S05.E13: Goldfaced

[Trini]

Quote

Barry and Ralph must go undercover as criminals in an illegal black market to purchase a device that could help them stop Cicada. Once inside, Barry and Ralph find their morality tested as they slip deeper into the criminal world, eventually having to choose between committing a crime, or losing the means to defeat one of their greatest foes. Meanwhile, Iris investigates a lead on Cicada's whereabouts and ends up in a dangerous situation.

Alexandra LaRoche directed the episode written by Jonathan Butler & Gabriel Garza.

Airdate: 2/5/2019

[scarynikki12]

Episode threads are for episode discussion.  They are not for comic discussion, spoilers, previews, or convincing posters that their opinions are wrong.  We have threads for comic and spoiler discussions.  If you wish to reference comics, previews, or spoilers, that's allowed but they must all be tagged as spoilers and they cannot move discussion from the episode itself.  Posts that fail to use the spoiler tag will be hidden and repeat offenders will be warned.

[SimoneS]

Really good episode. Way to go, Iris! Nice to see Iris being an investigative reporter even though Orlin was scary as hell. 

Barry and Ralph looked handsome tonight and looked great shooting those guys, but honestly, Barry could have just phased out of the cuffs using Flashtime. Amazing how his powers change according to the plot. I like Goldface. He was a good villain. I am glad that he didn't die. I want to see him again.

Where is Carlos? I really miss him.

Because it cannot be said enough Nora is an idiot. I can't wait for Thawne to show his true colors and turn on her. She deserves nothing less.

Kimberly Williams-Paisley is lovely and looks 10 years younger or than Tom Cavanagh.

Edited February 6, 2019 by SimoneS

[BeautifulFlower]

Iris West-Allen is truly a badass. She never loses in her fights. I mean clock king, marlize, dr. light, and now Cicada.

She did what the others failed to do.

Hated the Sherloque/Nora/wife plot. Wasted time

They didn't even give you a reason for why cisco was absent. In 5x04 and 5x11, they did

[bettername2come]

Barry’s lying skills are either 0 or 10. There is no in between. I always enjoy the “Barry wears black and works with the bad guys” episodes. I also love Kimberly Williams Paisley, and found all 5 versions believable.

Stop working with the psycho, Nora! 

I need Jesse and Carlos back! I miss them!

[SimoneS]

I just can't with Nora any more. I can't even give any credence to the "she is naive and being taken advantage of" excuse any more. She is just dumb as a box of rocks. Watching her dig her own grave with Thawne is hard because it will break Iris and Barry's hearts when they find out and Thawne inevitably turns on her.

Edited February 6, 2019 by SimoneS

[cambridgeguy]

Quote

Iris West-Allen is truly a badass. She never loses in her fights. I mean clock king, marlize, dr. light, and now Cicada.

In the grand tradition of comic book reporters she's also kind of an idiot.  If you insist on breaking and entering then have some damned backup just in case the very dangerous person you're investigating comes home.  She's lucky Cicada threw that dagger at the door instead of in her back right before their big fight.

So let's see, they need to immobilize Cicada for about a minute to get this cure to work.  If only they could instantly teleport anywhere and had a teammate who can literally freeze him in place.  You know, just like last week, when they had Cicada pinned to a wall before Caitlin was needed to tell everyone a wounded person should be taken to a hospital.

So does Carlos Valdes need time off or did the bean counters decide they didn't want to pay him for a full season's worth of episodes?

[SimoneS]

2 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

In the grand tradition of comic book reporters she's also kind of an idiot.  If you insist on breaking and entering then have some damned backup just in case the very dangerous person you're investigating comes home.  She's lucky Cicada threw that dagger at the door instead of in her back right before their big fight.

It was great anyway! Cicada menacing. Iris trying to be slick and failing. I loved Iris trying to escape and then fighting back. Besides, who really ever has back up on tv?

 

2 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

So does Carlos Valdes need time off or did the bean counters decide they didn't want to pay him for a full season's worth of episodes?

If he is available, they have to pay him so maybe he has other projects going on and is getting time off.

[AD35]

11 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I just can't with Nora any more. I can't even give any credence to the "she is naive and being taken advantage of" excuse any more. She is just dumb as a box of rocks. Watching her dig her own grave with Thawne is hard to watch because it will break Iris and Barry's hearts when they find out and Thawne inevitably turns on her.

