S01.E17: Goodbye

[Mrs peel]

15 hours ago, Dani said:

So instead of it being a million little things it was really one or two big things. I am so tired of there being a big dramatic past secret. Maggie’s guilt over her brothers death, Regina’s being abused as a child and now Jon’s 9/11 survivors guilt. I don’t think I sticking around to find out what big dramatic secret the others are hiding. 

Yep. This just felt manipulative. 

Yep, and so badly done.  Because Jon’s daughter turned 16 within months of his death, meaning she was born in late 2002.  Hmmm, so Jon met Delilah in, what, early 2002?  And fell in love, got married and had sophie almost immediately, just after he complains that Barbara moved on too quickly.  Listen, I find the “Barbara found a guy while pregnant (and a first responder to boot, do we need to be hit over the head repeatedly with references to 9/11?) ridiculous, but the show has this happening twice.

also, since Delilah met Jon soon after 9/11, are we really to believe that NO ONE ever mentioned to her that her new guy should have been on Flight 11, but missed the flight?  Not one friend, not a co-worker of Jon’s, not a family member (is Jon an orphan?).  Don’t buy it at all.  And, having met just after 9/11 (at an airport no less, why did he have the ticket?), just another reason that somewhere along the line they would have done their “where were you” thing.

if they make Jon out to be PJ’s father I will scream, because, again, let’s have 2 story lines of guys shacking up with a good friend’s significant other and the woman getting pregnant.  NO, sloppy and lazy writing.  And of course then Jon shouldn’t feel betrayed by Delilah, if the show claims he did the same thing.  But I agree with others that Mitch’s anger doesn’t make sense unless Jon is the dad.  I can understand if they never told the son who his biological father was he wouldn’t want it to come out 16 years later.  But again, WHY wouldn’t Barbara not have told the Dave’s family?  Their family member just died tragically, wouldn’t they be enthusiastic that his son was being born??  More nonsense.

and none of this really explains Jon’s death to me.  Why have all the financial hardship if he killed himself over survivor guilt?

I’m annoyed enough that PJ is Barbara’s kid AND the genius who gave Rome the pointers.  Did we ever learn why hewas at the hospital?  Maybe something for season 2. He better not have cancer.

i agree with others on Rome and the baby conversation, wrong time and place.  And yeah, how do these two have the money for a lease of a sports car?  I also want to know how the writers know folks who can afford this stuff after quitting a job.

i want Katherine and Eddie back together, but I’m not sure I’m sticking around for season 2 to find out.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

Its not like the truth paints Dave or PJ's new dad in a bad light.

My guess is they are going to use it to show the possible consequences of pretending the Jon is the father of the baby. I would be stunned if Eddie actually tells Katherine the truth immediately. 

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

Maggie wasn't the only one lifting in what seemed like contradiction to her medical orders. Delilah was also doing so, and then she went into labor. I wonder if they will blame her for the early labor or something. It just seemed like more than a random thing to highlight her lifting and being reminded she's not supposed to, and then the sudden start. Though I do also agree that it's not that early. They said she was due "less than 4 weeks from now" earlier in the episode.

Maggie had surgery scheduled for the day after her last chemo treatment which would never happen in real life. Nash does not care about medical realism. 

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

Unlike many people, I do hope that there is a serious gaze directed at choosing whether or not to have a child next season. Rome has the right to want children of his own, Regina has the right to decide she doesn't want to have children.  How does a couple deal with that? What compromises for love will be made? 

I really hope they use this as a opportunity to really address Rome’s depression. He might really want to have kids but he is also a man grasping at straws trying to find happiness. 

At the moment neither of them are ready to have a child even if the both want to. 

[Dowel Jones]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

And, besides that, why is it SO TERRIBLE for them to tell the kid the whole truth? Its not like the truth paints Dave or PJ's new dad in a bad light.

Another problem is that Barbara and Mitch have to invent an entirely new timeline to tell Patrick.  They could say that she became pregnant right after meeting him, but, as with most young boys, he might just want to see the firehouse where Dad works.  And then Mitch has to keep everyone there on the same storyline, because they would obviously know that he met and married Barbara while she was at least a few months pregnant.  Too many chances for someone to slip up and put some doubt in Patrick's mind.  And now, enter the video from Jon.

[Guest]

Now that I am moving past my irritation with how the mystery was handled I do think the writing has significantly improved in the last few episodes. 

I really hope they write Delilah more like they did in the airport bar scene. That was one of the few times they actually played to the actresses strengths. 

[woodstock]

I want to know what Regina’s secret negotiation skills are!

My impression of Rome/Regina is that Rome seems to be in love with the idea of having a kid whereas Regina is thinking a. I don’t want kids and I thought you didn’t either and b. we have too much on our plate right now (the restaurant, Rome’s mental health issues). Sure babies are adorable, a blessing, yada yada yada...but if there are any underlying issues/pressures/concerns in the marriage (relationship) a baby can exacerbate those things. Rome doesn’t seem to be taking that into account. He has the ‘babies are magical and will make it all better’ viewpoint.

Maybe Rome can try mentoring (My Brothers Keeper, Big Brothers/Big Sisters) to see if that satisfies the itch he’s trying to scratch instead of springing his desire to have a kid onto Regina and expecting her to be all ‘let’s do this!’ I’m curious to see how this plays out next season.

I’m actually rooting for Eddie and Katherine provided Eddie tells her about the baby. 

I loved the scene in the doctor’s office between Gary and Maggie.

The Jon/Barbara/9-11 stuff was ok. I guess I was expecting more???

Colin getting a belly rub...too adorable!

[taragel]

I kept thinking I would've liked to have seen the show this episode culminated in....but that it wasn't the one I have been watching?

Everyone just seemed totally off. Eddie telling Katherine he's regretted not being with her every time he's seen her or picked up Theo? Uh...since when? Last week maybe? Poooossssibly the week before? Surely not before that when he was firmly in love with Delilah and hating Katherine at every turn and allowing if not encouraging his friends to hate her. 

GARY (!) saying "I just want you to be happy and if that's with Katherine, well great." WHAAAAAT?? He was the MOST hostile to Katherine. 

Hunter out of nowhere trying to sexually harass/retaliate against Katherine breaking up with him? (That actually seemed to smack of a scene or two having been cut along the way.) The biggest problem this show has is Katherine being more awesome than she was supposed to be, I think. Because they're now maybe trying to pivot from how they characterized her at the very beginning and nothing makes any sense.

