S08.E11: My Little Secret

[Gem 10]

OMG, tonight’s episode was a disaster.  First of all, the house production sent the couples was a dump.  You would think they would put them up in a nicely furnished cabin in the woods that had some charm, a fireplace and enough private rooms for four couples?  Shameful.

I changed my mind about A.J.  Not only is he a loud mouth, but he is an obnoxious loudmouth DRUNK.  Stephanie doesn’t have a prayer.  I don’t like Luke, but the way A.J. Smacked him on the ass with a wise ass crack was unforgivable.  The guy is a drunken maniac.  I’m shocked the rest at the table didn’t go to their rooms and leave him there with his bottle of booze.  If I was one of the couples, I would have left and gone to a hotel.  The beast in A.J. Came out.

Luke has to be gay.  They are having sex and then he goes out of the room?  He is trying to find himself.  What else can it be?  I have no respect for Kate.  After a Luke said what he said to her in the beginning, now he made a drastic turn around and wants to stay married.  Is Kate daft?

Jasmine and Will .. he doesn’t want her, period.  She’s making a fool of herself.  Stop trying.  There’s nothing there.

I don’t know about Kristene and Keith.  Five to seven years  of medical school might be too long for her.  They are a toss up.

I don’t know how these three experts interview.  Do they not question these couples about their habits and dreams of marriage?  Guess not.  Out of all the applicants, they picked this bunch?  They are useless.

[Gem 10]

4 hours ago, Soup333 said:

Kate said he acts weird after sex and she doesn’t like it so she talks to him to make sure he really wants to do it and then he acts weird again. So why...?????

She has the mentality of a doorknob.

[Yeah No]

I've been in that champagne glass tub they showed Kristine and Keith in in the coming attractions.  It was at one of the Caesar's Pocono couples resorts.  That was a couple of decades ago and I can't believe it still looks exactly the same!  But it proves that they get to leave that awful communal house rental the show put them in just to screw around with them (and us).  Thank goodness, I couldn't take thinking they'd be stuck in that situation the entire time.

Kristine's attitude on "Unfiltered" made me wonder WTF she is doing with him.  She would never have picked him.....He doesn't make enough money....He's lazy, he's this, he's that.  Even Jamie O. asked her what makes her want to be with him and I found her answer to be wishy-washy.  I do think she is over him and is just considering him her next relationship but is not upset that it may not work out.  She's like "Oh well", like she'll just go back to the drawing board.  Is it really that easy for her or does she just want to act like it's no biggie?

AJ has serious issues.  If any guy I was ever with acted like that I'd be seriously reconsidering him for any long term relationship.  I can't take being mortified in public like that.  When Stephanie went inside to sleep I didn't believe it was because she was tired but because she didn't want to witness his mortifying behavior.  She keeps making lemons out of lemonade with him but eventually she's going to have to wake up and realize it's not acceptable to her.  He is way too volatile about just about everything.  From the angry driving, to the anger and frustration directed at production to who knows what else, it's maddening!  Someone get the guy a ritalin or valium or whatever they've replaced that with these days!

Jasmine may be a lot of things, but Will is so bo-ring and in his head I just can't with him anymore.  I realize that part of it is he's not into her, but some of it is just him.  Again, I think he is an idealist and she's a realist.  He is an idealist stuck in a financial career, hence why he wants to do something good for the world.  I understand and admire that, but he's still a big bore.  He wants her to bring him mental stimulation, meanwhile he's just a big snooze.

Kate is a masochist.  It's gone beyond her just being into a guy.  She would be a battered woman if she were involved with that kind of guy.  Puke's a loathsome douche that's taking advantage of her.  That's why he didn't want the experts to know he was having sex with her.  He knows he's doing something wrong.  Again with the experts failing her.  Pepper's reaction was so weak.  Come ON already!

Edited March 13, 2019 by Yeah No

[Gem 10]

3 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

BUSHKILL FALLS!!! We have a vacation home in the Poconos and have been at the Falls a few times.

I had my honeymoon at Cove Haven.  Many moons ago.

[Yeah No]

3 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

I had my honeymoon at Cove Haven.  Many moons ago.

I had my honeymoon at Mt. Airy Lodge, which is a different resort now.  I've been to Cove Haven and Pocono Gardens on "mini moons" too - also many moons ago.  Did the champagne glass tub thing too, lol.

[Gem 10]

29 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I know, you and I both thought the secret was that they had sex and were right!  I could tell by the vulnerable way Kate was acting about him.  I have also been going on about Luke possibly being gay, and you have to admit that the weirdness and withdrawal after sex really seems to suggest that.  He seems like a guy that really wants to be straight for some strange unknown reason and is forcing himself to do it with her, then distancing himself like it really repulsed him or made him feel even more conflicted.  I know it seems strange in this day and age that any gay man would still want to be straight, but I've learned that some pretty strange things go on in some people's minds.  The only other thing I can figure is that he is conflicted over someone else.  Like there's a specific person (male or female) that's still inside his head from a previous relationship, until he gets over them he can't open up to any woman.  But right now that possibility seems like a distant second to the gay thing.

Maybe Puke is afraid what Mommy would say.  Or, does Mommy know?  Every Mother knows their child.

[Yeah No]

3 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Maybe Puke is afraid what Mommy would say.  Or, does Mommy know?  Every Mother knows their child.

Yeah, he could have "mommy issues" that make him conflicted about having sex but he didn't really strike me as coming from that place.  Who knows? it could be true.  I'd believe anything at this point.

