S08.E13: Doomed or Devoted

[STRIDER1]

8 hours ago, Marsh said:

I'm convinced that Puke is either an alien or A.I. bcause he doesn't know how to converse with humans during dinner.

Cant be AI because that will mean that puke will actually possess some sort of intelligence at all lol

Im going with the alien theory as he seems to not know what a complete and utter douchebag and !@#$% dumb ass he is

[STRIDER1]

1 hour ago, Mazzy said:

 She desperately wants a kiss at the end, he so very obviously has zero interest.

 

I noticed that too.  They said good bye twice when she was about to leave for the night to spend away from puke on the final night before D-Day.

1st time was in the bedroom when kate looked longingly into pukes eyes hoping for a loving reaction or a good bye kiss. they just hugged and thats it.

2nd time was outside the house and once again kate stared longingly into pukes eyes hoping for some sort of reaction indicating that he will miss her or something like that. as well as a 2nd opportunity for a tender moment good bye kiss. but nope, this time they just hugged again but kate did sneak in a last second kiss on the cheek on puke.

He seemed to have turned his face away so that it would be a quick peck on the cheek rather than on the lips. at least thats what it appeared to me. either way, he seemed very disinterested to me as well.

Then proceeds to throw out a " im just gonna watch you for awhile " fake comment to appear to be a nice guy while the cameras were still rolling

What a sloth loving freak douchebag POS !@#$% !@#$% [fill in the blanks] lol

[kanona29]

13 hours ago, Drogo said:

Because he won't be able to steal his wife's fish when she's not done with it. 

LOL This made me laugh so much!!! This is AJ to a tee.

And Kate looked so miserable watching that wedding video while Luke was over there grinning with that sinister smile of his...

I hope Kate is waiting until D-Day so that when they ask Kate & Luke if they want to stay together, she can jump up and start singing some Bishop Bullwinkle's "Hell to da Naw, to da Naw, Naw, Naw!!!" and walk out like a BOSS.

Kate, I need you to make that happen.

Thanks.

[Kiss my mutt]

Luke is like the cobra that hypnotizes his prey to get them where he wants him. 

[LuvMyShows]

On 3/26/2019 at 10:35 PM, Adeejay said:

What love story is Kate talking about?

It seems like more and more, I hear millenials talking about how such-and-such event will make a great story in the future, as though the recounting/retelling is more important than the actual experiencing of it.  Kate sounds like she's getting sucked into that mindset.

On 3/26/2019 at 11:18 PM, Yeah No said:

I can't believe she would still be entertaining actually staying with him after what he's done to her.  

...and what he's still continuing to do to her, apparently.  They were having a conversation where Kate said something about "You say that you don't like me," and Puke corrected her with something like, "It's that I don't like what you do," and one of them mentioned that this had occurred yesterday!

13 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I was actually pretty happy to hear Keith say that he couldn't quite yet say that he loves Kristine. They have only known each other for seven weeks.

Me too!

On 3/26/2019 at 11:26 PM, Yeah No said:

Keith telling his uncle that he hasn't told her he loves her yet and that he's about 3/4 of the way there told me why Kristine has that concern.  Keith says he is aware that he has to change that - Hopefully he will before decision day to put an end to any of her reservations about his feelings for her.  I think that's why she seemed so on the fence about him in this episode.  Despite Keith's drawbacks, his heart does seem to be in the right place.

I just don't see why he has to be in love with her before D-Day.  Unless I've missed something, I didn't catch that she had reservations about the strength of his feeling for her in that regard...I get the sense that she's on the fence because of all those areas where he falls short of what she's looking for.

[bichonblitz]

20 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Luke's good in bed and Kate wants to be married.

Not sure sad sack Kate knows what "good in bed" is. My version of Luke is he probably climbs on top, making sure to touch her as little as possible and 1,2,3 done. Any crumb of affection is good enough for poor Kate. 

[Dittohead]

On 3/26/2019 at 9:54 PM, EctoGammat said:

Will’s not really into Jasmine but he still was nice and carried her bag for her as she was leaving. It’s called being a decent human being, Luke. 

I think it was more like he was just helping her exit a little faster.

[aphroditewitch]

1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

Not sure sad sack Kate knows what "good in bed" is. My version of Luke is he probably climbs on top, making sure to touch her as little as possible and 1,2,3 done. Any crumb of affection is good enough for poor Kate. 

Somehow I doubt that someone so unwilling to observe how other people are feeling is good in bed.

[Jeanne222]

Kate is such a whiny butt!  Her scenes depress me!  I guess she's a real good little actress!  No wonder she doesn't have a fellow!  Talk about Debbie downer!  That's kate!  

