S01.E04: Where Have All the Cowboys Gone?

[tessaray]

 Air date: February 5, 2019

Quote

Fearing that his identity will be uncovered, Max (Nathan Dean Parsons) is conflicted when a town-wide power outage leaves patients at the hospital in need of help. Meanwhile, Liz (Jeanine Mason) turns to Kyle (Michael Trevino) after learning details about the night Rosa died. Elsewhere, Isobel (Lily Cowles) and Michael (Michael Vlamis) come up with a plan to deal with Liz, and Master Sargent Manes (Trevor St. John) seeks help from an unlikely source.

 

[Scarlett45]

Watching about 30min behind schedule but the actress they hired to play Rosa does look like she could be Jeanne Mason’s sister!

[shapeshifter]

So Maria is good at her fortune telling. She should be working as a detective.

Who's is Christopher or Charles or whateverhisname was that Evil Mr. Manes Sr. threatened Max's partner about?

[Primal Slayer]

This is the best episode thus far! I was fairly into it, Isabel was enjoyable, we got see her dynamic with Maria and Rosa, and the trio's scenes were finally good. But how are we supposed to be rooting for these aliens if they be killing people? 

Though this show makes it hard to root for who I feel like we're supposed to be rooting for. I just have zero interest in Max/Liz, their drama just isnt worth it and I like them with their fellow friends with benefits. 

This show is just BAM!Drama!BAM!Drama!BAM!Drama! which can be exhausting.

[Sakura12]

Am I supposed to want Max and Liz together? Because I really don't so far. Max is all creepy and pathetic around her and Liz seems way more interested in finding out what happened to her sister then she is in him. So Michael killed the girls that Rosa is being blamed for. That doesn't endear me to him either. Is their powers hurting them from the books? Because they didn't seem to haven any issues using their powers in the OG show. 

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

the actress they hired to play Rosa does look like she could be Jeanne Mason’s sister!

She does, it's weird for me since I'm used to the actress on Legion where she just beats everyone up all the time.  Lol

They are really making Manes one dimensional evil aren't they. He just decided to look into Cameron's past and found some guy that needs help so he can get her to work for him. Maybe he should try asking first before reverting to blackmail. 

I'm going to have to listen to a 90's playlist with these episode titles. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Sakura12

[phoenics]

I have a lot of thoughts about tonight's episode - but I'm kinda exhausted from it - so hard to pin down what I'm thinking.  I have two immediate thoughts I can process:

1)  The lights came back on with the same formation as Max's alien tattoo.

2)  Michael and Maria have chemistry.  Awesome - hate/fun chemistry.  The kind where you can easily see them having hate-fun-sex.  Michael Vlamis' Michael is playing his chemistry differently with Maria than he plays it with Alex.  With Alex it's angsty, searing, etc.  With Maria it's definitely more playful - like Michael likes his back and forth banter with her (and enjoys provoking her to get her to react to him).  I don't think I've seen Michael look that "light" since this show began, tbh.

That's all I can properly process at the moment.

Oh wait - one more thing:  Michael killed the two girls?  I'm at a loss.

Edited February 6, 2019 by phoenics

[KittenPokerCheater]

I'm 100% confident that Michael did not murder the girls, but he feels responsible for their deaths.  Part of me misses that Alex wasn't there tonight, and the other part of me is now interested in Michael and Maria.

Liz annoyed the hell out of me this episode.

I think there might have been a 4th alien in the mix that night, or/and Kyle's Father was involved in what happened.  Either way I hope we find out well before the last episode of the season because all of this "I Know What You Did Last Decade" is starting to wear.

For me, this episode seemed to be an info dump to set up for next week's episode.

[Whodunnit]

I think Rosa must've found out that Isobel was an alien  (probably from the sheriff) and that's why she got the stink eye? I dunno, but I guess we'll find out next episode.

I mean, if he was her secret boyfriend then he probably filled her head with anti-alien sentiment.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Whodunnit

[phoenics]

3 minutes ago, Whodunnit said:

I think Rosa must've found out that Isobel was an alien  (probably from the sheriff) and that's why she got the stink eye? I dunno, but I guess we'll find out next episode.

I mean, if he was her secret boyfriend then he probably filled her head with anti-alien sentiment.

Maybe she knew all of them were aliens - which is why she shoved Max away and didn't want Liz with him.  

[phoenics]

I have another thought that finally processed.

I'm beginning to wonder what Isabel might have done to Liz when she mindwiped her or influenced her or whatever.  Did she plant fear?  Because Liz moving 14 times in 10 years sounds ... insane.  But since Rosa died - she's literally moved FOURTEEN times in TEN years!  I mean I know her mom left too 10 years ago - but something is off.  These "walls" Liz keeps mentioning - are they 100% of her own making or did Isabel help this along?  I'm struggling with her moving so much in such a short period of time.

And who is Grant Green??!  Michael mentioned him - did I miss something?  Who is that?

I do feel badly for Max finding out Liz told Kyle.  Also Max does NOT know that Isabel mindwiped Liz 10 years ago.  

[Emily Thrace]

58 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I have a lot of thoughts about tonight's episode - but I'm kinda exhausted from it - so hard to pin down what I'm thinking.  I have two immediate thoughts I can process:

1)  The lights came back on with the same formation as Max's alien tattoo.

2)  Michael and Maria have chemistry.  Awesome - hate/fun chemistry.  The kind where you can easily see them having hate-fun-sex.  Michael Vlamis' Michael is playing his chemistry differently with Maria than he plays it with Alex.  With Alex it's angsty, searing, etc.  With Maria it's definitely more playful - like Michael likes his back and forth banter with her (and enjoys provoking her to get her to react to him).  I don't think I've seen Michael look that "light" since this show began, tbh.