Unless she has some plan to double cross Thawne at the very end (which won't work) , this isn't going to end too well for the West-Allens.  I suppose it could tie into Dibney's remark about the end justifying the means, but complex and subtle doesn't seem to be in Nora's normal mode of operating.

[Jediknight]

Iris beats Cicada in a fight, and then just leaves.  She didn't even try to knock him out.  Team Flash continue to be idiots to keep this plotline going.

Red vs blue lasers, and the villains can't hit anything?  It was like an episode of GI Joe came to The Flash.

[SimoneS]

9 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

Iris beats Cicada in a fight, and then just leaves.  She didn't even try to knock him out.  Team Flash continue to be idiots to keep this plotline going.

Iris left because by the time she figured out how to knock him out, he would have recovered and killed her. Iris got lucky as things stood with the pepper spray and stabbing him in his wound. Sticking around to try and finish out someone more powerful that you is what people do in horror movies right before they get killed so instead Iris called for help.

Edited February 6, 2019 by SimoneS

[catrice2]

Nora is ruining the season for me, followed closely by Sherloque.  I may also be the only person who cares very little about Cisco and don't really think he adds much to the show. 

[tennisgurl]

I love when Iris gets to be a badass. She not only went into a room with the serial killer, but even got the drop on him! Even with his meta knife! Nobody screws with Iris West-Allen! 

Barry really only has two settings on lying, huh? Horrible, and amazing. God dang, why is Barry pretending to be evil so attractive to me? Even Ralph was looking good in his evil outfit! What is wrong with me?!? 

Nora...look at your life, look at your choices. 

[RedVitC]

Liked the episode. Great Iris content. Fight scenes that weren't too short. Even a little Barry/Iris.

I love Nora and I like Sherloque, but I'm not sure about their subplot. I get why it was there, but i think I would have preferred them to just go with A plot with the heist/undercover stuff and B plot Iris investigating.

[Maverick]

 C'mon Barry.  A few weeks ago you were literally Oliver Queen/Green Arrow.  And a Trigger Twin.  You should be able to turn on your tough guy persona like a switch.

 It certainly looks like they're phasing out Cisco..  I wonder if it's something temporary of Carlos is really leaving.

[Trini]

54 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Nora...look at your life, look at your choices. 

Theme of the season:

[Lantern7]

You know what I never thought could show up on The Flash? White Zombie. Yet, there's a shootout with Barry and Ralph, scored to "Dragula." That . . . was oddly awesome. When they realized the guns had stun settings, I thought they'd use that to neutralize the wristbands. But nope, they got into a simulated firefight. I think that worked better.

For anyone hating Nora, I'm thinking she'll be gone by season's end . . . because if she's thirty years old, Barry and Iris would have to conceive her soon. That sets up a paradox . . . Barry and Iris clearly love each other, but all this Cicada business probably keeps the heat in the bedroom to a minimum. And yeah, I know they're not that affectionate as they should be as characters. The obvious pops into my head . . . but I also figure The Flash is basically one movie rating lower than Arrow. I mean, we wouldn't expect Olicity levels of lovemaking, but it feels like the Arrowverse puts most of those eggs in their basket, if that makes sense.

Sherloque basically married the same woman four times. And he faked his death with one of them on two occasions. That's funny. I mean, I'm tired of Infinite Wellses, I wish Tom didn't insist on switching things up every other season (I'm thinking Harry comes back in 2019-20), but seeing Sherloque getting bitched out was better than seeing the Council of Wellses . .. featuring Sprockets Wells, Goodfellas Wells, and Mad Max Wells.

I think Iris is out of her depth in trying to "interview" Cicada. She was still impressive, though. And I'm guessing Nora told her about the dollhouse, so smashing that turned him into a gibbering wreck for a few seconds.

I like Barry being a doofus. Shit, watch his brief appearance in last night's Arrow. But there should be no way Ralph could have lured him to the truck to get locked in. Dummy!

[adora721]

So, the writers have, once again, made the meta cure confusing. The new cure is to suppress the meta genome - cool. However, it's by neutralizing the dark matter in the pituitary gland. Once again, this wouldn't affect Killer Frost since there's no dark matter in her, so what was the point of KF's tantrum in 5x11? Just like her tantrum in 5x10, it was pointless. Does no one keep their plot points in check? Does no one verify continuity? Even with Barry claiming to not be good at decorating was a plot hole.

Edited February 6, 2019 by adora721

[Trini]

I'd love to see more of Goldface sometime. He was way more threatening and smart than Cicada. Cool-looking powers.

