S01.E06: Smells Like Teen Spirit

[tessaray]

Air date: February 26, 2019

Quote

In a series of flashbacks to 2008, secrets are uncovered about Rosa's final day, Isobel's mysterious blackouts and Alex and Michael's relationship in high school.

[bettername2come]

This is ny favorite episode so far, which makes me wonder if the show wouldn’t have fared better as a teen drama. The way the show’s picking up now actually reminds me more of Vampire Diaries’ trajectory than Roswell OG. I think Alex’s reaction to Michael being hurt was Tyler Blackburn’s best acting ever. I really felt for both of them there. And Michael was great in the scene where they found Rosa and Isabel. That scene where they set up the death scene felt like it was straight out of I Know What You Did Last Summer.

So I’m banking on guy in the deserted not being just a random perv, and instead he’s an alien who did something to Isabel that triggered the blackouts. Also, Arturo is so not Rosa’s bio dad and she knew it.

Isabel looks so much better with bangs.

[methodwriter85]

I thought Isabel and Rosa were having a lesbian relationship, but instead it looks like Isabel has some kind of additional personality? It's possible that it's an alien that is able to possess another person's body?

I thought they were going to give Tyler Blackburn moppy hair like he really did have back then. In any event, it figures that they had a Perks of Being A Wallflower ending.

Jeanine Mason really brought it tonight!

[Kareny]

Okay, so, seems like Ophiuchus is most likely a separate character possessing Isobel. (Makes sense - the “fraudulent zodiac”, the thing that’s a part of them but still on the outside. Yep, I’m with them on this one.)

Wonder if we’ve also seen them by another face... like maybe Wyatt, when he went off the rails?

Or Noah, when he was hunting for Isobel?

If Noah was Ophiuchus, that would be pretty messed up. 

Anyway, the “where is Ophiuchus” story is gearing up to have shades of Nasedo, but I’m already confident they’re going to do it better here.

The de-aging wasn’t too distracting, and they nailed it with Michael. Baby Guerin was so huggable, you really can’t blame Alex.

[Guest]

So I don't think that Max and Liz can come back from this.  That's a problem for me.

I mean I "knew" that Max and Isobel and Michael covered up Rosa's death, but I don't think I "knew".  

And my problem isn't so much with Michael and Isobel, its with Max.

I mean seriously, I want to go back to all previous episodes and tell Max to STFU.  Maybe I'll just stick to last episode...

Max., so what that Isobel and Michael wind warped Liz into leaving and you had the sads for a decade.  You felt unworthy of a goodbye for a decade?  STFU, you were unworthy.  You coldbloodedly  made a fucking decision to frame Rosa for the death of those girls.  And then you set their bodies on fire just to be sure.  And Liz is right, you made her family a target. You made a decision and you gave up the right to pine after the girl you supposedly loved from childhood and I don't want to hear about it anymore.

And I might be able to come around to Max doing something necessary to protect Isobel when there was no saving Rosa at that point.  The problem I'm having is that Max feels so entitled to his creeper pining over Liz like he's some kind of love sick victim of circumstance.

Edited February 27, 2019 by ParadoxLost

[phoenics]

I definitely think there is some kind of mind control or alien possession happening here - that person in the desert clearly did something to Isobel - maybe possessed her or he's like a parasite who can inhabit bodies?  

I still don't know - was the alien using Isobel to get close to Rosa to get close to Jim Valenti and shut down Operation Shepherd?

I feel like maybe it's a body-hopping parasite but it works best with an alien?

Max/Liz as teens were very cute - I figured Max was going to go with Liz and then she just left and he couldn't fully understand why... we know Isobel is the reason why Liz left.  But I am not sure how Liz can get past this obstacle and what Max & Michael did to save Isobel - their decision caused a lot of pain to her family.

Also - Rosa totes knew she wasn't Arturo's daughter.  Wonder when Liz's mom will blow back into town...

Also - I'm really really upset about how this show is treating Maria.  At this point we are 6 episodes in and she's been wallpapered.  Not even a "very special Maria episode" can make up for nearly erasing her from the narrative and literally taking away TWO of her canon relationships (Michael and Liz) - that's now SIX episodes with only 1 having her in real scenes.  I'm very upset about it - and cannot help think that part of the reason they cast her as black was so fans wouldn't be upset at her being wallpapered.  Well - I am upset.  I have been patient for multiple episodes now - I wouldn't be as upset if they hadn't taken her Liz friendship - I could rationalize losing the Michael relationship - but keeping her at arm's length from Liz just resulted in Maria being wallpapered.  And black women characters are constantly treated this way.  The showrunner is SOOOOOOO concerned with not doing harmful LGTBQ tropes, but she's doing very harmful racial ones.  What makes me so mad is that I KNEW this would happen.  I KNEW it.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Kareny said:

Okay, so, seems like Ophiuchus is most likely a separate character possessing Isobel.

Agree.  It felt a bit like a creepy stalker who was obsessed with Rosa.  

I kind of got a "guy" vibe.  But I'm a little alarmed that the absented Maria from the episode.  At least Maria didn't need a reason to hang out with Rosa.

