S05:E03 Caterpillar to Butterfly

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Jazz agrees to an interview for ABC's Nightline to discuss her upcoming surgery. Jeanette throws a farewell party for a certain part of Jazz's anatomy. Jack faces a health issue that might affect his ability to travel to NYC for Jazz's surgery. 

PrincessPurrsALot dreads the goodbye Jazz's penis party and yet wonders if they'll also acknowledge her testicles. PPAL needs a life. 

Yes, this episode is focused on preparations for Jazz's gender confirmation surgery.  These preparations include a party, because watching her pack her bags and buy the correct soap to use post-surgery does not make for the most interesting TV.  

Let's see Jazz at her jazziest as she says goodbye to her male-appearing genitals. 

[ClareWalks]

28 minutes ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Let's see Jazz at her jazziest as she says goodbye to her male-appearing genitals. 

I read this as Jenitals with a J, haha :)

[possibilities]

I'm enjoying thinking of penises as caterpillars. Maybe that will catch on.

[J. Matazz]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I'm enjoying thinking of penises as caterpillars. Maybe that will catch on.

This isn't a bad idea, I like it. Probable to spread too, given an abundance of individuals stating post surgery they felt like a butterfly.

 

One thing I'm already confused about is why the cake is a penis one, complete with a dildo. Why not a vagina cake with some cherry pie filling at the top? Like, I personally wanted that before my surgery since it'd be celebrating the good to come, not the end of the bad.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

I'm enjoying thinking of penises as caterpillars. Maybe that will catch on.

My concern would be the awkward moments at which the penis could become a butterfly if penises were caterpillars, or opening someone's pants and finding a cocoon.  Um, honey, there seems to be something going on in your pants . . . . 

3 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

I read this as Jenitals with a J, haha :)

We are lucky that Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar are done having children.  This might be the name of the next one.  They are committed to "J" names.   :-) 

[ClareWalks]

1 hour ago, J. Matazz said:

 

One thing I'm already confused about is why the cake is a penis one, complete with a dildo. Why not a vagina cake with some cherry pie filling at the top? Like, I personally wanted that before my surgery since it'd be celebrating the good to come, not the end of the bad.

Just pictured Jeanette at the pornographic bakery saying "I need a penis cake! With balls too! No, it's not for me, it's for my underage teenage daughter. No, that sounded bad..."

[xls]

6 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

Just pictured Jeanette at the pornographic bakery saying "I need a penis cake! With balls too! No, it's not for me, it's for my underage teenage daughter. No, that sounded bad..."

Don't know how I feel about this. I love her grandparents though! Grandma is so matter-of-fact cool.

[princelina]

Jeanette is gross.  However I am LOLing at Greg’s vision of himself as one who likes to keep personal things private, and one who would find it difficult to be a “yes man” 😂😂😂😂😂

[sATL]

I've heard that some athletes get " media training" (usually in college) on how to give an interview, like how to field tough questions and appear , while still being themselves, on camera. And esp, now how to portray themselves on SM. It also helps with anxiety about interviews and being comfortable on camera/microphone. Yes - some are better at the skill than other.  Is this type of training available to Jazz ? When Jazz turns 18/21 - parents are not always going to be there to field/shield questions.  Yeah, it may be cute to constantly talk about penis/vaginas like the the common cold, but as Jazz gets older it may not be as cute, during an interview.

Speaking of Jazz getting older - what point schoolwise - a JR or SR in high school, right ? Any mention of what  to do afterwards? with all of the medical knowledge acquired, it would be nice to put that into practice to help others..

I know its wrong to put a price on health, self-confidence/improvement, and piece of mind but...I've been dying to know... how much does the surgery cost? Is ins paying for any of it ? Any mention on how the cost is going to be financed ?

Edited January 16, 2019 by sATL

[janey99]

Jeannette is way behind the trend - she should have gotten this cake!

https://www.goldbelly.com/nadia-cakes/famous-vageode-cake

[alegtostandon]

I thought the idea of a penis pinata was pretty funny.

