S14.E11: Damaged Goods

[Pondlass1]

44 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I am all for Dean and Donna having all the sexy times

Not me. I'm too selfish to share Dean with anyone.  Fantasizing about sexy times involving Dean and ME (I?) got me through a horrid dentist visit once.

[BabySpinach]

One interesting Sam moment I noticed was his condemnation of Nick. Whenever Sam identifies with someone else and gives them extra chances (usually because they share something in common with him) he never completely changes his mind about them, and he's upset if they die/relapse. This may be the first time I've ever seen him do a complete 180 and basically say "have fun in Hell" to one of his self-designated "mirrors". It was totally deserved and earned, of course, but it was a noteworthy character beat for Sam. We don't get a lot of those.

It'd be a nice development for him to stop projecting himself onto others so strongly, since it can be a pretty dangerous thing to do in his line of work (eg. Amy the Kitsune) and his moral compass/common sense can vary wildly depending on his personal stake in the matter.

But in Nick's case, I have to say it was definitely more Cas' fault for being unable to keep one human dude safe in the bunker. Seriously, why is Cas written as so consistently incompetent, last week's episode excluded?

[Myrelle]

3 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Then we get this supposedly heart warming story about Winchester Suprise that ends up with John getting upset because Dean didnt' do it right.  

I'm supposed to find that heart warming.

 

3 hours ago, juppschmitz said:

My thoughts exactly. What a shitty childhood Dean had, getting chewed out for trying to make food and getting it wrong.

This was sad beyond measure to me, as was Dean being completely unable to talk with anyone about the horrific death waiting for him. And Jensen made that fear so very palpable in that last scene with Sam. I still feel so disturbed by all of this.

 

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

Dean building the super-impossible box in like a couple hours? Yay, for competency.

Ditto and I floved(tm-Aeryn) that welding scene, too. 

[Myrelle]

32 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

But Dean...  ::sigh:::  And he spoke Latin ::sigh::

I want/need more of Dean Latinating, Show.

[Casseiopeia]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Huh. That is weird. I would have put money on Singer. Phil seems to  be generally more crafty and more artistic with his work. I always appreciate how he lingers on faces and uses  more natural lighting like the scene with Dean and Donna. And that note, since my Destiel shipper heart won't ever get that canonically, I am all for Dean and Donna having all the sexy times and sharing burgers and beer in bed and out. I love them together.

I 100% did not appreciate the show dumbing down Donna so Nick could get the drop on her. She's too smart for that.

I legit did laugh when Nick told Sam it was never about him. I thought well he's not wrong! But please make Nick and  Mark P go away now.

[AwesomO4000]

15 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

One interesting Sam moment I noticed was his condemnation of Nick. Whenever Sam identifies with someone else and gives them extra chances (usually because they share something in common with him) he never completely changes his mind about them, and he's upset if they die/relapse. This may be the first time I've ever seen him do a complete 180 and basically say "have fun in Hell" to one of his self-designated "mirrors". It was totally deserved and earned, of course, but it was a noteworthy character beat for Sam. We don't get a lot of those.

I think Sam did a 180 on the Rugaru in "Metamorphosis," barely hesitating to burn him up after he went "bad," and he did say in the end that Dean was right to kill Amy Pond, too, but yeah, I guess he still did feel kind of bad about it at the same time, too.

I would've felt better about this character growth / beat for Sam if it had been framed as more of something he'd more come to on his own, but the argument with and dressing down from Dean earlier in the episode kind of diluted that for me. It turned it into what could've been a Sam learning something on his own moment that could've been something like a "you know what, I keep giving people like you a chance, and it keeps biting me in the butt. You've finally shown me that it - and especially you - are just not worth it" into more of a "Dean was right about this" moment.

I'd say more on this in terms of writer tone, etc., but I'd have to take it to the "Bitch vs Jerk" thread, and I'm not in the mood for that right now. I'm just more resigned than irritated / angry.

[juppschmitz]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

As for the editing, whoever is in charge these days should be fired. It's terrible, 99% of the time.

So is the background music.

[ahrtee]

4 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I would've felt better about this character growth / beat for Sam if it had been framed as more of something he'd more come to on his own, but the argument with and dressing down from Dean earlier in the episode kind of diluted that for me. It turned it into what could've been a Sam learning something on his own moment that could've been something like a "you know what, I keep giving people like you a chance, and it keeps biting me in the butt. You've finally shown me that it - and especially you - are just not worth it" into more of a "Dean was right about this" moment.