I don't think it's Luke making her that way.  I think Kate loves and embraces the poor Kate role!

[Empress1]

On 3/27/2019 at 9:02 AM, Drogo said:

The way Kate's friends speak to her, it seems clear they have been watching out for her for a long time.  That's probably why Friend2 holds her fork at the ready, like she's on Cell Block A.  Kate is the Baby Spice. 

Similarly, the surprise Jasmine's friends had over their lack of intimacy tells me she is likely the Superfreak in her particular circle of friends. 

Kristine seems a little wishy-washy these days.  You couldn't wake stand up to say your final pre-DDay goodbye to him? Keith is going to be destroyed if his Queen breaks up with him; that boy's strung out on lov. 

I wondered if Kate's friends had had the "he doesn't treat you right" conversation with her about previous dudes, perhaps over extended periods of time. I've been on both sides of the "I don't know what else to tell you; we've had this conversation many times. You know I think you should break up with him, so ..." talk and I wondered if Kate has a history of dealing with men who aren't treating her well, or who she's determined to stick it out with even though there's a Big Incompatibility Issue that can't be resolved.

I have also told a friend "Real talk: you look MISERABLE" when she was trying to convince me and herself that a terrible relationship was actually good, and I kept thinking that looking at Kate. She looks completely miserable. I don't know what she's like when she's not on this show - she had a pretty flat affect even before all Luke's fuckery - but she looks totally miserable all the time on it.

[Ilovepie]

14 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Talk about Debbie downer!  That's kate!  

Yeah it’s getting ridiculous. The sad or ominous music is really laying it on thick. She showed 30 seconds of gumption in that dinner scene where she almost looked angry but then nothing! 

It’s so frustrating because I need the satisfaction of seeing someone really lay into him and then not letting him get away with it. Sadly, I don’t think it’s going to happen....

[Crazy Bird Lady]

I can only hope that Luke says "yes," on D-Day, and Kate says "no".

I don't expect this to happen:  

9 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

It’s so frustrating because I need the satisfaction of seeing someone really lay into him and then not letting him get away with it. Sadly, I don’t think it’s going to happen....

Edited March 28, 2019 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Crazy Bird Lady]

12 hours ago, kanona29 said:

I hope Kate is waiting until D-Day so that when they ask Kate & Luke if they want to stay together, she can jump up and start singing some Bishop Bullwinkle's "Hell to da Naw, to da Naw, Naw, Naw!!!" and walk out like a BOSS.

Kate, I need you to make that happen.

We all do!! 

Unfortunately, ILOVEPIE Jeanne222 wasn't wrong about Kate being "a Debbie Downer". And Debbie Downers are almost always depressed, usually suicidal.  

(So there's that.)  

Edited March 28, 2019 by Crazy Bird Lady

[aphroditewitch]

12 hours ago, kanona29 said:

And Kate looked so miserable watching that wedding video while Luke was over there grinning with that sinister smile of his...

I hope Kate is waiting until D-Day so that when they ask Kate & Luke if they want to stay together, she can jump up and start singing some Bishop Bullwinkle's "Hell to da Naw, to da Naw, Naw, Naw!!!" and walk out like a BOSS.

Kate, I need you to make that happen.

Thanks.

It would be nice to see Kate say she wants a divorce and list out why like Luke repeatedly saying he doesn't like her,  they way he stocks the fridge with wine but accusing her of being an alcoholic if she drinks it, and just his general cruel behavior. And the experts should back her up on this. 

But this is MAFS so I'm expecting decision day to be a disappointment.

[Retired at last]

Especially KATE!!!

As far as the comment above about Luke being good in bed (eeeeewwwww), does that include jumping out and running away to hide right afterwards? If so, I am sorry that you consider that being good in bed.

[Empress1]

43 minutes ago, Retired at last said:

Especially KATE!!!

As far as the comment above about Luke being good in bed (eeeeewwwww), does that include jumping out and running away to hide right afterwards? If so, I am sorry that you consider that being good in bed.

Yeah, whatever pleasure I might have experienced would be negated by the active revulsion he displayed afterward. "He checks all my boxes except he's repulsed by me and has told me so" is ... a ridiculous position, I'm sorry.

[Peper81]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I wondered if Kate's friends had had the "he doesn't treat you right" conversation with her about previous dudes, perhaps over extended periods of time. I've been on both sides of the "I don't know what else to tell you; we've had this conversation many times. You know I think you should break up with him, so ..." talk and I wondered if Kate has a history of dealing with men who aren't treating her well, or who she's determined to stick it out with even though there's a Big Incompatibility Issue that can't be resolved.

