S08.E06: The Iron Throne

[Minneapple]

Just now, CeeBeeGee said:

I think Emilia has a strong chance to get another Supporting Actress nomination. To the extent that we bought Dany's going rogue so quickly, was in large part due to Emilia's selling it. Honestly D/D should give her a bonus for acting the shit out of the un-actable, stupid and makes-no-sense writing beats she was given this season.

Emilia has submitted for lead actress. She'll probably get a nomination, but it's a loaded category, and Julia Roberts (for Homecoming on Amazon) will be a tough one to beat. The Emmys tend to kiss the ass of any big-time movie star who lowers themselves to do television.

[HunterHunted]

On 5/24/2019 at 10:30 AM, terrymct said:

Thinking on it, Bran would have been a great Master of Whispers.  If the Hand has a question about what's going on in, say, Dorne, Bran could just roll his head back into his eyes and take a little look around to see then report.  No waiting for information to come to KL via boat, horseback, or raven.   🙂

It should be Bran, but I saw a comment on Reddit that the new Prince of Dorne should be the Master of Whispers because where the hell did this dude come from. He just appears out of nowhere and everyone just accepts that he's the Prince of Dorne. I love some of the suggested names for this character "Randym Martell" and "Jason Dorne."

[Growsonwalls]

27 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

If you can believe it, Michelle Fairley was not nominated for Season 3 when the Red Wedding aired. That SCENE! When she just lost it and wailed over Robb's body! Her face was absolutely distorted by grief, as though it had chemically changed, as though she'd lost bone mass underneath. WTF fell asleep and did not submit her for that scene, or who on the Emmy committee did not nominate her for that work? She was amazing.

And it is a crime that Nikolaj C-W was not nominated for his monologue in the bathtub to Brienne. Just incredible work. "Jaime...my name is Jaime..."

I think Emilia has a strong chance to get another Supporting Actress nomination. To the extent that we bought Dany's going rogue so quickly, was in large part due to Emilia's selling it. Honestly D/D should give her a bonus for acting the shit out of the un-actable, stupid and makes-no-sense writing beats she was given this season.

Omg yes. I thought the Red Wedding episode was enough to get Michelle Fairley a nomination. But overall I think Fairley did amazing work with a character that was widely despised for being cold and clannish (a bit like her daughter Sansa). 

I also thought Natalie Dormer was great as Margaery Tyrell. I had already admired this actress as Anne Boleyn on The Tudors but Margaery was so well-acted: cunning, ambitious, a great potential leader. 

And I agree, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau should have been nominated for "Jaime, my name is Jaime."

I also thought Lena Headey could have won for this scene alone. Cersei is a monster but this scene shows how in her twisted way she does love her children. 

[MrsR]

Jeepers,

Arya, Sansa, and Bran were there together to support Jon. Ya know, as in, "the pack survives."

And none of them voted. Should Arya and Sansa been dragged out of their chairs the split second Sansa declared for independence and just as their brother was being elevated to the Ruler? Who's gonna make that happen? Royce? Sam? Edmure? Seems like a bad move if you might wish to curry favor with new King.

[RealReality]

12 minutes ago, MrsR said:

Jeepers,

Arya, Sansa, and Bran were there together to support Jon. Ya know, as in, "the pack survives."

And none of them voted. Should Arya and Sansa been dragged out of their chairs the split second Sansa declared for independence and just as their brother was being elevated to the Ruler? Who's gonna make that happen? Royce? Sam? Edmure? Seems like a bad move if you might wish to curry favor with new King.

To me, the question isn't why they would want to be there....it's why anyone else would let them be there.  Especially when there wasn't a representative from the people dany led....namely the dothraki and the unsullied.  Why should Jon get support, but those who followed Dany and suffered the most from her loss not get a place?

To me, bran and Arya shouldn't have been there to begin with.  Sansa was the lady if winterfell, bran was a guy who turns into a bird and Arya doesn't even want to be lady gendry.  

If random people with an interest in Jon's fate we're allowed there, then there should have been a representative from the unsullied and a representative from the dothraki as well.  GW was there, but he seemed to be more of a court bailiff.

[MrsR]

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, RealReality said:

3 minutes ago, RealReality said:

To me, the question isn't why they would want to be there....it's why anyone else would let them be there.  Especially when there wasn't a representative from the people dany led....namely the dothraki and the unsullied.  Why should Jon get support, but those who followed Dany and suffered the most from her loss not get a place?

To me, bran and Arya shouldn't have been there to begin with.  Sansa was the lady if winterfell, bran was a guy who turns into a bird and Arya doesn't even want to be lady gendry.  

If random people with an interest in Jon's fate we're allowed there, then there should have been a representative from the unsullied and a representative from the dothraki as well.  GW was there, but he seemed to be more of a court bailiff.

Well first of all what makes you think the Starks are some sort of Randos. I mean really think about that. Winterfell, largest landholders, Wardens of the North, 8,000 year old history, Hero of the Great War. And they came to get their brother. 

What you makes you think that this was anything but a hastily put together gathering of the most influential survivors of a protracted dispute, in order to deal with an unprecedented situation, that being, we have no ruler.  There's no one in charge.  There are no rules for this.

Grey Worm was the only ranking member of Dany's council left. The other two were hostages at this point. I think it's fair to say that Jon had kind of quit his job. 

The Dothraki were packing up their shit. Why on earth would they want to stay in Westeros? Zombies, snow, dead Khaleesi. They had already booked their tickets.

[RealReality]

@MrsR -- Arya and bran were definitely more random additions to the table than the dothraki or the unsullied who had their leader executed.  Both groups had a direct and vested interest as both groups had fought alongside Dany and, ostensibly had helped her to win the throne, and therefore had a vested interest in seeing her vision come to fruition no matter how awful that vision was.  

And if their mission was to "get back their brother" than they REALLY should have been barred from a council meeting to determine a fair fate for Jon amongst danys allies.  

The dothraki, as far as I could tell, we're shown packing up when GW and crew were leaving.  We have no idea if they were asked, but they had way more of a right to be there than Arya or bran, who were neither lord nor lady of any house.

Sansa, maybe, and of course, she declared an independent north once it was clear no one wanted her on the next throne no matter what it was made of.