I am not a regular viewer of this show.  I've actually not really watched it since it first started.  Is Mother Jazz suppose to be someone like Kris Jenner, The 'momager'?  If so, she should have requested a list of questions from ABC or submit a list of acceptable questions. 

[Twopper]

18 hours ago, J. Matazz said:

One thing I'm already confused about is why the cake is a penis one, complete with a dildo. Why not a vagina cake with some cherry pie filling at the top? Like, I personally wanted that before my surgery since it'd be celebrating the good to come, not the end of the bad.

Probably because the vagina cake will appear at a "welcome home " party after the surgery.

[Visaman666]

7 hours ago, sATL said:

I've heard that some athletes get " media training" (usually in college) on how to give an interview, like how to field tough questions and appear , while still being themselves, on camera. And esp, now how to portray themselves on SM. It also helps with anxiety about interviews and being comfortable on camera/microphone. Yes - some are better at the skill than other.  Is this type of training available to Jazz ? When Jazz turns 18/21 - parents are not always going to be there to field/shield questions.  Yeah, it may be cute to constantly talk about penis/vaginas like the the common cold, but as Jazz gets older it may not be as cute, during an interview.

Speaking of Jazz getting older - what point schoolwise - a JR or SR in high school, right ? Any mention of what  to do afterwards? with all of the medical knowledge acquired, it would be nice to put that into practice to help others..

I know its wrong to put a price on health, self-confidence/improvement, and piece of mind but...I've been dying to know... how much does the surgery cost? Is ins paying for any of it ? Any mention on how the cost is going to be financed ?

Jazz is being homeschooled online. Final year, Jazz wanted the surgery before entering college. Not much has been said on the show about college. If Jazz couldn't handle High School, I doubt that Jazz will go to college. 

The surgery is considered experimental, with several doctors present. At least this first round of surgery, there will be years of surgery to go yet, so, who knows how much it will cost. The doctors don't even know what they will be doing it seems.

[Cotypubby]

Everyone keeps saying Jazz is the first to get surgery of this type, but wasn't her friend Skyler (I think that's the right friend?) also on puberty blockers before getting the surgery? Or am I completely mistaken about that? She looks like she never went through male puberty either.

[Kid]

14 hours ago, princelina said:

Jeanette is gross.  However I am LOLing at Greg’s vision of himself as one who likes to keep personal things private, and one who would find it difficult to be a “yes man” 😂😂😂😂😂

That was rich since he does not appear to get a say in anything!😂😂

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

Everyone keeps saying Jazz is the first to get surgery of this type, but wasn't her friend Skyler (I think that's the right friend?) also on puberty blockers before getting the surgery? Or am I completely mistaken about that? She looks like she never went through male puberty either.

I think the point is that Jazz' genitals were particularly undeveloped and small, even for someone who used puberty blockers.  I don't know what Skyler's story was, but, apparently, the specific procedures Jazz had done were because she had less than the usual amount of genital tissue available to allow construction of female genitalia.  However, from what I've seen of this surgery, each case is very unique and the surgeons frequently need to adapt their procedures and modify the details in order to provide the best possible result for each individual.  It really varies and is unique from person to person.

[Twopper]

3 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

Everyone keeps saying Jazz is the first to get surgery of this type, but wasn't her friend Skyler (I think that's the right friend?) also on puberty blockers before getting the surgery? Or am I completely mistaken about that? She looks like she never went through male puberty either.

She may have gone on the blockers a little later and grew enough material to work with.  I could be wrong, but I thought Marcy Bowers was located out west (Colorado or California?) so I don't understand why the surgery is being done in NYC.  There is a lot I don't understand about this especially since the doctors sound like they aren't sure about how they are going to do it;  there were discussions earlier about using a part of the colon so I don't know if Jazz balked at that so they decided to use peritoneum (sp?) instead.  The colon vagina seemed rather gross.

