S06.E16: Mt. Everest and Sherpa people

[Athena]

Quote

 

Mount Everest and Sherpa people

Other segments: Iranian shoot-down of U.S. drone

 

 

[Annber03]

I'm clearly not an adventurous person by any stretch, 'cause I'm more than happy to just admire a place like Everest from a photo/shot of it on TV. Hell, when I lived in Colorado years ago, I thought anyone trying to ski the Rocky Mountains was nuts :p. 

Seriously, though, yeah, I get that people want to explore cool places like this and all that, but good god, how stupid are you if you don't take the proper precautions ahead of time? And yes, if I managed to make it to the top of that mountain, and managed to survive all the ghastly risks that come with the climb to boot, I'd definitely be taking a moment or two to properly and quietly take in the beauty of this amazing part of nature that I was lucky to get to see. Not everything needs to be a freaking selfie moment. 

So Tucker Carlson and I are actually on the same side of an issue for once, in regards to Iran. That's a scary, weird place to find myself. We really are living in upside down world. Seeing Trump try to "handle" all this stuff with Iran/North Korea/insert other country we're battling with for some dumb reason or another makes me want to grab every Trump voter by the shoulders and shake them while yelling, "WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING?!" Thanks so much, guys, for sticking our entire country in this miserable situation due to your incredibly poor choices. Really appreciate it. Dear god. 

[Robert Lynch]

Megan must be like this all the time. How can viewers watch this show?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

FECAL TIME BOMB.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Let's see your pictures from Adventures Indoors Expeditions!

http://www.thetopofmounteverest.com

[swanpride]

The Meghan Cut was glorious. God, I really don't know how people can stand this show. I mean, it is great to se women discussing political issues, but if there are only stupid and bratty women available for the "conservative" position, maybe just don't portray it at all. Whoopie is conservative enough to play devil's advocate if needed.

Regarding the Everest, I don't get it. I get it if people really love climbing mountains, but not if they want to do it just so that they can say that they have been on the Everest. Maybe they should offer two climbs: A save one for tourists, which goes to a beautiful spot but NOT to the top, and another one for professionals, which have already climbed a few mountains beforehand. Because if Everest the only mountain someone wants to climb, than said person shouldn't do it.

But you know what would help the most? If we declare it as uncool to climb the Everest. Just reframe it as an idiotic endeavour in which people needlessly risk the life of Sherpas in order to stroke their own egos, and the enthusiasm will hopefully die down.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I don't want to sound totally jaded, but I never thought people who climb Everest were awesome. I always assumed that they were rich people who had the time and money to fly halfway across the world and pay someone to carry all their shit up the side of a mountain for them. According to this article, it costs about $45K which includes the $11K permit and hiring guides and sherpas but doesn't include the training you should do beforehand, the gear, travel costs, etc.

[Lantern7]

Column from Rick Reilly in Sports Illustrated on the fatal tourism of Mt. Everest . . . published in 2006. I’m not sure why some of the words are stuck together, but you get the point. There was also an episode of Family Guy where the Griffiths wound up eating a guy to survive, but I’m guessing that’s beneath the attention of the trophy hunters.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

And thanks to John for teaching me a new vocabulary word: capitonym!

[attica]

It's just another example of rich people view themselves as expert just because they're rich. 'Oh, I have a spare $45K kicking around, I'll scale the tallest peak on earth!' And then let 'the little people' do all the work and clean up after them.

It's also a draw to douchecanoes that value exclusivity as a virtue signal. You know, since a thing is unobtainable, I shall obtain it, and thereby prove my superiority to the lowly proles! 

I totally get the impulse to fleece as many people as possible out of their money in this way, but: fecal time bomb.

Rickrolling is still an unalloyed good thing.

[ganesh]

12 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Seriously, though, yeah, I get that people want to explore cool places like this and all that, but good god, how stupid are you if you don't take the proper precautions ahead of time?

It's simply privilege. They paid their money so they think they're entitled to it. To be fair, the Nepalese government bears some blame too. They want the money just as much. They could establish tighter standards. 

What I don't get with Iran is whether Trump was told at the outset about the estimated casualties, which you think would be standard, and he's saying they did say anything until right at the end? Likely, Trump is being delusional, but if not, that's a huge process failure. 

[swanpride]

Trump just tries to look smart. Plus, he needed some excuse why he stopped the attack. The true reason was most likely that he watched Tucker Carlson and was reminded that the voters don't want another war.

