S01.E06: Smells Like Teen Spirit

[kj4ever]

On 2/27/2019 at 7:31 PM, Cristofle said:

I more or less am in the same place with Max. I see how it happened. I wouldn't blame Liz if she never spoke to him again, because his problems are not her problems. But she will forgive him, lol, because this is Roswell and it's Max/Liz, so eh. I guess we'll see how it happens.

I am so confused about Max and Michael! What happened? It can't be this. They were super, super close. By the time of senior year they actually seemed closer to each other than Isobel. 

The Max Michael stuff was just plain stupid.

Maybe they aren't going to have Max and Liz together in this version.  I mean it isn't based on the OG and is based on the books, so maybe they decided that Max and Liz won't get together?  It is the only thing that makes any sense.

The Tess reference pissed me off because it just reminded me of a show that was leaps and bounds above this one.

[Cristofle]

I think Max and Liz will be together. I'm still pretty sure Isobel IS being controlled when she blacks out (it's possible that whenever she gets particularly upset or frightened, AKA triggered by trauma, that it allows an opening for whoever is controlling her to take over), and Max will sacrifice something or risk something to save the day and so on. I wouldn't hold it against her if she chose not to speak to him again, lol, I just doubt that's going to be how it happens. 

So I went back and watched part of the third episode - Isobel, or whoever is controlling Isobel, definitely appears to be the same Ophiuchus. The lunch box had red spray paint in it with the "You'll never be alone" note, and the graphic Rosa and "Isobel" painted was "We are all alone."  

It is possible that Vlamis has a real-life injury, but from a show perspective, I couldn't help thinking Max and Michael have no idea how lucky they are that they must have decided Max shouldn't heal Michael. If Jesse Manes had ever seen Michael without that injury, that would have been a huge red flag. 

[Sakura12]

Max and Liz were together in the books too. I'm pretty sure the main premise of this show is the star crossed love between Max and Liz. This show has just started them out terribly and making me not want them together. Unless they are going to show they are both pathetic, Max with his obsession with a girl he never dated and doesn't really know and Liz forgiving the guy responsible for ruining her family's reputation by making her sister a murderer. 

They probably should've thought that through more. I'm sure some diehards and the people that would love Liz to forgive the hot guy because he's sad would still ship them. For me that would be a nope. Max could save her life 100 times and that still wouldn't change what he did.  I wasn't a big fan of Max and Liz on the OG show, but I didn't hate them being together like this show.

Edited March 1, 2019 by Sakura12

[Cristofle]

It would have been a better call for Max to only have been involved after the fact. It was wrong for all of them to do this, but Michael doesn't really know or care about Liz and their relationship hasn't been especially important to any iteration of Roswell. Liz could still be angry at Max for not speaking up, and justifiably so, without him doing the suggesting of the cover-up. I know Carina says it's essential to the core trio that they're co-dependent to the point of blowing other relationships apart, but she didn't need to go this far to prove it. 

On a pure logistics level, the timing of Rosa's final hours are confusing to me. Unless Max and Michael can see the future, that wasn't Max getting back to his car right after Rosa confronted him, because she needed to go up to the roof and hide his letter, hook up with the two girls who were pushing her to deal, somehow encounter Isobel, and end up in the cave. Isobel did not appear to have taken her own car there - did all four of them go there together? 

[Myrrhine]

On 2/27/2019 at 7:31 PM, Cristofle said:

I am so confused about Max and Michael! What happened? It can't be this. They were super, super close. By the time of senior year they actually seemed closer to each other than Isobel. 

Max flat out says they avoided each other because they reminded each other of the worst thing they'd ever done, but it's a lame reason, and they have had the characters lie to each other before, so maybe he's still lying? Who knows.

