S05.E17: Time Bomb

[Trini]

Quote

Team Flash finds out that a suburban mom named Vickie Bolen (guest star Catherine Lough Haggquist) is in danger and they race to save her. Upon meeting her, they discover she's a meta-human who is hiding her abilities from her family. Barry encourages Vickie to share her secret with her family, which makes Nora realize she needs to come clean with her parents about Thawne.

Rob Greenlea directed the episode written by Kristen Kim & Sterling Gates.

Airdate: 3/19/2019

[Trini]

One of the writers for this episode is live-tweeting BTW: https://twitter.com/sterlinggates

[SimoneS]

One of the best episodes of the season; Nora's secret revealed, Barry put her in the pipeline, and Cicada/Orlin is dead! Good job, show!

[ottoDbusdriver]

So where was 10 year old Grace while all this was going down ?  We didn't see her all episode.

I thought that what with the scratch test on the Time Sphere they were going to dose young Grace with the cure and then that would solve the problems with FutureGrace/Cicada 2.0.

I thought Grace was turning super-evil when she tossed Orlin around in the cabin, but then she outright stabbed him to death with his own dagger.  That's cold.

I admit I laughed pretty hard at the dagger chasing Nora all over Central City.

Did the announcer say no new episode for 4 weeks (April 16) ?

[tennisgurl]

Nora West-Allen, you are grounded young lady! You get in that pipeline and you think about you've done!

[shantown]

If Orlin was the consenting legal adult guardian to Grace, why couldn’t he ask that she be given the cure? Can’t they slap a pair of metacuffs on young Grace (as bracelets or something, not handcuffs) and dampen her dark matter brain damage? I though meta powers didn’t work near the dagger, so how are Nora and Barry able to speed run so close to it? Or Cisco able to create a portal next to it? I just have so many questions every time I watch an episode and it’s so frustrating. 

[cambridgeguy]

I see that Cisco has switched back to "my powers are a curse" mode.  Maybe it would be an easier sell if Kamilla had gotten hurt as a direct result of his powers. 

One of these days I'd like to see Team Flash's response to the victims of a meta criminal they could have stopped with the cure but didn't because of consent issues.  Sure. we could have stripped the villain of their powers and saved lives, but you know, we wanted to claim the moral high ground.  That's worth it, right?  At least they had that line about how the cure would probably kill present day Grace - at least being unwilling to kill someone who technically hasn't done anything yet is a more reasonable stance.

[mxc90]

Nice ending! Too bad it was the last 5 minutes. If they had cut out the stupid Cisco/Kamilla/Ralph scenes, we could have gotten some more to this Nora/Barry/Thawne story.

What's Eobard's plan by advising Nora to tell Barry everything?

Future Gracie is an impatient, hot headed asshole. Nice way to treat your uncle and doctor who helped you!

Mrs. Bolen seemed to have a nice power and could have assisted taking down Cicada instead of running. 

All the clues fell nicely in Sherloque's lap. Why was Eobard making a recording? Who was it for?

Nora wasn't the only person in Gracie's brain. Shouldn't the others have a connection?

Did Orlin catch a cab to get to the hospital? He got there quick!

I hope young Gracie learned her lesson: next time don't scream! Just grab the flying cash.

[bettername2come]

I let out a shocked laugh when Barry threw her in the pipeline. Grant Gustin does unshed tears so well. Glad to see Sarah Carter working. She's barely aged since Smallville. I liked that they had all of the enormous Team Flash there to give Nora the shocked stare. 

2 minutes ago, shantown said:

If Orlin was the consenting legal adult guardian to Grace, why couldn’t he ask that she be given the cure? 

I think the idea is they don't want to make any permanent changes to a person without their own consent, even if that would be fair to another medical consideration. I think Nora's anger over Iris blocking her powers is a contributing factor in that. 

Random new speculation: Sherloque is an self-amnesia'd Eobard Thawne posing as his doppelganger. That's why the clues added up for him so well - Eobard planted himself there at the same time as Nora. Insane? Yes. Too insane for this show? No clue.

[SimoneS]

Ah Nora, locked in the pipeline is Barry's version of a time out. You wanted a father, you got one. Should have told the truth before Sherloque found out.

