S02.E10: By Means Which Have Never Yet Been Tried

[Enigma X]

I wonder if Mark knows that he is a clone and he is actually pulling a long con on Gracie for the baby. Sure, he was interested before the baby but maybe he is more interested now.

[miles2go]

Howdy, OB forum.  I've been a lurker here (ever since TWOP shut down).

Season two has been awesome (except for that episode with Tony -- was seriously worried that OB had jumped the shark in that one).  Great finale; I figured there would eventually be male clones, but didn't think Mark would be one of them.  I'm wondering about something (well, not just this one thing!) When Sara sees the male clone working out, she says she knows him, but I don't remember when she encountered Mark.  Can anyone refresh my faulty memory?

 

And, yeah, a whole year before we can find out what happens next!  

[Loandbehold]

I'm really looking forward to a scene between Mrs. S. and Marian next season.

it's kind of a hoot that they introduce a female clone that can't possibly be played by Maslany.

 

You're wrong. The little girl was played by Maslany. Or, I might just be thinking that there's practically nothing that she can't do, so, play an 8 year old girl? No problem. Lose 2 feet in height? How fast do you need it done?

 

 

In the beginning did Sarah say she had an abortion?

I'd have to watch again, but I thought she said she hadn't had an abortion. I thought she was just getting upset at how intrusive the questions were getting and wondering if she'd ever get to see Kyra.

[Souris]

When Cosima seemed to be dead on the bed and had her vision of Delphine, was Kira healing her -- because that glow of light seemed to come from Kira ?

 

That's what I wondered. I was, like, "Wait, what, did Kira just heal Cosima??" That would be quite the development. For Kira's sake, I'm hoping she didn't, because God knows people want to get their hands on her now, could you imagine the hunt for her if she could heal people? I want Cosima to be healed, but I'm hoping that between Helena's embryos and Duncan's book, Cosima can figure out a cure for herself that way.

 

Clonepalooza tonight. Clone dance party! Leettle sestra! And Mark's a clone! Eee! Does he know he's a clone? Was he sent to infiltrate the Prolethians? Because quite the coincidence if he ended up there randomly. Clearly Marian has the Helena of the Mark clone club.

 

I wish the finale had been two hours. It went so fast! I would like to have seen Cal meet all the sestras. Amused by him and Paul meeting, though. Cal certainly seemed to take it all in stride.

 

So Michelle Forbes is playing a good(ish) character? Didn't see that coming! That may have been the biggest surprise.

 

I'm worried about Scott. Is he still at Dyad?

 

Obviously Rachel will be sporting a snazzy eye patch next season.

 

Will the clones find out that Mrs. S gave up Helena, or will they just assume she ran off? Which she did before she got snatched. (The hat seems a big clue for them that she was taken.) I wonder where she was going?

 

miles2go, Mark was one of the guys who tried to nab Sarah in the diner in the season premiere. She saw him then.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Souris

[calliope1975]

In the beginning did Sarah say she had an abortion? 

 

She did say yes to the abortion question. 

 

Poor Helena. I actually teared up when she met Cosima. But if anyone can handle some weird military operation, it's probably Helena. 

 

I also thought the clone would be Felix, but I'm kind of glad it's creepy Mark. He was in the military, right? Wonder if he ever saw himself. Bring on the boy clones!

[Sarah-phile]

Howdy, OB forum.  I've been a lurker here (ever since TWOP shut down).

Season two has been awesome (except for that episode with Tony -- was seriously worried that OB had jumped the shark in that one).  Great finale; I figured there would eventually be male clones, but didn't think Mark would be one of them.  I'm wondering about something (well, not just this one thing!) When Sara sees the male clone working out, she says she knows him, but I don't remember when she encountered Mark.  Can anyone refresh my faulty memory?

 

And, yeah, a whole year before we can find out what happens next!  

Sarah met Mark in the diner in episode one.  What's interesting is that Paul met him in the bar in episode six and didn't seem to know he was a clone.

[Sakura12]

It looks like the male clones are all soldiers since the Military took over that project, so there is probably an army of them out there. 

[miles2go]

miles2go, Mark was one of the guys who tried to nab Sarah in the diner in the season premiere.

 

Sarah met Mark in the diner in episode one.  What's interesting is that Paul met him in the bar in episode six and didn't seem to know he was a clone.

 

Ah, yes.  How could I have forgotten that?  But I did remember that Sarah drinks tea, LOL.

[Souris]

BBCAmerica put up an awesome extended clone dance party video, with bits of the effects.

 

I didn't notice on the initial airing (or maybe it wasn't shown), but I adored Alison's askance look at Helena's dancing.

[Katesus7]

I'll leave y'all to the excellent analysis of this episode and season, but had to share my thoughts of this episode:

"What?, damn, what the hell, hahaha, he totally killed himself because you suck, holy crap, kill her, kill her, your daughter drew you a picture of how to kill her, kill her, hahaha, she has a pencil in her eye, what just happened? What is going on, oh, Helena is there, oh no, oh yes, dancing! Oh no, Helena do something good, not bad, good not bad, oh crap she's screwed again, oh hell, Cosima is dead, no she's not! why do we care about that creepy couple getting married, oh that's why, damn! When does next season start?"

That probably made as much sense as this episode. Which was awesome,

[omgsowicked]

Wow. Just wow. I kept yelling, "That's Felix! Yes, you know him! That's a Felix clone!" And then it was Mark. Man, I love this show. And that's probably the best choice, to have it be Mark rather than Felix, Paul, or Cal. Though, there could have been a lot of interesting scenes and clone imitations with Cal clones.

 

So what did Cal and Marion talk about? What was in the folder Paul handed over? And what kind of deal did Mrs. S make? Handing over Helena in exchange for Dyad/the Army leaving Sarah and Kira alone? But Marion seems to have an issue with the Army... or does she? I can't figure out what the deal is with the locked up clone, if she "rescued" him or not. What's her deal with Rachel then? Why does her daughter look like a young Rachel (and presumably the other clones) and why is she injured? Is she hoping that Sarah will help her? She doesn't sound like she wants to end this cloning business. And does this mean that Paul is actually shady? How is he back in the army if he did shady stuff that the Dyad had to clean up? Or was he infiltrating Dyad for the army and Dyad had nothing over him?

 

And what's the idea, Dyad wanted girls, the Army wanted boys... they were both under the umbrella of Project Leda... and then split off? When and why? And if the idea is that the Army wanted hundreds of super clones to outfit their ranks... wouldn't people notice a bunch of identical soldiers? Wouldn't the clones know they were clones, then? Would that mean Mark know he's a clone?

 

So many questions!!! I'm so confused.

 

I kept thinking Rachel poisoned the tea water but Duncan poisoned himself. Damn. But it's believable that he would have carried something to commit suicide with, considering the circumstances. That scene was great. Rachel is so hardwired to be emotionless but it's in her.

 

Sarah got choked up over an abortion she had... will we find out the circumstances of that? When did it happen? Who was the father? Only because of the whole, "she and Helena are the only fertile clones," thing.

