S05.E09: He Betrayed Us Both

[Bort]

Quote

Now that Connor and Oliver have tied the knot, the crew must deal with the consequences of the wedding night’s murder; and Annalise is forced to reckon with secrets from her past.

Airdate: Thursday, January 17, 2019

[UNOSEZ]

Good episode... Looking FWD to Gabriel coming clean to the Keating 5... Viola was Viola and knocked it out the park... You really see the beginning of the bond bonnie and frank have with her and how fiercely they want to protect her

[pennben]

Famke!!  There had been so many mentions of Hannah, I was expecting to see Marcia Gay Harden.  Completely surprised to see Famke. 

That was a really fantastic episode. It could have been just as fantastic and complicated and threatening to the group had they not killed th DA. 

Great start to back end. 

[Annber03]

Eve! Good to see her again-and I'll be very curious to see what she does, or what she encourages Annalise to do, regarding all this stuff with Gabriel and Vivian and so on. 

Also liked the flashbacks-it's weird to see Sam so sentimental about Gabriel, knowing how shitty he is in general. But it had me wondering what would've happened had he not died and he'd gotten a chance to build a relationship with his son? I also liked seeing Bonnie being there for Annalise back in the day and helping her though such a tough time, and Annalise's grief over her loss, both of her own baby and her chance at adopting Christoph, was heartbreaking. She really just cannot catch a break when it comes to her chance at having a child of her own. 

I also like Nate offering to keep Bonnie's role in MIller's death quiet, and the attempts to try and help alleviate her guilt. Let's see how long that secret about Miller lasts once the Keating gang finds out he's dead :p. 

Some good stuff setting up for the back half of this season here. Can't wait to see how this all plays out. 

[colorbars]

EVE! I'm so happy to see her both because I love her and have been rooting for an Eve/Annalise endgame always, but also because I'm glad I was right about one thing this season - that she was the one Frank was talking to. I thought it had to be her, because she's the only one that we knew from that timeline that would care to protect Annalise, but I had lost hope of seeing her again. Glad to be both right and wrong.

Loved the flasback stuff, especially the post suicide attempt scene with Bonnie and Annalise. Their scenes are always great to me, Liza and Viola work so well together.

I really enjoy the Bonnie/Frank dynamic too, and think the actors have a great chemistry (which isn't always true of real life couples, if they're still together). I kind of wish the show would drop Frank/Laurel and go with Frank/Bonnie, because I think they work together well, but I doubt they ever will.

Glad Nate tried to give Bonnie some peace of mind. I pretty much do think he's right, with how bad Miller looked, but I think Bonnie knows she would have done it anyways, so it doesn't really bring her much comfort.

[tennisgurl]

Eve! So happy to see Eve! I have always loved Eve/Annalise, will we get an Evalise (do we have a name for them?) end game? I hope so, they seem to really get each other, and they actually have a healthy relationship, which is pretty freaking impressive on this show.

Great start to the season! Loved the flashbacks, and Viola was amazing as ever, dealing with her grief over her son, and being unable to adopt another child to love, and the current story line was interesting as well. Its super weird that the K5 really have no clue what is going on, and are all just trying to play catch up! Guys, for once, you didnt accidentally or on purpose kill anyone! Just enjoy that! Seeing Sam is weird, I was pretty much done with him as a character, but it looks like he will become relevant again. I almost expect to see Lila, Rebecca, and the spinning cheerleader again!

Poor Annalise just had no luck with kids, although she clearly wants to be a mom so badly. No wonder she has ended up playing mom to the K5, despite their drama and many, MANY issues and accidental murders. 

Connor and Oliver a whole five seconds of honeymoon before they get called in for more secretes and lies and whatnot. Their conversation at the end was sweet, especially after Connors dad said that super weird thing to Oliver at their reception about having to curb his impulses. The fuck? 

I know that ship has probably sailed, but I could really get into Frank/Bonnie. They have great chemistry, and they have been through so much together. They also know about each others dark sides, and are cool with it.

[NUguy514]

I was bored by most of the flashbacks this episode (which meant I was bored by most of the episode since it was almost all flashbacks) because they were so Sam-heavy; he sucks, and I have less than no interest in that shithead or his tedious progeny.  Viola and Liza were, as always, great in their scenes, though, and Eve is always welcome.  Evalise 4eva!

[Lady Calypso]

Eve! I honestly never thought she'd return, so I'm glad that she has. I didn't really think she could be the Her that Frank's been talking to because I didn't think the actress would come back. 

I'll admit that I'm not really liking this season for a few reasons, and I'm so, so, so very tired of Sam (he's dead! Move on, show!). However, I think having the flashbacks take up the majority of the episode was nice. I have wanted to see more of young Annalise, Bonnie and Frank, so getting more on them was good. I just really think that we need to know more about our present day characters (Keating Five) than dead characters like Sam and even Wes. That's where the show is losing me this season. 

Again, some great acting from the older cast this episode, especially Viola and Tom Verica, but I'm not really liking where this season is going. 

Dante Verica was cute, though, as young Gabriel. 

