S09.E14: Scars

[mightysparrow]

11 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

The people in Alex had good friends in the other communities, people they fought alongside in the Saviour War, would they really just play along with Michonne’s view for five years? That’s a long time to keep yourself isolated from good, decent, like minded people.

But they DID keep away.  Michonne isn't Negan or the Governor.  She isn't holding a gun to anybody's head or threatening their families.  Michonne isn't even Rick; there's no Michonnetatorship.  The community in Alexandria seems willing to go along with the estrangement.  It doesn't make sense, but it's not all on Michonne.  Now if the writers bothered to give more than a second's thought to this situation, it might make a bit more sense.

[OoohMaggie]

1 hour ago, marcee said:

I mean, there is something to be said for the feeling of safety and security in the Z-apocalypse.

Indeed, but the feeling of safety and security would be amplified many times if there were several communities all looking out for each other, all communicating, trading, interacting with each other, Michonne’s decision to stand alone surely weakens Alexandria’s position, who do they call upon for help if attacked or their crops fail?  What if they need specific medication or equipment such as the scanners at Hilltop.

Edited March 19, 2019 by OoohMaggie

[OoohMaggie]

5 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

Now if the writers bothered to give more than a second's thought to this situation, it might make a bit more sense.

I think you’ve just summed up the entire problem with the show!

[Gemini Gipsy]

18 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

Story-wise, where is Maggie supposed to be right now? We’ve seen Alexandria and the Kingdom but I completely forget if we’ve seen Hilltop this season. 

The constant time jumps, flash backs and mid-season hiatuses sure do make it difficult to remember what happened when. 

Didnt you hear? She is in the CIA.  

Sorry. Couldn't help it. Too easy. I know. 

Someone mentioned she took little hershel junior on a walkabout. 

As a side note-  I have dug my heels in the sand, I refuse to watch LC's new show because of the advertising overload. Its like I've already watched the whole series. Not to mention LC's inability to pull of an American accent is extremely distracting. I have enough of that in TWD.

[marcee]

5 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

Indeed, but the feeling of safety and security would be amplified many times if there were several communities all looking out for each other, all communicating, trading, interacting with each other, Michonne’s decision to stand alone surely weakens Alexandria’s position, who do they call upon for help if attacked or their crops fail?  What if they have an outbreak of disease or somebody needs a doctor, as far as I’m aware the two docs are at Hilltop, where does that leave Michonne’s policy?

I don't think any of US disagree with you - but that's what the council agreed to over the years. Chalk it up to a crappy plot contrivance.

[Haleth]

2 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

That conversation sounded to me as a subtle, (why?) hint to Lydia - "You could go away and save everyone else from having to deal with Elpha coming here looking for your ass."

But she did that once already. (Did the writers forget?). She left Hilltop but idiot Henry had to go rescue her. And ended up needing rescuing himself. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Haleth

[nodorothyparker]

Father Gabriel mentioned last episode that yeah, they have a council to rule on issues but Michonne assumed veto power as head of security and every issue conveniently became a matter of security, effectively rendering any contrary decision making by the council moot.  Sure, the council should have pushed back on that if they didn't agree with it, but considering that they'd nearly just lost all their children to an outsider they'd readily welcomed in, it probably felt easier and safer at the time to go along with it.  And you know how once you start going along with something, it very easily just becomes the way things are.  Or that's how they chose to write it.

In the flashback scene of Tara delivering the comically large charter to the Kingdom crew, Tara cites Alexandria's decision to isolate as the reason she's relocating from there to Hilltop.  They also briefly discuss some kind of illness outbreak at the Hilltop that Maggie apparently perceived the Alexandrians as being stingy on sharing supplies to help out with, prompting Tara to clean out the infirmary on her way out.  At the time of the episode, it was another one of those "well, okay then" throwaway lines that we were apparently supposed to see as another piece of the puzzle.

None of this will ever be satisfactorily resolved if they don't get Lauren Cohen back on the show.

[OoohMaggie]

13 minutes ago, marcee said:

Chalk it up to a crappy plot contrivance.