[AnimeMania]

Are we sure that Isobel killed Rosa and the other 2 girls. All 3 girls looked dead to me before Max and Michael arrived. I would like to know why all 4 girls were together in the desert since they all seemed to hate each other. If there was only one car that suggested they all traveled together. My only thought is that Rosa hid some drugs in that cave that she (had planned/was forced) to give to the 2 girls. The cave loved like a popular teen hangout spot.

[phoenics]

3 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Are we sure that Isobel killed Rosa and the other 2 girls. All 3 girls looked dead to me before Max and Michael arrived. I would like to know why all 4 girls were together in the desert since they all seemed to hate each other. If there was only one car that suggested they all traveled together. My only thought is that Rosa hid some drugs in that cave that she (had planned/was forced) to give to the 2 girls. The cave loved like a popular teen hangout spot.

The cave was the podsquad - I don't think it was a teen hangout - I think it's where the podsquad kept their glowing pods.  The fact that Rosa was inside says a lot - I read a theory where someone said that the Ophiuchus!Isobel killed the girls because they hurt Rosa and presented this to Rosa as some sort of "prize" like a cat killing a mouse for its owner and bringing it as a prize.  Maybe she even told Rosa she was an alien and expected Rosa to be all "cool!" but instead Rosa freaked out and Ophiuchus!Isobel killed her because "she couldn't be trusted".

[phoenics]

About Max & Liz.

I think that eventually Liz will forgive Max.  Not because what he did wasn't horrible, but because she's eventually going to put herself in his shoes and realize that if she had to choose between doing the right thing and keeping her father from being deported and possibly killed in Mexico, she might have made the same choice.  Meaning - what if it had been Rosa who killed all those girls and by doing the right thing and turning Rosa in, it would have exposed Liz's father and opened him up to be deported?  Liz was hesitant about calling the ambulance for her father when he got sick that time - so I think she'll understand the paralyzing fear that Max had - about himself, Isobel and about Michael - when he made the choice to stage things so it looked like it was a car accident.

I know there are some folks who won't care if Liz does that or whatever - for them, Max is ruined forever.  And that's fair.  I thought about - as a black woman - how I'd feel if this had been me and my sister and my family.  Inundated with racist hatred for 10 years because Max set my sister up to look like she killed herself and 2 other people because she was high.  And then living with folks hurling racist abuse at my family for 10 years because they blame the fact that we "shouldn't even be here" and "don't belong here".  And oh - I got shot because of it.

Yeah - I would be so angry I couldn't think straight.

But then, I tried to put myself in Max's shoes.  For him, there wasn't a "right" way out.  Both options would result in someone dying.  If he turned Isobel in, there wouldn't be "justice".  She wouldn't get a trial and then be convicted and then live out her life in prison.  No, instead she'd be exposed, turned over to the government and then dissected and killed.  And - through no fault of their own - so would he and Michael.

I think Liz will eventually be able to empathize with that kind of terrible, terrible choice.

Now - does that mean it wasn't awful?  No - it was awful.  His choice had terrible consequences.  Grant Green is dead because of it.  Liz got shot.  Her father was beaten to a pulp.  And now all of this stuff has churned up again.

As a diehard dreamer - am I happy about this direction?  I dunno.  After thinking about it I could see a way out for Max & Liz but it's going to take some epic forgiveness from Liz - forgiveness that can't ever really be repaid. 

I've often wondered if writers understand when they are playing with iconic characters or not.  Superman is iconic.  People react very badly when you mess with his characterization.  I think the Roswell characters reached a level of iconic status with their very fervent fandom in a way that many characters don't ever reach and I'm not completely sure the writers/showrunner understands that.  

Sometimes it feels like I'm watching TVD with aliens.

[ellieart]

19 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

In my opinion, Vlamis' hand was damaged before the series, and they worked it into the series.  (poor guy, it looks like a severe injury, or, perhaps, a kind of autoimmune thing).

What do others think?  I am curious to know.

It's a prosthetic and strictly an injury for the show.  Vlamis posted a video before they filmed the pilot showing him getting a cast done of his hand. 