Rome suddenly wanting kids (thank God for Regina, but I know she's gonna cave to adopting some teen or something) again also felt too fast and out of nowhere. Yeah, sure he was happy in episode 3 or whatever when he found the pregnancy test but....just meeting PJ shouldn't have provoked such a response. Oh and Sophie inexplicably talking about "all the things" he'd done for her this year. Which...were...what exactly? He couldn't even do the dance with her in Jon's place, making Eddie conveniently step in.  

The 9/11 guilt was unexpected but I agree that the "it's a million little things" like survivor's guilt from 17 years ago and total financial bankruptcy right damn now is a justification that we haven't really seen play out in the right balance.

The PJ being Patrick twist was pretty good, but I too didn't get the sheer panic of Mitch. I mean I guess lying to your somewhat mentally fragile/depressive kid for 17 years is NOT GREAT, BOB. But...I mean the guy died while he was a fetus, so...Mitch was his dad for all intents and purposes. It wouldn't really have changed that much...

Sigh. This show. It's my new Nashville (in terms of hatewatching and not making a lot of sense.)

Edited March 1, 2019 by taragel

[cardigirl]

5 minutes ago, taragel said:

Rome suddenly wanting kids (thank God for Regina, but I know she's gonna cave to adopting some teen or something) again also felt too fast and out of nowhere. Yeah, sure he was happy in episode 3 or whatever when he found the pregnancy test but....just meeting PJ shouldn't have provoked such a response. Oh and Sophie inexplicably talking about "all the things" he'd done for her this year. Which...were...what exactly? He couldn't even do the dance with her in Jon's place, making Eddie conveniently step in.  

The 9/11 guilt was unexpected but I agree that the "it's a million little things" like survivor's guilt from 17 years ago and total financial bankruptcy right damn now is a really weak justification that we haven't really seen play out in the right balance.)

1

Eddie was supposed dance with Sophie and couldn't do it, and Rome stepped in. 

[Neurochick]

I didn't see people as exactly being off.  Human beings aren't computers and don't act in the way they're supposed to.  I thought Katherine was awful to Hunter.  She was hurt because he didn't tell her he made partner before he slept with her, which made sense.  But her "comeback" was lame, how does Katherine even know SHE was the first pick?  

I think Rome has thought about kids, ever since he saw Delilah's pregnancy test and thought it was Regina's.  

I think Delilah has been slowly moving away from Eddie, I'm thinking about the man who invested in the restaurant; I think he was the same man she met at the gas station.  I think Eddie and Delilah fell for each other because their spouses were not talking to them about what was going on with them.  Jon never told Delilah his guilt over his friend; Katherine, I think worked too damn much.  It's like both Eddie and Delilah saw the person they married, actually saw them.  

[taragel]

51 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Eddie was supposed dance with Sophie and couldn't do it, and Rome stepped in. 

Ah, well that makes a bit more sense then. But I still don't really remember much other interaction between Sophie and Rome this year? Eh, IDK, it just seems like they make up whatever's convenient for the characters to think/feel at the time.

[iwasish]

I really don’t like  Eddie. He was all ready to leave Katherine and Theo and to start a new life with Jon’s family ( so much for loyalty to a friend), unconcerned over the impact on the three kids involved or how his precious group of friends would react. Then Delilah pulls the rug out from under that idea because she’s decided to pretend her dead husband is baby’s daddy. And suddenly he appreciates Katherine and wants her back?

I wasn’t all that impressed with Katherine telling off her new boss. She probably has been giving off vibes since they slept together. She was annoyed that he banged her before telling her he was the new partner. She couldn’t take a partnership because she and Eddie had split and she needed to be home more with Theo. So who gets the job is none of her business. Now that she and Eddie are going to get back together, she might be regretting turning that job down. They haven’t shown her much at work, my guess is she was there after hours and early in the morning, (when Eddie was there to watch Theo). Hunter may have noticed and come to the wrong conclusion about the reason for the change, (or he could be a dick). But I didn’t care for her remark about “wanting to be home more to spend time with “her family” with a smug look.

PJ... his parentage is going to be an issue. Delilah closed the laptop before Jon’s speech was finished.... PJ listened to the ending (part of which we did not see), and Mitch’s anger is not proportional to Delilah showing up. He’s  scared of something.

Edited March 1, 2019 by iwasish

[tennisgurl]

I mean, I guess even after Regina's never spoken of before or after history of sexual abuse was tossed out there, the show thought we needed even more dramatic issues, so...9/11!

Look, I get that they want to talk about serious issues that affect a wide range of people, but so much affecting this one group of randos is just starting to get ridiculous. Next season, it turns out Eddie started drinking because his best friend died of AIDS! And the kids have a possible shooter at their school! And Rome is racially profiled and gets hooked on medication! In the same episode! Oh, and Garys dad actually died on the Challenger explosion, and thats why he wants to help everyone! Oh the drama!

I kid, but I can honestly see every one of those thing playing out.

Edited March 3, 2019 by tennisgurl

[debraran]

Some people just love Nash, maybe because he's youngish and spends an inordinate amount of time on twitter. If you dare say you didn't like a plot device, it's "How could you say that!! He's a genius"  I hope that ebbs, it's a bit much.

I hope they have some intelligent plots next season and PLEASE don't make PJ Jon's son. We don't need anymore babies with mystery dad's and what's the purpose? Jon's gone and can't do anything and Danny is forgotten as it is. I am hoping for some flashbacks with Jon and his kids next season I enjoy him more than the angst of Eddie and I know she has cancer but sometimes Maggie gets on my nerves.

Swooping Delilah out of Barbara's home like she had the plague (kid never saw a pregnant woman?) was very odd, but sometimes Nash needs a twist, how to see some of the video but not all? How do we have Sophie meet Nelson and go in her home but not her mom?  I think PJ knows a lot more than he lets on, he knew that his mom had something on her computer, what kid goes to his parents lap top and uses it? No password login I guess either.

I hope Sophie gives Katherine something, Maggie gets Jon's mementos and the person who helped save her house, doesn't. Delilah is so kind. I loved how Sophie got her mom into gear about her dad. Later, when she hears about baby, the apathy she saw will probably take on a different tone, was she overwhelmed or just didn't care? I see anger and some heightened emotional moments that even Gary on speed dial might not be able to help with.

