S05.E10: Enemy in the Family

[Julyolo]

3 hours ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

The great hunt for shoulders has borne fruit!  I, like many of us, will be happy when that fashion trend fizzles out. 

While I am not a tie-dye fan, I appreciate that Jazz chooses to wear what she is most comfortable in and makes her own decisions on hair and makeup.  We don't need a mini-Jeanette.  Jazz is at the age when many young people are really establishing their own style.  She's found hers, and she may adjust it over time and based on circumstances.  For now she is still in high school and lives in a warm climate.  She is comfortable in her loose dresses.  I appreciated her saying I'm not curling my hair and I'm not wearing makeup.  If it's not her, why do it?  

Her older sister dresses in muumuus and wears minimal makeup as well. Maybe Jazz is emulating her.

[Guest]

18 hours ago, Katydid said:

Jeanette sure was reluctant to share that Jazz had surgery complications. If her "job" is to act as an educator and supporter for parents of trans kids, seems a bit unethical to withhold info that would help them make informed decisions. 

Because in Jeanette's mind, the complications go against her sunny, poster child narrative of Jazz's transition. She's embarrassed by the complications (at least after they stopped being a source of drama/attention for her) because that opens her up for criticism about the puberty blockers/Jazz being too young for surgery/etc. and everything Jeanette decides has to be Right.  She definitely has some form of Munchausen by proxy with respect to Jazz's transition.

[calpurnia99]

51 minutes ago, TzuShih said:

How can a bright, creative, articulate young girl like Jazz have "butterflies in her stomach" over a guy who looks at NYC's most dramatic-looking building, The Flatiron, and comments "What a waste of space!"  (And a whole city wept!!)  😞

Sometimes when you date someone, you don't realize that they are a complete idiot right away. Ha ha happened to me, there was an initial physical attraction and some things in common, but I began to realize he was really quite ignorant. 

[Muffyn]

2 hours ago, MrFluffy said:

The mom might be very informed but still have the right to disagree; everyone's entitled to a personal opinion. A lot of biological women -- older ones -- fought to destroy gender stereotypes in the 1960s and 1970s. It could be argued that Jazz embraces the old female stereotype (giggly, brainless, unaccountable, not worthy of a job or education, interested mostly in beauty and appearance) such women tried to neutralize so they could be considered equal in the workplace, in their personal finances (when I was born, women could not even get credit in their own name), and in other opportunities. I think it would go a long way in acceptance if Jazz would try to understand that point of view instead of regarding such as bigotry. It's a two-way street, and Jazz's opinion of Amir's mother could be considered prejudiced as well. It's not all about you, Jazz, the world is a wonderful, diverse place.

The unfortunate thing with this show is that in trying to maintain some privacy for Jazz, we do not see her outside of things related to her being transgender and her physical transition.  TV is a visual medium.  It is going to focus on what we can see.  I can understand the frustration of having fought for gender equality only to feel like someone is focusing their idea of gender on appearance.  At the same time, I see that as more of a problem of the show, not the person. 

Jazz is young and discovering who she is.  Yes, she can come off giggly and silly.  She is in some ways quite immature.  In others she has been through a lot. 

She is intelligent.  She has not said she wants to spend her life being taken care of.  While we had the storyline of her struggling with school and switching to homeschooling, it was not based on lack of intelligence or low grades.  The kid is smart and has through most of the time we've seen her been presented as a good student. 

She is kind of damned if she does/damned if she doesn't.  If she wants to embrace the gender norms that many people assign to being female, then she is moving us back in terms of feminism and/or focusing only on appearance.  If she doesn't then others will challenge whether or not she's acting enough like a girl.  

Yes, she needs to mature and improve in her ability to debate with others.  Heck, I am too far past 17 to remember how well I could structure an argument around an issue that struck to the core of who I am and my validity as a human, but I am guessing I was not ready to have a well-reasoned, even-handed detailed debate addressing the finer nuances of history, gender, women's rights and the role of women in society.  

[Joan of Argh]

14 hours ago, Joan of Argh said:

  

I thought Jazz stomped into the conversation with Ahmir’s mom and heard what she wanted to hear.

Ahmir’s mom said that Ahmir has never spoken well or accepting of gay people or people like Jazz... She even said she knew someone like jazz and when she mentioned that person to Ahmir he didn't react well.... She said he is LYING TO YOU... But of course Jazz being Jazz, impatient, immature, loud and bossy ignored all of that and turned the entire conversation into his mom being a bigot and then hung up on her.

Amhirs mom knows her son better than Jazz and might have been warning her that he isn't who YOU think he is!