Glad to see Iris investigating, thinking quick. I loved that Iris/Candice got another fight scene! And that she was able to get out of there herself. But then I'm supposed to believe this is the same guy that teams of superheroes can't defeat? Come on, now.

And I was hoping Chris Klein wouldn't be so growly, etc. in his scenes with Candice, but no such luck.

So at least Team Flash know where his home is; so now they got him on the run. Somewhat - since I'm sure he'll be showing up again.

So did the writers just really want to do a shoot-out action sequence, and they wrote this plot to get to that? I'm... not that mad about it. It was nice seeing Barry using (some) smarts instead of speed. "The Chemist" should totally be a recurring undercover persona for Barry.

I liked the Barry/Ralph 'dark ops' team-up, but the dynamic really works better with Good Cop/Bad Cop (Barry/Snart); here it was two Good Cops.

LOL at referencing Barry's poor sports skills, and Goldface getting cut off mid-monologue!

I doubt Carlos is missing because of another project. And if they were truly writing him out, I think we'd be seeing more of him, not less.

[adora721]

 I guess Barry and Ralph have a small idea of what it's like to be a member of the suicide squad.

Those criminals shoot like "Star Wars" Stormtroppers; that's not a compliment.

Look at Barry using his smarts! Whoo!

Loved Iris hitting Cicada in his "heart", I guess, which is his weak spot!

No powers - no problem! Great episode to reinforce that it's not powers that make you a hero or heroine!

ETA: Goldface actor can act! He was intimidating, but also charismatic - a scary, good combination for a villain.

Edited February 6, 2019 by adora721

[phoenics]

I only have one thing to say: 

 

Iris is a badass.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

[Brinny]

@adora721 YEP. It's the nitpickiest of nitpicks, but I hate that they had Barry say the extent of his interior decorating was couch in the corner or couch against the wall. Dude decorated their entire loft. Which has been mentioned more than once. Why they gotta downplay domestic goddess Barry? Be proud of your hero who uses his awesome super powers for floral arrangements and cooking pancakes and making his house pretty.

Okay. I'll say it: I like Ralph. I like that he's kind of a doofus (and I'm so happy that they toned down/did away with all that overplayed "isn't misogyny cute?" crap that they used to do with him) and I think Hartley Sawyer is absolutely adorable and he and Grant play really well off each other. Now that Ralph has morals, they should really team up more. Bring on more Ralph! Good zany: Ralph Dibny. Bad zany: any sort of council of Wellses be it Harrisons or his exes. 

(As an aside, having Rob Zombie play while Barry and Ralph were doing their bad guy take down was amazing. What an unexpected, but surprisingly delightful music choice.)

Also, I don't understand. How does a meta cure have anything to do with Cicada? He has meta TECH. Or are they saying that he has meta dampening powers because of that gaping chest wound as well? Because then there's STILL the dagger to deal with. Non? I'm so confused. 

Speaking of Cicada, I like that they were trying to achieve a horror movie tone with his sit down with Iris, but OMG that shaky camera work was hard to watch. Chris Klein's "acting" is also hard to watch, but one of those things could have been easily helped, ya know?

Edited February 6, 2019 by Brinny

[tennisgurl]

I get why they named it this, but I just find the name Goldfaced to be kinda hilarious. “In the highly anticipated sequel to Goldfinger, James Bond meets his most terrifying enemy yet...Goldenface!” *Cue Doctor Evil music* 

[adora721]

2 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

If you insist on breaking and entering then have some damned backup just in case the very dangerous person you're investigating comes home.

This is actually a long-standing thing with all members of team Flash. They rarely have a plan going into a fight. I only recall two times recently :1) Against the Thinker in S4 that almost worked, but Caitlin ruined it and almost got Cynthia killed.  2) The other time was also in S4 to rescue the ARGUS workers, which did work. 

So, it's not just Iris who goes in without a plan, but at least she thinks fast and can fight, unlike Barry and the others who most often get their butts kicked since they don't train to use their other skills and depend too much on their powers. At least this episode sent a message that they do have other skills besides powers to use against their foes.

17 minutes ago, Brinny said:

Also, I don't understand. How does a meta cure have anything to do with Cicada? He has meta TECH. Or are they saying that he has meta dampening powers because of that gaping chest wound as well? Because then there's STILL the dagger to deal with. Non? I'm so confused. 

