The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[Danny Franks]

I think Cap is great. Yes, the character is boring, in that he's got no edge to him, he's got no attitude or glib, witty one liners. He's a big old goober, and I love him for it. Chris Evans embodied Cap perfectly, with his upright, honest and guileless performance. The guy is endearing in his decency and it's nice to see that there can still be old fashioned heroes like him. The closest he got to being some emo angst-case was worrying if he was a bit out of place in the modern world.

 

You've got Tony, with his brash, larger-than-life persona, you've got Thor who is literally larger than life, and has a huge personality, and then you've got Steve Rogers, the kid from Brooklyn who wanted to join up and fight because it was the right thing to do. And I totally buy that the others have complete, utter respect for him, by the end of the movie.

 

There's the great line from Tony about "everything that's special about you came out of a bottle". Quick, funny, but totally untrue. Almost nothing that's special about Steve came out of that bottle. It was all there already, within him. That's who the character is.

 

Oh, and I like Iron Man 2 more than Iron Man 3. And more than Thor: The Dark World.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Danny Franks

[JayKay]

Great point about Cap not being angsty. I never even thought about it. I think since he grew up weak and helpless, Steve sees his strength and abilities as a huge blessing, even when things are bad. That scene in Winter Soldier where Steve and Natasha are talking in Sam's place really shed some light on how Steve works. She tells him that she'd think he'd be more upset considering that he "died" for nothing, and he says that he's just glad to know who he's fighting. Things are as bleak as they've ever been and he's just grateful that he can help. Steve sees doing good as a true privilege and not a guilt-driven cause. It's so refreshing. Even when there's a huge responsibility on his shoulders, he's living his dream.

 

I haven't seen The Dark World yet, but I loathed Iron Man 3. I'd rather watch X-Men: The Last Stand than Iron Man 3. I feel like IM3 didn't know what it wanted to be or who it was about. It took me a handful of tries gritting my teeth to get through it just in case there was something important that would impact the rest of the MCU later.

[stealinghome]

I think Thor 2 edges Iron Man 2 for me, but only because I like Thor much, much more than I like Tony. That script was a mess. Although, Thor 2 probably is ahead of Iron Man 3 on my list, too, come to think of it--I appreciated what IM3 was trying to do, and that it was trying to be a very different kind of movie, but its magical realism elements just didn't quite gel with the superhero elements (and I couldn't get over the damselling of the women). IM3 isn't bad in the way that IM2 is bad, but I thought it was kind of boring. Just not compelling.

 

I have to confess I'm a little nervous for Avengers 2, because aside from Winter Soldier--which might be the single best of all the MCU movies--the Phase 2 movies have been pretty weak. (I am, I confess, preemptively counting Guardians in here, perhaps unfairly, but I'm not optimistic about that movie.)

Edited July 6, 2014 by stealinghome

[Sweet Tee]

I personally loved IM3. It's my favorite of the IM movies. I think the Thor movies are overall the weakest of the bunch. They work due to Hemsworth and Hiddleston, but everything else about them is just so average. Winter Soldier was wonderful. Heads and shoulders above the first CA.

[Crs97]

I love IM3 as well. The first one is still my favorite, but 3 is a close second. Two is a very distant third.

[Advance35]

Eh.  I didn't HATE IM3, I just wasn't thrilled by it.   I think I might be a bit over Pepper Potts in that the Mr. and Mrs. Bickerson thing she and Tony have going isn't really doing it for me anymore.    I liked that it evolved Tony Stark even further and openned new avenues for the character to explore now that he had the heart surgery, as it were.   But I think my favorite thing about IM3 was the blu-ray which included the Peggy Carter Short Film.

 

I just think it's Sif the character that doesn't interest me.  She's from Asgard, she holds a high position there and she's got a Warrior Queen thing going.   I even found her underwhelming during her turn on AoS, which can be a sea of Underwhelming characters.   Though for me I think what hurts the Thor films is the over-saturation of Loki.    I know he's a hit and I know the showrunners want to run with what works but maybe they should have pulled back on him a bit ( I'm a OUAT fan and maybe this is what the Anti-Regina fans feel like, though I love her), It just felt like THOR and LOKI instead of THOR if that makes any sense.

 

 I'm waiting to see what Avengers 2 does with Ultron.   They've got Thanos simmering in the background and Loki (though he should be on vacation as go-to-villain) but I really like what Captain America 2 did with Hydra.   Zola was turned into one of the most sinister characters in any of the movies and it also added pathos to Sheild, Anthony Stark and Peggy (both in present and in the past).   I'd like to see them expand Hydra even further, Baron Strucker is a good start and maybe at some point Viper can make an appearance.

