Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (2019)

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Was that Wedge in the final battle? The gunner on the Falcons?

Yep. For all of three seconds. But he should have been in an X-Wing! It's where he belongs!

[Morrigan2575]

9 minutes ago, Anduin said:

Yep. For all of three seconds. But he should have been in an X-Wing! It's where he belongs!

Agreed, it totally threw me that he was in the Gunner seat. Would have prefered he showed up an X-Wing

[Wickedeve]

Well...that happened.

12pm showing. Theater 1/2 full of people wearing Star Wars t-shirts. Utter silence when the movie finished.

As others have said, the first half was a mess. The second half was marginally better. I felt like the Reylo thing at the end would've been far more powerful *without* that WTH kiss. The intense look Ben gave her said everything, and then the weirdness of that kiss came along and diluted the strength of that moment for me.

My favorite parts were when JJ Abrams directly farted on most of the controversial things Rian Johnson did in TLJ. The part where Luke says something like, "You should treat a Jedi's weapon with more respect" had me 🤣🤣

It's really too bad that every episode in this trilogy basically felt like a reboot. Do better with the continuity next time, Disney. (Kevin Feige, my hat is off to you—you are a brave man to tackle this next!)

[Darlin]

I'm almost afraid to ask this, but what is Finn doing in this movie?

[Morrigan2575]

23 minutes ago, Darlin said:

I'm almost afraid to ask this, but what is Finn doing in this movie?

Finn actually got a lot of good stuff in this movie, IMO. 

[ShadowHunter]

1 hour ago, Wickedeve said:

Well...that happened.

12pm showing. Theater 1/2 full of people wearing Star Wars t-shirts. Utter silence when the movie finished.

 

I've seen people say that on Reddit that when the movie ended no one clapped just silence lol.

[calliope1975]

1 minute ago, ShadowHunter said:

I've seen people say that on Reddit that when the movie ended no one clapped just silence lol.

Mine too. My theater was fairly quiet except when Rey's lineage came out and some guy yelled out WHAT!? and we all laughed. Maybe I'm used to first showing Marvel movies with a bunch of nerds, who clap and yell at everything on screen, but when this ended it was very subdued. The girl next to me cried through most of the movie so I'm glad it's connecting with some people even if it didn't quite work for me.  

[TVSpectator]

The leaks were true- all of them. And this was my second most hated Star Wars movie. Second only to the Last Jedo

[TheGourmez]

28 minutes ago, ShadowHunter said:

I've seen people say that on Reddit that when the movie ended no one clapped just silence lol.

And my theater was totally into it - people gasped at all the right moments, etc. I was the only one giggling at believability issues, but I also enjoyed it (not a big FAN, just a little one). Most of my friends who've gone have loved it, though the dissenters are loud.

[Morrigan2575]

34 minutes ago, ShadowHunter said:

I've seen people say that on Reddit that when the movie ended no one clapped just silence lol.

Only a few people clapped in my theater, more people clapped at the beginning when the Lucasfilm logo showed up. Everyone got up to leave immediately after the movie (which could have just been a rush to the bathroom).

There were also no reactions, like when Han showed up or when Ghost Luke appeared or even the end when Ghost Luke and Leia showed.

It definitely was a very subdued crowd. 

Edited December 21, 2019 by Morrigan2575

[Anduin]

My own cinema is dead quiet pretty much the whole time. I let out a loud groan when Rey kissed Ben, but even that was exceptional for the crowd. Sometimes crowds are just quiet.

On another note, I think I gasped when I thought Chewie was dead. Nooo! Don't let Sernpidal win! But I was relieved when he turned up alive. OTOH, I kind of wish JJ had the guts to kill him for real. 3PO got his memory back too. The only notable hero death was Leia. And maybe Ben if you count him. Yes, ROTJ ended that way. But I suppose I was hoping for something else.

[Bill1978]

Is there much interaction between C-3PO and R2-D2? Seeing those two interact are always a highlight for me.

[Anduin]

51 minutes ago, Bill1978 said:

Is there much interaction between C-3PO and R2-D2? Seeing those two interact are always a highlight for me.

There's a bit. More than the previous Disney movies. But nowhere near the OT.

[nilyank]

For the most part Rey, Finn and Poe spent most of their time together onscreen and that is what I wanted as their characters all just magic together. Love the final hug with the three.

I did groan out loud at the kiss with Ben and Rey if only because it was unnecessary. A hug would have been fine.

It is too bad that Keri Russell never took off that helmet off as I had no idea who she was until the credits played.

[katie9918]

 

 

I’ve heard enough to pay to see this movie on the big screen, however angry I am that the legacy of Luke, Leia, and Han has been squandered in such an incoherent, un-explained (does anyone other than Rian Johnson really believe that Luke would have ever even considered murdering his own nephew?) way.