 

In 5x8, Cicada admitted that he, too, is a meta, and Orlin said he'd kill himself after killing the metas. So, he has dark matter in him, too. It's not just his dagger. The interesting thing is when Orlin finds out Grace is also a meta, what will he do about that? Conundrum...

Edited February 6, 2019 by adora721

[Trini]

A few more things:

Yay, a little WestAllen scene at the start! And yes, Barry is the interior designer in the family. Do they not make the new writers actually watch the show??

So there was an article(?) or review(?) of Iris' new website(?)? Oddly specific.

Another nitpick: That was way too many men and firepower just to steal a piece of equipment when they already knew the building was empty. Overkill much, Goldface?! (I still like him as a bad guy, though!)

5 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I get why they named it this, but I just find the name Goldfaced to be kinda hilarious. “In the highly anticipated sequel to Goldfinger, James Bond meets his most terrifying enemy yet...Goldenface!” *Cue Doctor Evil music* 

But he has *gold*, in his FACE! Look, Cisco can't name everybody, OK?

So what exactly is Cicada's weakness? Is it just the wound? The shrapnel in the wound?

Oh, was there a Nora/Wells #382 subplot? I have no idea what y'all are talking about.... 😶

[Brinny]

11 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I get why they named it this, but I just find the name Goldfaced to be kinda hilarious. “In the highly anticipated sequel to Goldfinger, James Bond meets his most terrifying enemy yet...Goldenface!” *Cue Doctor Evil music* 

I know it's Goldface (stupid name, decent villain), but I every time I saw the title I kept thinking about Goldenface from Threat Level Midnight. 

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Brinny
ack! gifs!

[Trini]

1 hour ago, Brinny said:

Okay. I'll say it: I like Ralph. I like that he's kind of a doofus (and I'm so happy that they toned down/did away with all that overplayed "isn't misogyny cute?" crap that they used to do with him) and I think Hartley Sawyer is absolutely adorable and he and Grant play really well off each other. Now that Ralph has morals, they should really team up more. Bring on more Ralph! Good zany: Ralph Dibny. Bad zany: any sort of council of Wellses be it Harrisons or his exes. 

It's amazing what better writing and letting him be a supporting character (and not taking over the show) can do. And yeah, Hartley's pretty good; he was the one good thing about Ralph last season. They've shown him being friends with everyone on the Team, and being helpful. So much better.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Trini

[Brinny]

10 minutes ago, adora721 said:

In 5x8, Cicada admitted that he, too, is a meta, and Orlin said he'd kill himself after killing the metas. So, he has dark matter in him, too. It's not just his dagger. The interesting thing is when Orlin finds out Grace is also a meta, what will he do about that? Conundrum...

Okay, I must not have been paying attention then. But that just brings up more questions. What is Team Flash going to do about his meta dampening super powered dagger? Surely meta tech can't be cured by fixing someone's pituitary gland? Does the dagger actually count as meta tech since it's actually just satellite shrapnel, right? Also, if Cicada himself is a meta (from his wound? I guess??), why is he immune to his own dagger? IS he immune to his own dagger or is it part of his powers? Am I too stupid for a CW show? I don't understand so many things. 

[ruby24]

All these episodes are crap lately. Just crap.

I basically have the show on as background noise because nothing on it holds my attention in the slightest. I just don't care about anything that's happening or any of the characters anymore. I'm starting to hate their faces, to be honest. I don't even look forward to it because I know it will disappoint me. Nora is extremely irritating. I hate Sherloque and I'm sick of Tom Cavanagh's Reverse Flash. I HATE Caitlin and Killer Frost equally. Cicada is the worst villain the show has EVER had. Cisco is inexplicably missing from all these episodes (guessing he's going to leave the show soon?), Ralph is a non-entity.

No Joe. No WestAllen. I'm sorry but I'm now convinced the actors have absolutely no offscreen friendship whatsoever and that really shows- there will never be a romantic or love scene between them in this case. I feel stupid because I probably should have seen that all along- I never would have held out hope if I had realized what some people always knew, I guess. And I have a terrible feeling that if they had Barry with another love interest now (say in an alternate universe or whatever) they absolutely would give him a love scene and more physical interaction with whoever the actress was. There's something wrong here.

I'm dangling by a thread, but I don't even know what I'm hoping for at this point. What would make it the show I used to love again? I don't think it can come back.

Edited February 6, 2019 by ruby24

[ottoDbusdriver]

Now we get the Council of ex-Mrs. Wells -- how many times are they going to trot out this council bit ?
And how exactly are the various ex-Mrs. Wells communicating with each other.  Only one of them said they had access to a Breacher.