Except that, IIRC, Sam countered Dean's "dressing down" with his "I was being compassionate," which was *not* framed as being wrong but rather that he gives people a chance and Dean just condemns without thinking.  I don't see that as saying that Dean was right, except in this particular instance.   It appears to me to be framing Dean as consistently wrong because he's too judgmental, whereas Sam's fault is being *too* compassionate/empathetic, so that even if it turns out to be wrong it was the "right" thing to give him/her/it a chance.  And yes, I don't want to go into BvJ here, because basically they both react according to their emotional blinders instead of using logic on a case-by-case basis or, Chuck forbid, *listening* to each other's reasons for trust/mistrust, and finding some ground in the middle instead of all or nothing.   JMO.  

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, BabySpinach said:

But in Nick's case, I have to say it was definitely more Cas' fault for being unable to keep one human dude safe in the bunker.

I don't think he was supposed to keep him in the bunker against his will, was he? They were treating him like a normal human being (which is patently stupid, in and of itself), so when he said he wanted to go, I don't think they could/would have physically stopped him. I still reject the whole premise of 'Nick' still being alive/a person, but the idea that he could have housed Lucifer for so long and come out of it with a few stiff muscles and a headache is just beyond the pale.

49 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

<3 that is a great selfie!

[PAForrest]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Oh, but you know, it's okay that nobody acknowledged his 40th birthday (even if it's not exactly Jan 24 on the show, it's friggin 2019 - they know he's turned/turning 40), because the combination to the storage locker lock is his birthdate. See???!! Mary loves him!!  *barf*

Absolutely nothing about her rang the least bit sincere in this episode - and once again, ALL the effort is from Dean's side, up to and including denigrating his own cooking abilities as to make her feel better about her own shortcomings. Seriously, fuck you, show.

And yet, if you notice, who was the one in the kitchen with the oven mitts on taking the casserole out of the oven - and who seemingly actually cooked the damn thing? It certainly wasn't Mary, so I don't know if Perez was actually going for a little subtlety there - having Dean try and make anti-domestic Mary feel better by claiming he too couldn't cook, even though he can and clearly did? Or was it just another canonical fail within the episode itself? Since it's Perez, the safe bet is most likely on the latter.

Obviously the only reason Dean even asked for said casserole in the first place is because he knew whiskey-slugging Mary wouldn't have the ingredients in the cabin, so it was a way to get her gone for what seemed like hours. Seriously, how far away was that store?

As for the combo thing, I missed that due to judicious use of the FF button during the worthless Nick plot. But, yeah, it's way too little anyway - not getting any warm and fuzzies off of it.

[Lemuria]

4 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

One part I did like was Nick telling Sam it wasn't about him.  I've been waiting 14 years for someone to say those words.

Uh uh *Nods head vigorously*  I admit to rolling my eyes when Sam's defense to Dean about his letting Nick go was really All. About. Sam. And how what if it were him etc etc.  Once again, Sam seems to see everything in terms of how closely it relates to himself.  I mean, he didn't have any "compassion" for the hosts of the wannabe King of Hell and his minions in Ep. 1:  his great plan involved (in addition to bringing along two basically useless and barely trained neophytes) having his people burst in and shoot up the demons' hosts, without knowing if any of them had still been alive.

 

Edited to add: I do agree with the post that Sam's telling Nick to burn in Hell was a step forward for Sam in this regard.  

Edited January 25, 2019 by Lemuria

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, Lemuria said:

Uh uh *Nods head vigorously*  I admit to rolling my eyes when Sam's defense to Dean about his letting Nick go was really All. About. Sam. And how what if it were him etc etc.  Once again, Sam seems to see everything in terms of how closely it relates to himself.  I mean, he didn't have any "compassion" for the hosts of the wannabe King of Hell and his minions in Ep. 1:  his great plan involved (in addition to bringing along two basically useless and barely trained neophytes) having his people burst in and shoot up the demons' hosts, without knowing if any of them had still been alive.

I'm surprised "Chief' didn't stomp his foot and tell the demon to go away.

[AwesomO4000]

10 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

It appears to me to be framing Dean as consistently wrong because he's too judgmental, whereas Sam's fault is being *too* compassionate/empathetic, so that even if it turns out to be wrong it was the "right" thing to give him/her/it a chance. 

Except except for Lenore - who in the end also went "bad" - Sam is usually wrong about these things.

It can't really be "right" for Sam to give them a chance when he turns out to be wrong about doing so, whereas Dean's judgement is usually correct, so being "judgemental" isn't usually show as Dean being wrong, in my opinion. One of the biggest early examples shown in the show was "Croatoan," even when Sam was at first apparently right about supposedly letting the kid go, it was actually Dean who was right after all in the end. Sam should have shot the kid, because he turned out to be a demon who killed an innocent person ...something they might have known if Sam had shot him and he hadn't died rather than hesitating, because "he was a kid."