[Cristofle]

I don't know how much I'd put Grant Green's death on the Pod Squad. Yes, he saw Michael levitating the girls, but Green also made his own choices to do "alien fake news" and get involved with this...whatever it is. Conspiracy? I'm unclear. But what Liz and her father have gone through was definitely the direct result of the trio's cover-up and the town turning on them after Rosa seemingly killed two girls. (I do wonder what Wyatt knows, though. Is he aware of aliens? Was he in control of himself in the previous episode? Has he laid on the blaming of Rosa, or does he really think she killed his sister?)

I don't think this condemns any of the trio for life. It was a terrible thing, but a frantic decision made by terrified teenagers who had nowhere to go. I don't think it was super well thought out - both Max and Michael were crying and freaking out. But for Liz personally, I wouldn't judge her if she didn't care about any of that, because of the consequences it's had on her life and on her family. That said, I doubt that will hold, because it's TV. 

[phoenics]

18 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

I don't know how much I'd put Grant Green's death on the Pod Squad. Yes, he saw Michael levitating the girls, but Green also made his own choices to do "alien fake news" and get involved with this...whatever it is.

My point is that by covering this up, it led to Liz eventually getting shot, which revealed Max and co as aliens to her, and then she got suspicious about Rosa and then that led her to Grant... which is why he was killed by Wyatt... it was the intersection of Liz's quest and what he knew that did it.  Without her quest intersecting with his life, he would have been fine.  And that's all on Max and Michael covering up what happened with Rosa.

They aren't responsible for his death but their actions caused a chain reaction leading up to it.  That's all I meant.

[ellieart]

No matter what they do to try to redeem Max and whatever they do to get Liz to forgive him, I'm not interested.  For the first time since Melinda Metz created these characters, I don't want to see Max and Liz together.  They've bastardized his character so badly that I just can't get past it.  It's beyond a flawed character, it's an unlikable one.

I wish that someone more capable re-imagined the books, because Carina isn't it.  She's ticked off her boxes, like she was taught to do by Julie Plec and she's amping up the melodrama way too much.  I know the OG show had its issues and kind of went off the rails at points, but compared to here, that was a masterpiece.  At least that one was enjoyable/still enjoyable to watch, it didn't take itself so seriously and knew how to have fun.  I'm struggling to give a damn about 99% of these characters or plot.

[Cristofle]

4 minutes ago, phoenics said:

My point is that by covering this up, it led to Liz eventually getting shot, which revealed Max and co as aliens to her, and then she got suspicious about Rosa and then that led her to Grant... which is why he was killed by Wyatt... it was the intersection of Liz's quest and what he knew that did it.  Without her quest intersecting with his life, he would have been fine.  And that's all on Max and Michael covering up what happened with Rosa.

They aren't responsible for his death but their actions caused a chain reaction leading up to it.  That's all I meant.

Yeah, I could see that. I still feel like I need to understand more about what Wyatt is involved in, though, and who he was...working for, being controlled by, whatever. I don't think it's Manes, unless he has a double life, since he mostly skulks around "recruiting" unsuspecting and/or unwilling people. 

[phoenics]

3 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

Yeah, I could see that. I still feel like I need to understand more about what Wyatt is involved in, though, and who he was...working for, being controlled by, whatever. I don't think it's Manes, unless he has a double life, since he mostly skulks around "recruiting" unsuspecting and/or unwilling people. 

Yeah - I guess we need to revisit that now, huh?  I now have no clue about Wyatt - unless there is another super secret govt agency?

[Cristofle]

2 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Yeah - I guess we need to revisit that now, huh?  I now have no clue about Wyatt - unless there is another super secret govt agency?

I don't know what they're going to do about Wyatt, because he killed a guy, locked a woman in a box and set it on fire, and shot a cop. Generally, that's the last time such a person sees the light of day, heh. 