[wanderingstar]

Ok, we get it show: Sam was a terrible husband and person. Can we PLEASE move on from this character. 

I don't think there's anything that can make me care about Gabriel.

Nice to see Eve again.

I'm still salty about Nate and Bonnie co-killing Miller.

So, Annalise had tried to adopt Baby Christophe. I felt bad for her that it didn't work out, but Sam was kinda right - she wasn't in the right frame of mind to be making such a life altering decision. Ugh! Show, don't make me agree with Sam!

Are we going down the Micasher road again? I guess that's fine. 

I thought it was funny that Coliver actually thought they were going to have a normal wedding night. Bless their hearts.

I don't know - I'm very meh on this show this season.

[bantering]

Was it ever explained why he left the first wife? I guess I was surprised when he declared his love for the ex-wife in the letter. That was more surprising to me than his desire to be with his son, although I'm also baffled as to why he couldn't maintain a relationship with the son even with a divorce from the ex-wife. (I assume the rest of the back-story will be explained later on, but he's the one character on the show who is difficult to understand. I even get why Frank and Bonnie are the way they are but Sam baffles me. There really isn't a good reason as to why he sucks so much. Is it the acting? I have no idea. People complained about Wes's acting, but I understood why he was the way he was too). Because Sam had the affair with the student, I figured he was one of those guys who couldn't really stay faithful to one person, regardless of when times get tough or not.  

 

I also think the majority of the murders have been reasonably explained as to how they could happen (whether by accident, or out of rage, or to protect Analise or someone else, or because Frank got guilt-tripped by way of his own blind loyalty). Why Layla was murdered by Frank through Sam's orders just because Sam couldn't tell Analise he sucked as a husband still confounds me. So, yeah, Sam continues to baffle me. I'm sure Analise would have forgiven him for his indiscretion -- we've seen she's a forgiving person even when she has to scrub blood off of her floor, so Sam's refusal to tell her about the student is just weird to me.  Seriously, Sam, did she really have to die just because you had sex outside of marriage? Yeah, you're dumb.

Edited January 18, 2019 by bantering

[Queena]

I love Viola Davis, the actress that plays Bonnie, and the actor that plays Frank. 

 

When Eve came with the email 10 years later, I'm happy to see her. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, bantering said:

Was it ever explained why he left the first wife? I guess I was surprised when he declared his love for the ex-wife in the letter. That was more surprising to me than his desire to be with his son, although I'm also baffled as to why he couldn't maintain a relationship with the son even with a divorce from the ex-wife. (I assume the rest of the back-story will be explained later on, but he's the one character on the show who is difficult to understand. I even get why Frank and Bonnie are the way they are but Sam baffles me. There really isn't a good reason as to why he sucks so much. Is it the acting? I have no idea. People complained about Wes's acting, but I understood why he was the way he was too). Because Sam had the affair with the student, I figured he was one of those guys who couldn't really stay faithful to one person, regardless of when times get tough or not.  

 

I also think the majority of the murders have been reasonably explained as to how they could happen (whether by accident, or out of rage, or to protect Analise or someone else, or because Frank got guilt-tripped by way of his own blind loyalty). Why Layla was murdered by Frank through Sam's orders just because Sam couldn't tell Analise he sucked as a husband still confounds me. So, yeah, Sam continues to baffle me. I'm sure Analise would have forgiven him for his indiscretion -- we've seen she's a forgiving person even when she has to scrub blood off of her floor, so Sam's refusal to tell her about the student is just weird to me.  Seriously, Sam, did she really have to die just because you had sex outside of marriage? Yeah, you're dumb.

I think it has been established that Sam left his wife to be with AK, who he met as one of his patients. From this episode, the wife, Vivien (sp?) wanted to cut off Sam from getting to know or having any involvement with their child. Now, that could just be pettiness over the breakup, or something more. It seems to me in the real world you could never prevent a father from having any access to his child, and it seems like if he wanted to push the legal issue he could.

I was wondering if Sam really wanted to reunite with Vivien, or if he just was willing to pay that price to have access to Gabriel going forward.

AK is smart enough to know that Sam cheated with her, so it would be no surprise that Sam might cheat on her. Given the backstory about AK's struggles to be a mother and the tragic death of their child, I think knowing that Sam had not just cheated on her but got another woman pregnant would have hit AK harder than it might seem on the surface.  

Sam's getting Lila pregnant had broader ramifications than just for his marriage with AK. For starters, he likely would have been ousted from his position at the university when it came out, and possibly locked out of a new job. 

[Empress1]

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Guys, for once, you didnt accidentally or on purpose kill anyone! Just enjoy that!

Ha! Imagine that being your life, that that's a thing to enjoy. I felt so bad for Connor and Oliver, just trying to be romantic on their wedding night.

6 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Dante Verica was cute, though, as young Gabriel. 

Yes, I thought it was very sweet that it was Tom Verica's real son. He's a cute kid. Here's Tom Verica and his wife.

11 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Now, that could just be pettiness over the breakup, or something more. It seems to me in the real world you could never prevent a father from having any access to his child, and it seems like if he wanted to push the legal issue he could.