[ams1001]

I gotta say, it didn't quite register in my mind at first that it was 9/11; I was just thinking the plane crashed (Neurochick above mentioned the date shown on a newspaper, but I didn't see that). It didn't fully click until the "we will never forget" at the end. (Which then got me thinking, how long after the plane took off did it hit the tower? And when did the public learn which specific flights they were? Why was Jon still hanging around at the gate? Even if he planned to change his flight he'd have to go somewhere else.)

12 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

There are other ways to raise kids, Rome should realize if Regina doesn't want a pregnancy or a newborn but is open to having a child around then fostering or adopting an older child could be on the table especially since older kids are so often passed over.

I thought for a second when Rome said the line about it not being about "having a baby" that he was going to suggest fostering or adopting an older child, which could have been an interesting conversation (though it risks going into This-Is-Us-Randallization territory). But he went elsewhere with it. Oh, well. (I suppose they could still go there, though, if they actually have a real discussion about the subject and why Regina doesn't want kids/why he changed his mind.)

9 hours ago, cinsays said:

Yeah, and I thought I heard one of them talking about the lease on the Tesla that they just had......

Yeah, Regina asked if he was sure he didn't want to just get another Tesla instead of testing a bunch of other cars. (Which I can relate to; I'm on my fourth car of basically the same model because I'm not a car person, I like my car just fine, I've never had a major problem with them (at least not until the first one was old enough to expect some bigger maintenance issues to come up), and it's less stressful to stick with what I know…except my budget is Hyundai, not Tesla.)

5 hours ago, cardigirl said:

but maybe he does have a right to explore thoroughly that option with her, without her shutting him down.

Absolutely...but bringing it up at the hospital when she's heading in to be with her widowed best friend in the delivery room and being all hurt and shocked when she bluntly says "no" is just dumb. She might have been more open to having a conversation at a better time. And at home (or at least somewhere less stressful than a hospital maternity ward).

5 hours ago, cardigirl said:

so maybe they are gonna pull a "it's Jon's baby."

That could be an interesting path, and if they do it of course it'll be after he confesses to Katherine and their start-over gets thoroughly derailed. A few months down the road, after he's bonded with the baby, they'll do a DNA test for some reason and find out he's not the father after all. (He should ask for a paternity test anyway and I'll be surprised if Katherine-the-lawyer doesn't say as much, assuming he actually tells her.)

5 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I am looking forward to the second season. Good job show.  You started out kind of rough, but you got me pulling for you.  I'm in (LOL) for season 2.

I wavered here and there, but I, too, will be back for season 2. (Not sure I can say the same for a certain other new show involving a plane.)

[tennisgurl]

So Jon killed himself because he felt bad about his friend dying and had survivors guilt? I mean, yeah thats definitely a thing, but it seems more like a lot of different issues (wife is having an affair with his friend, economic issues) than to focus on this thing. And all the drama with this lady seems kind of...over dramatic? Like, "oh my god, this woman is...the wife of my dead best friend who has his son but they lied about his parentage!" 

Also, Barbara's husband seems like a grade A asshole, freaking out and lying and yelling at Delilah for just wanting to talk to the women who talked to her daughter and went into her house. I dont even like Delilah very much, and even I was offended on her behalf. I dont blame them for getting together, but I do think its super sketchy that they lied to their son about who his father was. Not only does it try to erase this person she supposedly loved, but its just a cruel and pointless lie to a kid who is now struggling, which they may or may not know about. Its not like the guy was a serial killer!

Tell her the truth, Eddie! I hope that Katherine hasn't totally forgotten what Eddie did, but I am open to them trying again, as I think they have nice chemistry, especially now. Especially if Eddie actually tells her the truth! Also, why didnt Katherine get anything?! She saved their house, and was actually friends with John, but MAGGIE gets a cool thing, when she never even knew the guy? Get better friends Katherine! Go out with your sassy work friend!

Yeah, of course Rome and Regina are having a kid. No way would a show, especially a show like this, have a childless couple that made the choice not to have a kid. They both a right to their opinion, but this really is a bad time for them to have a kid.Regina has a new business, and Rome was suicidal like a month ago. They need to deal with their own selves before they start really talking about this, in my opinion. 

Jon and Delilah actually had some nice chemistry in the scene where they met. it was sad though when John was talking about how meeting her and being with her was the best thing ever, while she was cheating on him with one of his best friends and about to dump him in public. 

Edited March 3, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I gotta say, it didn't quite register in my mind at first that it was 9/11; I was just thinking the plane crashed (Neurochick above mentioned the date shown on a newspaper, but I didn't see that). It didn't fully click until the "we will never forget" at the end. (Which then got me thinking, how long after the plane took off did it hit the tower? And when did the public learn which specific flights they were? Why was Jon still hanging around at the gate? Even if he planned to change his flight he'd have to go somewhere else.)

The plane took off at 8 and crashed into the tower approximately 45 minutes later. Jon would have had to be watched the second plane hit or the towers going down.

I wonder how much of Jon’s 9/11 story was inspired by Seth MacFarlane who was supposed to be on flight 11. He missed it by minutes and watched the new coverage in the airport while waiting for the next flight. 

Of course there are a lot of stories like that from 9/11. Mark Wahlberg was also originally supposed to be on that flight. 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Guest

[KaveDweller]

19 hours ago, possibilities said:

Regina did not want Rome to go off his pills. She told him she wanted him to go back on them, that his well-being was more important. Of course, the show never followed up on that. Is he on them or off them> Did they change to a new medicine? Is he getting therapy? Who knows?

They did follow up on that.  Rome decided to go back on his pills and told Regina he would. Then a couple episodes later he told his father/brother he was taking anti-depressants. I think he mentioned seeing a therapist in that scene too. He is clearly under some doctor's care if he is taking meds. They didn't focus on it as much as they should have, but they did follow up.

46 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Also, Barbara's husband seems like a grade A asshole, freaking out and lying and yelling at Delilah for just wanting to talk to the women who talked to her daughter and went into her house. I dont even like Delilah very much, and even I was offended on her behalf. I dont blame them for getting together, but I do think its super sketchy that they lied to their son about who his father was. Not only does it try to erase this person she supposedly loved, but its just a cruel and pointless lie to a kid who is now struggling, which they may or may not know about. Its not like the guy was a serial killer!