[SongbirdHollow]

Wasn't there an option of testosterone cream that Jazz refused? Maybe Skyler did that and thus had more to work with.

[Sew Sumi]

That rings a bell. 

[gingerella]

11 hours ago, Twopper said:

She may have gone on the blockers a little later and grew enough material to work with.  I could be wrong, but I thought Marcy Bowers was located out west (Colorado or California?) so I don't understand why the surgery is being done in NYC.  There is a lot I don't understand about this especially since the doctors sound like they aren't sure about how they are going to do it;  there were discussions earlier about using a part of the colon so I don't know if Jazz balked at that so they decided to use peritoneum (sp?) instead.  The colon vagina seemed rather gross.

My guesss, Skylar probably heeded the doctors advice instead of digging her heels in and refusing to do what would give her a more optimum amount to work with during surgery. Skylar seems a lot more normal and reasonable than Jazz...

[Eagle Woman]

If Jazz is female in her brain, why doesnt she spend hours plucking, shaving or getting electroysis for that awful black outline around her mouth. Her mouth is already unattractive and that only emphasizes that . It must be fine hair because sometimes its there and sometimes gone, so some shaving is happening.

[kicotan]

27 minutes ago, Eagle Woman said:

If Jazz is female in her brain, why doesnt she spend hours plucking, shaving or getting electroysis for that awful black outline around her mouth.

I’m just guessing here but I think it is because having a female brain doesn’t necessarily mean one is automatically driven to pluck, shave, get electrolysis, etc.

Some chicks, like Madonna or Paris Jackson, for example, don’t even shave their pits.

[Eagle Woman]

Just now, kicotan said:

I’m just guessing here but I think it is because having a female brain doesn’t necessarily mean one is automatically driven to pluck, shave, get electrolysis, etc.

Some chicks, like Madonna or Paris Jackson, for example, don’t even shave their pits.

Its one thing to not shave your pits but your FACE!!! I'm one of 6 girls, my auntie had 8 girls (then finally a boy) and I have 3 daughters and 4step daughters. Its 100 per cent consenses that facial hair is not attractive on a woman. Of course being varying degrees of Native Amercan ancestry, we dont really have to even shave our legs much and maybe we are just used to thinking thats how attractive people look, LOL.  

[kicotan]

2 minutes ago, Eagle Woman said:

maybe we are just used to thinking thats how attractive people look, LOL.  

Indeed! Lol!

I've never shaved my thighs or plucked my eyebrows. I also gave up applying black or brown mascara to my blonde eyelashes and concealer/foundation on my freckled face at least 20 years ago.  I hung out with a lot of hippies when I was younger that didn’t shave or pluck anything, ever.  Some of the “beauty” standards that society comes up with really don’t apply to everyone’s tastes across the board.

[Eagle Woman]

2 minutes ago, kicotan said:

Indeed! Lol!

I've never shaved my thighs or plucked my eyebrows. I also gave up applying black or brown mascara to my blonde eyelashes and concealer/foundation on my freckled face at least 20 years ago.  I hung out with a lot of hippies when I was younger that didn’t shave or pluck anything, ever.  Some of the “beauty” standards that society comes up with really don’t apply to everyone’s tastes across the board.

Amer-Indian men dont put alot of weight on looks. They like it if you have a job, are a good mother, a good cook and not complicated. I asked my husband about this topic and he said, " After 40 years, when i cant sleep and we are lying in the dark, I cant see if you're beautiful or not,but I know how good your laughter sounds, how warm your touch is, how you never criticize  anyone and can track a moose better than anyone I know. Those things matter. Beauty is like the sunset ...even as you are in awe of it, it is fading: so its the memory of it that lasts longer than the actual beauty and makes living in the reality bearable"
 

[Twopper]

On 1/16/2019 at 2:13 AM, sATL said:

I've heard that some athletes get " media training" (usually in college) on how to give an interview, like how to field tough questions and appear , while still being themselves, on camera. And esp, now how to portray themselves on SM. It also helps with anxiety about interviews and being comfortable on camera/microphone. Yes - some are better at the skill than other.  Is this type of training available to Jazz ? When Jazz turns 18/21 - parents are not always going to be there to field/shield questions.  Yeah, it may be cute to constantly talk about penis/vaginas like the the common cold, but as Jazz gets older it may not be as cute, during an interview.