 

Scott is freaking awesome, but I'm scared for his safety. He told Sarah to go, with Rachel right there, so she knows he's on Sarah's side now. And I'm glad Cal's legit, too. Pretty elaborate setup to get Sarah out of the operating room, only to be told, "oh, you're free to go". Rachel is off her rocker; that marrow could have helped her, no? At least Cosima has Duncan's book. However, how will she be able to do any work with it, if she can't return to Dyad... unless they all start working with Marion, I'm sure she has some amazing lab in her mansion.

 

I was so worried something would happen during that clone dance party but instead, it ended up being a nice excuse to show off their technology (which actually wasn't as good as their other clone scenes but still damn good considering it was a long scene with only two actors). I loved that song, too... thank you @Souris for the link to the BBCA video, which notes that it's called Water Prayer - Mat the Alien Remix by Adham Shaikh, which can be heard on Soundcloud.

 

Two things that I didn't find so great were: Helena leaving the apartment while Cosima and Sarah were talking (They didn't notice? Didn't care?) and the weird Delphine vision from beyond. Look, I'm sold on Cophine, OK? Stop with this silliness.

[Snarkette]

I haven't given up hope on Felix. Pollux, remember? Plus Clytemnestra.

 

I assume Paul didn't recognize Mark because he didn't know about him until he got back to active service. (Back? Wasn't he a contractor, not military? So confused.)

 

Love the little sister and hope we get to see her more. 

 

And props to Mrs. S for recognizing the Paul/Cal thermonuclear hotness.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Snarkette

[KoBnR]

BBCAmerica put up an awesome extended clone dance party video, with bits of the effects.

 

Thanks for that. Both versions put a grin on my face. Cool stuff. Did anyone pay attention to Marc's eye color? Isn't it the same as Sarah etc? So I'm assuming for now they are blood related. Glad it wasn't Felix or anyone obvious even though I think Jordan would be able to pull it off. And who knows, maybe down the road they will. Agree with those that say the actor who plays Paul wouldn't be able to pull it off. He's just very one dimentional for the most part so it wouldn't work. If they think the actor who plays Marc can do it, I have faith in them. He looks like he can from the little bits that were showed. Good episode. It's looking like this show is pulling a LOST where it starts very character based and gets more sci-fi as the show goes on. Let's just hope the ratings don't plumet. Love this show. Sestra-brotha

 

Edited June 22, 2014 by KoBnR

[Enigma X]

Calling it now: The reveal that "Leda" is out there and coming in season 4 will be next season's cliffhanger.

 

I have a feeling that Mark will be indoctrinated into clone club but not before he commits some horrible actions and redeemed. 

[CatMack]

 

Or was he infiltrating Dyad for the army and Dyad had nothing over him?

 

This is apparently what happened.  Paul was spying on LEDA for CASTOR.  He's back with CASTOR now but stuck his neck out to help save Sarah, it was personal for him.  The writers confirmed it in a post episode interview with EW.  I'm kind of surprised they made that reveal so unclear and confusing on the show and then just outright confirmed it in the interview.  I figured they were going to stretch out clarifying Paul's role and intentions, and I was annoyed by it but I figured the ambiguity was on purpose.  Them just saying it outright makes me think they were trying to make that clear in the episode itself and just failed completely, which is surprising.

 

I'm having trouble sorting my thoughts on this episode, because it's wrapped up in thoughts about the season as a whole.  I admit I feel a bit disappointed.  It was bad, I didn't hate it, and I'm very much looking forward to season 3 which they'd better announce pretty soon here.  But I think season 2 had some pacing issues, that the number of characters and plots they were juggling got away from them a bit and they didn't always find the right balance, and that culminated in a season finale that felt just a little too disjointed and slapdash to really sing for me.  There just wasn't enough momentum until the last few minutes.  If it was just another episode it would have been fine, but we're staring at a year long hiatus and I wish we'd been sent off with something a bit more tightly scripted. 

 

The acting was great as always. 

 

I will reserve judgment on adding male clones until I see how they incorporate it.  I adore Orphan Black for being so focused on women, and if they split that focus too much I will be exceedingly disappointed.  And given my pacing issues this season I have serious reservations about them adding another major storyline when they haven't really wrapped anything else up.  But I'm willing to give them a chance before I judge.  A lot of shows have a sophomore slump, they can still recover.

Edited June 22, 2014 by CatMack

[Snarkette]

 

I adore Orphan Black for being so focused on women, and if they split that focus too much I will be exceedingly disappointed.

Especially in a strong finale that focused so clearly on agency and abuse. I suspect that the male clones will never be emotionally central to the story they're telling here.

[Xazeal]

I LOVED the Mark reveal. First I thought it looked like Felix, then I expected it to be Paul, and I would've disliked both of those options. Somehow, this storyline makes Mark more interesting, and the fact that it's Mark makes the storyline itself more interesting. I love it. Love it, love it, love it.

 

Didn't expect Cosima to live, honestly. Should've seen the book coming. 

 

Really didn't expect Rachel to get a pencil to the eye. Of course she'll survive, and I think that's for the better - she's the only real villain on the show. With the multitude of different factions, competing agendas and obscure connections between them, Rachel is the only character that I know is decidedly not on the good side of things.

 

Coming to think of it, this show combines a lot of elements from some of my favorite shows. It used to have a strong Dexter resemblance, then veered more into Dark Angel territory, and this season I'm getting a very distinct Nikita vibe from just about every aspect of the show. They even have a Loft of Awesome!

[CatMack]

 

and this season I'm getting a very distinct Nikita vibe from just about every aspect of the show

 

Ha!  I've literally been comparing it to Nikita in my head for at least a month now, but not necessarily in a good way.  I adored that show for the first two seasons, then I thought it went off the rails and couldn't even watch the last season I was so annoyed with the writers.  I in no way think Orphan Black has gone totally off the rails, but I've been burned by the Nikita writers and I'm now paranoid any time I start to see even a slight dip in quality. 

 

(Don't even get me started on all the comparisons between Sean from Nikita and Paul from OB that I've been making in my head, because it will just make me sad and then ramp up my concern that I'm going to be burned by TV show writers again)

[Amethyst]

Wow, I was losing my shit during this episode.  Count me in the party that thought the male clone was Felix and that Cosima was actually dead.  Glad to be wrong on both counts, but wow, Ari Millen really has his work cut out for him if he's playing a clone.

 

That dance scene was everything.  The clone bonding moments (plus with brother Felix) were desperately needed this season.

 

Also glad that Felix wasn't poisoned by Rachel, he was just out of it.  

 

However, I wish they had killed off Rachel.  As Marian said, Rachel was just one of the many who were after the clones, so it's not like there aren't any more enemies.  After Rachel destroyed the bone marrow, I was fine with her getting a pencil in the brain.  She'll be back next season, even more pissed off.

 

I have a feeling that Paul and Mrs. S are going to hook up eventually.  I prefer him with Sarah, but Mrs. S is still awesome.  I just don't want them to kill him off.