MAYBE it's the truth, maybe he is only trying to be around jazz for the reality TV show aspect or some other reason.

If that's the case it would explain his reaction to any info about her VAGINA and his lackluster attitude when she's so pushy about sexual contact....he isn't acting like a young man who is really attracted to her and can't wait to kiss her or anything else.

Jazz and Jeanette totally ignored ALL of that and chose to focus on his mom being a horrible ignorant person.

MAYBE it's Ahmir who is the horrible person and his own mother is trying to warn you.  

Some people are horrible and can be very mean, look at Meri Brown on "Sister Wives"... She was contacted and catfished by an evil person who thinks it's fun to do that type of thing.

Of course admitting or even seriously considering the possibility that Ahmir isn't head over heels attracted to Jazz means Jazz and Jeanette accepting the idea that he isn't attracted to her at all and is just using her for his own purpose, whatever that might be.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Joan of Argh

[readheaded]

11 hours ago, TwirlyGirly said:

Estrogen only, and at the time they became noticable, I remember thinking "I'll have whatever she's having, please!" 😉

Signed,

Lifetime member of the IBTS*

*Itty-Bitty Titty Society

Thanks for answering, I was wondering about this, too.

And, I stand in solidarity with you, my IBTS sister, lol.  

[readheaded]

I have to wonder how much of Jazz's "unladylike" behavior is the result of not growing up "completely" as a girl?  While it's certainly not too late to learn, I think so much of how we behave can be attributed to near constant social conditioning that she probably didn't have, or at least not to the extent that many of us do.  It's an interesting question to me (but I'm a dork like that, lol).

[SongbirdHollow]

2 hours ago, TzuShih said:

How can a bright, creative, articulate young girl like Jazz have "butterflies in her stomach" over a guy who looks at NYC's most dramatic-looking building, The Flatiron, and comments "What a waste of space!"  (And a whole city wept!!)  😞

It's actually a very efficient use of space. So weird.

[msrachelj]

7 hours ago, SuseQ said:

Wow; Jazz's three transgender girlfriends are very pretty.  Sweet too.  The trend of blocking puberty definitely makes for a more feminine appearance and voice. Though presents more issues for surgery. 

the girls at the cat shop? (which i was hoping they would show more of!) very girly girls, i agree.  but why was all their makeup troweled on? the younger one, charlie? had 2 pounds of false eyelashes besides. she looked like a little girl playing dress. how old are they, especially charlie that these girls are wearing false eyelashes and tons of make up? it looked terrible! 

[msrachelj]

2 hours ago, TzuShih said:

How can a bright, creative, articulate young girl like Jazz have "butterflies in her stomach" over a guy who looks at NYC's most dramatic-looking building, The Flatiron, and comments "What a waste of space!"  (And a whole city wept!!)  😞

this!!! made me dislike him. or at least , the boy needs an education . but for now he is a fucking moron. i wanted to scream. this is one of the most iconic buildings in the world. shows what a uneducated idiot he is.

[Joan of Argh]

6 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

the girls at the cat shop? (which i was hoping they would show more of!) very girly girls, i agree.  but why was all their makeup troweled on? the younger one, charlie? had 2 pounds of false eyelashes besides. she looked like a little girl playing dress. how old are they, especially charlie that these girls are wearing false eyelashes and tons of make up? it looked terrible! 

I agree, in fact I was having flashbacks to Jon Benet Ramsey and all the little pageant girls with their inch thick make-up, eyelashes and lacquered hair.  😲

A little make-up properly applied is so much nicer.

[xls]

26 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

the girls at the cat shop? (which i was hoping they would show more of!) very girly girls, i agree.  but why was all their makeup troweled on? the younger one, charlie? had 2 pounds of false eyelashes besides. she looked like a little girl playing dress. how old are they, especially charlie that these girls are wearing false eyelashes and tons of make up? it looked terrible! 

& her top was way too  low for an off-the-shoulder IMHO. 

[Joan of Argh]

1 hour ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Because in Jeanette's mind, the complications go against her sunny, poster child narrative of Jazz's transition. She's embarrassed by the complications (at least after they stopped being a source of drama/attention for her) because that opens her up for criticism about the puberty blockers/Jazz being too young for surgery/etc. and everything Jeanette decides has to be Right.  She definitely has some form of Munchausen by proxy with respect to Jazz's transition.

That's exactly what I was thinking, being totally honest about the situation, warts and all means owning up to the fact that maybe some of the decisions Jeanette made weren't the best.

Heaven forbid Jeanette having to admit that maybe some aspects should have been handled differently.

