S09.E03: Don't Kiss On the First Wedding Night

[Soup333]

7 minutes ago, Retired at last said:

Like most of you, also tired of the "virgin" element constantly in our faces. Other than that, she does seem to be comfortable being close to her husband and isn't as awkward getting in bed with him as I thought she might be. 

I found it interesting that Iris was so affectionate with Keith and didn't seem to be bothered with him touching her. Touching and rubbing his legs before they got in bed and then she snuggled right up with him when they had that stupid secret talk. I don't expect that just because she is a virgin in fact that she would be cautious about physical touch but she's leagues further than Deonna at this point (who is also a defacto virgin maybe?) . I was happy to see that Deonna put her arm around Greg after he put his around her shoulders. She may just be slow (very) to warm up and it's good that he's patient. I'm hoping that she actually gives this a chance and doesn't shut him down at every turn.

[Empress1]

42 minutes ago, topanga said:

Yeah. The previews and the recaps need to be trimmed. A full five minutes at the beginning of the episode was dedicated to, "This is what this show is about. And this is what happened. And then this happened." We know, we know. And even if we've forgotten a few details, it's not hard to catch up when we see what's happening now. I know the show has to create 1 1/2 hours of content, but Jeez. 

I actually think there's no reason for the show to be 90 minutes. It could be an hour and you'd end up with the same amount of worthwhile content. There's a LOT of filler.

[topanga]

9 minutes ago, aphroditewitch said:

Deonna is getting a raw deal. I have a feeling that she has dry humor and it is not playing as well on screen as it does in person. The show already decided they were going to make her look uptight and they are going to stick with it all season no matter what. 

I'm sure the editing is playing a role. But I wish Deonna would make an effort to be nicer to Greg. She's full of sarcasm and dry humor, but I don't see her displaying any warmth or kindness when she's with Greg. She rarely even asks him about himself. Unlike Greg, who's making a big effort to get to know Deonna so he can understand who she is and respond to her needs.  

[humbleopinion]

Keith is on the show to get publicity for his budding music career, he said he was recruited in an online interview....MAFS production reached out to him...

Iris is a puzzle..there are plenty of religious men who also save themselves for marriage and she could have had her pick of them....

Obviously, she wanted to be "The Virgin" in the relationship and not necessarily married to one.

Was she looking for a more experienced husband... a steady hand so to speak?

Do not think Keith fully appreciates the enormity of the gift and sacrifice of her holding out..

 Definite disconnect of their perceived value of Iris' virginity...

Iris is giving Keith her greatest gift and Keith would have been just as happy with being the next guy and not necessarily the first....

Keith is thinking...Okay,  Iris, you kept yourself pure for religious reasons but do we need to make a big deal of this?

When will my music stylings be showcased on our segments?....

Keith's thought process....Iris just delayed the inevitable, let's do it and move forward....

Iris' thought process...I want everything to be perfect...the moon and stars' aligned perfectly and me getting caught up in Keith's loving energy....she has completely romanticized the whole scenario....hope she isn't too disappointed....

Edited June 27, 2019 by humbleopinion

[Empress1]

6 minutes ago, topanga said:

I'm sure the editing is playing a role. But I wish Deonna would make an effort to be nicer to Greg. She's full of sarcasm and dry humor, but I don't see her displaying any warmth or kindness when she's with Greg. She rarely even asks him about himself. Unlike Greg, who's making a big effort to get to know Deonna so he can understand who she is and respond to her needs.  

Yeah, there's a way to be sarcastic and still be warm. Deonna doesn't come across as warm or open - I think in the preview, Greg says something like "She has walls up" and I can already see that with her. Which on some level I get, but there will come a point where she'll need to start taking them down if they're going to get anywhere. We've seen this in lots of other seasons. 

[Neurochick]

5 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Yeah, there's a way to be sarcastic and still be warm. Deonna doesn't come across as warm or open - I think in the preview, Greg says something like "She has walls up" and I can already see that with her. Which on some level I get, but there will come a point where she'll need to start taking them down if they're going to get anywhere. We've seen this in lots of other seasons. 

Because Deonna dated only herself for ten years, she never had an adult romantic relationship.  It's like asking someone who has never walked before to run a marathon.  She doesn't know the dance steps and it shows.  I don't think she's a bad person because you don't know what you don't know.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Neurochick

[humbleopinion]

Greg will have to win her trust and just let her jibber jabber her nervousness in front of the cameras and production crew.

She may be more at ease when it is just the two of them....

[configdotsys]

A few notes on this snoozefest of an episode:

Elizabeth’s father is such a creeper.