Sam being too compassionate concerning the monsters is hardly ever framed as a positive in terms of his being a hunter... just as it wasn't here either. (And ironically, the one time it's shown that Sam should have definitely been compassionate about a monster - Benny - suddenly he isn't.)

I am saying I would have liked it better if Sam had finally come to the conclusion that he shouldn't have been so forgiving / compassionate with Nick without having to get an "I told you so" beforehand.

[PAForrest]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

And that note, since my Destiel shipper heart won't ever get that canonically, I am all for Dean and Donna having all the sexy times and sharing burgers and beer in bed and out. I love them together.

I 100% did not appreciate the show dumbing down Donna so Nick could get the drop on her. She's too smart for that.

I legit did laugh when Nick told Sam it was never about him. I thought well he's not wrong! But please make Nick and  Mark P go away now.

Dean/Donna is a guilty pleasure of mine too, and of all the females Dean knows or has known over the last few years, she's the one I just think would be perfect for him. The burger scene up to the sweet goodbye was one of the best things from last night's episode. I even got ridiculously happy when Donna said she and Doug had broken up - it means she's available for Dean! LOL!

(At one time I had a Destiel heart and always envisioned the perfect due South ending for the pair, where fans could interpret whatever the hell they wanted after that. But canonically and fanonically, things have soured me on that score.)

And, no, I didn't like the dumbing down of Donna for Nick's sake, but I don't like anything they've done or are doing with Nick, especially keeping him around in any capacity in the first place!

Edited January 25, 2019 by PAForrest

[Wynne88]

As far as the 'happy 40th birthday' goes, I'm guessing that TPTB are reluctant to remind their younger audience just how old one of the leading men is.  When you're 17, 40 seems pretty darn old as I recall.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Wynne88 said:

As far as the 'happy 40th birthday' goes, I'm guessing that TPTB are reluctant to remind their younger audience just how old one of the leading men is.  When you're 17, 40 seems pretty darn old as I recall.

Yep, when I was a teenager, to me 40 = one foot in the grave.  

[gonzosgirrl]

3 hours ago, Wynne88 said:

As far as the 'happy 40th birthday' goes, I'm guessing that TPTB are reluctant to remind their younger audience just how old one of the leading men is.  When you're 17, 40 seems pretty darn old as I recall.

To me it's more about the odds of a hunter reaching 40 that deserves a nod. And the episode airing on the 24th... it's not like this show is above meta. Frankly, I'm surprised the resisted the opportunity to give Dean the gears.

[annspal]

23 hours ago, SueB said:

I loved Mary in this episode.  Lots of great facial reactions by Sam Smith.  The sweet smile she had looking at snoring Dean was my highlight.  I also liked how she handled Nick.  She did a great job slowing him down every step of the way.  

I especially loved her Dean-like reaction as Nick was checking the first locker contents. She seemed to give a "Yep, that's right" acknowledgment to his "Really, is that what I think it is?" only to follow it up with sneaking a double-check herself at what was in there. :D

[trudysmom]

3 hours ago, PinkChicken said:

I thought that it was weird that it was only 1/2 finished when Mary found it, but its completed when he tells Sam, like they gave him a day in between "tell him or I will" so that it was ready for a proper reveal, as if Sam would have waited that long before poking around.

Yeah that was strange.  Mary's storage locker was another strange bit.  What are we supposed to take from the weird crap in there? That this is another reason we should see her as some badass hunter who keeps evil things literally locked away?  To me it just looked creepy, even more so with her little grin and shrug at Nick, like "heh, so I to keep like gross floaty heads around, just in case, ya know?" 

SueB mentioned about Billie wanting revenge for Dean killing OG Death.  While I can sort of see that, she does seem  vindictive, and she loves the whole "big dumb Winchester" line when she's fussing at them, her talk with Dean in her reading room (to me) means she has to consider the big picture more now that she's Death, and let Dean live because he and Sam are "important". IIRC there was the "you have work to do" line.  So, have they done it?  Because after they found Cas was alive (again) they re-opened the rift, they went universe hopping and brought back people, entities from the AU, but did they do the "work" she alluded to? When she gave him the book she chastised him for universe hopping, again, but is that, and the Rowena situation, enough for her to write Dean off?  