At this point Jazz's results are what they are and hopefully she's happy with the end result once she's had any additional surgery that's necessary but Jeanette should be open and honest with the other moms so they can make the best decisions for their children.

I'm hoping maybe when the cameras weren't recording Jeanette opened up and told them the whole story including any serious problems and complications.

[xls]

10 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Let's see...Amir has no job and doesn't appear to care much for having one. He is negative, immature and complains a lot. When Jazz goes in for a hug, he barely touches her. What a catch!

I don't think he's into her at all, just there to be on TV or something. He's probably an actor, like one of those random off-the street people TLC hires for My Big Fat America Gypsy Wedding 'guests' lol

[gingerella]

So much to say, and yet I feel like I'm repeating myself this season...

I wish I could say I was shocked or surprised at how Jazz mishandled the situation with Ahmir's mother, but I remember well how rude she was in cutting off her lovely grandpa when he was talking about transgender people and she didn't like where she thought he was going so she cut him off publicly, on camera, telling him how wrong he was, when if she'd allowed him the courtesy of finishing his thoughts, she would have seen that he was totally on track and speaking from the heart while also being factually correct. But Jazz lacks impulse control. She wants a lot of things and she wants them right now! She has big issues with waiting for something, and cooling her heels, and while her interviews and advocate talks might have been cute and all when she was younger, now that she's a young lady, she either needs to cool her shit and learn how to communicate and debate opposing opinions in a professional and productive manner, especially if what's being said isn't in line with what she believes, or she needs to step down from public speaking. Because that phone call with Ahmir's mother says everything about someone who cannot handle anyone else's truths if they don't jive with her own. Nobody "wins" in that scenario, least of all the trans community, which makes this all the more sad, because when this show began I had high hopes that it would bring positive things to the trans community but Jazz feels more like a liability nowadays because she's showing a personality that is quite unlikable most of the time - at least with what we're shown on the show.

As for Ahmir, I said last week or the week before, I have a feeling he's gay and filled with self-loathing because he was raised in a church/family that looks at being gay as a sin. Perhaps he's gone through some sort of conversion therapy bullshit through his church, and he felt that a trans girl was sort of a safe middle ground, though now that she's had bottom surgery if that's what he thought, it's now moot in a way. But I can totally see the thought process there if that was his thinking originally. Quite frankly, I felt his mother wasn't so horrible, I mean, what she was saying is your typical garden variety ignorant comments with a huge dollop of church guilt. I think there was room to stick one's foot in that door and create the possibility for future conversations, but thinking she'd change her mind in a few minutes phone call was just a fantasy. That sort of change of mind takes time, space for introspection, and a lot of giving and loving until the other person can begin to see another way forward. Jazz and Jeanette do not provide that pathway, unfortunately.

Lastly, three things:

1. What the everloving fuck is up with all these trans girls wearing the off the shoulder/one shoulder schmatas?! Jazz and that little girl both wearing off the shoulder tops - the girl looked way too young for that, and Jazz has huge knockers that should be in a supportive brassiere, which isn't compatible with off the shoulder tops (who wears that stuff nowadays anyway?!? It was my prom dress style back in the 80's!). And that other girl wearing a one shoulder top - is she at a cocktail party with 45 year olds, or at a kitty cat parlor? I know Jeanette is the patron saint of open shoulder tops, but I wonder if this off the/one shoulder phenomenon is linked somehow to what a trans girl thinks is 'feminine' or if it's just a run on bad fashion sense...it's very strange...

2. Ahmir, you think NYC is boring and ugly and a waste of space? NYC to Ahmir: "It's not me, it's you!"

3. Jazz yelling at Ahmir's mother about not understanding about communities that are targets of hate, oppression, bigotry, violence...For real Jazz? You think an African American mother with sons, who lives in Philly doesn't know about that too?

Edited March 7, 2019 by gingerella

[Joan of Argh]

Jazz seems more than happy to overlook all of Ahmir’s immature judgemental observations meanwhile she had a hissy fit at his mother.

His mom is typical of a lot of people, Sure she's misinformed and judgemental but I didn't think she was horrible.

Why is jazz so eager to overlook and ignore all the odd reactions and judgemental things that come out of Ahmir’s mouth yet she had no patience or willingness to do the same for his mom?

Jazz acted like a myriad of other young women who end up in bad relationships, they let the guy get away with murder while demonizing all the women around him.

That's where I thought Jeanette as the ADULT in the room really dropped the ball.

I often get the feeling that Jeanette likes the idea of being the cool girlfriend instead of the mother.

She should have said, "hang on a minute.. You say he's never liked or talked kindly of people like my daughter.. please elaborate." and she should have told Ahmir to leave the phone alone and that as a concerned mother she wants to hear what his mother has to say.