I’m surprised but thankful that Harrison Ford found it in his heart (or wallet) to be involved after the passing of Carrie Fisher prevented her full involvement.

And I’m more excited for the return of Lando and the ultimate fate of Chewie, Threepio, and Artoo than I am to see what happens to Poe, Rey, or Finn. So, in that microcosm the sequel trilogy has failed and it failed from the gate, in destroying Han and Leia’s legacy and turning Luke into a mystical figure who wasn’t around when he was needed.

 

I blame Rian Johnson for his “gritty, realistic” *eyeroll* take on Luke (which was anything BUT realistic when you take more than a minute to think about who Luke really was), but JJ gave him that opening. So fuck both of them and their “realistic” take on a saga that never needed reality.

Edited December 21, 2019 by katie9918

[Anduin]

2 hours ago, katie9918 said:

I’ve heard enough to pay to see this movie on the big screen, however angry I am that the legacy of Luke, Leia, and Han has been squandered in such an incoherent, un-explained (does anyone other than Rian Johnson really believe that Luke would have ever even considered murdering his own nephew?) way.

This again? Luke had one moment of weakness. And after, he hid himself away at the arse-end of the galaxy with no way off to prevent himself from failing a second time. Just one moment. Everyone fails. You don't find that realistic?

[Maximum Taco]

It was just awful. This is probably the worst Star Wars movie, yes worse then the prequels, yes worse then The Last Jedi.

1) This movie makes no sense. 

- How did Palpatine survive? All we get is a stupid quote from Episode III; That's not an explanation. Also how did he make it to Sith Planet and keep his existence a secret? Also how did he mass a freaking ARMADA and keep it a secret? Also why would he wait THIRTY GODDAMN YEARS before springing his final trap? How the hell does that make any sense? He didn't need Rey to trigger the Final Order he seemingly could've done it at any time, and if his real end goal was finding/killing one girl, it would be a lot easier to do that at the head of the Empire. Saying "The Force" is not a catch all explanation in Star Wars, it's lazy and stupid and makes no sense.

- Speaking of that what the hell is the Force even anymore? I understand the need to invent new uses, but it's just too much too quickly at this point. It can teleport people and objects now? Since when is the Force this powerful? Also why is it Rey can seemingly heal anyone from any harm no matter how dire, but when Ben tries to it kills him? Also why does Ben become one with the Force when Rey didn't?

- Why are the Lightsabers buried at Lars Homestead? Luke couldn't wait to leave Tattooine, Leia was there for all of a few days in ROTJ. This place has little significance to Luke, and almost none to Leia. 

- So Lando went with Luke to desert planet 3, and then decided to stay there forever? WHY?! Oh for the love of god why!? Why wouldn't Leia have gone looking for him sooner? He just needed to hear from Rey that he should go back?   

- Why is Palpatine still making more Snokes? What purpose does this serve?

2) This movie is perhaps the best example I've ever seen of a lack of gravity. There are absolutely 0 consequences. The whole movie is just one large fake out. 

- Rey is supposed to 'earn' Luke's lightsaber, but she never really does, Leia just gives it to her cause she needs it and it's stupid to not give it to her, and then she gets Leia's lightsaber too. And then she gets a third lightsaber, without even showing how. How did she earn any of this?

- Chewie's dead! Oh wait no he's not. 

- 3P0's gone! Oh wait he's exactly the same but with amnesia. Oh wait now he's exactly the same as he always was. 

- Rey's dea-- Oh goddamn it.

Why should I feel anything when it's just going to be undone seconds later? All these emotional moments are just stolen when they are reversed, or revealed to be fake outs. 

3) This movie makes no sense and has no gravity on it's own, but even worse it just invalidates all of the movies that came before it and steals their gravity. 

- If Palpatine survived, what is the point of the story of Anakin Skywalker? He's supposed to bring balance to the Force but he never actually did, unless we're supposed to believe he did because Luke is his son who trained Rey who starred in the movie that insanity built. 

- If the Emperor could use the Force to seemingly single handedly build an Armada of ships with Death Star tech why would he bother with extreme subterfuge in the Senate and a secret manufactured war to seize power in the PT and why would he painstakingly use man power to build not one but TWO Death Stars during the OT? 

- Poe's backstory had established his parents as being Rebels, and him as following in their example. It's a great backstory, why did we change that to making him a drug smuggler? The only reason I can see to do this is to make him more like Han Solo. Han Solo is Han Solo, let Poe Dameron be Poe Dameron. 

- Wasn't it supposed to be an important story how Maz got Luke's lightsaber?

- TLJ's big point was that greatness can come from anywhere, but really that's not the case, either you're Force Royalty or you're garbage in this universe according to ROS. 

I knew this movie was going to be terrible as soon as the opening scrawl began with 'THE DEAD SPEAK!" but nothing could've prepared me for how truly wretched it was. 