 

And with regards to the Hawkeye Necklace Natasha wore in CA:WS,  I had heard about it and I am a fan of the pairing so I wouldn't mind if they go there.   I think both characters (at least these versions) really fit.

[Kel Varnsen]

I love IM3 as well. The first one is still my favorite, but 3 is a close second. Two is a very distant third.

I liked Iron Man 3 also. I liked that for a big chunk of the movie Tony was pretty much on his own and had to use his brains to figure shit out rather than just using his suit to blow shit up (I mean he is one of the smartest guys in the MCU). So then when he did use the suits to blow things up it was a much better pay off.  Plus that final battle on that oil rig thing with all the suits looked really awesome. 

 

Plus the best part of it was no Mickey Rourke. I mean seriously, who really thought casting that guy was a good idea?

[Danny Franks]

 

Plus the best part of it was no Mickey Rourke. I mean seriously, who really thought casting that guy was a good idea?

 

In retrospect, I think most people at Marvel seem aware that casting Rourke was a bad idea. The guy is no better an actor now than he ever was, and he's even more pretentious and precious than ever. I've seen the behind the scenes stuff, about him insisting on picking out every tattoo for his character, and all the stuff afterwards of him whining that his part was cut down. As if anyone wanted more of him in the movie.

 

They should have stuck with Sam Rockwell's Justin Hammer as the main bad guy, and made him less of a boob.

 

For the third one, I hated the Extremis stuff. The previous two movies felt like they could happen, to me. Crazy robot suits and all that? Farfetched but possible. Magical fire generating men who can survive almost anything? Too fantastical. And yes, I know this is the same universe as Thor and The Avengers, but I still felt the Extremis stuff was a poor fit for the Iron Man franchise. And the little kid. Generally, I have no time at all for little kids in movies. This one was no different, even with Tony being a bit of an ass to him. Piss off, little kid. Plus, Rebecca Hall was utterly wasted in an inconsequential role that had no real sense of anything other than, 'pretty, intelligent lady who turns out to be bad, but not as bad as the bad guy'. 

 

I'm glad that Marvel are moving into TV in a big way (though Agents of SHIELD sucks), and I think that's an area where they could more easily explore some of the most interesting characters they've created in this cinematic franchise. Peggy Carter, obviously, but also Falcon, the Winter Soldier, Sif, the Warriors Three, even War Machine. Some big budget mini-series featuring those characters could work really well. Then they could keep the big screen for the biggest names.

[Joe]

 

Plus the best part of it was no Mickey Rourke. I mean seriously, who really thought casting that guy was a good idea?

He would have been better with less of an accent. He couldn't go regular fake Russian, oh no. He had to go completely indecipherable.

[vb68]

 

Plus the best part of it was no Mickey Rourke. I mean seriously, who really thought casting that guy was a good idea?

 

Rourke was coming off an Oscar nomination at the time and was experiencing something of a mini-career revival.  I remember RDJ  being really excited about the casting, and I might be completely off about this, but I did get the impression that he personally pushed for it.

[JayKay]

Well, if anyone can enthusiastically root for a comeback, it's RDJ.

Magical fire generating men who can survive almost anything? Too fantastical. And yes, I know this is the same universe as Thor and The Avengers, but I still felt the Extremis stuff was a poor fit for the Iron Man franchise. And the little kid. Generally, I have no time at all for little kids in movies. This one was no different, even with Tony being a bit of an ass to him. Piss off, little kid. Plus, Rebecca Hall was utterly wasted in an inconsequential role that had no real sense of anything other than, 'pretty, intelligent lady who turns out to be bad, but not as bad as the bad guy'.

This, alll of this. Which Leave It To Beaver geezer woke up from his grave and told the writers that kids can't live vicariously through adult superheroes and instead would rather imagine that they're some random little kid who the superhero (begrudgingly) befriends? And I was so disappointed with the material for Rebecca Hall. Was her character strictly envisioned to be kindling on Tony Stark's big enlightenment bonfire?

 

I was also miffed that the promos made it seem as though Pepper would become Rescue from the comics, but it was a huge misdirect. I'd watched an interview with RDJ before I finally saw IM3 and he was going on about how badass and awesome Pepper was in the film. I mean, really? I still feel like the script for Iron Man 3 must have been erroneously photocopied into a pile of children's Christmas film screenplays and Syfy Saturday Night movie drafts.

