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The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.


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36 minutes ago, Dee said:

Hemsworth has said in recent interviews he had a blast doing Ragnarok & is considering sticking around post-Infinity Wars.

So we can assume that

Spoiler

Thor survives Infinity Wars and A4 then?

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It's certainly possible. Working with Taika really reinvigorated him in terms of the character and the franchise(s) as a whole, so his status right now is anyone's guess.

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Lashana Lynch Replacing DeWanda Wise in 'Captain Marvel'

Quote

Lashana Lynch is in final negotiations to replace DeWanda Wise in Captain Marvel, sources tell The Hollywood Reporter. 

The English actress would be joining the Marvel Studios feature after Wise had to drop out of the project due to scheduling conflicts with the second season of Netflix and Spike Lee's She's Gotta Have It.

Marvel could not be reached for comment.

Edited by Dee
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So I just watched BP for the 3rd time. And it struck me at the end how similar this was to Civil War. You have T'Challa and W'Kabi, close friends turned against each other oh so quickly. With a group that usually lives in a harmony now fighting each other over with each believes to be the right thing to do. There's even dead parents thrown in! This gives me hope that T'Challa is going to play in getting Steve and Tony to reconcile. I have half baked fanfic bouncing around my head right now about the aftermath of the fight between the Border tribe and the Dora Milaje/Jabari. Such as T'Challa and the council determining that the River tribe will spend a certain amount of time in disgrace, before being forgiven. And that W'Kabi will do similar but ultimately they are all Wakandans and no one is a bad person here but simply that they must work together better in the future.

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^^Well, hell.  The 3:50 mark!  I'm going to have to bring tissues to IW.*  The fans' kids practically grew up with these characters (my 10 year old boy is now a 20 year old young adult!).  The adult fans grew old with them.  Our family tradition was to go to an evening show on opening weekend.  I missed one in all those years (but saw it the Monday afternoon after it opened) and my son, who now has a new job and doesn't feel like he's had enough time to request certain days off yet (welcome to adult life, right?), missed Black Panther with us and will be seeing IW with friends on his day off as close to opening weekend as possible.  All in all, not a bad run for us. 

I can not believe that a grown ass woman is so involved with fictional movie characters and you know what? I'm only slightly embarrassed by it.  Kudos to everyone involved for doing accomplishing that. 

*My daughter has a friend who is convinced that the only survivors are T'Challa, Peter Parker, Bucky and maybe Peter Quill and some of his crew.    I told her that if they do that, I'll be a sobbing mess for the rest of the night  :)

Edited by Shannon L.
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Okay, this might be a controversial question. But what's the appeal of Bucky? I've seen the three CA movies, and he just didn't have an affect on me. Sebastian Stan is fine, he doesn't stink up the screen or anything. But I haven't seen anything that makes him stand out or leave a big impression. So I'm asking his fans, what's the deal?

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I think Bucky's appeal lies in his relationship with Steve. They had a relationship before Steve became Captain America and before all of this Winter Soldier biz. The same way Steve's relationship with Peggy is appealing because you can tell she was already softening to him before the experiment. These are his pre-Cap people. They were diehard for him before. They were diehard for him after. Steve missed out on a romantic relationship with Peggy, but has an opportunity to recapture a friendship with Bucky. 

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9 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I think Bucky's appeal lies in his relationship with Steve.

That's part of it, because that relationship shows (for both characters) that they are capable of deep caring, understanding and loyalty and those things are hella sexy to a lot of people, but there's a great deal more to it than just that. 

12 hours ago, Joe said:

Okay, this might be a controversial question. But what's the appeal of Bucky?

Because of his backstory, I think a lot of people who feel marginalized, particularly for mental health issues, feel a strong kinship and identification with the character's struggles, how he's treated, and how he feels about himself (which is another reason why a lot of us love Steve, because of how much he gets about Bucky and how he supports him and just loves him), and this is tremendously enhanced by SS himself, and how he plays the character, and also who he (the actor) is as a person off screen.  SS is an extremely empathetic person off screen which it's illustrated in how he treats his fans and what he says in his interviews, and I thinks it's a large part of why he's able to bring such humanity to the character, which many of us just get on an instinctive level.  