And on the subject of Billie, could she build a wall in Dean's mind they way OG Death did for Sam, to contain Michael? I know for Sam it was memories that he needed to keep walled shut and not an archangel, but if they can jump into someone's head so easily, they could at least ask her, or go back in themselves and reinforce the door with a crapton of concrete or something, lol. 

[Wateroflife]

What was up with that music cue when Dean grabbed his bag from the trunk and went to the shed. It was like the XFiles theme with extra Bongos, or something from CSI Miami. Woof! It stuck out like fingers on a chalkboard.

Also, did anyone else find that Guess Who song a little too on the nose? No time left left for you, I've found myself some wings? Really guys?

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Wateroflife said:

What was up with that music cue when Dean grabbed his bag from the trunk and went to the shed. It was like the XFiles theme with extra Bongos, or something from CSI Miami. Woof! It stuck out like fingers on a chalkboard.

Also, did anyone else find that Guess Who song a little too on the nose? No time left left for you, I've found myself some wings? Really guys?

I don't know what had happened to the music in this show. I liked the song but do see your point that it was too on the nose. The score has been IMO , generally, not great.They snuck in Dean's Family Theme for a hot minute, which I highly appreciated.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

What was up with that music cue when Dean grabbed his bag from the trunk and went to the shed. It was like the XFiles theme with extra Bongos, or something from CSI Miami. Woof! It stuck out like fingers on a chalkboard.

Also, did anyone else find that Guess Who song a little too on the nose? No time left left for you, I've found myself some wings? Really guys?

I`m starting to feel really old because couple years back SPN was the WB/CW show that had good classic rock and all the other CW shows had, what Kripke once called, "emo pop". But I really enjoyed both of them. 

Now I think SPN has so-so song picks and the emo pop that is blaring in the other CW shows is often terrible. I know it`s not that I dislike either musical brand because, see above, So is this the current taste and they have just passed me by so much?   

[trudysmom]

1 hour ago, Wateroflife said:

Also, did anyone else find that Guess Who song a little too on the nose? No time left left for you, I've found myself some wings? Really guys?

I was just so happy to hear a classic rock song, I forgave the glaringly obvious.  Not much imagination in the music selection, but it still made me happy.

[Wateroflife]

57 minutes ago, trudysmom said:

I was just so happy to hear a classic rock song, I forgave the glaringly obvious.  Not much imagination in the music selection, but it still made me happy.

That's true. And there have been some great tracks in later seasons (Steppenwolf in Adv. Thanatology was super awesome, if also a bit on the nose). But I sometimes think the music supervisor picks them solely based on their nose-adjacent lyrics. Kripke (obviously) and pals really made more of an effort to pick kick a** songs that really boosted the atmosphere in earlier seasons. I guess (to quote my favorite t-shirt) I have gotten old and cranky where music is concerned.

(Just realized last week I was complimenting the lyrics fit and this week I'm ragging on it. In my defense, I like The Marshall Tucker Band a lot more than The Guess Who. *Shrug*)

Edited January 26, 2019 by Wateroflife
Cause I realized I'm being a bit of a hypocrite

[FierceCritter]

On 1/25/2019 at 9:55 AM, catrox14 said:

That was awesome. I'm glad that someone in the writer's room or on the show decided to remember that Dean does know the exorcism spells and that he can build things quite handily.  It made sense to me that he could weld because surely he had to have welded a couple of things when he rebuilt Baby lo those many times. 

I don't memorize specific episodes, but there was one that Sam and Dean traded off back and forth to get the entire spell out.  THAT rocked my world.

Hunky dudes spewing Latin. What is it??? OMG...

Edited January 26, 2019 by FierceCritter

[juppschmitz]

1 hour ago, FierceCritter said:

I don't memorize specific episodes, but there was one that Sam and Dean traded off back and forth to get the entire spell out.  THAT rocked my world.

Hunky dudes spewing Latin. What is it??? OMG...

Dean and that young kid/not!Sam did it in Swap Meat, and it was glorious! I was wondering why Sam/Mary/Donna didn't chime in... Oh, yes, because Dabb/Perez.

[Aeryn13]

Didn`t everyone trade in with latinating in the Asa Fox episode? Towards the end? 

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

Didn`t everyone trade in with latinating in the Asa Fox episode? Towards the end? 

I think so.

[juppschmitz]

57 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Didn`t everyone trade in with latinating in the Asa Fox episode? Towards the end? 

Oh yeah, I think you're right.

[FierceCritter]

2 hours ago, juppschmitz said:

Dean and that young kid/not!Sam did it in Swap Meat, and it was glorious! I was wondering why Sam/Mary/Donna didn't chime in... Oh, yes, because Dabb/Perez.