I have also told a friend "Real talk: you look MISERABLE" when she was trying to convince me and herself that a terrible relationship was actually good, and I kept thinking that looking at Kate. She looks completely miserable. I don't know what she's like when she's not on this show - she had a pretty flat affect even before all Luke's fuckery - but she looks totally miserable all the time on it.

To the bolded, I do agree that she has somewhat of a flat affect when talking but what I did notice while they were watching their wedding video is how much she used to laugh and giggle.  I hardly ever hear her do that anymore which just adds to all the sadness around her.  Even that small little bit of life has been strung out of her.  Luke killed her joy.  It's sad.  

[Ilovepie]

2 hours ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

I don't expect this to happen:  

2 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

It’s so frustrating because I need the satisfaction of seeing someone really lay into him and then not letting him get away with it. Sadly, I don’t think it’s going to happen....

I don't either. That's why it's so frustrating to watch........

[Claire Voyant]

I'm so annoyed with this seasons MAFS, that when it's done, I may never watch it, again.  I'm seriously upset with the "experts" who aren't worth a tinkers damn.  

Plus, try tho I may, I can't for the life of me figure out wtf is wrong with Puke.  The elevator doesn't go all the way to the top with that one.  He's just so creepy. 

The fact that Kate let him anywhere near her after all his cruelty just drives me to to distraction.  He'd have needed to use a putty knife to get all of himself off the damn wall if it was up to me.  Ugly, freaky, smarmy, little bastard. 

Sadly, if Kate stays with him, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.  The girl shows no self esteem  at all.  All he has to say is "I like SOME things you do." and she's all smiles and hopeful they will last forever.  I don't get it.  I really don't.  

Now we know why AJ doesn't like to eat alone.  He wants to eat everyone else's food.  You done with that???  What a jerk.  Even when Stephanie told him she was NOT finished, he ate her food anyway.  Asshole.  I hope she runs fast and far, but I'm not betting on it. 

K&K...I think he's more into her than she's into him.   He may need to find another brood mare to bear his kids, cuz our Kristine isn't anywhere near ready to start pumping out his offspring. 

Will and Jasmine...stick a fork in them.  They're done.   

[kanona29]

On 3/27/2019 at 1:05 PM, Jeanne222 said:

Luke's good in bed and Kate wants to be married.  Luke enjoys somebody he can manipulate!  They will both say yes!  Sad but true.

Luke's good in bed??? That sounds like something Luke would say about HIMSELF *huge eye roll*

I don't think Kate is a Debbie Downer at all. She seemed perfectly happy, excited, and giggly until Luke broke her all the way down.  She continues to put on a brave and hopeful face when Luke is feeding her mixed signals and passive aggressive compliments. And her friends have even stated that she is noticeably different. So, that leads me to believe that she is not normal Kate right now and her current state is a direct result of the misery happening within this doomed partnership. 

The fact that Luke continues to complain about Kate's drinking and says it's a turn off for him - yet he drinks as much as she does and keeps the house stocked with alcohol shows you what a mindf**k he is playing on this show.

And his getting all upset because Kate talked about their intimate life behind his back with the experts, when he had already did the same thing by going behind HER back to complain about her "supposed" drinking.

Luke's gaslighting may work on Kate, but it doesn't work on me.

Bye, Luke, Bye.

And I still love Keith and Kristine together. There is genuine chemistry and appreciation for each other. I have enjoyed seeing Keith step out of his comfort zone for Kristine. I just hope he doesn't stop once the cameras are no longer rolling.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

Kanona29 said:

Quote

20 minutes ago, kanona29 said:

I don't think Kate is [was] a Debbie Downer at all. She seemed perfectly happy, excited, and giggly until Luke broke her all the way down.  ...And her friends have even stated that she is noticeably different. So ...she is not normal Kate right now and her current state is a direct result of the misery happening within this doomed partnership. 

And Dr. Pepper said pretty much the same thing Kate's friends did. 

I agree completely that Kate, in the beginning, seemed like a normal, and very hopeful, young woman.  

However for a therapist or counselor to build someone's self-esteem back up is, unfortunately, way more difficult than it is for some sick asshole like Puke to tear it down. 

[Empress1]

30 minutes ago, kanona29 said:

And I still love Keith and Kristine together. There is genuine chemistry and appreciation for each other. I have enjoyed seeing Keith step out of his comfort zone for Kristine.

And I liked that she recognized that and gave him credit.