Was Goldface an original meta or a recent meta-tech meta ?  

Has anyone checked the side of milk carton for a picture of Cisco recently ?  Because he's still missing.

Edited February 6, 2019 by ottoDbusdriver

[Trini]

25 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Was Goldface an original meta or a recent meta-tech meta ?  

I'm assuming he's an 'original' meta. I think they said they've been trying to catch him for years. His name only makes sense with his powers.

[Trini]

Not that I had any high expectations, but the show is already fumbling addressing the ethics of the meta cure:

A previous episode:
Caitlin: "We're not going to force the cure on anybody."

This episode:
Barry: "I want to force the cure on Cicada."
Caitlin: "Here's my idea to help you with that."

Ummmmmmmm......?

[tkc]

We enjoyed that Sherloque's love interest in this episode was Renee Adler -- a nice reference to Irene Adler in the Arthur Conan Doyle Holmes stories. In "A Scandal in Bohemia", Watson writes: "To Sherlock Holmes she is always the woman. I have seldom heard him mention her under any other name. In his eyes she eclipses and predominates the whole of her sex."

Nice to see Kimberly Williams-Paisley too, although it's hard for me to see her as any character other than Steve Martin's screen daughter Annie Banks in "The Father of the Bride"! Wouldn't it be fun to see Steve Martin as four different versions of Sherloque's ex-father-in-law?

[thuganomics85]

Glad Iris got her badass on and took down Cicada, even if she really lucked out that he didn't see through her obvious cover story (really should have had a better one planned out if you're just going to sneak in potential baddies' lairs) or decided to simply meta-throw that dagger into her, instead of just the door.  Still, pretty much every her on this show has had random luck/obvious writing like that, so that doesn't outweigh the awesomeness of everything.  I'm glad this show seems to have finally figured out how to use her.

Barry probably isn't the best person to go undercover in a dark market, but I guess I'll give him credit for shaking past his initial funk and pulling off that "The Chemist" persona.  While he's generally pretty good; even great; all around, Grant Gustin seems to really enjoy it when he gets to be more sinister.  And then there is Ralph where, once again, I can't believe I'm actually liking him this season.  Enjoyed watching them team up, even if it felt like the bad guys suddenly doubled their initial amount during the shoot-out.  Why did Goldface feel like he needed to send two dozen troops to a lab that was empty?  Unless he always suspected that Ralph and Barry were up to something.

So, Eobard and Nora hatch up a plan to make Sherloque drop his snooping, by having him fall for this Earth's version of his wife (because, of course, all of his wives were the same woman from a different universe), but Nora even manages to almost mess all of that up.  But I guess it works for now.  Cool seeing Kimberly Williams-Paisley, since I remember the first time I saw her in a fantasy miniseries called The 10th Kingdom over twenty years ago, which sadly didn't do very well, but I loved it (it was pretty much Once Upon a Time before Once Upon a Time actually happened.  And this one didn't have freaking Regina!)

Really not liking the lack of Cisco this season.  I just hope it is simply because Carlos Valdes needed extra days off and not because he wants out or the show wants to get rid of him.

[steelyis]

Iris should take over catching Cicada.

Hell, if CP and DP could share a scene for more than three minutes Iris and Killer Frost would catch Cicada in two.

I wonder if Orlan would've actually hurt Iris?

Ralph and Barry make a good team. Love them pulling out the main henchman's pistols and blasting the crap out of Goldface.

Sherloque's C-plot was cute. Kimberly Williams-Paisley is a treasure, so it's always nice to see her.

I'm still waiting to come even a micron closer to giving a shit about Nora.

[cambridgeguy]

7 hours ago, Trini said:

So there was an article(?) or review(?) of Iris' new website(?)? Oddly specific.

She seemed pretty depressed about it too.  Being called boring is borderline constructive and pretty polite compared to some of the other online comments anyone would be getting.  Let's just hope she didn't post her photo on her page since Cicada now knows what she looks like.  Maybe she should take a page from Kara, start wearing glasses, and do something slightly different with her hair - it's the perfect disguise!

[SimoneS]

11 hours ago, adora721 said:

So, the writers have, once again, made the meta cure confusing. The new cure is to suppress the meta genome - cool. However, it's by neutralizing the dark matter in the pituitary gland. Once again, this wouldn't affect Killer Frost since there's no dark matter in her, so what was the point of KF's tantrum in 5x11? Just like her tantrum in 5x10, it was pointless. Does no one keep their plot points in check? Does no one verify continuity? Even with Barry claiming to not be good at decorating was a plot hole.