I think Barbara's husband is afraid of the son finding out he's not his biological father and having that hurt their relationship. He's probably super insecure about not being the biological father. And I don't mean that as an insult, I mean

They probably lied because it seemed like a simpler story than to always have to explain. And maybe they didn't want the kid to grow up always thinking about his dead "real" father. It was their way of moving on.  Of course, lies like that always come out.

I feel like we are still missing a lot of information about Jon. The reveal about 9/11 shows that he has tough times in his past, and I guess are supposed to mean he was already broken and so the hard times in his current life added to it? Because he had clearly gotten past it and had a good life for 17 years. But it got triggered again with the financial stuff.  However, we know Jon had seemingly planned for his death for awhile, what with showing Rome/Eddie the dance he was doing with Sophie and setting up the hockey thing for Gary's birthday. It also takes time to set up life insurance like he did. I don't think we ever got that full explanation.

[LucyEth]

Do we know for sure that Barbara and her husband are letting PJ believe Mitch is his real father and that he knows nothing about Dave or are we just assuming that is the case?  I am wondering if I missed something.

[Dowel Jones]

Barbara came right out and told Delilah "Mitch is PJ's father", so I assume they have told him that same thing.

[Winston Wolfe]

On 2/28/2019 at 10:18 PM, debraran said:

I didn't think they did the 911 stuff well but they couldn't do the show well in an hour. I

This show has been growing on me, so I have mixed emotions about the season finale.  I lived in NYC for most of my life and resided in Brooklyn on 9/11.  My then-SO worked four blocks away from Ground Zero.  So that day was a very real thing for me, something I'll never forget.  Especially the strong smell of jet fuel in the air two days after the event.  So having strong emotions almost 20 years after the event kind of makes sense to me.  Honestly, I still get nervous driving over the Brooklyn Bridge, wondering if/when we're going to get hit again.  But life goes on, and as other posters said, Jon had enough other crises going on in his life that committing suicide because of survivor's guilt somehow rings false and hollow.

Edited March 2, 2019 by Winston Wolfe

[Guest]

Finding out the Jon was plagued with survivors guilt makes his suicide note really unbelievable. I just can’t see a man who expressed regret over the things he didn’t say in a final conversation would chose not to leave a message for his children. When he has a chance to make one last phone call he chooses Eddie and then gives up when he doesn’t answer. He takes the time to record a video to Barbara but doesn’t record one for his family. Nope, not buying it. 

I also noticed that no one bothered to tell Barbara that she was supposed to get the life insurance money that Ashley took. Everything about the $18 million debt was a gigantic waste of time that took away from showing the supposed many things that led to Jon’s suicide. 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Guest

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Wow, they made sure to hit every cliche possible in the finale: Katherine decides she wants to reconcile with Eddie, Rome decides he wants to have a kid, Delilah's water breaks, Rome's new depressed friend PJ is Barbara's kid, UGH.

Oh, Rome. Having a baby isn't supposed to be the thing that puts things in perspective for you when you're depressed. Just as people with troubled marriages shouldn't have a kid in an effort to fix their relationship, someone who is depressed shouldn't have a kid in the hopes that it will fix that either.

I'm glad that Gina didn't immediately cave and start waxing poetic about tiny baby fingers and raising a human. Just because Rome changed his mind doesn't mean that she has. And she's right - having a kid is a huge financial commitment which doesn't seem like a great idea when the restaurant just opened.

Meanwhile, Rome is not currently employed/bringing in money which makes having a kid an even bigger financial issue because if the restaurant doesn't succeed then they have no other income to fall back on. And on top of that, in the space of a few months, he went on meds, quit taking them without consulting a doctor, and went back on his meds. If I'm not 100% sure that you are feeling okay, I don't want to leave you with a baby 24/7 because that is a stressful role.

I was fuming when Eddie was going on and on to Katherine about how every time he drops Theo off, he thinks about how he's already home, blah blah blah. Seriously? You were just making goo goo eyes at Delilah like FIVE MINUTES AGO. It makes me mad that he keeps telling Katherine how much he loves her and wants to make their marriage work but he's got hearts shooting out of his eyes whenever he's within 50 yards of Delilah. And that's before you add in the fact that he's been keeping the baby daddy secret from Katherine. I couldn't believe it took that comment from Gary to get the anvil to fall on Eddie's head. No, you can't reconcile with Katherine and continue to keep that HUGE FUCKING SECRET from her.

Hunter can eat a big bag of dicks for his passive aggressive threat about how they need to be professional and how this is starting to affect her work. I laughed my ass off when Katherine told him the truth.

ETA: the best moment in the entire episode was Colin getting his belly rubbed!

Edited March 2, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[alexvillage]

Reading some of the comments and the mention of Nash - which I had never heard of and don't think is anything special as a writer - I am thinking that the decision of 17 episodes was either something would show his "genius" (haha) or that, imposed on him, showed his deficits as a show runner.

I do like the concept of the show but I think it got lost in the "million things", like someone said above, instead of a million little things, it became one or two big things - and those two big things were quite underwhelming. 

I do like the direction that the Katherine and Eddie story is going. I still don't understand why she wasn't at the gift-giving. friends do take sides when there is a split but she wasn't the one betraying the spouse, She and Eddie are in a better place - as far as the other ones know - and she stepped up to help Delilah. Basically, she is being used by everyone and discarded when not needed. UGH!

TV life is so much like real life (read it with sarcasm). "The restaurant barely opened, and it is doing sooooo well, let's buy this very expensive car, even though you are unemployed now, but wait! your script is incredible so, of course, you will make millions on it, your first one. yes, I agree, but let's buy a different car and have a baby! I know I am still learning how to deal with my depression and I should know that this type of rushed decisions are a bad idea for everyone, specially me but let's do it and let's talk about it right here, in the corridor of a hospital, as our friend is yelling in pain, about to pass a whole human through her vagina." I don't know, maybe that whole ting was supposed to be a comedy.

So Maggie had a what? 20% chance of surviving  even with treatment and now she is in remission? i do hope this story is based on reality, it is hopeful but I thought it was contrived, and tis is a result of a badly written plot that went too melodramatic in the beginning just to be resolved so seemingly easily.