Jamie looked like an ass in that hat he was wearing on the trip.

Amber speaks like a teenager and is way too smothering of Matt.

Poor Greg. Deonna is going to be a handful. 

Iris comes across as very high strung and Keith quiet and more reserved.

The preview for next week was better than this episode.

[aphroditewitch]

15 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Yeah, there's a way to be sarcastic and still be warm. Deonna doesn't come across as warm or open - I think in the preview, Greg says something like "She has walls up" and I can already see that with her. Which on some level I get, but there will come a point where she'll need to start taking them down if they're going to get anywhere. We've seen this in lots of other seasons. 

Even if her walls come down, it will never air. She could be sweet as pie to Greg the majority of the time but anything that can be spun to be remotely negative is what will air. The misogynoir on this show is just so blatant.  

[Soup333]

5 hours ago, ShowFan said:

Toxic dependency. Failing her as an independent adult. Sabotaging her relationship. And we don’t even know what else may be there. Of course there are worse cases ...abusers, drug addicts etc. But he is way up there too

Thanks for elaborating. I wonder why their relationship is like this. What happened? Is E significantly younger than her siblings? Is her father just like this with all of his children? I get that she's the baby of the family but anyone with eyes can see this woman is no filly. She's definitely old enough to be handling her own affairs. I really think they all believe their relationship is cute - the mom seems resigned to it. The father keeps saying he's supportive but I see it differently. Him going on at length about how he was bothered by them kissing and the husband can't have his daughter's heart because it will always be his. That's disturbing.

[OnTime]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I don't get why Keith and Iris are on this show.  Both of them are gorgeous; their wedding photo looked like something from a bridal magazine.  

Fifteen minutes of fame??

[2727]

48 minutes ago, Retired at last said:

Amber and Matt are kind of boring to me. She is too anxious to be all over him, which is not bad, but she is pushing too hard too soon.

This benefits no one, but I can't help but speculate and re-mix couples in my head. Like, wouldn't it have been nice for generous, supportive Bobby to be matched with someone like outgoing Amber who is quick to compliment and appreciate him? 

[Neurochick]

2 minutes ago, 2727 said:

This benefits no one, but I can't help but speculate and re-mix couples in my head. Like, wouldn't it have been nice for generous, supportive Bobby to be matched with someone like outgoing Amber who is quick to compliment and appreciate him? 

I see your point, but then again, Bobby might become bored by Amber.  

[Gem 10]

2 hours ago, topanga said:

That's when I started to warm up to Jamie. When Big Red's dad was asking him all kinds of crazy questions like, "Are you going to take our last name?"* Jamie very calmly but confidently said, "Nope." He managed to remain calm and lighthearted and but made it clear to the dad that he wasn't intimidated by him. 

*I don't care if men or women choose to take their spouse's last name or not. But that should've been a discussion between Jamie and Elizabeth, not Jamie and Elizabeth's dad. 

Matt is definitely an introvert and hard to read at times. But he was more animated and expressive before the wedding day, which is why I think Amber is draining his energy. And maybe his enthusiasm. Or maybe he's simply tired of all the socialization, and he needs time alone to refuel. Which he will NOT have with Amber the cameras surrounding him. 

Yep, I agree, but he signed up for this and the money probably, so he has to go thru the motions and bite the bullit.  He’s a quiet guy and she’s chatty and hyper, and short. Lol.

[PityFree]

 At a certain point virginity becomes less of a gift and more of a burden.  I don’t think Keith wants the sexual act to have the life altering meaning that it will have if he has sex with Iris.  Is he going to end up being the one always initiating sex? answering all of her questions? Has she ever had an orgasm? Is Iris going to be the type of woman to put the responsibility for her orgasm on him?  What about different sexual activities?  Is she willing to participate in oral sex? Different positions? We won’t know how much of the burden will be on Keith until we know what Iris’s attitude is towards sex though (I.e., does she think sex is “dirty”?).

[LuvMyShows]

4 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Deonna is an armadillo in a clam shell surrounded by a minefield....

Great description!

14 hours ago, PityFree said:

The new expert lady is terrible at reading her cue cards.

And her bright pink one-sided ruffle dress is god-awful!

[Empress1]

9 minutes ago, PityFree said:

 At a certain point virginity becomes less of a gift and more of a burden.  I don’t think Keith wants the sexual act to have the life altering meaning that it will have if he has sex with Iris.

In Keith's shoes, I would feel tremendous pressure. If they sleep together, say, in week 3 and then by decision day he wants out, there will be so many outcries of "but she gave him her virginity!"