[peeayebee]

I haven't watched The View in ages, and then I'm not even sure I watched a whole ep, so when I saw the show being parodied on SNL I didn't realize how accurate the sketch was in having Meghan say ALL THE TIME, "May I say something?" Love the ending of this bit where the other gal cuts her off, and Meghan gets the big ol' hurt face.

The Everest segment was interesting I suppose. I have always recoiled whenever I see those long lines of people waiting to climb. I didn't realize some people (more than half?) are not really qualified. Awful. I wonder if there would be a disastrous impact to Nepal's and Tibet's economies if they were more restrictive about the number of people and their training.

Trump continues to show that he is The Worst. If he wasn't told that there would be casualties (of, like, the Iranians), what did he think would happen when the U.S. strikes? Broken buildings with no injuries or deaths? We tell them beforehand to clear out?

I'm also not convinced that the drone was over international waters. I read that this particular drone is not the military's favorite, so they wouldn't mind sacrificing it, with the intention of provoking Iran in order to start a war. 

Fecal Time Bomb really is appropriate for a onesie.

[swanpride]

Tibet does have more restrictive rules. Partly because the climb from Tibet is more challenging from the get go. Those irresponsible companies operate from Nepal. If Nepal would at least adopt Tibet's rules, a lot would be helped.

[izabella]

Everest!  I have been irrationally fascinated by the yahoos who decided to climb Everest on a whim ever since Jon Krakauer's book "Into Thin Air."  I've seen every Discovery Channel documentary on multiple climbing seasons, and was proud of myself for recognizing Russell Brice's voice in John's segment.  Brice is one of the expedition leaders and he was the one saying these fools were idiots and he hoped they heard him say that over the radio.

John mentioned all the garbage that litters Everest and the cleaning expeditions that Nepal has started.  He did not mention that Everest is also littered with dead bodies that climbers actually have to climb over or pass nearby on the trail.  They are not able to bring them down when they are high above Camp 2, so there they stay.  John also didn't mention the number of people who lose toes, fingers, noses and other body parts to frostbite, or the people who become blind because they are fools and take off their protective glasses to take pictures.

I think the expedition companies should refuse to lead climbers unless they have experience climbing other high peaks first.  But money always wins.  It's ridiculous that these climbers are so ego driven and want the bragging rights when the sherpas do the hardest work to get them up there and typically climb to the top several times a season long before any of these so-called mountaineers do.

[ALenore]

This is my friend Crabby Normal (i.e.  Frankenstein's monster).  He is the first reanimated human to ascend Everest. He didn't have to worry about needing additional oxygen or food.

[swanpride]

Not only are there bodies all over the mountain, they are used as f... landmarks. It's frankly quite disturbing.

I just don't get it. I already have trouble to get professional mountaineers, because frankly, why not climb at places where the attempt is within an acceptable risk? Why does it have to be so high that your brain literally melts? But just for the bragging rights of having been up there? Yeah, no, there are ways to challenge yourself without risking your live, and there are a lot of beautiful places in the world to explore which don't involve risking the live of the people who bring you up there.

In a way the segment was quite tame. It might have been a good idea to point out that even if you don't die, you might damage yourself for life.

[BuyMoreAndSave]

14 hours ago, swanpride said:

But you know what would help the most? If we declare it as uncool to climb the Everest. Just reframe it as an idiotic endeavour in which people needlessly risk the life of Sherpas in order to stroke their own egos, and the enthusiasm will hopefully die down.

I think it's already going that way. Whenever there's deaths on Everest the comments are like "Darwin Award." One thing that has bothered me for years is a lot of Mt Everest coverage almost talks about sherpas as if they aren't even human. Like "10 climbers and 5 sherpas went up the mountain" and that kind of thing, or only giving media coverage to rich Westerners dying on the mountain. The whole sherpa thing is very colonialist, basically taking advantage of Nepal's poor economy to exploit people into risking their lives.

2 hours ago, swanpride said:

I already have trouble to get professional mountaineers, because frankly, why not climb at places where the attempt is within an acceptable risk?

If you look at Wikipedia articles of famous mountaineers, many of them don't make it to age 40. Mountaineering as a whole is one of the dumbest pastimes I can think of, even if the person puts serious training into it.