[Matty]

I read something Serena Williams said about advice Oprah gave her regarding finding the right person. She told her, "Never let anyone dim your light." That advice stuck with her and she eventually found her person and is now happily married to Alexis Ohanian. Kate's light is so dim married to Luke you can barely see her in the room. Depressing and sad couple. There is no happiness or joy in any of their interactions. He has issues. Well, she does too. So they have that in common.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Matty

[Kareem]

On 3/27/2019 at 4:24 PM, stuckin60s said:

i think the thing with Will and Jasmine is that she shot herself in the foot the first time she mentioned money.  Her entire plan is to have someone pay for everything.  Do you remember the episode when he came home.  She was laying on the couch and she acknowledged him.  The place was messy and she was just laying there.  I think he is keeping his distance until the show is over.  She is lazy and over confident about herself.  She was upset when he gave her a low score ( her opinion). what has she done for him except make a minimal meal in a nightgown. 

He thought she must want a new car when she made dinner.  He's onto her but not into her, it seems.  

[Jeanne222]

Evidently Kate is not the damsel in distress that many are imagining.  Kate is almost 30 years old with no man and had to go on a dating show to find one.

We have no idea how her previous relationships went because those men are long gone!  Her five year but left because he didn't want kids with Kate.  Sad but true.

Evidently Kate's friends also have problems finding a man if they were attending Luke's rating service.E

While Kate was with her friends I watched the wine glasses.  The friends were close to half full while Kate's was empty!A

I think there are two sides to every story and I think Luke has gotten a bad rap this season!

[Marsh]

2 hours ago, Claire Voyant said:

I'm so annoyed with this seasons MAFS, that when it's done, I may never watch it, again.  I'm seriously upset with the "experts" who aren't worth a tinkers damn. 

This show sucks but keeps me hooked.  Reality shows are games for the viewers.  You study the people and predict what actions they will take in certain situations based on their personalities...  And I'm always wrong.  Especially on decision day.  It's pathetic but they got me again this season...  I'll be on the edge of my seat with my hands on my head watching Kate / Will / Steph's decisions. 

[pdlinda]

19 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Luke is like the cobra that hypnotizes his prey to get them where he wants him. 

That's only if his intended prey allows him to spew his pseudo "charm" and doesn't IMMEDIATELY pick up on his smarmy, sly, cunning and evil ways....for anyone with half a brain and/or sense of self, he'd be laughed at and recognized as the "player" he apparently prides himself on projecting and sent packing.  

[aphroditewitch]

1 hour ago, Jeanne222 said:

Evidently Kate is not the damsel in distress that many are imagining.  Kate is almost 30 years old with no man and had to go on a dating show to find one.

We have no idea how her previous relationships went because those men are long gone!  Her five year but left because he didn't want kids with Kate.  Sad but true.

Evidently Kate's friends also have problems finding a man if they were attending Luke's rating service.E

While Kate was with her friends I watched the wine glasses.  The friends were close to half full while Kate's was empty!A

I think there are two sides to every story and I think Luke has gotten a bad rap this season!

How is that any different than anyone else who goes on the show? They are all supposed to be single. 

Kate and her ex broke up because of religious differences. Which is completely different.

I'm pretty sure only one friend went and Kate went along to the speed dating event. Also, I'm not sure what the point is there. People meet using dating sites, apps, or dating events these days. I'm not sure how Kate and her friends are some how less than anyone else for doing so. Although you may have inadvertently hit on one of Luke's real problems with Kate is that he looks down on people who go to his speed dating events. Which is why his business will probably fail. And probably part of why his other get rich schemes have failed too. Despite his mother's praise of his "hustle", there are no rewards from any of that. Otherwise he would not have a car that according to his own words he cannot afford. 

We don't know how many glasses of wine they had. For all we know Kate was done after one glass while her friends had a second. We don't know this information. And frankly, the drinking allegation was always a red herring.

Luke did this to himself. He chose to lie, he chose to gaslight, he chose to accuse multiple people of having drinking problems, and he chose to be a jerk. No one did that to him. And when people who have met him like the rest of the cast and Jamie are all not having it with his lies, it goes beyond bad editing. We have not seen just one side of the story, we have heard from several people about what he is like as a person and none of it was flattering. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by aphroditewitch

[Empress1]

2 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Evidently Kate is not the damsel in distress that many are imagining.  Kate is almost 30 years old with no man and had to go on a dating show to find one.

We have no idea how her previous relationships went because those men are long gone!  Her five year but left because he didn't want kids with Kate.  Sad but true.

Evidently Kate's friends also have problems finding a man if they were attending Luke's rating service.E

While Kate was with her friends I watched the wine glasses.  The friends were close to half full while Kate's was empty!A

I think there are two sides to every story and I think Luke has gotten a bad rap this season!

Being 28 and single isn't weird, especially in a major city where people tend to marry later. Being single in general isn't weird or shameful.