Edited December 21, 2019 by Maximum Taco

[MrsR]

30 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

- How did Palpatine survive? All we get is a stupid quote from Episode III; That's not an explanation. Also how did he make it to Sith Planet and keep his existence a secret? Also how did he mass a freaking ARMADA and keep it a secret? Also why would he wait THIRTY GODDAMN YEARS before springing his final trap? How the hell does that make any sense? He didn't need Rey to trigger the Final Order he seemingly could've done it at any time, and if his real end goal was finding/killing one girl, it would be a lot easier to do that at the head of the Empire. Saying "The Force" is not a catch all explanation in Star Wars, it's lazy and stupid and makes no sense.

And so starts the nitpicking. 

I'm not going to answer everyone of your questions, I'll just tackle this one. He survived the same way Anakin and Luke survived Mustafa and Bespin. Someone cared enough to scoop them up and whisk them away. Then a life support system and/or bionic help was applied. If you can accept Darth Vader, there's zero reason why you can't accept Palpatine.

Now go back and apply that concept to the whole movie. It's called Science Fiction Fantasy. 

Edited December 21, 2019 by MrsR

[revbfc]

One huge thing that I had a problem with: Maz never got around to letting us know how she got Luke’s (or rather Anakin’s) lightsaber.  I’m no film expert, but the final film in the trilogy would have been the perfect time to unwind that yarn.

Edited December 21, 2019 by revbfc

[Maximum Taco]

6 minutes ago, MrsR said:

And so starts the nitpicking. 

I'm not going to answer everyone of your questions, I'll just tackle this one. He survived the same way Anakin and Luke survived Mustafa and Bespin. Someone cared enough to scoop them up and whisk them away. Then a life support system and/or bionic help was applied. If you can accept Darth Vader, there's zero reason why you can't accept Palpatine.

Now go back and apply that concept to the whole movie. It's called Science Fiction fantasy. 

Anakin survived Mustafar with the help of Darth Sidious and extensive surgery from the finest doctors of the Republic. 

Luke survived Bespin because HE contacted Leia and she came back for him. 

Both of these survivals were explained IN MOVIE, and not only that they were explained in the SAME MOVIE that the trauma happened in.  

Also neither of these people survived and then decided to lay low for 30 years biding their time on a plan that made no sense.

Asking me to fill in the plotholes is lazy storytelling. Sci-Fi and Fantasy isn't an explanation or an excuse for lazy storytelling.

 

Edited December 21, 2019 by Maximum Taco

[MrsR]

3 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

9 minutes ago, MrsR said:

And so starts the nitpicking. 

I'm not going to answer everyone of your questions, I'll just tackle this one. He survived the same way Anakin and Luke survived Mustafa and Bespin. Someone cared enough to scoop them up and whisk them away. Then a life support system and/or bionic help was applied. If you can accept Darth Vader, there's zero reason why you can't accept Palpatine.

Now go back and apply that concept to the whole movie. It's called Science Fiction fantasy. 

Read more  

Anakin survived Mustafar with the help of Darth Sidious and extensive surgery from the finest doctors of the Republic. 

Luke survived Bespin because HE contacted Leia and she came back for him. 

Both of these survivals were explained IN MOVIE, and not only that they were explained in the SAME MOVIE that the trauma happened in.  

Also neither of these people survived and then decided to lay low for 30 years biding their time on a plan that made no sense.

Sci-Fi and Fantasy isn't an explanation or an excuse for lazy storytelling. 

Nope. Not needed. Don't need to be spoon fed. I can extrapolate. I've seen it before.
 

If you can't extrapolate you are seeking the wrong form of entertainment.

[Maximum Taco]

4 minutes ago, MrsR said:

Nope. Not needed. Don't need to be spoon fed. I can extrapolate. I've seen it before.
 

If you can't extrapolate you are seeking the wrong form of entertainment.

I can extrapolate, if that extrapolation is a logical leap. 

In my opinion this isn't. There's too many steps. 

You say someone picked him up and got him the medical care he needed. Ok who? And how did they get him this medical care? And why did they keep it a secret? The Empire collapsed largely because there was no leadership. Wouldn't it have made more sense to say the Emperor is alive and well, as he recovered? 

He created a fleet of Star Destroyers. Ok how? He used the Force. Ok, if he could use the Force to create a fleet of Star Destroyers all with the power of a Death Star, why didn't he do that before?

At a certain point I'm not watching a movie anymore, I'm making up my own movie in my head. I can do that, but that's not why I go to the movies, that's why I run a pen and paper RPG game. 

[VCRTracking]

The big criticism is JJ tried too hard to please everyone. Fair point, but considering the way the fan base acted these past couple of years can you really blame him?

[MrsR]

11 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

At a certain point I'm not watching a movie anymore, I'm making up my own movie in my head.

yeah, well, there's the whole problem in a nutshell. You're not properly engaged.

