S03.E16: Don't Take My Sunshine Away

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

She had a pretty idyllic childhood and while she works, her career is pretty family-friendly. She just doesn't want kids, so she doesn't have any. It's that simple.

It really is that simple.  If you don't want kids, or you have to have them, I think the smart thing is to state this up front.  When, I say up front, I don't necessarily mean appetizers on the first date, but probably within the first five so you don't get too attached.  I'd actually say, if it's really important, by the end of this first date it's not a bad idea.  Just make sure the date realizes it's just for informational purposes and you are not assuming a first date will lead to marriage.

[buckboard]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Edited March 22, 2019 by buckboard

[buckboard]

 JUDY OBSCURE wrote:

She was a nice hostess, but Beth did ask for a phone charger before it was offered.  I would have done the same thing the hostess did if I had a charger.

 I just told my husband that some people think we can't have people for dinner anymore because we don't have phone chargers.  He wants to know if we can still have barbeques this summer?


SERIOUSLY?  You're upset that Beth asked to use a phone charger before the hostess offered her one?   I had no idea this was such an enormous social faux pas.  When did this become such a big deal?  Either the hostess has one and it takes two minutes to plug in or she replies, sorry, we don't have one for your phone.  No one will be offended if there wasn't one available.  And, Beth wasn't going to sit by the outlet for an hour as her phone was charging.

It would take more time for Beth to go to the restroom than to start charging her phone.   Was it offensive for her to have asked to use the restroom after being on the road for 2-3  hours?

Edited March 22, 2019 by buckboard

[Ohmo]

On 3/20/2019 at 5:40 PM, After7Only said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Zoe gets pregnant, but I think she'll keep the baby.  I took Sophie's "You always get what you want" to mean choose Zoe and you will charm her way until having your kids.  

I didn't take Sophie's comment so literally.  I thought it pointed toward that Kevin appears to get whatever he wants, but yet he's very unhappy.  I didn't think the comment was specifically about a baby or about Zoey, but about Kevin's life being sort of an illusion.  He's an attractive, personable guy who appears to have it all, yet he's never been truly content and happy.  He always seems to be searching for contentment, and he's yet to realize that his contentment can't come from Zoey, Sophie, Kate, a play, Ron Howard's movie, the Manny, or drinking.  It has to come from within himself, which is why I think he and Zoey will eventually break up.  She's a free spirit who is content with her life and her choices.  He is not, so I don't think any relationship that he has right now will be successful,  He has to learn to have a relationship with himself first.

[bybrandy]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

(I don't personally know anyone who doesn't have a phone charger in their car, especially someone with kids who need to be checked on, but the show said what it said.)

People with kids who also have phones that need to be charged and swipe them from the car?  I keep a phone charger in my car but sometimes I find it is not where I left it.

[ljenkins782]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I take her at her word, too, and don't blame her for being late.  I never said I thought she was rude for being late, and I don't think it would have been any help to her hostess if Beth had been able to tell her she was going to be late, the pork chops would have been just as dry.  What I thought was rude was not being late, but asking for a charger.  That was a circumstance within her control.  I would have thought she was rude if she had asked for a napkin.  It would have been very easy for her hostess to go get her a napkin.  The point wasn't how hard a thing was, but that, purposely or not, Beth had already been a lot of extra trouble for her hostess and it wasn't a good moment to be asking favors, even teeny tiny ones.  It was a good time to sit down and eat and forget her damn phone until after the meal.

This was a dinner, after the meal is when the guests get up and leave. Asking for a charger at that point would have meant about 5 minutes of charge time before getting back into her car and driving the 2 hours home again with a dead phone. 

Based on this post, I'm not sure anything Beth could have done would have satisfied you as a hostess. She was late due to circumstances outside of her control and if even a heads up to the hostess that she would be late wouldn't be good enough for you, what would have been? (In my opinion, if she'd been able to alert the hostess, they would have served dinner without her thus avoiding the dry pork chops, but with the dead phone, she couldn't.) 

Quote

 I just told my husband that some people think we can't have people for dinner anymore because we don't have phone chargers.  He wants to know if we can still have barbeques this summer?

I don't see the point of straw man arguments like this, even in jest. Not one person even implied that the hostess was obligated to give her a charger. Had she asked and the hostess said no, that would have been the end of it. 

Quote

I just did a search to see what Miss Manners says about chargers.  She says guests should bring their own chargers the way they bring their own toothbrushes, but she's old, so I don't trust her to have kept up.

Yes, they should bring their own chargers. And they should charge their phones before leaving home. And their husbands should probably not ask them to schlep 2 hours out of their way in an already busy life just because he didn't think he could get through a dinner on his own. 

Sometimes shit happens. People forget stuff and then they have to ask someone else to help them out with some extremely minor detail like a phone charger. Surely Miss Manners does not advise ruining a dinner party by throwing a world class hissy fit over a simple request. 

[DoItToIt]

Hey did anyone happen to catch baby Jack's last name (Toby's surname) on his incubator placard? I read "Jack Pearson __________" and didn't catch the rest.

[theatremouse]

Damon.

[maggiemae]

Good grief - plugging a phone into charge takes 5 seconds, if that. On the way to the bathroom after a 3 hour drive. sigh

Best not touch a cell phone while driving in my state. Even in traffic.

OTOH, pull over and plug in the charger and then continue driving.

[Ohmo]

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

That scene with one of the parents giving 13-year-old Deja her clean laundry was baffling to me. Deja and Tess are old enough to do at LEAST their own laundry, and they could do the family's laundry too. (

I agree with the girls being old enough to help with household chores, but I disagree with leaving them home alone for several hours.  Deja's 13, not 16 or 17.  Tess and Annie aren't her siblings, and even if they were, that's a lot to make a 13-year-old that responsible for two younger children.  I speak from experience.  I have siblings that are three and four years younger than me, and my parents had me "watch" the other two when I was 13-14.  They never listened, which was no big shock.  Thirteen or fourteen isn't old enough to command any sort of authority.  I finally told my parents to quit doing it or either expect crap to happen.  It puts Deja is an unfair position.  I agree with those who say hire a high school senior or college student for a couple of hours a week.  That's what my parents did.  Randall and Beth don't have to have a fancy nanny or au pair.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Ohmo
I'm older. My siblings are younger than me,

[TwoGrayTabbies]

I remember before cell phones became common that guests frequently asked to use their hosts’ phones, to call a parent, or a babysitter, etc.  It was understood these requests were for brief, local calls when a quick update was wanted.  I would have been surprised if a host refused the request or showed annoyance.  Requesting to borrow a phone charger and isn’t a materially different request.  

I also remember back in pay phone days it was not unusual for someone to ask for a quarter to place a call.  Ideally, people would carry enough change to be prepared to place a pay call, but if they happened to get caught short, they might ask as a favor, preferably with a promise to pay back ASAP.

If the host doesn’t have a charger, she just says so, and that’s the end of it.  But in a world where cell phones are nearly universal, it’s not outrageous to politely ask.  

[cmpbl]

Beth and Randall both got on my nerves.

Why did Kate have to name the baby Jack Pearson? Really?

This will most likely be the only baby they have, why couldn't his middle name be after Toby or at least his side of the family.

I really don't care at all about Kevin and Zoe.