Speed dating doesn't sound like fun to me but it's no stranger than using dating apps, which basically every unattached person does these days. It's the world we live in now and has been for some time. Meeting your SO via school or work isn't better than meeting them through apps. (I don't date people I work with as a rule; I don't like to mix business and pleasure.)

The wine glasses don't mean anything because we have no idea how that scene was edited or how many glasses they all had. Kate's friends could have killed a bottle each and Kate could have had one glass.

I have less sympathy for Kate than some do (I don't agree that she needs to or can be saved by the show; she's a grown woman with a job, money/credit and an apartment of her own, and plenty of evidence that this isn't working; she can leave this dude she's known less than two months at any time), but I don't support the "can't get a man" narrative for any of them; being single isn't a failing. And there's been no evidence presented that she drinks too much. Even when she asked Luke for an example of over-indulging, he couldn't give her one and she could point to times when Luke got so drunk he was puking (which is so gross. IMO the window for that closes in your 20s, you should know and stick to your limits by then).

Edited March 29, 2019 by Empress1
removed something irrelevant

[retiredviewer]

On 3/26/2019 at 9:50 PM, Marsh said:

Kate.  Oh COME ON.  You're so desperate to be married that you stay with this lifeless jerk who's putting on a show for tv. 

If she says she wants to stay married on the last episode, and Puke says it too, then I'm shocked and don't know what the hell I've been watching this season. Damn millennials. 

I've been watching Luke carefully. He has this look where he tilts his head and smiles at Kate. I used to think that meant he liked her. Now I realize it's his gaslight look. Look at me, everything is okay. Now it gives me the willies. Production should have stopped this relationship weeks ago.

[OnTime]

3 hours ago, Marsh said:

I'll be on the edge of my seat with my hands on my head watching Kate / Will / Steph's decisions. 

I don't think you need to be on the edge of your seat for decision day, wait until the reunion show. Then we will have the "real" decisions!!

Edited March 29, 2019 by OnTime

[Claire Voyant]

2 hours ago, retiredviewer said:

I've been watching Luke carefully. He has this look where he tilts his head and smiles at Kate. I used to think that meant he liked her. Now I realize it's his gaslight look. Look at me, everything is okay. Now it gives me the willies. Production should have stopped this relationship weeks ago.

He's still just weird.  His demeanor is off.  Way off.  It's like he's patronizing some dimwitted child when he looks at his wife.   I  keep trying to figure out what his agenda truly is and I honestly have no earthly idea.  What is motivating this guy?   How perverse is he?  He does seem to think he's some kind of wonderful, though, when all he really seems to be is a rather nasty piece of work. 

The fact that the "experts" didn't step up and say enough is enough makes me very angry.  They needed to admit they were wrong, put a stop to the torture and mental abuse of another human being and say, "NO MORE". 

It's obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that intensive counseling for both Kate and Luke should be a priority before something truly awful happens.  

The whole thing is beyond the pale when it comes to common sense and decency.  Puke has no idea about what it means to treat people with dignity and respect.  He seems devoid of empathy of any kind. 

While Kate tried to give voice to her feelings, all he would do was offer her his leftover shrimp.   🙄 

Luke and AJ seem much better suited for each other.   😉

Hey, Luke.  You done with your shrimp?  Nom, nom, nom. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Claire Voyant

[Mazzy]

On 3/27/2019 at 9:50 PM, OnTime said:

It would be Sam's reaction when Neil wanted a divorce!

I believe Jasmine will keep it together to "save face", but I believe she will be having an internal 'Sam reaction' when Will wants a divorce.

[ShowFan]

On 3/27/2019 at 2:56 PM, Retired at last said:

most of us think there is a monetary addition if they agree to stay married on D Day, per their contract

But even if there is a monetary incentive to stay on D Day, wouldn’t they we to pay for their own divorce after? I thought you get a free divorce if you decide to separate on D Day..that they show pay for the divorce 

[Neurochick]

On 3/27/2019 at 4:05 PM, methadonna said:

I really hope (but completely lack faith) that at least one of those "experts" will actually follow their ethical requirements as professionals (and simply human beings, supposedly) and try to get her whatever help she needs to see that the failure would be saving her marriage in exchange for losing herself, rather than pushing for a bullshit happy ending for what they think makes better TV and likely entrenches her further in this rabbit hole.

I don't think Kate would leave even if one of the experts said that to her.  Kate has said over and over again that being married is VERY important to her.  That's what she wants.  She wants to be married.

We don't live in a nanny state, where someone can swoop down, grab you and say, "you're ruining your life, STOP."  