Edited June 27, 2019 by Empress1

[configdotsys]

15 hours ago, PityFree said:

Ewww. Matt is a mumbler. Very annoying.

I pick up a street-ish way combined with mumbling.

15 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Deonna and Greg: I at 69 years of age and over 40 years of marriage have never used a bathroom simultaneously with a man.  N to the HELL NO!

Same! Hell to the no indeed.

15 hours ago, Mercolleen said:

People brushing their teeth make me gag.

Agreed. And Elizabeth was using a Sonicare-type brush but using it manually. It looked weird to me. 

3 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

I mean really.  Do women really wear running shorts and T-shirts to bed when married?

I do and see nothing wrong with that.

2 hours ago, 2727 said:

Nobody is ever going to measure up to the last person Deonna dated.

Greg was being so playful and cute with his "smitten" comments and she shot him down like a drone over foreign air space.

I really wish the producers would let me enjoy the wedding and honeymoon episodes in peace without showing upcoming scenes of arguments, tears, and walk-outs. I'd like to bask in some happy moments between the couples in ignorance of how quickly they deteriorate. It harshes my mellow!

Deonna also goes into this voice that would drive me up the wall. She did it when Greg was putting his number in her phone and again when asking him about the meeting with her family. She seems the type that will never be happy. Nothing will ever be enough. Greg will pay for the sins of her teenage romance that soured. She has zero adult relationship experience so she's trapped in that "desperate for attention but only the kind I want when I want it and it better be exactly what I want or there'll be hell to pay but understand that I don't really know what I want because I have no relationship experience, so you better figure it out" stage of expecting Greg to be a mind reader. And telling someone that they are not allowed to use certain words because you don't like them? Go away. 

2 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

I get what you are saying, but I dress for myself as I like pretty nitegowns and sets.  Not that they should dress sexy on t.v., but something appropriate and cute.  They wear bikinis on the beach and what’s more scanty than that?

I dress for myself too. I like shorts and tees. So I wear those.

Edited June 27, 2019 by configdotsys
fixed a dropped line

[Gem 10]

2 hours ago, 2727 said:

Nobody is ever going to measure up to the last person Deonna dated.

Greg was being so playful and cute with his "smitten" comments and she shot him down like a drone over foreign air space.

I really wish the producers would let me enjoy the wedding and honeymoon episodes in peace without showing upcoming scenes of arguments, tears, and walk-outs. I'd like to bask in some happy moments between the couples in ignorance of how quickly they deteriorate. It harshes my mellow!

This show is two thirds repeat and one third new material.  Then, there’s commercials, so it’s like one eighth new.

[Ilovepie]

3 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Do women really wear running shorts and T-shirts to bed when married?

Yep. My sleepwear look is Walmart leggings and one of a selection of Disneyland T-shirts. Always has been. And I've been married for 21 years.

Oh Elizabeth. I can't decide whether I am impressed at her boldness to just disrobe on camera, or embarrassed for her. Despite that, as much as it pains me to say, I would rather see someone like her that's all in and trying than someone like Deonna who is so uptight and shut down. As we have seen over and over on this show, uptight people are not good candidates for this. At all. And Deonna wasn't ready for this, even more so than Iris. I feel sorry for Greg - he seems so nice and definitely deserves someone nicer than he got. And I think it's going to get old that every time he questions her, she resorts to "No Judgement". What a cop out.

I couldn't believe Elizabeth's father. What a creepy tool. How dare he ask Jamie to change his last name? His head is going to explode when he sees how is daughter actually behaves. That is some next level weird codependency right there. Iris might be a daddy's girl, but Elizabeth's relationship with her dad goes beyond that. It's not right.

I really, really, really am tired of the virgin thing. Please show, move on.

No thoughts about Matt and Amber. Just waiting for the drama........

[PityFree]

As I recall, sweet, handsome Bobby loved women sleeping in shorts and t-shirts.

I sleep in shorts and t-shirts. It’s comfy. Not ripped or stained stuff though.

[islandgal140]

If there is a pornhub category for 'milfs off their meds' Beth would be its star. The show really had to blur out her naughty bits on two separate occasions in a single episode.  I don't per se dislike Beth (hell, she makes for good tv) but damn her energy is just so frenetic it would make me nervous and uncomfortable to be in her presence.

Matt's family situation is just so suspect to me. So he has always been so super close to them, talked to mom daily and dad weekly and now since the divorce he hasn't talked or interacted with anyone? Now things are "oh so toxic" you can't even have any immediate or extended family around? Right or wrong, during many divorces, kids pick a side, but to claim a complete breakdown of all communication with the WHOLE FAMILY because of a divorce just seems highly, highly unusual.  He doesn't speak to his siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, nothing?? What the hell were the grounds for this divorce?