I was thinking though, about Jesse Manes' description of aliens as vicious monsters who "despise freedom and love..." and thinking that sounded an awful lot like the hammer-wielding whack job in this episode. Trevor St. John remains effectively frightening when terrorizing teenagers, though. 

[phoenics]

Just now, Cristofle said:

I don't know what they're going to do about Wyatt, because he killed a guy, locked a woman in a box and set it on fire, and shot a cop. Generally, that's the last time such a person sees the light of day, heh. 

I was thinking though, about Jesse Manes' description of aliens as vicious monsters who "despise freedom and love..." and thinking that sounded an awful lot like the hammer-wielding whack job in this episode. Trevor St. John remains effectively frightening when terrorizing teenagers, though. 

Yeah - often hateful people project that hatred onto the people they target.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

The cave was the podsquad - I don't think it was a teen hangout

Can anybody confirm, I thought there was (very colorful) graffiti on the walls and garbage all over the floor and the cave didn't look that deep.

[Callaphera]

30 minutes ago, phoenics said:

My point is that by covering this up, it led to Liz eventually getting shot, which revealed Max and co as aliens to her, and then she got suspicious about Rosa and then that led her to Grant... which is why he was killed by Wyatt... it was the intersection of Liz's quest and what he knew that did it.  Without her quest intersecting with his life, he would have been fine.  And that's all on Max and Michael covering up what happened with Rosa.

They aren't responsible for his death but their actions caused a chain reaction leading up to it.  That's all I meant.

That death is completely on Liz, IMO. Alien Truther Guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time, sure, but it was Liz's actions that caused him to be shot. He saw the floating girls, he called it in and kept the video, but he also remained publicly quiet about it and thus he was safe. But this Liz gives no shits about who she hurts (case in point: Alex's view of his father) because The Story of Rosa is more important than anything. She doesn't seem to have any remorse that someone died because of her actions, all she cares about thus far is how Max wronged her.

That's not to say that she isn't justified in her anger towards Max but Liz needs to take a looong look in a mirror before she starts throwing shade. 

[phoenics]

20 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

Can anybody confirm, I thought there was (very colorful) graffiti on the walls and garbage all over the floor and the cave didn't look that deep.

The entrance is the same as the one that Max led Liz into and out of when he showed her the podchamber... but maybe there is another mine... ?

[phoenics]

15 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

That death is completely on Liz, IMO. Alien Truther Guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time, sure, but it was Liz's actions that caused him to be shot. He saw the floating girls, he called it in and kept the video, but he also remained publicly quiet about it and thus he was safe. But this Liz gives no shits about who she hurts (case in point: Alex's view of his father) because The Story of Rosa is more important than anything. She doesn't seem to have any remorse that someone died because of her actions, all she cares about thus far is how Max wronged her.

That's not to say that she isn't justified in her anger towards Max but Liz needs to take a looong look in a mirror before she starts throwing shade. 

Actually Liz is hunting what happened to her sister now that she knows whatever the standard story is was a lie.  And if Max hadn't covered it up, then she wouldn't have been hunting anything down.  That's on Max and Michael.  Not Liz.  Liz is a victim of Max and Michael's coverup.  Max and Michael are victims of Isobel's whatever.  And Isobel is a victim of ... I have no idea.  Alien DNA?  LOL.

I find I don't care about Isobel being behind all of this - unless there is something controlling her.  Her snapping because of abandonment issues doesn't move me at all.

Also - I'm not blaming Max for what happened to Grant - I'm saying the truth - which is that the coverup set in motion the events that led to Grant's death, Liz's shooting, Arturo's beating...  that's the truth.  The coverup had consequences - these are some of them.  But it's not Max's fault Grant is dead - that's on Wyatt.  But none of that would have happened had he and Michael not done the coverup.

[Primal Slayer]

Finally getting around to watching and whew! How am I supposed to root for half these characters? Especially Isabel of all characters. This new trinity of aliens are just not enjoyable. And where the hell was Maria in the flashbacks? She was supposed to be Rosa's bff yet no where to be found during the high school years. 