But GW wasn't even part of the decision making process ...neither were the dothraki....the two groups who suffered the biggest loss when Dany died had no say in choosing the next leader or what would happen to Jon.  Both groups died and suffered and fought alongside their leader, and won.  But in spite of the fact that they helped to win a war they didn't even get a seat at the table to determine who the next ruler was?

I guess prince of dorne was there, but did dorne send anyone to fight?  Did they send money?  Did they send some food? Does dorne have an army?  But they get more of a say in who the next leader is than the groups that sacrificed for Dany to win and then had their leader killed?

Edited May 28, 2019 by RealReality

[MrsR]

9 minutes ago, RealReality said:

but they had way more of a right to be there

They were not landowners and/or titled Westerosi. They have NO rights what so ever. Their leader was dead, gone, no more. An ex-leader.  The Dothraki want to go home and find a new Khal. 

[RealReality]

9 minutes ago, MrsR said:

They were not landowners and/or titled Westerosi. They have NO rights what so ever. Their leader was dead, gone, no more. An ex-leader.  The Dothraki want to go home and find a new Khal. 

We have no idea why the dothraki left.  And if danys vision was to break the rules of only landownership in westerosi having a hand in government then the dothraki and the unsullied have a right to a place at the table.  DANY won the war, so the dothraki and the unsullied had power through Dany and therefore when their leader was killed they had as much a right if not more of a right to choose the next leader.  

DANY and her crew won kings landing at the very least, and as that was danys win...and therefore a win for her people, and as such, they had a right to have a say in the next leader.

And they certainly had way more of a right to have a say than bran, who was lord of nothing, and Arya who isn't even lady gendry.

If Sansa died childless, her people would pick their next ruler of the north.  Here Dany won territory and was killed, her people had a right to have a say in who the next leader was of the territory she had won.  No matter how abhorrent the win.

Edited May 28, 2019 by RealReality

[Bali]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 8:10 PM, RealReality said:

Interesting, did we get an idea how much time had passed from the war until the meeting we saw?

I mean no one had noticeably aged so it hadn't been like 20 years, but nothing in KL looked destroyed, however they we're talking about rebuilding, so maybe like 5-7 years?  I guess that's long enough for some people to forget?

Well, according to the first season rules- and according to Robert B. It takes six weeks to get from Winterfell to KL. So, since Sansa is at KL it was at least 6 weeks from the war to the meeting.

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 11:20 PM, CatS said:

So...

Jon is King in the North of the North 

the Norther North?

the Northest North?

Let's just admit it. Jon is the King of Scotland. Or in this world, Scotlandos

And I'm not sure if Ser Davos of the Sexy Voice is powerful enough to be on the council. But He IS Ser Davos of the Sexy Voice and if being on the council allows me to hear his sexy voice once again, I'm good with it.

[Bali]

7 hours ago, RealReality said:

To me, the question isn't why they would want to be there....it's why anyone else would let them be there.  Especially when there wasn't a representative from the people dany led....namely the dothraki and the unsullied.  Why should Jon get support, but those who followed Dany and suffered the most from her loss not get a place?

To me, bran and Arya shouldn't have been there to begin with.  Sansa was the lady if winterfell, bran was a guy who turns into a bird and Arya doesn't even want to be lady gendry.  

If random people with an interest in Jon's fate we're allowed there, then there should have been a representative from the unsullied and a representative from the dothraki as well.  GW was there, but he seemed to be more of a court bailiff.

I think that when Dany burned KL to a crisp, the other Lords of the 7 Kingdoms probably stopped caring what Dany's people thought. They were invaders of the 7 Kingdoms. Their leader was killed. They didn't belong there.

[JonasArm]

3 minutes ago, Bali said:

I think that when Dany burned KL to a crisp, the other Lords of the 7 Kingdoms probably stopped caring what Dany's people thought. They were invaders of the 7 Kingdoms. Their leader was killed. They didn't belong there. 

Yet it's not the case since they are in King's Landing, a city controlled by Dany's people and at least Yara and Gendry were still rooting for Dany.

[RealReality]

12 minutes ago, Bali said:

I think that when Dany burned KL to a crisp, the other Lords of the 7 Kingdoms probably stopped caring what Dany's people thought. They were invaders of the 7 Kingdoms. Their leader was killed. They didn't belong there.

The unsullied is a force that is bred to fight.  The dothraki live to fight and kill.  I guarantee you that there is not a force that could take on either.  Whether she won in a good way or a bad way, that land was danys by conquest.

Does dorne even have an army?  

The dothraki and the unsullied had more right to representation than Arya and bran.

Edited May 28, 2019 by RealReality

[BitterApple]

Now that we've had some time to marinate on the finale, I'm curious to see how everyone would rank the seasons, best to worst. Mine would be:

S1, S4, S3, S2, S6, S5, S7, S8.

I'm bummed the show nose-dived in the last four episodes, but in terms of overall body of work, I'd still give it an 8/10.

[PatsyandEddie]

Grey Worm , Commander of the armies, was part of the decision making process. He demanded Jon be punished for what he did which is why Jon went to The Wall. Again. There was a huge risk of civil war if he was executed. 

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, PatsyandEddie said:

Grey Worm , Commander of the armies, was part of the decision making process. He demanded Jon be punished for what he did which is why Jon went to The Wall. Again. There was a huge risk of civil war if he was executed. 

First off, if I were grey worm or the unsullied I would tell Sansa and her hypothetical army "ready to fight" they they could fuck right off.  No way do northern fighters stand a chance against two forces who are bred to fight and kill.

pfffft at a civil war.  Yara was there for Dany, why would she fight to keep Jon alive.  I'm not sure dorne has an army.  Is ANYONE invested in Jon snow besides Sansa, Arya, Tyrion and bran?  Invested enough to risk their men dying for him?  So the north would fight if Jon was killed, and again, good luck Sansa with that.  

Not only did grey worm and the unsullied have a right to demand and execute Jon, they had every right to be a part of the discussion for new leadership.

Why would they accept him going to the wall?  Maybe grey worm figures it's worse than death, but grey worm doesn't strike me as that kind of guy.  

And, IMO, no one really had the numbers to challenge them....oh besides sansas northern army....ready for battle....against the dothraki and the unsullied 🙄.  Yara probably has a number of men left, but why would she care if Jon snow died?

[PatsyandEddie]

Any Ironborn  who followed Euron, who was their king, died by dragon fire. Many died with Theon in the Godswood so Yara had a smallish crew who went back to reclaim the Iron Islands. 

