S04.E20: More Harm Than Good

[WendyCR72]

This will air on May 8th.

Dr. Charles and Dr. Manning disagree on how to handle a patient who they discover is poisoning herself. Dr. Rhodes throws some serious accusations at Dr. Bekker. Dr. Halstead has suspicions about Natalie's new boyfriend. Dr. Choi tends to Bernie.

[Ohwell]

Oooh, I'm interested in what Halstead finds out about Natalie's new boyfriend.  I knew he was too good to be true.

Not interested in yet more Rhodes/Bekker squabbling.

[langford peel]

On 4/26/2019 at 8:25 PM, Ohwell said:

Oooh, I'm interested in what Halstead finds out about Natalie's new boyfriend.  I knew he was too good to be true.

That he has very poor taste in women.

[Ohwell]

Dr. Latham!

[Reality police]

Boy howdy, Natalie doesn't like to be told no, does she! Go Dr Charles!

[Pippin]

I hope to hell I never get a doc like Manning. Jesus, what's next? Ignoring a DNR because she thinks the patient has a few good weeks left?

Emily and Bernie need to go away.  Now.  And April needs to go to Al-Anon.  All she's doing right now is enabling an addict.

Connor wrong about the patient was a refreshing change, but he's probably right about Natalie's new beau. Unfortunately.  

[preeya]

Manning is a fuknidiot!

[rhys]

Ya know I like Chicago & haven't been there in years. I'd like to go back for another visit but I have my trepidation based on this squirrelly tv show. I'd worry for my health in case I need an ED.

[preeya]

44 minutes ago, rhys said:

Ya know I like Chicago & haven't been there in years. I'd like to go back for another visit but I have my trepidation based on this squirrelly tv show. I'd worry for my health in case I need an ED.

That old saying: "many a thing said in jest . . . . ."

[WendyCR72]

44 minutes ago, rhys said:

Ya know I like Chicago & haven't been there in years. I'd like to go back for another visit but I have my trepidation based on this squirrelly tv show. I'd worry for my health in case I need an ED.

Simple cure: Go watch ER on Hulu and remember how a real hospital drama was done! (Even if it, too, got a bit weird in the later years, i.e. the Chopper of Doom.)

[preeya]

2 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Dr. Latham!

Just a cameo. He's a Marine defense attorney now working for Dana Delaney.

[LittleIggy]

I was so happy Halstead was completely wrong about the cousins. That was a sweet scene when they bonded over the picture of them as kids.

What kind of a jerk lies to a little kid about having a ranch and horses said kid can ride. One who dates Natalie? In that case, never mind. Carry on. 😏

[preeya]

40 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

What kind of a jerk lies to a little kid about having a ranch and horses said kid can ride. One who dates Natalie? In that case, never mind. Carry on. 😏

 

That's the "birds of a feather" theory.

[Guildford]

Overwrought claptrap....that's all.

[Ohwell]

13 hours ago, preeya said:

Just a cameo. He's a Marine defense attorney now working for Dana Delaney.

I know.  He's on a show called The Code.  I was just glad to see him, if only for a moment.

[Driad]

This show is annoying, but it's easy to watch in one way.  On some shows you might wonder, "Is that doctor doing the right thing?"  On this show you see Natalie and don't need to wonder.

[Mrs Shibbles]

So wouldn’t you think that if someone was poisoning themselves in order to draw attention to the state of the environment, that they would tell everyone why they are doing what they are doing and not keep silent and allow the doctors to try to diagnose and fix what was wrong, all while occupying a hospital bed?  How does that get your message across?  Lazy lazy writing on this show.  

[langford peel]

50 minutes ago, Mrs Shibbles said:

So wouldn’t you think that if someone was poisoning themselves in order to draw attention to the state of the environment, that they would tell everyone why they are doing what they are doing and not keep silent and allow the doctors to try to diagnose and fix what was wrong, all while occupying a hospital bed?  How does that get your message across?  Lazy lazy writing on this show.  