So I noticed that they showed a little of the interview; I didn't realize it had already occurred and been aired so I found it on youtube.  I thought it would be longer; it was only about 10 minutes, and I thought it was rather softball, although I got the impression her parents would disagree with me.   She could benefit from media training.   I did notice the awkward way she sat during the interview.  She is short so maybe her legs didn't reach the floor, but in that case wearing heels would help; she sat there with her feet on the rungs of the chair and had she been wearing pants it would definitely look like man-spreading, but maybe I am being overly critical.  Also I was distracted by the dress itself.  I laughed when the interviewer commented that Jazz had agreed to x number of interviews over the years because she only agreed because her mom was arranging them with ABC.  Someone said (I can't find it now) that her mom is a stage mom.  It seems the best description of her mom yet.   Watching this  made me think she could benefit from something like charm school (no, not the tv show from about 8 years ago) where she would learn to walk and sit more like a woman.  

I don't know what to think about the twins anymore.  I used to think they were there as filler, just to give the show a more complete family feel, but this season it seems like they want their own story line (i.e.  twin brothers no longer share everything or some such rot);  most of the twins I know went to separate colleges.  They both seem like jerks now.  So maybe the arc is brothers who are jerks help Jazz during recovery and re-bond with each other so they cease being jerks.  I really don't know.  

I need a life.  Carry on. 

[possibilities]

I find the stuff about Sander being jealous when Griffin spends time with other people to be way more embarrassing than all the vagina talk on this show. Jazz's story is educational for people. The twins I feel are just going to be so embarrassed by their acting out on TV like this, for no greater purpose. This airing of the twins' separation struggles is actually what makes me question the parenting on this show.

[Granny58]

1 hour ago, Eagle Woman said:

Amer-Indian men dont put alot of weight on looks. They like it if you have a job, are a good mother, a good cook and not complicated. I asked my husband about this topic and he said, " After 40 years, when i cant sleep and we are lying in the dark, I cant see if you're beautiful or not,but I know how good your laughter sounds, how warm your touch is, how you never criticize  anyone and can track a moose better than anyone I know. Those things matter. Beauty is like the sunset ...even as you are in awe of it, it is fading: so its the memory of it that lasts longer than the actual beauty and makes living in the reality bearable"
 

holy cow...he actually said that!!!  Is that normal for him or did you burst into tears at the beauty of it?  That's some man you got.

[Kid]

23 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

holy cow...he actually said that!!!  Is that normal for him or did you burst into tears at the beauty of it?  That's some man you got.

I don’t know, seems to me this man values what is really important.

I noticed in this episode how much the twins look like their father, especially Sander (the one without the girlfriend).  He is a dead ringer for dad. Also, Griffin’s girlfriend looks a lot like his sisters!!  Pretty girl.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Kid

[Eagle Woman]

Granny and kid; He has worked with disadvantaged youngsters alot and now works with rebuilding families of abuse and alcohol etc. He is also their Pipecarrier(traditional spiritual helper). I remember the first time, years ago,nI knew he was the one for me: we were traveling in his old truck to viset an elder in the hospital in Marquette. On a busy four lane hwy approaching the city at dusk, he suddenly pulled over and ran back where someone had just hit a deer and it was in the ditch. Then he dodged thru all the traffic and picked something up from the grassy median. Here was this big, tall guy cradling a newborn but deceased fawn in his good leather jacket. The doe must have been birthing when hit....we dragged mama deer into the bush and under some evergreens, covering her from predetors, and he tucked the dead fawn  under her neck, put tobacco in their mouths so they wouldnt go to the Creator empty handed...and sung the traveling song. Back at the truck, he hands me the jacket, and off we went. Yeah, he is a great guy.