I don’t want to have to do that for the whole show 😭

[OoohMaggie]

17 minutes ago, Gemini Gipsy said:

Not to mention LC's inability to pull of an American accent is extremely distracting. I have enough of that in TWD.

You give us Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins, you get Lauren Cohan in return 🤗

[mightysparrow]

6 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

You give us Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins, you get Lauren Cohan in return 🤗

I was a six year old English girl, born and bred in London and I just thought Bert was American because I'd never heard ANYBODY talk like that.  I imagine American children probably thought the same thing about Maggie.

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Maybe with Rick's passing the Great Python of Authority passed to his girlfriend and all must obey? With this show, who knows?

I have to say: I am very fond of this particular model of Colt revolver - but upon reading this for the very first time, my brain went in a different direction from firearms altogether.  ;>

[OoohMaggie]

6 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

I was a six year old English girl, born and bred in London

Which part?

[Nashville]

24 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

I was a six year old English girl, born and bred in London 

17 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

Which part?

All of her, I’d expect.

<rimshot>

[mightysparrow]

20 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

Which part?

Kensington.  We left when I was 7.

Edited March 19, 2019 by mightysparrow

[tricknasty]

On 3/18/2019 at 10:47 AM, Ohwell said:

Looking at his face, it looks like Negan has gained a bit of weight.  I think he's kinda hot now.  Jail suits him.

Death would suit him better.

[OoohMaggie]

9 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

Kensington.  We left when I was 7.

Kensington? One of the most expensive places ro live nowadays, I hope your family kept the house, it’d be worth gazillions today. I was a South Norwood oik myself.

[OoohMaggie]

25 minutes ago, Nashville said:

<rimshot>

Rimshot? I think you should be shot for that effort 😋

[Colorado David]

Michonne trusted WAY too quickly someone who she hadn't seen in awhile.

[Mu Shu]

1 hour ago, OoohMaggie said:

You give us Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins, you get Lauren Cohan in return 🤗

Oh for the days of Maggie’s not so bad accent in comparison.

”Ahh emm Elpha. Ah want mah dawwwteh.  You want conflict,  Wrong anyynser. Thanykk yew Bayda.”

im so sorry Maggie. 

[AngelaHunter]

2 hours ago, Nashville said:

I have to say: I am very fond of this particular model of Colt revolver - but upon reading this for the very first time, my brain went in a different direction from firearms altogether.  ;>

Well, whichever direction that is, you have to admit that Rick always got results when waving around his Python - Michonne lost her mind and look at the Ocean women, ready to bash their own Grannies in the head after one glimpse. 

[GustavMahler]

It seems the writers are following in the footsteps of Telltale's Walking Dead video game regarding how kids interact with adults. Both Judith and Clementine are wise beyond their years, perhaps maybe a bit too much so.

[Giselle]

14 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

Wasn’t the Great Python of Authority placed in a wooden box? Until obviously The Brat decided to lift it and go and rescue Daryl, as most ten year old girls would do, I was trying to think what I would have done as a ten year old, but I was probably still watching Sesame St 🐸

Well if Michone won't smack her ass for doing something fool hearty the Great Python should everytime she shoots it. 

Oh, wait... this is TWD. Pint sized, string bean, 10 year old girls can handle the recoil.

[AngelaHunter]

8 hours ago, GustavMahler said:

Both Judith and Clementine are wise beyond their years, perhaps maybe a bit too much so.

I wouldn't say Judith is "wise". She is precocious for sure, and no doubt knows and sees too much but emotionally and mentally she is a child like any other, with her defiance, her running away all the time and her "Why can't I??" attitude.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I find it very interesting that NOBODY working on this show realize just how inappropriate Judith's relationship with Negan is.  They think this is going to redeem him but it proves that he hasn't changed one damn bit. 

Well that speaks to the fact that they think Negan is somehow redeemed and viable as a long-term, three dimensional character. Michonne even asked him if he told Judith what he did to Glenn and to Abraham and he responded in the affirmative, so apparently if Judith forgives him that makes it OK.