Go write your own story. You're not in charge of this one. Yoda would give you the same advice.

[Maximum Taco]

20 minutes ago, MrsR said:

yeah, well, there's the whole problem in a nutshell. You're not properly engaged.

Go write your own story. You're not in charge of this one. Yoda would give you the same advice.

I'm not properly engaged because the story lacks logical consistency and gravity. 

If you invalidate every criticism with "Go write your own story then!" then every movie, book and tv show is the same amount of good and bad.

I guess if we're exchanging Jedi wisdom Obi-Wan would tell you to not let my disappointment factor into your enjoyment. After all many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. Personally I'm glad you (and anyone else) enjoyed the movie, I don't wish disappointment on anyone, but I didn't enjoy it for the reasons stated. 

Edited December 21, 2019 by Maximum Taco

[Browncoat]

Discussions like this one make me glad I was never invested in the extended universe.  Movies only, thanks, with the real original (pre-"A New Hope" tag, and pre George Lucas' tinkering) Star Wars probably as my fave.  It was so revolutionary, and so different from anything we'd seen before, despite being a basic good vs. evil type story.  And the opening fanfare of the score never fails to give me chills, regardless of the episode.  

Sometimes you just have to let art flow over you.

[Maximum Taco]

11 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

Discussions like this one make me glad I was never invested in the extended universe.  Movies only, thanks, with the real original (pre-"A New Hope" tag, and pre George Lucas' tinkering) Star Wars probably as my fave.  It was so revolutionary, and so different from anything we'd seen before, despite being a basic good vs. evil type story.  And the opening fanfare of the score never fails to give me chills, regardless of the episode.  

Sometimes you just have to let art flow over you.

I don't really see what the EU has to do with it. 

I didn't really bring up any EU examples, and I'm personally not really invested in the EU at all. I've watched the Mandalorian if that counts I guess. 

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, Maximum Taco said:

So Lando went with Luke to desert planet 3, and then decided to stay there forever? WHY?! Oh for the love of god why!? Why wouldn't Leia have gone looking for him sooner? He just needed to hear from Rey that he should go back?   

Rian Johnson fucked the story up?

 

2 hours ago, Maximum Taco said:

If the Emperor could use the Force to seemingly single handedly build an Armada of ships with Death Star tech why would he bother with extreme

2 hours ago, Maximum Taco said:

How did Palpatine survive? All we get is a stupid quote from Episode III; 

Rian Johnson said FU JJ and killed Snoke so JJ had to come up with the finale baddie to complete the trilogy as planned.

I don't believe her used the Force. This was supposed to be another one of Palpatine's secret orders (The Final Order). In the Timothy Zahn Trilogy Palpatine was experimenting with Clones and had a bunch of secret plots lined up to counter his eventual death. Timothy Zahn, Force Unleashed and, even Marvel Comics have also given us a Darth Vadar that was plotting against the Emperor and had secret bases. 

While my short answer is Rian Johnson fucked the whole thing up, I can easily accept that Palpatine had plans within plans and With Cult (which features in a few Star Wars Games) was supporting him with mysterious Sith Tech (Hi KotOR!)

2 hours ago, Maximum Taco said:

Speaking of that what the hell is the Force even anymore? I understand the need to invent new uses, but it's just too much too quickly at this point. It can teleport people and objects now?

Yeah, that bugged me too. Force has never been shown to teleport.

2 hours ago, Maximum Taco said:

Why are the Lightsabers buried at Lars Homestead? Luke couldn't wait to leave Tattooine, Leia was there for all of a few days in ROTJ. This place has little significance to Luke, and almost none to Leia. 

That's just symbolic, the story ends where it began, I can live with that from a thematic POV

2 hours ago, Maximum Taco said:

Poe's backstory had established his parents as being Rebels, and him as following in their example

I actually forgot about this (or didn't know). I don't think it matters one way or the other but, yeah hints of Han Solo for Fan Service?

 

2 hours ago, Maximum Taco said:

And then she gets a third lightsaber, without even showing how. How did she earn any of this?

That's easy, she built her own, it's the final test of any Jedi Student. She has the books and the knowledge (Leia built her own and most likely included it in Ref's training).  Luke built his own between Empire and RotJ. I don't need an explanation for that.

2 hours ago, Maximum Taco said:

Chewie's dead! Oh wait no he's not. 

- 3P0's gone! Oh wait he's exactly the same but with amnesia. Oh wait now he's exactly the same as he always was. 

- Rey's dea-- Oh goddamn it.

The Chewie one ia just a bit nitpicky they revealed that immediately.

The 3PO and Rey were a bit disappointing because he went for the symbolic happy ending. I'm guessing he assumed no one would accept Ben as being the Rise of Skywalker but, I personally think it should have ended with Force Ghost (Rey, Lule and Leia, hell even toss in Anakin) telling Ben he has to make their sacrifices right/worth it and continue doing good (or something like that).