[methodwriter85]

Wow, I feel like I'm in the minority here in that I'm actually really enjoying it.

Quote

I've often wondered if writers understand when they are playing with iconic characters or not.  Superman is iconic.  People react very badly when you mess with his characterization.  I think the Roswell characters reached a level of iconic status with their very fervent fandom in a way that many characters don't ever reach and I'm not completely sure the writers/showrunner understands that.  

I was more of a casual fan (Buffy seasons 2 through 5 were more my jam) so I'm guess I'm not as bothered the fact that this really doesn't feel like Roswell. It's actually helped me divorce from my own memories of the OG show when I watch.

I also thought they did a pretty good job with the 2008 styling. Now that teen fashion is totally different now it kind makes the trends from the mid/late 2000's stand out more.

Edited March 2, 2019 by methodwriter85

[Primal Slayer]

40 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

Wow, I feel like I'm in the minority here in that I'm actually really enjoying it.

I was more of a casual fan (Buffy seasons 2 through 5 were more my jam) so I'm guess I'm not as bothered the fact that this really doesn't feel like Roswell. It's actually helped me divorce from my own memories of the OG show when I watch.

I also thought they did a pretty good job with the 2008 styling. Now that teen fashion is totally different now it kind makes the trends from the mid/late 2000's stand out more.

For me the biggest problem is that they are doing just about everything they can to not make the main characters likeable and it just non-stop drama drama drama. Im going to stick through the first season to see if they can reverse some of the damage they've done with the characters and relationships.

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

And where the hell was Maria in the flashbacks?

The actress had another gig—maybe because this one's future is looking shaky?

Edited March 2, 2019 by shapeshifter

[peachmangosteen]

On 3/1/2019 at 11:07 PM, methodwriter85 said:

Wow, I feel like I'm in the minority here in that I'm actually really enjoying it.

I'm with you at that table. I liked Roswell, but I was never enamored with it really. My memory is kinda fuzzy, but I believe it got really bad at one point and then it was just boring as hell. There's still time for this one to go that route though too lol.

On 3/2/2019 at 1:34 AM, shapeshifter said:

The actress had another gig—maybe because this one's future is looking shaky?

Bummer. I really enjoy this. I hope it gets a second season.

Edited March 6, 2019 by peachmangosteen

[starri]

12 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Wow, I feel like I'm in the minority here in that I'm actually really enjoying it.

We can be a party of two.

[jewel21]

46 minutes ago, starri said:

We can be a party of two.

Three.

[Aliconehead]

Four. I just think of it as a different show and stop myself from comparing.  Honestly that is how I deal with most remakes

[KittenPokerCheater]

40 minutes ago, jewel21 said:

1 hour ago, starri said:

We can be a party of two.

Three.

 Four.

[AngelKitty]

Yeah, you just can't compare. That's how I was finally able to watch Battlestar Galactica without getting angry (Starbuck is not a girl and those are not cylons).😁

It's not as hard for me with this show since I haven't read the book and evidently I don't remember too much about the original show. In fact I might have to stop reading this forum because I'm getting confused between the 3. 😵

[ellieart]

I'm a fan of the books and a huge fan of the original show, when looking at it, those versions and this one are all so very different that it's easy for me to look at each as a separate entity.  The problem is that this new one isn't really all that good and it's not doing a good job of making me interested in the characters or the things that happen to them.  I keep hoping it gets better, I would love it if it got better.  I never watched TVD/TO or PLL and so the cast is definitely not a reason I tune in.  In fact, I mostly dislike the actors they cast.  Oh well, I'm sure I'll finish out this season anyway because it's a short one.

Edited March 3, 2019 by ellieart

[Jenniferbug]

I'm enjoying the hell out of this show too, and have gotten a couple of my friends hooked on it too. I never read the books and I feel like this is so different from the original series that I don't compare it. I laughed pretty hard at the Tess name drop this episode. I hope it gets a second season!