That's all I can properly process at the moment.

Oh wait - one more thing:  Michael killed the two girls?  I'm at a loss.

Yeah I liked the new Candy chemistry. I suspect Alex and Michael suffer from the same problem of a lot of tv gay couples, the one or both actors who portray them are straight. Its hard to convey real organic chemistry when you simply are not naturally attracted to someone. 

I suspect Michael feels responsible for what happened to Rosa but it will turn out to be someone else. I wonder if there is a fourth CV alien in the mix. In the books they had Michael's brother show up but I think if that was who killed Rosa the trio would have mentioned it. If only in a aside about Rosa costing Michael his brother.

[phoenics]

12 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

Yeah I liked the new Candy chemistry. I suspect Alex and Michael suffer from the same problem of a lot of tv gay couples, the one or both actors who portray them are straight. Its hard to convey real organic chemistry when you simply are not naturally attracted to someone. 

 

To clarify - I think Michael and Alex have a lot of chemistry - it's just the angsty, "look into my eyes" kind and it's complicated because Michael is clearly way more into Alex (or ready to really be with him) than Alex is (who seems to look for excuses to leave Michael).  But - Malex is hot.  That scene where Alex dragged his thumb across Michael's mouth and Michael reacted - dayum.

But it's a different - more painful angsty chemistry than what I saw between Michael and Maria - which just seemed lighter, etc..  more flirty... Heather Hemmon's Maria really brought it in that scene too - she didn't hold back.  Neither did Vlamis' Michael - but it's just a different kind of chemistry.  

I like that the show differentiates this - should be interesting to see where this goes.

 

12 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

I suspect Michael feels responsible for what happened to Rosa but it will turn out to be someone else. I wonder if there is a fourth CV alien in the mix. In the books they had Michael's brother show up but I think if that was who killed Rosa the trio would have mentioned it. If only in a aside about Rosa costing Michael his brother.

In the books there are 4 additional aliens to the original podsquad, so there are tons of options here for more aliens.  I do think Michael could have meant that he was responsible for those girls dying - maybe he had an outburst and it killed them?

I do feel like there had to be another alien who killed Rosa - because Michael wasn't taking responsibility for what happened to her.  I wonder if that alien was trying to protect the podsquad somehow and did stuff and the podsquad don't know all the details?  Michael also said that they made a deal about that night - that they never ask questions.

Edited February 6, 2019 by phoenics

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

Did she plant fear?  Because Liz moving 14 times in 10 years sounds ... insane. 

Not that weird, in you are in college, undergrad in a dorm, you would move to a new dorm room every year. If you don't attend school during the summer break you will have to move to temporary housing until school starts again. I did this as an undergrad and think I moved 9 times in 4 years (not very far, mostly different rooms on or near the Campus). She probably also went to graduate school and said she switched schools once. Then she had to move to go to work. Maybe she moved in with her boyfriend. That could easily equal 14 or more.

[Whodunnit]

For a single person to move 14 times in 10 years? I can believe it.

My grandfather went where the jobs were: I believe my father moved to a new city and a new school every year growing up. (He hated it.)

[Cristofle]

Overall good episode, definitely learned some things.

So Michael at least feels like he killed those girls. I doubt he actually did - I still think another alien was involved - but it explains why Isobel and Max have reacted the way they have. Michael's "thank you" to Max was maybe the first time I felt a real bond between them. Still, these three clearly keep secrets from each other as well as the rest of the world, given that Max has no idea Isobel has gotten into Liz's mind before. Michael said they agreed "never to talk about that night". I wonder how much they individually know. 

I'm interested as to why Isobel seems so confused about why Rosa didn't like her/had some issue with her. In the flashes in Liz's mind, Rosa asked "Why are you doing this? I thought we were friends." So I assumed whatever happened, happened face to face, but maybe not. 

I wasn't that moved by Kyle and Liz's "So you think my dad might have been banging your sister? Let's jump into bed" moment, but I overall liked Kyle in this episode. I think he has seen another side of Max, and I doubt he'll give up his secret that easily. Still, I don't really think it matters if Liz hasn't actually told Kyle about Michael and Isobel and I'm not sure why Max even bothered to ask. If Max is an alien, likely the other two children found wandering naked in the desert with him are as well. I don't blame Liz for telling Kyle, but I also don't blame Max for being upset that she did, and I'm glad this show didn't skip over that step because often, the OG show did. 

Poor Cam, lol. First Max blew her off, now she's being used by Jesse Manes. 

Did Liz say she moved 14 times or to 14 cities? I thought I heard the latter, but that seems super unlikely with college/grad school. I wonder how she even found the time to get engaged, lol. 

It makes me uncomfortable to say this, but man, Rosa was NOT good for Liz. What a super weird, creepy, emotionally unhealthy "pep talk". 

[steelyis]

Liz declaring Kyle's dad was in a sexual relationship with Rosa because of a 13 word post-it was a giant, "WTF! How did you Hulk jump to that conclusion, lady?"

Knowing how her family was treated after Rosa supposedly killed those two girls, it doesn't make Liz look super great pulling the same shit on Kyle. It looked like she was about to kill him for something his father might have done.

Isobel has good foe yay with Maria. So does Micheal. It felt like Isobel and Micheal had long, sorted histories with Maria. I think Lily Cowles and Michael Vlamis gave their best performances to date acting opposite Heather Hemmens.

The telepathic invasion brought back some bad memories, so I wasn't crazy about that.

Max's meltdown in the hospital was terrible. Nathan Parsons completely whiffed that scene, in every sense of the word. It would have been better if he decided to repair the hospital's power and never said a word.

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

7 HOURS AGO, PHOENICS SAID:

Did she plant fear? Because Liz moving 14 times in 10 years sounds ... insane. 