Pretty sure there was another one with Actual Sam and Dean. I think they were getting the snot kicked out of them by a demon... damn my cruddy memory. I can picture it.

I'll look at Swap Meat when I get home and see if that's actually what I'm remembering.

[SueB]

33 minutes ago, FierceCritter said:

Pretty sure there was another one with Actual Sam and Dean. I think they were getting the snot kicked out of them by a demon... damn my cruddy memory. I can picture it.

I'll look at Swap Meat when I get home and see if that's actually what I'm remembering.

Celebrating the Life of Asa Fox

[annspal]

11 hours ago, trudysmom said:

Mary's storage locker was another strange bit.  What are we supposed to take from the weird crap in there? That this is another reason we should see her as some badass hunter who keeps evil things literally locked away?  To me it just looked creepy, even more so with her little grin and shrug at Nick, like "heh, so I to keep like gross floaty heads around, just in case, ya know?" 

I definitely recoiled when I recognized what was in the lockers. (What? Spare parts?) At took me a beat to see it as trapping currently-incapacitated-but-potentially-still-viable monsters. (Simple padlocks don't compare with an Enochian puzzle box or even Original Bobby's curse box, though.) Sam and Dean must have multiple stashes like this. Was it the leviathans that weren't ended by simple decapitation? Abaddon? 

I don't know if I dislike - or love! - that Mary's shotgun booby trap echoed so closely what we've seen before. I know I wish she'd had a secondary trap set to spring. Did anyone else have their eyes peeled for the Castle Storage sign?

[SueB]

31 minutes ago, annspal said:

I definitely recoiled when I recognized what was in the lockers. (What? Spare parts?) At took me a beat to see it as trapping currently-incapacitated-but-potentially-still-viable monsters. (Simple padlocks don't compare with an Enochian puzzle box or even Original Bobby's curse box, though.) Sam and Dean must have multiple stashes like this. Was it the leviathans that weren't ended by simple decapitation? Abaddon? 

I don't know if I dislike - or love! - that Mary's shotgun booby trap echoed so closely what we've seen before. I know I wish she'd had a secondary trap set to spring. Did anyone else have their eyes peeled for the Castle Storage sign?

Well they WERE warded (sigils).  But any normal person that didn't get their legs shot off would be able to break the lock, just like Nick.  I think I also saw a Devil's trap.  But again... humans at risk. 

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, annspal said:

I don't know if I dislike - or love! - that Mary's shotgun booby trap echoed so closely what we've seen before. I know I wish she'd had a secondary trap set to spring. Did anyone else have their eyes peeled for the Castle Storage sign?

I sort of was, but was glad there wasn't.  Because John's Castle Storage was somewhere in New York state.  And, they started out in MN and I'm really sick of the five minute cross country jaunts.

[annspal]

56 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Because John's Castle Storage was somewhere in New York state.

Right. But, I figure by now it's kind of a Biggerson in-universe chain. I associate it first with John, of course, but it also showed up with Crowley. Wasn't that where he held Mama Tran a lot closer to Kansas? No matter, though, since they didn't re-use the name (or great sign!).

[MysteryGuest]

Just now watched the episode.  I enjoyed all but the Nickifer stuff...please make it end.  Nick is even less interesting than Lucifer was.  And are we now supposed to believe they're going to just lock him up and throw away the key?  Yeah, right.

I have to say that I am getting tired of the constant self-sacrificing on the show.  Whether allowing himself to be jettisoned into space (or the Empty) by death, blowing himself up with Amara, or now sailing off into the sunset with Michael, it's the same exact plot.  Dean isn't going to die (permanently), and Jensen isn't leaving the show, so why not try something a bit different?  

But I did enjoy the farewell tour.  Dean's time with Mary was well done, I thought.  It's still a strange situation for both of them, which it would be, but there was definite love and affection there.  I don't know why that's so difficult for them to show more often between Mary and her sons.  

I always love seeing Donna.  She and Dean are fun together.

Sam and Dean have been in this position so many times before, but it never gets any easier.  Sam may say he agrees with Dean for now, but I don't believe it for a second.  He may put Dean in the box, but there's no way he's tossing him in the ocean.  He'll just keep him on ice until they can find another option.  

All in all, this season has picked up quite a bit in the last few episodes.  Only 8 episodes left, which includes the 300th, so that's not a lot of time to wrap things up.  Hopefully, it means those remaining episodes will be action packed.