[STRIDER1]

Earth to jasmine . . .

The only switch that will is gonna flip is the bedroom light switch, to the OFF position.

So that he can get some sleep lol 😂😄

Edited March 13, 2019 by STRIDER1
typo

[athousandclowns]

4 hours ago, Waterlilly said:

OMG!  I haven’t watched since the weddings. My hubby is in the hospital and I wanted something to take my mind off of it, but I don’t know if I can handle this. AJ just wow!

Sorry about your hubby. These forums were my sanity. I didn’t watch but read the forum religiously. 

My first husband would start a fight after sex and I think although I was so very young thought he had trouble getting close/intimacy. 

The repulsive/dead inside kiss came after the honeymoon. If your gay don’t go on reality show where you are matched with a women.  Why would he not want experts to know they are having sex wouldn’t that then appear he was trying?   Being married having sex then no show of affection or needing to be in another room is really deep. She didn’t reveal if he told her not why not to tell?   

[silverspoons]

1 hour ago, Gem 10 said:

I had my honeymoon at Cove Haven.  Many moons ago.

I went to Caesar's Brookdale in the Pocono's and I stayed in a condo, not one of the hot tub rooms (the place was sold and abandon  a few years ago, so sad to watch the you tube videos of the current state). The show would have been much better off if they wanted all of them to be together on the vacation to send them to one of these resort places over the cheap Airbnb they chose. Those resorts might look tacky, but they have so much to do for free, ice skating, mini golf, boating, arcades, swimming, so much they could have done together or by themselves. That airbnb was so small for 8 people, is the budget that low?

After tonight I am not sure any of the coupes will make it long term. The edit has been weirder then ever this season.

Will is 37 and appears to be great on paper so why is he not married? I assume he could have easily met a cute women to marry in the last 10 years but he is telling Jasmine it is not about looks, he wants a connection and someone with the same goals and dreams. I think Will knows looks will fade in 20 or 30 years but when you are older you want someone with the same goals in life. Will is looking long term. I see Jasmine as wanted to retire to the beach In Naples and will wanting to be in the peace corps. 

Luke leaving after sex and acting weird. Is he just using her because he is needy and she is there? or is he gay? Would he really do the show if he was struggling with being gay? it is weird because it is not Nick and Sonia because they had sex once , Kate said 4-5 times. Once I could understand, you try and you just do not feel it, but 4-5 times??

Edited March 13, 2019 by silverspoons

[STRIDER1]

6 hours ago, CSunshine76 said:

SETA: I am not with AJ on his drunk obnoxious behavior.  It’s not cute.

I think that aj possibly suffered short term memory loss or some sort of brain damage from his bike accident. Or maybe he was dropped a lot as a kid. who knows.

On the group dinner with pastor cal, they were informed that all 4 of the couples will be staying together in the same place. Aj then blurts out, " but in separate rooms right? "

So what does that spaz then say, the moment that he walks thru the door? " What are you doing in our house? "

Wow seriously? is his memory that bad to not remember what pastor cal told everybody? he's acting like he had absolutely no idea that he would be seeing any of the other 3 couples there and that it was only gonna be him and stephanie alone there. He then proceeds to stare everyone down while hes steaming and fuming in the doorway.

What a mental case !!! seriously !!!

And thats even BEFORE he started to drink. He went from bad to worst.

Run stephanie run !!! This marriage aint gonna last long.

Either he will snap first or she will from all his craziness.

Edited March 13, 2019 by STRIDER1
typo

[Brooklynista]

You have to be careful about people who lie when there's no reason. All the guys are talking about Decision Day and Luke says "Nope, not us. We haven't talked about it at all".  Why lie?? Because Kate said she was gonna dump his ass? Big whoop!  He wants Kate to lie about his crying in the closet after sex. Lie, lie, lie.

Luke is overly concerned with how he's coming across and this was not the reality show for him. He's an asshole that doesn't want people to know he's an asshole and he's failing at keeping the secret. Why is he on tv??

[Ms.C.]

2 hours ago, STRIDER1 said:

I think that aj possibly suffered short term memory loss or some sort of brain damage from his bike accident. Or maybe he was dropped a lot as a kid. who knows.

On the group dinner with pastor cal, they were informed that all 4 of the couples will be staying together in the same place. Aj then blurts out, " but in separate rooms right? "

So what does that spaz then say, the moment that he walks thru the door? " What are you doing in our house? "

Wow seriously? is his memory that bad to not remember what pastor cal told everybody? he's acting like he had absolutely no idea that he would be seeing any of the other 3 couples there and that it was only gonna be him and stephanie alone there. He then proceeds to stare everyone down while hes steaming and fuming in the doorway.

What a mental case !!! seriously !!!

And thats even BEFORE he started to drink. He went from bad to worst.

Run stephanie run !!! This marriage aint gonna last long.

Either he will snap first or she will from all his craziness.

As a teacher I’ve seen many children who have ADHD. Reactive, difficult adjusting to change,  moody, negative.  He should consider meds.  Not for everybody but definitely for some.   I doubt he’ll find a permanent satisfactory relationship until he does a lot of work or tries meds.  Seemed ok after day one.  He just couldn’t adapt quickly enough.  Got irritable. 