 

I didn't see Kira as healing Cosima, but rather Cosima having a near death experience, combined with the fear of never seeing Delphine again.  At this point, Kira is basically invincible and brilliant, so adding 'healing hands' to her resume is a bit much.  I'm ok with Delphine being gone because she's done too much stupid shit.  Something tells me that when she does return (and she will, only death keeps people off this show) she'll be a badass.

[shapeshifter]

I wasn't shocked that Marc was a clone. It's not like I expected it either. It just seemed like an organic development.

If the pencil went deep enough, Rachel would be dead, and she did seem very corpse-like.

I'm guessing the folder Paul handed over is a cure for the little sestra clone, but that it might apply to Cosima too.

From EW interview:

There was a Donnie storyline that we had to cut out, but we will include the four minutes of the Alison and Donnie storyline on the DVD which will be released later.

So I guess it's not essential plot-wise but more of their weird romantic comedy thing going on.

Hrumph. Couldn't they have edited down the clone dance sequence and the opening argument to include the Donnie Alison bit?

Edited to correct sleep-typing typo.

Edited June 22, 2014 by shapeshifter

[Wonderflonium]

This show, for reals. I can't even process thoughts. Boy clones!?! Hot Paul in uniform! Dance party! Mini-clone!

While I think that the male clones were supposed to be the biggest shocker, it was the reveal of Charlotte that got me. Imagine the mindfuck of being able to look at a version of yourself as a child. And even as the only new clone out of 400 tries, clearly she is still "imperfect." I seriously can't wait to see where they go with this.

The scene with Sarah and Cosima in bed was so well done. After two season, I know I should not be blown away by the fact that they are the same person, but I still completely forget while watching.

I suspect that the male clones will never be emotionally central to the story they're telling here.

This is my feeling (hope) as well. The male clone reveal opens up the world, but this is still Sarah's story.

We mustn't forget that Helena is pregnant.

Well, we don't know that for sure. Helena essentially had IVF, which has a success rate of about 35% on any given attempt. My speculation is that Helena will not end up pregnant but Gracie will. A pregnant Helena might just be a bit too much, even for this show.

I do wish that they could have had 90 minutes, I felt like after all the build up to the showdown with Rachel and giving into Dyad, Sarah got out of it all a little too easily, even if it was orchestrated by Marion.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Wonderflonium

[bluebonnet]

There was a lot I liked about this episode.  The dance party was like the writers delivering a fangasm.  The introduction of the male clones (I theorized last week that the military was working on a super soldier program.  I was wrong in how they'd go about it {though it may still factor in the future since they now have Helena} but was totally right that the military was heavily invested in the cloning business).  Rachel's eye removal, which means she can never impersonate a clone again.  I really like the medical questioning they gave Sarah, especially when they asked about abortion.  It's like you could see her entire thought process.  When she had the abortion, she merely thought she was exercising rights to her own body.  Now the burden of that decision is so much heavier because it was never really her own body and she had no idea at the time that she was giving up what some of her sisters would have given anything to have.  

 

There was a lot of stuff I really didn't like about the episode.  I enjoy the mystery as it keeps me tuning in.  But enough is enough with some of the arcs.  It's tiresome not getting any answers from Mrs. S.  It's unbelievable that Sarah, Felix and Cal didn't ask her more questions and do more to make her fess up.  The whole Marian thing also felt completely implausible.  Kira's room was obviously being recorded but somehow Marian felt perfectly at ease entering it and telling Sarah to take Kira and also meet her the next day?  I guess the fact that she's apparently a hacker was supposed to make us believe that she rigged the recording so that she wasn't seen?  It doesn't explain how she did this all unseen by all those at DYAD who would have been guarding Kira's room.  I mean, this is an organization apparently full of people with zero morals who don't mind stuff like murder, kidnapping, cloning, slavery, coercion, forced surgical procedures, withholding treatment, etc.  I simply can't believe that Marian would put herself in Kira's room and then act like discretion was so very important.  

 

I'm also really shocked that they are still hanging out at Felix's place and with no protection.  Can't Allison's clone fund have been used to hire a couple of bodyguards, at least?  Or even to purchase some high tech GPS bracelets or something so they can keep track of one another?  I'm kinda hoping Angie is still watching the clones, or at least Allison, because she might be the only one who would know that Helena was definitely kidnapped.  

[Amethyst]

I felt like after all the build up to the showdown with Rachel and giving into Dyad, Sarah got out of it all a little too easily, even if it was orchestrated by Marion.

 

IA that the whole thing was too easy, especially with the pencil thing.  That could have gone wrong pretty fast, or ended up in Rachel's leg or something, as opposed to her eye.  But I'm glad it went down that way, because the finale last year was all about Kira, and I wasn't here for a repeat of that.  Kira ended up being a small part in the grander scheme of the episode, and I was grateful for that.

 

I also agree that while this episode was enjoyable, it didn't answer any questions, and they need to stop introducing plots and characters without any resolution for the old ones.  Yes, everything is connected, but the plot is becoming more and more convoluted.  I think the only finite stuff we got out of the finale was Duncan's death and Delphine's departure.  And even that stuff isn't concrete, because we didn't actually see Duncan die, and Delphine will probably come back.  This season was nowhere near as good as the first, and I'm hoping next year, they slow down and work with what they've got instead of introducing new characters and plots every week.  Although with the introduction of the male clones, that possibility seems unlikely.

[mrsdalgliesh]

Everyone is doing a thorough job with the analysis/critique, so I'll just mention my favorite line -- which I caught only because I had the CC on (I'm working from memory, but I'm close):

Duncan, dying, as Rachel protests: "My dear, I'm afraid you don't deserve me anymore."

Slam.

[possibilities]

I thought Mrs S traded Helena for both freedom and protection for Sarah and Kira, and that the military involvement was known to Dyad. I suppose that doesn't explain the whole operating room charade, but it's possible and even plausible that if they had told Rachel and her henchmen of the deal, she would have flipped. So they did it in a way that kept Rachel out of the loop.

 

It's interesting to me that Rachel was more merciful toward Leekie than she intended to be toward Duncan or Sarah.

 

Also, after Sarah surrendered, why were they so hostile to her? They could have questioned and examined her without quite so much harshness. She didn't cause herself to be unmonitored, she didn't cause any of the things they are upset about, and she was co-operating. But they continued to treat her with less care than Cosima or Kira. So it's not that they just treat all the clones as proprietary genetic material with zero feeling. Yes, they kidnapped Kira and were withholding treatment from Cosima, so it's not like I think they were GOOD to them, either. But the gleeful harshness toward Sarah was another layer of rancor entirely.

 

Aw, Duncan.

 

I hope Scott's OK.

 

I thought Helena left her eggs behind to help Cosima, and left to find her "boyfriend." But it's also possible she was on a mission to blow up Dyad or something, and just left her eggs so they wouldn't get hurt if she was in combat. I really hated seeing her kidnapped. I wonder, though, what happens if the military finds out she's had her eggs removed. I assume they want her for breeding purposes. But if she's got no eggs anymore because Stirrup Daddy removed them-- what then?