Not that weird, in you are in college, undergrad in a dorm, you would move to a new dorm room every year. If you don't attend school during the summer break you will have to move to temporary housing until school starts again. I did this as an undergrad and think I moved 9 times in 4 years (not very far, mostly different rooms on or near the Campus). She probably also went to graduate school and said she switched schools once. Then she had to move to go to work. Maybe she moved in with her boyfriend. That could easily equal 14 or more.

There are lots of reasons to move, but the reason moving 14 times in 10 years is a potential indication of Liz being motivated by Isobel's initial leaving-town-mindwarp is because Liz herself says it's crazy. IIRC, in the same breath she says she breaks up with every guy too. So it seems either the mindwarp is the cause, or losing her mom and sister are, or maybe it's a combination of the two.

 

1 hour ago, Cristofle said:

Poor Cam, lol. First Max blew her off, now she's being used by Jesse Manes

So far her name might as well be Unfortunate Plot Point. And yet I think she may be the best actor.

 

1 hour ago, Cristofle said:

It makes me uncomfortable say this, but man, Rosa was NOT good for Liz. What a super weird, creepy, emotionally unhealthy "pep talk"

Seriously! No wonder the town was willing to think the worst of her. But I think we were supposed to read it as Poor Disturbed Rosa.

31 minutes ago, steelyis said:

Liz declaring Kyle's dad was in a sexual relationship with Rosa because of a 13 word post-it was a giant, "WTF! How did you Hulk jump to that conclusion, lady?"

Yes, except Rosa's old boyfriend planted the idea in Liz's head about Rosa having a mystery boyfriend at that time. But maybe he was wrong and it was more like Sheriff Manes was bribing Rosa with drug money in exchange for being an alien spy or something. IDK. 

[kj4ever]

40 minutes ago, steelyis said:

Liz declaring Kyle's dad was in a sexual relationship with Rosa because of a 13 word post-it was a giant, "WTF! How did you Hulk jump to that conclusion, lady?"

Knowing how her family was treated after Rosa supposedly killed those two girls, it doesn't make Liz look super great pulling the same shit on Kyle. It looked like she was about to kill him for something his father might have done.

Isobel has good foe yay with Maria. So does Micheal. It felt like Isobel and Micheal had long, sorted histories with Maria. I think Lily Cowles and Michael Vlamis gave their best performances to date acting opposite Heather Hemmens.

The telepathic invasion brought back some bad memories, so I wasn't crazy about that.

Max's meltdown in the hospital was terrible. Nathan Parsons completely whiffed that scene, in every sense of the word. It would have been better if he decided to repair the hospital's power and never said a word.

Liz is a freaking idiot, and it is bad when you are hoping that Isobel actually succeeds in getting her to leave.  I would assume the sheriff was perhaps helping a trouble young woman get away from some bad influences.  At least that would be my first thought.  I don't like that they've made Liz this bitter a-hole.

Kyle seems to be a bit more reflective than Liz.  I think he actually used his brain tonight and decided that someone who would help the hospital was not bad.

The Max/Liz scene was painful.  Not because of what she said, but because of the horrible acting and blatant lack of chemistry.

Maria and Michael are about the only saving graces for this show right now.  I was interested in the whole Rosa deal, but she was even a bigger jerk than Liz.  How are we supposed to care about these people?

[shapeshifter]

9 minutes ago, kj4ever said:

The Max/Liz scene was painful.  Not because of what she said, but because of the horrible acting and blatant lack of chemistry.

and because moments before the Max/Liz scene, Liz has sex with Kyle. Having been a fan of the OG Max/Liz, I am mentally primed to fantasize about Max and Liz falling into a romantic kiss, which made me instead keep saying to myself, "Ick! Ick! Ick!" throughout this scene.

[Sakura12]

Considering we've seen that Manes is first option is to blackmail, he most likely was holding something over Rosa, like he is doing with Cameron now. I'd believe he killed Rosa and made it look like an alien did it so he could get funding for his crusade. 

Of course I don't know how much funding he got since he doesn't seem to have many soldiers working with him on his special project. He had to go try to blackmail first Kyle, then the sheriff and now a former soldier police officer. 

[Cristofle]

20 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Considering we've seen that Manes is first option is to blackmail, he most likely was holding something over Rosa, like he is doing with Cameron now. I'd believe he killed Rosa and made it look like an alien did it so he could get funding for his crusade. 

Of course I don't know how much funding he got since he doesn't seem to have many soldiers working with him on his special project. He had to go try to blackmail first Kyle, then the sheriff and now a former soldier police officer. 

You make an interesting point. On the OG show and in the books, the secret anti-alien group appeared to be well funded. Jesse is like, all by himself hanging around being creepy and blackmailing people into helping him. 

I do think M/L have chemistry (though not of the amazing Behr/Appleby variety) but yes, the emotional talk right after he was talking about orgasms with Cam and she had sex with Kyle is a bit of a letdown, lol. That said, they are adults and OG M/L were teenagers.

[kirkola]

4 hours ago, steelyis said:

Liz declaring Kyle's dad was in a sexual relationship with Rosa because of a 13 word post-it was a giant, "WTF! How did you Hulk jump to that conclusion, lady?"

Knowing how her family was treated after Rosa supposedly killed those two girls, it doesn't make Liz look super great pulling the same shit on Kyle. It looked like she was about to kill him for something his father might have done.

Isobel has good foe yay with Maria. So does Micheal. It felt like Isobel and Micheal had long, sorted histories with Maria. I think Lily Cowles and Michael Vlamis gave their best performances to date acting opposite Heather Hemmens.

The telepathic invasion brought back some bad memories, so I wasn't crazy about that.

Max's meltdown in the hospital was terrible. Nathan Parsons completely whiffed that scene, in every sense of the word. It would have been better if he decided to repair the hospital's power and never said a word.