[aphroditewitch]

5 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I know, you and I both thought the secret was that they had sex and were right!  I could tell by the vulnerable way Kate was acting about him.  I have also been going on about Luke possibly being gay, and you have to admit that the weirdness and withdrawal after sex really seems to suggest that.  He seems like a guy that really wants to be straight for some strange unknown reason and is forcing himself to do it with her, then distancing himself like it really repulsed him or made him feel even more conflicted.  I know it seems strange in this day and age that any gay man would still want to be straight, but I've learned that some pretty strange things go on in some people's minds.  The only other thing I can figure is that he is conflicted over someone else.  Like there's a specific person (male or female) that's still inside his head from a previous relationship, until he gets over them he can't open up to any woman.  But right now that possibility seems like a distant second to the gay thing.

Maybe but I think the dramatics after sex are an act. Luke is incapable of acting in a genuine way towards anyone and it shows in how he interacts with people. 

[becauseIsaidso]

This episode confirmed for me an idea I've had forming about AJ - mainly that he's totally different off camera. If his friends have never seen him mad and Stephanie has seen it almost from the get-go it seems logical to me that there must be a new variable involved, which is of course, the reality of going through this with a camera present and multiple retakes, etc. I also think that's why Stephanie seems to not speak up for herself - I think she's relying on her feelings about how he behaves in private/normal life and decided to carefully pick her battles on camera, knowing that jumping in with some attempt at getting him to turn it off will just make it worse. I think AJ is feeling harshly judged (albeit it due to his own behavior) and is intent of letting 'us' know that it's the intrusion and demands/equipment of production that send him 'round the bend. I also believe that when they were told they'd all be in one house and AJ verified with Pastor Cal that they'd each have their own rooms, he envisioned it more like a B&B with private bathrooms and equal accommodations - so that being the last to arrive and getting the leftovers hit him in the face as a very nasty, (and, in his mind I am certain, deliberately-production generated) surprise which naturally released the beast within.

I did not have a good first impression of AJ, but he has grown on me. At times he seems to exude a child-like desperation that we, the audience, know it is all these external factors that are pushing his buttons and making him present like an hot tempered idiot. I am also certain (from my background in dealing with TBI patients in a neuropsychological testing milieu) that a lot of his hair-trigger responses and tendency to disinhibited behaviors could well have been either the result of or enhanced by his injury. I do see some genuine affection between them - I think that if Stephanie did not feel it, we would have seen and heard a lot more critical THs and distancing behavior instead of her efforts to avoid getting embroiled in each new conflict. When she decided to go to bed, my first thought was 'smart girl'. I think they need a solid month of  real privacy to really get to know each other, so I do hope they stay together at least long enough to let all the effects of this zoo fade away. 

[Soup333]

6 hours ago, Racj82 said:

At this point, I just can't deal with Kate, not Luke. How do you stay with or have sex with a dude that treats you like this? At a certain point, you are your own worst enemy. We all have flaws but she had no business signing up for this show. She needs to work on herself.

Fuck Luke all to hell for treating Kate like some cum deposit.

This is why I asked how it happened. I mean literally - how did this go down? Can’t fault Kate for the honeymoon because she would have had fresh hope for her marriage and she didn’t know Luke that well. But after sex (assuming since the honeymoon meant on the honeymoon) when he says he feels repulsed dead inside and runs off to hide in the bathroom for TWO HOURS, how do you not process that a deep, DEEP rejection? Or at least that something is not right with your husband in regards to sex. And I’m not at all sure Kate could view that objectively and not personally. 

So the second, third, fourth, etc. times HOW did they get there? What the hell did Luke say to talk her into laying up with him again with him running off to hide after each time? How was Luke able to maintain an erection long enough to have a discussion where he convinced her it was cool before they did it? She said he initiated things but why did she fall for that repeatedly? I’m just soooo confused. I’m convinced it had to be the most awkward sex ever, drugs and/or alcohol had to have been involved and I know for a fact Luke got his jollies off (if that) and ran off without regard for her pleasure.

The real question is who hurt Kate so badly in the past that she accepted this foolishness. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Soup333

[configdotsys]

Taking notes as I watch this morning…

OMG Kate, you are a lost cause. Luke is a sicko, wacko who gets weird after sex and shuts down on her so what does she do? She continues to have sex with him. I just can’t with her. She’s inviting drama and heartache into her life and then wondering why there’s drama and heartache in her life. They’re “trending upward”? I just… no.

LOL Will thinking Jasmine wants something like a new car for making him dinner. Love it! Jasmine, Will seems completely disinterested in flipping your switch. She’s surprised that Will has struggled? Everyone has struggles. The look on Will’s face before the kissing exercise was priceless. 

Here comes pissy AJ. This is what you signed up for, Stephanie. Have fun! She’d rather use the “I’m tired” than tell him he’s acting like an ass. Don’t worry, Jasmine, Stephanie has seen AJ like that plenty of times before and yes, he would have acted that way had she stayed around and she would have been expected to suck it up.

This was a pretty boring episode. Some of the scenes were stretched out entirely too long.

I thought the pottery lady was disgusting. I would not find her approach amusing and would have walked out of there. 

[Straycat80]

This episode was hard to watch. I think the real AJ came out. I wonder if he drinks more and acts more obnoxious when the camera’s are gone. Stephanie seems smart, will she stick around.

watching Will and Jasmine kiss was all kinds of awkward, you could almost see him side eyeing the timer on the phone waiting for the one minute to be up. You don’t flip his switch Jasmine, give it up. 

Kate and Luke having sex since the beginning was not what I expected. This explains why she has been clinging onto him and so emotional. She sounded so defeated talking about how he treats her after sex, I wish she would woman up and just walk away. 

[Soup333]

14 minutes ago, configdotsys said:

I thought the pottery lady was disgusting. I would not find her approach amusing and would have walked out of there. 