[VCRTracking]

I liked Iron Man Three a LOT better than the second Iron Man. There was some good parts to Iron Man 2 like the suitcase suit and Black Widow but there was too much of what I didn't like about the first Iron Man and not enough of what I did.

 

 

I'd watched an interview with RDJ before I finally saw IM3 and he was going on about how badass and awesome Pepper was in the film. I mean, really?

 

She was awesome. 

[JayKay]

She was awesome. 

Agreed, for most of the four minutes and thirty-six seconds* she was in the film. Maybe the Rescue mislead is strongly coloring my opinion because it's such a missed opportunity and I had my hopes up. There just wasn't enough screentime of Pepper being allowed to be awesome in IM3 to live up to the hype, imo. But I agree on your assessment of IM2. Now that I think about it, I guess I feel like the Iron Man films have gotten worse with each installment.

 

*approximate length, does not resemble any scientific measurements of time

[Wilowy]

I like Pepper. I like that in the first two films, Tony couldn't function without her and in the third he didn't WANT to. I like her love for him. I like that she knows her fucking job so well, SO much better than anyone else. I love, LOVE how she gets shit done. 

 

How, and for what reason, does anyone not?

[Kel Varnsen]

I'm glad that Marvel are moving into TV in a big way (though Agents of SHIELD sucks), and I think that's an area where they could more easily explore some of the most interesting characters they've created in this cinematic franchise. Peggy Carter, obviously, but also Falcon, the Winter Soldier, Sif, the Warriors Three, even War Machine. Some big budget mini-series featuring those characters could work really well. Then they could keep the big screen for the biggest names.

I like that they are moving into TV too, although I am not sure how well they expect the Peggy Carter series to do. I mean it seems like it would be a harder sell to a nework TV audience than Agents of SHIELD (mostly just because it is set in the past so it is not running concurrent with the MCU, meaning you won't be getting Sam Jackson showing up or Tony Stark's name dropped, plus the whole historical aspect might turn people off). I like that they are doing the netflix shows, since presumably they wouldn't need to gain as big an audience to be successful. And mini-series would be awesome. I would also love to see them expand the Marvel One-Shot series, maybe even make them theatrical shorts. I mean throw a marvel short in front of another Disney release and it would probably get a nice box office boost. 

[VCRTracking]

First look at Ultron on the cover of the new Entertainment Weekly:

 

 

Link to the EW.com article which contains some plot spoilers:

 

http://popwatch.ew.com/2014/07/16/this-weeks-cover-avengers-age-of-ultron/

Edited July 16, 2014 by VCRTracking

[scarynikki12]

Going back to Black Widow and whether or not she'll ever get her own movie, I think that Marvel will only do it if they're backed into a corner with no way out.  Black Widow is a female character and that's the only reason she hasn't been given her own movie at this point.  She was very well received in The Avengers, to the point that I think her movie would already be set to film/finished filming had the character been male.  But, she's female, and Marvel's going to throw out every excuse they can think of before being forced to actually make the movie.  Look at the ones we've already thought of: ScarJo's pregnancy, the studio waiting to see how Lucy does next month (I hope it makes oodles of money because it looks awesome and I want Marvel backed into that corner), the myth that women aren't part of the target audience for comic movies, the myth that men aren't interested in female superheroes, and, yes, even the money angle that the cracked.com article mentioned.  If Marvel hadn't made any Hulk movies before The Avengers was released, leaving him to be a reference in the Iron Man, Captain America, and/or Thor movies, then I think they'd have jumped at the chance to capitalize on the positive reception that Mark Ruffalo received.  Instead, they talk a good game about giving Black Widow her own movie (and I like Hawkeye but I agree that she deserves to stand on her own feet so I'd give him a cameo at best) yet seem to be taking every excuse they can think of to keep it from happening.  I wish Marvel would be the anti-DC here.  DC's been dragging its feet on a Wonder Woman movie for even longer, and think that throwing a bone to her fans by putting her in as a supporting character in the Superman sequel is enough.  It isn't.  Just like it isn't enough to have Black Widow as a supporting player in the Avengers movies, not matter how awesome they make her (and they've done such a great job with the character already so there shouldn't be any creative concerns).  This character deserves her own movie and it's a glaring hole in the otherwise well done Marvel landscape.  I just hope that they get backed into that corner and soon.