They are not just lazy. They are the hackiest of hacks.

How many times will Manning break laws and walk off Scott free? Isn't Dr Charles at risk for not reporting her? Isn't the nurse also at risk? I had a friend whose brother didn't report when a doctor broke the law and he lost his job and had a chance at being prosecuted if he didn't testify. I thought there were consequences when doctors break the law?

[Ohwell]

4 minutes ago, langford peel said:

They are not just lazy. They are the hackiest of hacks.

How many times will Manning break laws and walk off Scott free? Isn't Dr Charles at risk for not reporting her? Isn't the nurse also at risk? I had a friend whose brother didn't report when a doctor broke the law and he lost his job and had a chance at being prosecuted if he didn't testify. I thought there were consequences when doctors break the law?

Yes, and didn't Dr. Choi get in trouble (nasty side-eye looks from April) for actually doing the right thing and reporting something a couple episodes ago?

[langford peel]

These morons look at the law as mere guidelines that can be safely ignored at will. 

The red headed dunce was willing to let the kidney guy die because of his suspicions until he was proved wrong. But he easily could have thrown a roadblock into the surgery in some crazy way and all the rest of the morons would have helped him because the law means nothing at Chicago Med.

[alexvillage]

These people have no business being doctors. They don’t respect patients, are arrogant pricks.

Dr. Charles: Natalie, you need to respect the patient’s choices. She has self-determination, knows what she is doing.

Also Dr. Charles: hey, Monique, lets dope her and make her incapacitated, then we can violate her body autonomy.

Dr. Charles again: see, Natalie, that’s how you do it. You pretend you will respect the patient’s choice, lie to them, make them sleep, declare then incapacitated to make decisions.  Then we can walk all over their agency. 

Natalie: oh Dr. Charles! I’ve learnt so much from you today! I am sorry I didn’t ignored the girl’s right more efficiently! 

I hope the the girl comes back with a cake loaded with thallium for those two asshats, to thank them for saving her life. That would be a good episode. 

[SG11]

When Dr ILiveInTheERNotThePsychDept told Manning she could do what she wanted, I thought the show could be saved. She reacted like a Child Psychopath who wasn’t allowed to pull the wings off a fly. I thought she was going to blow a gasket. Then Doc DB demonstrated the proper way to ignore a patients wishes. Horrible.

Later, he mentions her 2 “missteps.” Huh? Those were errors, she’s pathological about controlling everything as she wants it, end of story. She didn’t know what he was talking about.

Everything about this stupid episode was stupid, including creepy Asian family.

[SG11]

I can’t believe what a waste of looks Manning’s character is.

Shes just a horrible jerk in every sense of the word. I hope the creepy new boyfriend does something over the top.

He ginger ex is a dope, though.

[helpmerhonda]

Natalie is a self-righteous asshole.

The whole time I am watching this show I am thinking, "I hate all of these people."

[izabella]

On 5/9/2019 at 9:01 PM, SG11 said:

Later, he mentions her 2 “missteps.” Huh? Those were errors, she’s pathological about controlling everything as she wants it, end of story. She didn’t know what he was talking about.

Neither did I, because she's been misstepping every episode.  Which two times is he counting?

[alexvillage]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

That patient was mentally ill and bought into a cult.  She was irrational, out of control, and spiraling.  Killing herself would have solved nothing.   Most people who would have heard about her story would have assumed that she was mentally ill, and they would be right.  That said, she would eventually kill herself anyway, so unless the doctors were prepared to find a way to have her institutionalized they were wasting their time.

IMO, there is no doubt that the people (cult leaders) that were running that website were in no way going to kill themselves.   That's what that cult's followers are for.

The only way to try and get that woman to change her mind was to ask her why weren't the cult leaders killing themselves?   But she was so irrational, she probably would have died before the doctors had any hope of changing her mind about killing herself.