This. She was gross. BUT she was a perfect match to AJ’s immature humor. He loved it.

ETA - in regards to AJ asking if the other couples are bothered by his And Stephanie’s success...what an ass. He’s probably been bragging about how the other couples have nothing on them since the honeymoon. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Soup333

[bichonblitz]

17 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Wow, calling Jasmine a beast is all sorts of harsh.  It makes me feel some type of way when a brown skinned black woman is referred to as a "beast." 

Referring to any woman as a "beast" is harsh. It has nothing to do with skin color. 

[qtpye]

59 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

This is why I asked how it happened. I mean literally - how did this go down? Can’t fault Kate for the honeymoon because she would have had fresh hope for her marriage and she didn’t know Luke that well. But after sex (assuming since the honeymoon meant on the honeymoon) when he says he feels repulsed dead inside and runs off to hide in the bathroom for TWO HOURS, how do you not process that a deep, DEEP rejection? Or at least that something is not right with your husband in regards to sex. And I’m not at all sure Kate could view that objectively and not personally. 

So the second, third, fourth, etc. times HOW did they get there? What the hell did Luke say to talk her into laying up with him again with him running off to hide after each time? How was Luke able to maintain an erection long enough to have a discussion where he convinced her it was cool before they did it? She said he initiated things but why did she fall for that repeatedly? I’m just soooo confused. I’m convinced it had to be the most awkward sex ever, drugs and/or alcohol had to have been involved and I know for a fact Luke got his jollies off (if that) and ran off without regard for her pleasure.

The real question is who hurt Kate so badly in the past that she accepted this foolishness. 

Kate is crazy about Luke, very attracted to him physically, and in her own words, considers being on this show her last chance at love. I know a woman who is obsessed with a guy that I am convinced is probably some extremely charismatic and charming psychopath. The guy would throw her crumbs of affection and then sometimes use her for a booty call and she thought that meant he had a special bond with her and there was hope for a relationship. I think Kate has finally wisened up and that is why she told the experts. I think a tiny part of her actually wants them to make Luke like her or reassure her that he will like her since they were the ones that matched them up.

4 hours ago, STRIDER1 said:

I think that aj possibly suffered short term memory loss or some sort of brain damage from his bike accident. Or maybe he was dropped a lot as a kid. who knows.

On the group dinner with pastor cal, they were informed that all 4 of the couples will be staying together in the same place. Aj then blurts out, " but in separate rooms right? "

So what does that spaz then say, the moment that he walks thru the door? " What are you doing in our house? "

Wow seriously? is his memory that bad to not remember what pastor cal told everybody? he's acting like he had absolutely no idea that he would be seeing any of the other 3 couples there and that it was only gonna be him and stephanie alone there. He then proceeds to stare everyone down while hes steaming and fuming in the doorway.

What a mental case !!! seriously !!!

And thats even BEFORE he started to drink. He went from bad to worst.

Run stephanie run !!! This marriage aint gonna last long.

Either he will snap first or she will from all his craziness.

Even before the craziness with the crappy accommodations, I was embarrassed about how he was acting at Fogo de Chao at the dinner. When he made that horrible joke about love, Stephanie looked mortified and I was mortified for her. That was the first time I have ever seen Pastor Cal look like he wanted to slap the foolishness right out of a show participant.

[Zero260]

1 hour ago, becauseIsaidso said:

This episode confirmed for me an idea I've had forming about AJ - mainly that he's totally different off camera. If his friends have never seen him mad and Stephanie has seen it almost from the get-go it seems logical to me that there must be a new variable involved, which is of course, the reality of going through this with a camera present and multiple retakes, etc. I also think that's why Stephanie seems to not speak up for herself - I think she's relying on her feelings about how he behaves in private/normal life and decided to carefully pick her battles on camera, knowing that jumping in with some attempt at getting him to turn it off will just make it worse. I think AJ is feeling harshly judged (albeit it due to his own behavior) and is intent of letting 'us' know that it's the intrusion and demands/equipment of production that send him 'round the bend. I also believe that when they were told they'd all be in one house and AJ verified with Pastor Cal that they'd each have their own rooms, he envisioned it more like a B&B with private bathrooms and equal accommodations - so that being the last to arrive and getting the leftovers hit him in the face as a very nasty, (and, in his mind I am certain, deliberately-production generated) surprise which naturally released the beast within.

I did not have a good first impression of AJ, but he has grown on me. At times he seems to exude a child-like desperation that we, the audience, know it is all these external factors that are pushing his buttons and making him present like an hot tempered idiot. I am also certain (from my background in dealing with TBI patients in a neuropsychological testing milieu) that a lot of his hair-trigger responses and tendency to disinhibited behaviors could well have been either the result of or enhanced by his injury. I do see some genuine affection between them - I think that if Stephanie did not feel it, we would have seen and heard a lot more critical THs and distancing behavior instead of her efforts to avoid getting embroiled in each new conflict. When she decided to go to bed, my first thought was 'smart girl'. I think they need a solid month of  real privacy to really get to know each other, so I do hope they stay together at least long enough to let all the effects of this zoo fade away. 

I am in total agreement with this assessment. Spot on! It was very uncomfortable to watch AJ’s behavior at the kitchen table because he has grown on me as well. I felt like I wanted to look away. VERY smart of Stephanie to walk away when things went south. There’s a connection between these two that goes beyond what we see on camera, and I think she will give it time to assess things and make a decision once the attention is off them. And I also agree that AJ might be helped by some pharmaceutical intervention if it comes to that. 