[Kel Varnsen]

  But, she's female, and Marvel's going to throw out every excuse they can think of before being forced to actually make the movie.  Look at the ones we've already thought of: ScarJo's pregnancy, the studio waiting to see how Lucy does next month (I hope it makes oodles of money because it looks awesome and I want Marvel backed into that corner)

Personally I think that Lucy movie looks terrible with a totally stupid premise. Plus one big thing to consider, has Scarlet Johnannson ever actually mentioned that she wants to make a Black Widow movie?  It seems a lot of these original marvel stars seem like they are already growing tired of playing these characters, I wonder if she is one of them?

[Athena]

Personally I think that Lucy movie looks terrible with a totally stupid premise. Plus one big thing to consider, has Scarlet Johnannson ever actually mentioned that she wants to make a Black Widow movie?  It seems a lot of these original marvel stars seem like they are already growing tired of playing these characters, I wonder if she is one of them?

 

I found this interview:

 

 

Q: There’s been a lot of buzz and talk about a possible Black Widow film. Would you like to see that happen at some point down the line – maybe before “Avengers 3”?

 

   You know, there’s always the possibility in this kind of Marvel madness that, you know, anything could happen, and a lot of these spin-offs are really like fan-driven, you know, kind of audience-driven, which is great because if the audience wants it, then you know that it’s built in in a way and people are excited to see it. Not feeding them they’re not into. So if the audience wants something like that and we could really, you know, carve out a great story for her that’s a continuation of what we already know, then I’d be totally for it. I mean, she’s definitely got –the material is there, you know, and I’m, you know, I’m always willing to slip the suit back on and power through it, you know, if people want to see it.

 

You know, it sounds like she wants it, if you know what I mean.

 

Personally, I don't think she can really carry a movie. I don't mind her when she's playing supporting roles or in an ensemble, but not too sure I'd want to see her as a solo lead a movie. Maybe if they paired her up with Renner's character.

[Kel Varnsen]

You know, it sounds like she wants it, if you know what I mean.

I would call her response as about as non-committal as possible. Like if there is a massive demand for it, and there is a great script, and she is available (because let's not forget she is a very in demand actress) and they make her the right offer (the old dump truck full of money she might consider doing it. But she is not going to be beating on Whedon's door or showing up at Kevin Feige's house in costume to try and get this movie made.

[Athena]

I would call her response as about as non-committal as possible. Like if there is a massive demand for it, and there is a great script, and she is available (because let's not forget she is a very in demand actress) and they make her the right offer (the old dump truck full of money she might consider doing it. But she is not going to be beating on Whedon's door or showing up at Kevin Feige's house in costume to try and get this movie made.

 

I agree with you that she's not beating people's door about it, but maybe her management team are. I think she's open to the idea of it because she would get a pay upgrade if she starred in a franchise film. Yes, she is in demand and she is also about to start a family, but being a central lead in a franchise movie would not hurt. It could bomb, but I think she'd recover even if it did.

[Danny Franks]

I would call her response as about as non-committal as possible. Like if there is a massive demand for it, and there is a great script, and she is available (because let's not forget she is a very in demand actress) and they make her the right offer (the old dump truck full of money she might consider doing it. But she is not going to be beating on Whedon's door or showing up at Kevin Feige's house in costume to try and get this movie made.

 

I'm pretty sure I've read a different interview in the past, where she seemed far more into the idea. So maybe she's cooled on it, or maybe she's just being diplomatic. But really, I think it would be something she would want to do because, as we've said, there aren't that many women in Hollywood getting to headline big action movies. ScarJo is one of the biggest stars there is right now, and I think it would be a great bit of prestige for her to have a Marvel movie built around her, and sold on the basis of the appeal of her and this female character.

 

But, given the few examples there are of women in leading action roles (Tomb Raider, Salt, Columbiana), I can understand why she would want to see a script first. That movie would need to be good.

 

Oh and again, fuck Renner's character. I'm not interested in a Hawkeye movie with him as the star, or with him as a co-lead. He's done nothing to earn that, in my view, either through his performances or through his off-screen contributions to the franchise (whining that your part wasn't good enough won't do the trick). I'd rather see a new Hulk movie first, or even the Doctor Strange one. Hell, I'd rather see a Stilt-Man movie.

[Athena]

 

Oh and again, fuck Renner's character. I'm not interested in a Hawkeye movie with him as the star, or with him as a co-lead. He's done nothing to earn that, in my view, either through his performances or through his off-screen contributions to the franchise (whining that your part wasn't good enough won't do the trick). I'd rather see a new Hulk movie first, or even the Doctor Strange one. Hell, I'd rather see a Stilt-Man movie.

