex for daring to think that he as a multimillionaire experienced business man might know better than her how to negotiate a TV station deal. 

The season certainly didn't go where I thought it would, that  is for sure. 

Bash turned into a real asshole power hungry producer this season and no amount of sympathy over his plight of being a gay man in a conservative family really makes up for that

Ruth made the wrong decision.  She could direct the show and still try being an actress. 

Also didn't like Ruth and how she reacted to Sam telling her she didn't get the part.  What was he supposed to do?  Lead you on?  that would have been even worse. 

Surprised Keith is back, didn't see that coming either. 

[DrSpaceman]

On ‎8‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 4:04 PM, dubbel zout said:

"You're my girlfriend, not my partner." Ouch, Tex. Way to totally disrespect what Debbie has done for you. Good for her for buying the TV station out from under him.

Whoever predicted Keith and Cherry could adopt was spot on! Bravo.

Again, all she really did was go to some business dinners with him.  He was harsh in how he said it but what he said was true.    There was very little reason to think she should have some major input in how he manages a business deal based on the relationship that we saw. 

[kieyra]

Debbie has always been shown to have a head for the business side of things, since season one (when she didn’t accept their shitty contract). Sam called her out as getting fired from the soap opera (and as a reminder: she DOES know the TV business, from the inside, for X number of years) for having brains and too many opinions. Again, all season one stuff. In season two she and Bash were running game to drum up interest in the show to try to sell it, just as an example. And she had a cynical, weary knowledge of playing the “go along to get along” game of casual sexual harassment in Hollywood. 

If nothing else, the show wanted us to believe that Debbie does have a head for the business end of things AND that she’s sick of being dismissed as (blond, hot, mother, GIRLFRIEND, etc). 

If anything, I was disappointed that Tex knocked her back so casually and without a second thought. But that’s because I love Toby Huss. 

[Miles]

50 minutes ago, DrSpaceman said:

Again, all she really did was go to some business dinners with him.  He was harsh in how he said it but what he said was true.    There was very little reason to think she should have some major input in how he manages a business deal based on the relationship that we saw. 

It may have been true, that they had a purely romatic relationship, but that's not the relationship Debbie wanted. She didn't want to be armcandy, she wanted to be a partner, not a business partner, but somebody who is valued for her brain, not just her look, and someboy whom their romantic partner would run things by.

Tex revealed that he didn't get her afterall and I liked Debbies reaction to that.

And like @kieyra already said. Debbie does have a head and the gut instinct for this business. He could have profited from her inside. He just dismissed her off hand.

4 hours ago, Brinny said:

I don't know. I just feel like if I went to see the Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling in Las Vegas, and instead I was treated to a badly acted and weirdly cast A Christmas Carol with very little actual wrestling, I would probably be confused and disappointed. (I should make it clear that as a viewer of the TV show GLOW, I did think it was cute.)

Yeah it was very weird. Especially since they were doing versions of their regular characters. I would have understood it more if they had straight up done a christmas story with wrestling interludes.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Miles

[DrSpaceman]

9 hours ago, Miles said:

It may have been true, that they had a purely romatic relationship, but that's not the relationship Debbie wanted. She didn't want to be armcandy, she wanted to be a partner, not a business partner, but somebody who is valued for her brain, not just her look, and someboy whom their romantic partner would run things by.

Did she tell him that, or did she just assume he should know that he should that?  Did she ever bring up the fact she had been looking into the deal and thought he should approach it differently? 

This also reminds me of another Mad Men episode where Joan works with Harry when he is first put in charge of the TV accounts, or some such position.  She fills in reviewing the spots and the commercials because he needs the help, but then he hires someone else for the permanent position after a short period of time.  She is upset because she thought she would be at least considered for the job.  However at the time, she was the head secretary and she never actually tells him she would like to have the job on a permanent basis.  She views it as being dismissed for being a woman, but she never actually asked for the job or actually said anything to Harry about being willing to do it full time.  I recall a huge discussion about this an another TV websight at the time. 