[bichonblitz]

Drunken AJ asking Luke if he was a top or a bottom. Whoa.......I could not believe what I was hearing. 

[Madding crowd]

Luke is the typical asshole who thinks Kate is good enough for the occasional booty call but doesn’t want her to think he actually cares about her. I don’t know any gay men who seek a woman to marry or who want to have secret sex with one. Kate needs to woman up and tell him they need counseling.

AJ acts insane and I could never be matched with someone like that. I don’t believe it is only for the cameras and will go away when they are gone. Will and Jasmine are done for although I have to say at least Jasmine is making a little effort. Don’t see Keith and Kristine making it long term although the are a fun, cute couple who are making the best of the situation.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

I would have understood him wanting to keep their sex life private.

I can see keeping details private, but Luke knows that his behavior after sex isn't normal and he wants to keep Kate from a) exposing that and b) getting help for it. It's just another way of him controlling her. And you just know he's going to gaslight her (again) by trying to make the issue about her "betraying his trust" and not about the core issue, which is the way he treats her.

Quote

 I don’t know any gay men who seek a woman to marry or who want to have secret sex with one. Kate needs to woman up and tell him they need counseling.

I was that woman (to marry; not for sex at the time) but it was the 80's/90's and coming out was a different thing then than it is now.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Elizzikra

[Brooklynista]

15 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Drunken AJ asking Luke if he was a top or a bottom. Whoa.......I could not believe what I was hearing. 

As un-PC as it was, I can't lie and say I didn't perk my ears up to hear  the answer.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Brooklynista

[discoprincessthe2]

8 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Unfiltered: JamieO, Kristine, Stephanie, Will

Jas is not picking up what I’m putting down...Will laments that Jas is always about the Benjamins in their discussion about his career change into coaching...she could have tried to understand coaching is his trying to make a difference in kids’ lives....

AJ’s poor treatment od Steph during is temper tantrums did make Steph cry and when Blondie left.

Kristine would not have dated or being in a relationship with Keith because of his laziness, his poor financials, his hairiness, his lack of a fit body, his wanting her to do all the cooking and cleaning....

Don't forget the blatant flatulence. 😉

53 minutes ago, configdotsys said:

I thought the pottery lady was disgusting. I would not find her approach amusing and would have walked out of there. 

42 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

This. She was gross. BUT she was a perfect match to AJ’s immature humor. He loved it.

THIS. I wonder whether production chose this pottery woman on purpose. 

Quote

ETA - in regards to AJ asking if the other couples are bothered by his And Stephanie’s success...what an ass. He’s probably been bragging about how the other couples have nothing on them since the honeymoon. 

I caught that too. I was half-expecting Luke and Kate's "secret" to come out, and for all bedlam to break out and for AJ to go after Luke even more. The way this season has been going, I wouldn't put that type of manipulation past production.

40 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Even before the craziness with the crappy accommodations, I was embarrassed about how he was acting at Fogo de Chao at the dinner. When he made that horrible joke about love, Stephanie looked mortified and I was mortified for her. That was the first time I have ever seen Pastor Cal look like he wanted to slap the foolishness right out of a show participant.

I caught that.

I believe there was a time or two when Pastor Cal was (almost) just as frustrated with Ryan from Boston.

[humbleopinion]

 Apparently you can't take AJ anywhere nice, Steph...he's an embarrassment.

AJ acts up because he is insecure and has to control the energy of any group that aren't made up of his long time friends...

AJ drinks to get plastered to give him license to say all kinds of stupid things aloud. red flag...

Did appreciate seeing Puke being called out (of the closet).

Wished AJ had gone further and asked about Puke repulsed and dead inside comment and why he skipped out on Kate for their anniversary.

Betcha AJ did more lashing out at the camera crew when the red light was turned off.

[CousinOliver]

I wonder if AJ was thinking different rooms mean different hotel room?  Production pulling this house sharing was total bull, but he was told ahead of time, so the initial reaction didn’t make sense.

I’m assuming that all of the obnoxious things AJ did throughout a whole night were edited together to create that one scene.  I was embarrassed for Stephanie, nonetheless.  

That said, I don’t mind anyone making Luke unhappy and seeing him seethe.  Luke deserves some karma.  

[Soup333]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

Even before the craziness with the crappy accommodations, I was embarrassed about how he was acting at Fogo de Chao at the dinner. When he made that horrible joke about love, Stephanie looked mortified and I was mortified for her. That was the first time I have ever seen Pastor Cal look like he wanted to slap the foolishness right out of a show participant.

What joke? I must have missed it. 

[Madding crowd]

I was really irritated at Dr Pepper telling Kate she has to apologize to Luke for telling the secret. Kate is under no obligation to keep her own life a secret. Luke just doesn’t want his hipster friends knowing he has sex with Kate. When I was was younger I had more than one friend who was getting midnight booty calls from men who wouldn’t even talk to them in the light of day.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Madding crowd

[shouldbedancing]

I think Luke has some deep seated mental problems. Possibly being gay is only scratching the surface. He really scares me. I really don't understand how they didn't screen him out. His "United Nations" posse of past girlfriends was just a cover up. Maybe that's why he wasn't so specific about type. If you date girls from all sorts of groups and social circles, your poor behavior doesn't get back to their friends and friends of friends and so on. You keep it more silo'd. I just think he's a psycho in the making.

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, configdotsys said:

I thought the pottery lady was disgusting. I would not find her approach amusing and would have walked out of there.

