The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[benteen]

Marvel solved their villain problem last year.  Ego, Vulture, Hela, Killmonger and Thanos.  Look at the quality of the actors and actress playing them...Kurt Russell, Michael Keaton, Cate Blanchett, Michael B. Jordan and Josh Brolin.  Along with Loki, I'd say Vulture, Killmonger and Thanos are the best of the MCU villains.  If I see articles complaining about Marvel's "villain problem" now, I write it off as someone who hasn't watched the Marvel movies since 2016.

[Morrigan2575]

32 minutes ago, Smad said:

Drax the Destroyer (Power Gem)

Gamora (Time Gem) and after Gamora quits Maxam

Moondragon (Mind Gem)

Pip the Troll (Space Gem)

Thanos (Reality Gem)

Adam Warlock (Soul Gem)

It's not going to happen this way. I expect the Time Stone to stay with Strange. Since they will want to disperse the stones among the galaxy, my guess would be 1 stone with the Guardians, 1 with Thor and 1 with Captain Marvel (should she leave Earth again). Once the original GOTG team is done after their 3rd movie, I would suspect the stone to go to Adam Warlock. And obviously there is no way Thanos will be part of the Infinity Watch. Unless of course they find a way to destroy the stones then this is a moot point.

So basically GoTG = Infinity Watch, kind of funny.

I like your idea of sending the stones off with GoTG, Thor and Strange. Maybe the others get lost in the vastness of space? 

I didn't read Infinity War or Gauntlet but, I did read Infinity Crusade. That could make for a good follow up, maybe Avengers 7, give MCU time to bring the X-Men back in (assuming it happens) since they played a part in stopping The Goddess.

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, benteen said:

Marvel solved their villain problem last year.  Ego, Vulture, Hela, Killmonger and Thanos.  Look at the quality of the actors and actress playing them...Kurt Russell, Michael Keaton, Cate Blanchett, Michael B. Jordan and Josh Brolin.  Along with Loki, I'd say Vulture, Killmonger and Thanos are the best of the MCU villains.  If I see articles complaining about Marvel's "villain problem" now, I write it off as someone who hasn't watched the Marvel movies since 2016.

I have to agree on that, I think Marvel has made great strides in solving their Villain problems. Granted, I'd add Pierce to that list, loved him, loved the movie. 

[benteen]

29 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I have to agree on that, I think Marvel has made great strides in solving their Villain problems. Granted, I'd add Pierce to that list, loved him, loved the movie. 

Pierce is a strong one too, I agree.  Once again, you have a big name in Robert Redford as the villain.  Marvel continues to impress with the names they are bringing in for these movies.

Edited May 23, 2018 by benteen

[Wynterwolf]

Quote from Dee in the Infinity War thread:

Quote

Steve has only exhibited canon interest in women, Sam's sexuality is still up in the air.

Steve had indeed shown interest in women, but that only shows he has interest in women, not that he only has interest in women.  And as you say, Sam's sexuality hasn't been shown much, but he did flirt pretty hard with Natasha, and he did ask Steve to make him look good in front of the girl at the VA, so I think it's a fair assumption to say he also has interest in women as well, but we don't know anything more than that based on canon.  

[Smad]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

So basically GoTG = Infinity Watch, kind of funny.

I like your idea of sending the stones off with GoTG, Thor and Strange. Maybe the others get lost in the vastness of space? 

I didn't read Infinity War or Gauntlet but, I did read Infinity Crusade. That could make for a good follow up, maybe Avengers 7, give MCU time to bring the X-Men back in (assuming it happens) since they played a part in stopping The Goddess.

Not really the Guardians. Gamora and Warlock were not part of that team. They did their own thing together with Pip. I was thinking the only stone we know can be destroyed is the Mind Gem. However 5 stones together might be enough to go back in time and prevent that from happening. So really, they would have be divided to different parts of the galaxy. And better not get lost again lol, that's how part of this mess started.

[Dee]

When did saying hello become an indication of one's sexuality?

And there's no women shown at the VA, other than the members of Sam's peer counseling group, so that isn't a good indicator of his sexual preference either imo.