 

I share the desire for the show to stay female focused. I don't really want to see a dozen male clones now.

[Indi]

Welp! This show broke my brain. The finale was amazing, although I admit I didn't like a couple of things, not because of bad writing, but because of personal preference: the male clone line and Rachel possibly surviving.

I don't want the male clones to take any screentime away from the sestras. Not a single minute. I understand Tatiana must be exhausted by the time they're halfway filming a season, but she makes the show and I don't want less of her, quite the opposite.

I want Rachel dead, but unfortunately I don't think that's likely. I just don't care about her at all.
 

Hate to admit it, but as soon as Marian started talking about male clones and we cut to the military stuff, I started going "Please, don't be Paul!  Please!"  I don't consider myself a hater honestly, but I just don't think Dylan Bruce would be able to pull off multiple characters at all.

 

That was my fear, until I saw the clone's back. I thought it had to be either Paul or Mark, so I was relieved to see they chose wisely. Dylan Bruce is clearly a great guy in interviews, etc, but he has absolutely no acting chops, sadly.

My favorite parts of the episode was Helena's introduction, the following dance party and the beautiful conversation between Sarah and Cosima. I also loved that Cosima and Scott actively helped Sarah escape. What a great show!

Now comes the difficult part. The wait till 2015!

[bluebonnet]

 

I thought Helena left her eggs behind to help Cosima, and left to find her "boyfriend." But it's also possible she was on a mission to blow up Dyad or something, and just left her eggs so they wouldn't get hurt if she was in combat. I really hated seeing her kidnapped. I wonder, though, what happens if the military finds out she's had her eggs removed. I assume they want her for breeding purposes. But if she's got no eggs anymore because Stirrup Daddy removed them-- what then?

 

I really doubt Daddy Henrik removed several hundred thousand eggs from Helena.  

[OriginalCyn]

Regarding Rachel (from TVLine.com's interview with John and Graeme):

 

 

 

TVLINE | Moving on to Rachel, did she survive that pencil to the eye? Was that lethal?

MANSON | That’s a pretty nasty-looking pencil. The pencil looks like it went pretty deep. I don’t know — she was twitching on the ground there. Regardless of what Rachel’s future is, we liked some startling, horrifying yet slightly absurd kind of ending to that character and the war between Rachel and Sarah. So that’s our version of a conclusion to that. If she continues on, obviously, she’s going to be a little f—cked up, and we kind of wrecked her face a little bit. And it’s kind of nice to wreck people’s face once in a while, don’t you think? Certainly Rachel’s.

 

They're either killing her off, or they're playing coy.  Regardless, their take on her current situation is interesting.

[Valny]

I will reserve judgment on adding male clones until I see how they incorporate it.  I adore Orphan Black for being so focused on women, and if they split that focus too much I will be exceedingly disappointed.

 

  I supposed I should reserve judgment also but my initial feelings were I didn't want the clones spread to the males,wanted to keep them just the way it has been for two seasons and was cool with that. I suppose I'm just one of those folks who is stubborn to change...but of course this is what writers do. They usually switch things up to keep stuff fresh.  But we'll see how it all plays out. Add me to the list hoping it wasn't Felix in that glass cage. I kept saying to the tv, "no, no,no, not Felix."

 

I was at an OB finale party with my BFF and sister(sestra!)  so I'm just now catching up reading all of your great comments and trying to respond to some. Oh, while we were watching the ep on the couch, I had my tablet out and turned on the video camera on us watching the show,hoping there'd be some OMG moment to capture. Unfortunately, I was so into the show,I didn't think to start recording until late and  only put it on like in the last 20 minutes and damn it didn't have it recording for the pencil to the eye scene. Too bad, it would have been awesome because when that pencil landed in Rachel's eye, in unison we all said.... "Oooooh!!",(pause,then see Rachel's bloody eye)  ....eeeeewww!!" But I did get us laughing at the dance scene,mostly at Helena's crazy dancing. She should get together with Elaine Benes and have a crazy dance off!

 

The dance scene was hilarious but the speciial effect not perfect where as the scene with Cosima and Sarah was seemless. 

 

They have really been nailing hand intertwining this season!

 

 

To be honest I started to get a little teary during that scene and the scene before where Helena meets Cosima and Allison.

 

Me too, I thought it was sweet but wished we could have seen Kira meeting Auntie Cosima for the first time like they did with Helena.

 

The army camo not flattering to Paul.

  Heh, I was the opposite, I thought he looked rugged and handsome. A man in uniform and all!

 

Loved the dance seen, but you knew something bad was coming after that,

 

That's what I basically said to my sister and BFF. I looked at my watch and said, something bad has got to happen,you can't have a happy ending.

I wondered why/how they were going to keep Mark and Gracie involved.

 

  I really thought they were going to be throwaway characters after this season. I didn't really even expect them back in the finale, but Paul I did.

 

BBCAmerica put up an awesome extended clone dance party video, with bits of the effects. 

 

That was awesome,the end was cool with the creators,crew and extras dancing. fun to see. Thanks for that link @Souris.

 

After Rachel destroyed the bone marrow, I was fine with her getting a pencil in the brain.  She'll be back next season, even more pissed off.

Yes! I am counting on super pissed off,eye patch wearing Rachel.



[OriginalCyn]

Now that it's the middle of the night, I tend to start over-thinking things, and one thought that entered my mind was that during Cosima's NDE when she saw Delphine in the bright light, and Delphine said to her, "Don't be afraid....I will always be with you," it made me wonder if perhaps with Rachel's "You WILL be on that plane to to Frankfurt," she in fact killed her off, and Cosima's vision was a message from beyond.  

 

I think the show is better than that, but OB provides countless things to analyze and interpret in many different ways, and when I'm overtired and over-thinking, weird shit pops into my brain.  However remote the possibility, Rachel's come completely off the rails and is spiteful enough to do something like that, plus I could see her viewing Delphine as a liability to DYAD that is better off being eliminated -- remember, she was supposed to do that with Leekie and barely spared him because he'd raised her.  Delphine means *nothing* to her.

Edited June 22, 2014 by OriginalCyn

[Wilowy]

I can see Rachel next season being all eyepatchy, adopting Helena's accent and using her phone like a cigarette holder. 

 

I literally laughed til my stomach hurt with Helena's dancing! <3

 

I teared up when they all met Helena, seriously. And the scene with Sarah and Cosi was just... wow.

 

I don't WANT boy clones taking time away from our sestras! Certainly not ugly, creepy Mark! He makes my skin crawl! NO!

 

Oh S, give up something, will ya? Your secrets are tiresome. 

 

Don't trust Ensign Ro. At all. Baby clone is creepy, too.

 

Bye, wimpy Delphine! Unless you come back with a rocket launcher? See ya!

 

I love you Felix! And yes, I even came to like Art this season. 

 

Healing hands of Kira? Hmmm...