I would have walked out too.

[Neurochick]

I watched this in bits and pieces.  When Kate said she's been having sex with Luke since the honeymoon, it nearly made me puke (get it? LOL)

How can she have sex with this guy if he treats her like shit?  BUT, I think Dr. Pepper needed to step in STAT because.... either Luke is gay, which is fine OR he's a psychopath, which isn't fine.  I mean, what guy leaves the room and feels disgusted after sex?  I've heard of guys leaving because they've gotten what they want, but if Luke is disgusted that's a HUGE red flag; something is up with Luke and I think Kate should have brought it up earlier.  But when did Luke say he was disgusted by Kate, after a kiss or after sex?  I don't get Kate for staying.

But....

I sense that Kate is very much like Stephanie, wanting marriage and children so much that they don't care WHO the husband is, as long as they have a husband.

Tonight was the first time I got Will.  The way to his libido is through his brain.  Will would like to talk to a woman who'd ask him things like, "when did you know that you wanted to help others?"  "Did you have someone who mentored you?"  "We had programs when I was growing up to keep kids off the streets in the summer," etc.  Jasmine thinks all she has to do is walk around in a sexy nightgown, doesn't do it for Will, honey.  

I'm over AJ.  There's a therapist on YouTube who reviews the episodes and she said something interesting about AJ and Stephanie, there's a chance that maybe Stephanie is afraid of AJ, I mean she doesn't know him all that well; she has no idea if he would and could become violent if things don't go his way.  

I might watch the rest of the show tonight, save the Real Housewives for the weekend.

[bichonblitz]

I don't see why pompous, full of himself AJ thinks he has the most successful relationship. He's a jerk and Stephanie keeps her mouth shut to keep the peace and puts up with his moods and outbursts. That's not success, AJ. She didn't want to deal with his behavior so she goes to bed with a headache to get away from him. She knew he was drinking and becoming obnoxious so she removes herself from the situation, becoming isolated from the rest of the group instead of pulling him aside and telling him he is embarrassing her and to STFU! In a way, she doesn't have much more of a backbone than Kate. I can only imagine what the trip driving up to the accommodations was like for her listening to him bitching and moaning.  Nobody should have to put up with that. 

[humbleopinion]

One possible reason Puke wanted his sexy time with Kate be kept a secret is he has his hipster crowd to maintain his status of hip hipster...

 Puke promised to his followers that he was on the show to elevate his brand, pay off his Audi loan.

Nothing more.

  Puke's being with the stranger lady for 8 weeks was just a means to a higher profile...he wanted to being a villain to get lots of camera time.

Kissing was too intimate (he really was repulsed and killed his insides)...it was just easier to shut Kate up with over talking about marital sex and do her....5-6 times.

He had pity and apology sex with Kate on the honeymoon...Kate was confused and so hurt when Puke continued to degrade her to the crew behind her back...

 Kate was so deliriously happy that at Week 6 they held hands, and finally had a good week with him...the ballet!

Puke doesn't do anything nice without his getting his way....

Puke's was using the ballet date in the last week before D Day to  butter her up to say and do what he wants her to say at Decision Day.

He lied to the grooms about not talking about them D Day...Kate tells him again again she didn't go on MAFS to get a divorce....

He split hairs(pun intended) because Kate told him she won't divorce him..so that is the back door (pun intended) way of talking about D Day...

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Even before the craziness with the crappy accommodations, I was embarrassed about how he was acting at Fogo de Chao at the dinner. When he made that horrible joke about love, Stephanie looked mortified and I was mortified for her. That was the first time I have ever seen Pastor Cal look like he wanted to slap the foolishness right out of a show participant.

The thing about "we say K, you know, K comes before L?" I barely heard him mumble that...

Quote

I was really irritated at Dr Pepper telling Kate she has to apologize to Luke for telling the secret. Kate is under no obligation to keep her own life a secret. 

That irritated me too. There is all sorts of bad behavior that Luke could ask Kate to keep secret that she absolutely should reveal. Luke is an ass.

Quote

I've heard of guys leaving because they've gotten what they want, but if Luke is disgusted that's a HUGE red flag; something is up with Luke and I think Kate should have brought it up earlier.

Here's another theory- Luke is perfectly fine after sex; he just pulls the "I have to be alone for two hours" shit just to mess with Kate and further damage her self esteem. He's like a horrible child pulling the wings off an insect.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Elizzikra

[Neurochick]

3 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

I don't see why pompous, full of himself AJ thinks he has the most successful relationship. He's a jerk and Stephanie keeps her mouth shut to keep the peace and puts up with his moods and outbursts. That's not success, AJ. She didn't want to deal with his behavior so she goes to bed with a headache to get away from him. She knew he was drinking and becoming obnoxious so she removes herself from the situation, becoming isolated from the rest of the group instead of pulling him aside and telling him he is embarrassing her and to STFU! In a way, she doesn't have much more of a backbone than Kate. I can only imagine what the trip driving up to the accommodations was like for her listening to him bitching and moaning.  Nobody should have to put up with that. 

I'm starting to think Stephanie might be afraid of AJ.  Just my two cents.

[CousinOliver]

So, did Luke say he was repulsed and dead inside after a kiss or after they first had sex?  It makes more sense if he said it after sex, although I can’t fathom why Kate would go back for more.  

[Neurochick]

23 minutes ago, CousinOliver said:

So, did Luke say he was repulsed and dead inside after a kiss or after they first had sex?  It makes more sense if he said it after sex, although I can’t fathom why Kate would go back for more.  