I view this as the same situation.  Debbie's approach here was more coming at him by implying he didn't know what he was doing and suddenly wanting a say in his business with seemingly no indication beforehand to indicate this was the case.  And based on that one flawed interaction she feels a need to screw him over in the deal.  

[kieyra]

Yes, 'she just didn't ask' or 'she just didn't ask right' is a pretty common justification for things like, for example, the gender pay gap.

[dubbel zout]

In my mind Debbie is Tess McGill's predecessor: She's got a mind for business and a bod for sin. Woe to anyone who underestimates her.

[Robert Lynch]

That's why I dislike these will they or won't they scenarios. What worked in I Dreamed of Jeanie doesn't really work with Sam and Ruth. If renewed, they better get rid of that storyline. That would bring the show down if they continue that route. While I am in for another season, I just hope for something different for a change. 

[DrSpaceman]

4 hours ago, kieyra said:

Yes, 'she just didn't ask' or 'she just didn't ask right' is a pretty common justification for things like, for example, the gender pay gap.

She didn't ask at all, in either situation, with Debbie or Joan on Mad Men in the situation mentioned.  They both just expected that it should be assumed what they want. 

And especially in Debbie's case, that is a pretty tall assumption. 

[CletusMusashi]

Holy crap that was a lot of Christmas. I mean, yeah, going in to it I knew from the title that it was gonna be a Christmas ep, but that was just painful.

[Maysie]

I'm in the minority, I think, but I kind of liked the Christmas show. Again, they've been doing the same damn thing night after night, so I can see where mixing it up for the last night would be fun and I liked seeing when they threw in some wrestling. I doubt anyone in the audience would be horribly disappointed - it sure didn't look like a full house.

As for Ruth declining Debbie's offer...it left me wondering what she heard from the psychic, and if what the psychic said even mattered to Ruth.

The thing with Debbie and Tex is that we don't really know what kind of discussions they've had about her ambition, etc. We learned in the time jump (which I liked) that the relationship progressed to a level that she's spending significant amounts of time with him, to where she uses his driver and I'm assuming he helps provide her with child care. On one hand, the fact that she didn't leave Vegas but chose to bring her kid out with her so she could keep on doing her job is a clear indication that she's committed to this career. On the other hand, she basically admitted to Bobby that she's really neglected "producing" the last six months and had been more wrapped up in her personal life than her professional advancement. If nothing else, there have been mixed signals and maybe Debbie didn't even know what she wanted until there was the opportunity to try something different. The show has been on autopilot for close to a year; everyone seems to have become professionally complacent in some form or another, despite their personal development/issues.

Generally, I liked the season. I didn't know how they'd approach Vegas but I thought the season was well done. There's only so much learning to wrestle and wrestling they can do - more of the same of the first two seasons would have been boring - and I thought Vegas was a good venue for allowing the characters to develop on a more personal level. It's a bit ironic that out of all the main characters, Ruth, the one who was really the impetus to making the whole concept work in its early stages is the one who seems stuck where she was to begin with.

And I'm sorry, but Tex is always going to be the Wiz - nobody beats him!

[tennisgurl]

I admit that I loved the Christmas Carol show, Scrounge wrestling the ghosts was hilariously ridiculous, and I LOVED Carmen as the Ghost of Christmas Future. She was giving some serious Undertaker vibes! Or maybe I am just happy to see some actual wrestling, which we have hardly seen this season. 

Its been a weird season, I enjoyed it for the most part because I love these characters, but it was certainly my least favorite of the three. It felt kind of disjointed, like everyone was kind of stuck in their own stories or in the background, and we hardly saw them interacting, which is some of the best parts of the show. I liked a lot of individual episodes and scenes, but on a whole, it wasn't as strong of a season as I would have liked. 