[tennisgurl]

I kind of want them to keep doing flashbacks to Rosewell, the teen years, because its super entertaining, probably more so than a lot of the show has been. This is definitely their best episode so far, and it did a pretty job filling in some of the blanks of the backstory, and laying out what could happen next. On the other hand, they took the characters to so many dark places, especially with covering up Isabelle murdering three people, its kind of hard to see where it goes next.

Is Isabelle possessed, or have another personality that lives inside of her? is there some other alien that lives in her, that comes out to play sometimes? She was super creepy when she killed Rosa, it didnt look like her at all. I mean, Isabelle isnt the nicest person/alien, but I dont think she would kill her friend in cold blood. Also, they seemed to have a super intense friendship, it almost came across as Isabelle having a crush. Maybe she did?

You know who doesent have to be possessed to be scary? Alex's horrible father. What a twisted asshole he is, poor Alex, and poor Michael. High school Michael is adorable, no wonder Alex was all over that. They seemed quite cute in high school, too bad things apparently went south later on. I wonder if this lead to Alex joining the military somehow? And teenage Kyle really was a dick to Alex in high school. 

Its hard to see how Liz and Max come back from this. And its too bad, because they were pretty sweet as teens, but I dont think Liz can move past this. Or if she does, it will take awhile. 

Missed Maria. Making her more Rosa's friend was a bad move, it keeps her too separated from everything going on.

[phoenics]

15 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

So I don't think that Max and Liz can come back from this.  That's a problem for me.

I mean I "knew" that Max and Isobel and Michael covered up Rosa's death, but I don't think I "knew".  

And my problem isn't so much with Michael and Isobel, its with Max.

I mean seriously, I want to go back to all previous episodes and tell Max the STFU.  Maybe I'll just stick to last episode...

Max., so what that Isobel and Michael wind warped Liz into leaving and you had the sads for a decade.  You felt unworthy of a goodbye for a decade?  STFU, you were unworthy.  You coldbloodedly  made a fucking decision to frame Rosa for the death of those girls.  And then you set their bodies on fire just to be sure.  And Liz is right, you made her family a target. You made a decision and you gave up the right to pine after the girl you supposedly loved from childhood and I don't want to hear about it anymore.

Like - they couldn't have put one of the other girls in the driver's seat?  Hell - blame Wyatt's sister.  Max and Michael could've easily put her in the driver's seat - not Rosa.  

I'm sad - I don't know how Max/Liz can recover from this either.  I love Max/Liz as characters and as a couple - I ship them in all the books, the OG show and here - and even I can't see how Liz gets past this.  Even when/if they reveal that Isobel didn't really do it (that she was mindcontrolled or it's a split personality), how does that absolve Max/Michael for framing Rosa and causing Liz and her family so much pain?

Yes, Max felt bad and constantly watched over Liz's family and her dad and the diner while she was gone - maybe that's why he became a cop - but still ... 

Talk about an insurmountable obstacle.  The last time we saw this with Roswell - it was with FutureMax.  And the show just basically dropped it and never resolved it - they built up too much of an obstacle to overcome.  This feels like that.

[Whodunnit]

I wish that they had at least had Maria show up with her date to the prom or said she was at home with the flu or something  (If there was a scheduling conflict with the actress?). Having her not present in the episode when she is friends with Alex, Rosa, and Liz is just weird. 

Can someone please tell me what happened during the first 5 minutes? My Tivo was being a brat.

[Sakura12]

I don't see how they can come back from this without making all the parties forgive too easily. Max knowingly ruined Liz's family whole reputation in that town, and had her sister blamed of murders she did't commit. I know he was protecting his sister, but how does he think hooking up with Liz after that is a good idea. That's not something that they could believably come back from. Even if Isobel was mind warped. He wasn't being controlled when he made the decision to pin everything on Rosa.

Teen Michael and Alex were cute. However side lining the only black character does not look good writers. They should've kept Maria as Liz's friend because that would've made a lot more sense for Rosa to find a friend in mind controlled Isobel. Mind controlled Isobel looked like she had a crush on Rosa. So I wonder if the alien doing the controlling did/does too. 

They should've also kept it has a teen show because that part of their lives looked much more interesting then what we are getting now. We got the Tess mention with her being a hot girl they tried to hook Max up with. 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Sakura12

[phoenics]

8 minutes ago, Whodunnit said:

I wish that they had at least had Maria show up with her date to the prom or said she was at home with the flu or something  (If there was a scheduling conflict with the actress?). Having her not present in the episode when she is friends with Alex, Rosa, and Liz is just weird. 

Can someone please tell me what happened during the first 5 minutes? My Tivo was being a brat.

Max, Michael and Isobel as kids (not teens) are camping out in the desert (I missed if they were out there looking for stuff) and Isobel says she has to pee.  So she goes to pee and Max and Michael talk about the different powers they have.  Then they hear Isobel screaming and they run out after her and find a man dragging her away.  He seems out of his mind a bit.  Michael mind throws him away from Isobel and then the man attacks again, this time with a knife.  Max tackles him and then uses his powers and ends up killing him (it really was self defense).  Michael then buries the body with his mind powers.  That's when Isobel starts being weird and her blackouts start.

Then it comes to the present and Liz demands to know what happened to her sister and Max goes into that story.

[KittenPokerCheater]

I'm wondering if this is the last time we'll see everyone as teenagers, or if there will be more flashbacks. 