 

I have stopped giving any thought to how the meta cure works since Helbing clearly doesn't care about continuity. Anything goes with him.

 

11 hours ago, adora721 said:

ETA: Goldface actor can act! He was intimidating, but also charismatic - a scary, good combination for a villain.

The actor was so good that I looked him up. His name is Damion Poitier. He was Thanos in The Avengers! It explains why they didn't kill him off. I really hope we see him and the Ragdoll again. They are two villains who should get a three episode arc. I don't understand how this show can get the casting of the villain of the week so right and get Chris Klein as the big bad for the season so damn wrong.

 

11 hours ago, Brinny said:

Okay, I must not have been paying attention then. But that just brings up more questions. What is Team Flash going to do about his meta dampening super powered dagger? Surely meta tech can't be cured by fixing someone's pituitary gland? Does the dagger actually count as meta tech since it's actually just satellite shrapnel, right? Also, if Cicada himself is a meta (from his wound? I guess??), why is he immune to his own dagger? IS he immune to his own dagger or is it part of his powers? Am I too stupid for a CW show? I don't understand so many things. 

I have stopped thinking too much about Cicada's powers. It seems to me that they been vague so they change them as needed by the plot. Reminds me of Zoom who couldn't open breaches and then suddenly could open breaches. The only thing I think is correct is that the shard in his chest and the one in Grace connects them somehow.

 

10 hours ago, ruby24 said:

No Joe. No WestAllen. I'm sorry but I'm now convinced the actors have absolutely no offscreen friendship whatsoever and that really shows- there will never be a romantic or love scene between them in this case. I feel stupid because I probably should have seen that all along- I never would have held out hope if I had realized what some people always knew, I guess. And I have a terrible feeling that if they had Barry with another love interest now (say in an alternate universe or whatever) they absolutely would give him a love scene and more physical interaction with whoever the actress was. There's something wrong here.

Hey, at least Iris kissed Barry on the cheek so that is an improvement. I have no clue about Grant and Candice's off screen relationship, but I am now pretty confident even if they are BFF, this show is never giving Barry and Iris a love scene. Maybe it is racism, maybe it is the large number of young viewers under 17, whatever the reason or excuse, it is never happening.

 

8 hours ago, tkc said:

Nice to see Kimberly Williams-Paisley too, although it's hard for me to see her as any character other than Steve Martin's screen daughter Annie Banks in "The Father of the Bride"! Wouldn't it be fun to see Steve Martin as four different versions of Sherloque's ex-father-in-law?

Same here. I still see her as the lovely tomboy Annie. 

 

3 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

She seemed pretty depressed about it too.  Being called boring is borderline constructive and pretty polite compared to some of the other online comments anyone would be getting.  Let's just hope she didn't post her photo on her page since Cicada now knows what she looks like.  Maybe she should take a page from Kara, start wearing glasses, and do something slightly different with her hair - it's the perfect disguise!

I can't imagine that it would take much for Cicada to figure Iris' real identity. An Internet search for a reporter involved with metas or familiar with the Flash has got to pull up her photo from her Flash articles when she was at the newspaper. I can see him going after her or kidnapping her to lure in Barry and Nora.

Edited February 6, 2019 by SimoneS

[SevenStars]

I might have missed something but why did Iris go by herself ?

Edited February 6, 2019 by SevenStars

[SimoneS]

2 hours ago, SevenStars said:

I might have missed something but why did Iris go by herself ?

 

No reason was mentioned, Iris just did. She was following up the lead from the guy at Jitters. 

ETA: I am not thrilled with Nora being prominently featured this season, especially as I think that she will be gone soon enough.

Edited February 6, 2019 by SimoneS

[jmonique]

Has the show's budget been reduced or something? It's like they can't afford to use everyone now. 

In other news, at first I was like: "How'd Ralph become such a bad ass?" Then I remembered, he was a cop. Of course he knew how to fight and shoot. Kind of wish they would have reminded us of that. But it was nice to see him demonstrate how he became a detective.

As for Nora and Sherloque, I just can't, y'all. I just can't.