[MysteryGuest]

Each of these characters, Dean, Sam and Cas has made this exact same decision about a million times.  And each time one of them does it, the others do their best to talk them out of it.  Cas already has his secret pact with the Empty Keeper, but that won't stop him from weighing in on Dean's decision.  It's what they do.  They would each willingly sacrifice themselves, but they don't want the others to have to do that.  I know it's redundant, but I'm not sure how they get around it, since it's a main theme of the show.

[tessathereaper]

On 1/25/2019 at 6:32 PM, Katy M said:

Yep, when I was a teenager, to me 40 = one foot in the grave.  

It wasn't for me.  Hell I had a crush on Harrison Ford when I was 12(and he was 40).  Hot is hot, age never bothered me. :)

[tennisgurl]

The amount of self sacrificing on this show, especially from the main characters, is so common, its practically a running gag at this point. I wish they could find something new to drive the story for a little bit, just to change things up.

[auntvi]

On 1/26/2019 at 8:48 PM, MysteryGuest said:

Dean isn't going to die (permanently), and Jensen isn't leaving the show, so why not try something a bit different? 

The big self-sacrifice bit at least once every season is now way too predictable. It would be so great to see something original!

[FlickChick]

21 hours ago, auntvi said:

The big self-sacrifice bit at least once every season is now way too predictable. It would be so great to see something original!

Alas, with this writing crew and showrunner, all we'll get is uninspired, regurgitated storylines AKA: second verse, same as the first. All we can hope for at this point is a halfway decent episode every now and then and some good acting from our stars.

[Bergamot]

As a follow-up to the previous episode, this was kind of letdown, but maybe it was only because of how much I liked the one before.  There were some really good scenes, but way too much of Nick.  I fast-forwarded most of that stuff when re-watching because, like many others, I could not care less about Nick, and having to do this made it obvious to me how big a portion of the episode was about him.

I badly want Nick's story to be over, but I fear it is not. Hopefully Sam is really through with him. I actually disagree with Sam's saying that he could have ended up like Nick. There have been many, many people on the show who were possessed by a demon (or an angel), and there was never any indication that it turned the human evil afterward if they survived, or that they retained demonic (or angelic) traits. If I recall correctly, until now the only person who was a psycho murderer after being possessed turned out to have been one all along (in "Repo Man").

 

On 1/25/2019 at 11:35 AM, Pondlass1 said:

They are trying with Mother, but the actress just does not exude warmth.  And just how far did she have to go to get the fixings for the Winchester Heart Attack?  Outer Mongolia?  Dean welded a whole damn fancy box in her absence.

But Dean...  ::sigh:::  And he spoke Latin ::sigh::

 

On 1/25/2019 at 11:35 AM, Pondlass1 said:

But ... Dean... ::sigh:: I loved all the bits with Dean.  Even the snoring.

LOL, Pondlass, I know what you mean! I was sighing over Dean in this one as well! If they had an extended version of the scene with Dean measuring and cutting and welding, I would watch every minute! Repeatedly.

As for Mary's day-long trip to pick up some groceries, well, that's pretty typical of this writer, isn't it? I mean, to have a character disappear from the story for an unexplained period of time because the writer wanted them off-stage but didn't want to bother writing a plausible explanation? I believe that Perez has done this more than once, and it's a bad habit. Most egregiously, in his first episode, where at one point Dean peels out in the Impala to race to Sam's rescue and apparently takes all night to get there, arriving in the morning after everything is over.

I agree that they did try harder with Mary, and I didn't hate all her scenes this time. Mostly because Dean is so adorable when he is in little-boy mode, so those scenes worked for me. For some reason, I just melted when he told her that "I have a surprise for you", and they go inside and he has set the table for their dinner. Awww.

Still, though, I have to admit that I was irked at her right off the bat, when Sam was on the phone with her the first time about Dean's visit.   "He said it was just a supply run, but I'll take any excuse for a visit," she says. She'll take any excuse for a visit?!  Unless Bobby was keeping her chained up in that cabin, if Mary was longing to see her sons, and maybe even spend some quality time with them, all she had to do was go to the bunker and do it.

And unfortunately this matters because we have seen no indication since she returned that Mary particularly wants to spend time with her sons, and in fact have seen a lot of evidence to the contrary. Okay, whatever, Mary can do what she wants.  I don't care.  But I don't like it when the writers expect us to forget what we have already seen on the show.

 

On 1/25/2019 at 11:59 AM, Myrelle said:

On 1/25/2019 at 8:12 AM, juppschmitz said:

My thoughts exactly. What a shitty childhood Dean had, getting chewed out for trying to make food and getting it wrong.