[princelina]

2 hours ago, Twopper said:

So I noticed that they showed a little of the interview; I didn't realize it had already occurred and been aired so I found it on youtube.  I thought it would be longer; it was only about 10 minutes, and I thought it was rather softball, although I got the impression her parents would disagree with me.   She could benefit from media training.   I did notice the awkward way she sat during the interview.  She is short so maybe her legs didn't reach the floor, but in that case wearing heels would help; she sat there with her feet on the rungs of the chair and had she been wearing pants it would definitely look like man-spreading, but maybe I am being overly critical.  Also I was distracted by the dress itself.  I laughed when the interviewer commented that Jazz had agreed to x number of interviews over the years because she only agreed because her mom was arranging them with ABC.  Someone said (I can't find it now) that her mom is a stage mom.  It seems the best description of her mom yet.   Watching this  made me think she could benefit from something like charm school (no, not the tv show from about 8 years ago) where she would learn to walk and sit more like a woman.  

I don't know what to think about the twins anymore.  I used to think they were there as filler, just to give the show a more complete family feel, but this season it seems like they want their own story line (i.e.  twin brothers no longer share everything or some such rot);  most of the twins I know went to separate colleges.  They both seem like jerks now.  So maybe the arc is brothers who are jerks help Jazz during recovery and re-bond with each other so they cease being jerks.  I really don't know.  

I need a life.  Carry on. 

Hahaha!  I'm sure MoNique and Sharon Osbourne could teach her so much about being a lady :D. 

I wonder if the twins are being given a storyline because 3 week of filming is taken up by Jazz recuperating and that's kind of boring?

[readheaded]

1 hour ago, princelina said:

Hahaha!  I'm sure MoNique and Sharon Osbourne could teach her so much about being a lady :D. 

I wonder if the twins are being given a storyline because 3 week of filming is taken up by Jazz recuperating and that's kind of boring?

I was thinking that maybe she'll go to the same college they do and if the show continues, they''ll have a bigger role?  Didn't Ari go to the same college as the twins?  If their family is like ours, my husband and I saved for each of our 3 sons to go to the state university and if they want to go elsewhere, they have to figure out how to make up the difference. 

[Sew Sumi]

Yes, so far they've all attended the University of Florida. I guess we'll see whether or not Jazz follows suit.

[readheaded]

7 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Yes, so far they've all attended the University of Florida. I guess we'll see whether or not Jazz follows suit.

Jeanette and Greg may have done the college prepay thing for each of the kids.

[Granny58]

whoever is doing Jeanette's eye shadow should be fired.  

[Concerned]

On 1/15/2019 at 11:01 PM, princelina said:

Jeanette is gross.  However I am LOLing at Greg’s vision of himself as one who likes to keep personal things private, and one who would find it difficult to be a “yes man” 😂😂😂😂😂

He put his whole family on television worldwide and makes a ton of money doing it, so keeping things private is either naive or a joke. He sold the world stories about Jazz sexuality, genitalia and the emotional and sexual dynamics of every family member. Keep things private, I don’t think so.

[jcbrown]

This episode was the first one where I noticed that Jazz's immaturity is modelled by Jeanette. Holy cow, grow up, woman! I see where Jazz gets some of her ideas about how to be a modern woman and that is a bit scary.

[Fostersmom]

2 hours ago, jcbrown said:

This episode was the first one where I noticed that Jazz's immaturity is modelled by Jeanette. Holy cow, grow up, woman! I see where Jazz gets some of her ideas about how to be a modern woman and that is a bit scary.

I was just thinking Jazz was barley even in this episode. It was more about Jeanette, her fears, her parents, her fears about her parents, and a party she wanted to throw for Jazz. Jeanette id turning into Kris Jenner and that's not a good thing. 