Pairing Bash and Rhonda was a bad idea in my opinion, as was making Bash turn into a huge asshole for most of the season just kind of because. I feel really bad for him, because being gay in the 80s is tough, especially when your from a conservative family, and his scenes in this episode with Debbie when he was breaking were his best of the season, but him being increasingly dick-ish didn't really seem attached to that a lot of the time, it just seemed to exist to move Debbie towards buying this network and create more drama. 

Its like Ruth deciding not to take up Debbie's offer, or her and Sam still not being together, it just seems to exist to create more drama. The show is really lucky that Allison Brie is so lovable and charismatic, or Ruth would be a serious pain a lot of times. 

So, are we going to talk about that one episode where Debbie was bulimic? We gonna do anything with that? 

Its not a bad season exactly, but it felt off to me, and not just because of the change of location. It just felt like they weren't sure what to do with any character that wasn't Ruth or Debbie, and while most everyone got a few good scenes or episodes (Arthie and Carmen probably got the biggest arcs of the women) I kept wanting more, or to explore wrestling more. Which is, you know, what the show is about.

[Blakeston]

Did anyone else notice the continuity error with Arthie’s rainbow headband? She had it on upside-down at first (the red is always on top on the rainbow flag), which seemed appropriate for her newly out character. But then a moment later, she had it on correctly.

[Loandbehold]

On 8/12/2019 at 3:25 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Finally, Debbie offers Ruth a directing job, and Ruth... turns it down?  Is she still going to try and be an actress?  I think that time has passed and she really should have taken the offer.

On 8/12/2019 at 10:17 AM, dubbel zout said:

She'd just gotten turned down by Justine and Sam for the role in their movie, and that hurt was still fresh. I also think she feels that Debbie might be offering her the director job out of pity. I don't think that's true—Debbie isn't going to risk her business on someone she doesn't think is capable—but Ruth is feeling vulnerable about her acting career, so I can se her kind of stubbornly wanting to keep it going.

That along w/ Debbie's subtle, "you're a giant acting failure who has absolutely zero chances of getting any sort of real role" pitch for Ruth to direct the show might be why Ruth turned down the offer. She will have time to think about things over the holidays and might contact Debbie after New Year's.

On 8/12/2019 at 5:14 PM, Kostgard said:

I really feel sorry for Bash. He's not in a great place. Between the homophobia and the AIDS crisis, not a fun time to be gay, and layer in his conservative mother, and it's no wonder that he's a complete mess. Saddened but not surprised to see him race back into the closet - even deeper this time. I hope Rhonda is smart about it. She knows what is up. She knows that his proposal that they have kids is a terrible idea. I guess it will depends on which track she takes - she could continue down the path as basically the assistant who protects Bash from his worst impulses and manages his finances, etc for him, but understands this isn't a real marriage and doesn't even try on that front (beyond keeping his mother happy), or will she take Bash's mother's advice about "keep him interested" and just bow to what he wants, be it kids or whatever else he cooks up to avoid the truth.

I found Bash's storyline both sad and interesting. He's almost like a groundhog - peeking out his hole to see if he can come out as gay, then immediately hiding again. As for Rhonda, yeah, it's not going to go well for her. But, she can't divorce Bash for now b/c she married him for a green card. You need that marriage to stay intact for more than just one year or else she's right back where she started. And, I have a feeling that Birdie would be the first to contact immigration if Rhonda left Bash.

I thought Carmen was MVP this season, which is saying something since she never really had a story of her own. She was almost always supporting someone else - Cherry, Rhonda, Tamme, but always being everyone's rock. It was nice to see her be the driving force behind "A [GLOW] Christmas Carol."

They definitely dropped some plots, like Debbie's bulimia (as someone mentioned upthread). And Sam's health was just mentioned in passing when he told Justine that he may not be around as long as either of them expected. 

I have never, and still do not want to see Sam and Ruth get together. If we get a season 4, please keep them romantically apart. 