I can see how Michael would avoid Alex like the plague after what happened.  It doesn't appear that Alex did much (if anything) to help Michael out of that situation.  But I am confident Manes hauled his son and made him join the military the very next day.  

Isabel/Not-Nasedo didn't want the pod squad to break up at all.

It was a pretty good episode, but it did feel like they jammed a hell of a lot into one hour.  Wish they'd been able to tell the story over two episodes, but the industry doesn't have that kind of patience, sadly.

Shaving really helps de-age Vlamis/Parsons- it really brought out their baby faces.  The make-up was okay, but there were times when it looks like they put it on Max with a spatula and trowel. 

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I'm sad - I don't know how Max/Liz can recover from this either.  I love Max/Liz as characters and as a couple - I ship them in all the books, the OG show and here - and even I can't see how Liz gets past this.  Even when/if they reveal that Isobel didn't really do it (that she was mindcontrolled or it's a split personality), how does that absolve Max/Michael for framing Rosa and causing Liz and her family so much pain?

Yes, Max felt bad and constantly watched over Liz's family and her dad and the diner while she was gone - maybe that's why he became a cop - but still ... 

I could probably get over Max deciding to protect Isobel, even considering what it did to Liz and her family.

I just think they got nearly all the episodes leading up to this one tonally wrong to a degree that I'm not sure I can forgive Max even if Liz does.

They should have just stuck with Max being self loathing and desperate for Liz not finding out.  Can all the love from childhood, only person I can ever love, garbage.  Because that is what it is now.  Its garbage.

They made that not exist by virtue of Max leading the cover up during a time that he was as close to being with Liz as he had ever been.  But the show won't give that up so everything from here on out is going to ring false.  Everything from here on out is going to ring false....when have I said that before.... oh, when Max hooked up with Tess.  Six episodes in, got there faster than RoswellOG.

12 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Max, Michael and Isobel as kids (not teens) are camping out in the desert (I missed if they were out there looking for stuff) and Isobel says she has to pee.  So she goes to pee and Max and Michael talk about the different powers they have.  Then they hear Isobel screaming and they run out after her and find a man dragging her away.  He seems out of his mind a bit.  Michael mind throws him away from Isobel and then the man attacks again, this time with a knife.  Max tackles him and then uses his powers and ends up killing him (it really was self defense).  Michael then buries the body with his mind powers.  That's when Isobel starts being weird and her blackouts start.

Hmm.  Missed the first 10 minutes.  I wonder if one of Isobel's powers, that she is unaware of, is that she picks up the minds of those that die around her.  Alternate explanation of Rosa stopping/confronting Isobel when she was trying to mindwarp Liz at the drive in.

Maybe Isobel's powers were new or out of control and its why the guy from the desert could take control.  Or it was because it was the first time.  Or because it wasn't a regular human.  Maybe the horror of the deaths that pushed him down.  Or because Rosa is in there now.  But now something happened to trigger Isobel being taken over again.

Betting Rosa takes control of Isobel at some point and gives Liz permission to forgive Max.

Edited February 27, 2019 by ParadoxLost

[phoenics]

Trying to figure out what's really happening with Isobel is making my head hurt, lol.

And I'm sad about Max and Liz.  I don't know what choice Max had there though.  I do think the showrunner thought everyone would be looking at Max askew because he's been lying to Liz - and instead a lot of fans turned on Liz instead for not falling into his arms.  She said that surprised her.  I do think that she means Max to look rather bad here... and for Liz to look justified in her decision to turn away from him.  

But I'm a diehard Dreamer and will always want Max/Liz - so I'm here to let the show prove to me that Max is worthy of Liz.  

On one hand, I can understand Max was in a tough spot.  They had to cover up the deaths - I kinda wish they'd have buried them like they did that crazy man (alien?) but an accident makes more sense.  Then I wish they'd have not made it Rosa's fault but instead made it one of the other girls' fault, but either way it's still all bad.  It's a horrible situation.  Max did what he had to to protect his family.

I do think that Max tried really hard NOT to be close to Liz, but then she got shot and then she was suspicious of him, so he poured his heart out to get her not to think he was a murderer, etc... it snowballed on him.

I still feel badly for Max - even though if I was Liz I'd have a hard time forgiving what he did - even if it was to keep Isobel and all of them from being captured and cut up like frogs on a lab table.

[Sakura12]

Why didn't they put one of the other girls in the drivers seat? Why choose the supposed love of your life's sister. Those girls partied too, the story could've been one of them was driving Rosa's car because she was drunk and they crashed the car. 

[tennisgurl]

24 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Max knowingly ruined Liz's family whole reputation in that town, and had her sister blamed of murders she did't commit.

I mean, couldn't they have just made it a freak accident or something, or set up one of the other girls, who seemed kind of awful in the brief time we heard about them, why did they have to set up that specific thing? Why set up the sister of the girl Max was supposedly still in love with? I get that they didnt want to turn Isabel in, especially as she probably wasnt in control of her faculties, but come on guys! 

Of course, Liz was super ready to pounce all over Kyle because his dad knew Rosa, accusing him posthumously of being a perv and a killer a few episodes ago, so no one in this show really cares much about protecting the reputation of the dead loved ones of people they care about. Not that those are the same thing, as Max actually full on set Rosa up, but this is clearly a thing in Roswell for whatever reason. 