 

[Maximum Taco]

5 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

The Chewie one ia just a bit nitpicky they revealed that immediately.

The 3PO and Rey were a bit disappointing because he went for the symbolic happy ending. I'm guessing he assumed no one would accept Ben as being the Rise of Skywalker but, I personally think it should have ended with Force Ghost (Rey, Lule and Leia, hell even toss in Anakin) telling Ben he has to make their sacrifices right/worth it and continue doing good (or something like that).

 

My problem with all of them isn't really the time it took, it's that they were undone at all. 

When Rey destroyed the transport that was (supposedly) carrying Chewie, it meant something. I felt something, and then it was taken away, it was like the movie saying "No you were wrong for feeling that."

Then they try and have a false moment of sacrifice for C-3P0, he's supposed to be making this huge sacrifice. "I'm taking one last look at my friends." That was one of the few moments of poignancy in this movie, and then it turns out the sacrifice he made was really just losing a few days. It was the droid equivalent of "R2! I had the most peculiar dream!"

These fake outs are sometimes well done. They make you feel scared for the character and then relieved that they are ok. But doing it over and over cheapens each one. When Rey died I had no illusions she would stay dead. Because the story up to that point had no consequences. The same with when Finn stayed behind on the Star Detroyer to finish destroying it. 

[bluvelvet]

Just saw this movie today, I really really enjoyed it. I have no issues believing that Rey was Palpatine's grandchild,  I am probably one of the few people who really liked that particular twist. Emperor Palpatine was also human at some point in time so it's believable that he may have been married with children.  I didn't find any difficulty believing how he still lived, artificial means and the dark side of the force.  Loved all the fight scenes, loved when regular people showed up. Loved the interactions between the main trio and yes I liked the kiss. Ben had to die so this was a fitting arc and end to him.  Wish they had explained the dyad a bit more, Palpatine made a comment that this type of connection hadn't been seen in a very long time, so I assume it was rare.

ETA: Chewie’s grief over Leía was heartbreaking 

Edited December 23, 2019 by bluvelvet

[Spartan Girl]

Well, it was better than GOT. That's all I asked and I received that much, so I'm good.

I agree that it crammed too much into one movie. Just BAM BAM BAM BAM every second. And most of it was hamfisted fan service to please the fanboys. Not even TFA pandered that much, and I loved TFA and TLJ I mean, did they really have to have Rey be a Palpatine?! Not that the part of her fighting her Empress side wasn't cool....

But I can't help thinking this movie could have been so much better if 1) they had a plan, 2) they hadn't tried so hard to please the fanboys, and 3) if Carrie had lived. 

The one thing I dreaded with Bitch Boy's redemptive storyline. But even though it felt lazy, it could have been worse. At least he expressed actual remorse even though they tried to shoehorn Kylo being different from Ben. And the Reylo fans got their stupid kiss, but their pitching a fit because Ben died. Well what did they expect? For him to go on living happily ever with Rey after all the people he murdered including his own father?! Gross. Taking more thoughts to the villains thread...

There was a lot to love though. Rey, Poe, Finn, C3PO and BB8 all together was everything I ever hoped for. But dammit, let Finn tell his feelings!

Leia training Rey and the flashback of Luke and Leia training together?! LOVED IT. Rey hearing all the dead Jedi and RISING to confront Palpatine? Spectacular. 

Leia's death was very well done. Poor Chewie wailing stuck with me.

It was good to see Lando and Ghost Han again. And Chewie finally got a medal! Yay!

All in all not bad, but could've been better. 

[TVSpectator]

30 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Well, it was better than GOT. That's all I asked and I received that much, so I'm good.

I agree that it crammed too much into one movie. Just BAM BAM BAM BAM every second. And most of it was hamfisted fan service to please the fanboys. Not even TFA pandered that much, and I loved TFA and TLJ I mean, did they really have to have Rey be a Palpatine?! Not that the part of her fighting her Empress side wasn't cool....

Eh, I would say that it's a bit better than the TLJ but not by much. Also, it was probably as bad as GoT but it just didn't last 8 hours compared to 2 1/2 hours. Also making Rey into a Palpatine was WTF on JJ's part and also bring back old Palpatine was a dumb movie. It probably would've been better to make Rey Leia and Han's long lost child and have Kylo be the only big bad to worry about in this film. Maybe throw in a couple of flashback scenes to where we saw how Ben fell to the darkside and also a flashback of what happened between Luke, Han, Leia, and Rey. Say that they gave Rey to Luke to be trained in the force and that Ben eventually fell to the darkside, not because of Snoke but because that was all on Ben. Then Luke gave Rey to two guardians to hid and then they hide her on Jakku. Then they died trying to protect her (from Kylo's and Snoke's hired bounty hunter- and it can be the same bounty hunter from the movie as well) but by then Luke mide wipes Rey, Leia, and Han trying to save Rey's life. If JJ really wanted to make a Palpatine connection my only bet would've just make old Sheev Anakin's father. Thus, the reason why the darkside is so strong in them is because they are all descended from a Sith Lord. But whatever, the film just threw a bunch of random crap in trying to come up with a dumb connection to Rey's parentage. It should've been Han and Leia. The foundation was laid out from TFA and not her being a Palpatine as well. 