If Steve's canon sexuality is questionable, than so is everyone else's.

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I didn't read Infinity War or Gauntlet but, I did read Infinity Crusade. That could make for a good follow up, maybe Avengers 7, give MCU time to bring the X-Men back in (assuming it happens) since they played a part in stopping The Goddess.

That one was interesting to me in showing which heroes had a more religious or spiritual bent. Like Storm following her made sense because from her early days on X-Men would refer to there being a "goddess" instead of a "god".

[Wynterwolf]

1 minute ago, Dee said:

If Steve's canon sexuality is questionable, than so is everyone else's.

Exactly.  

[Dee]

5 hours ago, benteen said:

Marvel solved their villain problem last year.  Ego, Vulture, Hela, Killmonger and Thanos.  Look at the quality of the actors and actress playing them...Kurt Russell, Michael Keaton, Cate Blanchett, Michael B. Jordan and Josh Brolin.  Along with Loki, I'd say Vulture, Killmonger and Thanos are the best of the MCU villains.  If I see articles complaining about Marvel's "villain problem" now, I write it off as someone who hasn't watched the Marvel movies since 2016.

What I meant by their villain problem is that most of their recent villains have been well fleshed out humans/humanoid characters, and even they were still dogged by critics for "wanting to take over the world/start an apocalypse/etc."

If the MCU goes bigger and/or non-human with their future villains, will they be able to make them as emotionally compelling as the most recent group, ie, Ego/Hela/Vulture/Killmonger/Thanos?

4 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

Exactly.  

And yet Steve's sexuality is only rendered questionable when segments of fandom conflate fanon with canon imo.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Dee

[Wynterwolf]

7 minutes ago, Dee said:

And yet Steve's sexuality is only rendered questionable when segments of fandom conflate fanon with canon imo.

I'm genuinely curious what in canon you see as supporting Steve as strictly heterosexual?

[Dee]

I'm genuinely curious how you attribute Sam greeting Natasha as flirting, but not to his immediate previous interaction with Steve.

[Wynterwolf]

1 minute ago, Dee said:

I'm genuinely curious how you attribute Sam greeting Natasha as flirting, but not to his immediate previous interaction with Steve.

His leaning down to get a look at her and his "how you doin'" with the grin and the eye-fucking was pretty heavily coded as flirting, but I never said he wasn't also flirting with Steve, because I think he absolutely could have been.  Especially in the beginning, I think Sam had a huge crush on Steve.  

[Dee]

What I said was canon only has Steve exhibiting romantic interest in women. 

Howver, if everything is then 'open to interpretation,' to further close the fandom/canon chasm and make Steve/Bucky a reality, then the same applies to every other Steve ship, particularly Steve/Sam & Steve/Nat.

[Wynterwolf]

2 minutes ago, Dee said:

Howver, if everything is then 'open to interpretation,' to further close the fandom/canon chasm and make Steve/Bucky a reality, then the same applies to every other Steve ship, particularly Steve/Sam & Steve/Nat.

Sure, but this is where you get into individual preference, not canon viability.  All these "ships" do have canon viability, but some are obviously more popular than others, and some have more on screen scenes that can be interpreted as support.  From what you've said, I think you see more on screen support for Steve and Sam than you do for Steve and Bucky?  I think that's totally fair.  I see the opposite.  I think canon as it currently exists basically lets us both be "right".  

[Dee]

On 5/23/2018 at 12:03 PM, Wynterwolf said:

 From what you've said, I think you see more on screen support for Steve and Sam than you do for Steve and Bucky?

Not what I said.

I've said that there is strong narrative support for all three ships, Sam/Steve, Bucky/Steve, Nat/Steve; and that, in each of the previously mentioned non-canon ships, cases can be made for them, using canon support.

It's never been an either/or issue for me. The only canon/fanon ship of Steve's I dislike, for a myriad of reasons, is Steve/Tony.