Why is it that the Ambers on this show don't have any chill? Amber's thirst for Matt makes me cringe in my own damn living room. 

I feel like Deonna pulled the biggest bait and switch I can recall in my time watching this show. The 1st two episodes she really did seem fun, kinda bubbly and showed signs of having a sense of humor. Hell, I thought Greg would be the uptight one. My, my how the tables have turned. I see a lot of posters making comparisons to Jasmine of last season, but I think Deonna is worse. 

Iris and Keith really are a beautiful couple. Mr Island calls them Target models. I say why not something more high end? Like at least Macy's? He says because they are on this mess of a show. I can't argue with that. I don't know why 2 such beautimous people would trust those chucklehead "therapists" to match them. These "therapists" have had more seasons than they have had successful couples. Nine seasons but Six "successful" marriages, one of which is Shawniece and Jephte LOL! Nothing to brag about. 

[red12]

2 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Keith is on the show to get publicity for his budding music career, he said he was recruited in an online interview....MAFS production reached out to him...

Iris is a puzzle..there are plenty of religious men who also save themselves for marriage and she could have had her pick of them....

Obviously, she wanted to be "The Virgin" in the relationship and not necessarily married to one.

Was she looking for a more experienced husband... a steady hand so to speak?

Do not think Keith fully appreciates the enormity of the gift and sacrifice of her holding out..

 Definite disconnect of their perceived value of Iris' virginity...

Iris is giving Keith her greatest gift and Keith would have been just as happy with being the next guy and not necessarily the first....

Keith is thinking...Okay,  Iris, you kept yourself pure for religious reasons but do we need to make a big deal of this?

When will my music stylings be showcased on our segments?....

Keith's thought process....Iris just delayed the inevitable, let's do it and move forward....

Iris' thought process...I want everything to be perfect...the moon and stars' aligned perfectly and me getting caught up in Keith's loving energy....she has completely romanticized the whole scenario....hope she isn't too disappointed....

I am trying to ask this in the most non-sarcastic way possible. Do you really mean virginity is Iris's greatest gift?

[Jack Sampson]

14 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

Oh Elizabeth. I can't decide whether I am impressed at her boldness to just disrobe on camera, or embarrassed for her. Despite that, as much as it pains me to say, I would rather see someone like her that's all in and trying than someone like Deonna who is so uptight and shut down. As we have seen over and over on this show, uptight people are not good candidates for this. At all. And Deonna wasn't ready for this, even more so than Iris. I feel sorry for Greg - he seems so nice and definitely deserves someone nicer than he got. And I think it's going to get old that every time he questions her, she resorts to "No Judgement". What a cop out.

I doubt either couple has a chance, but at least Elizabeth can have fun.  When guys go on a vacation honeymoon, this is the girl they're hoping will show up - cool with nudity and hypersexual.

[humbleopinion]

Pardon my  ill chosen words...greatest is not correct...

Iris' virginity has been something she has "saved" for 27 years and her Father has "protected" for as long...

Iris has made it clear that her virginity is only for her husband.

 Perhaps  cherished is a better choice of words....

[Elizzikra]

Quote

I DID like when Jamie asked his wife what her father calls her and then quickly said that he would call her Elizabeth. Good for him. He sees the need to try to make a distinction if their relationship has a chance. Also, it is extremely creepy that she has that much open need for sex and has had those discussions with her father. I cannot imagine what he will be thinking when he sees these shows - he may have a heart attack. And I don't think they have to worry about losing their family name - Elizabeth will not have a new name for long.

I liked that Jamie asked but I hated Elizabeth's response - that what he called her was his choice. I'm an Elizabeth. I've had people call me all sorts of Elizabeth-nicknames, not at my invitation. I'm not a bitch about it but I'm no more likely to respond to "hey Bitsy" than I am to respond to "hey Bob." I'm sure Elizabeth/Beth has something that she wants to be called - just tell Jamie what name she goes by and be done with it.

FWIW, my immediate family and people who know me through them do call me by a different name - an Elizabeth-nickname that my mother prefers and used throughout my childhood. I don't like it but I'm not going to make people who have called me one thing change it years later. But anyone who met me as an adult calls me Elizabeth... and can't see me as the other name.

Quote

Because Deonna dated only herself for ten years, she never had an adult romantic relationship.  It's like asking someone who has never walked before to run a marathon.  She doesn't know the dance steps and it shows.  I don't think she's a bad person because you don't know what you don't know.