The investigation of the new Cicada shows how there are too many metas and regulars on the show. I couldn't even miss Caitlin. They need to get rid of at least two metas and since Cisco is still whinging on about his powers and leading a normal life, he can be one of the two to go. I miss the old Cisco, even when he was ticked off at Barry, he was more interesting than this version. He should just take the cure. They should take away Cecile's meta powers also.

Adult Grace has some kickass powers as Cicada. She is formidable. I love how she can direct her daggers. It actually is understandable why it will be difficult to take her down. Too bad we didn't get her five episodes ago. She was ruthless killing her uncle, but I won't miss Orlin or Chris Klein. Klein was horrible to the end.

Important questions: How did Grace know to find the time sphere in Star Labs' remote secret vault? And which speedster helped her get the sphere to time travel? I am still leaning towards Thawne. Sherloque is right. He is moving them around like puppets. 

Edited March 20, 2019 by SimoneS

[ruby24]

I'm going to go ahead and predict that Barry and Iris will not kiss, or touch, or really even speak to each other for the rest of the season.

Amazing.

Oh, and Iris will definitely not be pregnant. The fact that I even once thought that would happen was apparently ridiculous.

Edited March 20, 2019 by ruby24

[jay741982]

UGH I can't stand Grace. Accidents do happen! And of Course a hypocrite since she has powers! So Is she gonna kill herself if she wipes out every Meta?

[Lantern7]

That was fun. Sherloque reveals Nora's deal in the most dickish way possible. Chris Klein no longer has to rasp, though that only lasted the one episode. And I'm half-certain that the writers decided to work in the two Time Capsules from Dragon Ball Z, with Grace being the stand-in for Cell.

Oh, and an episode of Seinfeld with Cisco as George. "If Relationship Cisco walks into STAR Labs, he will kill Vibe Cisco!! A Cisco divided cannot stand by himself!!" What sucks is Ralph coming back to the team and reverting back to "clueless asshole" mode. "Wait, so trying to introduce your girlfriend -- whose relationship with you is now social media-certified -- to our little gang was not a good idea? Huh. I did not think this through."

I'm guessing we'll get Nora's story next episode . . . which won't be in four weeks. Damn. Even with Legends of Tomorrow coming back, that still bites. Also, I'm thinking about hardcore fans trying to sync Nora's 2049 with the 2040 seen in Arrow. That must be a hobby for masochists.

ETA: I'm thinking "getting killed by exploding ATM after a 'meta' uses it" might be one of the more ridiculous deaths you can have in a comic-based show. Well, network TV, anyway. And that would barely qualify as "fucked-up" on Gotham.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Lantern7

[Lady Calypso]

Honestly, the whole episode was decent, but the ending really made it the best this season. Instead of Barry being sad or being nonchalant, he was ANGRY enough to put his daughter in the Pipeline. 

Seriously, you go, Barry! Honestly, I don't care that Nora was finally ready to tell him before Sherloque spilled the beans. She had months to tell him and never did. She deserves to be stuck in Star Labs' prison for a while.

I think talking to adult Grace was a bad move for Orlin, as it was shown. She has had years of anger and resentment so she's probably too far gone to convince otherwise. If Cecile could feel such rage from young Grace, I can't even imagine how much it grew to in adult Grace. 

I flip flop between feeling for Cisco and being annoyed by Cisco. But his explanation to wanting Camille away from anything Flash-related is probably the smartest move at the moment....though Ralph is also correct in that Cisco can't keep this secret from her forever because then he's not being his true self.

[SimoneS]

21 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Oh, and Iris will definitely not be pregnant. The fact that I even once thought that would happen was apparently ridiculous.

You never know. I have always thought that Iris would be pregnant by the end of this season or definitely before the crisis next season. 

[SimoneS]

53 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

Random new speculation: Sherloque is an self-amnesia'd Eobard Thawne posing as his doppelganger. That's why the clues added up for him so well - Eobard planted himself there at the same time as Nora. Insane? Yes. Too insane for this show? No clue.

I think that is unlikely. Although Thawne probably does have random time remnants all over the multiverse.