[shapeshifter]

33 minutes ago, ellieart said:

I'm a fan of the books and a huge fan of the original show, when looking at it, those versions and this one are all so very different that it's easy for me to look at each as a separate entity.  The problem is that this new one isn't really all that good and it's not doing a good job of making me interested in the characters or the things that happen to them.  I keep hoping it gets better, I would love it if it got better.  I never watched TVD/TO or PLL and so the cast is definitely not a reason I tune in.  In fact, I mostly dislike the actors they cast.  Oh well, I'm sure I'll finish out this season anyway because it's a short one.

I too was a "fan of the books and a huge fan of the original show." The pilot of this version started out so much like the original, that I got into comparing them, even though that's really pointless now. 
Maybe this just isn't a show I would be watching if not for having been a crazy fan of the original. I watched the first few episodes of Riverdale because I was an Archie fan as a kid, but quickly realized it wasn't for me.
Or maybe I am finally just too old for the CW, or maybe the CW has changed its focus since it first took over the WB.

One other thing that's not helping: The constant mini-hiatuses between episodes.

WRT this episode: If it was written for the OG series, it seems we would have had a conclusion that gave some sense of hope for relationship repair. Instead it was like watching the antagonistic members of my own family when they/we don't pretend to get along.

Edited March 3, 2019 by shapeshifter

[ellieart]

2 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I too was a "fan of the books and a huge fan of the original show." The pilot of this version started out so much like the original, that I got into comparing them, even though that's really pointless now. 
Maybe this just isn't a show I would be watching if not for having been a crazy fan of the original. I watched the first few episodes of Riverdale because I was an Archie fan as a kid, but quickly realized it wasn't for me.
Or maybe I am finally just too old for the CW, or maybe the CW has changed its focus since it first took over the WB.

One other thing that's not helping: The constant mini-hiatuses between episodes.

It's super weird, I was intrigued by the prospect of the characters being adults this time, because I'm an adult...but I can't relate to these versions at all.  I still rewatch the original at least once a year and I STILL relate to them.  I think you might be on to something though, it might be that I'm no longer the CW demographic.  If it weren't for Supernatural still being on (though that started when it was still the WB and the characters were always adults), I don't think I'd ever bother with the network again.  There's plenty of great genre shows on other networks and platforms.

[tessaray]

-+- MOD NOTE -+-

I know it's easy for the conversation to wander, so just a reminder that we do have a dedicated thread for comparing the books, original series and this version. 

[methodwriter85]

Quote

In my opinion, Vlamis' hand was damaged before the series, and they worked it into the series.  (poor guy, it looks like a severe injury, or, perhaps, a kind of autoimmune thing).

It's just a show thing. In this interview, his hands look completely normal. I actually like that bit of character development for Michael- it shows that he's enough of a masochist that he won't get Max to fix his hand even though he could. It also probably would have raised the suspicions of Manes if he had.

I did enjoy the Malex storyline this episode. It feels like a melodramatic coming out storyline I read on Nifty Archive back in the late 90's. LOL. Now all we need for Malex is for one of them to be in the hospital with the other crying over him in his hospital bed begging him to come out of the coma.

Edited March 3, 2019 by methodwriter85

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, methodwriter85 said:

he won't get Max to fix his hand even though he could. It also probably would have raised the suspicions of Manes if he had.

Since this is fiction, and everything in the script has a reason to be there, I'm guessing Max will eventually heal Michael's hand.

[theschnauzers]

14 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I did enjoy the Malex storyline this episode. It feels like a melodramatic coming out storyline I read on Nifty Archive back in the late 90's. LOL. Now all we need for Malex is for one of them to be in the hospital with the other crying over him in his hospital bed begging him to come out of the coma.