Also, it would be extremely remiss to acknowledge the popularity of some ships without also interrogating the very real reasons why some ships are prioritized when other, just as viable ships, aren't.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Dee

[Wynterwolf]

13 minutes ago, Dee said:

Also, it would be extremely remiss to acknowledge the popularity of some ships without also interrogating the very real reasons why some ships are prioritized when other, just as viable ships, aren't.

If you're talking about that fact that Sam's character is black, I think you're absolutely right.  And I think that also impacts how much screen time his character is given, which impacts everything else about his character arc within the MCU.  So, that does indirectly have an impact on my personal preferences here, because that does have an impact on what stories choices they've made, and what they show us.  

But at the same time, what I am embracing and enjoying is the story that they are telling us, and the portrayals by the actors involved.  

Edited May 23, 2018 by Wynterwolf

[Dee]

6 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

If you're talking about that fact that Sam's character is black, I think you're absolutely right. 

Not just race, which is a HUGE factor, in both fandom and canon, but also the flagrant misogyny in the way Natasha is treated, and mistreated by the MCU (the less said about AOU the better), as well as the idea of what constitutes a 'hero/superhero.'

For a film universe that has largely ignored innate superpowers thus far, that seems to be the defining trait of the MCU, both on screen and in fandom.

Phase 3 of the MCU has been thoroughly feted by critics for its broadening scope, in terms of inclusiveness and diversity, on all levels, but it wasn't that long ago DC had them, shamefully, beat in that regard.

[Wynterwolf]

Yep, agree on all counts.  

[Cobalt Stargazer]

4 hours ago, benteen said:

Marvel solved their villain problem last year.  Ego, Vulture, Hela, Killmonger and Thanos.  Look at the quality of the actors and actress playing them...Kurt Russell, Michael Keaton, Cate Blanchett, Michael B. Jordan and Josh Brolin.  Along with Loki, I'd say Vulture, Killmonger and Thanos are the best of the MCU villains.  If I see articles complaining about Marvel's "villain problem" now, I write it off as someone who hasn't watched the Marvel movies since 2016.

I don't really count Loki as a villain,, and not just because I don't like him. Loki's real argument was always with Thor, and if his attempts to take Odin's bad parenting out on his brother got other people hurt, that was a side effect, not the original intention. Thor's attempts to make excuses for Loki ("He is my brother." "He killed eighty people in two days." He's adopted.") lessen any actual potential as a bad guy for me, because he's the only one who gets the benefit of it.

 

2 hours ago, Dee said:

When did saying hello become an indication of one's sexuality?

As @Wynterwolf already pointed out, it wasn't just hello. The last time I heard someone saying 'How're you doin'?' like that, it was Joey Tribbiani, and while Joey's not the brightest bulb ever, it's obviously meant to be taken as flirting. Why would it be less so in Sam's case?

 

1 hour ago, Dee said:

also the flagrant misogyny in the way Natasha is treated, and mistreated by the MCU (the less said about AOU the better), as well as the idea of what constitutes a 'hero/superhero.'

Here's what kills me about the AoU argument re Natasha. It's predicated on the idea that if she expresses regret or remorse about her past, she's no longer a strong female character. Because strong women don't have 'weaknesses' like emotions or feelings, I guess, although it does occur to me that if fewer people hated the Bruce/Natasha pairing it wouldn't be such an issue. Everything Whedon does is automatically suspect, and yet Nat has a similar conversation with Steve in Winter Soldier that no one ever complains about. Fine for her to tell Steve that she's still the assassin she was intended to be, that she just switched out Shield for Hydra, but somehow with Bruce it's a problem. Nice consistency. Hell, people ship Natasha with Wanda, and as much  as Wanda's my darlin' no matter what, A) I can't recall if she and Nat have ever had a one on one conversation, and B) Wanda's the one who pried open Natasha's mind to get at the memory of the worst thing that ever happened to her.

As for Steve, I don't care for the relationship with Bucky for the same reason I don't care for the relationship with Tony. Too co-dependent, too much baggage, and Barnes can't make a move without someone deciding to wreck his day. I get that many people want them to kiss or raise goats together or whatever else, but I don't think such an unhealthy relationship would be so well-liked if it was heterosexual.