I wonder if Michael blamed Alex for what happened or Alex blamed himself, or both, and thats why they broke up and Alex joined the army?

Edited February 27, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Callaphera]

This episode was kinda... dull. It really didn't add much to what we already knew. Like, we knew that Max has been pining away for Liz since forever but they still didn't get any action. We knew that Michael and Alex were lovers and we've already seen them after banging. Half of what we saw of Rosa was from previous episodes. Basically the only new thing they gave us was a childhood camping scene were the actress playing mini!Isobel had to have a faux mole glued to her face and teen!Isobel - now with bonus bangs action! - being a bipolar murderer. They could have covered that in, like, fifteen minutes of the show? Instead of an hour?

You could practically hear the shipper hearts breaking because Max/Liz is being sunk faster than your battleship and that makes me laugh a bit because honestly, this Liz? Is a bitch who is here to destroy everyone's life in the search for the Truth about Rosa. 

4 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Why didn't they put one of the other girls in the drivers seat? Why choose the supposed love of your life's sister. Those girls partied too, the story could've been one of them was driving Rosa's car because she was drunk and they crashed the car. 

Melodrama. Max seems drawn to it like a moth to a flame. 

[Sakura12]

7 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I do think the showrunner thought everyone would be looking at Max askew because he's been lying to Liz - and instead a lot of fans turned on Liz instead for not falling into his arms. 

Is she living under a rock? Hot straight white men are forgiven for everything all the time. Look at the show You about a serial killer, fans were all over that character making excuses for him. 

I'm on team Liz she has every right to want nothing to with Max ever again. I understand he was protecting his sister. But that was his choice, he chose his family over ever having an honest relationship with Liz.

[Callaphera]

Question: What was 19 year old Rosa doing at the high school during school hours? Was she held back? Or was she there because the two girls were hoping she was still dealing and then went all weird threatening on her, like who threatens their dealer? 

[shapeshifter]

If I wasn't a die hard Roswellian from the 90s, I would've bailed as soon as Alex's dad hammered Michael's hand. Way too violent for me. They better not have any more scenes like that, or I am out. I do not do vampires, Walking Dead, or any zombies either. This is me drawing my line in the Roswell, New Mexico sand:
___________________________________________________

Plus, I also flipped out a bit at the mention of teen Max having a girlfriend named frickin Tess.
   
   

 

1 hour ago, ParadoxLost said:

So I don't think that Max and Liz can come back from this.  That's a problem for me.

The most realistic way for Max and Liz to come back from this is for Max to save Liz or her dad from a similar situation.

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

Like - they couldn't have put one of the other girls in the driver's seat?  Hell - blame Wyatt's sister.  Max and Michael could've easily put her in the driver's seat - not Rosa.  

I agree, putting Wyatt's sister in the driver's seat would've saved the Ortecho family a decade of grief and persecution, but I don't expect a teenage Max in a crisis situation and moment of panic to be able to consider future consequences of that nature. Teens are not able to think that way (at least, not human teens). Plus, Rosa was drunk, so making it look like a drunk driver accident would seem logical to a panic-stricken teen.
  

1 hour ago, Kareny said:

Okay, so, seems like Ophiuchus is most likely a separate character possessing Isobel

Ophiuchus as a possessing alien spirit? Sure. Makes sense. 

53 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Max, Michael and Isobel as kids (not teens) are camping out in the desert (I missed if they were out there looking for stuff) and Isobel says she has to pee.  So she goes to pee and Max and Michael talk about the different powers they have.  Then they hear Isobel screaming and they run out after her and find a man dragging her away.  He seems out of his mind a bit.  Michael mind throws him away from Isobel and then the man attacks again, this time with a knife.  Max tackles him and then uses his powers and ends up killing him (it really was self defense).  Michael then buries the body with his mind powers.  That's when Isobel starts being weird and her blackouts start.

The guy who attacked Isobel and dragged her off seemed pretty possessed, so I'm guessing she "caught" the possession at that point since that's when she changed (maybe because Max killed the possessed guy, but maybe not). I keep recalling that boyfriend of OG Isabel who was possessed by some hive of alien bugs.

43 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Isabel/Not-Nasedo didn't want the pod squad to break up at all.

And, yeah, "Not-Nasedo" but very Nasedo-like to want the pod squad to stay together.
And Isabel/Not-Nasedo seemed to have an attachment to Rosa, but it wasn't clear to me if it was like a possible bio-dad or more of a betrothed from Antar (home planet).

Edited February 27, 2019 by shapeshifter

[phoenics]

Welp. 

According to this, Isobel is not being controlled.  Her actions are because of the trauma she experienced with the man in the desert - question is - is the man human?  Is there nothing alien about him and he was trying to rape her and this is how she coped?  If so - then I don't trust Isobel not to freak out and kill someone else. 

Ugh!  I was really hoping for some alien-related reason - as in another alien - for all of this... guess not.  It sounds like Isobel developed a "protective personality" to keep the three of them together and protect them from outsiders.  Liz better watch her back.