Grey Worm and the Dothraki are warriors, not political figures.Their leader is gone. The Dothraki don’t want to be there as it’s too cold for them which I believe was stated on the show. They will be looking for a new Khal.

Grey Worm has a mission to go to Naath for his beloved. I don’t think he wants a fight either. 

Mileages varies as always. 

[BitterApple]

19 minutes ago, RealReality said:

Is ANYONE invested in Jon snow besides Sansa, Arya, Tyrion and bran?  Invested enough to risk their men dying for him?  So the north would fight if Jon was killed, and again, good luck Sansa with that.  

Not only did grey worm and the unsullied have a right to demand and execute Jon, 

The writing was completely non-sensical in this entire area. Dany made the comment that Jon had more love in Westeros than her, but did he really? Outside of the North, did any of the other Kingdoms know or care enough about Jon Snow to say, "Yep, he's our guy!." Ditto for Bran. It took the main players all of thirty seconds to approve him as King.....why exactly? Wasn't the whole point of choosing a ruler to avoid a nepotism-based system where unqualified people slide onto the Throne? Bran's resume is being pushed out of a tower and the R+L=J reveal. That's it.

Regarding Greyworm and Jon, if this was S1 GOT, Jon would've been a goner. Tyrion as well. I really wish D&D had the balls to execute both of them. I feel like staying true to the original nature of the show in this aspect would've made up for so many of the flaws in others. 

[RealReality]

59 minutes ago, PatsyandEddie said:

Any Ironborn  who followed Euron, who was their king, died by dragon fire. Many died with Theon in the Godswood so Yara had a smallish crew who went back to reclaim the Iron Islands. 

Grey Worm and the Dothraki are warriors, not political figures.Their leader is gone. The Dothraki don’t want to be there as it’s too cold for them which I believe was stated on the show. They will be looking for a new Khal.

Grey Worm has a mission to go to Naath for his beloved. I don’t think he wants a fight either. 

Mileages varies as always. 

I don't think you can have warriors without political figures, even if they aren't as we would have recognized them by tradition.  

I don't believe the dothraki said anything if the sort.  If they followed Dany there they believed in her, and her mission enough to follow here there and lay down their lives for her there.

And for someone else to say that on the behalf of the dothraki is a little weird and maybe insulting and paternalistic.

...but suddenly they don't care?  Not even enough to demand Jon be executed?

GW could want very much to go to naath.  That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve a say in who the new leader is or that he and the dothraki don't deserve that.  If he was invested in danys vision, if he laid down his life for it, if his men did so and Dany won that land they have a right to have a say in who the new leader is, especially if they want to choose a leader to move forward with dany's vision....and not bran with the broken because "he gotz the stories y'all!"

Frankly whatever reason they had for who they chose as the leader couldn't be any more ridiculous than the hail Mary nonsense Tyrion was serving.

[MrsR]

6 hours ago, RealReality said:

The dothraki and the unsullied had more right to representation

You really are approaching all this from a 21st century POV. 

What right to representation? From the Westerosi Constitution? The one that doesn't give the ordinary Westorosi a vote on representation? Which amendment granted foreign soldiers a representative? Is it upheld by the Westerosi Supreme Court?

There is no concept of RIGHTS in this society for the soldier or the common man.

They didn't conquer Westeros. They burned one city to the ground. With a dragon they no longer possess. The Westerosi can move their capital.  They have armies. Do you really think that these lords would have come to their burned-out capital without a show of force. The Dothraki have no way of bringing down "stone houses" neither do The Unsullied.  They have no Drogon. And do you really think that Gendry could or would raise an army to go against the rest of  Westeros.

The worst the Dothraki could do is pillage the countryside. 

Grey Worm was demanding JUSTICE for his queen. They weren't seeking representation. The Dothraki weren't interested. I don't think they really have a concept of justice.

Edited May 28, 2019 by MrsR

[enoughcats]

6 hours ago, RealReality said:

First off, if I were grey worm or the unsullied I would tell Sansa and her hypothetical army "ready to fight" they they could fuck right off.  No way do northern fighters stand a chance against two forces who are bred to fight and kill.

But Sansa seems to have known where the food is. Remembering the platitude "An army fights on its stomach" horses need quality livestock feed, and both the human armies need to be well fed or they aren't going to have the umpf to train for six hours a day (much less ballance on the back of horses and shoot arrows so very, very well.) 

Give Kings landing to the two armies?  no food, fractured water system, what ARE they going to eat?

At least the Dothraki can look forward to raping pillaging and plundering and being taken care of in their old age by their offspring.  Who is going to care for a corps of eunuchs? Who were never farmers to begin with?

2 hours ago, MrsR said:

There is no concept of RIGHTS in this society for the soldier or the common man.

Nor for women, and the definition of common man was more middle ages.....

2 hours ago, MrsR said:

Grey Worm was demanding JUSTICE for his queen. They weren't seeking representation.

Grey Worm's queen was killed during his watch.  In a lot of -doms, that gets the guys at the top of the chain of command killed.  Like step up and be the first one hanged. 

[Tony Williams]

In a real Game of Thrones medieval world: Grey Worm avenges the murder of the queen who freed him. 

Justice for the queen he loved!

But in a real Game of Thrones medieval world: Daenerys Targaryen flies her dragons to Kings Landing and has a dracarys festival.

Missandei lives, Olenna Tyrell lives, Ellaria Sand lives, Yara’s fleet lives. 

Jon Snow goes to Kings Landing to seek help against the dead. 

Viserion and Rhaegal live!  No dragon for the Night King.  No hole in the wall.

Knees bent all around!

[RealReality]

4 hours ago, MrsR said:

You really are approaching all this from a 21st century POV. 

What right to representation? From the Westerosi Constitution? The one that doesn't give the ordinary Westorosi a vote on representation? Which amendment granted foreign soldiers a representative? Is it upheld by the Westerosi Supreme Court?

There is no concept of RIGHTS in this society for the soldier or the common man.

They didn't conquer Westeros. They burned one city to the ground. With a dragon they no longer possess. The Westerosi can move their capital.  They have armies. Do you really think that these lords would have come to their burned-out capital without a show of force. The Dothraki have no way of bringing down "stone houses" neither do The Unsullied.  They have no Drogon. And do you really think that Gendry could or would raise an army to go against the rest of  Westeros.

The worst the Dothraki could do is pillage the countryside. 