Edited by Wynterwolf
quote was in the wrong place
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1 hour ago, Wynterwolf said:

this is tremendously enhanced by SS himself, and how he plays the character,

Who are you telling? I've been watching Sebastian Stan since before he was on Gossip Girl playing Carter Bazien, which I clearly watched. I watched him on Law & Order where he played kidnapped sniper, Justin Capshaw. This is an episode that coincidentally featured Ty Burrell who would portray Dr. Leonard Samson in the Incredible Hulk. I knew back then that Sebatian Stan was one to watch. I watched him in the Covenant, which some how cast a ton of young hot actors, but still managed to be terrible. I watched him in Kings and Political Animals (aka What If Hillary Clinton Divorced Bill to Run Against Barack Obama in 2012). But I also knew Michael B. Jordan was one to watch from back in his All My Children days. I'd say the Wire too, but I actually saw the Wire after he had started on AMC.

Edited by HunterHunted
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1 hour ago, Joe said:

Thanks. I can see where you're both coming from. Though it sounds like he's more a symbol than an actual character.

I'm curious what you mean by that?  I'm not sure I'm following... 

eta:  The reason I'm asking is because I think every fictional character is essentially a symbol of something in the creator's imagination.  So, I'm not sure why that would make Bucky's popularity different from any of the other MCU characters?  

Edited by Wynterwolf
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1 hour ago, Wynterwolf said:

SS is an extremely empathetic person off screen which it's illustrated in how he treats his fans and what he says in his interviews, and I thinks it's a large part of why he's able to bring such humanity to the character, which many of us just get on an instinctive level.  

And for me, that's obvious in one line:  "I knew him".  I agree with everything you and @HunterHunted said.  Bucky is one of my favorites because of who he is to Steve, what was done to him and what that means to both of them, as well as others, at a personal level.  He's definitely one of the more sympathetic characters, imo.  As amazing as Tom Hiddleston has been at bringing depth to Loki, his story still doesn't move me like Bucky's does.

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I'm not sure if this is real or not   (Note the start date of April 1st)

Disney to Launch "Marvel TV Channel"

Not only could Marvel (with a small acknowledgement to Disney) make a streaming channel

with all of their previous properties, the fact that DC is currently working on their own

streaming channel will actually necessitate Marvel to come up with their own.

The only problem that I see is, of course, the more recent movies (and characters)

that were under the banner of the other movie companies like Sony would probably not

be made available for the Disney streaming channel.

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Steve and Bucky are such interesting contrasts. Steve volunteered for the super soldier program, but followed orders and became a symbol over a soldier until he was goaded into action by Bucky's capture. Bucky was forced into the Winter Soldier program, but voluntarily tried to keep himself off the grid when he realized what he was being forced to do. They are both good guys, but I'm sort of always wowed that the decades of death, carnage, and torture hasn't destroyed Bucky's fundamental deceny.

In Civil War, Bucky says something about the authorities always coming after him. This tells us that he's run at least one time before. Even though Steve reminds Bucky that Bucky is being too harsh in repelling the authorities, we've got to realize that as the Winter Soldier, Bucky wouldn't have been trained or programmed with any nonlethal techniques. Running was his nonlethal response.

▪▪▪▪▪

In another comparison, all of Odin's kids are kind of douchebags. Some of them get less douchey as time progresses, but they all start as jerks. Thor starts off as a dumb bro-y douche who thinks he can solve all of his problems with punching. He becomes less douchey as time progresses. Loki is a scheming jealous jerk who really only starts to get more sympathetic in the Dark World. And Hela is angry that her father encouraged her ambition and violence until he found it monstrous and imprisoned her and lied about her existence. She straight up never gets better. And each one of his kids has proposed genocide at least once--Thor for the Jotuns, Loki for humans, and Hela for everyone everywhere.

Thanos might be the worst father in the MCU, but Odin is no slouch.

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Well, I don't know about the Marvel TV channel but Disney did put out release yesterday that the superheroes were coming to the parks. Interestingly enough, Disney World was not included in that. Disneyland, Disneyland Paris, and Disneyland Tokyo (I think... maybe Hong Kong) are all getting Marvel lands. Disney World is probably a trickier situation given Universal Islands of Adventure.