To be fair, Liz jumps to a lot of conclusions.  I would be happier if they had given her any other career than scientist.  Because scientists are supposed to use the scientific method better than the goofy way she just decides things are so.

I really liked Isobel this episode.  And Michael was much improved antagonizing Maria.  I'm not feeling Max interacting with Kyle.  It's a bit too much HS drama over Liz for adults.

[Grace19]

The best part of this episode was Michael, Maria and Isobel at the bar. Maria's interaction with the both of them is better than any other interactions I've seen them have on the show. I never cared for isobel until this episode, I hope tptb makes Isobel and maria friends, I actually enjoyed their scenes better than that of Maria and Liz. I'm glad that Michael and Maria have the same chemistry that endeared them to me in the original show, looks like they will be my otp for the show again. Michael/Alex does nothing for me and while I love this Max/Liz better, the writing for them is bad and makes me roll my eyes at them but I'm still rooting for them. Liz and Kyle simple have no chemistry at all. 

There's no way tptb will make one of their major characters a murderer, so the dramatic " I killed 3 people", did nothing for me, I'm sure we'll later discover it wasn't his fault or something like that.

This show needs more Maria, the character is my favourite and I love the actress. What I've already seen does not inspire confidence. She's obviously going to be the Bonnie of the show and the show runner has already confirmed she misses 3 episodes as opposed to kyle and Alex who each misses 2, so she's obviously not that important to tptb. A shame as Maria was originally one of the most important part of Roswell.

[kirkola]

11 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

Yeah I liked the new Candy chemistry. I suspect Alex and Michael suffer from the same problem of a lot of tv gay couples, the one or both actors who portray them are straight. Its hard to convey real organic chemistry when you simply are not naturally attracted to someone. 

I suspect Michael feels responsible for what happened to Rosa but it will turn out to be someone else. I wonder if there is a fourth CV alien in the mix. In the books they had Michael's brother show up but I think if that was who killed Rosa the trio would have mentioned it. If only in a aside about Rosa costing Michael his brother.

The more I watch international shows (thanks Internet), I'm now convinced it's more about how American actors view gays, rather than straight actors not being able to bring it.  It's like the actor is afraid to play gay properly because he's afraid people will think he's gay.  When gay men have been successfully playing straight men for years with us none the wiser.  It's part of my problem with Alex and Michael.  Their love scenes are good.  But I don't feel it when they are just talking.  And I should be feeling it even then.  The actor playing Michael felt more comfortable with Maria than he did with Alex.  Which, unfortunately, shows.

However, there is enough chemistry in the love scene that I think Michael and Alex can work if they stop being so stiff and let it flow naturally.

edited: because I can't spell.

Edited February 6, 2019 by kirkola

[Whimsy]

13 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I'm 100% confident that Michael did not murder the girls, but he feels responsible for their deaths.  Part of me misses that Alex wasn't there tonight, and the other part of me is now interested in Michael and Maria.

Liz annoyed the hell out of me this episode.

1 hour ago, kirkola said:

To be fair, Liz jumps to a lot of conclusions.  I would be happier if they had given her any other career than scientist.  Because scientists are supposed to use the scientific method better than the goofy way she just decides things are so.

I agree about Michael.  Either he did something by accident or something happened that he couldn't stop and therefore feels responsible.

I also agree about Liz.  I can't believe a scientist just goes around jumping to all these conclusions without looking for more answers.  

 

13 hours ago, Whodunnit said:

I think Rosa must've found out that Isobel was an alien  (probably from the sheriff) and that's why she got the stink eye? I dunno, but I guess we'll find out next episode.

I mean, if he was her secret boyfriend then he probably filled her head with anti-alien sentiment.

 

 

13 hours ago, phoenics said:

Maybe she knew all of them were aliens - which is why she shoved Max away and didn't want Liz with him.  

I think that Valenti knew about the aliens (which has already been alluded to) and he either pulled Rosa in or Rosa saw something and connected with Valenti.  Either way, I think Rosa felt she was in danger and Valenti was helping her get away.  I do NOT think it was romantic in any way. 

12 hours ago, phoenics said:

I'm beginning to wonder what Isabel might have done to Liz when she mindwiped her or influenced her or whatever.  Did she plant fear?  Because Liz moving 14 times in 10 years sounds ... insane.  But since Rosa died - she's literally moved FOURTEEN times in TEN years!  I mean I know her mom left too 10 years ago - but something is off.  These "walls" Liz keeps mentioning - are they 100% of her own making or did Isabel help this along?  I'm struggling with her moving so much in such a short period of time.

 

 

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

There are lots of reasons to move, but the reason moving 14 times in 10 years is a potential indication of Liz being motivated by Isobel's initial leaving-town-mindwarp is because Liz herself says it's crazy. IIRC, in the same breath she says she breaks up with every guy too. So it seems either the mindwarp is the cause, or losing her mom and sister are, or maybe it's a combination of the two.

 

I agree that whatever Isobel did to make Liz leave town gave Liz an overriding urge to keep moving that she couldn't explain.  I think there are long-term complications with Isobel's mindwarps that maybe she doesn't realize.

 

I was going to stop watching this show because the first few episodes I couldn't stop comparing.  I still do some comparisons periodically, but it's much less now that the story line has diverged quite a bit.  I mostly just enjoy talking about this with you guys, so I'm probably sticking it out for the long haul heh.  But, I still find the acting lacking and the story line can be frustrating with the jumping to conclusions, secret keeping, etc. 