Grey Worm was demanding JUSTICE for his queen. They weren't seeking representation. The Dothraki weren't interested. I don't think they really have a concept of justice.

I'm approaching this from a point of view that makes sense.  If Dany won the land, and she did, she and by extension her people have a right to that land.  The same way the people of an independent north have a right to their land through their leader.

And even if we werent going to approach with that logic, the fact of the matter is that in terms of sheer brute Force and military ability to make the rules because you have all the power (a decidedly less modern notion) the unsullied and the dothraki have ALL the power.  

Who is going to go up against men born and bred to fight, against men who live their entire lives to fight....sansas tired force from the north, really?

Whatever land they conquered was theirs.  If everyone else wanted to take off that would be fine, I suppose, but their leader won that land, so yeah they should have had a seat at the table by modern standards or by less modern standards.

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, enoughcats said:

But Sansa seems to have known where the food is. Remembering the platitude "An army fights on its stomach" horses need quality livestock feed, and both the human armies need to be well fed or they aren't going to have the umpf to train for six hours a day (much less ballance on the back of horses and shoot arrows so very, very well.) 

Give Kings landing to the two armies?  no food, fractured water system, what ARE they going to eat?

At least the Dothraki can look forward to raping pillaging and plundering and being taken care of in their old age by their offspring.  Who is going to care for a corps of eunuchs? Who were never farmers to begin with?

Nor for women, and the definition of common man was more middle ages.....

Grey Worm's queen was killed during his watch.  In a lot of -doms, that gets the guys at the top of the chain of command killed.  Like step up and be the first one hanged. 

The dothraki could have done what others have done with land they conquered.  Left people to work the land and taken their cut.  Or, frankly, they could have taken whatever Sansa brought by force.  Does she really think her feebled crew can fight off the dothraki and the unsullied?  Does she really want them to try?  The dothraki and the unsullied have slept in worse places I am sure.  And I suspect that there was food in the city left.  Or if there wasn't food whatever riches weren't burned could be traded for food.  KL was raised, but I don't think every morsel of food was destroyed or that every piece of gold cersei kept hidden is gone.

Their leader conquered the land, so they have rights in it.  And so to just have it taken away, or to expect that these groups just gave it away kind of assumes that they don't think their sacrifice is worth very much at all.  And that's unfair.

Edited May 28, 2019 by RealReality

[RealReality]

4 hours ago, MrsR said:

You really are approaching all this from a 21st century POV. 

What right to representation? From the Westerosi Constitution? The one that doesn't give the ordinary Westorosi a vote on representation? Which amendment granted foreign soldiers a representative? Is it upheld by the Westerosi Supreme Court?

There is no concept of RIGHTS in this society for the soldier or the common man.

They didn't conquer Westeros. They burned one city to the ground. With a dragon they no longer possess. The Westerosi can move their capital.  They have armies. Do you really think that these lords would have come to their burned-out capital without a show of force. The Dothraki have no way of bringing down "stone houses" neither do The Unsullied.  They have no Drogon. And do you really think that Gendry could or would raise an army to go against the rest of  Westeros.

The worst the Dothraki could do is pillage the countryside. 

Grey Worm was demanding JUSTICE for his queen. They weren't seeking representation. The Dothraki weren't interested. I don't think they really have a concept of justice.

And if I look at a fight between tired northernmen.  Dorne with no army.  Yara who's got no dog in this fight, and the unsullied and the dothraki who spend their lives fighting and killing....my money in not on the north.

A dragon is great, but from everything the show has exhibited the dothraki and the unsullied are superior warriors with or without a dragon.

Edited May 28, 2019 by RealReality

[MrsR]

17 minutes ago, RealReality said:

And if I look at a fight between tired northernmen.

Why would they be tired? Wouldn't the Dothraki and Unsullied be tired as well?

Their Queen was dead, killed, assassinated, and they lost their greatest weapon. I believe that's a defeat. And if we're going all modern concept than were was the formal surrender? Did that happen? Doesn't seemed to. I didn't see any quills being passed around.

If the Unsullied and the Dothraki move on the North and the Reach's soldiers sneak up and captures what's left of KL does that mean that Bron is now the king?  Is that how that works?

You should watch the lore videos. It took more than one burned city for Aegon to conquer most of Westeros and he had 3 dragons.

Edited May 28, 2019 by MrsR

[RealReality]

9 minutes ago, MrsR said:

Why would they be tired? Wouldn't the Dothraki and Unsullied be tired as well?

Their Queen was dead, killed, assassinated, and they lost their greatest weapon. I believe that's a defeat. And if we're going all modern concept than were was the formal surrender? Did that happen? Doesn't seemed to. I didn't see any quills being passed around.

If the Unsullied and the Dothraki move on the North and the Reach's soldiers sneak up and captures what's left of KL does that mean that Bron is now the king?  Is that how that works?

You should watch the lore videos. It took more than one burned city for Aegon to conquer most of Westeros and he had 3 dragons.

They aren't used to fighting.  The dothraki and the unsullied are.  Therefore the northernmen would tire more easily than the dothraki and the unsullied.

I don't understand how any of this looks like a defeat for the dothraki or the unsullied.  No matter what they are both superior fighting forces who have battled successfully for years without any dragons.  

Are you positing that the north is really equally matched with men who have, from birth been raised to fight, and it was their primary job?  I mean, that just seems like I doesn't make much sense.  The northernmen have not spent nearly the time fighting that the dothraki and the unsullied have.  

Case in point, danys forces were ready to go after the battle with the dead.  Sansa's men needed a rest...for how long, she did not know.

There was a formal surrender when the bells rang.  You may not agree with moving forward with an attack after that, and I don't either, but the fact remains that the people surrendered.

As that surrender happened, Dany won, and by extension, so did her people.

17 minutes ago, MrsR said:

Why would they be tired? Wouldn't the Dothraki and Unsullied be tired as well?

Their Queen was dead, killed, assassinated, and they lost their greatest weapon. I believe that's a defeat. And if we're going all modern concept than were was the formal surrender? Did that happen? Doesn't seemed to. I didn't see any quills being passed around.

If the Unsullied and the Dothraki move on the North and the Reach's soldiers sneak up and captures what's left of KL does that mean that Bron is now the king?  Is that how that works?

You should watch the lore videos. It took more than one burned city for Aegon to conquer most of Westeros and he had 3 dragons.