[Dee]

Quote

As @Wynterwolf already pointed out, it wasn't just hello. The last time I heard someone saying 'How're you doin'?' like that, it was Joey Tribbiani, and while Joey's not the brightest bulb ever, it's obviously meant to be taken as flirting. Why would it be less so in Sam's case?

Because Sam's greeting is usually held as indisputable proof of Sam's 'heterosexuality,' while his similar interactions with Steve that immediately proceeded Nat's arrival, are virtually ignored by the majority of fandom.

Quote

Here's what kills me about the AoU argument re Natasha. It's predicated on the idea that if she expresses regret or remorse about her past, she's no longer a strong female character. Because strong women don't have 'weaknesses' like emotions or feelings, I guess, although it does occur to me that if fewer people hated the Bruce/Natasha pairing it wouldn't be such an issue. Everything Whedon does is automatically suspect, and yet Nat has a similar conversation with Steve in Winter Soldier that no one ever complains about. Fine for her to tell Steve that she's still the assassin she was intended to be, that she just switched out Shield for Hydra, but somehow with Bruce it's a problem. Nice consistency. Hell, people ship Natasha with Wanda, and as much  as Wanda's my darlin' no matter what, A) I can't recall if she and Nat have ever had a one on one conversation, and B) Wanda's the one who pried open Natasha's mind to get at the memory of the worst thing that ever happened to her.

The biggest problem with the way Natasha is handled in Winter Soldier vs. AOU is that her entire being in AOU feels compromised due to the elimination of Clint/Natasha and the entire context surrounding her relationship with Bruce.

A weary Natasha who grows closer with Bruce, initially as friends, over commiserating about their life choices? I have no problem with. Natasha as a windswept rom-com heroine paired with bumbling, yet intermittently dashing nerd Bruce, is textbook Joss. They're virtually a replay of Wes & Fred, replete with the requisite sad clown hero wallowing in his man-pain and the reduction of a multi-faceted female character to a generic love interest imo.

Plus their whole connection, such as it was, was rushed. They had a small yet interesting arc in the Avengers, that is essentially dropped, then suddenly they're acting like Bogey and Bacall in AOU.

It also didn't help that Natasha, by virtue of being the only female Avenger, at the point had the burden of being the only representation in terms of gender, and had already had significantly established relationships with both Tony and Steve. Unlike every other male Avenger, including Bruce, who had various love interests outside of the team.

If Marvel hadn't dropped the ball and committed to a Black Widow film in Phase 1 or 2, many of these issues could've been resolved. But now, in the wake of Wonder Woman's success, they're scrambling to rectify their mistakes, but much like the issues with Steve/Sharon, the damage is already done.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Dee

[blueray]

Quote

If Marvel hadn't dropped the ball and committed to a Black Widow film in Phase 1 or 2, many of these issues could've been resolved. But now, in the wake of Wonder Woman's success, they're scrambling to rectify their mistakes, but much like the issues with Steve/Sharon, the damage is already done.

I also wish that they did a Black Widow movie. I feel like there is still a lot about her background to talk about, plus she is a strong female character which would show in her movie. However, at this point so much happened, if made couldn't be an origin story and other characters probably would appear. However, it could still work set in the present.

[Wynterwolf]

15 minutes ago, blueray said:

I feel like there is still a lot about her background to talk about, plus she is a strong female character which would show in her movie. However, at this point so much happened, if made couldn't be an origin story and other characters probably would appear. However, it could still work set in the present.

Wasn't there rumors of the one they're working on possibly being set in the 2000's?   Before Tony becomes IronMan, but after Captain Marvel... or am I making that up?  But that would also bring the Winter Soldier back into play, which could call back to her line in CW about him remembering her.  

 

eta:  Here it is.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Wynterwolf

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

If Marvel hadn't dropped the ball and committed to a Black Widow film in Phase 1 or 2, many of these issues could've been resolved. But now, in the wake of Wonder Woman's success, they're scrambling to rectify their mistakes, but much like the issues with Steve/Sharon, the damage is already done.