Hey - was Isobel in blackout mode when she and Michael came at Liz in the diner?  Isobel sticking her finger in the jam and looking at Liz all crazy reminded me of how she was in this episode during her blackout... although Michael was nuts too, so ... 

https://ew.com/tv/2019/02/26/roswell-new-mexico-inside-flashback-episode/

[methodwriter85]

48 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Question: What was 19 year old Rosa doing at the high school during school hours? Was she held back? Or was she there because the two girls were hoping she was still dealing and then went all weird threatening on her, like who threatens their dealer? 

In t.v. high schools, it's perfectly okay and normal for adults or teen dropouts to hang out on school grounds.

No, seriously though, my high school would get rando former students who'd hang around for whatever reason. They started cracking down on that my senior year, though.

When I saw Teen Kyle, I thought, "Aww...it's Tyler Lockwood!"

Edited February 27, 2019 by methodwriter85

[AnimeMania]

So that was Max's hand print on Rosa's face, right? Even though they said it was too small to be Max's. The autopsy photo of Rosa, did it look like Rosa had been burned to a crisp?

[Grace19]

Haven't watched the episode yet, so no Maria? Guess I'll wait for next week.

[Cristofle]

4 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

So that was Max's hand print on Rosa's face, right? Even though they said it was too small to be Max's. The autopsy photo of Rosa, did it look like Rosa had been burned to a crisp?

No, it appears to have been Isobel's - she was covering Rosa's face in the exact same way as the mark was seen when Michael ran in. I'm just curious as to why Max wondered why it was "possible"

Quote

Haven't watched the episode yet, so no Maria? Guess I'll wait for next week.

Carina said the Maria actress was filming something else the week this episode was filmed. 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Cristofle

[shapeshifter]

6 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

4 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

So that was Max's hand print on Rosa's face, right? Even though they said it was too small to be Max's. The autopsy photo of Rosa, did it look like Rosa had been burned to a crisp?

No, it appears to have been Isobel's - she was covering Rosa's face in the exact same way as the mark was seen when Michael ran in. I'm just curious as to why Max wondered why it was "possible"

So maybe when Isobel is not being herself, she is channeling someone with Max-like powers?
...

8 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

Carina said the Maria actress was filming something else the week this episode was filmed. 

Ah! So that's probably why Maria has been missing in action for several episodes.

[Sakura12]

8 hours ago, phoenics said:

Welp. 

  Hide contents

According to this, Isobel is not being controlled.  Her actions are because of the trauma she experienced with the man in the desert - question is - is the man human?  Is there nothing alien about him and he was trying to rape her and this is how she coped?  If so - then I don't trust Isobel not to freak out and kill someone else. 

Ugh!  I was really hoping for some alien-related reason - as in another alien - for all of this... guess not.  It sounds like Isobel developed a "protective personality" to keep the three of them together and protect them from outsiders.  Liz better watch her back.

Hey - was Isobel in blackout mode when she and Michael came at Liz in the diner?  Isobel sticking her finger in the jam and looking at Liz all crazy reminded me of how she was in this episode during her blackout... although Michael was nuts too, so ... 

https://ew.com/tv/2019/02/26/roswell-new-mexico-inside-flashback-episode/

So they are going with Isobel's

 

pertective personality is one that is nice and friendly until you piss her off? I don't get it. She seemed to go into a trance at Prom when her personality changed. Which looks more like mind control. Or they are going for some form of Disassociative Identity Disorder where the alter has the same name. Which could be interesting to explore alien mental illnesses. 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Sakura12

[peachmangosteen]

I loved this ep. 

I have been slowly starting to like Isobel and Michael more and this ep continued that. The Michael actor was the absolute best at being a believable teen and being different from his current self. The 13 year old actor playing him was also the only one who tried to mimic the adult actor whose role they were playing. Anyway, I loved Michael in this ep. I also find Isobel more interesting and sad now and I can't wait to find out what's going on with her.

I still like Max, but he is the worst. I mean damn son! 

I'm really tired of how sidelined Maria is, but since the actress was filming something else hopefully that's the reason and she will get more to do once that's done. I'm still afraid it's just that the writers don't really care about her though.

Tyler Blackburn as an emo teenager was just about the funniest thing I've seen in awhile. So bad!

I loved the Tess mention. I loled.

Edited February 27, 2019 by peachmangosteen

[Lady Calypso]

I think the thing that is holding me back now from this show is the fact that Liz WILL forgive Max for this really shitty thing that he did, despite the fact that he deserves to be ignored by her for the rest of her life. And the worst part is that it will happen this season, so this anger being justified is going to be swept under the rug somehow.

Man, I'm sorry, but the current actors playing their characters ten years younger was all kinds of cringe. The only two that were semi-believable were Michael and maybe Isobel. 

Yeah, this flashback episode didn't need to be a full episode. I ended up looking at the time at one point, thinking that they were about to jump back into present day, only to realize we were only nineteen minutes into the episode. 

I do like Michael and I'm liking Isobel more, which is good. I'll be honest and say that I'm still not feeling Michael/Alex. I can't even explain why; I just really don't think the actors have that chemistry. It's super awkward to watch for me but I also know I'm in the minority. 

I think the best part of this episode was getting more on Isobel. She's becoming more of a favourite for me now. 