They aren't used to fighting.  The dothraki and the unsullied are.  Therefore the northernmen would tire more easily than the dothraki and the unsullied.

I don't understand how any of this looks like a defeat for the dothraki or the unsullied.  No matter what they are both superior fighting forces who have battled successfully for years without any dragons.  

Are you positing that the north is really equally matched with men who have, from birth been raised to fight, and it was their primary job?  I mean, that just seems like it doesn't  make much sense.  The northernmen have not spent nearly the time fighting that the dothraki and the unsullied have.  

Case in point, danys forces were ready to go after the battle with the dead.  Sansa's men needed a rest...for how long, she did not know.

There was a formal surrender when the bells rang.  You may not agree with moving forward with an attack after that, and I don't either, but the fact remains that the people surrendered.

As that surrender happened, Dany won, and by extension, so did her people.

[MrsR]

No, the city surrended. Westeros didn't surrender, the North didn't surrender. the Vale didn't, Dorne didn't surrender, etc. A formal surrender involves paperwork and ceremony.

[Chicago Redshirt]

7 hours ago, BitterApple said:

The writing was completely non-sensical in this entire area. Dany made the comment that Jon had more love in Westeros than her, but did he really? Outside of the North, did any of the other Kingdoms know or care enough about Jon Snow to say, "Yep, he's our guy!."

Dany -- as far as we were shown -- basically had no love in Westeros. Despite the notion that some people called Robert "usurper" (confirmed by Robert himself), we saw no direct evidence that anyone wanted a Targaryen restoration for the love of the Targs. And anyone who did presumably would be just as happy with Aegon VI as with Dany.

Compare/contrast this with the love she saw in Essos. No one in Westeros is lifting her up and calling her "mother" and saying all her titles. People are not breaking their necks to be romantically involved with her in Westeros, excluding Jon, who ultimately rejects her romantically. Even when she is responsible in large part for saving all of humanity, the Northerners gave more props to Jon and Arya than to her. 

So even if Jon's love is confined to the North and a smattering of Targaryen loyalists, that's more love than Dany was ever going to see.

But on top of that, Jon is probably an easier sell than Dany, because a) he's male b) he's won battles through conventional means c) he was raised a Stark so he's not as likely to go mad king d) he's the kind of person who is not full of himself ("like you could grab a beer with him.")

[RealReality]

7 minutes ago, MrsR said:

No, the city surrended. Westeros didn't surrender, the North didn't surrender. the Vale didn't, Dorne didn't surrender, etc. A formal surrender involves paperwork and ceremony.

Exactly, so that land they are meeting on...belongs to Dany, and by extension, her people.  As Jon killed their leader, they have a right to demand he be killed and to carry out that order.  He killed their leader on their land.  

And I don't think anyone besides sansas hypothetical army that was "sitting on ready" would have cared. And that's a maybe because he spent most his time at the wall and from what I can see he didn't have a ton of interaction with the commonfolk.  So after surviving the dead, and having to March and having to fight again when they have a life to get back to, are they really going to want to risk their hides for Jon snow?  It might be a tough sell.

And if the seven kingdoms, or six want to keep kings landing, the unsullied and the dothraki deserve a seat at the table in making the decision on the next leader.  And they had no reason to slink off and away from their land.  

Like you said, if they wanted to move the seat of the six/five/seven kingdoms to someplace other than Kings Landing they could have done that too.  

Edited May 28, 2019 by RealReality

[PatsyandEddie]

But the Dothraki and Unsullied did leave after the council meeting which indicates to me that, with Jon being punished, AFATC, it’s over. The only who looked sullen was Grey Worm. The Dothraki that appeared were meandering around the pier. No one tried to kill Jon as he walked by. 

The Dothraki are nomads, not farmers. They want to go home to their own families to find a new khal. The Unsullied are a war machine. Grey Worm is taking them to Naath to protect the people there as he promised Missandei. 

We also only heard from Sansa about the North’s soldiers needing to rest. Dany just wanted to get going and made no mention of how ,just perhaps, her own troops might need rest. 

I honestly don’t understand this “ argument”. Both sides have their own POV and can give justified comments. We saw how it happened and nothing we say is going to change it. 

I'll just get off my senior’s soapbox and bow out. 

[MarySNJ]

9 hours ago, RealReality said:

First off, if I were grey worm or the unsullied I would tell Sansa and her hypothetical army "ready to fight" they they could fuck right off.  No way do northern fighters stand a chance against two forces who are bred to fight and kill.

pfffft at a civil war.  Yara was there for Dany, why would she fight to keep Jon alive.  I'm not sure dorne has an army.  Is ANYONE invested in Jon snow besides Sansa, Arya, Tyrion and bran?  Invested enough to risk their men dying for him?  So the north would fight if Jon was killed, and again, good luck Sansa with that.  

Not only did grey worm and the unsullied have a right to demand and execute Jon, they had every right to be a part of the discussion for new leadership.

Why would they accept him going to the wall?  Maybe grey worm figures it's worse than death, but grey worm doesn't strike me as that kind of guy.  

And, IMO, no one really had the numbers to challenge them....oh besides sansas northern army....ready for battle....against the dothraki and the unsullied 🙄.  Yara probably has a number of men left, but why would she care if Jon snow died?

I think Grey Worm was just ready to fuck off back to Essos, or Naath, or somewhere NOT cold, shitty, backward Westeros. Having to fight a war with the remaining Northmen and their allies would mean sticking around a place they don’t care to be, so let Westerosi justice take care of Jon so the Unsullied can move on to more welcoming and warmer environments. Just my 2 cents... 

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, PatsyandEddie said:

But the Dothraki and Unsullied did leave after the council meeting which indicates to me that, with Jon being punished, AFATC, it’s over. The only who looked sullen was Grey Worm. The Dothraki that appeared were meandering around the pier. No one tried to kill Jon as he walked by. 

The Dothraki are nomads, not farmers. They want to go home to their own families to find a new khal. The Unsullied are a war machine. Grey Worm is taking them to Naath to protect the people there as he promised Missandei. 

We also only heard from Sansa about the North’s soldiers needing to rest. Dany just wanted to get going and made no mention of how ,just perhaps, her own troops might need rest. 

I honestly don’t understand this “ argument”. Both sides have their own POV and can give justified comments. We saw how it happened and nothing we say is going to change it. 