[DebbieM4]

On 3/20/2019 at 12:12 AM, Amethyst said:

It really was horrible.  That "showing housewives how to twirl" remark was particularly mean.  And Randall telling someone to grow up is laughable.

Exactly.  He immediately went to anger and rage, insults and demeaning.  A mature adult would have given her the benefit of the doubt, at least initially.  Or been worried.   There's no reason why he couldn't leave a message that said, "Are you okay?  Still coming?"   Instead, he jumped right into immaturely insulting her, hitting her right where he knew it would hurt.  So much undeserved hostility.  It was awful.

On 3/20/2019 at 2:40 AM, NUguy514 said:

I could barely watch any scenes involving Randall.  It's gotten too uncomfortable, and I knew Beth had heard his voicemail as soon as she arrived at that godforsaken dinner.

OK, Randall defenders, after that indefensible voicemail, whatcha got?  Because my counters are "no," "nope," "hell no," and "fuck no."

I was sure she had heard it too, and showed up anyway.  Because that's very Beth.

And yes, there's just no way to defend what he said.  For a supposedly intelligent man, that was incredibly stupid.  Anger (if it needed to be expressed at all) should have waited until he knew she was actually a no-call, no-show.  But even in that circumstance, belittling her like that was horrible.  It was just a dinner, and she's supposedly the love of his life.  Randall has completely lost perspective and has a distorted sense of priorities.  I hope he enjoys his little foray into politics because it may end up being all he has.

[Infie]

Quote

from Neurochick:

 I wonder though if Beth has ever told Randall just what dance means to her.

Personally, I don't think that should matter, because it implies that Randall deserves to judge the relative value of Beth's decisions.  *nosewrinkle* I feel like I just said that badly, but it's something that drives me absolutely crazy in real life - the idea that when a person wants something or makes a decision, that they then are required to justify that decision to other people, and that those other people have to agree for that decision to be considered valid.  Beth's decisions are valid without requiring Randall's agreement of their worth, and vice versa.  That doesn't mean that they're always right or that they're always going to agree - but it means that the validity of their choice is not subject to the other person's bias.  So, Randall believing that this dinner for him is important is valid, and his believing that the results will be better with Beth there is valid.  And so is Beth's belief that her attendance at the drinks meeting to discuss the future of the dance academy is important for her future.  She shouldn't have to sit Randall down and tell him that it's important to her over and over so that he can verify her reasoning.  The relative value of her choice against his is not up to him to evalute. 

I've never understood this concept - I can  understand talking through competing requests to decide jointly which is more important, but I don't understand when someone says 'I have X to do' that I get to say 'well, your X is unimportant and my Y is important, therefore my Y wins.'.  You don't have to explain why you like X.  X doesn't have to be your lifelong passion for me to accept its value to you.  

I believe that Beth chose to go to the dinner because it *was* an existing commitment, despite what it would cost her in terms of involvement in the next steps of the dance academy.  And I've been to those kinds of meetings, and absolutely the critical decisions are made there.  I believe that she was running late, and that there was an accident, and that her phone died, and that she listened to the message after she arrived but before she sat down to dinner.   I believe it because I have lived it.  

And I suddenly feel like a unicorn, because I do not have a car charger.  🙂

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

This was a dinner, after the meal is when the guests get up and leave. Asking for a charger at that point would have meant about 5 minutes of charge time before getting back into her car and driving the 2 hours home again with a dead phone. 

Based on this post, I'm not sure anything Beth could have done would have satisfied you as a hostess. She was late due to circumstances outside of her control and if even a heads up to the hostess that she would be late wouldn't be good enough for you, what would have been? (In my opinion, if she'd been able to alert the hostess, they would have served dinner without her thus avoiding the dry pork chops, but with the dead phone, she couldn't.) 

I don't see the point of straw man arguments like this, even in jest. Not one person even implied that the hostess was obligated to give her a charger. Had she asked and the hostess said no, that would have been the end of it. 

There's no straw man, not one but three separate people said that if I couldn't accommodate people with chargers then I shouldn't host.

   I"ve already said   I don't fault Beth at all for being late, so I don't get the "nothing she did would satisfy you" part.  I not only don't fault her for being late I don't think she needs to apologize for not calling even if she could have, because I don't  think calling first would have made much difference even if she could have.

The only  thing I said against Saint Beth is that I thought it was rude (just a minor rudeness not a federal offense about equal to burping) to ask for a charger the minute she got there.  If she was planning to eat and run, immediately after dinner, then I guess it's true, she wouldn't have time to charge it before leaving and she would have to drive 2 hours with a dead phone.  So what?  I drive 16 hour stretches with no phone on a regular basis, it doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

2 hours ago, buckboard said:

 Was it offensive for her to have asked to use the restroom after being on the road for 2-3  hours

No.  Why do you think charging a phone has the same importance as using the restroom?  One is a vital physical need and the other is an entirely unimportant option that can wait indefinitely.

[DebbieM4]

On 3/20/2019 at 11:26 AM, txhorns79 said:

Honestly, given Sophie isn't in the picture for the family anymore, Kate's situation isn't really her business. 
 

Just in my experience, I know I've left unpleasant messages, but I thought ridiculing Beth's job and generally demeaning her as someone who is "teaching bored housewives how to twirl," was well beyond the level of acceptable frustration that spouses sometimes feel towards one another.   

Intimate details may not be her business, but at one time this was her family too and there's a very long history.  I think it would be completely natural for Kevin to tell even a much more casual friend that his sister had just had a baby.

I agree with your thoughts re unpleasant messages.  There was quite a bit of hostility there, and ridiculing is never okay, especially in this situation when he jumped to the conclusion that she wasn't coming.  He was pretty quick to be really nasty.  I don't think that's normal in a marriage, and it's certainly not something I would find acceptable.

[NUguy514]

23 hours ago, GodsBeloved said:

Beth asked for the restroom and then a phone charger. Randall said he had one in the car and would give it to Beth later but the hostess said "No problem, we've got them all over the place."

OK, I'm clearly on glue then!😆

16 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

im sorry guys , but I’m more team Randall than Beth with this one . Yes , the voicemail was brutal and he deserved a smack down for that ... but he told her how important it was for her to be at the dinner with him and she made a commitment to go . Then because she gets invited to a work outing the next day , she cancels on Randall after he already told the guy that they would both be there . I have to say , I was surprised to read on this board how many people thought Beth was in the right for this . If roles were reversed and Randall made a commitment and then canceled on Beth , I feel like people would still be blaming Randall . And then her getting mad that he wasn’t there for a 2 second speech someone said about her ? After his busy day , he made it and saw the whole recital . I know I’m in the minority , but Beth grinds my gears . Not just this episode , but most of them . 

Except Beth didn't cancel on Randall.  She expressed her desire to go for drinks and see if interesting work opportunities arose from that time, and Randall told her that she had previously committed to join him and that he wanted her there.  As such, she honored her commitment and showed up to that godforsaken dinner, so what exactly are you talking about?  That she asked to back out in the first place?  There was a valid reason for that, and she ultimately didn't back out, so I don't see how anyone can criticize her for canceling on Randal when she...didn't.

12 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

No.  Why do you think charging a phone has the same importance as using the restroom?  One is a vital physical need and the other is an entirely unimportant option that can wait indefinitely.