Armchair diagnosis does not count, that's stigma and bias. Even if she was mentally ill, people who do have a medical diagnosis don't automatically lose their rights. Self-determination is a right. It is an absurd and dangerous situation when rights are simply stripped from people based on what others want them to look like or act, as absurd it might sound to the majority. There is a process, it is violated all the time, but it exists. And the episode showed how people who do have a real diagnosis are abused for the convenience of others.

What the cult was is not very different from some people in EVERY major religion. They are not sent to the psych ward for professing so assertively things that science tells us to be untrue, for example. Just because the character belonged to a cult that is on the fringes, it does't men it was less harmful. Besides, some religious people do hurt others in the name of their supreme being - and get away with it with not even a slap in the wrist. The characters were not hurting others. How to judge which one is worse?

[izabella]

This episode made me wonder why people always try to save people who are trying to commit suicide.   I get that families want them to live and that they want to help them get better from whatever the reason is they want to die, but if they themselves swallowed a bunch of pills because they wanted to die, isn't everyone ignoring what they want in order to save them by pumping their stomachs?  Does everyone who commits suicide have to fill out a DNR and tape it to their foreheads, and would that be sufficient for medical professionals to let them die?

[alexvillage]

19 minutes ago, izabella said:

This episode made me wonder why people always try to save people who are trying to commit suicide.   I get that families want them to live and that they want to help them get better from whatever the reason is they want to die, but if they themselves swallowed a bunch of pills because they wanted to die, isn't everyone ignoring what they want in order to save them by pumping their stomachs?  Does everyone who commits suicide have to fill out a DNR and tape it to their foreheads, and would that be sufficient for medical professionals to let them die?

Because suicide is an act of desperation, for lack of a better word. It is hopelessness and human beings don't like to deal with lack of hope. On the other hand, nobody should be left so isolated from support that ending everything is the only thing they see as viable. It is too complex to even try to understand. There are studies (or maybe theories) that show that people who survive suicide attempts are grateful for the failure. I am comfortable with the default being trying to save people.

In the episode it wasn't even a suicide attempt as a hopelessness thing, it was a protest, extreme as it was, but a protest. Much like monks setting themselves on fire. Not far from prisoners hunger strikes that seek to call attention to serious issues - the inmates don't really want to die, they want to make people know what is going on and pay attention, or get the system to change, at least a little bit. They actually want to be able to live but they don't have nothing else to lose. Those girls in the episode felt the same way, for whatever reason, but that's how they felt. 

[WinJet0819]

On 5/9/2019 at 4:00 PM, langford peel said:

These morons look at the law as mere guidelines that can be safely ignored at will. 

The red headed dunce was willing to let the kidney guy die because of his suspicions until he was proved wrong. But he easily could have thrown a roadblock into the surgery in some crazy way and all the rest of the morons would have helped him because the law means nothing at Chicago Med.

It seems Med has a common ground with Grey's when it comes to considering the law as guidelines. Grey's likes to continually violate HIPAA, and Med likes to force treatment on patients who have flat out refused. 

[starri]

I don't know why anyone would want to work at Med.  With the exception of Maggie, everyone seems to hate everyone else.

I'm at a point where I feel like I like Becker more than Connor.  She may annoying, but she's not as horribly self-righteous.  I don't like this feeling.

[cathmed]

Typical, boring and tepid episode:

Natalie – overstepping (again) with a patient

Halstead – misjudging kidney donor and recipient but of course he’ll be right about Phillip.  Is Phillip a pathological or compulsive liar?

Glad to see Dr. Latham if only for a brief moment.  Sorry there was no Robyn this week.

Since Bekker is being written out – why are they trying to redeem her now?  Don’t fall for it Conner – trust your instincts!   From what I had read on many website synopses, it stated Bekker had slept with the father and I still believe she was behind all the other incidents that occurred, e.g., finger nick in OR, Robyn’s fake kidnapping, etc.     How are they going to write out Rhekker?  I truly hope there’s no car accident or anything tragic for him at least.   She – I could care less--just make sure she’s gone permanently.

April – her usual passive-aggressive self

Bernie & Emily – please get rid of those two.   Rather cheeky of Bernie to ask for Viagra; you could see the disgust on Choi’s face!