That very storyline happened a few months ago in the German telenova “Sturm der Liebe,” and the two characters (Boris and Tobias) just got engaged on this past week’s episodes, and will be married soon. It’s that show’s first ever same sex love story, so in the telenova style they’re getting a happy ending.

i’m not comparing this series to the original, any more than I compared RDM’s reimagined Battlestar Galactica to its original. And I’ve not read the novels. As this show’s creator is maintaining a stance of not following source material beyond the premise, that’s OK by me. I suspect the show is not blindly proceeding without a roadmap, and I suspect the whole season is a pilot/setup for future seasons. In any event I just want my Max fix (Nathan Dean Parsons is dreamy in his own right) and I want to see how Michael/Alex and Alex/Kyle develop. 

Edited March 3, 2019 by theschnauzers
Typo

[peachmangosteen]

14 hours ago, ellieart said:

Oh well, I'm sure I'll finish out this season anyway because it's a short one.

How many eps are there?

14 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

One other thing that's not helping: The constant mini-hiatuses between episodes.

Has there been more than one? I only remember that one before this ep, which was like what 2 weeks? I actually think they're doing better on tv in general with the breaks. I remember a few years when like every show would have multiple, a few weeks breaks in the season and it was so annoying.

[Cristofle]

I'm generally enjoying this show, and a more adult version of these characters, but I do think centering so much on Rosa and the way they had the Pod Squad cover up her death took it a little too far, at least given that Rosa is Liz's sister. I actually find it difficult to connect to Rosa (the way I did to Lilly Kane, in the ongoing VM comparisons) but still, objectively, this was super messy. And I'd like to move beyond her death now tbh, to the larger alien world and conspiracy. I hope we get there in the next couple episodes. 

I did enjoy the flashbacks though - not sure if I said that. I enjoyed the younger, freer versions of Max and Michael in particular. But I continue to think every scene with Rosa and Liz highlights that Rosa was just really emotionally unhealthy for Liz, and maybe Liz is more stuck in that than ever because it turns out Rosa didn't die the way Liz thinks she did. 

[ellieart]

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

How many eps are there?

Has there been more than one? I only remember that one before this ep, which was like what 2 weeks? I actually think they're doing better on tv in general with the breaks. I remember a few years when like every show would have multiple, a few weeks breaks in the season and it was so annoying.

13 episodes

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

19 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

One other thing that's not helping: The constant mini-hiatuses between episodes.

Has there been more than one? I only remember that one before this ep, which was like what 2 weeks? I actually think they're doing better on tv in general with the breaks. I remember a few years when like every show would have multiple, a few weeks breaks in the season and it was so annoying.

Yes, you're right: wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell,_New_Mexico_(TV_series)#Episodes

I guess it just seemed like hiatuses between weeks, LOL.

[bettername2come]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes, you're right: wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell,_New_Mexico_(TV_series)#Episodes

I guess it just seemed like hiatuses between weeks, LOL.

Thanks for sharing this link because now I see that Shiri Appleby is directing episode 9 and I should probably go find an appropriate thread to gush about that in.

[Cristofle]

I went back and checked the pilot, because I remember thinking "Is Max drinking a GREEN shake?" at the time, and sure enough, the shake Liz made him is the same one she describes as being his favorite in this episode, down to the two cherries. Nice continuity.

[phoenics]

So - I know Isobel is clearly not herself when she kills Rosa (and the girls?), but something is bothering me.  Was Isobel having a blackout when she and Michael came to the diner to intimidate Liz?  The way Isobel was eating the jam out of the jar and looking at Liz all menacingly - she was acting just like Blackout!Isobel.

Also - is anyone else bothered by Isobel and how she mindrapes people?  That power of Tess in the OG series always bothered me and I always wondered why no one ever called it out as bad - except when a "bad alien" did it.  But here - Isobel seems to relish doing this and aside from Max going off on her for doing it to Liz (and not because it's a violation but because it impacted him) - no one seems to care.