The Barbara Morgan story was ridiculous. I do believe that some people could feel the same way about telling their kid about the real story of his father but the way it was written was so melodramatic. Mitch was having a meltdown because  Delilah was in his house. It is not like a teenager would even care if a random woman was in his house talking to his mother. It is not like a teenager would just sit down and engage in a conversation with her. He feels depressed, so he would probably just go to his room, be alone.

About the 9/11 story, this might be sensitive to some. If it's you, stop reading here. 

*

*

*

I am tired of the use of 9/11 in shows. I  don't think it is well done, I think it is pushy and without nuance. It feels like it is forcing us praise the writers for "never forgetting". It became a go-to storyline, something that is cause and consequence of everything that happens in everyone's life. There is so much evil in the world and really close to us, things that are happening right now that are killing so many more people than what happened in 9/11, and it is all our own doing. To me, using this, became almost a trope, an easy way to explain everything that cannot be ever questioned. It is worse than holocaust stories that focus only on jews and forget all the other groups that were decimated, or the other bigger genocides that occurred in the world that some people don't even know about. It feels like emotional manipulation. 

Besides all this, I believe it can be really triggering to survivors, real survivors, when it is just thrown in the mix as an explanation of someone else's badly told story.

[debraran]

8 hours ago, Dani said:

Finding out the Jon was plagued with survivors guilt makes his suicide note really unbelievable. I just can’t see a man who expressed regret over the things he didn’t say in a final conversation would chose not to leave a message for his children. When he has a chance to make one last phone call he chooses Eddie and then gives up when he doesn’t answer. He takes the time to record a video to Barbara but doesn’t record one for his family. Nope, not buying it. 

I also noticed that no one bothered to tell Barbara that she was supposed to get the life insurance money that Ashley took. Everything about the $18 million debt was a gigantic waste of time that took away from showing the supposed many things that led to Jon’s suicide. 

Some might call it suspenseful writing but I think it's not done well. They bring up so much and then rush through a resolution. D , who can't do anything on her own, visits Barbara with grumpy Mitch (does anyone work in this show??) alone and has a minute visit. She closes the lap top BEFORE Jon is through talking which is incredulous to me. I thought so I re-watched, PJ was home then but he wasn't.  She just closes it after his talk of meeting her was over. Well it is all about her. lol  Who does this in real life even stretching the norm.

Poor Danny, Sophie knew her dad taught the guys her dance steps for her dance (but still a poor replacement) but Danny wonders if his dad knew he was gay and killed himself. No this is so wrong. How could they write this? As you said, he picks Eddie as his last call and said I wish you picked up, but D gets a typewritten letter and Ashley a trip, Barb a long video we still have to see, and the kids nothing. Money is not the point, it's impersonal and cold. If they make PJ Jon's son, we might as well be watching General Hospital. Why do that? He's dead and he has 2 or 3 children (baby undecided)

I want to see more exploring Jon's past and how Gary and Maggie go forward with Maggie knowing Gary wanted to save her, a common feeling when you lose someone you felt you could help. (happened to me once) I hope Regina and Rome have an adult conversation on babies and depression and reality of both. (I can hope) I remember ER and Carol being so upset she couldn't adopt a child with HIV because of her past suicide attempt. That wont stop Regina if she wanted too but she's right, Rome hasn't even dealt with this a year yet.

I think he's been lost in the Clue shuffle but maybe will get better scripts in the next season. We can hope.

[Clanstarling]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Meanwhile, Rome is not currently employed/bringing in money which makes having a kid an even bigger financial issue because if the restaurant doesn't succeed then they have no other income to fall back on. And on top of that, in the space of a few months, he went on meds, quit taking them without consulting a doctor, and went back on his meds. If I'm not 100% sure that you are feeling okay, I don't want to leave you with a baby 24/7 because that is a stressful role.

And being a writer (or any other at home professional) and taking care of children is even more stressful. I've done that, and it's isn't a great situation - you need concentration to write and children interrupt you constantly. You can make it work, but it is difficult.

[AttackTurtle]

I started off not liking Eddie, but damn it, he may be my favorite now.   The flashback scenes with Katherine showed that pairing has more chemistry than any other couple on this show.  The fact that he was ready to be honest about the baby was nice to see.  

I’m pretty “meh” about Delilah.  

Having been thru breast cancer, I hated the “treatment/no treatment” storyline.  I was pretty methodical about my treatment.  The doctor said do it and I did it.  

I did end end up liking this show much more than I anticipated I would.

[debraran]

39 minutes ago, AttackTurtle said:

I started off not liking Eddie, but damn it, he may be my favorite now.   The flashback scenes with Katherine showed that pairing has more chemistry than any other couple on this show.  The fact that he was ready to be honest about the baby was nice to see.  

I’m pretty “meh” about Delilah.  

Having been thru breast cancer, I hated the “treatment/no treatment” storyline.  I was pretty methodical about my treatment.  The doctor said do it and I did it.  

I did end end up liking this show much more than I anticipated I would.

I think people who have been touched by cancer see the shows plot and symptoms differently than others. It's more personal. My mom and sister went through it, my sister twice and never thought once, I'm not going to try. That's a choice but I worry not just a guy wanting to save her, re Gary, but a woman who wanted to die but said Gary "made her care".  Both aren't healthy parts of the relationship.

[bybrandy]

15 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

He is clearly under some doctor's care if he is taking meds.

One would hope but that isn't always the case.  Somebody in my life who is bipolar manages to get his meds with a once anual visit to the doctor.   I feel like they'd be better off if they were being monitored on the regular and doing work outside of the meds but I'm not his wife or his mother so....

[Aliconehead]

3 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

One would hope but that isn't always the case.  Somebody in my life who is bipolar manages to get his meds with a once anual visit to the doctor.   I feel like they'd be better off if they were being monitored on the regular and doing work outside of the meds but I'm not his wife or his mother so....

Yep. A psychiatrist prescribed but the patient is supposed to see a psychologist also. My niece and SIL skip the psychologist, but they REALLY need both. 

I am wondering if the scene with PJ finding out he is Dave’s bio son happened before the hospital scene. He then tracked the friends and ended up with them in the hospital.  Because why was he there.  I am never a fan of lying about parentage or having other kids because in this day and age it is too easy for the kid or other family to find out the truth with DNA heritage testing so prevelant. 