But for all of us saying that the Imagineers were champing at the bit to start designing Wakanda... hells yes. It's happening. Among other things, I'm sure. And this just causes further strife for me because I disagree with a LOT that Disney does but then they keep building stuff that I want to see. And then they piss me off and it's... I'm torn between two worlds. It's frustrating as hell.

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5 minutes ago, Twilight Man said:

I'm not sure if this is real or not   (Note the start date of April 1st)

Disney to Launch "Marvel TV Channel"

Not only could Marvel (with a small acknowledgement to Disney) make a streaming channel

with all of their previous properties, the fact that DC is currently working on their own

streaming channel will actually necessitate Marvel to come up with their own.

The only problem that I see is, of course, the more recent movies (and characters)

that were under the banner of the other movie companies like Sony would probably not

be made available for the Disney streaming channel.

Per the article that's only for the month of April, which makes sense since I don't think Marvel has enough content for a streaming service. Which is why I have to wonder what DC's thinking. Warner Brothers and DC might have enough of a library, but who's going to pay for just DC?

Now a streaming service that had the combined libraries of Disney, Pixar, Lucasfilm, Marvel, and (possibly) Fox is another story.

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27 minutes ago, Dandesun said:

Well, I don't know about the Marvel TV channel but Disney did put out release yesterday that the superheroes were coming to the parks. Interestingly enough, Disney World was not included in that. Disneyland, Disneyland Paris, and Disneyland Tokyo (I think... maybe Hong Kong) are all getting Marvel lands. Disney World is probably a trickier situation given Universal Islands of Adventure.

But for all of us saying that the Imagineers were champing at the bit to start designing Wakanda... hells yes. It's happening. Among other things, I'm sure. And this just causes further strife for me because I disagree with a LOT that Disney does but then they keep building stuff that I want to see. And then they piss me off and it's... I'm torn between two worlds. It's frustrating as hell.

Marvel made a perpetual agreement with Universal that Universal would have exclusive use of all Marvel Character for theme parks east of the Mississippi.  Although Marvel has to approve any changes or additions involving those characters.  I believe Disney was (at least for a time) no longer approving anything in hopes that Universal would make a deal which obviously hasn't happened yet.  

 

It's a shame as I'm very likely to go back to Disney World but not likely to go to Disney Land.  

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4 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I watched him on Law & Order where he played kidnapped sniper, Justin Capshaw

OMG, no way! That was Sebastian Stan?! I'm a Law & Order junky (watching it right now) I've seen that episode a dozen times. Next time it's on I'm going to be paying very close attention.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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9 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I think Bucky's appeal lies in his relationship with Steve. ... ... Steve missed out on a romantic relationship with Peggy, but has an opportunity to recapture a friendship with Bucky. 

Yes, the relationship between Bucky and Steve is extremely important especially as it pertains to the modern day. Steve lost everything to war and time and, as it turns out, Bucky survived. In a way, you can see Steve losing himself (especially in the deleted scenes from Avengers where he's just wandering around Manhattan or looking through the old SSR files) and as much as Steve found a cause with the Avengers (although it's been sketchy with SHIELD) discovering Bucky was alive... and what HYDRA did to him... made it all very personal. And you could get the sense through Winter Soldier and Civil War that Steve wanted to bring his friend, who he thought he had failed to save, home at long last. It's very poignant.

And yes... 'recapture a friendship' ::eyebrow waggle:: Oh, whatever. I'm full on Stucky trash. We all know it. 

 

5 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

That's part of it, because that relationship shows (for both characters) that they are capable of deep caring, understanding and loyalty and those things are hella sexy to a lot of people, but there's a great deal more to it than just that. 

Because of his backstory, I think a lot of people who feel marginalized, particularly for mental health issues, feel a strong kinship and identification with the character's struggles, how he's treated, and how he feels about himself (which is another reason why a lot of us love Steve, because of how much he gets about Bucky and how he supports him and just loves him), and this is tremendously enhanced by SS himself, and how he plays the character, and also who he (the actor) is as a person off screen.  SS is an extremely empathetic person off screen which it's illustrated in how he treats his fans and what he says in his interviews, and I thinks it's a large part of why he's able to bring such humanity to the character, which many of us just get on an instinctive level.  