The show had Max make such a big deal out of not making a move on Liz while she was under the influence of the "Echo", but no one talks about consent w.r.t. Isobel.

And Isobel does it with zero regard for people.  It kinda makes me dislike Isobel - and not her blackout version - her.

[ellieart]

24 minutes ago, phoenics said:

So - I know Isobel is clearly not herself when she kills Rosa (and the girls?), but something is bothering me.  Was Isobel having a blackout when she and Michael came to the diner to intimidate Liz?  The way Isobel was eating the jam out of the jar and looking at Liz all menacingly - she was acting just like Blackout!Isobel.

Also - is anyone else bothered by Isobel and how she mindrapes people?  That power of Tess in the OG series always bothered me and I always wondered why no one ever called it out as bad - except when a "bad alien" did it.  But here - Isobel seems to relish doing this and aside from Max going off on her for doing it to Liz (and not because it's a violation but because it impacted him) - no one seems to care.

The show had Max make such a big deal out of not making a move on Liz while she was under the influence of the "Echo", but no one talks about consent w.r.t. Isobel.

And Isobel does it with zero regard for people.  It kinda makes me dislike Isobel - and not her blackout version - her.

All this.  The show and the showrunner seem so hellbent on consent, until the plot/character calls for us to turn a blind eye to it.  It bothers me and it bothered me when Tess mindwarped people in the OG so often and casually without consequence.  I haven't warmed up to Isobel and this is one of the reasons why.  It paints a bad picture, especially for Max to be so for it in some cases but because it's Liz, he's against it...it doesn't work that way.

[Cristofle]

10 minutes ago, ellieart said:

All this.  The show and the showrunner seem so hellbent on consent, until the plot/character calls for us to turn a blind eye to it.  It bothers me and it bothered me when Tess mindwarped people in the OG so often and casually without consequence.  I haven't warmed up to Isobel and this is one of the reasons why.  It paints a bad picture, especially for Max to be so for it in some cases but because it's Liz, he's against it...it doesn't work that way.

Actually, I feel like the show hasn't been at all clear about what Max knows about the power and when he knew it. In this episode, Michael and Max are talking about her ability as young as 14, but a couple shows earlier, she was explaining to Max what she could do like he'd never heard it before. I thought that was weird, given how close they otherwise are. 

I agree with the larger point though. It never stopped bothering me that no one seemed concerned about consent re: Tess's abilities and what she did to Max. And here, I don't like that Isobel does it with little concern about the people she's messing with. Okay, it was mildly amusing when she got the racist to donate to an immigrant-based charity, but in general, she seems to do this with little to no regard for the people she's interfering with. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

In this episode, we learned that Max didn't know what his power was, and then discovered it when the man attacked Isobel.  Flash forward to Rosa's death, and Michael is begging Max to heal her like he'd done it before.  So the viewers don't yet know when Max figured out he could heal people too.

Michael seems to have had a decent handle on his powers by 18, and Isobel is still the mystery- it does not seem like she has done anything too terrible before what happened with Rosa and the two other girls.  And she blocked it out.

Hope we learn more about the pod squad's powers in the next episode.  More questions than answers, and not in a good kind of way.

[steelyis]

On 3/1/2019 at 5:41 AM, Sakura12 said:

They probably should've thought that through more. I'm sure some diehards and the people that would love Liz to forgive the hot guy because he's sad would still ship them. For me that would be a nope. Max could save her life 100 times and that still wouldn't change what he did.  I wasn't a big fan of Max and Liz on the OG show, but I didn't hate them being together like this show. 

After sticking with The Vampire Diaries and The Originals to the very end I've been so well trained by Julie Plec shows that if Liz did forgive Max I probably wouldn't bat an eye.

[Whodunnit]

So the episode today re-aired some of the flashback scenes from episode six and this song by Dido popped into my head:

"Dear Isobel, I hope you're well, and what you've done is right..."