In the USA in 2019, there really isn't the great chasm between these two requests that you seem to want there to be.  I get that you don't have a cell phone, but upwards of 95% of Americans, many of whom have no other phone of any kind, do and use them to communicate with people in multifarious ways.  While I agree it would be incredibly rude to be focusing on your phone during a dinner, it's not an "unimportant" thing in the aggregate.

Edited March 22, 2019 by NUguy514

[DebbieM4]

13 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

No.  None of this.

The facts are that Randall jumped to a wrong conclusion and left a venomous, belittling voicemail for his wife and that Beth did not, in fact, blow Randall off and showed up to the dinner, honoring the commitment she made to him.  Beth is not in the wrong in this particular instance.  Finding reasons for her to be in the wrong is a specious exercise because the facts are what they are.  Much of this bullshit should be chalked up to plot contrivance for the sake of drama, so let's blame the lazy writers for that.

Also, am I on glue, or didn't the hostess actually offer Beth a charger for her phone without Beth's actually asking first?  I feel like she just offered it to Beth, so I cannot possibly comprehend why Beth was so rude as to accept that offer.

Great post!

And I also don't see the problem with Beth charging her phone when she arrived.   My recollection is that the hostess offered, but even if she hadn't it would be perfectly fine for Beth to ask.  Not only should her children (and others) be able to reach her, but it's also a safety issue - She should be able to call for help in case of car trouble, etc.  The #1 reason I got my first phone years ago was because I often drove alone at night.   It makes no sense for Beth to drive home with a useless phone, especially a long distance, when it takes less than 2 seconds to plug in a charger.   I can't imagine that anyone there wouldn't have understood.  I don't see it as rude at all.

Edited March 22, 2019 by DebbieM4

[DebbieM4]

13 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Really?  A host's job is to do whatever the guests want you to do?  Stop dinner and iron your shirt? Give you a perm? Toss out the pork chops and fix you a steak?  If you aren't willing to accommodate your guests demands you shouldn't be hosting them?  

  I think the guest has a few jobs,  like being on time, and if circumstances make you late then you sit right down at the table and start eating rather than cause further delay by asking for favors. 

I don't own  the essential  phone charger so I guess I'll have to forgo any future dinner parties. I mistakenly thought it was all about providing a nice meal in pleasant surroundings.  I guess I'm just a silly baby boomer.

 I'm a Baby Boomer too, and I completely disagree.  These are not fair comparisons at all.

As a hostess, I would never want to have someone drive away with a dead phone after leaving my home, and as a guest I wouldn't hesitate to ask.  Charging a phone is not a big deal, but driving long distances with a phone that's useless very well could be.

Hostesses accommodate guests all the time in much bigger and more time-consuming ways.  Providing a charger was probably the easiest thing the hostess had done all day.  I doubt anyone there gave it a second thought.

Edited March 22, 2019 by DebbieM4

[DebbieM4]

9 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

 I take her at her word, too, and don't blame her for being late.  I never said I thought she was rude for being late, and I don't think it would have been any help to her hostess if Beth had been able to tell her she was going to be late, the pork chops would have been just as dry.  What I thought was rude was not being late, but asking for a charger.  That was a circumstance within her control.  I would have thought she was rude if she had asked for a napkin.  It would have been very easy for her hostess to go get her a napkin.  The point wasn't how hard a thing was, but that, purposely or not, Beth had already been a lot of extra trouble for her hostess and it wasn't a good moment to be asking favors, even teeny tiny ones.  It was a good time to sit down and eat and forget her damn phone until after the meal.

 

  She was a nice hostess, but Beth did ask for a phone charger before it was offered.  I would have done the same thing the hostess did if I had a charger.

 I just told my husband that some people think we can't have people for dinner anymore because we don't have phone chargers.  He wants to know if we can still have barbeques this summer?

Charging her phone after the meal makes no sense since they would be leaving right after the meal.  It can take awhile for a phone to charge so it would be far more of an imposition on the hosts to request the use of a phone charger just as the evening was winding down.  That, IMO, would not have been considerate.

It's not fair to say that Beth "had already been a lot of extra trouble".   It's not as though she deliberately showed up late and then walked in demanding all sorts of things.  From what we saw, she was a very good guest.   I'm just not understanding the, "Walk in, sit down, eat your dinner, and get out" mentality.  I've never been a guest in the home of anyone (even formal business dinners) where I was made to feel that those were the rules, and that getting up to use the bathroom or asking for a glass of water might be some kind of major etiquette breach.

Edited March 22, 2019 by DebbieM4

[DebbieM4]

7 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I am Team It's OK to Ask Your Host for a Phone Charger. It might be a generational thing. I liken it to asking to use someone's phone to check in with the babysitter, in the days of land lines. (I don't personally know anyone who doesn't have a phone charger in their car, especially someone with kids who need to be checked on, but the show said what it said.)

I don't think it's a generational thing.  I'm young at heart but not in age (!), and I have friends older than I am who I'm sure would have no issue with being asked to borrow a charger.  I actually know very few people (of any age) who don't own phones and use them in one way or another, some just for emergencies, but most for all kinds of things - including driving directions, internet, etc.   I think people who own phones understand, and realize that asking to borrow a charger is really not a big deal.

I agree that it's like using a host's landline to check in with the kids or babysitter, an ill parent, whatever.  I haven't heard of anyone doing that in years - It's a great analogy, and no one ever seemed to think that was rude.

Personally, I always have a car charger in my car and I carry a charger with me all the time.  But life happens, and things are not always where they're supposed to be, so I don't blame Beth for finding herself without one.

6 hours ago, Katy M said:

If you don't have a charger, you just say you don't have a charger.  Like I said earlier, I have an ancient phone and I don't think my charger is compatible with anyone I know.  It doesn't mean I can't have guests.  If they need to charge their phone, they're out of luck.

Exactly.  I wouldn't assume that chargers would be available in every home I visited.  But there's no harm in asking.   If they don't have one, they don't have one.  

Edited March 22, 2019 by DebbieM4

[LoveLeigh]

On 3/21/2019 at 4:06 AM, DakotaLavender said:

Maybe. But I think they are just making him look bipolar. So many of the characters just no longer seem right. Beth also has a bipolar feel to her with regard to her kids. And I am not liking Kevin any more. 

For me, something changed with this show. I don't want to say it is no longer "heartwarming" but it has a real weird angry feel to it now. I think Jack kept the balance. I know he is still around in the episodes, but this show for me changed lanes. I don't like the present day plots: I am not interested in the "political Randall" story line, I don't like the "Beth the dancer" story line (although I appreciate her having aspirations) and I hate to admit I am not interested in Kate.

I think this series thrived best when the scenes were with the kids in the past when Jack was alive. Jack had charisma and grounded this show. 

I sort of changed my mind about this episode after I watched it again. I liked it. Maybe I pay more attention to the details on a second viewing. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Re: chargergate - it usually takes about an hour to charge a phone, so Beth asking if she could charge her phone when she arrived made sense because that way it could charge while they were having dinner and then it would be ready to go when she left. I'm all for efficiency. And when someone drives 2-3 hours to have dinner at your house, it seems polite to ask if they need to use the bathroom or if there's anything else they need after sitting in their car for so long!

17 hours ago, happykitteh said:

If there was to be an "important discussion" at Beth's drinking party her bosses should have scheduled it with more notice.