 

I've said before that the best way for Marvel to do a Black Widow movie now, and actually get some deserved plaudits for it, would be to go for a practically all female cast. Natasha as the protagonist (obviously) and with female villains, and even a female sidekick/supporting hero for Nat.

The idea I have in my head is to use Yelena Belova as a younger, 'deadlier' version of the Black Widow, who Natasha has to stop. This would allow them to delve into her backstory, and the training programme that has only really been touched on briefly. Then I would have Viper as the big bad, who is controlling and manipulating Belova, with a personal grudge against Natasha.

Maria Hill and/or Sharon Carter could appear as already established secondary characters. And they could introduce a new character, like Tigra or Kate Bishop (who could work really well, as a young, impetuous sidekick).

From a purely personal point of view, I'd like to have Bucky appear as well, because their storyline in the comics was so great, but I think the movie would be a stronger statement if it was all women.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Danny Franks

[Dee]

8 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

From a purely personal point of view, I'd like to have Bucky appear as well, because their storyline in the comics was so great, but I think the movie would be a stronger statement if it was all women.

For what it's worth, Sebastian Stan would happily oblige. He's been advocating for more WinterWidow for years.

[Danny Franks]

44 minutes ago, Dee said:

For what it's worth, Sebastian Stan would happily oblige. He's been advocating for more WinterWidow for years.

It was such a good storyline, and a really great example of how good writers can use the absurdly convoluted Marvel Universe backstory to their advantage.

Briefly, for the uninitiated, after Bucky shook off the Winter Soldier programming, he ran into Natasha and they realised that they'd known each other, back when they were both being controlled and manipulated by the Soviet Red Room programme. Bucky was one of Natasha's trainers, and they'd started a relationship (not that healthily, given that they were a traumatised young woman and a man robbed of his memories). When their handlers found out, they forcibly separated them, and Natasha never saw him again. Bucky was put in suspended animation, and only brought out for assassination missions.

After that meeting, and after Bucky had tried to kill Tony Stark because he blamed him for Steve's death, Bucky agreed to become the new Captain America. Tony Stark tasked Natasha with helping him operate as a hero rather than an assassin, because she was the best example Bucky could have for making that transition. They slowly fell for each other again, but this time in full possession of their minds and memories, working together as Bucky tried to fill Steve's rather intimidating shoes.

But I think this is another boat Marvel has missed. If they wanted to do anything approximating this storyline, they needed more than two or three ambiguous lines from Natasha to set it up.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Danny Franks

[Shannon L.]

16 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

It was such a good storyline, and a really great example of how good writers can use the absurdly convoluted Marvel Universe backstory to their advantage.

Briefly, for the uninitiated, after Bucky shook off the Winter Soldier programming, he ran into Natasha and they realised that they'd known each other, back when they were both being controlled and manipulated by the Soviet Red Room programme. Bucky was one of Natasha's trainers, and they'd started a relationship (not that healthily, given that they were a traumatised young woman and a man robbed of his memories could). When their handlers found out, they forcibly separated them, and Natasha never saw him again. Bucky was put in suspended animation, and only brought out for assassination missions.

After that meeting, and after Bucky had tried to kill Tony Stark because he blamed him for Steve's death, Bucky agreed to become the new Captain America. Tony Stark tasked Natasha with helping him operate as a hero rather than an assassin, because she was the best example Bucky could have for making that transition. They slowly fell for each other again, but this time in full possession of their minds and memories, working together as Bucky tried to fill Steve's rather intimidating shoes.

But I think this is another boat Marvel has missed. If they wanted to do anything approximating this storyline, they needed more than two or three ambiguous lines from Natasha to set it up.

That sounds awesome! When she said to him, while they were fighting in Civil War, something like "Don't you at least remember me?", I thought she was referring to the story she told Steve of when the Winter Soldier shot through her to get to the man she was trying to protect.  Was that made up for CA: WS?  Maybe she was referring back to her training?

And here I was hoping for a good movie with her and Hawkeye in Budapest.  I think this one would be even better.