So how many "serious" relationships does one have to have had to be considered "marriage-qualified?" Is it the number of relationships or like the total number of days in-relationship (so two long ones or three short ones would work as long as you total 750 days or something like that)?

Sarcasm. I don't agree. I had a couple of relationships and a long dry spell before I married. I have a wonderful marriage. I have a friend who has an enviable marriage of over 20 years, to the first guy she ever dated seriously. They met in college. I know many people who had a lot of serious relationships and had disastrous marriage. I think way too much is made of Deonna's only having had one serious relationship - with a high school boyfriend. That's just the persona they gave her for the show - the little shorthand to stick under her photo. I actually like her a lot and I like her with Greg. I have high hopes for them.

[Gurkel]

2 hours ago, configdotsys said:

A few notes on this snoozefest of an episode:

Aw., I don't mind that there wasn't a whole lot of drama in this episode. It gave me a chance to get to know the couples better and see the development of future drama. It didn't have to be 90 minutes, though. A bit too long.

5 minutes ago, red12 said:

I am trying to ask this in the most non-sarcastic way possible. Do you really mean virginity is Iris's greatest gift?

1 hour ago, PityFree said:

 At a certain point virginity becomes less of a gift and more of a burden.  I don’t think Keith wants the sexual act to have the life altering meaning that it will have if he has sex with Iris.  Is he going to end up being the one always initiating sex? answering all of her questions? Has she ever had an orgasm? Is Iris going to be the type of woman to put the responsibility for her orgasm on him?  What about different sexual activities?  Is she willing to participate in oral sex? Different positions? We won’t know how much of the burden will be on Keith until we know what Iris’s attitude is towards sex though (I.e., does she think sex is “dirty”?).

Iris's virginity is being marketed as the most important characteristic about her and the most challenging factor in her and Keith's marriage. Seriously? I think the topic of when to have sex is one that's making all of the spouses a little nervous. Except maybe Amber and Elizabeth. Do we jump right in, or do we wait to get to know each other first? Or in the case of Deonna, has "Having Sex With Greg" made it onto her To Do list? 

Pityfree, you brought up some great points having to do with Iris's feelings about sex. I'd argue that most of these couples will have to work through similar issues. I'm especially thinking about Deonna, who possibly hasn't had sex in a while. And does being Christian mean that she considers sex 'dirty?' Although I worry that Deonna might've already checked out of this marriage, which means she and Greg won't be doing anything together except modeling their matching swim wear. 

Similarly, are any of the spouses survivors of sexual assault? Is Matt too big for petite Amber? Does Elizabeth want Jamie to manscape? Is Keith a player who's used to having multiple sexual partners? God, I hope not. But you never know.

[configdotsys]

22 minutes ago, Gurkel said:

Aw., I don't mind that there wasn't a whole lot of drama in this episode. It gave me a chance to get to know the couples better and see the development of future drama. It didn't have to be 90 minutes, though. A bit too long.

You know that feeling you get when you start a new job? You're happy to be there but you don't know where the bathroom is, you don't know anyone and just hate that feeling? Or when you start a new book and keep thinking, Okay, get on with it? That's what I feel when watching the first several episodes of this show. I get that there have to be intros and stuff to get to know the people before it settles into whatever is going to happen but I just have no patience for it because it feels too long. We don't need an 8 minute recap of last week's episode, drawn out conversations to fill time and just unnecessary junk. If it was an hour, it definitely would be more tolerable.

This way about me is why I cannot read fiction books. There is entirely too much over-explaining things like the writer wants to show us how detailed they can be so they go on for page and pages about a room's decor, or a person's background, or some other thing that makes a 400 page book a waste of my time when it could have been whittled down to 200 or fewer pages. I definitely lack patience when it comes to these things. Even in life, when someone guess "Guess what?" and then begins going on and on and on, I tend to say "Can you just get to the punchline please?"

[LuvMyShows]

48 minutes ago, islandgal140 said:

I see a lot of posters making comparisons to Jasmine of last season, but I think Deonna is worse. 

The reason I think Jasmine is worse, is that while Deonna seems rigid, it doesn't seem to me like she's rigid because of thinking "I'm all that, I deserve to have everything I want", like Jasmine was.  Deonna seems more like she's rigid because of just having one idea of how things are, but not necessarily because of anything special about her per se.

21 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

So how many "serious" relationships does one have to have had to be considered "marriage-qualified?" Is it the number of relationships or like the total number of days in-relationship (so two long ones or three short ones would work as long as you total 750 days or something like that)?