[Cristofle]

The jumping to conclusions is an issue with Liz, and I'm not sure it's a flaw the writers quite know is there. The late Sheriff Valenti could have had literally any one of dozens of interactions with Rosa that didn't mean "affair" just because Maria thought she might have a boyfriend. And poor Kyle played into that real fast, lol. I was starting to think Kyle and Max might be better off figuring things out without Liz. I tried to write it off with the whole Max thing, given that obviously the existence of aliens is new to her and she hasn't thought it through (that it could have easily been Michael or Isobel, that just because Max didn't mention other aliens doesn't mean they don't exist, especially because presumably they didn't waddle those pods into that cave by themselves). But the thing with Kyle's father was pretty wild. And that would be fine if I felt someone was there to ground her and be like "I know you're emotional and you're desperate to believe Rosa didn't kill herself and two girls, but simmer down a bit." 

I really do like Liz. I had such a hard time connecting to OG Liz on the first show, and this one seems more layered and lively. But she does need to stop jumping to conclusions, or someone other than Kyle needs to join this investigation who is better at pulling her back from the edge. 

[ellieart]

I really wish they would stop giving Nathan Parsons these huge, emotional scenes to play.  He's truly awful at it.  All it does is make me want Max to be pathetic and alone forever or just gone in general.  I don't want to see a Max/Liz pairing on this show.

I'm still having a hard time connecting with this show or the characters (excluding Maria and Arturo).  There's sometimes glimpses of things I like about them (the Michael/Maria banter gave Michael the chance to breathe a bit) but most of the time, they're just not working for me.  I understand Liz's anger over the whole Rosa thing and I don't fault her for that.  But that girl jumps to conclusions way too fast for someone who is supposed to be a scientist and apparently fairly levelheaded.  I never got any sort of affair or sexual vibe off the Valenti note for Rosa, to me it read as someone who was trying to help a troubled girl who needed it. 

Is anyone else having problems with the flashbacks?  I understand it's the only way to get to the bottom of the Rosa mystery, but it's jarring in a bad way.  None of those people can pull off being 17/18 at all and no amount of shaving, bangs, extensions, or soft makeup will change that.  I'm seriously already cringing at the upcoming prom episode.  It makes me question why they bothered to age up the characters in the first place.  If they wanted to give these characters adult stories, maybe they should write them as adults instead of them acting like teenagers most of the time anyway.

[Whimsy]

I forgot to add, too, that both the OG and this show seemed to have this weird thing about the characters thinking that knowing Max was an alien didn't obviously lead to knowing that Isobel & Michael were aliens.  I mean, isn't that a logical conclusion?  All three were found randomly roaming around the desert.  As soon as someone found out about Max the next logical step is to be "ok, so Isobel & Michael are then too". 

[Sakura12]

Well if not Michael at least Isobel his twin sister!

Edited February 6, 2019 by Sakura12

[ellieart]

9 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

I forgot to add, too, that both the OG and this show seemed to have this weird thing about the characters thinking that knowing Max was an alien didn't obviously lead to knowing that Isobel & Michael were aliens.  I mean, isn't that a logical conclusion?  All three were found randomly roaming around the desert.  As soon as someone found out about Max the next logical step is to be "ok, so Isobel & Michael are then too". 

That would be the most logical conclusion for characters to come to on this show.  But not for the OG, in that one it was established that Michael hid when the Evans found Max and Isabel wandering, so it would be assumed that Isabel was, but not Michael.

[Cristofle]

3 hours ago, Whimsy said:

I forgot to add, too, that both the OG and this show seemed to have this weird thing about the characters thinking that knowing Max was an alien didn't obviously lead to knowing that Isobel & Michael were aliens.  I mean, isn't that a logical conclusion?  All three were found randomly roaming around the desert.  As soon as someone found out about Max the next logical step is to be "ok, so Isobel & Michael are then too". 

Yep, I said that above. Telling Kyle about Max IS basically telling him about Isobel and Michael, given that they were three kids wandering naked and alone in the desert. 

Randomly, that reminds me that this show is different from both the OG show and the books in a key way: we don't really know if Max and Isobel ARE siblings. Their pods are individual. In the books, Max and Isabel shared a pod, and IIRC, it was at least connected in the show (and of course, they immediately were told that they had been siblings in their previous life).

7 hours ago, Grace19 said:

There's no way tptb will make one of their major characters a murderer, so the dramatic " I killed 3 people", did nothing for me, I'm sure we'll later discover it wasn't his fault or something like that.

Yes, I want to know what happened to Rosa (although Rosa herself is kind of unlikable at this point in flashbacks) but I need them to move beyond the part where each week it's suspected another of the alien trio killed Rosa. We all know that didn't happen, so let's move past that. 

[tennisgurl]

For a scientist, Liz is super quick to jump to conclusions! I mean, she leaped from "this note to my sister might have been from the old sheriff" to "HE SLEPT WITH MY SISTER OMG YOUR DAD WAS A MONSTER!!" in literally two and a half seconds. And she looked like she was about to smack poor Kyle right in the face for daring to question her assumption that his beloved deceased father was a possible statutory rapist! Kind of like how she was super quick to jump to her sister and the other girls getting murdered by an alien, then more specifically, by Max. I mean, I can get that she wants to believe that her sister didnt kill anyone (and she probably didnt) and jumping at anything that says otherwise is a very human reaction, but its not exactly endearing in a main character. It makes her look like an idiot, and an asshole, especially considering she keeps accusing people she claims to care about, or their relatives. And after everything her family has been through because of what her sister did, you would think she would know better. 

Seriously, that note could mean a million things. I think it said something about taking the first step? It sounds more like a sheriff trying to help a troubled teen, not a torrid affair. Or maybe she was an informant, either about drugs or aliens? My head was spinning with how fast her crazy ideas were coming! 