[tennisgurl]

Its amazing to see how much Barry has learned about the number one lesson of the Arrowverse: Do NOT keep secrets from your loved ones! It literally never ends well for anyone! Dang, Grant really does the devastated unshed tears so well, you can just see them almost falling but not quite, the man has got a gift. And I freaking loved that his reaction, after being betrayed and devastated, was to be freaking pissed. No more cool dad Barry, now its "young lady you are in so much trouble!" dad Barry! He was so mad, as he should be! She has been working with his greatest enemy, the man who killed his mom and framed his dad right in front of him just to dick with him, and she never told him the truth, even when she had ample opportunity to. 

The rest of the episode was quite good, but that ending was amazing and instantly makes this episode a million times better. I cant believe I have to wait four weeks to hear everyone tell Nora what an idiot she is!

I still have no idea why Cisco is on this "I hate having powers" bandwagon, its so random. He has never been this angsty about powers, even when his brother died or when he first got his powers and was having horrible migraines. Yeah his powers such sometimes, but this is just out of nowhere. 

So Cicada/Orlin finally sees the light, and is killed by the very niece he is so desperate to save/avenge. Oh the irony! Grace/Cicada 2 is way more formidable with her powers, and is way more believable as a threat than Orlin was, and she is also clearly way colder and more deranged. I mean, damn she stabbed her own uncle in the back with his own knife! Grace you are cold!

They really need to consider slapping some anti meta cuffs on kid Grace or something.

[BeautifulFlower]

I don't agree with locking Nora up in the pipeline. She deserves consequences for her lies, but not that.

[catrice2]

Has been going down since the first year, certainly the second. this episode was boring, I didn't even watch the last one. They need new writers. I never liked Cisco or any Harry, etc.

[adora721]

Dang it! We almost had a Caitlin-free episode😡.

Glad Barry locked up Nora; maybe some tough love will get her mind right.

Edited March 20, 2019 by adora721

[Trini]

I'll start off with a nitpick: Wait, how does Orlin know XS is from the future? Ugh- I know this is something that I'm just supposed to handwave, but time travel is still something that only a few people know is real in this universe, and even if someone figured that XS is the Flash's daughter AND that she and Flash are around the same age (2 big 'ifs'), I still don't think that time travel would be the conclusion drawn - but whatever, show.

So I'm really going to need this to be the last season with Tom Cavanagh as a regular, because I'm really tired of the writers creating superfluous characters for him and then said characters take screen time, arcs, and scenes that should be going to others. I hate that Nora didn't really get to confess, but was outed by This Year's Irrelevant Wells. It was the one thing I wanted out of this episode.

Well the secret is out finally, and I hope Nora enjoys her well-earned time out.

I don't believe Thawne is as clueless as he says. I think he had something to do with Gracada getting that Time Sphere. To what end? I don't know, but I know you can't trust Thawne.

"Operation Shazam" - hee! Nice DC plug, show. (Wait, does Shazam exist in this universe??)

So the metahuman mom, was she a 'particle accelerator meta', or an 'Enlightenment meta'? Did they specify? I'm just wondering how long she had her powers. Oh, and great power, BTW. She needs to be on the Team! (No, seriously she actually knocked down Cicada.)

So I guess two Cicadas were too many? I wasn't expecting Orlin to get killed - by Grace! I'm glad the better Cicada is here now, but I thought we'd get more of Orlin and Grace together.

So does this episode confirm that "meta-tech" can make someone evil? Because Orlin was being pretty reasonable now that he was cured. Speaking of, without Grace's next of kin, it seems like they really can't give her the Cure now (legally).

So the mind link(?) between Nora and Grace is definitely weird (and convenient!); but I guess we needed some type of advantage over this new leveled-up Cicada, plus they gave a semi-plausible explanation. It gives more fuel to my theory that there'll be a big hero daughter vs. villain daughter showdown at the end of the season.

So the B-plot: I did like seeing Kamilla again, and yay! she's going to be working with Iris. Her first employee! I know it was just for plot, but Ralph being so intrusive was a bit over the top, even for him. And I would have liked his heart-to-heart with Cisco more if I didn't think that Cisco was being kinda out of character with wanting to feel "normal".