[izabella]

2 minutes ago, Aliconehead said:

I am wondering if the scene with PJ finding out he is Dave’s bio son happened before the hospital scene. He then tracked the friends and ended up with them in the hospital.  Because why was he there.  I am never a fan of lying about parentage or having other kids because in this day and age it is too easy for the kid or other family to find out the truth with DNA heritage testing so prevelant. 

I have similar questions about PJ being in the hospital that day, and meeting Rome.  It seems too big a coincidence that he was at the hospital that day, and that he met the friends.

But I can't figure out why PJ would track them down.  None of them knew Dave. 

[cardigirl]

An article I read about the finale had Nash saying that the line about “this is a car you would buy for a family” was directly from his life, as he and his wife were married for years and thought “no kids” until one day, when they were buying a car and she said that line to him. Now they have two children. He said he pulls a lot from his own life. 

As far as overusing 9/11 or the holocaust as a plot point, well, I don’t think it diminishes those events at all. And, in this case, I thought the Boston tie-in was very well done. 

Also, I’ve been on anti-depressants a couple of times in my life, and they are very effective. Both times, though, they were monitored and prescribed by a psychiatrist, and I saw a psychologist regularly. They work best coupled with regular counseling, and I hope the show will show that more, next season. 

[debraran]

The actor who plays PJ said he wasn't at the hospital by coincidence but that is all he is allowed to say for now. He also said it wouldn't come out in finale, too much of other things going on.  Kids are pretty savvy and these adults can't seem to google so maybe he will find out more. Maybe he's the unexpected person to look into it.

[HazelEyes4325]

2 hours ago, cardigirl said:

As far as overusing 9/11 or the holocaust as a plot point, well, I don’t think it diminishes those events at all. And, in this case, I thought the Boston tie-in was very well done. 

1

I still haven't watched this episode (maybe later today?), but I did want to address this.  With me, it isn't a case of shows using these tragedies and cheapening them, but rather not showing respect to the show when they use them.  9/11 and the Holocaust are always going to be horrible nightmares and one mediocre and self-inflated showrunner isn't going to change that.  However, it does show how little respect he has for it.

I won't say that shows should never incorporate these historical events into their plots, but that they should be very, very careful in doing so.  One recent show that I think used 9/11 very well was Travelers (on Netflix).  I usually cringe when shows go there, but that one used it in a way that 9/11 is the only event that could have been used AND did so in a way that showed respect to the event and those who perished in it.

So, while it sounds like 9/11 was failed attempt here, I'm not one to say that it should be off-limits, as long as it can be handled well and with respect.

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

So, while it sounds like 9/11 was failed attempt here, I'm not one to say that it should be off-limits, as long as it can be handled well and with respect.

This is exactly the way I feel. The actual 9/11 scenes were fine with me but they way it was used overall felt like a gimmick particularly since the reveal was held until the last episode of the season. 

It’s not enough to show that Jon nearly died on 9/11 and then try to link it to his suicide 17 years later. One conversation with Ashley is not enough to show that he was suffering from survivors guilt.

In the end I think that the dramatic reveal of the date on the newspaper was more important to Nash than creating a believable portrayal of the long term impact of 9/11. 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Guest

[HazelEyes4325]

1 minute ago, Dani said:

This is exactly they way I feel. The actual 9/11 scenes were fine with me but they way it was used overall felt like a gimmick particularly since the reveal was held until the last episode of the season. 

It’s not enough to show that Jon nearly died on 9/11 and then try to link it to his suicide 17 years later. One conversation with Ashley is not enough to show that he was suffering from survivors guilt.

In the end I think that the dramatic reveal of the date on the newspaper was more important to Nash than creating a believable portrayal of the long term impact of 9/11. 

I think my personal take on this is that 9/11 (and other events) should only be used if nothing else will do.  Would it have made sense in the story if this had happened in any run-of-the-mill plane crash or did it specifically *have* to be 9/11.  From what I've read (I promise I'll watch it soon), it doesn't sound like it.  In fact, it might have been more plausible had it been a "regular" plane crash as, if it was 9/11, why didn't Jon *ever* mention that he almost died on 9/11.  I could sort of buy that he never mentioned that he almost died on a flight from x to y on random date in 2000, but not that he almost died on 9/11.

[Gothish520]

3 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I still haven't watched this episode (maybe later today?), but I did want to address this.  With me, it isn't a case of shows using these tragedies and cheapening them, but rather not showing respect to the show when they use them.  9/11 and the Holocaust are always going to be horrible nightmares and one mediocre and self-inflated showrunner isn't going to change that.  However, it does show how little respect he has for it.

I won't say that shows should never incorporate these historical events into their plots, but that they should be very, very careful in doing so.  One recent show that I think used 9/11 very well was Travelers (on Netflix).  I usually cringe when shows go there, but that one used it in a way that 9/11 is the only event that could have been used AND did so in a way that showed respect to the event and those who perished in it.

So, while it sounds like 9/11 was failed attempt here, I'm not one to say that it should be off-limits, as long as it can be handled well and with respect.

I thought it was handled very well. Looking forward to next season!

[KaveDweller]

6 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I think my personal take on this is that 9/11 (and other events) should only be used if nothing else will do.  Would it have made sense in the story if this had happened in any run-of-the-mill plane crash or did it specifically *have* to be 9/11.  From what I've read (I promise I'll watch it soon), it doesn't sound like it.  In fact, it might have been more plausible had it been a "regular" plane crash as, if it was 9/11, why didn't Jon *ever* mention that he almost died on 9/11.  I could sort of buy that he never mentioned that he almost died on a flight from x to y on random date in 2000, but not that he almost died on 9/11.

I can buy he never mentioned it. If he mentioned it, he would have had to also talk about his friend dying and how he blamed himself. And Jon came off as the kind of guy who didn't like to bring up negative things.

[HazelEyes4325]

9 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I can buy he never mentioned it. If he mentioned it, he would have had to also talk about his friend dying and how he blamed himself. And Jon came off as the kind of guy who didn't like to bring up negative things.

I don't think that would have been the issue.  I remember 9/11 and how, as if there wasn't enough news, news outlets tried to interview anyone who was supposed to be on the plane and wasn't.  That information would have been easy to find (I don't know if it is actually of the public record, but it would have come up at least for insurance reasons) and the fact that Jon was able to just block that part of his life off just isn't realistic.

But, then again, what is realistic with this show?