[romantic idiot]

Noooo. I wanted Enver Gjokaj if they ever went to male clones. Especially the writers seem to have watched Dollhouse? I'm not too impressed with AM so far. No pretty and stiff. Very broad with the creepy Prolethian, the stoic soldier and the crazy exerciser. We'll see I guess.

 

Otherwise, the finale was good enough. Paul's story was clear to me. I would like to know where Helena was going but I'm not too worried.

[vesperholly]

 

I figured Helena was off to blow up Dyad.  I don't think she was running after Jesse.

She was - she had his trucker cap in her hands and smelled it before she got bagged. There was a shot of it on the floor after the military dragged her off.

[Agent Dark]

So next season will be CASTOR vs LEDA?  Sarah and her crew vs Mark and his crew?  Or the Military vs Dyad?  In the words of a very old, little green dude.

 

"Begun, the Clone Wars have."

[yellowfred]

So, I thought the whole exchange was that the military got Helena while Marion got the guy she was keeping in the cage, with Cal and Mrs. S (and maybe Paul) serving as brokers.  Then, as sort of a side deal, Marion agreed to help Sarah and Kira escape as a good faith gesture to get Sarah to help her with whatever she needs help with.  That's my best guess, anyway.

 

The first time I watched the dance party scene, I couldn't really enjoy it, what with the overwhelming sense of impending doom, but upon rewatch, I really liked it.  Unsurprisingly, I thought she did a great job of differentiating all of their dance styles and keeping them really in character.  Also, I loved how much they seemed to be sort of responding to each other.

 

Sarah and Cosima bonding scenes have officially become my favorite thing ever, although the moment of Mrs. S correcting Cal about how to spell her name was a close second.  Also, Kira being super excited about getting a science lesson was exceedingly adorable. 

[shapeshifter]

So, I thought the whole exchange was that the military got Helena while Marion got the guy she was keeping in the cage, with Cal and Mrs. S (and maybe Paul) serving as brokers.  Then, as sort of a side deal, Marion agreed to help Sarah and Kira escape as a good faith gesture to get Sarah to help her with whatever she needs help with.  That's my best guess, anyway.

If you are correct, would that mean that the male clone's DNA has the potential to help reverse whatever degenerative illness is afflicting the young girl clone (and maybe Cosima too)? I mean, is he related to the girl clones?

When Helena was attempting to leave Felix's place to go find Jessie and get married like Allison, wasn't she taking the nitrogen-marked container with her? Did the clone-nappers take it when they took Helena?

[jaybear1701]

Now that it's the middle of the night, I tend to start over-thinking things, and one thought that entered my mind was that during Cosima's NDE when she saw Delphine in the bright light, and Delphine said to her, "Don't be afraid....I will always be with you," it made me wonder if perhaps with Rachel's "You WILL be on that plane to to Frankfurt," she in fact killed her off, and Cosima's vision was a message from beyond.  

 

That's an interesting idea! Definitely possible, especially given The Hive's penchant for shocking developments.

 

But I think that if they did kill off Delphine, they would do it onscreen. Aside from Sammy and the EuroClones (whom we didn't know and had no investment in), the show has always expressly portrayed character deaths - Olivier, Aynsley, Daniel, Leekie, Henrik, Ethan, etc. And these were all arguably "minor" characters played by guest stars, as opposed to Delphine, a main character portrayed by a series regular who is popular among a section of the Clone Club fandom and the creators themselves (Graeme has said in interviews and convention appearances that they created Delphine specifically for Evelyne Brochu).

 

So we can probably take Cosima's hallucination at face value. Like others have said, Cosima probably just really wanted to see Delphine and her subconscious accommodated her. (Though watch all this speculation be wrong in 9 months. Ha!)

 

Also, I'm glad we had confirmation that Delphine was not colluding with Rachel to kidnap Kira, and that she's sided with Cosima/Clone Club (which, in all honesty, I thought was pretty clear since 1x10 despite some of her questionable decisions). I liked that it was her e-mail to Cosima (Eskimo Pies!) that set in motion the events leading to Rachel's comeuppance. A part of me wishes she had done more to avoid going on the plane to Frankfurt, but I guess we shall what happens!

 

Edited: spelling/grammar (way too early for me to be posting!)

Edited June 22, 2014 by jaybear1701

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I felt so bad for Felix and Mrs. S saying they should have known it wasn't really Sarah at the hospital.

 

Watching the new doctor "ask" a handcuffed Sarah to sign the consent form reminded me of all the stuff we learned during mandatory human subjects training and why we have all these rules now. Of course, he was only following the letter of the law by asking her to sign so he could cover his ass, but being blackmailed into giving written consent isn't what the laws intended.

 

Poor Sarah being forced to watch Rachel talk shit about her to Kira. But ha, seeing Kira steal the nurse's phone showed me that Kira really is her mother's daughter. I was afraid that the entire room was covered in cameras and that Rachel/Dyad would know that Kira called Cal. I love that she was smart enough to hide under her blanket before calling him so now one could see.

 

I liked the segue of Siobhan asking Paul if he wanted tea while they waited and then cutting to Rachel bringing tea to Duncan. I thought it was weird that Rachel asked Duncan if he was enjoying himself while watching the home movies of him reading to her. Obviously she's in charge so that means she was making him sit in the holodeck to watch that video. "Why, yes, I'm enjoying being forced to wear scrubs and sit here watching whatever videos you've picked out for me." I was very surprised that Dyad let him carry around his little card case with his own tea. I was convinced that he was going to poison himself rather than cooperate any further. When he reminded her that he could recite pi to 6000 places and she rolled her eyes, that was a classic kid's reaction to her dad. Sad that the last interaction Sarah had with Duncan was him telling her, "Don't despair," and the next thing is Rachel telling her that he's dead.

 

I loved watching Kira and Cosima doing science together. So cute! I mean, even without the devious undertones. I also loved watching Scott and Cosima work on their related science project together. It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye! Then it's just fun! And Rachel is going to be a pirate next season! I kid, I kid. But seriously, I hope that Scott isn't tortured or killed or otherwise punished for his role in what happened.

 

When Marion said she was impressed with Sarah and her mother, I wondered if she was she talking about Mrs. S or her biological mother? She said it again later and was clearly talking about Mrs. S, which I suppose is related to Marion being Charlotte's mother. I totally agree that the person who raises you is your parent, regardless of biological ties, but on this show, it's important to distinguish since we have biological mothers (and we still know nothing about the clones' biological parents), surrogate mothers, and adoptive/foster mothers.

 

It was so sweet to see Cosima welcome Helena with open arms. Interesting that Helena mirrored both Cosima's and Alison's reactions to her. Cosima hugged her and gave her a compliment so Helena returned the hug and gave her a compliment. Alison was more reserved so Helena was polite. Loved how excited Kira was to see Helena.