I'll just get off my senior’s soapbox and bow out. 

And that, to me, makes no sense.  The dothraki followed their leader and laid down their lives.  So did the unsullied. 

And then, against the passion that made them choos to follow this leader, risk their lives for this leader to capture this land that was part of a shared vision....after risking their lives they are all.....shoulder shrugs and "oh well, shucks, whatcha gonna do?  I mean I think some lady says she has some dudes ready to fight....we should just all give up now and basically settle for whatever these people are willing to give us"

It makes me see the point of view that others have on the racial issues brought up here.  Why would the dothraki and the unsullied risk so much and just settle for what ser davos and the weakened men from the north have deigned to give them.  Why would they just leave this land after all they sacrificed for it.  And why would they even be expected to.  For convenience...so bran the boring who had zero right to be anywhere and was lady nor lord of anything besides turning into a bird could be crowned king?

The dothraki live to fight but they want nothing for the lives they have lost.  They will just settle for what weaker forces will hand over to them?

I would even go as far as to say either the dothraki OR the unsullied could have creamed sansas northern men.

Edited May 29, 2019 by RealReality

[Umbelina]

There REALLY aren't that many of them left. 

Of course, with the endless shifting of the numbers of Dany's forces in the past few episodes?  Who knows?

Westeros is a huge country.  No one is going to accept conditions or rule from a bunch of invaders with no claims, and NO DRAGONS to force the issue.

Furthermore, they are (both groups) used to following a leader.  Grey Worm was promoted the day Dany died as leader of her forces, but really, what experience does he have in anything but withstanding pain and fighting to the death?  He wouldn't know where to start.

The Dothraki?  Now that Dany is gone probably want to get home to their families and friends.  What they do know of the place is cold, devastated, and full of monsters, and where they are?  Has little left unburnt to plunder, and very little food.  They only came because of Dany, she's dead, time to go home.  IF they even knew about warm Dorne?  Maybe they would go there, but they don't.

Both forces combined could not win against an entire continent without Dragons to aid them.  They have a few thousand men left.

Could they do damage?  Of course.  Would they kill Jon?  Maybe.  Neither group is capable of ruling, and I seriously doubt either has interest in it.

The entire last season was silly really, so it's hard to add "logic" all of a sudden.

[RealReality]

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

There REALLY aren't that many of them left. 

Of course, with the endless shifting of the numbers of Dany's forces in the past few episodes?  Who knows?

Westeros is a huge country.  No one is going to accept conditions or rule from a bunch of invaders with no claims, and NO DRAGONS to force the issue.

Furthermore, they are (both groups) used to following a leader.  Grey Worm was promoted the day Dany died as leader of her forces, but really, what experience does he have in anything but withstanding pain and fighting to the death?  He wouldn't know where to start.

The Dothraki?  Now that Dany is gone probably want to get home to their families and friends.  What they do know of the place is cold, devastated, and full of monsters, and where they are?  Has little left unburnt to plunder, and very little food.  They only came because of Dany, she's dead, time to go home.  IF they even knew about warm Dorne?  Maybe they would go there, but they don't.

Both forces combined could not win against an entire continent without Dragons to aid them.  They have a few thousand men left.

Could they do damage?  Of course.  Would they kill Jon?  Maybe.  Neither group is capable of ruling, and I seriously doubt either has interest in it.

The entire last season was silly really, so it's hard to add "logic" all of a sudden.

In the words of my least favorite Atlanta housewife, who is going to check them?

The north....really? They are independent now, what do they care? Dorne (seriously though, does dorne have an army?).  What kingdom is going to take them on?  You want to have your six kingdoms, that's fine, do it from your own land.  Dany won kings landing, not fair and square, but the city surrendered to her.

It's likely that many of the dothraki and unsullied survived kings landing....they were unleashed on kinda trained soliders who didn't have a passion for their leader and a belief in her cause.  They also weren't being targeted by a dragon. The north aren't used to a lifestyle of fighting and they DO have wives and families they gotta get back to.  The northmen are probably way ready to go home.

Both the unsullied and the dothraki have been sold to the viewer as a superior fighting force.  We've never seen anything besides the night king fight that suggests otherwise.  

Does anyone want to risk their men for kings landing?  Really?  So Tyrion can get that chair he really likes?  THEY should go find other land, not everyone else.

Have the dothraki ever given any indication that they want to get home to their wives?  Or was someone else who wasn't even dothraki allowed to speak on their behalf?  They were in it for the Long haul and to assume they can't function politically when they seem able to follow a leader seems odd.

So, we are going to assume that they laid down their lives to help win this land, but shoulder shrug....."someone killed our leader so we're cool with that and whatever land you'll let us have, even though we have a right to this land, we could definitely defend this land and hold this land, but hey, our lives are worth so little that we essentially laid them down for nothing.....time to let the people who are...let's face it...all white, except for prince of dorne take back this land we risked our life for.  I mean we don't even have to be consulted or asked!  We will just happily roll over and hand you back the land you want.....Can we roll over so you tickle our bellies?"

Logically, the dothraki and the unsullied had no reason and no need to leave.  Why should they be forced off land they won?  Because someone who wasn't dothraki said they wanted to leave?

I also don't accept the notion that the dothraki and the unsullied could not find a leader amongst them.  Most military organizations have a number of leaders, who can function on the political arena.  I believe a number of successful ancient Roman emperor's were military leaders and some who were common men who came up through the ranks. So, I don't think that it's fair to say that because a group is full of warriors that they are politically inept.

Also, nomadic groups settle all the time.  I believe this is part of Viking history, but it's been a long time since I watched that documentary.  

Edited May 29, 2019 by RealReality

[Hava]

I'm still grappling with Dany's ending, and still find it unsatisfying. 

To those stating that Dany would never be a "good" queen, starting with her sense of entitlement to the Iron Throne, what is your response to those seemingly-good characters who thought that Jon was the "rightful heir"? Is that also not entitlement?

And how can Tyrion be the "good guy" who convinces Jon to kill Dany, when Tyrion helped his evil family at Blackwater and devised the use of wildfire to kill their enemies?

[izabella]

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

Logically, the dothraki and the unsullied had no reason and no need to leave.  Why should they be forced off land they won?  Because someone who wasn't dothraki said they wanted to leave?