This was sad beyond measure to me, as was Dean being completely unable to talk with anyone about the horrific death waiting for him. And Jensen made that fear so very palpable in that last scene with Sam. I still feel so disturbed by all of this.

Yes, me too. And not just in that last scene. When he and Mary were having dinner, and he is trying to be cheerful, he says something like, "Isn't this great, here we are having dinner together, no clouds on the horizon", and his voice kind of catches at the end, and you can see what he is actually thinking and feeling (Jensen is so good at that), and it kind of made me want to cry.

[trudysmom]

I have been one of the most vocal fans clamoring for no more Nick.  And on first watch, I kept thinking there was way too much, I didn't care!  But on re-watch, I won't say I cared exactly, but I can appreciate Pelligrino's performance.  He has overstayed his welcome on SPN, but the guy has range.  He was scary, heartless and determined, but also sympathetic in his determination to know why him, why his family.  

Mary, I've also been critical of.  Sadly this episode didn't help her case in my book.  I try seeing things from her perspective.  She was told all her life she was a hunter.  And ok she's good, I give her that.  She died, she had heaven with her little boys, then boom, no more heaven, back here as a hunter and two grown sons she doesn't know.  Strangers really.  But that's where things get muddy for me.  They didn't push her.  They let her hunt with them if she wanted to hunt, they let her relax if she needed to, they gave her John's journal so she could fill in some blanks.  But when she left the bunker, she left them.  Purposefully, just like she did when she went with Bobby this season.  Someone else was more important than spending time with and getting to know her sons who risked everything to get her back to this world--that she almost didn't even want to come back to because fighting in the AU was more important!!!  Anyway, with SueB in mind, I tried to see Mary with more of an open mind rewatching this episode.  I'm sad to say I still don't like her.  Given the writing could another actress make me feel differently?  I don't know, maybe.  It would be interesting to see.  

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, trudysmom said:

Mary with more of an open mind rewatching this episode.  I'm sad to say I still don't like her.  Given the writing could another actress make me feel differently?  I don't know, maybe.  It would be interesting to see.  

This is a fair point. I can't help but think if they could have gone with Amy Gumenick instead, I think maybe there would be more nuance to the role.  JMHO

[Cambion]

5 hours ago, trudysmom said:

I have been one of the most vocal fans clamoring for no more Nick.  And on first watch, I kept thinking there was way too much, I didn't care!  But on re-watch, I won't say I cared exactly, but I can appreciate Pelligrino's performance.  He has overstayed his welcome on SPN, but the guy has range.  He was scary, heartless and determined, but also sympathetic in his determination to know why him, why his family.  

Mary, I've also been critical of.  Sadly this episode didn't help her case in my book.  I try seeing things from her perspective.  She was told all her life she was a hunter.  And ok she's good, I give her that.  She died, she had heaven with her little boys, then boom, no more heaven, back here as a hunter and two grown sons she doesn't know.  Strangers really.  But that's where things get muddy for me.  They didn't push her.  They let her hunt with them if she wanted to hunt, they let her relax if she needed to, they gave her John's journal so she could fill in some blanks.  But when she left the bunker, she left them.  Purposefully, just like she did when she went with Bobby this season.  Someone else was more important than spending time with and getting to know her sons who risked everything to get her back to this world--that she almost didn't even want to come back to because fighting in the AU was more important!!!  Anyway, with SueB in mind, I tried to see Mary with more of an open mind rewatching this episode.  I'm sad to say I still don't like her.  Given the writing could another actress make me feel differently?  I don't know, maybe.  It would be interesting to see.  

 

ITA with your Nick comments.  If they wanted to keep Mark around, I wish they would have had him resolve his recent past with a different storyline than turning violent.  That's nothing more than Luci with a different name as far as I'm concerned.

I'm fairly ambivalent about Mary.  But what I think was a throwaway comment from one of the first eps after she returned keeps coming back to mind.  She says something to the effect of my sons are little boys.  Seems like the writers could have made good use of that, about how she isn't equipped to deal with adult children who are about the same age.  That would make a lot more sense for her behaviour I think.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Cambion

[FlickChick]

14 hours ago, Cambion said:

ITA with your Nick comments.  If they wanted to keep Mark around, I wish they would have had him resolve his recent past with a different storyline than turning violent.  That's nothing more than Luci with a different name as far as I'm concerned.

I, too, agree that Pelligrino has range and is a good actor, but also agree that the writers should have gone with a different direction in his storyline. I think that many fans are really, really, tired of either Lucifer or Nickifer on their screen sucking up time for other potential storylines.