 

I know that it would be way too much work for Tatiana, her double, the camera crews, and the editors, but OMG I want a clone dance party every week! Alison's initial self conscious uptight dancing and later smacking Felix's booty was awesome. Tatiana did a great job making each of them very different. I was surprised by how flaily Helena's dancing got because I expected more of what we saw during her pig tail rave dance. I guess that would have been too similar to Cosima's dancing though. Kira's grapevine with a clap was hilarious. I bet Alison knows that move from her workout DVDs or Zumba. I loved that although Felix had to invite Alison to dance, Helena got up on her own.

 

I was already sad seeing Helena sneak off from the slumber party with her eggs but damn it, I didn't want to see her get kidnapped. I knew it was the military. DAMN IT, PAUL. I wonder where she intended to go before they grabbed her. As thoughtful as it was for her to leave her embryos (which I'm sure will help cure Cosima), she couldn't have left a note explaining what this giant nitrogen canister contained? And why didn't she tell anyone she was pregnant? Was she planning to hide from her sestras for the next nine months and then just show up with a baby? On a nitpicky note, Sarah and Cosima were awake and talking when Helena left. Wouldn't they have heard that loud ass door opening and closing?

 

I'm so glad that Cosima didn't die! I was afraid several times during this episode that she was going to slip away. Was her vision of Delphine intended to be Cosima dreaming? Or was that ghost Delphine saying goodbye after the plane to Frankfurt conveniently blew up?

 

Marion said there were 400 other attempts to clone but Charlotte was the only other one that survived. I want to hear more about that. I know that usually with IVF, they implant multiple fertilized eggs because not all of them will actually result in pregnancy, so I'm curious about the pregnancies. We know that Helena and Sarah were twins carried by Amelia, but does that mean she was implanted with multiple embryos and those two were the ones that survived? Or was there only one fertilized egg that survived and it split into twins? And what about the others? Were Cosima, Alison, Tony, and the others single births or did any of the surrogates carry twins or triplets? Did Project Leda continue trying to clone after Sarah et al were born? How were there no other clones in twenty years until Charlotte was born after they successfully cloned Sarah and the others we know? I wish Sarah had asked Marion how many more clones are out there.

 

Charlotte knows that Sarah is her sister and Kira is her cousin/niece (plus Marion is working with Dyad/Topside) so I guess that makes her the new Rachel, the self aware clone. Hopefully Charlotte doesn't turn out to be a total psycho. Why didn't Sarah ask Marion what was wrong with Charlotte's leg?

 

There were tons of guards at Marion's house and they all heard her telling Sarah about Project Castor. Does that mean it's okay with Topside/Dyad that Sarah knows about the Mark clones?

 

As much as I dislike Rachel, I felt a little bad for her when Duncan died and she was crying for him not to leave her again. But I totally laughed when dying Duncan said that she didn't deserve him anymore. BURN! But ugh, what a bitch for not letting Delphine even say goodbye to Cosima before shipping her off to Frankfurt. When Rachel totally lost it in the operating room, smashing Kira's bone marrow tubes and telling Sarah to enjoy having her ovary removed, I stopped feeling sorry for her. She has lost her freaking mind. I'm sure a pencil to the eye will only improve that situation.

 

I'm so glad that Kira finally showed someone what was inside her Dr. Moreau book. Even better that she showed it to Cosima who has the best chance of cracking the code.

 

I thought it was so sweet when Mark said that he and Gracie are a team now, including her baby. But now that I know he's a clone, I'm freaking out that Project Castor wants to mate one of the male clones with Sarah or Helena's eggs to make some kind of super clone. I am going to assume that Mark doesn't know he's a clone and that he was totally sincere about wanting to be a (non-freaky) family with Gracie. It seems way too coincidental that a clone like Mark ended up with the Prolethians but I'm sticking my fingers in my ears and telling myself that it's just a coincidence for now.

 

When Marion first said, "This is Project Castor," I thought that she was going to show Sarah a clone of Paul (or possibly Felix). I have to be honest, I would find an army of Paul clones a lot hotter than a bunch of Mark clones.

 

That was Marion's house, right? So she has a special locked room with a glass door for one Mark clone? That's super creepy. I guess the crazy one at her house is the male Helena of the group.

 

Was Paul always involved with Project Castor? Because I would be really impressed if he managed to get himself hired as Beth's monitor just to get more info. Has he been feeding info about Sarah and Dyad to the military all this time? If so, A+ for acting totally surprised when Sarah told him the truth back in S1. Or was his promotion to major once he went back in due to all of his recent newfound knowledge?

 

We only have one more show, and I want all 60 minutes of it (well, it's more like 48 if you subtract commercials).

Most non-pay cable (meaning HBO/Showtime) hourlong dramas are actually a little over 40 minutes (most are about 42). The finale was 43 minutes.

 

So does anyone think that Gracie isn't carrying her daddy's baby but her dad somehow pulled a switcheroo and fertilized Helena's eggs with Mark?  I mean that would be a super-duper clone baby. 

 

 

It would be a serious doozy, but there's no way.  CreepyBigLoveRanchDude was a serious narcissist with a major god complex who wanted his own swimmers mated with the "divine" ova.  To him, Mark was nothing more than a disposable source to carry out his bidding, and he'd have squashed him like a bug without a second thought.

ITA - plus I have a difficult time imagining Big Love dude asking Mark to hand over a ziplock bag of his sperm.

 

When Helena was attempting to leave Felix's place to go find Jessie and get married like Allison, wasn't she taking the nitrogen-marked container with her? Did the clone-nappers take it when they took Helena?

No, there was a shot of Helena taking the nitrogen container out of her bag and leaving it behind in the loft.

 

What's her deal with Rachel then? Why does her daughter look like a young Rachel (and presumably the other clones)

Charlotte is another clone with the same DNA as Sarah, Alison, Cosima, Rachel, etc. which is why she looks the same as Rachel did in her home videos as a child. Marion is interested in Sarah et al because she knows that her daughter will most likely develop the same illness as Katjak Jennifer, and Cosima. Marion admitted that she's invested in Clone Club and I assume that's because she wants them to find a cure that she can use if/when Charlotte eventually gets sick.

 

so how many Girl Clones are there now (that we know of)?

13 - Sarah, Beth, Katja, Helena, Alison, Cosima, Rachel, Jennifer, Tony, Charlotte, Danielle, Aryanna, and Janika.

Edited June 22, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[HistoryGirl]

 But Marion seems to have an issue with the Army... or does she? I can't figure out what the deal is with the locked up clone, if she "rescued" him or not. What's her deal with Rachel then? Why does her daughter look like a young Rachel (and presumably the other clones) and why is she injured? Is she hoping that Sarah will help her? She doesn't sound like she wants to end this cloning business. And does this mean that Paul is actually shady? How is he back in the army if he did shady stuff that the Dyad had to clean up? Or was he infiltrating Dyad for the army and Dyad had nothing over him?

 

Charlotte is a clone. She was just created much later than the others we've already met.  That's why she looks like a young Rachel.  She's a clone and Marion is raising her. 