I wondered if Sam's wife held the fact that Sam was involved with Annalise as a patient over his head in exchange for cutting off contact with her and Gabriel. That's a huge no-no for a psychologist that could cost him his license. Although now that I think about it, do people know about that? Eve does because Annalise left her for Sam, but do others?

[helenamonster]

Fantastic episode. One of my favorites in a long time.

Eve! Eve Eve Eve! That's all I gotta say about that!

I loved getting more backstory regarding the aftermath of Annalise losing Sam Jr, especially the inclusion of the scene of Bonnie finding Annalise after she OD'd, which has been talked about before but never shown. Interesting that Bonnie and Frank had slept together way back when--wonder if they'll ever reveal why they didn't really pursue it until like a decade later.

I also wonder what it is about Annalise wanting to adopt Christophe that provided blackmail material for the governor. Is it as simple as her pulling favors for the kid she wanted to adopt (getting him off the Middleton waitlist, adding a fifth internship spot so he could join) and then that same kid murdering her husband?

Agreed on the irony of the kiddos being completely on the outskirts of the brewing crises and sitting around trying to figure out what's going on instead of being in the middle of it all.

I give this show a lot of shit for the way it comes up with its plotlines as it goes along, but there was something very masterful about the way they slowly unfurled what I thought to be one big mystery into three separate ones: who's dead in the snow, who is Gabriel, and what's up with the adoption are pretty much independent storylines with minimal crossover.

[stonehaven]

As far as Sam  being the way he is, I cannot explain for whenever I see him, I see Mr. Pryor, Meg's dad from American Dreams. I loved that show and have never seriously bought Sam to be evil as they want to portray. He doesn't have the sinister edge that he needs to but still, glad he's on the show...

[nilyank]

Was there an explanation why Annalise and Sam were denied the chance to adopt Christophe?

As far as anyone knew, they were a married in a stable relationship for years, highly educated professional. And at that time, they have yet to commit any murders yet?

Plus, the little boy's mother was ab undocumented, poor woman of color with no other family.  I mean that was a quick phone call that shut down any chances for him.  It could been a better situation for him than just placing him in a foster home.

[Steph J]

7 hours ago, bantering said:

Was it ever explained why he left the first wife? I guess I was surprised when he declared his love for the ex-wife in the letter. That was more surprising to me than his desire to be with his son, although I'm also baffled as to why he couldn't maintain a relationship with the son even with a divorce from the ex-wife.

 

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I think it has been established that Sam left his wife to be with AK, who he met as one of his patients. From this episode, the wife, Vivien (sp?) wanted to cut off Sam from getting to know or having any involvement with their child. Now, that could just be pettiness over the breakup, or something more. It seems to me in the real world you could never prevent a father from having any access to his child, and it seems like if he wanted to push the legal issue he could.

I was wondering if Sam really wanted to reunite with Vivien, or if he just was willing to pay that price to have access to Gabriel going forward.

It could just be a matter of Sam being the kind of entitled dick who thinks he can and should have what he wants when he wants it and how he wants it. By which I mean that maybe when he decided to be with Annalise he also decided that he wanted nothing to do with his son by Vivian because he didn't want to bring "baggage" into his nice new life and then once things started to go sideways in his marriage to Annalise he decided that, actually, he loved Vivian all along and made a mistake leaving her and their son so he should just get another chance because that's what he wants now.  When he left the grass was greener with Annalise, now he's looking back and thinks that the grass was greener where he originally was.

As Chicago Redshirt says, he could have maintained a relationship with his son if he wanted to/tried to.  People don't lose their parental rights just because they cheated on their spouse. So unless there's some narrative reason for the separation that the show is going to reveal later, I'm assuming that Sam is just a selfish deadbeat.

[possibilities]

44 minutes ago, nilyank said:

Was there an explanation why Annalise and Sam were denied the chance to adopt Christophe?

As far as anyone knew, they were a married in a stable relationship for years, highly educated professional. And at that time, they have yet to commit any murders yet?

Plus, the little boy's mother was ab undocumented, poor woman of color with no other family.  I mean that was a quick phone call that shut down any chances for him.  It could been a better situation for him than just placing him in a foster home.

I imagine they might have said she needed to have more time between her miscarriage and adopting a new child. There are often waiting periods because of things like that. But also, when they called Sam, he might well have told them he was opposed, or behaved in any number of ways that would have made them decide he would not be a fit parent. And that would end it for Annalise, because she's arried to him. And if she left him, that would also take time. They aren't going to place the kid with someone in the middle of a divorce.

It could also have been because of her relationship to the case that introduced her to his newly deceased mother. They might have wanted a placement without baggage of that kind.

[colorbars]

7 hours ago, helenamonster said:

I also wonder what it is about Annalise wanting to adopt Christophe that provided blackmail material for the governor. Is it as simple as her pulling favors for the kid she wanted to adopt (getting him off the Middleton waitlist, adding a fifth internship spot so he could join) and then that same kid murdering her husband?