Randall's boss invited them to dinner on pretty short notice too (the day before) and Randall said that this was an important social event because the boss decides the committee assignments. If Randall's boss can schedule such an important dinner the day before, then Beth's boss inviting her employees to an after work meeting on short notice is about the same.

13 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It's also the new normal that when someone's battery dies and we can't reach them, we assume the worst (well I know I do, and some people close to me do.)  Which is kind of silly, but everyone's always near their phone and we expect an answer.  You kind of have to triple that with Beth  being a mother of 3 kids.

For me, the worst is when someone calls me but doesn't leave me a message. My paranoid mind (I may have watched too many Law & Order reruns in my youth) assumes that they have been kidnapped and thrown into the trunk of a car and they have finally managed to free their hands so they can call me to tell me that they have been kidnapped but the kidnappers opened the trunk of the car before the person I know could say a word. But yes, people do assume the worst if they don't get a response!

For the record, when Beth was at the recital, she looked at her phone and we could see that she had texted Randall three times and gotten no response, yet somehow she managed not to leave him a nasty message accusing him of deliberately ditching her event or belittling his job choice.

10 hours ago, Cowgirl said:

It was driving me crazy wondering from where I  knew the actress who played the doctor or nurse drawing the baby's blood. I looked on IMDB and she wasn't listed.  It wasn't until I woke up the next morning that it popped into my head that it was Kirsten Nelson, who played the chief of police on Psych.  *Whew!*

It was driving me crazy last week and then she tilted her head a certain way and I heard Shawn saying, "Chief!" in my head.

5 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I agree with the girls being old enough to help with household chores, but I disagree with leaving them home alone for several hours.  Deja's 13, not 16 or 17.  Tess and Annie aren't her siblings, and even if they were, that's a lot to make a 13-year-old that responsible for two younger children.  I speak from experience.  I have siblings that are three and four years younger than me, and my parents had me "watch" the other two when I was 13-14.  They never listened, which was no big shock.  Thirteen or fourteen isn't old enough to command any sort of authority.  I finally told my parents to quit doing it or either expect crap to happen.  It puts Deja is an unfair position.  I agree with those who say hire a high school senior or college student for a couple of hours a week.  That's what my parents did.  Randall and Beth don't have to have a fancy nanny or au pair.

ITA that they're old enough for chores and that a babysitter for a few hours after school would fit their needs without breaking the bank. They don't need a full time live in nanny. They just need someone who can keep an eye on them after school, take them to their various activities, make sure they're doing their homework/not burning down the house, and generally supervise them so that none of the kids are in charge (which helps prevent fighting among siblings).

3 hours ago, Infie said:

Personally, I don't think that should matter, because it implies that Randall deserves to judge the relative value of Beth's decisions.  *nosewrinkle* I feel like I just said that badly, but it's something that drives me absolutely crazy in real life - the idea that when a person wants something or makes a decision, that they then are required to justify that decision to other people, and that those other people have to agree for that decision to be considered valid.  Beth's decisions are valid without requiring Randall's agreement of their worth, and vice versa.  That doesn't mean that they're always right or that they're always going to agree - but it means that the validity of their choice is not subject to the other person's bias.  So, Randall believing that this dinner for him is important is valid, and his believing that the results will be better with Beth there is valid.  And so is Beth's belief that her attendance at the drinks meeting to discuss the future of the dance academy is important for her future.  She shouldn't have to sit Randall down and tell him that it's important to her over and over so that he can verify her reasoning.  The relative value of her choice against his is not up to him to evalute. 

I've never understood this concept - I can  understand talking through competing requests to decide jointly which is more important, but I don't understand when someone says 'I have X to do' that I get to say 'well, your X is unimportant and my Y is important, therefore my Y wins.'.  You don't have to explain why you like X.  X doesn't have to be your lifelong passion for me to accept its value to you.  

I believe that Beth chose to go to the dinner because it *was* an existing commitment, despite what it would cost her in terms of involvement in the next steps of the dance academy.  And I've been to those kinds of meetings, and absolutely the critical decisions are made there.  I believe that she was running late, and that there was an accident, and that her phone died, and that she listened to the message after she arrived but before she sat down to dinner.   I believe it because I have lived it.  

I agree with all of this, and I just wanted to add that people have made comments about Beth's sudden interest in dance, as if this means Beth's desire to teach dance is some kind of whimsy. Just because she doesn't talk about it all the time doesn't mean it wasn't there. She was so just busy with a full time job and two kids and people like William and Kevin moving into her house that she probably didn't have the time or energy to think about things like what used to bring her joy or which dream job would bring her deep satisfaction. Not every adult goes around saying, "I wish I were a _______" to their friends and family day in and day out.

And to be fair, if we hadn't gotten all those flashbacks of Kate singing as a kid, wouldn't her sudden desire to become a singer after Toby made her sing seem sudden too?

[bybrandy]

37 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I agree with all of this, and I just wanted to add that people have made comments about Beth's sudden interest in dance, as if this means Beth's desire to teach dance is some kind of whimsy. Just because she doesn't talk about it all the time doesn't mean it wasn't there.

As opposed to Randall's desire to become a landlord in a building in a town 2 hours away, and Randall's desire to become a city council person in a town 2 hours away from his home.   One of those things was his passion suddenly and they went all in.   The other thing became his passion suddenly and they went all in.   I feel like Randall's response to Beth's crazy idea in the Beth centric episode indicates that he knew about the dance, but literally if she pulled it out of a hat yesterday it isn't more crazy than any of his out of the blue career decisions which have been supported by the family.   

[ShadowFacts]

I can't believe I'm spending keystrokes on chargergate at this point, but my perspective is slightly different/hasn't been mentioned.  I would gladly lend someone my charger (if it fit their phone, which is not super likely), but at the very same time, I would not have asked to borrow one in Beth's situation because that was her first time meeting the hosting couple, the first time at their home.  That would hold me back from asking favors, that's just the way I am.  Secondly, I would have my husband follow me home in a 'convoy' so if anything happened he would be there, with his phone.  I have done this many times.  Adds a layer of security when driving in new places.  Of course Beth couldn't do this because she wanted Randall on a cot, a doghouse, or anywhere but near her.  Understandably.  (And I am blown away by the passion around phone charging.) 

[Mrs. DuRona]

11 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

but he told her how important it was for her to be at the dinner with him and she made a commitment to go . Then because she gets invited to a work outing the next day , she cancels on Randall after he already told the guy that they would both be there

Only, she didn't cancel.  She told Randall she was invited for drinks, and wouldn't be able to make it to dinner, but he put his stubborn foot down and she (deflatedly) said ok.  She showed up.  She was gracious and the perfect doting politician's wife.  I absolutely buy that there was an accident (you don't make that up as an excuse - way too easy to confirm), and that her phone died.  It is entirely possible her car charger wasn't in her car, I take things out of my car that I need all the time.  It's also possible if she has a portable charger, it was dead.  Happens all the time.  Team Beth all the way.

[ljenkins782]

7 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

There's no straw man, not one but three separate people said that if I couldn't accommodate people with chargers then I shouldn't host. 

No, I think they said that if you would get this upset about someone asking for a charger, then perhaps you shouldn't host people. 