It just seems like no matter what horrendous things Negan did in the past three seasons we're supposed to forget about that because, gosh darn it, he's just so interesting and charismatic, right? And the show thinks Jeffrey Dean Morgan is a big draw.

I'm never going to forget him bashing in Glenn's skull and laughing and saying "That's so gross!" He's never going to be redeemed in my eyes. The world just doesn't work that way. Even if he's a "different person" now that doesn't mean he gets a free pass and doesn't need to be punished anymore. It's why murderers get life in prison or execution. We don't let them out just because they've seen the error of their ways. The whole thing is so disrespectful to Glenn.

I also think the show is overestimating our investment in Judith. Yeah she's Rick's kid (maybe) but this isn't someone we've followed since Season 1. This is a new actress we've only just met this season. For most of the show's history Judith was little more than a prop. I don't care about her the same way I did about Carl. The show thought they could just swap out Carl for Judith and that was a miscalculation.

Quote

Still so much dead space that took up Season 2 that I don't relish looking back at anytime soon. Lot of great moments that could've been condensed into a few eps imo.

True, but look at how well developed the characters were when they invested the writing in them. I felt like I knew every last one of the members of Camp Dinner Bell and Herschel's family. They were all fully realized, fully formed characters I cared about. 

There's barely anyone I care about now. Most of the characters are nameless blurs to me.

[Eulipian 5k]

Maybe Judith should open a 5-cent Psychiatrist stand like Lucy, from Peanuts. Then she can stay put and Negan  can babble with her all day long. Next clients, Hard-on-Henry, and Run-around-Rosita. There's a lot of P-ZA-SD going around.

[Gobi]

33 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Maybe Judith should open a 5-cent Psychiatrist stand like Lucy, from Peanuts. Then she can stay put and Negan  can babble with her all day long. Next clients, Hard-on-Henry, and Run-around-Rosita. There's a lot of P-ZA-SD going around.

And probably some ZA -STD to go with it.

[AngelaHunter]

29 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Maybe Judith should open a 5-cent Psychiatrist stand like Lucy, from Peanuts.

🤣

But I thought Negan had that job. People seem to go to him to vent and confide their problems.

53 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

It's why murderers get life in prison or execution.

It isn't even the murdering. It's the glee and joy and kinky pleasure he took in the murdering, torturing and raping that makes him irredeemable, fit only for Judith to spend her days with.

[Lady Iris]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

True, but look at how well developed the characters were when they invested the writing in them. I felt like I knew every last one of the members of Camp Dinner Bell and Herschel's family. They were all fully realized, fully formed characters I cared about. 

Very true. Although, Lori was just a pain in the ass all around. I do miss Dale and Glenn and Herschel.

As for trying to redeem Negan, its not possible. Lets just say for argument's sake it was possible, he hasn't even shown an ounce of remorse for brutally and that's what it was, a brutal vicious killing, of not one but TWO men. I cannot fathom what dreck they'll throw at us and expect it to stick and for us say, yep, all's good, all's forgiven and forgotten.

[Eulipian 5k]

20 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

But I thought Negan had that job. People seem to go to him to vent and confide their problems.

Negan as psychiatrist would be him prattling for 59 minutes, then, "But enough about me, how much bigger do you think my junk is?" "Oops, time's up, you owe me 5 cents and all your mattresses".

[theredhead77]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Well that speaks to the fact that they think Negan is somehow redeemed and viable as a long-term, three dimensional character. Michonne even asked him if he told Judith what he did to Glenn and to Abraham and he responded in the affirmative, so apparently if Judith forgives him that makes it OK.

He says he did but we don't know if he really did. He could have told Michonne he told Judith all the gory details just to get to her.

[tennisgurl]

So...that episode happened...