[festivus]

38 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

It was such a good storyline, and a really great example of how good writers can use the absurdly convoluted Marvel Universe backstory to their advantage.

Briefly, for the uninitiated, after Bucky shook off the Winter Soldier programming, he ran into Natasha and they realised that they'd known each other, back when they were both being controlled and manipulated by the Soviet Red Room programme. Bucky was one of Natasha's trainers, and they'd started a relationship (not that healthily, given that they were a traumatised young woman and a man robbed of his memories). When their handlers found out, they forcibly separated them, and Natasha never saw him again. Bucky was put in suspended animation, and only brought out for assassination missions.

After that meeting, and after Bucky had tried to kill Tony Stark because he blamed him for Steve's death, Bucky agreed to become the new Captain America. Tony Stark tasked Natasha with helping him operate as a hero rather than an assassin, because she was the best example Bucky could have for making that transition. They slowly fell for each other again, but this time in full possession of their minds and memories, working together as Bucky tried to fill Steve's rather intimidating shoes.

But I think this is another boat Marvel has missed. If they wanted to do anything approximating this storyline, they needed more than two or three ambiguous lines from Natasha to set it up.

This is making me want to read the comic story. I'm beginning to think we're never getting that Natasha movie. 

[Danny Franks]

28 minutes ago, Shannon L. said:

That sounds awesome! When she said to him, while they were fighting in Civil War, something like "Don't you at least remember me?", I thought she was referring to the story she told Steve of when the Winter Soldier shot through her to get to the man she was trying to protect.  Was that made up for CA: WS?  Maybe she was referring back to her training?

And here I was hoping for a good movie with her and Hawkeye in Budapest.  I think this one would be even better.

And that's without even mentioning the 16 issue run of them being a sexy, secret spy couple, trying to track down Soviet sleeper agents.

I don't know what they meant with that line. It felt like a tease about their comic book storyline, while also working as a snarky call back to him shooting her. It certainly gave me false hope that they would delve into that backstory a little. In the comics that event never happened, because they never saw one another again until he tries to take Cap's shield back from SHIELD:

https://lowbrowcomics.com/2016/04/19/the-winter-soldier-vs-black-widow-the-battle-for-captain-americas-shield-civil-war-epiloguethe-initiative/

Unfortunately, I can't find any images of the next issue, which focuses on Natasha's reaction to their encounter. Including the badass exchange:

Natasha: "I'm fine."

Tony Stark: "You're not fine, you have a concussion."

Natasha: "Well then, I'll be fine in about twenty minutes."

Edited May 23, 2018 by Danny Franks

[festivus]

I tried looking this up but I don't really know where to start. Is there an omnibus that tells this story?

 

ETA: I just finished that panel. I need to read this story!

Edited May 23, 2018 by festivus

[Shannon L.]

19 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

And that's without even mentioning the 16 issue run of them being a sexy, secret spy couple, trying to track down Soviet sleeper agents.

Omg....please don't tease me..... :)

[Dee]

The most frustrating aspect about the end of this initial era of MCU, is that the MCU has finally found its groove with so many of its tentpole characters.

Sure, the Iron Man leg of the franchise may have arguably reached its conclusion, and RDJ/CE are ready to retire, but the rest of the franchises feel very vital.

There are plenty stories left for any combo of TeamCap (Nat/Sam/Bucky) and, after Ragnarok & Infinity War, Thor has just began to hit his stride.

It would be a shame to abandon all that potential to chase a younger demographic.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Dee

[Danny Franks]

14 minutes ago, festivus said:

I tried looking this up but I don't really know where to start. Is there an omnibus that tells this story?

 This, this and this are what you want. They cover Captain America vol 5, issues 1 to 42. The Winter Soldier storyline, the Captain America issues that tied in to Civil War, the Death of Captain America storyline and Bucky taking up the mantle to honour Steve's memory. If you only wanted to read the Bucky/Natasha part, then you could just get the third one on its own, but I think the story reads best from start to finish (and also gives a lot of depth to Steve, his friendship with Bucky and his relationship with Sharon).