[Milaxx]

Oh boy, just looked up Castor, and in mythology, he is one of the twins of Castor and Pollux, whose MOTHER was LEDA.

 

 

Wheeeee!! Another mind-frak to discuss during the off-season.

So now we have Castor + Helen(a) in what looks like a war coming. Interesting.

We still don't have the answer to a ton of questions, and I for one am getting bored as more and more mysteries pile on top of one another without any answers ever being provided (and "Topside is a cabal" doesn't count as an answer, sorry). Unless I've forgotten, we never learned how Alison and Cosima found each other, Paul's role remains completely opaque, and Siobhan's involvement with Dyad and Topside and the military and Lord knew who and what else and how they relate to her acquisition of Sarah has never been explained nor, astonishingly, has Sarah ever seen fit to ask her! And let's not forget that we know nothing of how the Proletheans ever learned about the clones or got hold of Helena. Or how Alison and Cosima were adopted. And instead of enlightening us a bit, the show just piles on more bafflement: Why is mini-Tatiana crippled? Who took Helena and why were Paul and Marion involved? Why is Marion harboring a male clone? What are Art and Angie doing these days?

 

I'm completely convinced that there was no master plan beyond the first season, and now plot points are just being made up as the show goes along. But that could still work, provided the audience isn't dragged along incessantly into a deeper and deeper murk. I'm confused, and I can only imagine how confused I'll be when the show returns at a time when I'll have forgotten half of what's happened so far. That is, if I decide it's worth watching.

 

The writers said the plan was to have boy clones all along. They only decided that it would be Mark when they began writing this season. Allison & Cosima found each other through Beth Child who was working with Maggie Chen to locate all the clones first season. Paul apparently was double agen-ing Dyad for Castor. Mrs. S & Marion worked together to give Helena to Castor in exchange for Marion helping Sarah get Kira back.

In the beginning did Sarah say she had an abortion? I wonder what made her decide to have Kira then, since she ended up abandoning her too for a bit. 

 

I wonder if Sarah's going to tell the others about their little sister. 

Yes she admitted she had.  She became sexually active fairly young (14/15), I wonder if she was still a teen with the terminated pregnancy.

That's what I wondered. I was, like, "Wait, what, did Kira just heal Cosima??" That would be quite the development. For Kira's sake, I'm hoping she didn't, because God knows people want to get their hands on her now, could you imagine the hunt for her if she could heal people? I want Cosima to be healed, but I'm hoping that between Helena's embryos and Duncan's book, Cosima can figure out a cure for herself that way.

 

Clonepalooza tonight. Clone dance party! Leettle sestra! And Mark's a clone! Eee! Does he know he's a clone? Was he sent to infiltrate the Prolethians? Because quite the coincidence if he ended up there randomly. Clearly Marian has the Helena of the Mark clone club.

 

Obviously Rachel will be sporting a snazzy eye patch next season.

 

Will the clones find out that Mrs. S gave up Helena, or will they just assume she ran off? Which she did before she got snatched. (The hat seems a big clue for them that she was taken.) I wonder where she was going?

 

 

It seems like they have been hinting at Kira having special powers all season. I definitely got the impression tat she brought Cosima back to life, but that Cosima hallucinated seeing Delphine  as she was heading towards the white light. I also wonder if Charlotte isn't a little like Kira.

 

I think eventually they will find out that Mrs. S gave up Helena.

 

If you are correct, would that mean that the male clone's DNA has the potential to help reverse whatever degenerative illness is afflicting the young girl clone (and maybe Cosima too)? I mean, is he related to the girl clones?

When Helena was attempting to leave Felix's place to go find Jessie and get married like Allison, wasn't she taking the nitrogen-marked container with her? Did the clone-nappers take it when they took Helena?

Helena left the canister. The only thing she had in her had was Jesse's cap. I wasn't sure if Helena was going in search of Jesse or just being Helena and going walk about.

 

It appeared to me that clone  in Marion's house (Castor?) was a little on the crazy side like Helena. Overall awesome ep. I can't wait for season 3.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Milaxx

[lulee]

 

That was Marion's house, right? So she has a special locked room with a glass door for one Mark clone? That's super creepy. I guess the crazy one at her house is the male Helena of the group.

And there's no way he's staying in that cell...

[Sarah-phile]

So, I thought the whole exchange was that the military got Helena while Marion got the guy she was keeping in the cage, with Cal and Mrs. S (and maybe Paul) serving as brokers. Then, as sort of a side deal, Marion agreed to help Sarah and Kira escape as a good faith gesture to get Sarah to help her with whatever she needs help with. That's my best guess, anyway.

I guess that sort of makes sense, although we don't know why the military wants a female clone after all these years of focusing on male clones.

I don't find it believable that Paul was in on it all along, although from the interview that's clearly what the writers intended. I have a feeling Dylan Bruce didn't know that, which is why he seems in the dark about the clone project throughout season 1. I feel like that was the writers' sacrificing believability for shock value.

Did anyone else think it was odd that Cosima and Scott were able to build the shooting pencil device in the lab without anyone finding out? Where was Martin? And didn't Rachel think there was something odd about Kira's drawing? How did Scott know that Sarah would have time alone with Rachel? There were a lot of fortunate coincidences in that plan!!

It seems like either everyone at Dyad is in on the plan, in which case why hurt Rachel at all, or they aren't (as Marian says), in which case how are Sarah and Kira able to just walk out of Dyad?

[Wonderflonium]

It seems way too coincidental that a clone like Mark ended up with the Prolethians

I think that (within the show's mythology) there is no way that was coincidental. (I know that Mark was already a character when they decided he would be the male clone) but I think when we get a fuller story of the male clones we will see that the Proletheans knew who they were recruiting. Although I do think it's very possible that the male clones are also infertile by design, and that's why they did not use him for Helena's "babies"

We know that Helena and Sarah were twins carried by Amelia, but does that mean she was implanted with multiple embryos and those two were the ones that survived? Or was there only one fertilized egg that survived and it split into twins?

Yes, Sarah and Helena are mirror identical twins, so the same embryo that split. Considering that everyone at Dyad was surprised about Sarah & Helena, I think it's safe to assume that only one embryo was implanted per subject, the better for a full term healthy baby at the end.

So, I thought the whole exchange was that the military got Helena while Marion got the guy she was keeping in the cage, with Cal and Mrs. S (and maybe Paul) serving as brokers.

what I got for that scene was that Marion already had the guy in the cage, but couldn't prove that he was a clone. The military got Helena, Marion got info that proved that her guy actually was part of the Castor Cloning project.

How were there no other clones in twenty years until Charlotte was born after they successfully cloned Sarah and the others we know

didn't Duncan destroy the DNA and most of the information? So Dyad spent the next 20 years trying to recreate the project, failing 399 times. Finally creating Charlotte, but she seems to have some physical disability/something requiring her to wear a leg brace. Marion seemed to imply that there weren't more babies, so maybe even after Charlotte they couldn't make another. Edited June 22, 2014 by Wonderflonium

[Sarah-phile]

Ok, so rethinking this the boy clones and girl clones must be related and there is something wrong with the boy clones that Helena ( or her DNA) can help fix. And I don't think the two sets would be breeding because likely the boy clones would be sterile just like the girl clones. Also it seems like breeding clones defeats the whole purpose of a clone!