Quote

  I"ve already said   I don't fault Beth at all for being late, so I don't get the "nothing she did would satisfy you" part.  I not only don't fault her for being late I don't think she needs to apologize for not calling even if she could have, because I don't  think calling first would have made much difference even if she could have.

Calling to let the hostess know would have allowed the entire dinner to proceed as planned, thus avoiding the idea that Beth would have caused her hostess "so much trouble" by the time she committed the ultimate sin of asking for a charger. 

Quote

The only  thing I said against Saint Beth is that I thought it was rude (just a minor rudeness not a federal offense about equal to burping) to ask for a charger the minute she got there.  If she was planning to eat and run, immediately after dinner, then I guess it's true, she wouldn't have time to charge it before leaving and she would have to drive 2 hours with a dead phone.  So what?  I drive 16 hour stretches with no phone on a regular basis, it doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

Right, it's abundantly clear that you don't have much use for phones. But other people do. Most other people do. And this storyline involved her being stuck in traffic for hours with no way to let anyone know. So on her drive home to her 3 children, who were presumably with a babysitter who had an expectation of when the parents would be home, it would be useful to have a working cell phone in case she got stuck again. 

Quote

I agree with all of this, and I just wanted to add that people have made comments about Beth's sudden interest in dance, as if this means Beth's desire to teach dance is some kind of whimsy. Just because she doesn't talk about it all the time doesn't mean it wasn't there. She was so just busy with a full time job and two kids and people like William and Kevin moving into her house that she probably didn't have the time or energy to think about things like what used to bring her joy or which dream job would bring her deep satisfaction. Not every adult goes around saying, "I wish I were a _______" to their friends and family day in and day out.

To me, it's not the suddenness of the interest, it's the fact that it doesn't seem to be the time to follow it. How much money could a part-time dance teacher make? They have that big house and 3 kids, it's not cheap. 

FWIW, I feel the same about Randall continuing down this path of a job that doesn't fit into their lives in any way. Too far away, too time-consuming, and probably also doesn't pay all that well. 

Most of us have "dreams" that we'd love to chase, but doing so wouldn't allow us to support ourselves, so we do our jobs and find joy elsewhere. It's hard to root for them to drop it all to pursue their passions when they have so many responsibilities to consider. 

[Tikichick]

14 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

 I take her at her word, too, and don't blame her for being late.  I never said I thought she was rude for being late, and I don't think it would have been any help to her hostess if Beth had been able to tell her she was going to be late, the pork chops would have been just as dry.  What I thought was rude was not being late, but asking for a charger.  That was a circumstance within her control.  I would have thought she was rude if she had asked for a napkin.  It would have been very easy for her hostess to go get her a napkin.  The point wasn't how hard a thing was, but that, purposely or not, Beth had already been a lot of extra trouble for her hostess and it wasn't a good moment to be asking favors, even teeny tiny ones.  It was a good time to sit down and eat and forget her damn phone until after the meal.

  I just told my husband that some people think we can't have people for dinner anymore because we don't have phone chargers.  He wants to know if we can still have barbeques this summer?

Actually you said she'd been a pain in the ass already for being late, and then you judge her as insufferably rude for mentioning a phone charger.  

It seems the hostess in this episode took a page from the etiquette I was raised with and elected to lead with graciousness when everything and everyone didn't go to her designated plan.  That's a lesson that would definitely benefit Randall in many ways.

Some people cannot see that other people can do some things differently and respect it as a valid choice, even if that means ultimately resorting to demeaning it as teaching bored housewives to twirl.  Depending on how our work is structured and what's happening in particular my husband and I can go weeks without texting each other.  And then a quick 20-minute trip to the store can lead to 3 or 4 texts going back and forth between us.  It's no one's business but ours whether how much we do or do not text each other is valid or appropriate.  Attempting to force the constructs of our marriage on any other couple wouldn't fit, nor would I expect it to -- or vice versa.  I certainly don't think it's appropriate to demean how other people conduct their lives simply because we've always done it differently, or we never found the need for X or Y.  

[JudyObscure]

46 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I can't believe I'm spending keystrokes on chargergate at this point, but my perspective is slightly different/hasn't been mentioned.  I would gladly lend someone my charger (if it fit their phone, which is not super likely), but at the very same time, I would not have asked to borrow one in Beth's situation because that was her first time meeting the hosting couple, the first time at their home.  That would hold me back from asking favors, that's just the way I am.  Secondly, I would have my husband follow me home in a 'convoy' so if anything happened he would be there, with his phone.  I have done this many times.  Adds a layer of security when driving in new places.  Of course Beth couldn't do this because she wanted Randall on a cot, a doghouse, or anywhere but near her.  Understandably.  (And I am blown away by the passion around phone charging.) 

I agree with this and it's part of why it seemed rude to me --first time there, just arrived, people already sitting down to dinner -- etc. 

I'm like Beth, I think she's great.  I can like someone and still think they made a minor etiquette mistake.  The last one of these four page arguments was last year when I thought Randall was rude for telling Rebecca and Miguel they should have called first after they stopped at his house on the way home from a play. 

The hostess, of course, was perfectly polite just as I am when people are late to dinner at my house.  I don't know why anyone thought I expected the hostess to act any other way or "have a hissy fit."  One never responds to rudeness with rudeness.  Might she have sighed inwardly at one more delay to her dinner?  I think she might have.

My, 'I'm a silly baby boomer," was just in reply to the post I was answering that concluded with "I'm a silly millennial."  Didn't mean to throw my generation under the bus.  All my old friends have cell phones.  One of them frets every time we meet for lunch because, "What if something happens on the way and you can't call me!"  Note, she's not worried about me being hurt in an accident, but herself sitting in a restaurant uninformed.  I love her though and I'm willing to look at all the grandchildren pictures on all my friends phones.

The charger thing really is something new and  interesting to me.  I had always just figured you set your phone in something at night and viola you were charged for the day by morning.It's fine that others love their phones, but now that I know the added inconvenience of the regular need for charging I'm even more convinced one wouldn't be worth the bother to me.

I realize 95% of people have cellphones.  I've just never wanted a phone myself because (1)I didn't want to keep track of the thing, (2) I like being "alone" when I go shopping or where ever, (3)I like having my landline act as butler, picking up and screening my calls, (4) carrying a phone all the time would make me feel less independent.  (5) I happen to think that someone like Beth is safer driving 2 hours without a phone than with one.  Phones don't keep you from having accidents, but they're involved in causing accidents quite often.  Just imagine if she had been driving when she heard Randall's voicemail.

[ClareWalks]

The charger took about ten seconds of airtime. Ten seconds. I'm astonished that it has caused this much angst on the forum.

[GodsBeloved]

Not to change the subject, well yes to change the subject.

Re: Kevin telling Sophie about Kate's baby. He did, it just didn't make the cut. I saw a script page on instagram and Sophie said I can't believe Kate had a baby and then the conversation turns to Sophie's fiance.

I have no idea how council positions work but does Randall really need to be appointed to one (or several) committees? I mean if this is about taking care of HIS district, how does being on committees help HIS district in a real, hands on way? I thought Randall would be the new politician, the one who actually cared about the people, not about having a political career.