That's what I didn't get.  Why would a woman keep having sex with a man who says he's repulsed by her (according to Kate, Luke said that to HER).  Like I said, I think both she and Stephanie want marriage and a family so much that they don't care who they are paired off with, as long as they have a HUSBAND.

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, Zero260 said:

I am in total agreement with this assessment. Spot on! It was very uncomfortable to watch AJ’s behavior at the kitchen table because he has grown on me as well. I felt like I wanted to look away. VERY smart of Stephanie to walk away when things went south. There’s a connection between these two that goes beyond what we see on camera, and I think she will give it time to assess things and make a decision once the attention is off them. And I also agree that AJ might be helped by some pharmaceutical intervention if it comes to that. 

I've known a few AJ's, and while they may be wonderful people in many ways, they have a fatal flaw that just about ruins it in the end for most people in a long term relationship.  If a partner could ride their roller coaster of emotions, they'd deserve an award for patience and sacrifice.  Stephanie's expressions tell me her seeming acquiescence and tolerance of AJ's behavior is on the surface only.  Underneath she's holding a lot inside, and that's not good.  She's not freaking Mother Theresa - That stuff's going to get real old after a while and the arguments will ensue and get rather ugly.  I don't buy AJ's claim that he is only like this because of the cameras.  Behavior like his doesn't confine itself to just one stressful situation but most often extends to every other area of life as well.  It amazes me how much insight he can have into the other couples' relationships but reacts so quickly and strongly to any suggestion by the experts that he has an issue with controlling his emotions.  Bullshit.

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I'm starting to think Stephanie might be afraid of AJ.  Just my two cents.

I think you may be right.  It's almost like I can see the little "help me" sign in her eyes when he goes on a tear.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Yeah No
spelling, ugh.

[2727]

Not sure which sex I find more uncomfortable to think about: Luke using Kate as a Real Doll, or whatever obnoxious, short-lasting, ADD thing A.J. does to Stephanie.

Edited March 14, 2019 by 2727

[Retired at last]

Now, THIS was the AJ I thought we would be getting since the wedding. It seems that Steph is pretty smart and when he says stupid things like he wanted to be married so he doesn't have to ever eat dinner alone again, or to fix his cufflinks, or to have someone at home when he comes home drunk and horny, I hope she is disgusted. Again, he thinks that type of comment is funny - it is not. Although she did leave the party early, I am sure she heard everything or was filled in by the other couples and the crew. She needs to get OUT. He will be devastated, but she can't let that stop her. Otherwise, she is in for a lifetime of walking on egg shells and being embarrassed by her spouse. Regardless if his behavior was caused by a hit to the head, he is not dealing with it or avoiding situations that may exacerbate the condition and continues to steamroll over her. Stephanie, there are other men who will walk and hold hands with you!!!

Kate and Puke. . . I don't think I have ever seen such a display of low self-esteem and desperation as we have seen in Kate this year. Puke continues to lie, abuse and insult her, and is a despicable excuse for a human being. And they will stay together until the reunion, when Puke will say he just doesn't want to continue to hurt Kate and he can't give her what she wants so he will call it off.

I know that Jasmine thinks very highly of herself, but she doesn't seem to have an ounce of warmth in her body. She was acting like she had a checklist and if she asked him some questions and then asked the next one, without having any conversation, that is getting to a deeper level? She may be intelligent, but it is sure not emotional intelligence and she is not going to have any physical intimacy with her "husband." They will not continue (unless it is until the 90 day thing, but not live together).

I think Kristine totally drives this relationship because Keith just seems so surprised that she has an adult plan and that does not involve children, puppies, or unicorns. I think she will be the one to pull the plug, but just don't know if it will be Decision Day or the 90 day thing.

[Ilovepie]

3 hours ago, becauseIsaidso said:

This episode confirmed for me an idea I've had forming about AJ - mainly that he's totally different off camera. If his friends have never seen him mad and Stephanie has seen it almost from the get-go it seems logical to me that there must be a new variable involved, which is of course, the reality of going through this with a camera present and multiple retakes, etc. I also think that's why Stephanie seems to not speak up for herself - I think she's relying on her feelings about how he behaves in private/normal life and decided to carefully pick her battles on camera, knowing that jumping in with some attempt at getting him to turn it off will just make it worse. I think AJ is feeling harshly judged (albeit it due to his own behavior) and is intent of letting 'us' know that it's the intrusion and demands/equipment of production that send him 'round the bend. I also believe that when they were told they'd all be in one house and AJ verified with Pastor Cal that they'd each have their own rooms, he envisioned it more like a B&B with private bathrooms and equal accommodations - so that being the last to arrive and getting the leftovers hit him in the face as a very nasty, (and, in his mind I am certain, deliberately-production generated) surprise which naturally released the beast within.

I did not have a good first impression of AJ, but he has grown on me. At times he seems to exude a child-like desperation that we, the audience, know it is all these external factors that are pushing his buttons and making him present like an hot tempered idiot. I am also certain (from my background in dealing with TBI patients in a neuropsychological testing milieu) that a lot of his hair-trigger responses and tendency to disinhibited behaviors could well have been either the result of or enhanced by his injury. I do see some genuine affection between them - I think that if Stephanie did not feel it, we would have seen and heard a lot more critical THs and distancing behavior instead of her efforts to avoid getting embroiled in each new conflict. When she decided to go to bed, my first thought was 'smart girl'. I think they need a solid month of  real privacy to really get to know each other, so I do hope they stay together at least long enough to let all the effects of this zoo fade away. 