Edited February 6, 2019 by jmonique

[adora721]

6 hours ago, SweetTooth said:

So, they bring in Nora to be the most annoying character ever. I have no patience. I agree that she's not young enough to be this naive and stupid. She's not ingratiating or fun to watch. She keeps doing stuff to "help" that blows up in her face, but rather than realizing that she only causes bigger and bigger disasters every time she listens to Thawne, she goes right on trusting him. Any goodwill she builds up on one episode, goes completely out the window in the next one, as she learns nothing from every lesson she's been given.

This is exactly how Ralph used to be in S4. Why the writers thought they should do this again is beyond me. 

[Writing Wrongs]

10 hours ago, ruby24 said:

All these episodes are crap lately. Just crap.

I basically have the show on as background noise because nothing on it holds my attention in the slightest. I just don't care about anything that's happening or any of the characters anymore. I'm starting to hate their faces, to be honest. I don't even look forward to it because I know it will disappoint me. Nora is extremely irritating. I hate Sherloque and I'm sick of Tom Cavanagh's Reverse Flash. I HATE Caitlin and Killer Frost equally. Cicada is the worst villain the show has EVER had. Cisco is inexplicably missing from all these episodes (guessing he's going to leave the show soon?), Ralph is a non-entity.

I'm dangling by a thread, but I don't even know what I'm hoping for at this point. What would make it the show I used to love again? I don't think it can come back.

Get out of my head. LOL

I feel similar. I end up fast forwarding through most of it. I have been struggling with the Arrowverse lately.

[adora721]

10 hours ago, Trini said:

Not that I had any high expectations, but the show is already fumbling addressing the ethics of the meta cure:

A previous episode:
Caitlin: "We're not going to force the cure on anybody."

This episode:
Barry: "I want to force the cure on Cicada."
Caitlin: "Here's my idea to help you with that."

Ummmmmmmm......?

Technically, it was Caitlin who first voiced (out loud) turning Cisco's first idea into a serum to "get rid of" Cicada's powers (not consensual at all), so I'm not surprised Caity Frost is all for using it against Cicada's will. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by adora721

[Kate45]

10 hours ago, ruby24 said:

No Joe. No WestAllen. I'm sorry but I'm now convinced the actors have absolutely no offscreen friendship whatsoever and that really shows- there will never be a romantic or love scene between them in this case. I feel stupid because I probably should have seen that all along- I never would have held out hope if I had realized what some people always knew, I guess. And I have a terrible feeling that if they had Barry with another love interest now (say in an alternate universe or whatever) they absolutely would give him a love scene and more physical interaction with whoever the actress was. There's something wrong here.

Both Candice and Grant have stated in interviews/cons that the writers give close to zero direction about when they should kiss or be affectionate. So, I would say that the vast majority of the affection that we have seen has been due to the actors adding in the things that make the couple so sweet. That said, because of the way the actors have built out this couple their lack of affection is jarring. All of these episodes happened as Grant was planning his wedding, and I hope that wouldn’t cause the ACTORS to stop being affectionate. However, I do think that’s the case, to be honest. It’s really annoying and feels strange. 

8 hours ago, Trini said:

Not that I had any high expectations, but the show is already fumbling addressing the ethics of the meta cure:

A previous episode:
Caitlin: "We're not going to force the cure on anybody."

This episode:
Barry: "I want to force the cure on Cicada."
Caitlin: "Here's my idea to help you with that."

Ummmmmmmm......?

Simply put: Caitlin and KF are plot device characters whose actions never make much sense. Plot didn’t call for Caitlin to have a problem with the cure, so she doesn’t. Perhaps the plot will call for her to have a problem with a forced-cure next week, so she’ll hop back on the train of having a problem with it 🤷‍♀️

It’s almost shocking that fandom doesn’t call it out. We all know why it isn’t called out either. 

[adora721]

1 hour ago, Kate45 said:

All of these episodes happened as Grant was planning his wedding, and I hope that wouldn’t cause the ACTORS to stop being affectionate. However, I do think that’s the case, to be honest. It’s really annoying and feels strange.

Mr. Gustin needs to do his job of portraying a man in love with his wife. He's almost 30 years old and knows it's pretend. He has portrayed a gay character while having a girlfriend. It's a job Grant; do it right.

[BeautifulFlower]

I'm not surpised people had a problem with Iris beating Cicada in a fight. They always find something to complain. 

Iris fight with him was not unrealistic. Iris is a Mary Sue for using self defense in beating Cicada, but Killer Frost is okay? We never seen her learn any fighting techniques, but she ain't a Mary Sue? GTFOH

I need people to actually pay attention to all of Cicada's scenes. He throws the dagger to dampen the metas powers. Then he engages in hand to hand combat before killing them. Where do these people see Cicada using superpowers to defeat these people? Any human who know basic combat can defeat him.