I liked the scenes at the bar with Michael, Isobel, and Maria at the bar. They all showed a lot of life, and they all had a lot of chemistry with each other. And Maria is actually a great good palm reader, go figure. That was an interesting scene, there were lots of good character beats between all of them, especially between Maria and Isobel. Why did Rosa hate her so much? Alien stuff, or high school drama? 

Rosa had a LOT of issues apparently. Not that she deserved to die, but maybe even if she didnt die, she and Liz wouldn't have a very good relationship now. She seemed to have a really dark world view, even beyond the drugs. Maybe she had mental problems, or an abusive relationship or something? She seemed like a seriously messed up kid. Yeah, I can kinda see why she wasn't miss popularity, even before she may or may not have accidentally killed two people.

The issue I have with Liz/Max right now is that they never really seem to particularly like being around each other, and they dont seem to bring out the best in each other. The actors have nice enough chemistry, but Max is always secretive and angsty, and Liz is always pissed off and suspicious, and I rarely get much happiness or real romance from them. And, they both do have reasons not to want to be around each other. Liz told his secret in about a day and still seems to suspect him of murder, and Max really is lying to her about her sisters death. Not that I think Michael actually killed anyone, but they do seem to know what went down, and let everyone think it was Rosa. For probably understandable reasons, but still.  

[methodwriter85]

5 hours ago, ellieart said:

Is anyone else having problems with the flashbacks?  I understand it's the only way to get to the bottom of the Rosa mystery, but it's jarring in a bad way.  None of those people can pull off being 17/18 at all and no amount of shaving, bangs, extensions, or soft makeup will change that.  I'm seriously already cringing at the upcoming prom episode.

No, I'm enjoying the hell out of it. I'm totally looking forward to the inevitable prom episode and watching these 30-year olds pretend to be 17.

I kind of loved how Kyle taunted Max while at the same time thanking him for setting the power back on. Trevino plays douche so well.

The angst! Love it.

2 hours ago, Cristofle said:

Yes, I want to know what happened to Rosa (although Rosa herself is kind of unlikable at this point in flashbacks)

Rosa feels like a poor ethnic version of Lily Kane from Veronica Mars, so I'm not shocked she was banging a dad. I did think that they were going to reveal that Rosa was having a lesbian affair with Isobel, and the writing on the note did seem kind of girlish, but i'm guessing that was some kind of red-herring. I like this reveal a lot, if it is actually the truth.

I think it's going to turn out that Rosa befriended the Trio on the "encouragement" of Mr. Valenti and things snowballed from there.

I'm pretty sure I heard "Shake It" by the Metro Station and "Love Song" by Sarah Bareilles in this episode, which was nice. As nice as it is to hear 90's nostalgia stuff, I did appreciate hearing things that were actually popular in 2008. We should be hearing stuff like Fergie/Black Eyed Peas, Beyonce, Justin Timberlake, Kanye West, Natasha Beddingfield etc etc.

Edited February 7, 2019 by methodwriter85

[shapeshifter]

The best part of the episode was the title ("Where Have All the Cowboys Gone?").

I missed a few bits because my reception was pixelating, but I'm not motivated to rewatch unless it happens to reair while I'm doing other stuff. 

Max in the hospital with the dying boy reminded me the OG Christmas episode, if y'all know which one I mean.

[methodwriter85]

28 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Max in the hospital with the dying boy reminded me the OG Christmas episode, if y'all know which one I mean.

The TWOP recapper (I'm not sure if it was still called Mighty Big TV at that point) had a really strong rant about how wrong it was to use the plot device of kids dying from cancer to service Max as some kind of saintly person. Anyway, I shipped Brody (cancer girl's father) and Maria...it was called Pepperjacker, because Maria served him Pepperjack sandwhiches.

Quote

I liked the scenes at the bar with Michael, Isobel, and Maria at the bar. They all showed a lot of life, and they all had a lot of chemistry with each other. And Maria is actually a great good palm reader, go figure. That was an interesting scene, there were lots of good character beats between all of them, especially between Maria and Isobel. Why did Rosa hate her so much? Alien stuff, or high school drama? 

First I thought it was because Isobel and Rosa were learning that blue actually isn't the warmest colour together, but after the revelation about Jim Valenti I'm thinking that Rosa actually believed that Isobel had some kind of thing going with Jim.

Edited February 7, 2019 by methodwriter85

[Myrrhine]

41 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Max in the hospital with the dying boy reminded me the OG Christmas episode, if y'all know which one I mean.

Of course. Who could forget. I liked that this Max thought of something to do besides heal the kid in front of a bunch of witnesses. (Even if his repairs left a suspicious mark to spark Cameron's curiosity.)

In this ep, Kyle was my favorite. He and Liz can be together as far as I'm concerned. Max and the podsquad can be on a different show. Speaking of, I did like seeing the three aliens together and not exclusively snarling at each other. And also Michael and Isabel. It's nice to see Michael actually care for someone (as opposed to studied indifference / deep attraction). I like Maria, but she is my least favorite in terms of a version of the character, so it gives me no Candy satisfaction to see her flirting with Michael.  

 

On 2/5/2019 at 8:27 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Watching about 30min behind schedule but the actress they hired to play Rosa does look like she could be Jeanne Mason’s sister!

I agree. I think that every time they show Rosa!

23 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I'm 100% confident that Michael did not murder the girls, but he feels responsible for their deaths.  Part of me misses that Alex wasn't there tonight, and the other part of me is now interested in Michael and Maria.

Liz annoyed the hell out of me this episode..

Right. I can think of a bunch of ways he could have accidentally killed them: practicing powers, experimenting with alien "metal," whatever. 

14 hours ago, kj4ever said:

Liz is a freaking idiot, and it is bad when you are hoping that Isobel actually succeeds in getting her to leave.  I would assume the sheriff was perhaps helping a trouble young woman get away from some bad influences.  At least that would be my first thought.  I don't like that they've made Liz this bitter a-hole.