But nope... Instead we get girlfriend Jeanette in her stupid teeny bopper clothes going right along with the hissy fit nonsense.  🙄

[possibilities]

Did Jazz say Ahmir's mom didn't know about communities that were targeted by violence? I thought what happened is that the mom asked why "you people" act like victims and Jazz said that trans people ARE victims of violence and discrimination, and that's why they talk about those things.

[Love2dance]

22 hours ago, Mollysmom said:

Her upper lip bugs me - it practically touches the bottom of her nose. She could be halfway pretty if she would have a nose job, fix the ears, and maybe her fat lips wouldn't look so bad if her nose was smaller. 

I really am not comfortable saying a teenager needs to have her facial features fixed. I actually think she is very attractive, but even if I didn’t, I don’t think it’s kind to suggest she needs cosmetic surgery. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Love2dance
Removed unnecessary sentence

[Adiba]

22 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Did Jazz say Ahmir's mom didn't know about communities that were targeted by violence? I thought what happened is that the mom asked why "you people" act like victims and Jazz said that trans people ARE victims of violence and discrimination, and that's why they talk about those things.

I think you are right, Ahmir’s mother said something about “playing the victim “ and Jazz tried to explain that transgender community does in fact experience discrimination, violence, etc. 

The problem with the conversation between Jazz and Tara (Ahmir’s mother) was that they were both coming from two fundamentally different points of view. Neither one was really willing to listen. Each just wanted to have their say.

 Jazz insisted on having a conversation with Tara, who she knew disapproved of the relationship because Jazz is transgender. I think Jazz should have been better prepared to hear things that were unpleasant or disagreeable, imo. 

[MsTree]

14 hours ago, SuseQ said:

Jazz's three transgender girlfriends are very pretty.  Sweet too.  The trend of blocking puberty definitely makes for a more feminine appearance and voice.

New viewer here, and don't want to offend, but Nicole looks like a teenage boy; whereas her other 2 friends look more like teenage girls. I know the show isn't about her friends, but I wonder what Nicole is (or isn't) doing differently that makes her features stand out more masculine.  Can someone fill me in?

[MissTeacher13]

1 minute ago, MsTree said:

New viewer here, and don't want to offend, but Nicole looks like a teenage boy; whereas her other 2 friends look more like teenage girls. I know the show isn't about her friends, but I wonder what Nicole is (or isn't) doing differently that makes her features stand out more masculine.  Can someone fill me in?

This would be due to not blocking puberty. Jazz took (is taking?) puberty blockers which stopped the onset of male puberty. 

[ClareWalks]

15 hours ago, MsTree said:

New viewer here, and don't want to offend, but Nicole looks like a teenage boy; whereas her other 2 friends look more like teenage girls. I know the show isn't about her friends, but I wonder what Nicole is (or isn't) doing differently that makes her features stand out more masculine.  Can someone fill me in?

It's Noelle and she went through male puberty.

[Kid]

On 3/6/2019 at 5:14 PM, Joan of Argh said:

If that's the case it would explain his reaction to any info about her VAGINA and his lackluster attitude when she's so pushy about sexual contact....he isn't acting like a young man who is really attracted to her and can't wait to kiss her or anything else.

Jazz and Jeanette totally ignored ALL of that and chose to focus on his mom being a horrible ignorant person.

MAYBE it's Ahmir who is the horrible person and his own mother is trying to warn you.  

I just watched this not half-asleep and I am absolutely appalled at what I just saw. And I have to agree with your assessment. Ahmir’s reaction when she was describing the details was appalling.  She is so focused on his mother not accepting her, HE does not accept her. He could not have more clearly told her that he was creeped out by her body.  I  felt very sorry for Jazz and I could not believe that, after he just got done telling her he was creeped out by her vaginal tissue, she focused on meeting and talking to his mother.  And her mother, who I am beginning to dislike more and more every second,  just stands there grinning like an idiot!  If that little shit had said that to my daughter, I would’ve told him to go back to Philadelphia and I would’ve told her that, until she moves out of my house she will not be seeing him anymore. And that would’ve been the end of it.

Jeanette is second thing in this episode that appalled me With regard to her actions during the interview in her house with the reporter. She sees herself as an advocate, spreading information, opening closed minds in a single bound, and being the self-sacrificing, supportive,  madonna of the modern age.   And she’s adamant that her daughter does not speak her truth about her operation.   In my opinion, she is not afraid that people will be afraid to have the surgery (future patients’ doctors will tell those patients, just as Jazz doctors told the Jennings, about possible complications even if Jazz says nothing). What she is afraid of is that people will judge HER!!   Judge her for all the decisions she has made since Jazz was little. That’s what she’s worried about. Because, let’s face it, this is all about her.  What an unlikable hypocrite.