There's a bit more, in various Marvel books, that involve Steve returning (because of course he was never quite dead), before we get to Bucky faking his own death, with Natasha's help. So they could hunt those sleeper agents.

And this is the Winter Soldier book, with Bucky and Nat being sexy spies together.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Danny Franks

[festivus]

Thanks! I've been looking through Amazon but I couldn't figure out where to start. I think I do want to read the whole story.

[VCRTracking]

Captain Marvel To Reveal Coulson's SHIELD Origins, Clark Gregg Says | Entertainment Weekly

 

[Morrigan2575]

Oh that's cool, I had no idea he was in the film

[Bruinsfan]

Ugh, he's more unflushable than Neal McDonough's character on Legends of Tomorrow.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Mantis' mean face  makes me happy. She looks like an angry puppy.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Cobalt Stargazer

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, Bruinsfan said:

Ugh, he's more unflushable than Neal McDonough's character on Legends of Tomorrow.

The movie is set in the 1990s when Coulson and Nick Fury were younger. Also I like Couson a lot in the MCU movies and on Agents of SHIELD.

[Danny Franks]

9 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Ugh, he's more unflushable than Neal McDonough's character on Legends of Tomorrow.

He's one of the biggest reasons for me deciding not to watch Agents of SHIELD, after the first dozen episodes of season one. If he has any sort of major role in Captain Marvel, I may have to seriously think about whether i watch that movie.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Danny Franks

[Jeebus Cripes]

On 5/22/2018 at 2:23 PM, Dee said:

Supposedly Ryan Gosling was the first choice to play Mysterio but, much like DeWanda Wise, had to remove himself from the running because of scheduling conflicts.

Since Marvel seems to be into both Gosling and Wise, and other actors such as, John Boyega and Trevante Rhodes have also said they've been in talks to star in superhero films themselves, how would you cast them if/when they finally made it into the Marvel universe?

I desperately need Ryan Gosling to be in the new X-Men film as Cyclops. 

10 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Ugh, he's more unflushable than Neal McDonough's character on Legends of Tomorrow.

Coulson really should've stayed dead in Avengers. He's not the main reason I hate Agents of SHIELD, but any goodwill I had towards the character was lost a long time ago.

[benteen]

I'm through with Coulson and Agents of Shield myself although I think his appearance makes sense here.  If there was any other character from AoS that I wish Captain Marvel would bring in, it's Ming Na's Agent May.

[Enigma X]

6 hours ago, Jeebus Cripes said:

I desperately need Ryan Gosling to be in the new X-Men film as Cyclops. 

 

YES to this!

[HunterHunted]

No love for Agents of SHIELD around here. It's too bad. The show is actually pretty entertaining. Unfortunately, it had to spin its wheels until Winter Soldier. It picked up afterwards. The Ghost Rider and LMD/Secret Empire arcs were stellar. May is a fantastic character who should absolutely be brought into the film side of the MCU. And unlike the film side of the MCU, AoS's fight scenes aren't chopped to shit. Actually most of the fight scenes on AoS and Marvel Netflix are better than the movies because the films have never met an opportunity for a cut that they didn't take. It's all cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut just to show 3 punches.

Ryan Gosling as Cyclops is inspired.

[VCRTracking]

9 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

He's one of the biggest reasons for me deciding not to watch Agents of SHIELD, after the first dozen episodes of season one. If he has any sort of major role in Captain Marvel, I may have to seriously think about whether i watch that movie.

Of course you stopped watching before it got good! For me, his reaction to the reveal that Hydra had infiltrated SHIELD and everything he had believed in was a lie had more emotional impact than anything in the actual Winter Soldier movie(which I liked!)

Totally agree that Melinda May should be in the movies.

[ChelseaNH]

2 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Unfortunately, it had to spin its wheels until Winter Soldier.

No, it did not.  There is no reason they couldn't have gone charging forward with their own agenda, only to have everything derailed by the collapse of SHIELD.  Punting was a choice.