It's my understanding the only reason they were there was to help Dany conquer.  The Unsullied followed her because she freed them.  The Dothraki followed her because she burned their leaders.  And she had dragons and was magical.  But she was defeated in her attempt to conquer and is no more. Their purpose in following her is no more, either.  They did not share her vision.  They followed her vision because it was hers.  The Dothraki had no interest in the Iron Chair or Westeros.  The Unsullied are a mystery because the way they are described, it's impossible to tell what they think or want.  I have no idea what they will do in Essos, either.

[MarySNJ]

4 hours ago, izabella said:

It's my understanding the only reason they were there was to help Dany conquer.  The Unsullied followed her because she freed them.  The Dothraki followed her because she burned their leaders.  And she had dragons and was magical.  But she was defeated in her attempt to conquer and is no more. Their purpose in following her is no more, either.  They did not share her vision.  They followed her vision because it was hers.  The Dothraki had no interest in the Iron Chair or Westeros.  The Unsullied are a mystery because the way they are described, it's impossible to tell what they think or want.  I have no idea what they will do in Essos, either.

We do know what Grey Worm thinks, at least. He made it clear to Missandei that he wanted to leave “this place” after they helped Daenerys win her throne. Since Grey Worm was named the leader of Daenerys’ forces, I would think he’s calling the shots about where those forces would go next. 

There’s some question about what would happen to the Dothraki if someone kills their khal. Some say they would seek revenge, while others have say they will follow the victor as the new Khal. That would make Jon their Khal but I don’t think they would be heading North to follow him.

Just spitballing, but Daenerys rode Drogon who might be seen as “the Stallion who mounts the world” of prophesy. Since Drogon destroyed the Iron Throne and flew East after Daenerys’ death, maybe the Dothraki figure the iron throne is moot and they should go East too. 

What I wonder is if the Unsullied and Dothraki learned that Jon had a better claim to the throne than Daenerys. How many of the Lords got the word from Varys before he died? Not that it matters because he’s an admitted regicide and kinslayer, and being the painfully honorable man he is, Jon probably feels like he deserves to be punished. But I wonder what would have happened if Jon had told everyone that he was willing to disclaim the throne for Daenerys when he believed she would be protector of the realm, but had to take action to stop her when she started targeting the innocent and burning cities and basically doing the opposite of protecting the realm.

It bothers me that no one at the Lords council ever even considered Jon’s claim and that his parentage never amounted to anything except a wedge between him and Dany and maybe the ability to ride Rhaegal for a brief time. 

[queenanne]

17 hours ago, MrsR said:

You really are approaching all this from a 21st century POV. 

What right to representation? From the Westerosi Constitution? The one that doesn't give the ordinary Westorosi a vote on representation? Which amendment granted foreign soldiers a representative? Is it upheld by the Westerosi Supreme Court?

There is no concept of RIGHTS in this society for the soldier or the common man.

They didn't conquer Westeros. They burned one city to the ground. With a dragon they no longer possess. The Westerosi can move their capital.  They have armies. Do you really think that these lords would have come to their burned-out capital without a show of force. The Dothraki have no way of bringing down "stone houses" neither do The Unsullied.  They have no Drogon. And do you really think that Gendry could or would raise an army to go against the rest of  Westeros.

The worst the Dothraki could do is pillage the countryside. 

Grey Worm was demanding JUSTICE for his queen. They weren't seeking representation. The Dothraki weren't interested. I don't think they really have a concept of justice.

Absolutely.  In my interpretation of GoT world, the Unsullied are Spartans, Dothraki are Mongols, and the townspeople of KL et al are, well... medieval serfs.  This behavior is right in line with droit du seigneur.  The serfs did everything only at the pleasure of the feudal lord.   Thus I don't find it shocking they weren't particularly empowered.

[Constantinople]

I suppose that life is irregular - Samwell Tarly

That explains why Sam opted for Bran

Edited May 29, 2019 by Constantinople

[Bali]

13 hours ago, MrsR said:

If the Unsullied and the Dothraki move on the North and the Reach's soldiers sneak up and captures what's left of KL does that mean that Bron is now the king?  Is that how that works?

You should watch the lore videos. It took more than one burned city for Aegon to conquer most of Westeros and he had 3 dragons.

Nope- we are stuck with Bran the Broken. Let's stop trying to find any way around that horrible fact.

Anyway- here is the thing: We don't have a clue how many Unsullied or Dothraki are left, because that number changed depending on the scene. Like literally- they said half are gone, then a quick boat ride later, there were more than there ever were? Really? Huh? Then there are lots of Northmen- then none, then who knows?

Does anyone think that Sansa only brought her fighters? I think that Jon was on the line. Sam had whatever fighters he had there too. Robin brought the knights of the Vale because he would have been told to.

We do know that Wesseros views the Unsullied and Dothraki as savages. They will band to fight that. So, those Assface Lords at the council? They brought as many fighting men as they could.

So, we have a two WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE armies that may or may not feel like fighting. We don't know because the show runners wanted stupid King Bran and were willing to poop on us to get that. From the discussion here, it's pretty obvious that we have already put more thought into this than the show runners.

There was a whole lot of stupid in the finale. There was a even more- we're just going to skip to the Cliff Notes version here. Actually, I don't even think it was as detailed as Cliff Notes, I think we just saw a very basic outline. OK- here are a few high points, you don't need to understand it. There are more plot holes than there was plot. We can argue forever, because there really isn't enough to go on. We are having to make WAY too much up. It's really quite a sad pathetic ending here. 

[Nashville]

22 hours ago, RealReality said:

First off, if I were grey worm or the unsullied I would tell Sansa and her hypothetical army "ready to fight" they they could fuck right off.  No way do northern fighters stand a chance against two forces who are bred to fight and kill.

Depends totally upon the numbers involved - i.e., the ratio of Westeros fighters to foreigners.  The Unsullied are an elite group of fighters, to be sure; even the best can be beaten by an inferior force, though, if the inferior force has numbers sufficient to overwhelm.  Say on average, each individual Unsullied can kill 20 Westerosi before becoming a casualty themself.  Great numbers to to be sure - but if the Unsullied are outnumbered 30-to-1 and are swarmed, they’re still going to lose in the end.