Sarcasm. I don't agree. I had a couple of relationships and a long dry spell before I married. I have a wonderful marriage. I have a friend who has an enviable marriage of over 20 years, to the first guy she ever dated seriously. They met in college. I know many people who had a lot of serious relationships and had disastrous marriage. I think way too much is made of Deonna's only having had one serious relationship - with a high school boyfriend. That's just the persona they gave her for the show - the little shorthand to stick under her photo. I actually like her a lot and I like her with Greg. I have high hopes for them.

I don't think it's a set number of years, or relationships, or even age at marriage.  The problem with Deonna is that she only had one relationship, it was in high school (10 years earlier and a very different time development-wise), and by her own admission it went badly on both ends.  And while she says she has been working on herself during the intervening years, she apparently hasn't had any more experience with a partner.  But marriage is partner-dependent.

[Ilovepie]

58 minutes ago, islandgal140 said:

Nine seasons but Six "successful" marriages, one of which is Shawniece and Jephte LOL! Nothing to brag about. 

Well, even though they eventually divorced, I would also include Courtney and Jason and Lily and Tom. Both stayed together well past the expiration date of the show and separated at point even "normal" relationships could expire.......

That being said, even 8 successful matches is still nothing to brag about when they have to own responsibility for choosing people like Sean, all the Ryans, Nick, Mia, Molly, Luke, etc.......

[aphroditewitch]

The women on this show can never win. If they are vocal about being into their husband like Amber, then they are called thirsty. If they are more reserved like Deonna then they are cold. If they are unsure about how their husband treats them like Dallas Amber, then they are insecure. If they are confident in who they are like Jasmine, then they are criticized for being spoiled and thinking well of themselves. 

[configdotsys]

1 minute ago, LuvMyShows said:

The reason I think Jasmine is worse, is that while Deonna seems rigid, it doesn't seem to me like she's rigid because of thinking "I'm all that, I deserve to have everything I want", like Jasmine was.  Deonna seems more like she's rigid because of just having one idea of how things are, but not necessarily because of anything special about her per se.

I don't think it's a set number of years, or relationships, or even age at marriage.  The problem with Deonna is that she only had one relationship, it was in high school (10 years earlier and a very different time development-wise), and by her own admission it went badly on both ends.  And while she says she has been working on herself during the intervening years, she apparently hasn't had any more experience with a partner.  But marriage is partner-dependent.

I agree. It definitely does not make her any more tolerable than Jasmine though. She's been flying solo for 10 years of her own personal growth with no one else to take into consideration. She has never had an adult relationship in which you have to share, learn to play, and compromise and all that stuff. So she has one straight way of thinking and lacks any kind of experience in integrating another person into her life and understanding that it's no longer "me" and my wants, but instead, it's "we" and our wants that have to be absorbed into the relationship in a way that works best for both people. She seems completely closed to that idea. Maybe if she grows to trust him she will let down some of those huge walls she has up. But then again, maybe Greg isn't interested in a project and spending his days trying to figure how what she wants and needs at every given moment and being dressed down when he guesses incorrectly.

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, Elizzikra said:

Sarcasm. I don't agree. I had a couple of relationships and a long dry spell before I married. I have a wonderful marriage. I have a friend who has an enviable marriage of over 20 years, to the first guy she ever dated seriously. They met in college. I know many people who had a lot of serious relationships and had disastrous marriage. I think way too much is made of Deonna's only having had one serious relationship - with a high school boyfriend. That's just the persona they gave her for the show - the little shorthand to stick under her photo. I actually like her a lot and I like her with Greg. I have high hopes for them.

Good points.  Here's my thing.  Your friend who has been married for 20 years, met the man in college.  So they met in college and then married, they were in their 20's.  Deonna hasn't been in a relationship since she was a teenager, and when you are a teenager, there is so much going on growth wise.  16-26 is different than 26-36.  As someone said here,  marriage is partner dependent. 

The problem with this show is, it doesn't matter if you're matched by experts/friends/family/matchmakers, it's all a crap shoot.  No one can predict attraction or revulsion.  People are complex, we're not robots.  That's why I shake my head when the experts say dumb things like, "we matched them because family is important to them."  That doesn't guarantee compatibility or attraction. 

[red12]

19 hours ago, Gurkel said:

Aw., I don't mind that there wasn't a whole lot of drama in this episode. It gave me a chance to get to know the couples better and see the development of future drama. It didn't have to be 90 minutes, though. A bit too long.