Edited March 22, 2019 by GodsBeloved

[Katy M]

Just now, GodsBeloved said:

I have no idea how counsel positions work but does Randall really need to be appointed to one (or several) committees? I mean if this is about taking care of HIS district, how does being on committees help HIS district in a real, hands on way? I thought Randall would be the new politician, the one who actually cared about the people, not about having a political career.

It might also take away from his snow shoveling time.  He did promise to be out there shoveling the snow with the residents.  Yes, he should have a few more months before he has to worry about that at this point, but he should be thinking about it.

[GodsBeloved]

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

It might also take away from his snow shoveling time.  He did promise to be out there shoveling the snow with the residents.  Yes, he should have a few more months before he has to worry about that at this point, but he should be thinking about it.

And we know how extra Randall is

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, GodsBeloved said:

And we know how extra Randall is

Obviously if he's going to do his whole district, he should just get a truck with a plow on it, but I imagine he'll forget he ever said that when it starts snowing.  Although, he did change that light bulb, so you never know.

[JudyObscure]

20 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

 Attempting to force the constructs of our marriage on any other couple wouldn't fit, nor would I expect it to -- or vice versa.  I certainly don't think it's appropriate to demean how other people conduct their lives simply because we've always done it differently, or we never found the need for X or Y.  

I'm sorry if you read anything I've said about either my choice regarding cell phones, or my marriage, as demeaning to anyone else's choices.  My gosh you're in the 95% majority, surely that's enough validation for your choice?  It's precisely because my choice is rare that I thought it might be interesting.  Just "interesting," not in any way judging someone else's choice.  It's an electronic device, not a life value!

I walk with a cane.  My right hand is always occupied with that cane.  If I have a cellphone in my left hand I can't open doors or pick up groceries to put in my cart or carry the dog outside.  I know perfectly well that this situation doesn't factor in in most people's cellphone decision, which is why I haven't mentioned it, but I'll say it now to further demonstrate why your decision to have a phone is fine by me and why my decision does not reflect negatively on yours and is not meant to demean your choice in anyway. You're in the majority, everyone agrees with you.  Enjoy.

[AzraeltheCat]

Someone may have mentioned this, but Philly council members make $130,000/year. Not sure how that covers Randall and Beth's expenses...I'm sure it's less than he made at his S1 job, but I would think it might be comparable to what Beth was making before she got fired?

I don't think there's anything wrong with asking for a charger.  I have two in my den that I use for my iphone or ipad and that I regularly offer to guests.  Also, I don't have a charger in my car b/c I have one that fits  the headphone jack... lost the damn adaptor, and since iphones don't have the headphone jack, I can't charge in the car.  Bought a cheap/drugstore adaptor and phone won't recognize it. 

As far as the girls staying by themselves or doing chores, I have mixed thoughts about it.  I was babysitting other people's kids at night by 13, so my folks would not have hesitated to leave me alone for a while.  And I had a stay-at-home mom, so while I think we were expected to put up our clean, folded clothes, we did not do our own laundry really ever.  My mom showed me how a few years later when I was in high school, so that if I wanted to wear something that was dirty and it wasn't her laundry day, I could do it, but we weren't expected to do it.  We were expected to keep our rooms and bathroom clean, put laundry in hamper, make up the beds.  We set the table and helped clear the dishes, but I think mom put most of them in the dishwasher...we might have helped with that...and don't remember handwashing dishes.   Maybe it's different w/2 working parents, but also, kids seem to be so much busier now.  We came home, did homework right away [mom rule], and then had some after school activities - piano or gymnastics, or whatever, but those were once a week and only an hour.  We did not have practices/activities every day after school.  My nephews/nieces are basically booked for 3 hours after school with sports and other stuff; then they come home, eat dinner, do homework, and go to bed.  They don't really have time to be doing laundry or cooking dinner. 

[CJRocks]

I'm Team Randall on this (aside from the voicemail). Beth agreed to attend and then wanted to cancel for drinks at the last minute? Incredibly rude, not only to her husband, but to her hostess. Randall was wrong to say the things he did, but he's not wrong. She wants to put her marriage and her children aside because she wants to be a ballerina? Really? Is she six? And did he not put thought into the fact that he would be spending six hours a day on the road commuting? Why doesn't he just stay in the apartment building he owns, which conveniently seems to run itself now. And how long are her classes? He seems to come home, feed the girls, do homework, laundry, are her classes eight hours long?

Sorry, my husband and I have had some really good fights over the years, but I have never, ever told him to sleep on the couch or sleep in his office. That's disgusting. There are times when I know I need to be the good corporate wife, and there are times that he's been a good corporate husband. You take turns.

I'm beginning to dislike the Pearsons (and their SOs) less and less each episode. They're all a bunch of whiny babies. Except Miguel.

[jhummerbird]

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

To me, it's not the suddenness of the interest, it's the fact that it doesn't seem to be the time to follow it. How much money could a part-time dance teacher make? They have that big house and 3 kids, it's not cheap. 

FWIW, I feel the same about Randall continuing down this path of a job that doesn't fit into their lives in any way. Too far away, too time-consuming, and probably also doesn't pay all that well. 

Most of us have "dreams" that we'd love to chase, but doing so wouldn't allow us to support ourselves, so we do our jobs and find joy elsewhere. It's hard to root for them to drop it all to pursue their passions when they have so many responsibilities to consider. 

I would like to be on Team Beth because Randell is so insufferable, but this dance teacher storyline is so ridiculous that I just can't believe it's supposed to be a real thing actually having an impact on their marriage. As far as we know, Beth trained at a hard-core dance school from age 11ish to 18. She has not been shown to have danced a single minute after that (we'll see if they incorporate dance into her college storyline). I took violin lessons from age 9 to 22 (through college) -- I wasn't good enough to have any chance at going professional, but I was a music minor and played regularly up until about 5-6 years ago. Since I don't have a good outlet for playing anymore, I've definitely gotten rusty even with just 5-6 years off, I can tell my muscle memory is not what it used to be. I can't IMAGINE walking into a local music studio and believing I was ready to teach. How did Beth get students in her class so quickly? How did she have any impact at all on a recital that took place a WEEK after she was hired? It also doesn't make sense that Randell is so irritated by her working "nights and weekends." It seems like the Saturday classes at least should be totally fine. And actually, while it might not totally fulfill Beth's dream, and easy solution would be for her to teach classes during the daytime while the girls are in school, either to "bored housewives" or to preschoolers. 

Honestly, within the This Is Us universe I would find it more believable if Beth had suddenly decided she wanted to open her OWN dance studio. She has the experience necessary to hire qualified teachers and run a business, and it would have been more realistic that it would occupy a lot of her time. But becoming a barely qualified part-time dance teacher at someone else's studio seems like a job that should be entirely compatible with Randell and Beth's current lifestyle. 

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, GodsBeloved said:

Not to change the subject, well yes to change the subject.

Re: Kevin telling Sophie about Kate's baby. He did, it just didn't make the cut. I saw a script page on instagram and Sophie said I can't believe Kate had a baby and then the conversation turns to Sophie's fiance.

I have no idea how counsel positions work but does Randall really need to be appointed to one (or several) committees? I mean if this is about taking care of HIS district, how does being on committees help HIS district in a real, hands on way? I thought Randall would be the new politician, the one who actually cared about the people, not about having a political career. 