Bucky is something of a symbol, too. He is the forgotten POW vet struggling to recapture any kind of sense in his life. He went from this cocky, charming guy in the 40s to a broken down shell. And he was a good person. He was one of the very few who loved little, angry, how-does-he-even-get-out-of-bed Steve and saw value in him before he got the serum. And the fact that he is the only one left who did see value in Steve Rogers long before Captain America is just one reason why Steve was so intent on saving him. And also why you could see that Steve still saw Bucky Barnes and not the Winter Soldier. The parallel between them and their stories run deep. It's good stuff.

4 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

 I watched him in the Covenant, which some how cast a ton of young hot actors, but still managed to be terrible. 

Oh my God, that movie. Yes, so much pretty. So much terrible. It is fucking hilarious... it really is. Why did anyone bother casting 'love interests' in that movie? Talk about pointless. Especially since the main love interest was there solely to be damseled and, come on... can we not? Also, I recall Seb Stan commenting on only having six lines of dialog in Winter Soldier but also being like 'hey, that's fine, sometimes dialog is awful' because some of the lines he had to say in The Covenant were so cringey.

3 hours ago, Shannon L. said:

And for me, that's obvious in one line:  "I knew him".  I agree with everything you and @HunterHunted said.  Bucky is one of my favorites because of who he is to Steve, what was done to him and what that means to both of them, as well as others, at a personal level.  He's definitely one of the more sympathetic characters, imo.  As amazing as Tom Hiddleston has been at bringing depth to Loki, his story still doesn't move me like Bucky's does.

Loki is the God of Mischief. And also the God of Being Really Douchey and Genocidal Due to Jotun-Pain. Hiddleston is wildly charming and charismatic but Loki's a douche. Full on and flat out. He staged a coup and sent the Destroyer out to kill Thor because his feelings were hurt... by Odin adopting him and not telling him where he came from. Um... okay. So, Loki's a villain. A damn entertaining one but still a villain. Even in Ragnarok he's trying to betray Thor and hand him over to the Grandmaster so, yeah. Meanwhile, Bucky as the Winter Soldier. Not a villain. Not even close. Not after you see what HYDRA did to him and continued to do to him throughout the Winter Soldier.

 

31 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Steve and Bucky are such interesting contrasts. Steve volunteered for the super soldier program, but followed orders and became a symbol over a soldier until he was goaded into action by Bucky's capture. Bucky was forced into the Winter Soldier program, but voluntarily tried to keep himself off the grid when he realized what he was being forced to do. They are both good guys, but I'm sort of always wowed that the decades of death, carnage, and torture hasn't destroyed Bucky's fundamental deceny.

 

That Bucky was trying to put the pieces of his shattered memory together in Civil War... that Stan felt that the only reason Bucky didn't eat a bullet was because he knew it would hurt Steve... that Steve went to subdue Bucky and then protect him when he realized he wasn't responsible for the bombing in CW and that, ultimately, even as it was breaking his heart, Steve stepped back and let Bucky make the choice regarding cryo and protecting others from what HYDRA did to him because it was Bucky finally getting to choose something for himself. Yeah, their relationship, their friendship, it means a lot to the MCU at large.

Which is why I know I will be crying copious tears come Infinity War. I just know it.

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4 minutes ago, Dandesun said:

Bucky is something of a symbol, too.

Absolutely, I agree... but the original poster seemed to be making a distinction between a "symbol" and an "actual character" and that he was one, but not the other.  I wasn't sure what they meant by that.  One of the strongest character elements for me, which was on display quite a bit in CW, is the fact that he's a long-term former POW and a disabled war veteran.  And it seems like that might be explored more in IW, especially since Seb has said Bucky and Sam will be spending significant time together in IW, so I'm definitely looking forward to that!  