Kyle seems to be a bit more reflective than Liz.  I think he actually used his brain tonight and decided that someone who would help the hospital was not bad.

You are right. It's like she thinks a) Rosa had a new boyfriend who hurt her in some way, AND she thinks Sheriff Valenti gave Rosa some bus tickets, therefore the Sheriff MUST be her boyfriend.

43 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

Rosa feels like a poor ethnic version of Lily Kane from Veronica Mars, so I'm not shocked she was banging a dad. I did think that they were going to reveal that Rosa was having a lesbian affair with Isobel, and the writing on the note did seem kind of girlish, but i'm guessing that was some kind of red-herring. I like this reveal a lot, if it is actually the truth.

I think it's going to turn out that Rosa befriended the Trio on the "encouragement" of Mr. Valenti and things snowballed from there.

 

Liz covered the end of the yearbook parental congrats, when she showed it to Kyle, so my pet theory is that it says something like "Love, your parents" or "love you always," and the handwriting is actually that of the current Sheriff Valenti, Kyle's mom. And somehow the send-off post-it was, as theorized up thread, an encouragement to get her life in order or look for her mom, or something? 

Edited February 7, 2019 by Myrrhine

[Minneapple]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

The best part of the episode was the title ("Where Have All the Cowboys Gone?").

I'm enjoying all the '90s songs references and episode titles. '90s music is the best.

[AngelKitty]

11 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I'm totally looking forward to the inevitable prom episode and watching these 30-year olds pretend to be 17.

OK, now that you put it like that, I am too.

 

8 hours ago, Minneapple said:

I'm enjoying all the '90s songs references and episode titles. '90s music is the best.

Hmm, I don't know any of this music, but in the 90's I was listening to Classic Rock/Oldies stations and the contemporary music of that time went right by me.

[Sakura12]

A prom episode. They should have just kept them as teens if they wanted to deal with teenage drama. 

These are adults, I barely thought about high school when I was 28. 

[Cristofle]

On 2/7/2019 at 8:58 AM, Sakura12 said:

A prom episode. They should have just kept them as teens if they wanted to deal with teenage drama. 

These are adults, I barely thought about high school when I was 28. 

I admittedly don't think or talk much about high school, despite having met two of my still-closest friends in high school. But I can see how Rosa's death may have frozen some of these people in that period, especially Liz (and Michael, Max, and Isobel to varying degrees depending on what happened the night Rosa died). Losing Rosa in the way that she did definitely appears to have emotionally stunted Liz (still concerned she took any part of that pep talk Rosa gave her as something to follow, heh).

I can see the Lilly Kane comparisons now that they're mentioned, but part of my issue connecting to it that way, beyond the Rosa actress not exactly being the wonderful Amanda Seyfried, is that Lilly arguably loved Veronica better than most other people in her life, while Liz and Rosa's relationship appears to have been super unhealthy. Also, on a shallow note, I did think of the scene where Lilly told Veronica she should be wearing red satin with the first Liz/Rosa flashback, but while Lilly was right that Veronica looked better in strapless red satin than the pink dress she had picked out, I actually thought Liz's first dress was cuter than the one Rosa offered, heh. 

[Regalbegal]

On 2/6/2019 at 12:33 PM, ellieart said:

I really wish they would stop giving Nathan Parsons these huge, emotional scenes to play.  He's truly awful at it. 

He was pretty cringe-y for me the first couple of episodes, but has grown on me, especially in his scenes with Jeanine Mason (like the ones at the end of this episode and the last one).  Historically in shows I will ship the tortured, dramatic pairing vs. the healthy alternative, so I wasn't really feeling the Kyle and Liz scenes (Kyle is very, very nice to look at though, and I like that they are writing him from the beginning as a layered character vs. the little weasel OG Kyle was at the beginning). 

Michael and Alex are pretty smokin' together, but Michael and Maria were fun this episode, I am fine with the writers playing around with it a little bit. Who knows, maybe there is a thruple in the offing? 

The more I see Rosa the less she is coming across "free spirit" and the more "whiney hot mess".  I find myself not super-invested in who killed her, but I would bet it ends up not being one of the "core three". 

All in all this episode was... A LOT for the 4th episode of the show.   Lots of "huh?" moments and a little too much exposition.  Still hanging in there, though!

[KittenPokerCheater]

This was a bit of the filler episode setting up for Don't Speak this coming week. Given the episode title, I bet that somehow Michael will not "confess."  I missed an Alex siting this week, but I did like how Michael/Maria sparked off each other.

The more I see of Isobel, the more I like her.  She is super exasperating, but I think she really does care for her brothers, and she is determined to protect them.  Michael/Max seem to be pretty self destructive in their own ways.

[ParadoxLost]

On 2/6/2019 at 5:44 AM, Cristofle said:

So Michael at least feels like he killed those girls. I doubt he actually did - I still think another alien was involved - but it explains why Isobel and Max have reacted the way they have. Michael's "thank you" to Max was maybe the first time I felt a real bond between them. Still, these three clearly keep secrets from each other as well as the rest of the world, given that Max has no idea Isobel has gotten into Liz's mind before. Michael said they agreed "never to talk about that night". I wonder how much they individually know. 

I'm thinking that there was something about Rosa's death (maybe Max tried to resurrect her) that would have exposed them so Michael used his powers to try to stage an accident to hide what really happened.  And in the staging of the accident, the other girls died.

[Cristofle]

11 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I'm thinking that there was something about Rosa's death (maybe Max tried to resurrect her) that would have exposed them so Michael used his powers to try to stage an accident to hide what really happened.  And in the staging of the accident, the other girls died.