Max is such an ass. Liz had every right to tell him off like that. But again, it's going to probably get ruined when she forgives him in the next 2-6 episodes. I don't even know how they can pull that off because...Liz is right. You don't go around framing her sister just to save his own. Plus, he could have 100% framed one of the other girls if he was THAT into Liz, but he didn't. He still would have been an ass, but at least it wouldn't have harmed the actual main characters.  

The characterizations on this show are not very strong, as it seems. I'm still interested in this show, especially without knowing anything about the original series or much about the books, but I'm struggling a bit.

[kj4ever]

Emo Alex was just ridiculous, but I will say the episode wasn't as cringe-worthy as I thought it would be.

The Alex/Michael scene was actually decent until Du du du du the big bad came in and smashed Michael's hand with the hammer.  Way to over the top and totally not realistic unless that man is just the devil incarnate.

So the big love story was Max and Liz hung out at the desert for a day and talked about a road trip?  Seriously?  This makes Max look even more pathetic, which I didn't think was possible.  Liz still comes off as a self absorbed ass, but considering Max set her sister up to be a murderer she shall surpass Max in the pathetic department if they ever do get together.

[Sakura12]

11 minutes ago, kj4ever said:

So the big love story was Max and Liz hung out at the desert for a day and talked about a road trip?  Seriously? 

A road trip that Max invited himself on. I wasn't that into Max and Liz from the beginning  but they have managed to  not give me any reason for me to root for this couple in the future. Max's obessison is pathetic boarding on creepy on top of making her family a target and getting her sister blamed for murder. Liz forgiving him would make her pathetic, that's not something that can just be wiped under the rug because love. 

Protecting ones sister is understandable, blaming the crime on an innocent is not. Being a dumb teenager is not an excuse, they planned and planted the evidence to make it look like it was Rosa's fault. 

[steelyis]

12 hours ago, phoenics said:

And black women characters are constantly treated this way.  The showrunner is SOOOOOOO concerned with not doing harmful LGTBQ tropes, but she's doing very harmful racial ones.  What makes me so mad is that I KNEW this would happen.  I KNEW it.

I expected nothing better from Julie Plec.

12 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

You know who doesent have to be possessed to be scary? Alex's horrible father.

I'm sure Trevor St. John is a nice person, but goddamn does he know how to play psychotic creeps.

11 hours ago, phoenics said:

Welp. 

  Reveal spoiler

According to this, Isobel is not being controlled.  Her actions are because of the trauma she experienced with the man in the desert - question is - is the man human?  Is there nothing alien about him and he was trying to rape her and this is how she coped?  If so - then I don't trust Isobel not to freak out and kill someone else. 

Ugh!  I was really hoping for some alien-related reason - as in another alien - for all of this... guess not.  It sounds like Isobel developed a "protective personality" to keep the three of them together and protect them from outsiders.  Liz better watch her back.

Hey - was Isobel in blackout mode when she and Michael came at Liz in the diner?  Isobel sticking her finger in the jam and looking at Liz all crazy reminded me of how she was in this episode during her blackout... although Michael was nuts too, so ... 

https://ew.com/tv/2019/02/26/roswell-new-mexico-inside-flashback-episode/

That's... a somewhat disappointing and boring motivation for a character to have on a genre show about aliens with superpowers. Yay for edgy realism, I guess?

[AnimeMania]

4 hours ago, Cristofle said:

8 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

So that was Max's hand print on Rosa's face, right? Even though they said it was too small to be Max's. The autopsy photo of Rosa, did it look like Rosa had been burned to a crisp?

No, it appears to have been Isobel's - she was covering Rosa's face in the exact same way as the mark was seen when Michael ran in. I'm just curious as to why Max wondered why it was "possible"

Didn't Max put his hand on Rosa's face at that exact position and try to bring her back to life?

[Katsullivan]

13 hours ago, phoenics said:

cannot help think that part of the reason they cast her as black was so fans wouldn't be upset at her being wallpapered.

Tilt it a bit sideways - they cast the character they had deemed useless with a black actor because in Plec et al's minds, it makes sense for irrelevant characters to be black.

Or turn it around - they cast a black actor to play the part ---- and suddenly realized that the character was redundant. 

[tennisgurl]

13 hours ago, phoenics said:

Welp. 

  Hide contents

According to this, Isobel is not being controlled.  Her actions are because of the trauma she experienced with the man in the desert - question is - is the man human?  Is there nothing alien about him and he was trying to rape her and this is how she coped?  If so - then I don't trust Isobel not to freak out and kill someone else. 

Ugh!  I was really hoping for some alien-related reason - as in another alien - for all of this... guess not.  It sounds like Isobel developed a "protective personality" to keep the three of them together and protect them from outsiders.  Liz better watch her back.

Oh...do no like that...nothing in there that I want...

[KittenPokerCheater]

Also, how is it that dark Isobel hand the glory hand powers?  Or does it mean that they all have it?  And it's not logical if trauma brings it out in them, because sure as hell Michael would have the glowy hand powers after getting his hand crushed.  It made me me gasp even though I knew it was a fictional tv show.

Also, to nitpick:  Liz knew that Michael had a "broken" (understandment) hand, but if it happened the same night Rosa was killed, how would she know it happened already?

Trevor St. John is doing an awesome job being so monstrous.  I hope he survives the season and sticks around because he is a pretty compelling character and a terrific villain.