After seasons of Cisco accepting and honing his powers, I just don't like this storyline for him. It feels inorganic and rushed. Keeping Kamilla away from STAR Labs/Vibe shenanigans at first makes sense, but him being insecure about his ability to do "normal" things whilst having powers is inconsistent with everything that has come before.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Trini

[VCRTracking]

I predict Nora is going to sacrifice herself, as in letting herself be wiped out of existence to create a new timeline where Barry doesn't disappear. He and Iris will have children but none of them will be Nora.

21 minutes ago, Trini said:

So I'm really going to need this to be the last season with Tom Cavanagh as a regular, because I'm really tired of the writers creating superfluous characters for him and then said characters take screen time, arcs, and scenes that should be going to others. I hate that Nora didn't really get to confess, but was outed by This Year's Irrelevant Wells. It was the one thing I wanted out of this episode.

They could have had Cavanaugh just be Thawne in the future and he would have earned his credit. Sherlocque serves the story the writers wanted, which is an outsider who would be suspicious of Nora and doggedly investigating her. They could have gotten Ralph of course, but he's frankly not a great detective. And OF COURSE they couldn't let Nora be the one to finally tell the others the truth. It had to be revealed in a way to make her look as bad as possible! How will Barry feel so betrayed he'd lock her in the pipeline if that happened? Most Arrowverse shows are slaves to what TV Tropes call the Rule of Drama:
 

Quote

If the potential for conflict is visible, then it will never be passed over.

Without drama and conflict, There Is No Show. A show where everyone gets along and nothing unpleasant happens will bore everyone. This is the reason for the Rule of Drama.

Does everything look conflict-free? Not so fast. Something new and unpleasant must be introduced out of the blue. This is why happy couples tend not to last until the very end of the story, unless writers can find good conflict without breaking them up.

The problem is viewers don't want that much drama as the writers think they do, at least not at the expense of the characters.

Edited March 20, 2019 by VCRTracking

[Trini]

7 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

They could have had Cavanaugh just be Thawne in the future and he would have earned his credit. Sherlocque serves the story the writers wanted, which is an outsider who would be suspicious of Nora and doggedly investigating her. They could have gotten Ralph of course, but he's frankly not a great detective. And OF COURSE they couldn't let Nora be the one to finally tell the others the truth. It had to be revealed in a way to make her look as bad as possible! How will Barry feel so betrayed he'd lock her in the pipeline if that happened? Most Arrowverse shows are slaves to what TV Tropes call the Rule of Drama:

I didn't like it, but I accepted that investigating Nora was Sherloque's storyline this season. I just wanted for Nora to at least get to say "I've been working with Eobard Thawne", was that too much to ask?? The scene could have still played out the same way.
 

7 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

I predict Nora is going to sacrifice herself, as in letting herself be wiped out of existence to create a new timeline where Barry doesn't disappear. He and Iris will have children but none of them will be Nora.

She's totally getting wiped. But I think that there'll be a 'new' Nora.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Trini

[thuganomics85]

Damn, shit finally got real in this episode!

At long last, Nora's secret is revealed thanks to Sherloque (even though it looked like Nora was right on the edge of confessing finally), and Barry goes into extreme "disappointed dad" mode, and tosses her into the pipeline to think about what she did.  Barry is not fucking around, huh?!  I kind of don't blame him, but knowing this show, this decision is probably going to somehow blow back on him (previews certainly hint that Iris isn't going to be happy about it), and considering how immature and gullible Nora is, she'll probably fully join Team Eobard now, if/when she escapes.  Parenting is so hard!

No surprise, Grace is already a more effective Cicada, since Sarah Carter can actually sound psychotic and not just like she smokes three packs a day, which was apparently Chris Klein's approach.  To his credit, he was a bit better when Orlin finally saw the light and tried to bring her back, but of course it was all going to lead to her just stabbing him in the back.  Again, parenting is hard!

Cisco's subplot was the fillerish of all fillers, but I do enjoy watching him and Ralph play off one another.  I do agree with Ralph that Cisco will only be able to keep his two lives separate for only so long.

Still glad to have Joe back!

While I'm OK with his "victory", I really do hope Sherloque bounces soon.

This certainly was a good episode to have before a hiatus.  Despite a pretty underwhelming season, it has certainly peaked my interest to see how this all goes down when it returns.