Iris a cop's daughter. A cop who taught her and Barry how to defend themselves and taught her how to aim and shoot.

[cdnalor]

10 hours ago, Trini said:

Not that I had any high expectations, but the show is already fumbling addressing the ethics of the meta cure:

A previous episode:
Caitlin: "We're not going to force the cure on anybody."

This episode:
Barry: "I want to force the cure on Cicada."
Caitlin: "Here's my idea to help you with that."

Ummmmmmmm......?

Cicada is a serial killer.  Is that not enough justification to remove his powers the same way you would take away his liberty by imprisonment?

[Trini]

1 hour ago, cdnalor said:

Cicada is a serial killer.  Is that not enough justification to remove his powers the same way you would take away his liberty by imprisonment?

No. His powers isn't what is killing people. Unless they go the way of 'the dark matter corrupted him' - which they have not yet. I think he would be hunting metas without his powers. Either way he should go to prison for his crimes.

Removing his powers by force could be an effective way to defeat him; whether they should is debatable. [And what are his powers exactly? It's 1) controlling the dagger, and 2) general strength?]

Speculation time: I think that the cure won't work on Cicada, or they won't be able to try it on him, because when has a plan introduced this early ever actually been The Thing that stops the villain? The cure will be used on someone(s), and/or affect someone(s), but it won't be Cicada.

[blugirlami21]

I thought the episode was ok.  I fast forwarded a lot through Nora's side plot cause she's an idiot.  Every time she goes crying to Reverse Flash for help I just want to smack her.  He's a known killer and manipulator.  Even he readily admits that if Barry found out he was "helping" Nora that Barry would be the first one to put a hand through his chest.  What does that tell you Nora?  He's not to be trusted and the longer you go along with his plan the deeper you dig your hole.  And you're parents are going to find out about it.  You're not that smart and you do stupid things all the time.

I actually don't mind Sherloque.  At least he is smart enough not to trust everything that comes out of Nora's mouth.  I'm hoping that while he was successfully temporarily diverted by meeting his otl Renee on this earth that he gets back to trying to figure out what Nora is up to.  Although I'm baffled by the fact that he couldn't figure out who Nora was working with based on who protected her in her mind last week.  Also why haven't Barry and Iris questioned her about that?  Why hasn't anyone questioned anything this season?  

I don't know what happened with the Flash this season in the writing room but the writing is bad.  Character interaction is terrible.  The plot lines are not that great.  Cisco is just completely wasted this season.  The writing for him is either nonexistent or ooc.  He would never be so gung ho about a meta cure let alone using it on someone against their will.  Was there even an explanation for his absence this episode?  I don't feel that Barry and he are close friends at all.  I don't necessarily feel that any of them are great friends tbh.  Their interactions with each other are so shallow.  

Same thing with Barry and Iris and I can't blame the actors if the writing isn't there to support it.  The Flash has never been great with love scenes.  Ever.  No one is getting any love scenes not just Barry and Iris.  Its a problem but its not one that they necessarily care to fix.  This is season five.  I really wish that they would bring in either a new showrunner or new writing staff cause it just gets worse and worse.

The Cicada stuff is neither here nor there imo.  He's just not an interesting enough villain to be concerned about.  The team has had so many chances to defeat him and most of the time they either just stand there or let him go.  Why did it take them so long to find out where he lived?  Barry works at a police station.  They have the smartest computers known to man at star labs.  They know what he looks like, what hospital his niece is in a coma in.  They even know his first name and its super unusual one so finding him couldn't nearly have been the hardship that they have made it.  

I used to love The Flash and its still the number one show on the CW but I don't know if that's really saying much, almost half the viewership is gone.  I just want it to be as good as it used to be and I feel like we get further and further away from that with every episode.

Edited February 6, 2019 by blugirlami21

[Kate45]

2 hours ago, cdnalor said:

Cicada is a serial killer.  Is that not enough justification to remove his powers the same way you would take away his liberty by imprisonment?

His powers aren’t killing people. His dagger is killing people. I’m not so sure that removing his powers would do anything. If he still has access to the dagger, he should still be able to kill. 

Either way, Caitlin didn’t make an exception for bad metas from my recollection. She simply said that it should NEVER be forced on any metas and suddenly she dropped her hesitation without a care.