[Crazy Bird Lady]

14 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

From Crazy Bird Lady: This is also pretty much my take on Puke and Kate, in a nutshell --except for the part where "he broke her': 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Kate and her ex broke up because of religious differences. ...I'm pretty sure only one friend went and Kate went along to the speed dating event. ...I'm not sure how Kate and her friends are some how less than anyone else for doing so. ...one of Luke's real problems with Kate is that he looks down on people who go to his speed dating events. ...We don't know how many glasses of wine [Kate and her friends] had. For all we know Kate was done after one glass while her friends had a second. 

Luke did this to himself. He chose to lie, he chose to gaslight, he chose to accuse multiple people of having drinking problems, and he chose to be a jerk. No one did that to him. And when people who have met him like the rest of the cast and Jamie are all not having it with his lies, it goes beyond bad editing. We have not seen just one side of the story, we have heard from several people about what he is like as a person and none of it was flattering.  

Edited March 29, 2019 by Crazy Bird Lady
forgot something

[Captain Asshat]

18 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Evidently Kate is not the damsel in distress that many are imagining.  Kate is almost 30 years old with no man and had to go on a dating show to find one.

We have no idea how her previous relationships went because those men are long gone!  Her five year but left because he didn't want kids with Kate.  Sad but true.

Evidently Kate's friends also have problems finding a man if they were attending Luke's rating service.E

While Kate was with her friends I watched the wine glasses.  The friends were close to half full while Kate's was empty!A

I think there are two sides to every story and I think Luke has gotten a bad rap this season!

OK, being 30 and not married does not make one a damsel in distress. What we know for sure is that she has issues with self esteem. I can only guess that makes her easily manipulated by the show and by anyone she dates. My opinion is that she should never have been chosen for this show. But TPTB love pliable people who they can keep in this situation. 

That said, Kate's esteem issues do not negate the things Luke has said to her. Those are completely on him, and his reputation is well earned. No, Luke is not responsible for Kate's initial esteem issues that I believe she came into this trainwreck with. However, he has still been a colossal jerk to her.

Kate has a lot of work to do on herself before she's ready for a BF or spouse. Luke has a lot work to do on himself with regard to empathy and tact before he's ready for a GF or spouse. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Captain Asshat
Missing words are bad.

[Empress1]

27 minutes ago, Captain Asshat said:

Luke has a lot work to do on himself with regard to empathy and tact before he's ready for a GF or spouse. 

I saw a few pictures of him with his Black or biracial ex floating around the internet and they look happy - hugged up, lots of smiles. (IMO she's very pretty.) I wonder how he treats women he actually likes? This doesn't excuse his behavior with Kate - even if you don't like someone, you can be tactful and polite, as you say - but I'm just curious if there's any kindness anywhere in there.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Empress1

[OnTime]

On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 10:16 PM, STRIDER1 said:

Because the so called " experts " are complete !@#$% !@#$% !@#$% morons themselves and couldnt even pick their own noses correctly, much less matching up 2 compatible humans with a semi-plausible chance of matrimonial success

Sadly, these so called "experts"/producers are more concerned with a plausible chance of ratings success!

Edited March 29, 2019 by OnTime

[love2lovebadtv]

15 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Being 28 and single isn't weird, especially in a major city where people tend to marry later. Being single in general isn't weird or shameful.

Speed dating doesn't sound like fun to me but it's no stranger than using dating apps, which basically every unattached person does these days. It's the world we live in now and has been for some time. Meeting your SO via school or work isn't better than meeting them through apps. (I don't date people I work with as a rule; I don't like to mix business and pleasure.)

The wine glasses don't mean anything because we have no idea how that scene was edited or how many glasses they all had. Kate's friends could have killed a bottle each and Kate could have had one glass.

I have less sympathy for Kate than some do (I don't agree that she needs to or can be saved by the show; she's a grown woman with a job, money/credit and an apartment of her own, and plenty of evidence that this isn't working; she can leave this dude she's known less than two months at any time), but I don't support the "can't get a man" narrative for any of them; being single isn't a failing. And there's been no evidence presented that she drinks too much. Even when she asked Luke for an example of over-indulging, he couldn't give her one and she could point to times when Luke got so drunk he was puking (which is so gross. IMO the window for that closes in your 20s, you should know and stick to your limits by then).

Well said. Especially the can't get a man narrative. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 3/27/2019 at 12:32 PM, bichonblitz said:

A bonus check? It's the only plausible explanation for his sudden turn around the last few episodes. He goes from being repulsed to wanting to stay married. Liar, liar, hipster pants on fire!

I kinda think he wants to be seen as the good guy who tried to stick it out with his alcoholic wife. 