[supposebly]

Wow Supernatural has gone on way too long.  Not that this is news exactly.

That final conversation between Sam and Dean was pretty much the same one that we've had at some point in season 3 and then again at the end of season 5. Maybe another one like this when he was about to be Mark-of-Cained. I have forgotten most of season 9 and 10. 

Dean doing the suicide thing, telling Sam he can't help and Sam protesting. The only difference was Dean asking Sam for his help in doing this. Which is kinda worse. And unbelievable.

[tessathereaper]

19 hours ago, supposebly said:

Wow Supernatural has gone on way too long.  Not that this is news exactly.

That final conversation between Sam and Dean was pretty much the same one that we've had at some point in season 3 and then again at the end of season 5. Maybe another one like this when he was about to be Mark-of-Cained. I have forgotten most of season 9 and 10. 

Dean doing the suicide thing, telling Sam he can't help and Sam protesting. The only difference was Dean asking Sam for his help in doing this. Which is kinda worse. And unbelievable.

In Season 5 Dean was supposed to help Sam jump into the pit.  In fact before he knew that Lucifer had immediately taken over Sam, he was HELPING Sam get to the opening.

[supposebly]

I was referring to the Dean saying yes to Michael situation in Point of no Return.

[ahrtee]

Rewatched today, and this is the only thing I could think of :

ETA: Because no matter how many times they've each tried to sacrifice themselves over the years,  these two are *exactly the same*: one offering to lock himself away for eternity with an insane archangel as the  way to save the world.  But the reaction from the other.......yes, it still makes me very, very angry.

SEASON 5:

SAM: You're gonna let me say yes?

DEAN: No. That's the thing. It's not on me to let you do anything. You're a grown – well, overgrown – man. If this is what you want, I'll back your play.

SAM: That's the last thing I thought you'd ever say.

DEAN: Might be. I'm not gonna lie to you, though. It goes against every fiber I got. I mean, truth is... You know, watching out for you... it's kinda been my job, you know? But more than that, it's... it's kinda who I am. You're not a kid anymore, Sam, and I can't keep treating you like one. Maybe I got to grow up a little, too. I don't know if we got a snowball's chance. But... But I do know that if anybody can do it... it's you.

SAM: Thank you.

DEAN: If this is what you want... Is this really what you want?

SAM: I let him out. I got to put him back in.

DEAN: Okay. That's it, then.

*****

SAM: This thing goes our way and I...Triple Lindy into that box... y-you know I'm not coming back.

DEAN: Yeah, I'm aware.

SAM: So you got to promise me something.

DEAN: Okay. Yeah. Anything.

SAM: You got to promise not to try to bring me back.

DEAN: What? No, I didn't sign up for that.

SAM: Dean --

DEAN: Your Hell is gonna make my tour look like Graceland. You want me just to sit by and do nothing?

SAM: Once the Cage is shut, you can't go poking at it, Dean. It's too risky.

DEAN: No, no, no, no, no. As if I'm just gonna let you rot in there.

SAM: Yeah, you are. You don't have a choice.

**************************************************

SEASON 14:

SAM: That’s your plan? You want to be buried alive?

DEAN: Buried’s not safe enough. Plan is, pay a little hush money, charter a boat to take me out to the Pacific. Splash.

SAM: You and Michael, trapped together – for eternity?

DEAN: Yeah.

SAM: You do realise how insane this is, right?

DEAN: It’s the only sane play I’ve got. Michael gets out, that’s it for this world. And he will get out.

***********

SAM: “Sorry.” How sorry are you? Sorry that you fight to keep Donatello alive, but when it comes to you, you just throw in the towel? Or are you sorry that, after all these years, our entire lives, a-after I’ve looked up to you, after I’ve learned from you, I-I-I’ve copied you, I followed you to Hell and back… are you sorry that all of that it – it – it means nothing now?

DEAN: Who’s saying that?

SAM: You are, when you tell me I have to kill you. When you’re telling me that I have to just throw away everything we stand for, throw away faith, throw away family. We’re the guys who saved the world. We don’t just check out of it!

[SAM pushes DEAN.]

DEAN: Sam, I have tried everything. Everything! I got one card left to play and I have to play it.

SAM: You have one card today! But we’ll find another tomorrow. But if you quit on us today, there will be no tomorrow! You tell me, uh, you don’t know what else to do. I don’t either, Dean. Not yet. But what you’re doing now, i-it’s – it’s wrong! It’s quitting! I mean, l-look what just happened. Donatello never quit fighting. So we could help him because he never gave up.

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by ahrtee