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13 hours ago, Joe said:

Okay, this might be a controversial question. But what's the appeal of Bucky? I've seen the three CA movies, and he just didn't have an affect on me. Sebastian Stan is fine, he doesn't stink up the screen or anything. But I haven't seen anything that makes him stand out or leave a big impression. So I'm asking his fans, what's the deal?

Bucky is the Spike (Buffy The Vampire Slayer) of the MCU.

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1 hour ago, Wynterwolf said:

Sorry about the confusion... one of the quotes was in the wrong place.  

Naw. It was rhetorical question. Don't worry.

59 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

OMG, no way! That was Sebastian Stan?! I'm a Law & Order junky (watching it right now) I've seen that episode a dozen times. Next time it's on I'm going to be paying very close attention.

 

He's very good in the episode.

40 minutes ago, Dandesun said:

Oh my God, that movie. Yes, so much pretty. So much terrible. It is fucking hilarious... it really is. Why did anyone bother casting 'love interests' in that movie? Talk about pointless. Especially since the main love interest was there solely to be damseled and, come on... can we not? Also, I recall Seb Stan commenting on only having six lines of dialog in Winter Soldier but also being like 'hey, that's fine, sometimes dialog is awful' because some of the lines he had to say in The Covenant were so cringey.

So terrible. The main love interest was completely damseled. It reminds me of a Chuck Palahniuk reading I went to years ago. Someone asked a question about Marla Singer in Fight Club. Palahniuk admitted that he wrote Marla in because he wasn't out yet and he didn't want the narrator (Ed Norton's character in the film) and Tyler to come across as gay. It clearly didn't work in the Covenant because no amount of half naked love interests could make any of those characters seem unassailably straight.

I hadn't realized how few lines Stan had in Winter Soldier. That Stan and Evans could sell this conflicted relationship with so few lines is a testament to them both.

Edited by HunterHunted
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33 minutes ago, Dee said:

Loki is the Ethan Rayne of the MCU.

I guess, but I don't even think Giles trusts or thinks Ethan is worthy of any redemptive efforts. Thor is at least still putting in the effort to get Loki to be less of a dickbag. Additionally, I don't recall the Buffyverse going to any great pains to explain away or excuse Ethan's dickishness. Whereas Spike was given 10,000 excuses much like Loki.

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4 hours ago, Captain Carrot said:

Per the article that's only for the month of April, which makes sense since I don't think Marvel has enough content for a streaming service. Which is why I have to wonder what DC's thinking. Warner Brothers and DC might have enough of a library, but who's going to pay for just DC?

Now a streaming service that had the combined libraries of Disney, Pixar, Lucasfilm, Marvel, and (possibly) Fox is another story.

I actually think DC has enough properties to launch a streaming service, especially if they can bring the currently airing shows to the service in a year or two. They've got 10 years of Smallville, the Timmverse (8 tv shows and 4 movies), the animated films (30 films), Lois & Clark, Birds of Prey, Superboy, Batman, the other animated shows (Teen Titans, Brave and the Bold, Beware the Batman, The Batman, Teen Titans Go, Young Justice, Green Lantern, and everything I'm missing), all of the new shows they are developing, and all of the DCEU. If they can add older seasons of the current airing tv shows, it absolutely makes sense to have a DC streaming service.

Edited by HunterHunted
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3 hours ago, Matt K said:

Marvel made a perpetual agreement with Universal that Universal would have exclusive use of all Marvel Character for theme parks east of the Mississippi.  Although Marvel has to approve any changes or additions involving those characters.  I believe Disney was (at least for a time) no longer approving anything in hopes that Universal would make a deal which obviously hasn't happened yet.  

 

It's a shame as I'm very likely to go back to Disney World but not likely to go to Disney Land.  

There are some weird clauses to that deal though. Disney is allowed to use characters in Florida that have never been featured in movies or tv shows, and if the do use those characters they aren't allowed to reference that they are Marvel characters. For example i was at Disney World in the fall of 2016 and Doctor Strange was walking around Hollywood studios.

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26 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I guess, but I don't even think Giles trusts or thinks Ethan is worthy of any redemptive efforts. Thor is at least still putting in the effort to get Loki to be less of a dickbag. Additionally, I don't recall the Buffyverse going to any great pains to explain away or excuse Ethan's dickishness. Whereas Spike was given 10,000 excuses much like Loki.