[spunky]

On 3/27/2019 at 9:15 AM, Jaclyn88 said:

But then he would go back to eating alone, and as we know, that's his worst fear .

Lol. If he wasn't such a petulant child he wouldn't be eating alone.

[aphroditewitch]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I don't think Kate would leave even if one of the experts said that to her.  Kate has said over and over again that being married is VERY important to her.  That's what she wants.  She wants to be married.

We don't live in a nanny state, where someone can swoop down, grab you and say, "you're ruining your life, STOP."  

But Kate also said to the other women that she wants to be married to a man who wants to be married to her. Which seems to be an important point. A lot of people want to be married and marriage is very important to them but that doesn't mean they want to be married to an abusive garbage human like Luke. 

[LuvMyShows]

16 hours ago, retiredviewer said:

I've been watching Luke carefully. He has this look where he tilts his head and smiles at Kate. I used to think that meant he liked her. Now I realize it's his gaslight look. Look at me, everything is okay. Now it gives me the willies. Production should have stopped this relationship weeks ago.

Is that the same look that he gave when he first saw her at the wedding?  I can picture that look in my head, and it's nauseating in hindsight.  Recall that at the wedding, some people (her bridesmaids?) were remarking very positively about how he was looking at her, because if you don't know better, that look could I guess be considered a little smitten.  But I like the idea of calling it his gaslight look, since you know that while he was up there at the wedding making that look, his little brain was going a mile a minute about what on earth strategy he could come up with to deal with his disappointment/disgust (which he def didn't feel when he saw that girl that he recognized in the audience).

[ladle]

Maybe this is just me, but okay... AJ’s reactions to the shared mini-moon house: yes, whiny, irritating, and inappropriate. For sure. 

But other than that, he honestly doesn’t come off as all that angry to me. Most of the “angry” moments seem to be instances of a little bit of snippiness, heightened by dramatic music and editing. 

Like the scene where they’re driving to the airport and Stephanie wants him to turn one way but he’s convinced that’s wrong? To me, that seemed like a typical moment of friction a couple might have. Not a Huge Red Flag or anything. 

[Waterlilly]

To me, it’s Stephanie’s reaction to AJ at those moments. The look on her face tells me that these things happen too offen and maybe more intensely.  But, I don’t know that. Maybe her faces are edited in. I just know he would need to take it done a notch or more for me. 

Lucifer’s crap is too much of a trigger for me, I cannot...

Will is so different with anyone other than Jasmine, maybe that’s the side the “experts” saw. 

Kieth and Kristine, I wonder why she looked so sad. They have a lot of challenges ahead if they stay together. Number one being finding a home. 

[Jeanne222]

1 hour ago, Waterlilly said:

To me, it’s Stephanie’s reaction to AJ at those moments. The look on her face tells me that these things happen too offen and maybe more intensely.  But, I don’t know that. Maybe her faces are edited in. I just know he would need to take it done a notch or more for me. 

Lucifer’s crap is too much of a trigger for me, I cannot...

Will is so different with anyone other than Jasmine, maybe that’s the side the “experts” saw. 

Kieth and Kristine, I wonder why she looked so sad. They have a lot of challenges ahead if they stay together. Number one being finding a home. 

Isn't Kristine a realtor?  She'd have many sources to buy or rent!

[configdotsys]

15 hours ago, ladle said:

Maybe this is just me, but okay... AJ’s reactions to the shared mini-moon house: yes, whiny, irritating, and inappropriate. For sure. 

But other than that, he honestly doesn’t come off as all that angry to me. Most of the “angry” moments seem to be instances of a little bit of snippiness, heightened by dramatic music and editing. 

Like the scene where they’re driving to the airport and Stephanie wants him to turn one way but he’s convinced that’s wrong? To me, that seemed like a typical moment of friction a couple might have. Not a Huge Red Flag or anything. 

I see AJ as someone who does not play well with others. As soon as a situation requires a decision and it's not his, he has a hissy fit: the shower caddy, taking a picture off the wall in his apartment, the fit he threw about want to get lunch during a game but he didn't want to drink. He threw in a nice crack at the end about "that was the first decision I got to make this month," which considering that Stephanie shrinks away and says "okay" when he gets pissy, was a stupid thing to say. The producer assigned homework that they needed to do, the driving whichever way to the airport. The list goes on. Stephanie knew to get away when he was angry about the shared house and the booze came out. She was long gone and for good reason.

Smacking Luke in the ass and asking if he has a boner (I hate Luke, but let's be fair here) was uncalled for. Had he smacked one of the women in the ass and made a sexual comment, he would have been thrown off the show. He strikes me as an oversized man baby who turns red and will hold his breath if he doesn't get his way.