If this is the best the writers can do for an almost penultimate episode, they need to stop now!   It will be quite easy for me to stop watching weekly if they don’t come up with better storylines, and revamp the characters, for S5.

[SnarkySheep]

On 5/9/2019 at 4:56 PM, Ohwell said:

Yes, and didn't Dr. Choi get in trouble (nasty side-eye looks from April) for actually doing the right thing and reporting something a couple episodes ago?

And let's not forget Will in Season 1 - he had legal repercussions and nearly lost his job for disregarding a patient's wishes. But Natalie does it all the time and gets the proverbial slap on the wrist.

[Reality police]

It would not do for me to end up at Med. If the doctors went against my wishes like they do every week there would be Hell to pay! If it wasn't my mouth taking them out one of my crew that watches over me would. They are a nasty bunch that protect me when I can't. Natalie wouldn't know what hit her. And then the lawyers would start! 

[Court]

Fucking Natalie. 

I hated everyone on this episode except Choi. He's not wrong! 

Also, Halstead is awful but I had the same thought as he did about Owen and creepy bf. Not only is it quick to be introducing her kid, he's just getting used to Dr. Red being gone. 

[Ohwell]

I thought it was pretty telling that Natalie's kid said he liked playing with Dr. Red, and not the creepy bf.  Natalie should pay attention to her kid's spidey senses.

[statsgirl]

How is Choi allowed to treat his sister's SO? Isn't that against medical ethics?

Speaking of ethics, how is Dr. Charles any  better than Natalie? Meadow told everyone that she didn't want any treatment for the thallium; making her unconscioius so that she can't say it and then put a feeding tube in her throat doesn't make it okay. I hope she sues the hospital.

I would hope that this is the end of Gwen, who has been an awful fail as a character but I'm afraid

Spoiler

it's going to be the end of Connor instead.

[Guildford]

6 hours ago, statsgirl said:

How is Choi allowed to treat his sister's SO? Isn't that against medical ethics?

Everything in this show is against Medical Ethics

[Chick2Chic]

On 5/13/2019 at 10:07 AM, cathmed said:

Since Bekker is being written out – why are they trying to redeem her now?  Don’t fall for it Conner – trust your instincts!   From what I had read on many website synopses, it stated Bekker had slept with the father and I still believe she was behind all the other incidents that occurred, e.g., finger nick in OR, Robyn’s fake kidnapping, etc.     How are they going to write out Rhekker?  I truly hope there’s no car accident or anything tragic for him at least.   She – I could care less--just make sure she’s gone permanently.

I agree with all of this. 

Also, this episode was terrible.

[Chas411]

I liked that Halsteads case had a happy resolution with the two cousins.

.... Meadow was an idiot and incredibly unlikeable but nobody on this show is as awful as Natalie. I was delighted that Charles told her to fuck off and then when she finally half arsedlly apologized he called her out on previously misstepping. 

Poor Choi having to lower himself for Bernie and Emily’s drama that April happily enables. His face though when Bernie started talking to him about his erectile dysfunction. 

[Superpole2000]

It's been a while since I've seen an episode of television so poor that I start laughing at it. But there I was, totally amused by the Angels of Earth actress (Meadow?) attempting to speak through pain while suspenseful music signaled to us that Natalie was about to break another rule. Then there was Big Red using charades (with props!) to try to communicate to the Moldovan patient who knew very little English. I also enjoyed the unnamed hospital worker's reaction to seeing a patient with a plastic bag over their head. "Dr. Choi, come quick!" Did she think taking a plastic bag off of someone's head required med school and years of experience?

[mrsbagnet]

On 5/26/2019 at 8:40 AM, Chas411 said:

Poor Choi having to lower himself for Bernie and Emily’s drama that April happily enables. His face though when Bernie started talking to him about his erectile dysfunction. 

He was trying so hard not to react with disgust 🤣  Best scene of the episode. 

Edited September 4, 2021 by mrsbagnet