[izabella]

3 minutes ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

One thing that has bothered me for years is a lot of Mt Everest coverage almost talks about sherpas as if they aren't even human. Like "10 climbers and 5 sherpas went up the mountain" and that kind of thing, or only giving media coverage to rich Westerners dying on the mountain. The whole sherpa thing is very colonialist, basically taking advantage of Nepal's poor economy to exploit people into risking their lives.

Yes, yes, yes.  Every year, they announce who was the first climber to reach the top of Everest that season.  It's always the sherpas who are first, but they don't get the recognition, as if they don't count while the person they guided does. 

[BuyMoreAndSave]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

Yes, yes, yes.  Every year, they announce who was the first climber to reach the top of Everest that season.  It's always the sherpas who are first, but they don't get the recognition, as if they don't count while the person they guided does. 

And they carried a lot more stuff with them too!

 

Speaking of which I recommend checking out the CBC video on that inexperienced lady who climbed Mt Everest and died on the way down. Her narcissism was just astounding. First of all she thought that walking around hills in Ontario and climbing up the stairs in her apartment with a backpack full of rocks was sufficient altitude training. The lead guides pretty much shouted at her to go down or else she would die and take other people with her, and she still insisted on going up! She gave not a single fuck about risking other peoples' lives! She not only Darwin Awarded herself but the sherpas also had to be in the death zone for like 30 hours because she hadn't trained enough to climb at a decent pace. Sure, they made the decision to continue with her also, but considering the poverty factors, the power dynamic was such that she was largely responsible.

[Annber03]

8 minutes ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

Speaking of which I recommend checking out the CBC video on that inexperienced lady who climbed Mt Everest and died on the way down. Her narcissism was just astounding. First of all she thought that walking around hills in Ontario and climbing up the stairs in her apartment with a backpack full of rocks was sufficient altitude training. 

Good lord... *Facepalm* 

3 hours ago, swanpride said:

I just don't get it. I already have trouble to get professional mountaineers, because frankly, why not climb at places where the attempt is within an acceptable risk? Why does it have to be so high that your brain literally melts? But just for the bragging rights of having been up there? Yeah, no, there are ways to challenge yourself without risking your live, and there are a lot of beautiful places in the world to explore which don't involve risking the live of the people who bring you up there.

Exactly. If humans were meant to survive in those kinds of climates, we would live there. But we don't, and there's a reason for that. 

[BuyMoreAndSave]

7 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

If humans were meant to survive in those kinds of climates, we would live there. But we don't, and there's a reason for that. 

I guess I'm just boring/practical with these "extreme" endeavors. Like, modern civilization exists in order to REDUCE our chance of dying, and yet people want to pay money to INCREASE their chance of dying just for some fleeting "thrill" or bragging rights? I can understand risking one's life for an actual cause, like WW2 or Doctors Without Borders. But climbing a mountain that has been climbed a million times accomplishes absolutely nothing (besides generating a few more pounds of frozen trash and poop in a natural landscape, and giving you permanent brain damage...they've done studies and found that it does). I can almost understand the wingsuiters more because at least they're still pushing the frontiers of something, plus if they die (which is very likely) they won't take anyone else with them.

[vibeology]

7 hours ago, peeayebee said:

The Everest segment was interesting I suppose. I have always recoiled whenever I see those long lines of people waiting to climb. I didn't realize some people (more than half?) are not really qualified. Awful. I wonder if there would be a disastrous impact to Nepal's and Tibet's economies if they were more restrictive about the number of people and their training.

Nepal could charge three times the amount, issue half the permits and come out ahead. People would pay for a limited resource.

The scene with the Sherpa going out of his way to make his paying client feel good about the fact that he had to put his life at risk was the most upsetting. Watching someone who is being exploited do the emotional labour for his exploiter was not okay.

If you enjoyed the Meghan McCain bit, this is for you:

[ganesh]

Baby McCain is dumb as fuck. All I needed to know from her was her appearance on Real Time where she looked like a kid at the adults' table and got fucking owned. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The other thing I don't get about climbing Everest is that if you are so focused on NOT DYING, how can you enjoy the experience? When I find something beautiful, I want to look at it, take it in, and enjoy it at my leisure, which is not something I think I could do while my brain was melting down my spine, my extremities were freezing off, and I was making a conscious effort not to fall into a crevasse. Then again, thanks to the longer wait times due to the crowding and idiots, I guess people have plenty of time to take in the scenery while they're in line.

[ganesh]

You know where you don't have to risk your life? Sitting on my front porch. There's trees to look at and everything. 