Edited June 22, 2014 by Sarah-phile

[Sakura12]

Why does her daughter look like a young Rachel (and presumably the other clones) and why is she injured? 

Charlotte's a clone like all of them only younger. She's the little seestra.

 

And didn't Rachel think there was something odd about Kira's drawing?

 

Rachel may want a child (because she can't have one) but I don't think she knows anything about children. So seeing Kira's picture wouldn't mean anything other than Kira was drawing a strange little child drawing for her mother. 

 

There was no way that male clone could be Paul, Dylan Bruce is not the greatest actor but he is ripped. That guy was not. So my thought was Felix. But I think it's better that they went with Mark. I like Felix being the normal one on the show. Now if the Mark actor can pull it off that's another story. 

 

I wonder if "Leda" is the original and if we'll get to meet her. How can they miss out in showing us a grey haired, older Tatiana.

[jaybear1701]

Did anyone else think it was odd that Cosima and Scott were able to build the shooting pencil device in the lab without anyone finding out? Where was Martin? And didn't Rachel think there was something odd about Kira's drawing? How did Scott know that Sarah would have time alone with Rachel? There were a lot of fortunate coincidences in that plan!! It seems like either everyone at Dyad is in on the plan, in which case why hurt Rachel at all, or they aren't (as Marian says), in which case how are Sarah and Kira able to just walk out of Dyad?

 

HA! I did think it was odd too, especially when Sarah, Scott, Dr. Nealon and the other medical staffers were in the room. For example, was Sarah supposed to use the fire extinguisher on Nealon? If she did, there were at least two or three other people in the room who could still subdue her and/or call for backup. As awesome as Scott is, I don't think he'd be able to overpower multiple people. So yeah it was definitely fortuitous that Rachel wanted alone time with her "sister."

 

And yeah it definitely seemed like the plan was superfluous given that Marion/Siobhan/Paul already arranged for Sarah and Kira's freedom. But only we, the viewers, knew that. Cosima, Scott and Delphine had no way of knowing about that under-the-table deal. And they probably felt they had to do something, no matter how small, to give Sarah and Kira a shot at escaping. I have to remind myself that those three characters are scientists, and not superspy/military types, so I can forgive them for maybe not thinking everything through to fruition. 

[sjohnson]

The idea that they would only try to replicate the very same clones doesn't make sense to me. If for no particular reason you want to clone people, clone somebody else. This only makes sense if the clones are not just clones (a major step in tech for when it was supposed to have been done,) but if they had some unique properties, i.e., were engineered. Which is sort of like someone inventing the atomic bomb during the Civil War, jarring anachronism. The dramatic problem is that we don't know, after two seasons, what this is all about. Beyond a certain point, for me it's like not being about anything but mindless thrills. 

 

Cosima should be dead. Chickening out is bad drama in my opinion. Having Kira heal her would be the kind of thing that gives SF a bad name, especially since it reeks of the supernatural, a huge style faux pas. 

 

I found Duncan's vicious verbal assault on someone he supposedly loved contemptible. But then, I've always seen Rachel as the most victimized of the clones. She was only the antagonist to Sarah Manning insofar as Sarah was the one who did the victimizing her entire life. Duncan's ability to hide poison and the codes was intolerably unbelievable for me. Really damaged my ability to take this at all seriously, on any level. 

 

The obligatory anti-abortion stance was jarring. 

 

A pencil in the eye does not make you fall down. The pencil entered the brain. I know the show wants to play around with feminine agency and so on, but honestly I can't help but feel the scene was pandering to a crass "Kill the bitch!" mentality.

[hardy har]

Damn, that was crazy. You guys have pretty much said everything, so I'll keep this brief.....

 

In the back of my head I always thought there had to be boy clones and when Marion was taking Sarah through the house I immediately thought that's what we'd see. Then, when she started mentioning the military I got worried we were going to have a bunch of Paul clones and got annoyed. DB seems like a truly awesome guy, but I think his acting is barely passable as Paul and the I idea of him playing multiple parts made be briefly ragey. Then, when we saw the back of the clone I thought it was Felix and was kind of disappointed. I kind of love that it turned out to be Mark and I'm interested to see what Ari Mullen does. I'm not really worried that they'll take away from the female clones. I imagine they'll mostly play a part in whatever Helena's S3 story is.

 

I legit thought Cosima was dead, but I'm so glad she's not. Her whole personality is so awesome and I feel like the show would just sort of have a cloud of bleakness over it without her around. I didn't see her whole Delphine vision as Kira healing her (I don't think I'd like adding Miracle Hands to Kira's list if skills), but I did think it was a near death experience. I'm also fully expecting Cosima to get ahold of Delphine and Scott so they can get to work on Duncan's notes away from DYAD. 

 

I really can't express how much I love the Sarah/Cosima scenes. They've all pretty much been my favorites scenes this season.

 

I actually really love the way Sarah plays Rachel, so I wouldn't mind if she was back. That being said, I was already thinking she would probably die this ep and when she smashed up the marrow I was pretty much thinking "Ok, you have to die now!" I wonder if they had to cut anything for time during Sarah's escape? They set up the whole thing in the operating room and then which was super stressful and then Marion just let her go with Kira and it really undercut the tension. Well, the official description for the eps basically flatout said she escapes too, so that may have also contributed to how I felt about it.

 

I missed Alison and was a little bummed she wasn't in more, but I don't really know what else she could've been doing to help the plot, so I get why she wasn't in much. I do hope they figure out how to incorporate her into the main plots more. I love Alison, but she was really separate from everyone else.

 

Anyway, I'm sure I'll be back later.

[lulee]

 

Did anyone else think it was odd that Cosima and Scott were able to build the shooting pencil device in the lab without anyone finding out? Where was Martin? And didn't Rachel think there was something odd about Kira's drawing? How did Scott know that Sarah would have time alone with Rachel? There were a lot of fortunate coincidences in that plan!!

Indeed. Even if we assume that Marian got guards away from Kira's room, the Sarah escape was too easy.

 

I like the way Cosima's eyes lit up when she read the notes in The Island of Dr. Moreau.

[Chaos Theory]

Helena just can't catch a break, can she?  Is there anyone who hasn't kidnapped her? 

 

Hey Cosima survived the season.  Surprising but happily so.  

 

Siobhan continues to stir the pot for very murky reasons,  

 

Evil dude clones.  That is what this show has been missing.   It makes sense now that I think about it.  It is silly to think that EvilCorp would only make one set of clones and one gender.  And honestly why chicks when dudes can fight wars and commit assassinations for you?  It makes sense that Project Castor and Project Leda were done together and for different reasons.  What are we at now?  Science/Profit vs Military  because religious extremism was just so boring.  

Edited June 22, 2014 by Chaos Theory