 

Not only that but they should've just had Leia die in the first 5- 10 minutes of the film because her scenes were so weird watching. Like I know what happened to Carrie Fisher but what JJ did was stupid, in my opinion. Leia came off like she was high or something and you could tell they were acting/walking around her, etc...

Edit:

 

I guess they can still have the Wayfinder plot point but instead make it about Kylo wanting to resurrect Palpatine instead. Kylo finds out that Palpatine was his great-grandfather and now he wants his powers but in order to do it he must gather the two Wayfinders and do a Sith Ritual involving killing Rey or Rey killing Kylo- in cold blood of course. Then by completing the ritual Kylo gets old Palpatine's powers and also his spirit goes into Kylo. Palpatine resurrected only for him to turn on Kylo and both he and Rey have to fight him. They defeat him and Kylo eventual turns to the Light Side and becomes, "Ben" again and then he asks forgiveness. Rey says that he is forgiven (along with Force Ghost Luke, Han, Leia, etc...) and dies. Once that is done the First Order fleet is finally destroyed  and then we can have Rey go to Tatooine and buries everyone lightsaber in the sand while Han, Leia, Luke, and Ben (as Force Ghosts of course) all watch from afar. 

Edited December 21, 2019 by TVSpectator

[starri]

Perhaps it was just lowered expectations, but I enjoyed it a lot.  I actually wasn't that enthused walking in, and I realized as I was sitting through about twenty minutes of trailers that I'm burned out by all of the toxicity of the last two years.  And no, I'm not specifically referring to the people bullying Kelly Marie Tran off of Twitter (although fuck them), but just all of the back and forth.

But in the end, I had a good time.

[Morrigan2575]

3 hours ago, Maximum Taco said:

My problem with all of them isn't really the time it took, it's that they were undone at all. 

After thinking about it, I have to give this one to you 🤣😃.  After the Jeremy Jahns review I was certain I'd hate the movie so I went and spoiled myself to see what happened. I knew about Chewie and Rey in advance so i had no reaction to their death or fakeout. The 3PO one bothered me because the spoilers said he died/was erased but never mentioned he got most of his memory back. So I did get emotional over his "death" and then was pissed they cheapened it.

Speaking of 3PO I get it's a joke that he's annoying and, not as cool as R2 and BB8 but, they were so mean to him, plotting to kill him without a second thought. Then Rey was all poor cone-face droid someone abused you. Hypocrites! 😠

Edited December 21, 2019 by Morrigan2575

[Anduin]

Another and possibly safer question. Why was the Lars homestead in one piece? We saw Jawas right there. Why didn't they strip it to the bone? Compare the Razor Crest. Yes, a few years earlier on another planet. But those Jawas started the moment the Mando left it alone. Why did the Tatooine Jawas leave the Lars homestead to be reclaimed by nature?

[starri]

They seem to have looted Beru's blue milk dispenser, at least.

One moment of fanservice that I REALLY dug was the Jedi calling out to Rey.  I mean, one would expect Luke, Leia, Obi-Wan, etc, but I really loved that they included so many of the voice actors from Clone Wars and Rebels.

[Jillibean]

Like others, I’ll start by saying that I enjoyed it and move on to my head-scratchers.

I fully agree that the main problem was how overcrowded this movie was, but I’m also not sure how it could have been avoided. It basically had to do the work of two movies, because in retrospect the only part of TLJ that was relevant to this one was the relationship between Kylo and Rey. A lot of us were confused and concerned by the whole director switch-off/everyone gets to write their own movie deal, and clearly that concern was totally justified. Rian should have touched base about what his bridge movie actually needed to do to move plot forward, and J.J. should have done more with the actual movie that exists in this universe rather than just getting back in the director’s chair and saying, “Okay, that was fun, now back to the real movies.” I feel awful for Kelly Marie Tran. Just because J.J. didn’t create the character doesn’t mean Rose wasn’t meaningful to people. She practically had a sign in this movie that said, “sidelined.”

I’m torn about the Palpatine granddaughter reveal. I don’t really see it as a retcon because I have a feeling this is what J.J. always intended. On one hand, I like the poetic symmetry of Kylo Ren being the child of heroes and Rey being related to the villain. It also gives Rey a built in conflict. OTOH, I loved the idea that Rey was related to no one and had to make her own place in the story. Rey could have had natural conflict about being attracted to the dark side the same way all normal people battle their anger and rage and hate. Isn’t that, on the most basic level, what these movies are about? Rian even set that up last movie, though heaven forbid we use anything from him. (Granted, a lot of it was unusable.)