[AnimeMania]

7 hours ago, mxc90 said:

Mrs. Bolen seemed to have a nice power and could have assisted taking down Cicada instead of running. 

Her power was identical to a power someone evil on "The Gifted" had.

OK, here is how I want to see Lady Cicady be defeated. The hospital finds Orlin dead on the sidewalk. Grace with no next of kin and no one to pay her hospital bills, the hospital decides to pull the plug because they think she is brain dead. Lady Cicady just fades away due to all the mistakes she made messing around in the past. Nora watches in horror as Lady Cicady disappears realizing that this will probably be her fate as well for screwing with the timeline.

[ursula]

Barry's reaction at the end convinces me that he is the one who eventually chips Nora, and Iris allowed Nora to blame her to protect her idealized memories of her father. 

[cambridgeguy]

8 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I don't agree with locking Nora up in the pipeline. She deserves consequences for her lies, but not that.

Oh, I don't think she'll be in there for too long.   Her newfound ability to see through adult Grace's mind makes her too valuable to keep locked up.  Besides, this is the equivalent of being grounded and sent to your room.

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Cisco's subplot was the fillerish of all fillers, but I do enjoy watching him and Ralph play off one another.  I do agree with Ralph that Cisco will only be able to keep his two lives separate for only so long.

Well, apparently Kamilla is partially deaf because she and Iris didn't hear Cisco yelling at Ralph in the hallway.  That will help him keep relationship Cisco and superhero Cisco separate for a while longer.

[mxc90]

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Her power was identical to a power someone evil on "The Gifted" had.

Thanks for reminding me: I am 3 episodes behind.

Mrs. Bolen must be in complete control of her power or her husband hasn't been paying attention to her.

Mrs. Bolen never knew two people died at the atm was questionable. 

The revelation that the mayor had metas on the payroll, trying to hide the news of meta attacks to prevent panic back in 2017 is something the show should have covered more (give something meaningful for Iris to investigate). 

I guess the great citizens of Central City never noticed the Big Gorilla  or Shark or buildings crashing down to panic.

Edited March 20, 2019 by mxc90

[ottoDbusdriver]

5 hours ago, Trini said:

"Operation Shazam" - hee! Nice DC plug, show. (Wait, does Shazam exist in this universe??)

We also got a Lost reference in this episode, when Cisco was with Kamilla at CC Jitters.

Cisco: "Are you sure you want to do this ? I mean, this is a big deal. Like 'Not Penny's boat' kind of big deal."

'Not Penny's Boat' is what Charlie wrote on his hand and showed to Desmond right before Charlie drowned in The Looking Glass Dharma station.

[SimoneS]

I have to say that the reveal played out as I hoped it would including an angry Barry putting Nora in the pipeline. It won't last long, but I will take it. Bet Nora will appreciate her mother more now as Iris will no doubt be the one to convince Barry to be understanding and put his anger aside. I wonder how Joe will deal with the situation?

Was this the first time that Barry used his Flash ring since Cicso was able to get it back into the ring? I didn't think that CGI was very good. They need to work on improving it.

I liked Cisco telling Ralph that he "Peter Parkered" Kamilla. It was a nice reference to Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse. The Flash writer who live tweeted last night congratulated the film on its Oscar win. A nice reminder than while the DC and Marvel fanboys might be at war, most of the animators and others in the industry get along and wish each other well.

I also think that it is way too soon to tell Kamilla about Team Flash. I felt the same when Barry was dating Patty and Joe was dating Cecile. This show acts as if everyone marries everyone they date or that they have good break ups rather than letting things play out.

3 hours ago, ursula said:

Barry's reaction at the end convinces me that he is the one who eventually chips Nora, and Iris allowed Nora to blame her to protect her idealized memories of her father. 

I wouldn't be surprised.  I mean, how do you explain a child with speedster powers in nursery, kindergarten, etc. It would be dangerous and unrealistic to expect a child to keep such a secret. The questions I have are: Why Iris didn't tell Nora when she grew up? How did Nora find out about the chip and her powers? These are obvious questions that the show has conveniently ignored or maybe it intends to tackle them in an upcoming episode.