I will say I’ve been somewhat of an AJ apologist too, but his behavior went over the top into crude, rude and boorish. It’s also very immature. I think it’s understandable for him to be annoyed that they are sharing a house. I think it’s stupid too. But it’s not ok for him to ruin everyone else’s time by behaving like a drunken toddler for the rest of the evening. Maybe he is better when the crew is not around, but that doesn’t give him an excuse to act like this to everyone else, or really, even the crew either since no one forced him to sign up for this nonsense.

As for Kate and Luke, I got nothing. They suck. 

Ditto Will and Jasmine. He is basically using the excuse of “intellectual stimulation” the way Luke is using “you’re an alcoholic” to Kate. It’s just ironic that Luke and Kate actually had sex. Jas might want to talk to Kate about what it looks like when a man has sex with a woman he isn’t attracted to - she might change her mind about Will......

I can’t believe underemployed grandma’s boy Keith has become the best guy this season. Philly needs a do over.........

[Soup333]

49 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

Here's another theory- Luke is perfectly fine after sex; he just pulls the "I have to be alone for two hours" shit just to mess with Kate and further damage her self esteem. He's like a horrible child pulling the wings off an insect.

I don't know which it is, if he's manipulating her or if he genuinely has some type of issue with sex. Another thing that is confusing is that Luke claims to be pressured for intimacy but Kate says he's the one who is initiating sex. And not only is he initiating the act he has to convince her to do it because of his past behavior. It makes no sense at all. 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Ditto Will and Jasmine. He is basically using the excuse of “intellectual stimulation” the way Luke is using “you’re an alcoholic” to Kate. It’s just ironic that Luke and Kate actually had sex. Jas might want to talk to Kate about what it looks like when a man has sex with a woman he isn’t attracted to - she might change her mind about Will......

I don't think it's an excuse, exactly. I think he's just not that into her and he's trying to put his "why" for that into words. I think he finds her objectively attractive but something about her personality or their interaction squelches any physical attraction there may be. I don't fault him for not having sex with her when he's just not feeling it; that would be leading her on, I think and not really fair to her. Or him, for that matter.

[Soup333]

Thinking about all of Kate/luke’s Interactions with this new knowledge makes their “marriage” even more disgusting. 

Luke has told Kate”many times” that he’s still not attracted to her but he’s initiating sex all the while. And her dumb ass is having sex with him despite knowing he doesn’t want her. 

Her over the top crying on the anniversary makes sense. He didn’t want anything from her, not even the sex. 

Kate is almost in tears as she rates herself a 6.5. Then says to Luke, “It’s okay if I’m just not doing it for you.”

Why is she doing this to herself? 

[Neurochick]

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

Kate is crazy about Luke, very attracted to him physically, and in her own words, considers being on this show her last chance at love. I know a woman who is obsessed with a guy that I am convinced is probably some extremely charismatic and charming psychopath. The guy would throw her crumbs of affection and then sometimes use her for a booty call and she thought that meant he had a special bond with her and there was hope for a relationship. I think Kate has finally wisened up and that is why she told the experts. I think a tiny part of her actually wants them to make Luke like her or reassure her that he will like her since they were the ones that matched them up.

The experts match people up based on the information THEY receive from the participants.  What Kate needs to realize is that Luke was most likely lying, the person they set her up with isn't the person Luke actually is.  

Thinking about it, I don't think Luke is gay.  Some men can have sex with women they aren't attracted to and feel bad about it later because they weren't raised that way.  Poor Kate has equated Luke having sex with her, as Luke loving her, and that's not what is happening.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Neurochick

[Yeah No]

18 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

I don't think it's an excuse, exactly. I think he's just not that into her and he's trying to put his "why" for that into words. I think he finds her objectively attractive but something about her personality or their interaction squelches any physical attraction there may be. I don't fault him for not having sex with her when he's just not feeling it; that would be leading her on, I think and not really fair to her. Or him, for that matter.

The way I see it between Will and Jasmine is that there's no spark there.  Will gets jazzed by intellectual stimulation and passion, while Jasmine gets jazzed by sensuality and security.  Let's face it, Will is anything but sensual because he's all in his head, while Jasmine is anything but intellectually stimulating because she's very here-and-now and conventional with not much intellectuality in there.  She is scared by all the idealistic possibilities rambling around in his head and fears he is not the conventional rock of gibraltar/pay check she wants in a man.  He sees her as not on his level intellectually and fears she doesn't appreciate his life's passion.  It's no wonder there's no spark between them - They're just a bad match.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Yeah No

[CousinOliver]

Oh, Will, Jas does want something: sex.

I feel for her; I don’t want my fiancé acting like a roommate, either.  But this guy isn’t feeling it (it’s a shame, too, because I think he was feeling her at the wedding.  I think he was attracted to Jas, physically, until the teasing him about heights and financial expectations conversation on the honeymoon).  

They are so close to decision day.  This man needs to stay on his side of the bed.  At this point, it would just turn into “why did you sleep with me if...” 

I’m also appreciating the very visible “men can say no” narrative.  I’ve been following this show lots of places and I've occasionally read/heard “man up” and “throw her a bone” type language.  Naw.  Men don’t need to “step up” if they’re not interested.   If they decide to stay married and he’s not interested in a sexual relationship, okay, time for therapy, but Jas ain’t owed dick just because she’s a willing woman.  If Will isn’t interested and he knows it, he IS “manning up” by not having sex with her, at least in my opinion of a good man.