[ellieart]

Re: their powers

It seems like even now they don't fully know what they're capable of.  Maybe they all do have the ability to leave a handprint, but Max is the only one whose powers typically involve using his hands and so it's only been noticeable coming from him.  So of course it would be shocking to him to see the autopsy photos and see that Isobel left a print, as far as he knows, her powers are more mental.  I don't think we can rule out that they can all do things outside of their "specialty."

Re: Maria

I don't care that the actress had a prior commitment, that doesn't change the way Maria's been depicted or not depicted.  She's an afterthought, she's only there when they need to boost the narrative of the other characters.

[kj4ever]

4 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

Tilt it a bit sideways - they cast the character they had deemed useless with a black actor because in Plec et al's minds, it makes sense for irrelevant characters to be black.

Or turn it around - they cast a black actor to play the part ---- and suddenly realized that the character was redundant. 

Whatever the reason, and with Plec's reputation my mind goes to your sideways theory, it is even more unfortunate because the actress playing Maria is in my opinion the best actor on the show.

How much older are Maria and Rosa supposed to be?  I think Maria was Rosa's friend and friends with Liz because they were sisters?

Edited February 27, 2019 by kj4ever

[methodwriter85]

Rosa was 19 when she died (her orbit line is January 17, 1989 to June 1, 2008) but it's to be assumed that Maria was in the class of 2008 Max and Liz, which carries with it a late 1989/1990 birthdate. I mean, why else was she at the 2008 class reunion?

[ellieart]

22 minutes ago, kj4ever said:

Whatever the reason, and with Plec's reputation my mind goes to your sideways theory, it is even more unfortunate because the actress playing Maria is in my opinion the best actor on the show.

How much older are Maria and Rosa supposed to be?  I think Maria was Rosa's friend and friends with Liz because they were sisters?

It was mentioned by Carina some time back that Maria is the same age as Liz and company, but because Liz was always falling asleep early at sleepovers and such, Maria would sneak out and hang out with Rosa instead.

[Myrrhine]

On 2/26/2019 at 9:38 PM, phoenics said:

I definitely think there is some kind of mind control or alien possession happening here - that person in the desert clearly did something to Isobel - maybe possessed her or he's like a parasite who can inhabit bodies?  

I still don't know - was the alien using Isobel to get close to Rosa to get close to Jim Valenti and shut down Operation Shepherd?

I feel like maybe it's a body-hopping parasite but it works best with an alien?

I feel like they barely showed Isabel's attacker, so I didn't assume that he was alien-involved. But I think it makes the most sense that she was taken over by an alien mind, or that she has developed a completely separate alien personality. Her Rosa-loving persona had this wide-eyed, staring expression and seemed to not remember what had happened when she was regular-Isabel. Not to mention identified with the stars. I was kind of expecting that Rosa and Ophiocus/Not-Isabel were in more of a relationship after learning about Rosa's letter.

Speaking of which, I found it kind of creepy to see Faux-teen Isabel interacting with Rosa who we only see as a younger/teen character.

On 2/26/2019 at 9:45 PM, phoenics said:

Like - they couldn't have put one of the other girls in the driver's seat?  Hell - blame Wyatt's sister.  Max and Michael could've easily put her in the driver's seat - not Rosa.  

I'm sad - I don't know how Max/Liz can recover from this either.  I love Max/Liz as characters and as a couple - I ship them in all the books, the OG show and here - and even I can't see how Liz gets past this.  Even when/if they reveal that Isobel didn't really do it (that she was mindcontrolled or it's a split personality), how does that absolve Max/Michael for framing Rosa and causing Liz and her family so much pain?

Yes, Max felt bad and constantly watched over Liz's family and her dad and the diner while she was gone - maybe that's why he became a cop - but still ... 

Talk about an insurmountable obstacle.  The last time we saw this with Roswell - it was with FutureMax.  And the show just basically dropped it and never resolved it - they built up too much of an obstacle to overcome.  This feels like that.

I have some sympathy for Max in that they were all freaking out, knew Rosa was under the influence, were hysterical and exhausted from trying to bring back Rosa, and just trying to figure it out. I don't necessarily blame him for not anticipating that all of the surviving Ortechos would be vilified and despised forever as a result, even if he did realize it would tarnish Rosa's memory. And then once it's done, the Isabel that committed the murders (apparently) seemed to be gone for good, and if she's turned in for killing the girls, she will be discovered to be an alien and end up vivisected, along with Max and Michael. 

That said, I wouldn't at all blame Liz for never forgiving him. I assume he will just eventually save everyone she loves enough times that she gets over it? 

I am underwhelmed at the whole Isabel/3 deaths debacle being the excuse for Michael and Max never speaking for a decade. Maybe if they had disagreed about things, or blamed each other for what happened? Also, again, this incident occurred and then there were no developments for ten years.

I did like this episode a lot though, because we got some answers even if many questions still remain. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by Myrrhine

[KittenPokerCheater]

39 minutes ago, Myrrhine said:

I am underwhelmed at the whole Isabel/3 deaths debacle being the excuse for Michael and Max never speaking for a decade.

Yes yes yes!  I whole-heartedly agree.