[txhorns79]

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So, are we going to talk about that one episode where Debbie was bulimic? We gonna do anything with that? 

I presume Debbie's bulimia spent the last few episodes watching her son off screen. 

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Its like Ruth deciding not to take up Debbie's offer,

Eh, I was okay with Ruth rejecting the offer.  Debbie really needed to wait until she had time to make the offer in a way where it didn't seem insulting.  As it was, all Ruth heard was that Debbie thought Ruth was a failed actress who needed to be saved from her own bad choices. 

[peachmangosteen]

This was hands-down my fave season. The wresting was always my least fave part of the show so I really appreciated how little of it there was this season lol.

[dubbel zout]

I liked seeing the women learn how to wrestle and grow confident in their skills, as well as finding their characters (for the most part), but the actual performance wrestling is something I don't need to see every episode. 

[iMonrey]

Did I miss something? Did they extend the run of Glow in Vegas? Because the last thing I remember, the run was extended thru the end of the year, and this was the end of the year.

I'm in agreement with most over their frustration with Ruth. She was handed a golden opportunity on a silver platter (if you'll forgive the mixed metaphors) and turned it down for no good reason I can think of. There's nothing preventing her from going on auditions while serving as director on a new TV show, and in fact building up one's resume is never a bad idea.

Quote

would the Vegas viewing audience really find a GLOW Christmas Carol all that charming? The show previously aired on public access, right? So, it's not as if it had a wide viewing audience where people buying tickets for the show would have any sort of connection to the characters or their backstories or  anything.

That was my problem with the conceit as well. Also? The dramatic reunion of Keith and Cherry. I get that the ladies of Glow and the people who watch this show found it heartwarming, but the Vegas audience would have been baffled since none of them knew who they were.

Quote

1 quibble, Top Gun came out in 1986, there wouldn’t have been filming it at the time Sam and Justine were at the studio.

Sam and Justine were at Tri-Star pictures. Top Gun was a Paramount studio film. I don't think the random guys in flight suits they passed were meant to represent Top Gun specifically, I think it was just an easy short-hand to identify them as movie extras. 

[DoctorAtomic]

57 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

There's nothing preventing her from going on auditions while serving as director on a new TV show, and in fact building up one's resume is never a bad idea.

They'll be in Los Angeles too. So it's not like she will have to drive the three hours for Justine's audition. Granted, Debbie shouldn't have said 'acting would have happened by now' (though true) and presented it better.

What bugs is that Ruth directed the opening theme to the show (in the mall). It was good, Sam knew it, and she was happy with her accomplishment. Not wanting to capitalize on that baffles me. *And* the character she created was basically top billing with Debbie, and I think Ruth had a hand in the Liberty Belle concept. Debbie is offering her the chance to create a whole cast.

So what if she only gets this new job because of Debbie? She only got the audition because of Sam. That's how it works.

I can get someone like Carmen wanting to move on because of her family ties and upbringing.

It's a smart move on TPTBs to end the show on xmas. You can do a short time jump next season to allow Ruth to reconsider.

[txhorns79]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Did I miss something? Did they extend the run of Glow in Vegas? Because the last thing I remember, the run was extended thru the end of the year, and this was the end of the year.

I don't remember anyone saying the show had been extended, but it must have been as no one acted like it was ending, Carmen made it clear that she was quitting and one of the characters made a comment about seeing everyone in 1987. 

8 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

So what if she only gets this new job because of Debbie? She only got the audition because of Sam. That's how it works.

I think the difference is that to take the job Debbie was offering, was to essentially admit that what Debbie said, about Ruth having no real future as an actress, was correct. 

[DoctorAtomic]

That's short sighted on Ruth's part. And she knows auditions have a high rejection rate. So, in the meantime, she can direct while she auditions.

[Megan]

On 8/11/2019 at 12:33 PM, dubbel zout said:

Why does it matter if Sheila dyed her real hair? It wasn’t long enough to be her wolf hair anyway.