I don’t know how much more of this series I can take.

Joan of Argh, if I could give your posts 1000 likes, I would because I agreed with you on each and every point and it was very well stated.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Kid

[K1210]

On 3/5/2019 at 9:01 PM, twinks said:

I'd just be happy if she'd wash her hair...and maybe wax those brows.

She SHAVES them with one of those little eyebrow razors 😬

Also, all that hype about what Ahmir isn't telling the truth about just for Jazz to not even pay a single ounce of attention to what his mother said!

[Joan of Argh]

7 hours ago, Kid said:

Joan of Argh, if I could give your posts 1000 likes, I would because I agreed with you on each and every point and it was very well stated.

Awwwww thanks!  I just called it as I saw it. 

I still can't believe how they handled the situation and just let Ahmir walk away without confronting him about his comments and actions.   🙄

[nutella fitzgerald]

7 hours ago, Kid said:

He could not have more clearly told her that he was creeped out by her body.  I  felt very sorry for Jazz and I could not believe that, after he just got done telling her he was creeped out by her vaginal tissue, she focused on meeting and talking to his mother.  And her mother, who I am beginning to dislike more and more every second,  just stands there grinning like an idiot!  If that little shit had said that to my daughter, I would’ve told him to go back to Philadelphia and I would’ve told her that, until she moves out of my house she will not be seeing him anymore. And that would’ve been the end of it.

Jeanette has been shown for YEARS urging Jazz (who was clearly uncomfortable with the idea) to start dating and I never understood why. Even though most cisgender kids date in high school, I don’t think it’s completely freakish and unheard of not to! It’s like no one told her that human life expectancy has changed since the Bronze Age and Jazz actually has plenty of time to explore dating and romantic relationships. It’s actually pretty pathetic  that Jazz’s teenage friends are more sensible about vetting her boyfriend as a decent person rather than dating anyone just for the sake of ticking a box on the Normal Girl Checklist.

[Visaman666]

On 3/6/2019 at 8:32 AM, SuseQ said:

Wow; Jazz's three transgender girlfriends are very pretty.  Sweet too.  The trend of blocking puberty definitely makes for a more feminine appearance and voice. Though presents more issues for surgery. 

They were wearing a lot of makeup though, like a mask. It reminded me of a crossover episode of Toddlers and Tiaras. I really worry for tomorow's generation.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Visaman666

[Visaman666]

8 minutes ago, Visaman666 said:

Edited March 8, 2019 by Visaman666

[CousinAmy]

My mom was very pushy about my having friends (nagging me to join a high school sorority) - and I eventually realized it was because she didn't have many friends when she was in high school. And she pushed me to continue seeing my first boyfriend - because she was so afraid that I, a cute, smart college freshman, would never be asked out again if I stopping seeing him. Jeanette must be terrified that no one will ever love Jazz so she is desperate for her to date and pair up. It might not even have to do with Jazz being transgender - because it's really about Jeanette anyway.

I can see her fussing over her "baby" no matter the circumstances.

I still think Ahmir is an actor - just a really bad one!

[MissTeacher13]

1 hour ago, nutella fitzgerald said:

Jeanette has been shown for YEARS urging Jazz (who was clearly uncomfortable with the idea) to start dating and I never understood why. Even though most cisgender kids date in high school, I don’t think it’s completely freakish and unheard of not to! It’s like no one told her that human life expectancy has changed since the Bronze Age and Jazz actually has plenty of time to explore dating and romantic relationships. It’s actually pretty pathetic  that Jazz’s teenage friends are more sensible about vetting her boyfriend as a decent person rather than dating anyone just for the sake of ticking a box on the Normal Girl Checklist.

I agree. I didn’t start my first relationship until my mid-twenties. Even though it sucked, I was able to finish my studies and travel the world by myself. We are still together and so far have one child. The Normal Girl Checklist needs to go in the bin. 

[silverspoons]

2 hours ago, nutella fitzgerald said:

Jeanette has been shown for YEARS urging Jazz (who was clearly uncomfortable with the idea) to start dating and I never understood why. Even though most cisgender kids date in high school, I don’t think it’s completely freakish and unheard of not to! It’s like no one told her that human life expectancy has changed since the Bronze Age and Jazz actually has plenty of time to explore dating and romantic relationships. It’s actually pretty pathetic  that Jazz’s teenage friends are more sensible about vetting her boyfriend as a decent person rather than dating anyone just for the sake of ticking a box on the Normal Girl Checklist.