Those city councils (especially in a big city) have to have multiple subdivisions to cover all the business of the city.  Individual committees would be concerned with issues that are common to all of the districts, such as public safety which I think was mentioned as one of Randall's hopes to get assigned to.  Even our local school board has a bunch of committees, all members are assigned to 2 or 3, in addition to regular overall district business.  It's a big time commitment, so Randall's will be even more so.  Did you see the thickness of those reading materials he got from his assistant?  Ever-studious Randall even seemed a bit taken aback by it. 

[PepSinger]

20 minutes ago, CJRocks said:

I'm Team Randall on this (aside from the voicemail). Beth agreed to attend and then wanted to cancel for drinks at the last minute? Incredibly rude, not only to her husband, but to her hostess. Randall was wrong to say the things he did, but he's not wrong. She wants to put her marriage and her children aside because she wants to be a ballerina? Really? Is she six? 

Well, that’s condescending and inaccurate. Beth wanted to *teach* not dance. Also, there are plenty of adult women who dance; it’s their career. To dismiss it as some childish endeavor is rude, IMO.

[Katy M]

42 minutes ago, CJRocks said:

I'm Team Randall on this (aside from the voicemail). Beth agreed to attend and then wanted to cancel for drinks at the last minute? Incredibly rude, not only to her husband, but to her hostess.

You're right that it would be rude to cancel at the last minute, but then again, she didn't actually cancel.  She showed up, and she was only late because of a traffic jam, which presumably would have happened whether or not her colleagues were out having drinks without her.

44 minutes ago, CJRocks said:

She wants to put her marriage and her children aside because she wants to be a ballerina? Really? Is she six? And did he not put thought into the fact that he would be spending six hours a day on the road commuting? Why doesn't he just stay in the apartment building he owns, which conveniently seems to run itself now. And how long are her classes? He seems to come home, feed the girls, do homework, laundry, are her classes eight hours long?

It's interesting that you think Beth is wrong to put family and marriage aside, yet you want Randall to sleep in an entirely different location all week.  Unless you mean the whole fam should move to the apartment, which I don't know if that apartment is big enough for htat whole family, but I'm totally on board with them moving to Philly when school year is done.  And, it can't be a 3 hour drive, because he took Deja there after school during the winter and it was still daytime. That's a mathematical impossibility.

[GodsBeloved]

49 minutes ago, CJRocks said:

She wants to put her marriage and her children aside because she wants to be a ballerina? Really? Is she six ... And how long are her classes? He seems to come home, feed the girls, do homework, laundry, are her classes eight hours long?

I'm not sure how Beth teaching dance classes equates to her putting her children and marriage to the side. She was working before so I'm not seeing how getting another job is a problem. I think the teaching job is less hours than her previous job but someone who knows for sure will hopefully give the specifics. I do know that the classes are some nights and weekends though. 

Edited March 22, 2019 by GodsBeloved

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, GodsBeloved said:

I'm not sure how Beth teaching dance classes equates to her putting her children and marriage to the side. She was working before so I'm not seeing how getting another job is a problem. I think the teaching job is less hours than her previous job but someone who knows for sure will hopefully give the specifics. I do know that the classes are some nights and weekends though. 

And the Pearson girls won't die if someone else drives them to Girl Scouts. Kids carpool to events all the time - in fact, that would be a way to lighten that insane whiteboard. "Hey, [Tess's friend's parent(s)], Randall and I both have to work late on Thursday, can Tess bum a ride with you to [activity]?" Yes, being at major events (performances, championship games, etc.) is important but individual practices or meetings are not. Parents only attend those if there's not enough time for them to leave and come back.

Part of the problem is the show has the Pearsons in a bubble (in addition to not having the girls do chores, which I maintain is bananas but that's not unique to This Is Us) - are Randall and Beth the only people they know? Aren't there other parents? The girls are in school; even if they're not tight-tight with the other parents, surely they know them well enough to ask if the girls can get a lift to this or that activity. (I often think this when TV tries to do the working mom thing - the working mom is usually the only working mom she knows, which is completely antithetical to my own experience. Even if a character's former circle was all SAHMs, surely there would be other working mothers at her job.)

Both my parents had careers. So did all - literally all - my friends' parents. In some cases they had very demanding careers. Both my brother and I did a lot of activities. Because all the parents worked, all the parents formed a sort of village - not everyone was a friend, but you could certainly call around until you found someone on the Little League team or in the school choir who could take your kid along with theirs. As we got into our teens, we were more independent - I grew up in Philly so I would take public transportation. The bus that stopped at the corner went right to my school, so I'd take that to weekend choir practice or whatever. (I recognize that no such option exists in affluent suburban NJ where the Pearsons live but that's the kind of environment where kids get cars when they turn 16, so they'd still be less dependent on their parents to take them places.)

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

And, it can't be a 3 hour drive, because he took Deja there after school during the winter and it was still daytime. That's a mathematical impossibility.

It could take three hours to go between NYC and Philly if there's traffic. It's two hours without. And a ton of people are leaving the city and going south in evening rush hour, so frankly even without the accident Beth spoke of, I'd believe she spent three hours in traffic. (I've spent my entire life going between the two - half my family is from one, the other half is from the other, and I've lived in both.) That commute is brutal to do every day though. I used to work with a woman whose then-fiance was doing his residency in Philly, so she lived there with him and commuted to NYC. She asked to work remotely once a week, was denied, and quit immediately because the commute was killing her and it was expensive.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Empress1

[Katy M]

51 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

It could take three hours to go between NYC and Philly if there's traffic.

I was just kind of making a joke.  Because sometimes they make it seem like he can get between the two places in like 5 minutes, when of course, he can't.

[Empress1]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

I was just kind of making a joke.  Because sometimes they make it seem like he can get between the two places in like 5 minutes, when of course, he can't.

Oh! Gotcha. 🙂

[Neurochick]

12 hours ago, Infie said:

Personally, I don't think that should matter, because it implies that Randall deserves to judge the relative value of Beth's decisions.  *nosewrinkle* I feel like I just said that badly, but it's something that drives me absolutely crazy in real life - the idea that when a person wants something or makes a decision, that they then are required to justify that decision to other people, and that those other people have to agree for that decision to be considered valid.

That's not what I meant. I feel if you're in a relationship with another person it's not cool to just decide to do whatever, just because you want to.  I don't know if Randall explained why he wanted to run for office, maybe he did.  He probably did so because that decision seemed to be kind of out there from what he was doing before, same with Beth's job. 

If I have a partner who works as a bus driver and one day announces that they want to be an actor, some explanation might be nice.  

[GodsBeloved]

21 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

That's not what I meant. I feel if you're in a relationship with another person it's not cool to just decide to do whatever, just because you want to.  I don't know if Randall explained why he wanted to run for office, maybe he did.  He probably did so because that decision seemed to be kind of out there from what he was doing before, same with Beth's job. 

If I have a partner who works as a bus driver and one day announces that they want to be an actor, some explanation might be nice.  

I agree but Beth expressed her wishes as opposed to expressing a decision she had made IMO. I believe her words were "I'm ready to tell you what I want to do next". I think it was implied they discussed it and Randall agreed. 

Randall on the other hand told Chi Chi that he was going to do something about it when her daughter got mugged. He then went home and told Beth "I think I'm gonna run against him".

Randall, much more than Beth came across to me as deciding to do something then telling Beth about that decision. 