[RealReality]

6 hours ago, izabella said:

It's my understanding the only reason they were there was to help Dany conquer.  The Unsullied followed her because she freed them.  The Dothraki followed her because she burned their leaders.  And she had dragons and was magical.  But she was defeated in her attempt to conquer and is no more. Their purpose in following her is no more, either.  They did not share her vision.  They followed her vision because it was hers.  The Dothraki had no interest in the Iron Chair or Westeros.  The Unsullied are a mystery because the way they are described, it's impossible to tell what they think or want.  I have no idea what they will do in Essos, either.

But then whatever the vision was was important enough to die for.  Whether because it was danys or because it was there.  It was worth their life.  And they were okay just handing it over, because...stuff? 

Dany didn't die after some great battle, she was gut stabbed by her nephewlover.  I don't think the dothraki or the unsullied would be okay with that at all.

Even if they didn't want to live on the land, they weren't even consulted, we will never know how they felt about the land they risked their lives for.  Perhaps, as cultures before then, they were ready to try and settle down.  Perhaps they were going to remake kings Landing as something more comfortable.  

But no, apparently they risked their lives for it, and, without anyone really asking or consulting them, they have to leave.  Oh, and, the guy who killed their leader gets off pretty much Scot free, except he doesn't get to be king.

I don't believe anyone from the dothraki even got to talk during the episode.

[RealReality]

2 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Depends totally upon the numbers involved - i.e., the ratio of Westeros fighters to foreigners.  The Unsullied are an elite group of fighters, to be sure; even the best can be beaten by an inferior force, though, if the inferior force has numbers sufficient to overwhelm.  Say on average, each individual Unsullied can kill 20 Westerosi before becoming a casualty themself.  Great numbers to to be sure - but if the Unsullied are outnumbered 30-to-1 and are swarmed, they’re still going to lose in the end.

True, the north is big, but after the battle of the night king and after a few people just take off because they don't want to be guy number one or two killed by an unsullied....I surmise sansas numbers are not big enough to win on sheer magnitude.

And again, if the north is independent they have no real dog in the fight.  Unless the fight is to save Jon......and I'm not sure how many townsfolk of the north are in the mood to risk their lives for his life.

[Nashville]

7 minutes ago, RealReality said:

True, the north is big, but after the battle of the night king and after a few people just take off because they don't want to be guy number one or two killed by an unsullied....I surmise sansas numbers are not big enough to win on sheer magnitude.

One guess is as good as another - but why assume the Northerners are the only ones prepared to fight?  That’s why I was saying “Westeros” instead of “the North” in my earlier comments.  The Unsullied and the Dothraki both are not some scrappy band of indigenous underdog rebels opposing the big bad evil imperialist Empire of the Kingdoms; they are an external invading force of mercenaries brought in from overseas to pursue a dream of imperial succession which died with Dany.  The Westerosi are the indigenous population - and since U+D just participated in the razing and total destruction of a Westeros city which is most decidedly NOT in the North, the rest of Westeros might judge it in their best interests to fight in the defense of their homeland as well.

7 minutes ago, RealReality said:

And again, if the north is independent they have no real dog in the fight.  Unless the fight is to save Jon......and I'm not sure how many townsfolk of the north are in the mood to risk their lives for his life.

Peaceful acquisition of Northern independence - peace for all Westeros, actually - is contingent upon all parties honoring the agreement made in the Dragon Pit.  If the eastern invaders were to move in such a way as to challenge that agreement, then the entirety of Westeros is liable to take issue - and take up arms to defend the peace accord.

[Lokiberry]

32 minutes ago, RealReality said:

But then whatever the vision was was important enough to die for.  Whether because it was danys or because it was there.  It was worth their life.  And they were okay just handing it over, because...stuff? 

Dany didn't die after some great battle, she was gut stabbed by her nephewlover.  I don't think the dothraki or the unsullied would be okay with that at all.

Remember when Drogo fell off his horse and his khalasar fucked off with a new leader? They didn't even stick around for the funeral. The Dothraki turn on their leaders if they show weakness, and getting shanked by her boyfriend was weakness. 

The Unsullied may honor Dany's memory, but the Dothraki stopped caring about her before her body was even cold. 

[Bannon]

On 5/28/2019 at 7:29 AM, Bali said:

Well, according to the first season rules- and according to Robert B. It takes six weeks to get from Winterfell to KL. So, since Sansa is at KL it was at least 6 weeks from the war to the meeting.

Unless she being carried on the back of a running Gendry, which means, according to "Beyond the Wall", that the distance might be traversed in approximately the same time it takes to drive from Denver to Kansas City on I-70, in a Corvette doing 95 the entire way.

[screamin]

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

True, the north is big, but after the battle of the night king and after a few people just take off because they don't want to be guy number one or two killed by an unsullied....I surmise sansas numbers are not big enough to win on sheer magnitude.

And again, if the north is independent they have no real dog in the fight.  Unless the fight is to save Jon......and I'm not sure how many townsfolk of the north are in the mood to risk their lives for his life.

Mustn't forget that the Vale has also been Sansa's ally - and the Lord of the Vale wouldn't travel to a meeting with an army of 'savages' unless he brought a goodly force of his own to protect him. The Prince of Dorne is also likely to have brought his own forces with him - and while the Dornish would have been happy to ally with Dany, allying with her dragonless foreign armies to no stated purpose wouldn't be as appealing.

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Lokiberry said:

Remember when Drogo fell off his horse and his khalasar fucked off with a new leader? They didn't even stick around for the funeral. The Dothraki turn on their leaders if they show weakness, and getting shanked by her boyfriend was weakness. 

The Unsullied may honor Dany's memory, but the Dothraki stopped caring about her before her body was even cold. 

I see the Unsullied as an army like the Golden Company.  They were a slave army, so not paid nor free to walk away, but they were just an army to do someone's bidding and not for any other reason.  That's what they were raised for, and that's why they existed - the slaver made money selling them to people who wanted armies.  Dany freed them, but then they agreed to fight to help her conquer Westeros, which is still not something they would have chosen to do without her wanting to conquer.  And like the Golden Company, they had no dog in this fight except for pay/as Dany's willing army.

Completely agree about the Dothraki not giving a shit about fallen Khals.  They didn't care about Drogo dying.  A dead Khal just means time for a new Khal, one who can fight and win the role.

[MrsR]

2 hours ago, Bali said:

Like literally- they said half are gone, then a quick boat ride later, there were more than there ever were? Really? Huh?

 Well, actually that is correct. You have to factor in the garrisons that were at Dragonstone. Dany would not have left her home castle unprotected. At least a quarter of force may have been left behind.