[peachmangosteen]

6 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Didn't Max put his hand on Rosa's face at that exact position and try to bring her back to life?

I thought he put his hand on her chest, but I admittedly wasn't paying that close of attention lol.

[Callaphera]

1 hour ago, ellieart said:

It was mentioned by Carina some time back that Maria is the same age as Liz and company, but because Liz was always falling asleep early at sleepovers and such, Maria would sneak out and hang out with Rosa instead.

So I had to Google who Carina is (a/the writer of the show?) which... isn't this something that should be explained in the show? If it's causing confusion - and I also wondered about the age difference and how Maria and Rosa knew each other if Maria and Liz were high school friends - it should be part of the episode(s). Having to clarify or clean stuff up in interviews with showrunners and writers is kinda sloppy. 

I know! It probably seems like I don't like the show, but I do. Maybe not for the same reasons other people like it but things like this annoy me no matter the show. I shouldn't have to hunt down interviews with people who work on the show to get questions answered. Maybe it's just me but it seems lazy. "Oh, you didn't understand? Well you should Google and sit through this Youtube video and how silly of you! I thought it was obvious!"

[ellieart]

12 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

So I had to Google who Carina is (a/the writer of the show?) which... isn't this something that should be explained in the show? If it's causing confusion - and I also wondered about the age difference and how Maria and Rosa knew each other if Maria and Liz were high school friends - it should be part of the episode(s). Having to clarify or clean stuff up in interviews with showrunners and writers is kinda sloppy. 

I know! It probably seems like I don't like the show, but I do. Maybe not for the same reasons other people like it but things like this annoy me no matter the show. I shouldn't have to hunt down interviews with people who work on the show to get questions answered. Maybe it's just me but it seems lazy. "Oh, you didn't understand? Well you should Google and sit through this Youtube video and how silly of you! I thought it was obvious!"

Sorry, yes, Carina Adly MacKenzie...the showrunner and one of the writers.  I honestly think the way she's done this show is sloppy in general.  Her choices with it is actually causing me to struggle liking it.  Because the way it's written, it truly does seem like Maria was solely Rosa's friend and Liz was just there.  Nothing about Liz and Maria screams former best friends in any way at all.  Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.

[lala2]

18 hours ago, Callaphera said:

You could practically hear the shipper hearts breaking because Max/Liz is being sunk faster than your battleship and that makes me laugh a bit because honestly, this Liz? Is a bitch who is here to destroy everyone's life in the search for the Truth about Rosa.

OMG! I could not agree more with you about Liz. From reading the comments on this episode, I honestly thought I was going to be the odd one out here when it comes to Liz. I literally cannot stand this Liz or this version of Max/Liz.  I understand Liz is upset about her sister's death, but I just don't know . . . . the character is not at all sympathetic to me. I find her very annoying, and it's not at all clear to me why Max is still hung up on her after all these years. I don't care for Rosa or Liz. LOL! 

I also see no chemistry btw this Max and Liz. I don't even like this Max. He's overly emotional and seems to have no control over his powers. But I also agree that I'm not sure how Max/Liz are going to move past what he did.  As many have mentioned, they could have put someone else in the drivers' seat.  Why choose Rosa? Whatever.

I missed about 30 minutes of this episode last night b/c I thought this show went on a mini-hiatus like The Flash, but the parts I did see re-confirmed my belief that the concept of this show works better w/teens than ppl in their late 20s. I think these characters should be in HS. 

And as a black woman, I think what's been done to Maria is a travesty. She may as well not even be on the show. Why did they make her Rosa's friend? What was the point of that? 

[Cristofle]

3 hours ago, Myrrhine said:

I have some sympathy for Max in that they were all freaking out, knew Rosa was under the influence, were hysterical and exhausted from trying to bring back Rosa, and just trying to figure it out. I don't necessarily blame him for not anticipating that all of the surviving Ortechos would be vilified and despised forever as a result, even if he did realize it would tarnish Rosa's memory. And then once it's done, the Isabel that committed the murders (apparently) seemed to be gone for good, and if she's turned in for killing the girls, she will be discovered to be an alien and end up vivisected, along with Max and Michael. 

That said, I wouldn't at all blame Liz for never forgiving him. I assume he will just eventually save everyone she loves enough times that she gets over it? 

I am underwhelmed at the whole Isabel/3 deaths debacle being the excuse for Michael and Max never speaking for a decade. Maybe if they had disagreed about things, or blamed each other for what happened? Also, again, this incident occurred and then there were no developments for ten years.

I did like this episode a lot thought, because we got some answers even if many questions still remain. 

I more or less am in the same place with Max. I see how it happened. I wouldn't blame Liz if she never spoke to him again, because his problems are not her problems. But she will forgive him, lol, because this is Roswell and it's Max/Liz, so eh. I guess we'll see how it happens.

I am so confused about Max and Michael! What happened? It can't be this. They were super, super close. By the time of senior year they actually seemed closer to each other than Isobel. 

[shapeshifter]

We're sure Michael Vlamis (Michael Guerin) does not have a damaged hand in real life, right? 

[KittenPokerCheater]

In my opinion, Vlamis' hand was damaged before the series, and they worked it into the series.  (poor guy, it looks like a severe injury, or, perhaps, a kind of autoimmune thing).

What do others think?  I am curious to know.