Edited March 20, 2019 by SimoneS

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Oh, I don't think she'll be in there for too long.   Her newfound ability to see through adult Grace's mind makes her too valuable to keep locked up.  Besides, this is the equivalent of being grounded and sent to your room.

Exactly. This was a reactionary thing from Barry; he just found out about Nora lying and the first thing he did was put her in the pipeline. It makes sense; Barry/Nora have had several conversations now about Eobard Thawne and how he ruined Barry's entire life. Even if Nora didn't know that before she came, she found out well after and she still stayed silent for several more weeks. Once she found out about Thawne from many episodes ago, she should have been honest about how SHE knows Thawne. She didn't, and I don't blame Barry for essentially grounding her. 

We know Nora won't be staying there for long, not with Iris around. Iris loves Nora too much to let her stay in the pipeline, so she'll obviously fight for Nora to get out (if she doesn't just let her out first). But Barry's anger at Nora is justifiable. She was working with the enemy...and we know she's STILL working with the enemy. That's a hard truth to face for Barry. Even after all of this information from Barry about Thawne, Nora is still willing to trust him. So if he wants to keep her in the pipeline for a couple of days, I don't blame him. It's not like Barry's planning to keep her in the pipeline for weeks. He's just really, really angry right now, and for good reason.

[SimoneS]

I hope we get a scene of Barry and Iris admitting that subconsciously they knew something was off with Nora. They have been dumbed down to make Nora's story work. There were red flags that they ignored including the danger to the timeline.

[adora721]

It did seem like Sherloque was revelling in his victory over Nora too much. For him, it was all about the win, and he didn't consider the emotional impact of outing Nora to her family in such a public way. I can understand why all of Sherloque's marriages fail. He must always be right, always win, and he does so without tact; that's gotta be horrible to live with daily.

[Writing Wrongs]

13 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Instead of Barry being sad or being nonchalant, he was ANGRY enough to put his daughter in the Pipeline. 

That really was the best part. I had to watch it twice.

[SimoneS]

22 minutes ago, adora721 said:

It did seem like Sherloque was revelling in his victory over Nora too much. For him, it was all about the win, and he didn't consider the emotional impact of outing Nora to her family in such a public way. I can understand why all of Sherloque's marriages fail. He must always be right, always win, and he does so without tact; that's gotta be horrible to live with daily.

The real Sherlock Holmes never married and no woman could put up with him so that is consistent. I am not a Sherloque fan and his ego was definitely on display last night when he told Iris that she was "a regular person" and in the scene revealing Nora's secret, but I don't think that he viewed it as a victory over Nora specifically as much as a moment of truth about Thawne, their real nemesis. As Sherloque rightly pointed out Thawne is the threat to all of them as he attempts to alter the timeline. Nora's stupidity has just allowed him to manipulate and use her as his tool. I do agree that Sherloque ignored the emotional impact on Barry and Iris, but I don't blame him. Nora had months to tell the truth and was stalling even at that moment. Besides it was a great dramatic moment for the show. 

[adora721]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I am not a Sherloque fan and his ego was definitely on display last night when he told Iris that she was "a regular person" and in the scene revealing Nora's secret, but I don't think that he viewed it as a victory over Nora specifically as much as a moment of truth about Thawne, their real nemesis. As Sherloque rightly pointed out Thawne is the threat to all of them as he attempts to alter the timeline.

I'm not against Sherloque revealing Nora's secret; it's how he did it that matters to me. He could have asked for Barry and Iris, perhaps even Joe and Cecile, to stay behind while the others went out to drink. He could have made it a West-Allen-only reveal, not a Team Flash reveal. Of course, Barry would tell the rest of the team afterwards. 

At the end of the day, Team Flash isn't Nora's family, no matter how many times they spout that line. The greatest emotional impact is on Barry, Iris, and Joe- her actual family. They needed to hear it together without the rest of the pseudo-family team in the background.  Based on what we know, Cisco, Ralph, and Caitlin aren't even in Nora's life in 2049.

I had the same response when they included Caitlin in the reveal that Cecile was pregnant; like why was she there dancing with the rest of the West-Allen family? It's not her family. And I'd feel the same way if it had been Cisco or Ralph.  It's not my Caitlin/KF dislike talking in this instance.