My daughter has no desire to date and is in high school. She has been asked out a few times but declined. She says that many boys are immature and if she were to go on a date she would want to have something in common to talk about and would expect the boy to be smart enough to carry on a decent conversation. Her doctor said that the important thing before age 18 is to have interactions and spend time with people you could possibly date. It could just be in a club, class project, group outing etc. My daughter is totally focused on getting into a college that will have more people she would have things in common with to date. So may teens in our area marry and marry the first or second person they date(I'm emotional tonight because my son;s 18 year old BF who I have known since grade school announced yesterday he is marrying his first girlfriend he has known 2 months in May and dropping out of college, and had a full scholarship) and I'm thrilled my daughter is focused on college and waiting to date.

Jeanette seems to put so much pressure on the ideal high school and college experience. Not everyone goes to the prom, plays a sports, is on the yearbook staff, dates and has 5 Best friends. I wonder if she is causing some of the issues with the twins. Are they really that at odds because one is dating and one is not or is the mom making a bigger deal out of it? Isn't the twin that is not dating trying to get into law school and very involved in activites. Jeanette needs to remember if Greg was not a successful lawyer , she would not have the life she has and sometimes focusing on school at 20 is more important then dating.

[gingerella]

9 hours ago, silverspoons said:

Jeanette seems to put so much pressure on the ideal high school and college experience. Not everyone goes to the prom, plays a sports, is on the yearbook staff, dates and has 5 Best friends. I wonder if she is causing some of the issues with the twins. Are they really that at odds because one is dating and one is not or is the mom making a bigger deal out of it? Isn't the twin that is not dating trying to get into law school and very involved in activites. Jeanette needs to remember if Greg was not a successful lawyer , she would not have the life she has and sometimes focusing on school at 20 is more important then dating.

I think the guess that Jeanette wasn't popular at all in HS is likely true based on her obsession with Jazz's social life. However, the fact is, I would hope all kids do NOT 'peak' in HS or college because then what?! All the popular kids in my HS went on to marry early, most live in the same area they grew up in (nothing wrong with that, it's a beautiful area but...) they never traveled the world, they don't know what's beyond their little berg. I feel sorry for them. I think it's much healthier to do your best in HS and college and blossom as a young adult, into your real life path. Peaking in HS is some sad ass shit if you ask me.

[silverspoons]

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

I think the guess that Jeanette wasn't popular at all in HS is likely true based on her obsession with Jazz's social life. However, the fact is, I would hope all kids do NOT 'peak' in HS or college because then what?! All the popular kids in my HS went on to marry early, most live in the same area they grew up in (nothing wrong with that, it's a beautiful area but...) they never traveled the world, they don't know what's beyond their little berg. I feel sorry for them. I think it's much healthier to do your best in HS and college and blossom as a young adult, into your real life path. Peaking in HS is some sad ass shit if you ask me.

I 100% agree. Same here people marry young and never leave. I have been to 49 states and many other countries and people flock around to hear my stories because they have never left and most likely will never travel anywhere but Disneyland and I find it sad. Very sad when so many get scholarships and could leave for free but they say I do not want to leave the bubble, they actually say the outside area is bad and scary (My kid's math teacher was one of the people who said this, so sad). I'll admit it is a happy little bubble, I'm moving in a few months and I do worry getting back to the real world but the bubble does not have enough doctors, higher education so we must leave for our next adventure. 

I have been back and forth was Jeanette trying to make Jazz have the high school life that she did not have? or the same one she had? It sounds like Jeanette and Greg met pretty young? They were together at least when he was in college? Is this correct? If it is maybe she has the 1980-90's mentality you meet your spouse in college.

[possibilities]

I have been assuming that Jeannette's pushing the same kind of childhood she had, that Jeannette dated, went to prom, and all that other stuff. In my experience, "the popular kids" value that highly and want it for their children, and the "nerds" and "outsiders" and "non-conformists" are more likely to value it when their kids don't fit in or just do things in their own way/time.

But honestly, it's hard to know. It could also be that she's worried about Jazz conducting so much of her life on line and long distance, and she wants her to be grounded in the everyday world she lives in, or that she worries about Jazz's depression and thinks she thinks it might be caused by not having enough social bonds, or even that TLC is pushing it as a narrative because romance makes for better ratings on TV.

We just don't know. Most parents I've met want their kids to follow some agenda or other and it's not always all that rational. I tend to think that a lot of what we see is drama related to the cameras being present and that none of our lives would look all that graceful if we were being filmed as much as the Jennings family is.