Beth wanted to teach, Randall was going to run against Councilman what's his name.

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, GodsBeloved said:

Beth wanted to teach, Randall was going to run against Councilman what's his name.

But didn't Randall want to run against that councilman?   

I guess I'm trying to ask, why is one more worthy than another?  Would Beth have wanted to teach if she hadn't spent time with her mother?   Would Randall have wanted to run against the councilman if Chi Chi's daughter hadn't been mugged?  

I think in both cases they told each other what they each wanted to do next.  

As I said before, I think the issue is that neither one of them is happy with the other's decision.   

Edited March 22, 2019 by Neurochick

[qtpye]

On 3/21/2019 at 3:18 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Oh yeah.  Randall makes a lot of annoying speeches about how great Beth is.  Why are they annoying?  Because they've always felt so over the top and fake, and now we know that they really are.  I'd be like ew, who am I even married to?  The word I'm looking for is something like sycophantic or ingratiating or obsequious (thank you dictionary.com.)

On 3/21/2019 at 3:56 PM, happykitteh said:

Agreed. The word I think of is condescending. When Randall goes into his over the top compliments he always sound like he's speaking in a condescending manner to Beth.

22 hours ago, Katy M said:

If they're not fake, they're at most just noise.  He says he'll support her dance teacher dream and then the very next day, or close to, he tells her she has to put it on hold.  Another time he gives her a big speech about how all the people that she's interviewing with will be begging her to work for them.  Then five minutes later something comes up and he tells her she has to pick up the slack with the kids that day.

22 hours ago, Tikichick said:

It's not really that they didn't want strangers raising the girls.  They only need someone for brief gaps when their schedules won't mesh.  Randall created a construct where they don't just need a responsible person on hand for the girls, they need someone who is practically perfect in every way.  That comes with a commensurate pricetag, one their current budget doesn't allow.  Effectively Randall has spun the situation in a way that effectively cockblocks Beth from pursuing the dance career because he's decided Deja and Tess' situations are too fragile to withstand an hour or two with a responsible high school or college student maybe two days after school a week.  They were set on getting someone to be there with the girls until Randall unilaterally decided their situation required something that just happened to cost more than Beth's new income level.  

Jack and Rebecca's valiant attempt to raise their kids, Randall in particular, left Randall with a big ole blindspot when he gets an idea that something "should be" done a certain way.  Rebecca's uneasiness over her initial problems bonding with infant Randall drove her in particular to take this to obsessive levels of indulgence when it came to Randall.  If Randall expressed a want or a need it became a priority.  Somehow the time, the money, the attention, whatever it was was found to make it happen.  We've seen enough flashbacks to see where Kevin was frequently shunted to the side to make sure the path for Randall was cleared.  Adult Randall has a vision problem because of it.

He was raised to be nice, to be considerate, to be kind, and he was and he is.  He was all for Beth's return to dance.  When it conflicts with whatever he feels is actually important, he cannot even see that it blots out her priorities -- and he can't see why her priorities shouldn't be ultimately subservient to more important priorities -- which just so happen to align with his priorities.   Coincidentally it's never the case where one of Randall's priorities should take a backseat -- of course not, Randall's priorities are always really important.     

Randall’s compliments to Beth remind me of Jack’s compliments to Rebecca in that they are somewhat sincere but at least slightly manipulative. Jack loves Rebecca  but it is contingent on her following along with his grand scheme of their life. As soon as Rebecca decided to want to sing again, Jack goes off the rails. Yeah, St. Jack was right and her band mate/old flame just wanted to hit on her but it does not change that that he was an incredibly controlling guy.

Randall also has the same tendencies with Beth. She is his queen until she desires something for herself. Beth has always taken a backseat to Randall’s desires and the desires of his self centered family. Randall probably does not even notice this since that is what he grew up with. I am not saying Beth is a saint. She should of never let last minute drinks with her boss interfere with a previously agreed upon dinner date, but she probably is sick of always being the one to compromise.

19 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Friday Night Lights was one. Eric and Tami Taylor loved, liked, and respected each other. They had some big fights but they always came together. Actually, their big fights were similar to Beth and Randall's - Eric's career had always come first, I don't think Tami worked, and then she started working and her career took off as he got some big opportunities too. So they were in a place of, should we do what we've always done and put you first, or should we do things differently?

I am Team It's OK to Ask Your Host for a Phone Charger. It might be a generational thing. I liken it to asking to use someone's phone to check in with the babysitter, in the days of land lines. (I don't personally know anyone who doesn't have a phone charger in their car, especially someone with kids who need to be checked on, but the show said what it said.)

That scene with one of the parents giving 13-year-old Deja her clean laundry was baffling to me. Deja and Tess are old enough to do at LEAST their own laundry, and they could do the family's laundry too. (I had a friend who, as an adult, sends out his laundry because his chore growing up was laundry for his whole family and he's sick of laundry.) My mother taught me to do my laundry when I was 10 and she has done it exactly one time since, and it's because I'd just had surgery. Randall doing dishes was like ... really? All three kids are old enough to load a dishwasher. Tess and Deja are old enough to cook or at LEAST heat up meals and get their own lunches together. All the members of that family should be helping to run the household at this point. The two older girls could even help Annie with her homework. I helped my brother with his homework. Even if Beth or Randall were a SAHP, they should teach the kids to do chores because those are life skills.

One of my best friends has never wanted kids. I've known her since high school and she was clear then. She's never faltered. She's married; they don't have kids. (People kept asking her "What if you meet a man who wants kids? What will you do?" And she'd be like " ... Not marry him, because we'd be fundamentally incompatible.") She had a pretty idyllic childhood and while she works, her career is pretty family-friendly. She just doesn't want kids, so she doesn't have any. It's that simple. She has a full, good life - it's the life she wants. It's a pet peeve of mine when people assume women who don't want kids (because men who don't want kids rarely get this shit) are damaged somehow (although I will say, I think given what Kevin knows about Zoe's past, I think that was a fair question). I liked when Zoe was like "Nope, just don't."

Nice to see Eddie Kaye Thomas as the other father in the NICU. I can't remember the last thing I saw him in - it really might have been the American Pie franchise.

I remember Rebecca never wanted kids and got three that she almost had to raise herself.  Sure Jack got to be the hero and swoop in for the big gestures but she handled the day to day drudgery. Kevin resented her for favoring Randall, Kate has hated her until pretty recently for being slim and attractive, and Randall thinks her offering free child care for his kids is “an early Christmas present “.

Her children have felt this way about their whole lives and it is just starting to change now that they are all knocking on forty. Sometimes I think she would have been happier child free.

[GodsBeloved]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

But didn't Randall want to run against that councilman?   

I guess I'm trying to ask, why is one more worthy than another?  Would Beth have wanted to teach if she hadn't spent time with her mother?   Would Randall have wanted to run against the councilman if Chi Chi's daughter hadn't been mugged?  

I think in both cases they told each other what they each wanted to do next.  

As I said before, I think the issue is that neither one of them is happy with the other's decision.   

Yes Randall wanted to run. I just think he had made the decision he was going to run prior to talking to Beth. I am not convinced that Beth made the decision she was going to teach prior to talking to Randall.

I don’t think one is more worthy. I did think Beth was at least half way ok with his decision in the very beginning and Randall was fully ok with hers.