[Bunnyto4]

EagleWoman-Never in my life would I have thought this, but would you and your husband marry me? He sounds dreamy! We could be on Seeking Sister Wife. LOL! Seriously though, you're a very lucky couple.

[stacyasp]

On 1/17/2019 at 11:46 AM, kicotan said:

Indeed! Lol!

I've never shaved my thighs or plucked my eyebrows. I also gave up applying black or brown mascara to my blonde eyelashes and concealer/foundation on my freckled face at least 20 years ago.  I hung out with a lot of hippies when I was younger that didn’t shave or pluck anything, ever.  Some of the “beauty” standards that society comes up with really don’t apply to everyone’s tastes across the board.

I think you might feel a little different if you had dark thick hair

[Granny58]

that paranoid walk from the hotel to the doctor's office!!!  Hilarious. 

[retiredviewer]

On 1/17/2019 at 1:58 PM, Eagle Woman said:

If Jazz is female in her brain, why doesnt she spend hours plucking, shaving or getting electroysis for that awful black outline around her mouth. Her mouth is already unattractive and that only emphasizes that . It must be fine hair because sometimes its there and sometimes gone, so some shaving is happening.

Her sister Ari has the same thing thing. I'vE seen it on many gIRls who aren't ready to remove hair.

On 1/17/2019 at 7:15 PM, readheaded said:

Jeanette and Greg may have done the college prepay thing for each of the kids.

they showed how the twins picked their college in an early season.

Is it me or are the twins looking less identical?  I'm tired of the Jeanette Show. She has Kate Gosselin syndrome, the need to be on TV. Jazz should never have been on last year. She should have been able to deal with her depression in private.

[Polliwollidoodle]

On 1/18/2019 at 4:36 PM, Granny58 said:

whoever is doing Jeanette's eye shadow should be fired.  

Amen. Because I am shallow like that, this comment really resonated. I was going to say, whoever suggested those glasses she wears, and well, whoever suggests her attire, should be fired.

[gingerella]

2 hours ago, mayvenne said:

Amen. Because I am shallow like that, this comment really resonated. I was going to say, whoever suggested those glasses she wears, and well, whoever suggests her attire, should be fired.

Good god, the make up, the 1980 eyewear, the clothing. It's like she's stuck in 1980 and cant get out. Those glasses with the fucking doohickies on the side? Like rhinestone butterflies or some such shit? Who puts those on and says "yeah, these look great!" Nobody, that's who.

[kicotan]

3 hours ago, gingerella said:

Good god, the make up, the 1980 eyewear, the clothing. It's like she's stuck in 1980 and cant get out. Those glasses with the fucking doohickies on the side? Like rhinestone butterflies or some such shit? Who puts those on and says "yeah, these look great!" Nobody, that's who.

In Jeanette’s defense, she’s got Jacky as a role model.  At Jacky’s age she definitely shouldn’t be wearing any off-the-shoulder numbers, drawing attention to her eyes with eye make-up and that wig is like Cher’s Wig and Dolly Parton’s Wig had a baby.

Yes, I admit, I’m shallow as well.

Edited February 2, 2019 by kicotan
Spelling errors

[gingerella]

12 minutes ago, kicotan said:

Yes, I admit, I’m shallow as well.

You're in good company here then!

[Twopper]

17 hours ago, kicotan said:

In Jeanette’s defense, she’s got Jacky as a role model.  At Jacky’s age she definitely shouldn’t be wearing any off-the-shoulder numbers, drawing attention to her eyes with eye make-up and that wig is like Cher’s Wig and Dolly Parton’s Wig had a baby.

Yes, I admit, I’m shallow as well.

Another  shallow person here.  That wig is too big for her head.  Ari seems well put together the little I have seen of her.  I wish she would give Jazz walking  and sitting lessons.  

Edited February 2, 2019 by Twopper
to edit

[Nowhere]

Penis party is weird and inappropriate. This is a very serious surgery. They could have had a party for Jazz without all this immaturity.