I’ve been predicting Bendemption for a long time, so I wasn’t surprised by that. And I loved the very small bit of Ben Solo in action that we got. I personally thought the kiss was cute, but I’ve always thought the characters had major chemistry, and I felt both were hard-playing romantic vibes in the last movie. As soon as Palps told Kylo he’d need to kill Rey to get the army, I thought, “Were you not listening in on Forcetime? You’ve misread the situation.” I think there were a lot of reasons the character couldn’t be left alive, but I also thought there was some wiggle room there in his death, with Palpatine talking about their shared life force and how they would live or die together. If you’re really invested in the character and squint hard I think you could fanwank him back.

I’m not sure why we had the almost sexual tension between Rey and Poe to begin the movie. It never was paid off. Similarly, what WAS Finn going to tell Rey? I feel like they made it so clear the two are just friends and then hit the backspace button, at least on his end (as it seems clear her attention was elsewhere). Finn and Poe and Rey and Finn have amazing, earned bonds. Poe and Rey spent literally ten seconds of screen time together prior to this movie, and I think that was another miscalculation. They seem like people who tolerate each other rather than friends. I liked Zorii but we got so little of her. 

I think it’s a shame that after Rian cued it up, we got no acknowledgement of any of the issues with the Jedi order or how they could be resolved in a new generation. That part felt authentic to the prequel trilogy and like something worth exploring, maybe even a reason to DO a sequel trilogy. Instead, we reverted right back to “Jedi good, Sith bad, fight!” Making a great action movie doesn’t mean you have to cut out layers of meaning. For all the problems with TLJ, the corruption of the Jedi order was a huge theme of the prequels that has still not been resolved. So close and yet so far. 

[starri]

10 minutes ago, Jillibean said:

I’ve been predicting Bendemption for a long time, so I wasn’t surprised by that. And I loved the very small bit of Ben Solo in action that we got.

I actually really liked it, and I wasn't expecting to.  I would have preferred it without the kiss.  I just would have liked it better if Ben was allowed by be saved because of the love between himself and his parents, instead of throwing romantic love on the pile as well.

I should probably be embarrassed by this, but I'm not:  I actually got a little verklempt at "They're not a navy.  They're just...people."

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, Jillibean said:

Like others, I’ll start by saying that I enjoyed it and move on to my head-scratchers.

I fully agree that the main problem was how overcrowded this movie was, but I’m also not sure how it could have been avoided. It basically had to do the work of two movies, because in retrospect the only part of TLJ that was relevant to this one was the relationship between Kylo and Rey. A lot of us were confused and concerned by the whole director switch-off/everyone gets to write their own movie deal, and clearly that concern was totally justified. Rian should have touched base about what his bridge movie actually needed to do to move plot forward, and J.J. should have done more with the actual movie that exists in this universe rather than just getting back in the director’s chair and saying, “Okay, that was fun, now back to the real movies.” I feel awful for Kelly Marie Tran. Just because J.J. didn’t create the character doesn’t mean Rose wasn’t meaningful to people. She practically had a sign in this movie that said, “sidelined.”

When Rian Johnson made TLJ, JJ wasn't coming back for ep IX. It was going to be Colin Trevorrow. That changed after release. For that matter, JJ apparently didn't leave any notes about where he saw it all heading.

[Sakura12]

I liked it. Granted I'm one of the few that has enjoyed this new trilogy. Even the flawed Last Jedi.

I will agree with everyone saying it was overcrowded with so much going on. But that didn't stop me from enjoying the movie. With Palpatine stuff I'm going with all those people that were complaining about Rey being so special made them make Rey special. So now they have an explanation of why she's so good with her force powers. I'd rather they kept her a nobody. Although could she really be a nobody with Villanelle as a mother. Lol

I thought this one had some of the best lightsabers fighting and the use of the force while fighting. I also liked that they added that Leia did receive Jedi training. I liked the scenes we did get with her. I can't imagine how hard it must've been to film her death scene especially for her daughter.  What really got me was when Chewie fell to his knees. I also was surprised by the Han appearance, I guess he came back because Carrie died since I assume that was supposed to be her talking to Ben.

I don't think they needed the Rey/Kylo kiss but I didn't hate it as much as I thought I would. Probably because it was Ben not Kylo. I'm okay with Rey choosing to be a Skywalker as well. 

[absnow54]

8 hours ago, MrsR said:

Nope. Not needed. Don't need to be spoon fed. I can extrapolate. I've seen it before.
 

If you can't extrapolate you are seeking the wrong form of entertainment.