Edited March 20, 2019 by adora721

[jmonique]

I loved this show SO much in season 1, but I have been completely over the omnipotent super villains for three years already. Ugh.

[BeautifulFlower]

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I also think that it is way too soon to tell Kamilla about Team Flash. I felt the same when Barry was dating Patty and Joe was dating Cecile. This show acts as if everyone marries everyone they date or that they have good break ups rather than letting things play out.

THIS. A 10000000 TIMES THIS

This show operates in real time which means they've been together for only a month. Actually, maybe less than that. Either way, it's too soon for Kamilla to know the secret. This episode, they just made their relationship public. Ralph was annoying with his intrusiveness. I would think about telling her in about 6 months to a year of their relationship.

[BeautifulFlower]

12 hours ago, Trini said:

. Speaking of, without Grace's next of kin, it seems like they really can't give her the Cure now (legally).

The consent thing was stupid. Grace is a minor. They would need Orlin's permission to give it to her. Yet, they acted like Orlin didn't do just that the previous episode. 

Besides, the minute Orlin became a wanted criminal, Grace would be put in foster care. They would need the state's approval.

I need the writers to never write about any ethical ever again after this season.

[SimoneS]

2 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

THIS. A 10000000 TIMES THIS

This show operates in real time which means they've been together for only a month. Actually, maybe less than that. Either way, it's too soon for Kamilla to know the secret. This episode, they just made their relationship public. Ralph was annoying with his intrusiveness. I would think about telling her in about 6 months to a year of their relationship.

The most Cisco should tell Kamilla in six months is that he is a meta with powers. It is possible Kamilla had a bad experience with metas and dumps him on the spot or maybe she meets someone else so no sharing that Barry is the Flash and the others are metas. If they get serious and start talking about living together or an engagement then it is time to share the rest of the info. It is striking how they want each other tell their significant others the truth, but they were more than willing to keep Iris in the dark for months even as her life was in danger. The writers are so full of shit sometimes.

 

2 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

The consent thing was stupid. Grace is a minor. They would need Orlin's permission to give it to her. Yet, they acted like Orlin didn't do just that the previous episode. 

Besides, the minute Orlin became a wanted criminal, Grace would be put in foster care. They would need the state's approval.

I need the writers to never write about any ethical ever again after this season.

The consent thing is overblown. However, the fact is that they can't give Grace the cure anyway because it would cause the shard in her brain to move and kill her. It is actually a clever plot device from the writers because it means no shortcuts, Team Flash will have to find a way to stop crazy powerful adult Grace.

[BeautifulFlower]

14 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

The most Cisco should tell Kamilla in six months is that he is a meta with powers. It is possible Kamilla had a bad experience with metas and dumps him on the spot or maybe she meets someone else so no sharing that Barry is the Flash and the others are metas. If they get serious and start talking about living together or an engagement then it is time to share the rest of the info. It is striking how they want each other tell their significant others the truth, but they were more than willing to keep Iris in the dark for months even as her life was in danger. The writers are so full of shit sometimes.

 

The consent thing is overblown. However, the fact is that they can't give Grace the cure anyway because it would cause the shard in her brain to move and kill her. It is actually a clever plot device from the writers because it means no shortcuts, Team Flash will have to find a way to stop crazy powerful adult Grace.

It would've been clever if they didn't have Barry start off by saying "We need Grace's consent"

[SimoneS]

If anyone is interested here is screenshot of Nora's journal entries from Reddit. I feel like I lost a few IQ points reading them, but they do give some insight into her teenage mind. https://imgur.com/a/xWOUJO4

Edited March 20, 2019 by SimoneS

[Lambsilencer]

On 3/19/2019 at 11:09 PM, adora721 said:

Dang it! We almost had a Caitlin-free episode😡.

I figured that you would say that. 🙂 

Danielle Panabaker directed the next episode, so it was obvious why she was missing for most of this one, as she was preparing most of the time. But even though I love Caitlin/Killer Frost and have always adored Danielle Panabaker since way back when she first caught my eye in the short-lived show "Summerland", I get that if nearly every other regular besides Grant and Candice got to miss at least one episode this season, it would have felt right that she at least missed one, too.