A big part of me doubts that any of the main three is responsible for any of their deaths in any real way when all is said and done, but I am back to wondering if Max tried to resurrect Rosa. And I do think Michael's hand may have gotten scarred that night. Isobel once said Max and Michael have been estranged for ten years, so it seems likely it's all centered around the same thing. 

Isobel is growing on me too. I'm actually glad she seems to have mindwarped Liz to protect Michael over something about Rosa's death, rather than just driving Liz away because she didn't like how deeply Max felt for her. That said, I imagine Max is going to be really pissed off when he finds out she's already warped Liz and possibly interfered with her feelings for him in the process. 

[Lady Calypso]

So, I've just binge watched these first four episodes and I do find myself slowly getting into the show. This episode, though, is the first where I'm actually wanting to finish out the season. I've never seen the original Roswell and have little knowledge to the original, so this is like a new show for me.

I think the Kyle/Liz scenes are some of the better one in this series so far. Although I definitely see them more as friends, I like how open they've been with each other. See? That's how a functioning relationship can work! But honestly, I am really enjoying Kyle as a character. 

The Liz/Max stuff is slowly growing on me. I've never been a fan of pre-destined endgame couples, especially forced right off the bat, but they're starting to actually establish it more. Isobel's also growing on me. I'm intrigued by her power moreso than Max. At least with Max, we kind of already know exactly what his power is. We still don't know much about Isobel's powers and her potential. We also don't know what else Michael can do, other than have some form of telekinetic powers or energy waves or something.

I don't really believe Michael killed those two girls, but he seems to believe that he did, and that his siblings know about it. I'm just trying to figure out exactly how they're psyching us out. 

The one thing I still don't understand is the drinking nail polish remover. I mean, that's very suspect to do in public; if they're trying to fly under the radar, wouldn't they use anything else that's less conspicuous? 

I'll admit I'm not really a fan of Michael/Alex (I just don't really see the actors having much chemistry), but the whole Michael/Maria stuff captured my eye. Mostly because I like Maria and hope she grows beyond her potential. With this show having aliens, is Maria really a psychic or is she just really good at reading people? 

[AllyB]

Haven't watched ep 5 yet, so maybe it will improve upon this. But I'm finding Max such an appalling character. All he cares about is his ongoing love for Liz. He keeps throwing his years of love for her in her face as if that's supposed to mean something to her and she owes him some sort of acknowledgement for it. In this episode when he went to her in Crashdown all he cared about was that she believed he loved her. His attitude was, I know you suspect me of murdering your sister, but that doesn't matter as long as you believe I've always loved you. That's serial killer level creepy.

He doesn't know her, he was never close to her, got to know who she was. Even if he had, he hasn't seen her in a decade. She's a fantasy that he's obsessed with. And every chance he gets, he needs to tell her all about it with his big wounded face that she could think badly of him when he loves her so. Even his refusal to let her kiss him in ep 2 because she was feeling his feelings, seemed rehearsed. He's probably been mentally fantasising about his big Nice Guy gesture of respecting her autonomy since he was 12. And now he's done that and she still doesn't act like someone who is respecting his big gesture of loooooove. OMG, life isn't playing out like his fantasy, it's so unfair. If only there was a 4chan group for alien men who's human love interest hasn't fallen at their feet despite how Nice a Guy they are.

I hate him so much.

Edited February 13, 2019 by AllyB

[Sakura12]

It doesn't get any better in ep 5. That's a reason I'm finding to hard to root for this Max and Liz. Max's love is more creepy obsessive than cute. And Liz's more obsessed with finding out about her sister, enough that she would automatically blame Max after he just saved her life. 

In the original I'm more accepting of a teenager thinking he'll never love anyone else. However this Max is 28 and never moved on from a high school crush. That's unhealthy.

We've seen that it's hard for Isobel to get Liz to leave this time because she has a reason to stay, her sister. Last time she did it, Liz probably wanted to leave. It's easier to persuade someone to leave when they already have a foot out the door. So it didn't seem like Max was on her mind that much back then. 

[phoenics]

14 hours ago, AllyB said:

He doesn't know her, he was never close to her, got to know who she was. Even if he had, he hasn't seen her in a decade. She's a fantasy that he's obsessed with. 

What if Max WAS close to her and that part of what Isobel did to Liz was remove memories of how close she was to Max - and to put a hypnotic suggestion into Liz that made her leave town?

There are promo pics from episode 6 showing Liz and Max hugged up sometime after he picked her up for their bio project the day Rosa died.  Max also asks Liz what she remembered from "how they were" before Rosa died.  I think Isobel wiped all of that away to get Liz to leave.  Isobel says in episode 5 that Max wanted to tell her the secret - that implies Max/Liz were already close.

[phoenics]

12 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

We've seen that it's hard for Isobel to get Liz to leave this time because she has a reason to stay, her sister. 

Um - is that what we saw?  Because I heard and saw Isobel ask why Liz couldn't leave (while she was mindwalking her) and Liz answered "Max".  And then Isobel said that when Liz said "Max" she got this rush of feelings from Liz for Max and that deep down, Liz actually did love Max.  And later to Noah she admits that she realized that Max was unhappy because he loved someone who he thought didn't love him back - but she DID love him back (deep down), and that [them not being together] was her fault.

I thought it was pretty clear that Liz's reason for staying WAS Max - not about Rosa and thinking Max killed Rosa - but literally that she loved Max.

I know several people were arguing that didn't make sense and that the writers *must* have meant Rosa and Max's connection to her death, but that's not actually what aired.

Edited February 14, 2019 by phoenics

[Sakura12]

She didn't say because she loved Max. She could've meant to see if Max killed her sister. I just don't see the love coming from Liz. Both of them being weak actors is probably another reason I'm not feeling them. 

Edited February 14, 2019 by Sakura12