I could not disagree more with this statement. There are plenty of details that don’t need to be filled in. Palpetine having a child, for example. It’s been alluded that he created Anakin (and possibly confirmed in other media that I didn’t read.) Him having unnamed illegitimate children over the years I’m fine with. But the guy died on screen and then blew up, and there has been no indication nor whisper that he was still around. And suddenly he has the firepower on par with the First Order who also has inexplicable resources. They had 2 movies to set up his return and they didn’t. That’s bad writing plain and simple. 

The OT had plot twists that Lucas kept pulling out of his ass too, but at least they took 30 seconds to have Obi Wan exposit them, so we could all be on the same page and move on with things. 

[jcin617]

As others have said: what was Finn going to tell Rey?  And it seems like they were implying Finn is a bit Force-sensitive?   

[Morrigan2575]

33 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

They had 2 movies to set up his return and they didn’t. That’s bad writing plain and simple. 

If you believe that was always the plan then yes it is massively bad writing. If you believe (like I do) that Johnson fucked this trilogy up then bringing back the Emperor is more of a Hail Mary (that either works or fails - it worked for me).

 

[starri]

Was anyone else surprised that Ben wasn't with Luke and Leia when they appeared to encourage Rey to take the Skywalker name?

[Sakura12]

26 minutes ago, jcin617 said:

As others have said: what was Finn going to tell Rey?  And it seems like they were implying Finn is a bit Force-sensitive?   

Yea, I think that Finn was going to tell Rey he's force-sensitive. 

I didn't want to watch any reviews of this movie until I could make a decision for myself. I also feel that a lot of them hate it just because everyone does.  I'm not saying it doesn't have flaws, it does. But what movie has 0 flaws. A movie's purpose is to entertain me for 2ish hours and this movie did. I'll admit I'm not a huge fan. I liked the originals and this trilogy. The prequels not so much. But I am loving the Mandalorian.  

[MrsR]

46 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

But the guy died on screen and then blew up, and there has been no indication nor whisper that he was still around.

No, he got thrown down a shaft and there was vapor and light. dispersed. Darth Maul survived. Getting cut in half. Luke went down a shaft (possible suicide attempt) but still survived. Anakin got his limbs cut off and third degree burns and still survived with the help of Palpatine and his minions and fabulous bionic technology. Why is it so unbelievable that Sidious with his Sith cult wouldn't be able to survive. He survived Mace trying to kill him.  The dude has resources for goodness sake, and he has paramount powers.

After all the crazy shit this series has thrown at us in 42 years it's just way too late in the game to be calling for "things that make sense."

And as for undoing things like Chewbacca (which was straight out of Raiders) they didn't undo Leia, Ben, and at last, Palpatine. At least not yet. I wouldn't bet against him. How much of a body count do you want? It's not Vikings or GOT. It's a film series inspired by afternoon serials. 

If they had killed Chewie I would have rioted!

[jcin617]

1 hour ago, starri said:

Was anyone else surprised that Ben wasn't with Luke and Leia when they appeared to encourage Rey to take the Skywalker name?

I thought for sure it would be the whole Skywalker family: Anakin, Luke, Leia and Ben.

Of course, along those lines - why didn’t Anakin’s ghost ever appear to Ben and tell him not to idolize Vader.

It would have been kind of cool to have the Sith planet be Korriban or Dromund Kaas to tie it into KOTOR.   They both would have been long forgotten by this time.

Edited December 22, 2019 by jcin617

[katie9918]

Now I’m glad I haven’t seen it yet and saw some reviews, both good and bad.

So the actual Skywalker line is extinguished in this movie, after the last two movies told us that nothing the Skywalkers (and Han, I’m counting him in there because he married Leia) did in the original trilogy actually mattered in the end because Palpatine survived our original heroes and actually defeated them when you really think about it - he created Kylo Ren and used Ben to destroy the Jedi Order a second time, which destroyed Luke and damaged Leia and Han beyond repair.

I realize I’m not being particularly fair to Rey, Finn, and Poe, and the other characters in this trilogy, but the sequel trilogy is officially garbage to me now. 

What the hell are they going to do to Obi-Wan? *frightened*

[TVSpectator]

2 hours ago, jcin617 said:

As others have said: what was Finn going to tell Rey?  And it seems like they were implying Finn is a bit Force-sensitive?   

I thought he was supposed to say  something like, "I love you"? Or maybe that is me being the most cringiest because I went to see this movie. But if Finn was Forced sensitive then why was he stuck doing janitor duty wearing a stormtrooper uniform and not Kylo/Snoke taking him and training him in the dark side?

[AimingforYoko]

28 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

As others have said: what was Finn going to tell Rey?  And it seems like they were implying Finn is a bit Force-sensitive?

I think you answered your own question there.

The movie looks to make about $195m to open, but how will it hold? A series-worst B+ CinemaScore doesn't bode well. Rumors are already swirling about Kathleen Kennedy's future.