[Twopper]

On 3/6/2019 at 7:06 PM, gingerella said:

3. Jazz yelling at Ahmir's mother about not understanding about communities that are targets of hate, oppression, bigotry, violence...For real Jazz? You think an African American mother with sons, who lives in Philly doesn't know about that too?

 I thought that was spectacularly dense of Jazz, but my experience, limited as it is, with many trans people is that they are so focused on trans issues than not a lot registers that isn't related to their situation(s).   I realize that is not true or all transgenders, but I do think it probably is with Jazz.   She is focused like a laser on transgender issues, and the civil rights movement was back in the 60's so it doesn't register with her.

I don't get Ahmir at all.  The conversation about the vagina on the sidewalk was awkward to say the least.   If Jazz told him all the details repeatedly in their skype and phone chats, why on earth does he suddenly feel it is creepy?  I think he must have mental issues. Run, Jazz, run!

Among other things that bugged in this episode was Jeanette's insistence that Jazz having the second surgery  because the stitches were unraveling was not normal. (I am sure I have not expressed that very well) To the best of my knowledge the surgery that Drs Bowers and Ting devised was new because Jazz was one of the earliest patients who were on blockers and they had to improvise with what little material they had.   Maybe this will never happen in any other surgeries with blocked patients or maybe it will happen more often than not.   I am sure the docs will refine the surgeries they do in the future based on what happened with Jazz.   But I think not telling the other parents is a bad idea; of course, thanks to the show, now everyone knows. 

And, yes, the friends of Jazz did remind me of Jon Benet Ramsey and also of  "Toddlers and Tiaras." I am appalled that I know about the latter. 

[K1210]

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

. I think it's much healthier to do your best in HS and college and blossom as a young adult, into your real life path. Peaking in HS is some sad ass shit if you ask me.

This!!! Soooo much! High school is definitely NOT the best years of your life 😂

Most of the people who miss the great time and popularity they had in high school are living in the past.

It's so much better to peak in (at least) your 30s -- when you have more life experience and no longer have that childish mindset.

[TomGirl]

On 3/6/2019 at 7:45 PM, Joan of Argh said:

I'm hoping maybe when the cameras weren't recording Jeanette opened up and told them the whole story including any serious problems and complications.

Or they could just watch the show...

[DNR]

How could Jeanette & Jazz have ZERO reaction to BLAH-mir saying “eww that’s creepy” to Jazz explaining her transition surgery ??   That was a major red flag.  I’m just a viewer of the show and i was like WTF

[possibilities]

I thought Jazz did have a reaction to him saying that. She said it bothered her, and that she can't understand how he's surprised, since she told him already in detail what the surgery consisted of.

[DNR]

6 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I thought Jazz did have a reaction to him saying that. She said it bothered her, and that she can't understand how he's surprised, since she told him already in detail what the surgery consisted of.

That was the scene out on the street ? Jazz seemed to look 👀 at him as puzzled ( did she tell Blahmir it bothered her?) but Jeannette should have gone into Mom mode .  Is Blahmir brain dead ? Or not have access to google ? Jazz is so hellbent on having a bf that she’s convinced herself this loser is worth her time 

* I’m not thru the whole episode yet so I’ve only seen the NYC Street convo so far

Edited March 9, 2019 by DNR
More words

[TwirlyGirly]

3 hours ago, MrFluffy said:

<snip>Jazz's (lovely) grandfather suggested Jazz was valedictorian for Jazz's online high school -- but my nephew got his HS diploma from such -- there's no such thing as a valedictorian and little or no contact with other students.  They are basically diploma mills for kids who can't be bothered getting out of bed.<snip>

The Florida Virtual School (FLVS) is a completely different program than what is available online to students in other states, because it is operated by the Florida Department of Education. According to my research, they hold a statewide commencement ceremony every year. Also, the individual school districts do name a valedictorian and salutatorian from the top students of all the virtual school students in their district.

Here's an article about the pros and cons of FLVS, which mentions and quotes Jazz:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.mic.com/articles/amp/188919/should-you-send-your-kids-to-online-school-these-are-the-pros-and-cons-and-the-costs

In particular, I found this paragraph enlightening:

"Virtual schools have a reputation for being easier, which isn’t necessarily the case. In fact, the opposite may be true, and students who have trouble working independently may struggle in an online environment, McGuire said. Not everyone who applies is admitted to the program."

Edited to add:

According to the article, Jazz is taking college classes at the same time she's finishing up her senior year of high school (dual enrollment). She's on track to earn both her high school diploma and her associate's degree by the end of this summer. 