Iris's virginity is being marketed as the most important characteristic about her and the most challenging factor in her and Keith's marriage. Seriously? I think the topic of when to have sex is one that's making all of the spouses a little nervous. Except maybe Amber and Elizabeth. Do we jump right in, or do we wait to get to know each other first? Or in the case of Deonna, has "Having Sex With Greg" made it onto her To Do list? 

Pityfree, you brought up some great points having to do with Iris's feelings about sex. I'd argue that most of these couples will have to work through similar issues. I'm especially thinking about Deonna, who possibly hasn't had sex in a while. And does being Christian mean that she considers sex 'dirty?' Although I worry that Deonna might've already checked out of this marriage, which means she and Greg won't be doing anything together except modeling their matching swim wear. 

Similarly, are any of the spouses survivors of sexual assault? Is Matt too big for petite Amber? Does Elizabeth want Jamie to manscape? Is Keith a player who's used to having multiple sexual partners? God, I hope not. But you never know.

Regarding Deonna, she is the one that I think might (based on very limited information) be helped by having satisfying sex with Greg. I believe she needs the oxytocin released by affection and orgasm with a man she is committed to in order to aid in bonding with him. I think Greg is already sold and for him the emotional lubrication (sorry) provided by an active sex life with Deonna could help prolong his positive feelings in the face of some of her quirks.

Jamie, on the other hand, has a tiger by the tail and probably will end up with much more than he bargained for in a sexual relationship with Elizabeth. She appears to need SO MUCH validation of her sexual allure and attractiveness and I do not think her needs can be fulfilled by one man. The upside is that she is obviously the aggressor so, hopefully that will deter her dad from murdering him. I actually commanded him to wear a condom and use every other contraceptive aid available to him because if he fathers a child with Jamie during this experiment...in the words of my mother, "Only the Lord [can save him]".

Edited June 28, 2019 by red12

[NoWhammies]

42 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

People are complex, we're not robots.  That's why I shake my head when the experts say dumb things like, "we matched them because family is important to them."  That doesn't guarantee compatibility or attraction. 

My favorite still has to be, "We matched them because they looked sexy together."

[red12]

2 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Pardon my  ill chosen words...greatest is not correct...

Iris' virginity has been something she has "saved" for 27 years and her Father has "protected" for as long...

Iris has made it clear that her virginity is only for her husband.

 Perhaps  cherished is a better choice of words....

Got it. Thank you for the clarification.

I was unsure whether you were intending to communicate Iris's feelings or your own view of her (or any other woman's) virginity.

[LuvMyShows]

1 minute ago, NoWhammies said:

My favorite still has to be, "We matched them because they looked sexy together."

Yes!  Wasn't that Hundy Ryan and Jessica?

[NoWhammies]

1 minute ago, LuvMyShows said:

Yes!  Wasn't that Hundy Ryan and Jessica?

And we saw how that worked out. Who knew "looking sexy together" didn't predict a long and happy life together. 

[islandgal140]

14 hours ago, STRIDER1 said:

Wow really surprised me that not one of the couples got it on on their wedding night. shocker lol

I had guessed beforehand that it would have been at least 2 of the 4 couples (big red chardonnay/jamie and amber/matt)

Oh well hahaha 😂

That is just what they say now. Just wait until things go left and you will have someone looking sheepishly into the camera talking about "we lied, we had sex night 1"

2 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Pardon my  ill chosen words...greatest is not correct...

Iris' virginity has been something she has "saved" for 27 years and her Father has "protected" for as long...

Iris has made it clear that her virginity is only for her husband.

 Perhaps  cherished is a better choice of words....

This is what baffles me about Iris. Why would you risk something so "cherished" on a show like this?!? She is young and she is pretty and appears to have a great personality. Why? Make it make sense. 

[LilaFowler]

Deonna is frigid. Greg was trying to flirt with her and be funny and she shut it all down. I can see why she was single for a decade. She is joyless and I feel sorry for Greg.

Elizabeth is growing on me. I don't think she's that bad. I think once the novelty of this show wears off and she gets more into filming, the frantic behavior will subside. I hope. I think she and Jamie are well-matched in terms of appearance and he seems excited about her.

Iris and Keith are a big WTF to me. One, I'm already bored silly with her virginity. We're going to hear about that all season. Two, I don't understand why either of them needed this show. Both of them seem like a good catch, so what's the deal?

I'm shocked that Amber and Matt didn't have sex on their wedding night. She was being extremely forward about wanting to, and he said that he wanted to also. However, on Unfilitered he said that he was taken aback by her forwardness. Frankly, she's acting like a groupie and it's a total turnoff to me. Play a little harder to get, girl. Men like a bit of a challenge (see Greg, Deonna). She's very immature. Matt has some big red flags IMO, including all of the family stuff.