I don't think Thor is still putting in effort with Loki.

By Ragnarok he's completely written Loki off; and even when the rest of The Revengers are escaping Sakaar, Loki is only included because of his info, not because Thor is feeling particularly empathetic. And when Loki betrays him, yet again, Thor leaves him essentially to die.

Giles, much like Thor, totally believes that Ethan could be redeemed. Which is why Giles doesn't kill him whenever he has the chance. The difference is Ethan, unlike Loki, isn't beset by middle child syndrome and incessant Daddy issues which is Loki's perpetual achilles heel. Yet, for all of Ethan's shenanigans, he never truly really tries to harm Giles. If Giles weren't so busy attempting to ignore his own darker impulses and notorious past, he wouldn't be as hostile toward Ethan who, when not in immediate danger, is quite affable toward Giles imo.

Loki isn't given excuses. Nobody in the MCU, including Thor, makes excuses for what Loki's done. At the end of Ragnarok, when Thor says they're headed back to Earth, Loki, himself, questions if it's a wise idea to bring him along.

Whereas the sun shines out of Spike's ass. LITERALLY.

Edited by Dee
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9 minutes ago, Dee said:

Whereas the sun shines out of Spike's ass. LITERALLY.

Maybe, but I could totally see Loki playing cripple because he's too much of a bitch to take on Angelus (the Grandmaster) by himself (doesn't want to risk the cushy spot he's weaseled for himself), then rabbits the second he gets what he wants, if a certain scene in the new IW trailer is anything to go by. It's like acne, being a backstabber is something he can't help.

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As someone who knows nothing about the Marvel Comics, I'm wondering if we'll see Loki redeem himself (or the writers attempting to redeem him) in IW by dying to save Thor?  Just a thought.....

@Dandesun, I should have been more specific in my post re: Loki.  His story doesn't move me because the whole jealousy and "wah, wah, you didn't tell me about my birth right" stuff is a bit ridiculous.  However you see Odin as a father, he didn't leave a baby to die, so that's something and Loki's so ungrateful it's maddening.  Yes, Hiddleston is not only charming, but is really good at making you understand the complex feelings that Loki had throughout the movies he's been in.

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8 hours ago, Dee said:

With the MCU headed into its next big Phase, which superheroes do you think will be appearing next?

Namor. I need Namor (played by an Asian actor because come on already) in the next FF movie or the Black Panther sequel.

Monica Rambeau (Captain Marvel, Phonton, et al), who it looks like we're getting in Captain Marvel but they've yet to confirm that.

Beast, because I actually think he works slightly better as an Avenger. He just works well anywhere, what a great character that has yet to be done justice onscreen.

The Young Avengers, it would be really neat to see kids who've grown up with the Avengers in universe start their own team (maybe not with that name). Because that would be fun for the kids who've grown up with the MCU in the real world and is definitely something that would happen if the Avengers were real. I actually wish they would have made Cassie Lang a little older so it could happen sooner than later but whatever, that's fine.

Rick Jones. Bruce needs a friend that isn't a superhero. Or just some supporting characters, something.

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9 hours ago, Dee said:

With the MCU headed into its next big Phase, which superheroes do you think will be appearing next?

Honestly with the way these corporate sells offs and mergers are happening, I'm half expecting it to be Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman.

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39 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

Honestly with the way these corporate sells offs and mergers are happening, I'm half expecting it to be Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman.

Well god knows Marvel would do a better job handling them (except for Wonder Woman. She is perfect!). 

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3 hours ago, JessePinkman said:

Namor. I need Namor (played by an Asian actor because come on already) in the next FF movie or the Black Panther sequel.

Apparently, the rights to Namor aren't completely at Marvel free and clear, which explains why fuck-all is being done with him.

https://www.newsarama.com/37798-marvel-film-rights-dissassembled-which-characters-still-off-limits-for-disney.html

http://www.thegeektwins.com/2016/07/who-owns-namor-movie-rights.html

https://nerdist.com/marvel-film-rights-infographic-x-men-spider-man/

Edited by HunterHunted
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