There might be more to it that we still don't know, but assuming this is the full story, I'm guessing it's the fact that it's proof that Annalise had a previous connection to Wes, the person that has officially been "credited" with the murder of her husband - who many people still seem to think Annalise killed, but she just got away with it. So if it was found out that Wes and Annalise had some kind of relationship prior to/outside of teacher/student, it would certainly raise questions and might even open up the investigation again, which is the last thing any of them are gonna want.

Edited January 19, 2019 by colorbars

[wanderingstar]

Quote

Was it ever explained why he left the first wife?

No, and I thought that we'd at least get that explanation last night. But the writers apparently intend to drag this out for the remainder of the season.

Quote

I even get why Frank and Bonnie are the way they are but Sam baffles me.

I think that's because he's mostly been a plot device and not a fully realized character in his own right. He needs to be an asshole all the time because Annalise needs angst. And yet...in the flashbacks, he's shown to be kind sometimes, because the plot needs him to be that way at that moment. This is just more reason why the writers should move on from this character. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, nilyank said:

Was there an explanation why Annalise and Sam were denied the chance to adopt Christophe?

As far as anyone knew, they were a married in a stable relationship for years, highly educated professional. And at that time, they have yet to commit any murders yet?

Plus, the little boy's mother was ab undocumented, poor woman of color with no other family.  I mean that was a quick phone call that shut down any chances for him.  It could been a better situation for him than just placing him in a foster home.

My interpretation was that AK attempted suicide and was saved by Bonnie. Against that backdrop, her being selected to adopt a kid was just not going to happen.

[nilyank]

10 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

My interpretation was that AK attempted suicide and was saved by Bonnie. Against that backdrop, her being selected to adopt a kid was just not going to happen.

True but that didn't happen until after she got the phone call. I thought that she tried to kill herself when she found out that she couldn't adopt him.

[jhlipton]

On 1/17/2019 at 10:49 PM, tennisgurl said:

Poor Annalise just had no luck with kids, although she clearly wants to be a mom so badly. No wonder she has ended up playing mom to the K5, despite their drama and many, MANY issues and accidental murders.

It especially explains why she was so motherly and protective of Wes, the boy who wasn't her child, but almost was.

7 hours ago, Steph J said:

People don't lose their parental rights just because they cheated on their spouse.

13 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It seems to me in the real world you could never prevent a father from having any access to his child, and it seems like if he wanted to push the legal issue he could.

Right.  People can lose all custody of a child, but there have to be strong factors, such as drugs or violence.

[darkestboy]

Oliver's comment about Gabriel made me shudder a little until he himself realised that it was the wrong thing to say. That said though, Gabriel is obviously a problem in the making as he seems to want more than getting to know about his father.

I enjoyed his scenes with Annalise though and the flashbacks, while too much of them were mostly good as well. 

Bonnie and Frank had some great scenes this week as did Connor snarking at Asher as well. 

Eve's return is so welcomed, hope she's around for the rest of the season, 8/10

[tennisgurl]

3 hours ago, darkestboy said:

Oliver's comment about Gabriel made me shudder a little until he himself realised that it was the wrong thing to say. That said though, Gabriel is obviously a problem in the making as he seems to want more than getting to know about his father.

 

Yeah, that made me laugh because I was like "well, look who has been drinking the murder kool-aid, Oliver!", but then he recognized that was a messed up thing to joke about, especially with their track record. It was a nice scene between him and Oliver where they talked about helping each other stay on the right path. We`ll see how that goes...

I cant say I expected to see more of Sam this far into the show, I wonder how much more he pops up in flashback form? I wonder if there was more to his not seeing Gabriel than what we are seeing, with all the drama with grandma telling me to scram when he tried to see Gabriel. I mean, as others have said, just because she cheated and left his wife that doesent mean he would have his parental rights automatically terminated. Or, maybe more likely, he was just an asshole who only half assedly bothered getting to see his kid. 

[helenamonster]

14 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

No, and I thought that we'd at least get that explanation last night. But the writers apparently intend to drag this out for the remainder of the season.

As has been mentioned here by others, we already knew before this episode that Sam left his wife for Annalise. They were carrying on an affair while she was his patient and he was married.

And I agree with those that Sam not seeing Gabriel was probably mostly his choice. Vivian had probably just gotten pregnant when he decided to leave her for Annalise, and since we know he knew about Gabriel she may have told him but he decided to move on completely, and then maybe she told him if that was his decision then he could stay away forever. It seems that Sam was only interested in Gabriel once he lost Sam Jr. and needed that anticipation of being a father to be fulfilled.

Sam has a track record of only wanting to be a father when it is convenient for him. See also: Stangard, Lila.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Flashback Frank was yummy, not that he's hard on the eyes now.

Thank goodness Gabriel didn't turn out to be Annalise's kid. That would've been ridiculous, IMO. I can't believe I was one of the viewers trying to bend the HTGAWM space-time continuum in order to make such a thing possible.

I'm meh on Gabriel and am more interested in what's going to happen with Nate and Bonnie's coverup of the DA's death. And a Nate/Bonnie/Frank sandwich in the boudoir  might be interesting.