There is also the fact that those of us watching the show are assessing these people based on what we would do if paired up with such a person. Some people can let things run off them without reaction, some can't. The snip in his voice-- the "I hate those things" and walking away as they were supposedly decorating their new place together-- would have me out the door. Sorry bud, you don't speak to your significant other in that tone, ever. I get that things can get snippy if you are arguing about something but for her to show him something she bought for the apartment and him to react like that? Unacceptable and a sign his attitude. Again, some might write it off and think it's no big deal. Stephanie is a good example. She doesn't stand up for herself and takes it because of this obsession with having a husband. I seriously wonder what her friends and family think of AJ after watching this program.

[antfitz]

On 3/27/2019 at 9:49 PM, STRIDER1 said:

I noticed that too.  They said good bye twice when she was about to leave for the night to spend away from puke on the final night before D-Day.

1st time was in the bedroom when kate looked longingly into pukes eyes hoping for a loving reaction or a good bye kiss. they just hugged and thats it.

2nd time was outside the house and once again kate stared longingly into pukes eyes hoping for some sort of reaction indicating that he will miss her or something like that. as well as a 2nd opportunity for a tender moment good bye kiss. but nope, this time they just hugged again but kate did sneak in a last second kiss on the cheek on puke.

He seemed to have turned his face away so that it would be a quick peck on the cheek rather than on the lips. at least thats what it appeared to me. either way, he seemed very disinterested to me as well.

Then proceeds to throw out a " im just gonna watch you for awhile " fake comment to appear to be a nice guy while the cameras were still rolling

What a sloth loving freak douchebag POS !@#$% !@#$% [fill in the blanks] lol

 I agree with your description of him. The fact that is having sex with her, I think he is using her. He has no real interest in her. It amazed me that they were having sex after the way he treats her. She needs to get some self confidence in booties but out . I have a feeling she will say I don't want a divorce, and then he will say I do want one.  He is playing mind games with her stringing her along, as someone in here said, he is "gas lighting" her.

 I would not date one of these guys:

--One sleeps and acts disinterested.

-- One wants the "little wife" like his grandmother to take care of him.

-- One loses his temper and is weird.

--And then there is the biggest creep, Luke.  He uses her for sex but withholds affection.

[Neurochick]

38 minutes ago, configdotsys said:

I see AJ as someone who does not play well with others. As soon as a situation requires a decision and it's not his, he has a hissy fit: the shower caddy, taking a picture off the wall in his apartment, the fit he threw about want to get lunch during a game but he didn't want to drink. He threw in a nice crack at the end about "that was the first decision I got to make this month," which considering that Stephanie shrinks away and says "okay" when he gets pissy, was a stupid thing to say. The producer assigned homework that they needed to do, the driving whichever way to the airport. The list goes on. Stephanie knew to get away when he was angry about the shared house and the booze came out. She was long gone and for good reason.

Smacking Luke in the ass and asking if he has a boner (I hate Luke, but let's be fair here) was uncalled for. Had he smacked one of the women in the ass and made a sexual comment, he would have been thrown off the show. He strikes me as an oversized man baby who turns red and will hold his breath if he doesn't get his way.

There is also the fact that those of us watching the show are assessing these people based on what we would do if paired up with such a person. Some people can let things run off them without reaction, some can't. The snip in his voice-- the "I hate those things" and walking away as they were supposedly decorating their new place together-- would have me out the door. Sorry bud, you don't speak to your significant other in that tone, ever. I get that things can get snippy if you are arguing about something but for her to show him something she bought for the apartment and him to react like that? Unacceptable and a sign his attitude. Again, some might write it off and think it's no big deal. Stephanie is a good example. She doesn't stand up for herself and takes it because of this obsession with having a husband. I seriously wonder what her friends and family think of AJ after watching this program.

I agree with this assessment of AJ.  I listen to Afterbuzz TV's review of the episodes; it's on YouTube.  There are three women and one man who discuss the episode.  It is interesting that the man is the one who keeps defending AJ.   He feels AJ is normal and a lot of it is editing.  I think a lot of people feel that way.

My problem with AJ is how he reacts when things don't go his way.  When he didn't like the shower thing Stephanie bought, there was nothing wrong with him saying he doesn't like those things.  But the WAY he walked away from Stephanie, as if saying, "get rid of it."  

I compare how AJ acted in the gym to how Keith acted when Kristine brought him to the gym on their honeymoon.  Keith was more concerned with making Kristine happy; AJ was like, "fuck this," he complained and complained on and on.  Why couldn't AJ just say, "let me try this?"  What he did was walk off like a two year old.