Keeping your hair platinum is a lot of work, and to me, it didn't fit into her character to be maintaining that prior to letting go the wolf.

My preferred hair is (short and) platinum but it's really hard on your hair and takes a shit ton of upkeep. I've taken the last 6 months to give my hair  and my wallet a break.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Megan

[Clanstarling]

On 8/10/2019 at 1:04 PM, dubbel zout said:

"You're my girlfriend, not my partner." Ouch, Tex. Way to totally disrespect what Debbie has done for you. Good for her for buying the TV station out from under him.

Like that old saying "don't get mad, get even."

On 8/11/2019 at 3:51 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

I can't imagine she wouldn't want to direct. And while it might not be 'her catapult', it's still steady work where she's in charge and she can use it to step up to other things.

I had some trouble with that myself - in season 1 she naturally took to directing, and was crushed when Sam smacked her down on that front. She showed she had real promise. I think, as some have said, her reaction was more the combination of Debbie being brutally honest (and yet loving) about her likelihood of getting work as an actress. I mean, if you can't get a role in a friend's movie - who are you going to convince? (that being said, they really couldn't at least have given her SOME small role for her resume?)

On 8/14/2019 at 10:14 AM, DrSpaceman said:

She didn't ask at all, in either situation, with Debbie or Joan on Mad Men in the situation mentioned.  They both just expected that it should be assumed what they want. 

And especially in Debbie's case, that is a pretty tall assumption. 

Actually, I don't think it's that tall of an assumption on her part. Tex took her to meetings/dinners where she was the sole woman, (no wives or other mistresses at the table) and the men (including Tex) seemed to enjoy her manner and respect her opinions. She showed a knack for understanding the business during those conversations, and Tex clearly saw her as an asset. His request for her to go to more dinners/meetings wasn't given in a way that seemed that all he wanted was arm candy. He could have used one of the showgirls from Rhapsody if that's all he wanted. He went specifically for a woman who was savvy, had a head on her shoulders, and could clearly hold her own.

That being said, Debbie definitely overstepped. But I think she did so because she thought she and Tex were in synch, and she was enjoyed getting what she saw as the respect she had definitely not been getting previously. It was an understandable shock to her when he completely dismissed her, and though I was surprised that she screwed him over, I pretty much loved it.

Bash's story brought me to tears. He's been a pretty insufferable jerk for a good bit of the season, but I found the struggle between what he knows in his heart that he wants for himself, and what he feels he needs to be for the people he loves, and his desperate fear of dying like Florian incredibly moving. I wasn't too surprised that he lied to himself (and Rhonda) again.

I was moved to tears again when Cherry and Keith reunited.

I didn't choke up, but I kind of gasped when Sam obliquely mentioned the possibility of his death when he was making sure Justine signed the adoption papers. It didn't register for Justine, though, because there's no reason she would even think he might die soon.

This season has been a little spotty for me, but I still love it and will definitely watch it if it gets a new season. If it doesn't, I think this was a fairly decent series ender.

[benteen]

Ruth really made a foolish mistake by turning down the directing gig.  She was right to point out this was Debbie's dream and not hers and it was dropped on her very quickly.  But the benefits of being the director of GLOW would have a lot of benefits for her.  Legit directing experience, a well-paying job where she wouldn't have to worry about money, the chance to make contacts in the business through the network and a chance to be involved in other projects on said network.  No one says she has to remain the director of GLOW the rest of her life and she could still go out on auditions.  A lot of directors in real life continued to pursue acting roles (Sydney Pollack, Garry Marshall, John Houston come to mind).

Debbie was right about the state of Ruth's career...Ruth had never even been on the highway.  Ruth couldn't even get a role in a film where the director was in love with her and the writer was a friend of hers.  I know Debbie dropped this on Ruth at the last minute but turning down a sweet gig like that was incredibly short-sighted on her part.