[jhlipton]

On 1/19/2019 at 1:02 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

And a Nate/Bonnie/Frank sandwich in the boudoir  might be interesting.

I don't think Frank would mind, but I doubt Nate would go for it.

[NUguy514]

On 1/19/2019 at 1:02 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

And a Nate/Bonnie/Frank sandwich in the boudoir  might be interesting.

I would be 1,000,000,000% for this.

[deirdra]

The problem with these flashbacks is that "young" Annalise & Sam look 50 and "young" Bonnie & Frank look 40 with their forehead wrinkles.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

I don't think Frank would mind, but I doubt Nate would go for it.

I thought that too but maybe if he was drunk or high enough? And I'm thinking Frank would have to come in on activities already undergoing, if you catch my drift. He seems the more, uh, adventurous one.

[renatae]

On 1/18/2019 at 3:28 PM, helenamonster said:

I also wonder what it is about Annalise wanting to adopt Christophe that provided blackmail material for the governor. Is it as simple as her pulling favors for the kid she wanted to adopt (getting him off the Middleton waitlist, adding a fifth internship spot so he could join) and then that same k

Yes, this is driving me nuts! Although I'm not sure the adoptee in question is Christophe because of Annalise's earlier discussions with her sister, wherein her sister said the baby died. Christophe of course wasn't a baby. So I'm thinking these are two different children. I also didn't get back then why Annalise just suddenly dropped the whole subject sfter her sister claimed the baby was dead, and didn't even seem upset. Maybe I'm just out in left field and these things aren't at all related.

[jhlipton]

3 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I thought that too but maybe if he was drunk or high enough? And I'm thinking Frank would have to come in on activities already undergoing, if you catch my drift. He seems the more, uh, adventurous one.

I think Bonnie would have to do the invite.  I don't want to get any more explicit, but several (non-gay) options come to mind.

[helenamonster]

6 hours ago, renatae said:

Yes, this is driving me nuts! Although I'm not sure the adoptee in question is Christophe because of Annalise's earlier discussions with her sister, wherein her sister said the baby died. Christophe of course wasn't a baby. So I'm thinking these are two different children. I also didn't get back then why Annalise just suddenly dropped the whole subject sfter her sister claimed the baby was dead, and didn't even seem upset. Maybe I'm just out in left field and these things aren't at all related.

I'm confused...her sister wasn't in this episode. I'm a little hazy on exactly what she and Celestine talked about last time Annalise went home, but if they were talking about a "dead baby" it was Sam Jr.

Annalise was explicitly talking about adopting Christophe (aka young Wes) in this episode. She talked about the boy who's mother was involved in the case she was working on (the Mahoney case) killing herself and leaving him an orphan, how she and Sam needed him and he needed them. She never said he was a baby. She was absolutely talking about Christophe, who was about eleven or twelve at this time. So, yes, completely different from the dead baby, which is Sam Jr.

[Blue Plastic]

On 1/18/2019 at 11:00 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

No, and I thought that we'd at least get that explanation last night. But the writers apparently intend to drag this out for the remainder of the season.

I think that's because he's mostly been a plot device and not a fully realized character in his own right. He needs to be an asshole all the time because Annalise needs angst. And yet...in the flashbacks, he's shown to be kind sometimes, because the plot needs him to be that way at that moment. This is just more reason why the writers should move on from this character. 

It stuck out in this episode in particular what a cipher Sam's character is.  Sometimes he's nice, other times selfish, other times outright horrible.  I just don't understand what motivated him because he could be anything from kind to a murderer.  But I guess Bonnie and Frank can be that way too, so why am I so confused?

This episode was too heavy on the flashbacks and too light on action.  I'm definitely more interested in the fallout from Bonnie and Nate murdering her boyfriend than I am in what's going on with Gabriel.  Looking forward to Keating 4 finding out what Bonnie and Nate did.

We still haven't had an explanation on who was behind hiring Frank to arrange the accident that killed Annalise's baby, right?

[helenamonster]

20 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

We still haven't had an explanation on who was behind hiring Frank to arrange the accident that killed Annalise's baby, right?

It was the Mahoneys, via that woman in the hotel room that offered him the suitcase full of cash.

[renatae]

On 1/21/2019 at 2:29 PM, helenamonster said:

I'm confused...her sister wasn't in this episode. I'm a little hazy on exactly what she and Celestine talked about last time Annalise went home, but if they were talking about a "dead baby" it was Sam Jr.

Annalise was explicitly talking about adopting Christophe (aka young Wes) in this episode. She talked about the boy who's mother was involved in the case she was working on (the Mahoney case) killing herself and leaving him an orphan, how she and Sam needed him and he needed them. She never said he was a baby. She was absolutely talking about Christophe, who was about eleven or twelve at this time. So, yes, completely different from the dead baby, which is Sam Jr.

I'm confused, too, lol. There is the revelation that she was trying to adopt Christophe, but there was an earlier arc I felt might be the one she was afraid might be discovered.