To be honest, I can see how he didn't mention it...he was too busy spouting of pithy advice nuggets to his friends.

I think my biggest problem with the whole thing is it feels like survivor guilt was not Nash's original plan for why this happened.  It was like he had this idea about a guy who commits suicide but didn't bother to think about until he needed to.  Or maybe he had another plan and then changed it when 9/11 seemed edgier and/or more likely to cause an emotional response in the audience (you know, emotionally manipulative).  In any case, at least 15 of the 16 episodes leading up to this don't really fit the narrative of survivor guilt. 

This is the first season of this show--that sort of thing shouldn't be happening.

[cardigirl]

My thoughts about the 9/11 tie-in is that there are millions of stories about that day and how someone has been affected by it. My then-husband flew out of Boston on that flight the day before 9/11. I’m sure he still thinks about it from time to time. 

I think the writing got stronger as the season progressed. The cast is talented. I have hopes that season 2 will be worth watching. 

[debraran]

7 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I don't think that would have been the issue.  I remember 9/11 and how, as if there wasn't enough news, news outlets tried to interview anyone who was supposed to be on the plane and wasn't.  That information would have been easy to find (I don't know if it is actually of the public record, but it would have come up at least for insurance reasons) and the fact that Jon was able to just block that part of his life off just isn't realistic.

But, then again, what is realistic with this show?

To be honest, I can see how he didn't mention it...he was too busy spouting of pithy advice nuggets to his friends.

I think my biggest problem with the whole thing is it feels like survivor guilt was not Nash's original plan for why this happened.  It was like he had this idea about a guy who commits suicide but didn't bother to think about until he needed to.  Or maybe he had another plan and then changed it when 9/11 seemed edgier and/or more likely to cause an emotional response in the audience (you know, emotionally manipulative).  In any case, at least 15 of the 16 episodes leading up to this don't really fit the narrative of survivor guilt. 

This is the first season of this show--that sort of thing shouldn't be happening.

My vow is to miss most of his interviews but it's hard when they are put on FB etc. I don't follow Nash and that kind of thing. He did allude to his psychologist friend who helps on the show, had 911 experience and she helped. He also alluded to changing some things along the way but not what, so you had a good conclusion with that. The financial stuff was full front from the beginning and then the "clues" in the apartment started. I thought auto accident with death or disability would have been fine but 20 year suicidal thinking, a little harder. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but with all he threw at you, not as easy to digest.  My biggest issues are the "I'm not the man you think I am" It still doesn't make sense, he didn't kill his friend, it was bad timing not personal. If he was coming to his office for a reunion lunch, got killed by a drunk driver, how is it different.? You feel guilt, but not degrade the person you are. No one is bad for inviting someone somewhere. Driving drunk, etc. more understandable.

Maybe they will explore more with Ashley coming back with financials. He was hero and then a crook, I hope not but there has to be some closure as to all the shredding and deleting.

A fan also mentioned he has 2 family members checking social media and ideas mentioned a lot seem to get in. The John/Jon on a trophy for instance. Someone noticed it and he it was barely noticeable. (Not my middle age eyes) and they brought it up in the finale. There was something else with Gary I think. I know it gives them a smile and he likes that, but it's definitely not as tight as This is Us.  He has the whole outline down until it ends.

Nash will say, "I hope to get Ron back more, I'd love it" which means he'll change things up to fit him in. I'd personally like that but it's loose. The same with Chandler (PJ) He's not contract so can leave but "he hopes he can be on for a certain length of time"  Maybe that's all fake too, he does know but he claims he only has the ending of season 2 and the middle can fluctuate.

Edited March 3, 2019 by debraran

[alexvillage]

14 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I think my personal take on this is that 9/11 (and other events) should only be used if nothing else will do.

That's what I think too. If they are going to use 9/11, then it would be better to do it in a larger context, that ties in with the story. The way it was done, it felt like the writers had  check list of "things to mention to make the story more emotionally relatable" but without any deeper thoughts about it. 9/11 was a tragedy but for someone who loses family and friends, or who nearly scape something like a plane crash, 9/11 is no bigger tragedy, not in a deep personal way. We are somewhat led to believe it is because everyone knows about it. I tend to think in a more - at the same time - global and personal way, how tragedy happens all the time and we don't know, or forget too easily.

Jon committing suicide because he lost control of a very bad business decision that triggered survivor's guilt is weak. When the writers say that the survivor's guilt has to do with 9/11, I feel that they are saying that that tragedy is so big, we must understand how plausible it is. I don't buy it. And that's why I am tired of 9/11 becoming part of nearly every show, just as a mention, just as a checklist item. 

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, alexvillage said:

9/11 was a tragedy but for someone who loses family and friends, or who nearly scape something like a plane crash, 9/11 is no bigger tragedy, not in a deep personal way.

I beg to differ. 9/11 wasn't just planes crashing into towers - it was also being under attack, and endless news coverage which heightened the sense of fear and anger. The combination of grief, anger, and fear becomes something larger in the personal reaction, imo.

If it wasn't larger in the personal sense, there wouldn't be people objecting to its use in this episode. I, myself, don't have a problem with it being used. It is a pivotal part of our history, and we all have a 9/11 experience we still remember, even if some of us don't notice the date nearly 20 years later.

Was it used well? *shrugs* About as well as anything else on this show. But Maggie, being the voice of the showrunners, explicitly said it wasn't the ONE thing, just ANOTHER thing. A big rock among other big rocks.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Clanstarling

[debraran]

24 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I beg to differ. 9/11 wasn't just planes crashing into towers - it was also being under attack, and endless news coverage which heightened the sense of fear and anger. The combination of grief, anger, and fear becomes something larger in the personal reaction, imo.

If it wasn't larger in the personal sense, there wouldn't be people objecting to its use in this episode. I, myself, don't have a problem with it being used. It is a pivotal part of our history, and we all have a 9/11 experience we still remember, even if some of us don't notice the date nearly 20 years later.

Was it used well? *shrugs* About as well as anything else on this show. But Maggie, being the voice of the showrunners, explicitly said it wasn't the ONE thing, just ANOTHER thing. A big rock among other big rocks.

I agree with that, any crash is tragic but this wasn't one or two blips on the news feed, it was us being attacked and multiple crashes and chaos. I find it tragic still that people who helped save others are still fighting for help with their health. Maybe a segue with Mitch?