[miasth]

The truth is out-Hurray!  I wish Sherloque had not did it in front of Team Flash though and kept it West-Allen only.

I do not normally get emotional over TV shows, but the end scenes nearly got me.  The look Barry cut Nora as he walked away after locking her in the pipeline.  His clear pain and conflict after she apologized and Nora breaking down.  Good acting all around.  

[ottoDbusdriver]

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

If anyone is interested here is screenshot of Nora's journal entries from Reddit. I feel like I lost a few IQ points reading them, but they do give some insight into her teenage mind. https://imgur.com/a/xWOUJO4

Seriously, Nora is supposed to be in her later 20s, but that is definitely the blog of a teenager, and I really can't stand the use of shrap and schway. 

Some of the future stuff in those screen grabs was pretty funny.
"I had Chipotle for the first time today!!! Man, that's some good schrap. I wish it were still around in 2049 -- curse you, 2023 Chicken Plague!
Fast food here is so different. It's fascinating to me that Subway sells sandwiches here.  After they embraced the whole 'yoga mat chemical' thing and became a yoga empire, the sandwich artists lost their jobs."

The chicken plague could possibly be a thing, but WTF is the deal with Subway in the future ?  Oh noesss, the sandwich artists lost their jobs.  Did they become yoga instructors ?


 

[rmontro]

Unlike most people here, I kind of like the Sherloque character.  But he was kind of a jerk the way he outed Nora before she could tell the truth.  He should have just encouraged her to come clean and tell her parents.  You could see that she wanted to, she just needed a push.  Like "I figured out your secret, Nora, you might as well tell them".

[Trini]

17 hours ago, ursula said:

Barry's reaction at the end convinces me that he is the one who eventually chips Nora, and Iris allowed Nora to blame her to protect her idealized memories of her father. 

I think it was most likely a joint decision, but still:

Nora (2049): "Ugh - Mom is way harsh! Dad must have been the fun one."

Barry (2019): "YOU THOUGHT!"

[SimoneS]

If Nora had spent less time judging Iris and hero worshiping Barry like a petulant teenager and more time getting to know her parents as an adult, she would have gotten to know who they truly are. She would have seen the darkness that lurks underneath in Barry and realized that he would not have taken her deceit well at all.

51 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Unlike most people here, I kind of like the Sherloque character.  But he was kind of a jerk the way he outed Nora before she could tell the truth.  He should have just encouraged her to come clean and tell her parents.  You could see that she wanted to, she just needed a push.  Like "I figured out your secret, Nora, you might as well tell them".

Maybe Nora would have told the truth if Sherloque had pushed her or maybe she would have come up with a time hack with Thawne to wipe out Sherloque's knowledge. Sherloque couldn't be certain. He didn't know that Thawne told her tell Barry and even if he did, isn't this allowing Thawne's plan to unfold? 

I admit that my opinion based on the fact that I don't trust Nora. Even in that moment in the cortex when Cecile said that she wanted to tell them something, I expected Nora to come up with a story to misdirect them. However, now that the truth is out, Nora will be forced to tell the truth or risk losing her parents so it is a relief.

Edited March 21, 2019 by SimoneS

[RobertDeSneero]

If I were a writer on the show, scenes like that are why Sherloque would probably be the supporting character I would find the most fun to write for.

[cambridgeguy]

6 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Maybe Nora would have told the truth if Sherloque had pushed her or maybe she would have come up with a time hack with Thawne to wipe out Sherloque's knowledge. Sherloque couldn't be certain. He didn't know that Thawne told her tell Barry and even if he did, isn't this allowing Thawne's plan to unfold? 

Yeah, how many times have we seen someone confront a potential villain alone and subsequently get knocked out/killed/etc.?  Sure, if he was a nicer person he would have told Barry and Iris privately but as mentioned earlier that's not really in Sherloque's character.  While I don't think he was doing an internal happy dance while spilling the beans there was some measure of vindication.  Remember, Iris has told him off for his "baseless" suspicions of Nora before and the team as a whole doesn't seem to think too highly of him so this was his big chance to prove that yes, he really is the greatest detective in the multiverse (take that, Batman!), especially since he cracked this case without anyone else helping him out.