In that arc Bonnie and possibly Frank were talking about a baby/child and some info they knew that would upset Annalise and debating whether to tell her. It seems Annalise had been trying to find out where this child is because the child is important to her. Eventually, either Annalise discovers Bonnie has info, or Bonnie confesses on her own. She said that Annalise's sister had knowledge and maybe custody of the child, which sends Annalise to her sister's house to confront her. This was not Annalise's dead child, because of course Annalise knew her baby was dead. Her sister says she's sorry for keeping the child's location a secret, then tells her the child she had custody of has died. Then I believe they visit the child's grave and nothing more is ever said. To my knowledge they never say who this child/baby is.

[ursula]

So Olive goes from treating Michaela like trash because of Simon ---- whose idea it was that Oliver frame --- to advocating a murder in the space of 2 weeks. But tell me again how the Simon/ICE storyline wasn't  just an excuse for the writers to trash Michaela. Between this and yet another Sam flashback* rehashing a bunch of stuff that we either already knew or don't plain care about, I'm done with this show. 

 

(Seriously, Show. Is this a contractual obligation for the actor to appear in every season? You know it's OK to kill straight white men and let them stay dead. Let Sam go. Let. him. go.)

[helenamonster]

4 hours ago, renatae said:

I'm confused, too, lol. There is the revelation that she was trying to adopt Christophe, but there was an earlier arc I felt might be the one she was afraid might be discovered.

In that arc Bonnie and possibly Frank were talking about a baby/child and some info they knew that would upset Annalise and debating whether to tell her. It seems Annalise had been trying to find out where this child is because the child is important to her. Eventually, either Annalise discovers Bonnie has info, or Bonnie confesses on her own. She said that Annalise's sister had knowledge and maybe custody of the child, which sends Annalise to her sister's house to confront her. This was not Annalise's dead child, because of course Annalise knew her baby was dead. Her sister says she's sorry for keeping the child's location a secret, then tells her the child she had custody of has died. Then I believe they visit the child's grave and nothing more is ever said. To my knowledge they never say who this child/baby is.

I feel that you may be conflating several storylines.

Any dead baby that Annalise and Celestine talked about was Sam Jr. There is an episode (in season 2? 3? before Ophelia's mind started going) where Annalise goes back to Tennessee and has clearly still not fully dealt with the loss of her baby or Sam. Ophelia takes her out into the yard and has her write a letter and bury it to help her make her peace.

This season, there was also the storyline of Bonnie's missing baby. Bonnie had originally been told that the baby was dead, but then it appears her sister smuggled him away and gave him up for adoption. I was a little confused about where this story was left hanging (something about the kid being buried alive?) but it was mostly just a red herring to get us to think that Gabriel was Bonnie's long lost son, as the show would mix conversations about Bonnie's long lost son with conversations about Gabriel, who Bonnie and Frank suspected was Sam's son and were withholding that information from Annalise until they had confirmation. Bonnie is the one who visits her sister to find out what happened to her baby.

Then there is also something (we don't know what yet) involved in Annalise's attempted adoption of Christophe/Wes that provided blackmail material for the governor. That's its own thing (though of course tied to her initial grief over losing Sam Jr.).

[renatae]

7 hours ago, helenamonster said:

I feel that you may be conflating several storylines.

Any dead baby that Annalise and Celestine talked about was Sam Jr. There is an episode (in season 2? 3? before Ophelia's mind started going) where Annalise goes back to Tennessee and has clearly still not fully dealt with the loss of her baby or Sam. Ophelia takes her out into the yard and has her write a letter and bury it to help her make her peace.

This season, there was also the storyline of Bonnie's missing baby. Bonnie had originally been told that the baby was dead, but then it appears her sister smuggled him away and gave him up for adoption. I was a little confused about where this story was left hanging (something about the kid being buried alive?) but it was mostly just a red herring to get us to think that Gabriel was Bonnie's long lost son, as the show would mix conversations about Bonnie's long lost son with conversations about Gabriel, who Bonnie and Frank suspected was Sam's son and were withholding that information from Annalise until they had confirmation. Bonnie is the one who visits her sister to find out what happened to her baby.

Then there is also something (we don't know what yet) involved in Annalise's attempted adoption of Christophe/Wes that provided blackmail material for the governor. That's its own thing (though of course tied to her initial grief over losing Sam Jr.).

Thank you! Yes, I was confusing Bonnie's child with someone connected to Annalise. I need a keeper, lol.

I'm glad you confirmed that the Bonnie's child storyline was left somewhat unresolved, though, because it did leave me scratching my head as I just wasn't sure the proffered explanation held water.

[starri]

Every time I think Viola has reached the apex of what she can do as an actress, she manages to top herself.  It's only a shame the show is off Emmy radar now, but she was magnificent in those flashback scenes with Bonnie.

[Milaxx]

On 1/27/2019 at 10:17 AM, starri said:

Every time I think Viola has reached the apex of what she can do as an actress, she manages to top herself.  It's only a shame the show is off Emmy radar now, but she was magnificent in those flashback scenes with Bonnie.