I like where Debbie's future is headed as President of the Network.  I'm sorry that the relationship with Tex is over.  Tex seemed like a pretty open guy when it came to the AIDS benefit so it felt like they just dropped this "you're not my partner" thing all of a sudden.

I enjoyed them doing A Christmas Carol a lot and it is the kind of weird thing 80s wrestling would do (I remember an old episode of WWF's Tuesday Night Titans kind of doing that).  It was fun and it was nice in a season that featured so little wrestling.  Carmen really do have a knack for the business and did a good impression of The Undertaker in her match against Ruth.  I can definitely sympathize with her wanting to do so actual wrestling although if this does follow 1980s wrestling (and there have been plenty of references to the actual WWF and their wrestlers) women's wrestling was fazed out by the big promotions in the late-80s.  It would pick up again a few years later but not get particularly big again until the late-90s.

I enjoyed the season.  I had some issues, scattershot storylines, some overly preachy storylines, a lack of wrestling and they didn't quite stick the landing.  But I enjoyed it and really want to see a Season 4.

[txhorns79]

5 hours ago, benteen said:

But the benefits of being the director of GLOW would have a lot of benefits for her. 

I don't think Ruth would be a director of GLOW, would she?  My impression was that Debbie was offering her a director position at the new network, presumably for the new lady wrestling show they would produce? 

On 8/25/2019 at 4:13 PM, Clanstarling said:

Actually, I don't think it's that tall of an assumption on her part. Tex took her to meetings/dinners where she was the sole woman, (no wives or other mistresses at the table) and the men (including Tex) seemed to enjoy her manner and respect her opinions. She showed a knack for understanding the business during those conversations, and Tex clearly saw her as an asset. His request for her to go to more dinners/meetings wasn't given in a way that seemed that all he wanted was arm candy. He could have used one of the showgirls from Rhapsody if that's all he wanted. He went specifically for a woman who was savvy, had a head on her shoulders, and could clearly hold her own.

I mean, how long were he and Debbie together?  Was it more than a few months?  While he clearly valued her opinion, it's probably a little fast on her part to presume he saw her as a business, as well as a romantic, partner.  I can understand her feelings, and not wanting to be seen as just arm candy who is there to just get Tex through a boring dinner, but presumably, he's been in his business for years and it's his money and reputation at stake, not Debbie's.  She saw herself as his partner, when the reality was the risk was all his. 

[benteen]

Whether it was GLOW (it was) or something else, it was a sweet gig that Ruth should have taken.

Edited August 30, 2019 by benteen

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I mean, how long were he and Debbie together?  Was it more than a few months?  While he clearly valued her opinion, it's probably a little fast on her part to presume he saw her as a business, as well as a romantic, partner.  I can understand her feelings, and not wanting to be seen as just arm candy who is there to just get Tex through a boring dinner, but presumably, he's been in his business for years and it's his money and reputation at stake, not Debbie's.  She saw herself as his partner, when the reality was the risk was all his. 

I think, given the time jump, that they'd been together for six months at least - and maybe closer to 9.  Enough time, and enough business dinners and discussions to believe they had a meeting of the minds and weren't a mere romance, but a real relationship. Sure, she overstepped. Partly because she thought she was in a relationship with someone who truly respected her mind and abilities.

I'm not sure why he'd think she wasn't paying attention at those meetings - when she clearly was - or would think discussing business was out of bounds when he brought her to dinners that clearly weren't meant to be couples dinners. If Tex didn't want to mix business and pleasure, he should never have taken her to the dinners. But he was happy to use her presence and quick witted conversation for business.

As I see it, Debbie's response wasn't just about just about hurt feelings - it was also about the lack of respect for her mind,  him underestimating her ability - which had already been a sore point with Bash and Sam,. So she got even in a way that I, for one, totally loved.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Clanstarling

[DoctorAtomic]

Debbie was offering Ruth the chance to direct the new lady wrestling show and have creative control over creating new characters.