I wish we had gotten a whole arc with Rutina and the children of the corn, they seemed like they could be really cool adversaries, certainly better than when we were stuck with the Saviors for about as long as it takes bones to fossilize. Interesting episode, and I can kind of get why this incident would make Michonne want to avoid people, but it doesent totally work for me. Like, I can get them not wanting to bring in new people, or being more careful about it, but why stop talking to the rest of the communities, and the people they've known and loved for years? And now they all have such serious beef with Michonne, and vice versa? Like, I dont see Maggie or Ezekiel deciding to suddenly brainwash a bunch of kids to kidnap other kids and be all feral and crazy any time soon. It thought that the X marks and all that would be a more dramatic payoff, and yeah thats pretty freaking dramatic, but not quite as much as I expected. I did like it alright though. Honestly, I am kind of into this season. Its not anywhere as good as the glory days of seasons past, but its certainly not as bad as the last few seasons. For awhile, this show was like a chore to sit through, and it still kind of is, but less so than it used to be. 

Danai is just so good though, I always love a Michonne centric episode, she can carry a whole episode in a way that a lot of actors just cannot. And even in flashbacks I liked seeing the friendship between her and Darryl again, they have a really easy comradely chemistry together. And Rutina is always so great to see, it was fun seeing her play a villain, and she and Dania worked really well together. 

So Judith knows what Negan did to Glenn and Abe and to countless others, and she is just cool with it? Thats pretty fucked up, even in this universe. I have no desire for a Negan redemption arc, none at all. Not too long ago, he was gleefully murdering innocent people, running his own creepy harem, and being a general monster to everyone we know, I dont want to see him be a good guy or be creepily pals with Judith, even after everything he did to her family. I just want him gone!

Edited March 20, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Eulipian 5k]

56 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

So Judith knows what Negan did to Glenn and Abe and to countless others, and she is just cool with it? Thats pretty fucked up, even in this universe. I have no desire for a Negan redemption arc, none at all.

Did he remember to show her the Polaroids they took after he "roughed them up", (as he probably described it)?

[AngelaHunter]

3 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Negan as psychiatrist would be him prattling for 59 minutes, then, "But enough about me, how much bigger do you think my junk is?" "Oops, time's up, you owe me 5 cents and all your mattresses".

Best laugh I've had today and Bonus! It's all accurate.

[SimoneS]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So Judith knows what Negan did to Glenn and Abe and to countless others, and she is just cool with it? Thats pretty fucked up, even in this universe. I have no desire for a Negan redemption arc, none at all. Not too long ago, he was gleefully murdering innocent people, running his own creepy harem, and being a general monster to everyone we know, I dont want to see him be a good guy or be creepily pals with Judith, even after everything he did to her family. I just want him gone!

Kirkman is never going to give up on trying to redeem that piece of shit. Even Yvette Nicole Brown was doing her bit to stay on the show by claiming that Judith accepting Negan means that he has turned a corner or some shit like that. I am just pleased that Gimple and Kang have given Negan minimal presence this season. Next season might be completely different.

[Gobi]

If they wanted to give Negan a redemption arc, they should have toned him way down from the comics. No Lucille, no harem, no burning faces. He still could have killed Glenn and Abe, but as an execution in retaliation, not a head bashing party. But that would have required much more sophisticated writing. He could have been a villain without being ridiculous.

[Kanner]

Negan can’t be redeemed for me either. So if they ever have Daryl say a chummy word to him I will throw up. At least Judith is a child and was too young to really remember firsthand what he did. Stories can never top reality. 

On another note, it took be a while to realize when Daryl came out of the school he had new blood spatter on his face and two bloody knifes. Are we to assume he did some killing of his own off camera?

[mightysparrow]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Well that speaks to the fact that they think Negan is somehow redeemed and viable as a long-term, three dimensional character. Michonne even asked him if he told Judith what he did to Glenn and to Abraham and he responded in the affirmative, so apparently if Judith forgives him that makes it OK.

It just seems like no matter what horrendous things Negan did in the past three seasons we're supposed to forget about that because, gosh darn it, he's just so interesting and charismatic, right? And the show thinks Jeffrey Dean Morgan is a big draw.

I'm never going to forget him bashing in Glenn's skull and laughing and saying "That's so gross!" He's never going to be redeemed in my eyes. The world just doesn't work that way. Even if he's a "different person" now that doesn't mean he gets a free pass and doesn't need to be punished anymore. It's why murderers get life in prison or execution. We don't let them out just because they've seen the error of their ways. The whole thing is so disrespectful to Glenn.