On 1/17/2019 at 11:07 PM, UNOSEZ said:

Good episode... Looking FWD to Gabriel coming clean to the Keating 5... Viola was Viola and knocked it out the park... You really see the beginning of the bond bonnie and frank have with her and how fiercely they want to protect her

I still don’t trust Gabriel. I don’t think he’s completely evil, but I think both he and Miller are/were being used by the FBI.

On 1/18/2019 at 12:44 AM, Annber03 said:

Eve! Good to see her again-and I'll be very curious to see what she does, or what she encourages Annalise to do, regarding all this stuff with Gabriel and Vivian and so on. 

Also liked the flashbacks-it's weird to see Sam so sentimental about Gabriel, knowing how shitty he is in general. But it had me wondering what would've happened had he not died and he'd gotten a chance to build a relationship with his son? I also liked seeing Bonnie being there for Annalise back in the day and helping her though such a tough time, and Annalise's grief over her loss, both of her own baby and her chance at adopting Christoph, was heartbreaking. She really just cannot catch a break when it comes to her chance at having a child of her own. 

I also like Nate offering to keep Bonnie's role in MIller's death quiet, and the attempts to try and help alleviate her guilt. Let's see how long that secret about Miller lasts once the Keating gang finds out he's dead :p. 

Some good stuff setting up for the back half of this season here. Can't wait to see how this all plays out. 

I liked seeing a Bonnie and AK because it further explains why they have the dynamics they have. They are simultaneously each other’s enabler and supporter.

On 1/18/2019 at 1:49 AM, tennisgurl said:

Eve! So happy to see Eve! I have always loved Eve/Annalise, will we get an Evalise (do we have a name for them?) end game? I hope so, they seem to really get each other, and they actually have a healthy relationship, which is pretty freaking impressive on this show.

Great start to the season! Loved the flashbacks, and Viola was amazing as ever, dealing with her grief over her son, and being unable to adopt another child to love, and the current story line was interesting as well. Its super weird that the K5 really have no clue what is going on, and are all just trying to play catch up! Guys, for once, you didnt accidentally or on purpose kill anyone! Just enjoy that! Seeing Sam is weird, I was pretty much done with him as a character, but it looks like he will become relevant again. I almost expect to see Lila, Rebecca, and the spinning cheerleader again!

Poor Annalise just had no luck with kids, although she clearly wants to be a mom so badly. No wonder she has ended up playing mom to the K5, despite their drama and many, MANY issues and accidental murders. 

Connor and Oliver a whole five seconds of honeymoon before they get called in for more secretes and lies and whatnot. Their conversation at the end was sweet, especially after Connors dad said that super weird thing to Oliver at their reception about having to curb his impulses. The fuck? 

I know that ship has probably sailed, but I could really get into Frank/Bonnie. They have great chemistry, and they have been through so much together. They also know about each others dark sides, and are cool with it.

I feel bad for Coliver. Their wedding memories will forever be tied to yet another murder. It was bad enough that Connorhad to find his mother being serviced by Asher. 

On 1/18/2019 at 9:07 AM, Lady Calypso said:

Eve! I honestly never thought she'd return, so I'm glad that she has. I didn't really think she could be the Her that Frank's been talking to because I didn't think the actress would come back. 

I'll admit that I'm not really liking this season for a few reasons, and I'm so, so, so very tired of Sam (he's dead! Move on, show!). However, I think having the flashbacks take up the majority of the episode was nice. I have wanted to see more of young Annalise, Bonnie and Frank, so getting more on them was good. I just really think that we need to know more about our present day characters (Keating Five) than dead characters like Sam and even Wes. That's where the show is losing me this season. 

Again, some great acting from the older cast this episode, especially Viola and Tom Verica, but I'm not really liking where this season is going. 

Dante Verica was cute, though, as young Gabriel. 

I know a lot of people disl8ke the flashbacks but I like them. They fill in the blanks. You see how theses people became who they are and why they are so enmeshed in each other’s lives.

On 1/18/2019 at 1:58 PM, bantering said:

Was it ever explained why he left the first wife? I guess I was surprised when he declared his love for the ex-wife in the letter. That was more surprising to me than his desire to be with his son, although I'm also baffled as to why he couldn't maintain a relationship with the son even with a divorce from the ex-wife. (I assume the rest of the back-story will be explained later on, but he's the one character on the show who is difficult to understand. I even get why Frank and Bonnie are the way they are but Sam baffles me. There really isn't a good reason as to why he sucks so much. Is it the acting? I have no idea. People complained about Wes's acting, but I understood why he was the way he was too). Because Sam had the affair with the student, I figured he was one of those guys who couldn't really stay faithful to one person, regardless of when times get tough or not.  

II think there’s more to the Sam/Vivian story. The most obvious thing is Sam having an affair with a patient could cost him his license. 

On 1/18/2019 at 4:28 PM, helenamonster said:

I loved getting more backstory regarding the aftermath of Annalise losing Sam Jr, especially the inclusion of the scene of Bonnie finding Annalise after she OD'd, which has been talked about before but never shown. Interesting that Bonnie and Frank had slept together way back when--wonder if they'll ever reveal why they didn't really pursue it until like a decade later.