[BuyMoreAndSave]

48 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The other thing I don't get about climbing Everest is that if you are so focused on NOT DYING, how can you enjoy the experience? When I find something beautiful, I want to look at it, take it in, and enjoy it at my leisure, which is not something I think I could do while my brain was melting down my spine, my extremities were freezing off, and I was making a conscious effort not to fall into a crevasse. Then again, thanks to the longer wait times due to the crowding and idiots, I guess people have plenty of time to take in the scenery while they're in line.

Many people have died because they spent too long at the top taking in the view and ran out of time in the "death zone."

Edited June 25, 2019 by BuyMoreAndSave

[Victor the Crab]

Fucking rich twits! If I had $45,000 lying around, I'd put that into my RRSPs. Because I want to, you know, think about my future. Which is the exact opposite of what these glory seeking asswipes climbing Everest are doing. Cross a deep ice crevasse on a unsecure metal ladder tied from end to end? No thank you. Hang around too long in the Death Zone so you can have your brains drop down to your ass? I don't think so. Spend the rest of my life with frost related health issues as a result of that stupid climb, if I'm lucky enough to survive? Fuck that shit! Maybe what they should do is, once they reach the summit, fork over an additional $10,000 if they want to get back down to the ground safely. They're rich and stupid enough.

Meghan McCain is a fucking idiot. But then again, I consider all the cast members of the View, past and present, as idiots.

I gotta tell you. I really, really like Rick Ashley's Never Gonna Give You Up. I came of age in the Eighties.

[izabella]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The other thing I don't get about climbing Everest is that if you are so focused on NOT DYING, how can you enjoy the experience?

The only way I could enjoy being at 29,000 feet above sea level is on an airplane, sitting in first class with a drink.  Looking out the window will do just fine!

Edited June 25, 2019 by izabella

[ganesh]

7 minutes ago, Victor the Crab said:

Meghan McCain is a fucking idiot.

That is all. 

[Hooper]

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I just don't get it. I already have trouble to get professional mountaineers, because frankly, why not climb at places where the attempt is within an acceptable risk? Why does it have to be so high that your brain literally melts? But just for the bragging rights of having been up there? Yeah, no, there are ways to challenge yourself without risking your live

Quote

I guess I'm just boring/practical with these "extreme" endeavors. Like, modern civilization exists in order to REDUCE our chance of dying, and yet people want to pay money to INCREASE their chance of dying just for some fleeting "thrill" or bragging rights?

Weirdly enough, I know two people who have climbed Everest (weird because I'm a reasonably outdoorsy sort of person but definitely not a climber, and don't hang out with climbers).  Both did their ascents back in the 80's when only a couple hundred others had done so, and it was not yet a bucket list tourist activity.  I don't get what motivates people to do that sort of extreme activity either, but at least with the two Everest climbers I've been acquainted with, I don't think it's fair to say they do it for "bragging rights".  I think that they are unusually driven to do physically challenging things, but neither ever seemed the least bit interested in bragging about, or even mentioning, their experience, at least to non-climbers.  I knew one of them for years before I even knew he'd climbed Everest, and I only found out because someone else mentioned it to me.   Although I'm not in contact with either of them now, I'm pretty confident that they are both disgusted by the Everest tourist industy, and are probably even more dumbquizzled by what motivates someone to pay a jillion bucks to have someone else haul their ass up a mountainside than we flatlanders are.

[swanpride]

Yeah, the whole story kind of reminds me of a joke a German TV show once did on Reinold Messner - 30 years or so ago. They organised him doing a climbing tour and then transported a kiosk on the top of the Matterhorn. His reaction was kind of priceless. He was basically ranting that he was climbing mountains to get AWAY from newspapers aso, and the idea of setting up a firework from the top made him practically explode. Though not quite as much as being told that his own book was the bestseller.

It is not quite as funny in hindsight.

[wendyg]

What I don't understand is taking bragging rights for something that's *not your achievement*. If you can't make it up the mountain and back down again without the assistance of trained professionals, then *you didn't climb Everest* - they did. When you think about the sherpas climbing that mountain over and over again leading these commercial expeditions, *their* achievement is astounding.

[TexasGal]

I have an acquaintance who tried to climb Kilimanjaro with her husband.  Partway up she started getting severe altitude sickness and hallucinated that people were driving past them in tricked out golf carts.  She got really mad at her husband that he hadn't told her that was an option.  Needless to say, she did not make it to the top.  I just love that story so much, I have to share at any even partially relevant opportunity.