I'm glad they did it without showing anything, without the awful pictures and coverage. It was more tasteful this way. I don't see how they wont have to rehash it though if Mitch, Dave and Jon were all involved. I also find Jon's compartmentalization something else. Six months later, at the same airport he meets Delilah and no mention of it. Even more odd, that no conversation of 911 ever came up. It had too and every year, especially back then, there was a lot of coverage. It is a show though, but I hope they keep some realism.

Edited March 3, 2019 by debraran

[alexvillage]

46 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I beg to differ. 9/11 wasn't just planes crashing into towers - it was also being under attack, and endless news coverage which heightened the sense of fear and anger. The combination of grief, anger, and fear becomes something larger in the personal reaction, imo.

This is all true. What I mean, and couldn't explain well, is that this type of things happen in the world all the time. There are countries being attacked by us all the time. They feel those same things all the time. Today, after all these years, I put things like that in a larger context. Things got worse. But I guess it is all different perspectives. I don't mean to invalidate yours. 

[HazelEyes4325]

4 hours ago, debraran said:

A fan also mentioned he has 2 family members checking social media and ideas mentioned a lot seem to get in. The John/Jon on a trophy for instance. Someone noticed it and he it was barely noticeable. (Not my middle age eyes) and they brought it up in the finale. There was something else with Gary I think. I know it gives them a smile and he likes that, but it's definitely not as tight as This is Us.  He has the whole outline down until it ends.

I'm assuming you mean Fogelman has an outline and not Nash?  Because, honestly, I'm not sure Nash has an outline for one episode, much less the entire run of the show!

But this both worries me and makes me snicker.  So, Nash is one of those showrunners who follows whatever social media says.  Well, I guess that's why Eddie and Katherine are now a thing because I really don't think that was his original plan (at least it is better than Eddie and Delilah!).  Of course, now I feel more empowered to voice my grievances on FB and IG when needed since, apparently, he listens to that.  And, I'll be honest, people started talking about 9/11 as a possibility on FB early on in the show.  (I'm now half expecting the hairbrained "Delilah got the dates wrong and it is JON'S baby" theory that is so prevalent right now to actually happen!)

I know Nash is not the only showrunner who follows the lead of social media.  However, I can't think of a showrunner of a *good* show that does that.  TIU is not my jam, but I at least respect Fogelman for sticking to his own story.

[LuvMyShows]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

 I also find Jon's compartmentalization something else. Six months later, at the same airport he meets Delilah and no mention of it. 

Didn't he write her digits on the back of his 9/11 boarding pass?  So are we to believe it was so important to him that he kept taking it in and out of whatever pants he was wearing for six months?  Then he thinks so little of it that he writes a phone number on it, like it was scrap paper?

On 3/1/2019 at 1:30 PM, LucyEth said:

I love the Katherine/Eddie getting back together storyline but not sure if it will happen.  Didn't he tell Katherine he was in love with Delilah, and now he has to tell her that Delilah's baby is his, hard to come back from those two things.  

I keep being reminded of Will and Grace (the original), and how Grace married the Harry Connick Jr character, and he had an affair, and they tried to make it work afterward.  But as hard as she tried, and as much as she wanted it to work, she just couldn't get past the betrayal and resulting lack of trust.  I thought that was very realistic, because most shows seem to soft-pedal the actual effect of infidelity in favor of the awww sweetness of reconciliation.

[tinderbox]

I’m confused.  I surmised Jon met D on 9/11 right after he missed the plane to LA...thus her writing on the back of his boarding pass which was eventually framed (and taken out of the frame by D in the last episode).  Am I wrong?

Edited March 3, 2019 by tinderbox

[izabella]

17 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

Didn't he write her digits on the back of his 9/11 boarding pass?  So are we to believe it was so important to him that he kept taking it in and out of whatever pants he was wearing for six months?  Then he thinks so little of it that he writes a phone number on it, like it was scrap paper?

That was Delilah who wrote her number on the back of his boarding pass.  She was leaving, then stepped back, picked up a pen and grabbed his boarding pass to write on.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, alexvillage said:

This is all true. What I mean, and couldn't explain well, is that this type of things happen in the world all the time. There are countries being attacked by us all the time. They feel those same things all the time. Today, after all these years, I put things like that in a larger context. Things got worse. But I guess it is all different perspectives. I don't mean to invalidate yours. 

Oh no, I didn't feel you were invalidating my perspective at all. I was also looking at a bigger picture (though just national instead of international). You're right that other people feel those same things all the time too. That wasn't the angle of the discussion I was looking at. 🙂

1 hour ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

But this both worries me and makes me snicker.  So, Nash is one of those showrunners who follows whatever social media says.  ...

I know Nash is not the only showrunner who follows the lead of social media.  However, I can't think of a showrunner of a *good* show that does that.  TIU is not my jam, but I at least respect Fogelman for sticking to his own story.

Yeah, that bothers me too. Even if I hate a show, I prefer that the showrunner follows his/her own vision rather than a grab bag of ideas from fans.

12 minutes ago, tinderbox said:

I’m confused.  I surmised Jon met D on 9/11 right after he missed the plane to LA...thus her writing on the back of his boarding pass which was eventually framed (and taken out of the frame by D in the last episode).  Am I wrong?

He met his dead friend's wife at the airport - I think on the dead friend's birthday (cupcake with a candle in it?). So it wasn't on 9/11 (and couldn't have been an anniversary, because she'd have had the kid by then.

[mansonlamps]

On 2/28/2019 at 9:05 PM, Lady Calypso said:

The Gary stuff has been strong this season, especially when it comes to Jon. I also didn't mind Maggie going into remission. Now, cue the countdown until Gary or Maggie propose and one of their cancers comes back next season.

Well at least it would be honest.   Breast cancer recurrence puts Maggie at stage 4, which is considered terminal.   She may be in remission for now,  but recurrence will happen at some point. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

He met his dead friend's wife at the airport - I think on the dead friend's birthday (cupcake with a candle in it?). So it wasn't on 9/11 (and couldn't have been an anniversary, because she'd have had the kid by then.

She said that is was on the dead friends birthday on March 12th.

I know this show does not care about accuracy but I really doubt you would be able to leave items like that in an airport in the post 9/11 world. It’s a minor thing but it does irritate that the show would use 9/11 in this way and then ignore the way that it changed airports. 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Guest