[Neurochick]

I'm going to be alone with this, but I don't see the big deal regarding Matt and his family.  I have a friend whose family are all drunks and addicts.  He has nothing to do with any of them.  

[NoWhammies]

32 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I'm going to be alone with this, but I don't see the big deal regarding Matt and his family.  I have a friend whose family are all drunks and addicts.  He has nothing to do with any of them.  

I get it. Sometimes the family of your birth just isn't in a good place and you have to separate yourself from the madness either for a while or permanently. I don't think it's necessarily a red flag. 

[Ilovepie]

1 hour ago, NoWhammies said:

Who knew "looking sexy together" didn't predict a long and happy life together. 

Let's pray that this doesn't happen to Iris and Keith......

[Ilovepie]

45 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I'm going to be alone with this, but I don't see the big deal regarding Matt and his family.  I have a friend whose family are all drunks and addicts.  He has nothing to do with any of them.  

I completely agree. When things are dysfunctional, sometimes the healthiest thing is to separate. It's why my husband hasn't spoken to his father for 15 years and we only visit his mom every 5 years or so. Too much negative history. It's no reflection on my husband who is a great guy, and even though his own family is kind of a disaster, it doesn't mean family isn't important to him. It's actually a huge disappointment to him honestly, and I kind of see the same thing in Matt.

[Ohwell]

6 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

I completely agree. When things are dysfunctional, sometimes the healthiest thing is to separate. It's why my husband hasn't spoken to his father for 15 years and we only visit his mom every 5 years or so. Too much negative history. It's no reflection on my husband who is a great guy, and even though his own family is kind of a disaster, it doesn't mean family isn't important to him. It's actually a huge disappointment to him honestly, and I kind of see the same thing in Matt.

I don't see the big deal about Matt's relationship with his family either.  I know the producers need some kind of drama, but I hope Amber doesn't press him on it.  After they've spent some time together (that is, if they stay together), he'll probably open up about his family just as she'll probably open up about her mother being a lesbian, but right now they don't know each other well enough to tell all.    

[Ilovepie]

Just now, Ohwell said:

I hope Amber doesn't press him on it.  After they've spent some time together (that is, if they stay together), he'll probably open up about his family just as she'll probably open up about her mother being a lesbian, but right now they don't know each other well enough to tell all.    

I hope Amber can be supportive and see his perspective; after all, she had/has a rocky relationship with her own mother by her own admission, wedding involvement notwithstanding. Also, not having a good relationship with your family doesn't mean you are anti-family. Sometimes things happen that are beyond your control.

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I'm going to be alone with this, but I don't see the big deal regarding Matt and his family.  I have a friend whose family are all drunks and addicts.  He has nothing to do with any of them.  

Matt could be totally justified in shunning them - the problem is that between the editing and Matt's continued references to the divorce as the reason he cut ties, it makes him look like an overgrown toddler throwing a tantrum out of spite and someone who has a weird degree of entitlement and control issues over his parents' lives. Though I'm sure both the experts and Amber/Matt themselves will try to draw parallels, his situation is nothing like Amber's. Her mom moved states without warning, leaving her in a single parent household and (according to Amber) seemingly caring very little about maintaining her relationship with her daughters. For a 13-year-old girl, that would be devastating and I'm sure resentment his simmered for years. But she still invited her mom to the dress shopping, wedding, etc.

Matt's parents got divorced when he was a self-sufficient 29-year-old man living abroad. He didn't grow up in a broken home and the divorce had zero impact on his income or stability or daily life. I think he very vaguely alluded to his dad cheating, but if that's the case, why punish both? There's clearly more to that story.

[KateHearts]

I'm in the middle of this, but my first thoughts are this:

Iris is a virgin which is unusual, but it's not an AFFLICTION. Everyone needs to stop having the look of horror and the screeching music needs to stop when that's brought up.

Redhead's Dad needs to back the hell off.  It's absolutely creepy when he says "her heart is mine," and that he is upset when she kisses her husband.

[gingerandcloves]

Could Big Red's Dad be any creepier? I felt so bad for Jamie during that breakfast. I'd have been looking at the producers to rescue me. And why does the mom just sit there with a big grin on her face? Ugh. So, so ooky.

Deonna needs to loosen up and be a little more playful and lighthearted. If you're going to do this whole MAFS thing, you need to be all in.

[gingerandcloves]

I'm with those of you who think Matt & Amber and Jamie & Big Red had sex on the wedding night. I'd be super shocked if they didn't.