[HunterHunted]

18 minutes ago, ChelseaNH said:

No, it did not.  There is no reason they couldn't have gone charging forward with their own agenda, only to have everything derailed by the collapse of SHIELD.  Punting was a choice.

It was a choice by Joss, who was/is an executive producer of Agents of SHIELD and, at the time, an architect of the MCU. He wanted season of Agents of SHIELD to build to the HYDRA reveal, which meant a fair amount of wheel spinning. Since Joss has left the MCU, Agents of SHIELD and the rest of the films, exception being Doctor Strange, have gotten a lot better.

https://www.cbr.com/tancharoen-whedon-detail-the-fateful-post-winter-soldier-agents-of-shield/

Edited May 25, 2018 by HunterHunted

[VCRTracking]

3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Unfortunately, it had to spin its wheels until Winter Soldier. It picked up afterwards.

 

23 minutes ago, ChelseaNH said:

No, it did not.  There is no reason they couldn't have gone charging forward with their own agenda, only to have everything derailed by the collapse of SHIELD.  Punting was a choice.

And I would argue that it wasn't "spinning it's wheels" or "punting". It was a like a lot of other network TV shows where they had a "case of the week" or "monster of the week". Just set in the MCU. They didn't deal with anything on the world shaking level of the movies but just smaller but still interesting stories. Seeing reaction videos of people watching the first season for the first time recently made me those early episodes weren't actually that bad, they just got a bad rap because people were comparing it to the big theatrical films which had bigger budgets and better special effects.

Edited May 25, 2018 by VCRTracking

[stealinghome]

40 minutes ago, ChelseaNH said:

No, it did not.  There is no reason they couldn't have gone charging forward with their own agenda, only to have everything derailed by the collapse of SHIELD.  Punting was a choice.

I don’t even think it was about having its own agenda, the show just needed to make me CARE about the characters pre-Winter Soldier, so that I cared when the team felt the reverberations of that movie. The show literally had one job pre-Winter Soldier: make me care. It failed miserably at that. I liked May and Simmons and had the show been about them I’d totally have kept on watching, but they couldn’t outweigh my seething dislike for Skye, high-key irritation with Coulson, and low-key eyeroll towards Fitz and Ward. (Seriously, the best episode I remember watching is whenever Maria Hill showed up to verbally bitchslap Coulson. It was SO satisfying to see her tell him to stfu!)

[HunterHunted]

4 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

And I would argue that it wasn't "spinning it's wheels" or "punting". It was a like other network TV shows where they had a "case of the week" or "monster of the week". Just set in the MCU. They didn't deal with anything on the world shaking level of the movies but just smaller but still interesting stories. Seeing reaction videos of people watching the first season for the first time recently made me those early episodes weren't actually that bad, they just got a bad rap because people were comparing it to the big theatrical films which had bigger budgets and better special effects.

I'd also like to add that the way SHIELD was presented in the films would lead you to believe that SHIELD has the world's weirdest agenda, for example:

• Tony Stark, a top defense contractor, goes missing and SHIELD doesn't get involved. However, they do get involved when he escapes from the 10 Rings and builds a mini arc reactor.
• SHIELD gets involved when Thor and mjolnir crash on Earth.
• SHIELD only monitors when Ivan Vanvko builds his own arc reactor, leaves Siberia, attacks Tony Stark, and "dies." They get involved when Tony's arc reactor is poisoning him.
• SHIELD doesn't get involved when the Hulk breaks Harlem, but they do manipulate Tony Stark into annoying the shit out of Thunderbolt Ross.
• SHIELD recovers the Tesseract and begins experimenting on it. They also locate and unfreeze Captain America.
• We've seen SHIELD agents fight an alien invasion in Avengers.
• We've also seen Black Widow steal information.

If you'd been going by what you saw in the films, you'd think SHIELD gets involved with big calamitous events, except when they don't want to like Hulk stuff or any of that Vanko mess. I think, going in, a lot of fans had no clue what to expect of the show. And I remember, even 2 seasons in, thinking they might have had an easier time if they had just gone with a Damage Control show.