I feel the same as John whenever I watch Trump piecing sentences together.  "It was an unarmed...no one was aboard...not a man on board...or a woman...drone."  For the love of...!!!  I am convinced he just learned the word proportionate this week. 

[Annber03]

6 minutes ago, TexasGal said:

I have an acquaintance who tried to climb Kilimanjaro with her husband.  Partway up she started getting severe altitude sickness and hallucinated that people were driving past them in tricked out golf carts.  She got really mad at her husband that he hadn't told her that was an option.  Needless to say, she did not make it to the top.  I just love that story so much, I have to share at any even partially relevant opportunity.

Dang. Glad your friend made it out of that okay.

I can maybe see where people aren't expecting the hallucinations, but I just don't get how people seem so shocked that climbing a mountain will do a number on you physically. Even the most physically fit, trained people will have trouble after a while. 

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I feel the same as John whenever I watch Trump piecing sentences together.  "It was an unarmed...no one was aboard...not a man on board...or a woman...drone."  For the love of...!!!  I am convinced he just learned the word proportionate this week. 

I always love when he's ranting about some Obama-era deal or policy and claiming it was "the worst thing ever". You know full well he's never read a single word of what is actually in the deal. 

[Rlb8031]

I used to indoor rock climb as exercise with a woman I met at climbing class. We climbed 2-3 times a week together and became close friends. When our indoor gym closed down, she started climbing outdoors here in the NE. Now's the part where I insert that said woman was also a genius level coder and worked writing code for investment banks and hedge funds which gave her plenty of disposable income and a nice amount of vacation time each year. One day she called me and asked if I would partner with her doing the seven summits (the highest mountain on each continent). We were at that point intermediate climbers, but I was not an outdoors person (I hate extreme cold) and I said no. She completed the summits (including Everest)  over an eight year span and spent over $200k doing them. She also was kidnaped by rebels on one climb (they only held her for about three days, until she convinced them that she really was just there to climb the mountain and not as a spy), caught a couple of nasty viruses, and paid to rent a low-oxygen hyperbaric chamber that she slept in for about eight months. According to her Everest was not the most difficult climb technically, but the conditions and the crowding made it the hardest climb. I do think that John was correct that there is a fair amount of unfettered privilege that is on display on the mountain from well-to-do (mostly white) folks who aren't necessarily concerned about the dangers that others take on to make their climbs easier. 

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, TexasGal said:

I have an acquaintance who tried to climb Kilimanjaro with her husband. 

The only thing I know about Kilimanjaro is from Toto. It apparently rises above the serengeti but I've never verified that. 

6 hours ago, Annber03 said:

You know full well he's never read...

6 hours ago, Annber03 said:

There's no way he's read anything in the Iran deal. He's literally saying we need a deal to make sure Iran doesn't get nuclear weapons. It took 2 years to do that! 

I'd really be interested in his actual level of reading comprehension. He couldn't make a deal if he was playing monopoly. 

[swanpride]

I am not sure about how much about Trump is stupidity and how much is some form of dementia. I mean, he was always an idiot, but the way he is searching for words indicates that's his brain is giving up on him on top of it.

[peeayebee]

Trump doesn't like to think. He goes by his gut. What he says shouldn't astonish me anymore.

[ganesh]

I think he's just in way over his head and is terrified. He also thinks he's smarter than he is and bluffing is basically all he can do. Poorly. 

[PikaScrewChu]

I wish they would have gone more into the exploitation of the sherpas on the expeditions. They don't get paid that much in order to set up everything on Everest compared to what people pay to go up the mountain. A lot are forced into it in order to support their families since they have no other choice. Granted you can't cover everything that is problematic about Everest and the tourism associated with it in 20-25 minutes.

[xaxat]

If you personally didn't click the link, were you really Rick Rolled?

[Annber03]

5 hours ago, ganesh said:

I think he's just in way over his head and is terrified. He also thinks he's smarter than he is and bluffing is basically all he can do. Poorly. 

Yep. People have talked before about how he never really actually wanted the job of president. He just wanted to get his name in the news again and ran for a lark. Now he's stuck in a job he hates (except for whatever power perks he enjoys), because people are actually scrutinizing and trying to hold him accountable for what he says and does for the first time in his life and because there's no way his pride would allow him to willingly step down. So he's miserable and the rest of us are stuck feeling all the effects of his miserableness as well. 