So I don't think Jazz is someone "who can't be bothered getting out of bed"! 😉

Edited March 9, 2019 by TwirlyGirly
Additional info

[TomGirl]

3 hours ago, MrFluffy said:

But until Jazz lifts Jazz's derriere from the sofa, I wonder where life will take Jazz in five years when there's no more show.

Just curious, is there a reason you didn’t use any pronouns in your entire post?

[gingerella]

1 hour ago, TwirlyGirly said:

So I don't think Jazz is someone "who can't be bothered getting out of bed"! 😉

You can lay in bed surfing school work. Just sayin'. 😀

[lilly6]

My son graduated from an online high school and he had commencement and a valedictorian and certainly could motivate himself to get of bed. He's now in his second year of college majoring in Psychology with a minor in PoliSci, pre-Law.   He had some medical issues that made traditional school difficult.  His graduating class contained a large number of nonconforming kids, including a married couple who carried their baby with them.  I can absolutely see how Jazz might be more comfortable in an online school environment.

[princelina]

On 3/8/2019 at 1:45 AM, nutella fitzgerald said:

Jeanette has been shown for YEARS urging Jazz (who was clearly uncomfortable with the idea) to start dating and I never understood why. Even though most cisgender kids date in high school, I don’t think it’s completely freakish and unheard of not to! It’s like no one told her that human life expectancy has changed since the Bronze Age and Jazz actually has plenty of time to explore dating and romantic relationships. It’s actually pretty pathetic  that Jazz’s teenage friends are more sensible about vetting her boyfriend as a decent person rather than dating anyone just for the sake of ticking a box on the Normal Girl Checklist.

My high school aged nieces (one is now a college freshman) and their friends never had/have boyfriends - they go to dances with groups of friends and each has a "date" for picture taking purposes, but that's it.  They also don't wear makeup and dress mostly in soccer/gym clothes, or the baggy dresses if you insist they look nice for a family event.  (I even had to have words with the buxom one about the need to wear a bra 😄). So Jazz seems very normal to me in that way.  

IMO Jeanette's constant harping on Jazz having a boyfriend is for the same reason that you all were giving for her not wanting to talk about the complications with Jazz's surgery - she doesn't want to be judged for her decisions, and thinks that Jazz having a boyfriend would be "normal", thereby thumbing her nose at anyone who might think otherwise.

[Chalby]

On 3/3/2019 at 4:18 PM, gingerella said:

3. Jazz has ceased to be an asset to the trans community

I felt I had so much to say when I was 17, 18, 19, 21, etc. Fortunately, people tired of me on their own. Yes, I was hurt, but at the ripe old age of 52, I just didn't understand much. It's okay to sound silly when you are young, and it's okay to admit you weren't all that at 52. Everyone's life is just a learning path. I wish Jazz all the best and thank her for making shows like this seem the 'norm'.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Chalby

[Joan of Argh]

18 hours ago, TomGirl said:

Or they could just watch the show...

I meant in more detail than we saw in a few minutes on the show... All we heard was stitches blew, it was a mess and Dr ting fixed it... 

I thought Jeanette might give the moms more info.

[Chalby]

On 3/6/2019 at 1:07 PM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

When Ahmir's mom is saying he is gay it is in reference to Ahmir liking Jazz.  So she is denying that Jazz is a girl. So the crappy thing is, to complete the sentence for her, "His mom is saying 'my son is gay' because he likes me."  I don't think Jazz is anti-gay.  She is anti people claiming that a man liking a transgender woman is gay because it is a roundabout way of saying the transgender person is not the gender that they are. 

I don't know - let Ahmir's mom say what she wants. This is new for her too, and she doesn't know "the rules" around labels. She thinks her son is gay because he is attracted to Jazz, (who does not look male). Why do we have to label it? Just enjoy any and all   friendships that come out of it.

[Chalby]

On 3/6/2019 at 1:41 PM, TzuShih said:

How can a bright, creative, articulate young girl like Jazz have "butterflies in her stomach" over a guy who looks at NYC's most dramatic-looking building, The Flatiron, and comments "What a waste of space!"  (And a whole city wept!!)  😞

Yikes, have people forgotten ridiculous things said as youths so that we wouldn't appear too enthralled, or not cool enough?

On 3/5/2019 at 6:53 PM, Mollysmom said:

Not to mention Jazz's huge lips.

But lips are very very good

[Chalby]

On 3/3/2019 at 2:41 PM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

What is Ahmir hiding?  How much does he learn about Jazz's surgery?

So I not love my husband if I do not want to hear every detail of his colostomy bag? Some people cannot handle medical details. Does that make us bad?