I also think the show is overestimating our investment in Judith. Yeah she's Rick's kid (maybe) but this isn't someone we've followed since Season 1. This is a new actress we've only just met this season. For most of the show's history Judith was little more than a prop. I don't care about her the same way I did about Carl. The show thought they could just swap out Carl for Judith and that was a miscalculation.

So well said!

The people that run this show are complete idiots.  Gimple and Kirkman got off on making the murders of Glenn and Abraham as gory as possible, as much as Negan got off on bashing their brains out.  They were so gleeful, thinking they were being 'cutting edge'.  And now we're supposed to forget all about it and cozy up to Negan as if he didn't rape, torture, mutilate scores of other people along with brutally murdering two of the most popular characters.  JDM is a competent actor but he's not good enough to pull that off and the writers and showrunners don't give him or the character he plays any help at all.  What adds insult to injury is that they have an annoying 10 year old vouching for this psychopath.

Edited March 21, 2019 by mightysparrow

[mightysparrow]

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Danai is just so good though, I always love a Michonne centric episode, she can carry a whole episode in a way that a lot of actors just cannot. And even in flashbacks I liked seeing the friendship between her and Darryl again, they have a really easy comradely chemistry together. And Rutina is always so great to see, it was fun seeing her play a villain, and she and Dania worked really well together. 

Danai really is THAT good.  And Danai and Rutina were amazing together.  It's such a shame that Jocelyn is gone and Alpha is still lurking around.  At least Rutina can do a credible Southern accent.  That alone should have kept her for a few more episodes. 

[AngelaHunter]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Michonne even asked him if he told Judith what he did to Glenn and to Abraham and he responded in the affirmative, so apparently if Judith forgives him that makes it OK.

And of course, Michonne believed him, because he's so trustworthy. No way would Negan have told the kid anything resembling the truth. Even if he did mention the deaths, he would have made it not his fault. Judith is a child and to her - as with any kid - anything that happened before her time is hazy, ancient history and not real. Negan is real to her. Glenn and Abe are not. And for sure Uncle Neeg never informed her about his crimes, like keeping a harem of coerced, subjugated women for his sexual pleasures, or his other little activities, like The Iron and hurling a doctor into a fire. 

[Colorado David]

7 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't think Negan will ever redeem himself, but I can envision a scenario where he puts his life on the line to save people.  That won't change anything, because there will always be the "yeah buts".   Yeah, you did good Negan, but that won't offset all of the horrible crap you've done in the past.

I see Negan somewhat going off the deep end in a repentance measure, and giving his life to save a bunch of the groups he's wronged thus far. it's a typical awful effer gives a last good move to turn things right measure. 

[theredhead77]

Their attempt at redeeming Negan isn't working on me, but it is eliminating my desire to turn off the TV whenever I see JDM. He seems to be a lovely man and I was getting annoyed that his character was ruining his other work for me.

[heisenberg]

On 3/19/2019 at 6:20 PM, nodorothyparker said:

Father Gabriel mentioned last episode that yeah, they have a council to rule on issues but Michonne assumed veto power as head of security and every issue conveniently became a matter of security, effectively rendering any contrary decision making by the council moot. 

But...  They already have a wall! 🙂

[raven]

This topic is for events in the episode Scars - not how much you hate Negan and/or like JDM.  There's a topic for that.

There's a topic for complaining about the show as a whole.

If you're going to put so much effort into your posts and don't want them disappearing, put them in the correct place.

[tricknasty]

Too bad Aaron is not bi-sexual. He and Michonne would make a beautiful couple. 

[Boofish]

They should hire soap writers for Negan's redemption arc. NO ONE can redeem a rapist, murdering, lying psychopath like a soap opera.  

[Eulipian 5k]

The minivan-chariot Michonne was in at the end of this episode makes sense. I hope they did a NASCAR type removal of unneeded heavy equipment - like engines, body panels, etc, Why not put Henry on that detail, converting vehicles into non gas powered, post ZA roadsters.. They can even do Mad Max style conversions. They just would need a "Pigs Town" to manufacture methane based fuel for vehicles.