I also wonder what it is about Annalise wanting to adopt Christophe that provided blackmail material for the governor. Is it as simple as her pulling favors for the kid she wanted to adopt (getting him off the Middleton waitlist, adding a fifth internship spot so he could join) and then that same kid murdering her husband?

I got the impression that Bonnie & Frank had slept together back in season 1 (3?) when Bonnie & Laurel went out playing pool and Laurel asked her if they had.

They framed Wes for Sam’s murder, but they made it seem like AK didn’t know him until he came to Middleton. If it becomes public that AK not only knew Wes before he came to Middleton, but she wanted to adopt Wes, then it could be misconstrued that she had Wes kill Sam. They could reopen everything. They could say she had Wes kill Sam then blew her house up with Wes inside to cover that up.

On 1/19/2019 at 12:02 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

My interpretation was that AK attempted suicide and was saved by Bonnie. Against that backdrop, her being selected to adopt a kid was just not going to happen.

Sam was against the the adoption. AK filed for adoption without telling Sam who was pissed when the adoption agency called asking for his social to begin the application.  

On 1/24/2019 at 8:42 PM, renatae said:

I'm glad you confirmed that the Bonnie's child storyline was left somewhat unresolved, though, because it did leave me scratching my head as I just wasn't sure the proffered explanation held water

I don’t think the writers have forgotten that. The impression I got was what really happened is a major bombshell. I wouldn’t be surprised if they dropped that as the season finale or came back to it next season. 

[Milaxx]

I think we can expect Sam flashbacks until the show ends. Sam is a part of this show just as much as the dad on Six Feet Under.  Ak’s relationship with Sam played a large part in who she is today. We have yet to see the AK that first went to therapy in the first place.  

I also like how the shows us fully rounded people. Yes Sam is mostly team bad decisions, but there was a time he loved AK. He felt sincere regret at not having a relationship with Gabriel. It doesn’t absolve him for all the bad he did, but it makes him human. 

[possibilities]

Why would finding out that Annalise had tried to adopt Wes ages ago make it seem like she was framing him now? First of all, he DID kill Sam. That wasn't a lie. But also, why would he kill Sam over the failed adoption? I don't really understand that logic.

[helenamonster]

10 hours ago, possibilities said:

Why would finding out that Annalise had tried to adopt Wes ages ago make it seem like she was framing him now? First of all, he DID kill Sam. That wasn't a lie. But also, why would he kill Sam over the failed adoption? I don't really understand that logic.

Regarding why Wes would want to kill Sam for not adopting him, it could be explained as being as simple as Wes resenting having to spend the rest of his life in foster/group homes (where they forced him to change his first and last name) instead of being adopted into a (relatively) stable family where he'd still be Christophe.

I think what Annalise fears is that the governor will spin it that she was in on Sam's murder as well. Since Annalise did want to adopt Christophe and it was Sam who put a stop to it, the governor could connect the dots of Annalise getting Wes off the waitlist, creating an extra spot in her internship program for him, and then Sam ending up dead only a few months later.

Putting Sam's death entirely on Wes helped to clean things up for the rest of the crew (dead men tell no tales, etc), but any suspicion that Annalise is even tangentially related to the murder could open the floodgates for revealing what really happened.

[Milaxx]

Exactly. It was 2 fold. 1.Wes took the blame for killing Sam & Rebecca so that cleared the K5 of any involvement with Sam’s death and Rebecca’s. Yes Bonnie killed Rebecca, but the K5 tied her up & put her in the basement. 2. Denver was trying to pin Sam’s death on AK. When they put it on Wes, part of the story was that he was just her student. Knowing that not only did they have a prior connection, but that it was a connection  so close that she tried to adopt him, means that one could argue that AR’s killed Sam for AK and AK then killed Wes and set her house on fire. 

[possibilities]

But they would have no evidence. It's just total speculation. You could make up a story about anyone and have just as much to back it up, and it wouldn't stick, especially when they have a confession from Wes, which does not implicate Annalise at all.

[helenamonster]

20 hours ago, possibilities said:

But they would have no evidence. It's just total speculation. You could make up a story about anyone and have just as much to back it up, and it wouldn't stick, especially when they have a confession from Wes, which does not implicate Annalise at all.

But it's the speculation that could lead to somebody starting to dig up real evidence. That's what Annalise is afraid of. As long as everybody believes Wes acted alone, the rest of them are in the clear.

[Milaxx]

And they are looking for something. Especially since trouble seems to swirl around AK. I just wonder who started this investigation? Was it Denver tipping off the FBI or someone higher up?  Nate still has those other files. Will we find out what’s in them? We still don’t know why Connor and Michaela were picked for K5. Were they truly the only 2 chosen for academics?

[helenamonster]

8 hours ago, Milaxx said:

We still don’t know why Connor and Michaela were picked for K5. Were they truly the only 2 chosen for academics?

Many have speculated that Michaela was picked due to her engagement to Aiden at the time, and his family was very well-connected.

No explanation has been given as to why Connor was chosen.