[BuyMoreAndSave]

On 6/25/2019 at 4:30 PM, TexasGal said:

I have an acquaintance who tried to climb Kilimanjaro with her husband.  Partway up she started getting severe altitude sickness and hallucinated that people were driving past them in tricked out golf carts.  She got really mad at her husband that he hadn't told her that was an option.  Needless to say, she did not make it to the top.  I just love that story so much, I have to share at any even partially relevant opportunity.

LOL that's hilarious! At least with Kilimanjaro you can walk all the way up though and don't need to exploit any underpaid people to put up ice ladders over crevasses or teach you how to put your damn boots on.

I don't think I would even do that though. My mom got severe altitude sickness in the Andes so I would probably get the same if I ever went up that high, especially because I don't think I've ever been above maybe 5-6000 feet.

[andromeda331]

This episode made me think of the Leverage episode The Long Way Down Job where they have to climb a mountain to find a dead guy who has information about his partner's shady deals. They point out the same thing rich men paying guides to carry their luggage all the way up and Hardison pointed out how many people die bringing the rich man back down the mountain and everyone's so happy that the rich man was saved.  

If they were really climbing the mountain on their own I would be more impressed. But as everyone has already pointed out. That's not what happens. Rich men and women play a ton of money for Sherpas to carry their bags and drag them up the mountain. Wow, how impressive.  I did love the one guy pointing out that there's not a lot of job options in the area. I love the rich guy asking his guide how he felt about risking his life for him and he totally believed his answer. Yeah, I'm sure he'd love nothing more then dragging your butt up a mountain and risking death. 

[Quickbeam]

On 6/25/2019 at 5:07 AM, swanpride said:

Yeah, the whole story kind of reminds me of a joke a German TV show once did on Reinold Messner - 30 years or so ago. They organised him doing a climbing tour and then transported a kiosk on the top of the Matterhorn. His reaction was kind of priceless. He was basically ranting that he was climbing mountains to get AWAY from newspapers aso, and the idea of setting up a firework from the top made him practically explode. Though not quite as much as being told that his own book was the bestseller.

It is not quite as funny in hindsight.

Messner is a climbing god. He’s almost inhuman in his mountaineering CV. 

[Lantern7]

Since John and his team are more than likely at the Emmys tonight, HBO will be running this episode tonight.

[spaceghostess]

This episode brought me back to the time, years ago, that I watched a documentary about some goddamn fools ascending K2 and being stuck in a storm up there. I'm not generally a super-judgmental person, but my kids were very young, and some of the climbers had partners and young kids at home as well, and I was judging the hell out of them. I remember being furious that their loved ones had to sit there for weeks worrying, only to then cope with the deaths of two (Maybe more? Can't remember.) of them and the extreme disfigurement (due to frostbite) of another. I don't recall exact numbers, but a handful on this expedition made it home in one piece--and by "one piece," I only mean that the long-term effects of being at that altitude had yet to manifest themselves. The one guy whose nose fell off and who lost most of his toes returned triumphantly to his very relieved family, and all I could think of was if I were his wife, I'd want to punch him in his nose-hole. I mean, maybe you marry someone like that knowing what he/she/they're like, but do you really understand that you'll have kids together and the person will STILL want risk life, limb, and thousands of dollars of family money on this kind of self-indulgent bullshit? So the frostbite guy's kids are "lucky" to still have their dad, but they have to live with his inability to walk properly and fucked-up, frostbitten face for the rest of their lives as a reminder of this trauma*? I got the sense that family was going to script the father as a hero for making it down, which maybe was the only way they could process it emotionally without falling apart. Thanks, Dad.

The whole thing just pissed me off, and don't even get  me started on what sherpas go through to help these people get their jollies. I was glad John talked about the Nepalese government's role in this, as well. One could easily fill hours on this topic--hours I couldn't watch because it still enrages me. I do hope that climbing these peaks falls out of fashion as more people begin to recognize how destructive (to human lives and the environment) and stupid these endeavors have become. I wonder if a form of ecotourism might be developed that could employ former sherpas? Something to research...

*He probably had enough money to invest in plastic surgery, but still.

Edited September 24, 2019 by spaceghostess
typos

[swanpride]

Yeah, I have already limited understanding for professional mountaineers, but tourists have no business to be in those areas at all. It's already bad enough that they risks their own lives, but they also risk the lives of those who lead them, exploiting the fact that those are the best jobs they can get.