 

You're right. I'll take it back because I was grasping at straws about who she could co-lead with. I don't care about Renner or Hawkeye that much; I avoided his Bourne movie. I'd actually be willing to watch a new Hulk if they kept Ruffalo and found the writer script and director.

[VCRTracking]

I just saw Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol again on TV recently and I like him a lot in that movie, how he plays off Cruise and Simon Pegg. Hawkeye is not a great character on his own in the comics but he really is vital as part of the Avengers and I want to see that reflected in the new movie. 

[AstaCharles]

 

I just saw Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol again on TV recently and I like him a lot in that movie, how he plays off Cruise and Simon Pegg. Hawkeye is not a great character on his own in the comics but he really is vital as part of the Avengers and I want to see that reflected in the new movie.

I agree and I also saw the movie too over the weekend and I really liked him in it. Liked him in the Bourne movie as well.

[Athena]

I agree and I also saw the movie too over the weekend and I really liked him in it. Liked him in the Bourne movie as well.

 

Hmm, now I am tempted as I really liked the Damon Bourne movies. I didn't mind Renner in The Town, but I didn't care for him as Hawkeye so I'm mixed on him so far.

[AstaCharles]

Well I don't want to twist your arm ;)  I haven't seen the films Renner was nominated in, but there are some scenes in his Bourne film that impressed me enough to check out his earlier films.

[Kel Varnsen]

Oh and again, fuck Renner's character. I'm not interested in a Hawkeye movie with him as the star, or with him as a co-lead. He's done nothing to earn that, in my view, either through his performances or through his off-screen contributions to the franchise (whining that your part wasn't good enough won't do the trick). I'd rather see a new Hulk movie first, or even the Doctor Strange one. Hell, I'd rather see a Stilt-Man movie.

I would be ok with a Hawkeye movie if he was like the character from the comics, the witty smartass underdog type. But I guess that they made Tony Stark the witty smartass of the MCU so you can't really have Hawkeye be that character too.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Been a Renner fan since the film Dahmer and his guest appearance on Angel prior to that.

[Fukui San]

I would be ok with a Hawkeye movie if he was like the character from the comics, the witty smartass underdog type. But I guess that they made Tony Stark the witty smartass of the MCU so you can't really have Hawkeye be that character too.

Unfortunately for Movie Hawkeye, they used more of the Ultimates version of Hawkeye, who is a totally boring killbot, rather than the charming rogue in the mainstream Marvel Universe.

[anyanka323]

It's been interesting reading some of the  recent online chatter about Sony and Spiderman baddies spinoffs.  Apparently, Roberto Orci who was involved as either a director and/or creative consultant left due to him directing Star Trek 3.  There's some speculation that with the disappointing box office for Amazing Spiderman 2, that these proposed spinoffs may be postponed or scaled back.  This has bought back the talk that Sony could either sell back the rights to Spiderman to Marvel/Disney or that any delay in developing future projects would automatically send them back to Marvel.  I wouldn't mind seeing Spiderman as an Avenger but in the Avengers 2.0 crew. 

 

Fox's Fantastic Four reboot seems like a waste of talent both behind and in front of the camera.  It's clear that the only reason Fox is pushing ahead is so they can keep the rights to Fantastic Four.  The FF and Doctor Doom both feature prominently in the various Avengers storylines.  Doom would be a good choice for a antagonist after Thanos.  I think a more real world based Doom based upon someone like Putin or one of the other dictators from a former Soviet republic would fit in with the MCU. 

 

I don't think Marvel will ever get the rights to X-Men back.  I'm of two minds about the separation.  It's going to be intersting not being able to use the term mutant to describe the Scarlett Witch and Quicksilver or not to have a direct reference to Magneto as their punative father.  On the other hand, this separtion means that Marvel can't used the over exposed character (both film and comics) of Wolverine.  I like Jackman's portrayal of the character, but am getting annoyed with Wolverine being the main character in the X-Men films. 

[VCRTracking]

 

Unfortunately for Movie Hawkeye, they used more of the Ultimates version of Hawkeye, who is a totally boring killbot, rather than the charming rogue in the mainstream Marvel Universe.

 

I think there's still a way to make him like the mainstream Hawkeye.  MCU takes a lot from the Ultimate comics but not everything. Steve/Captain America is a far more progressive guy in the movies than the Ultimates version.

[stealinghome]

I also doubt that several of Johansson's co-workers would have gone on the record as saying a Black Widow film would be awesome if she herself was reluctant to do it. But I know Hemsworth has said that a Black Widow movie should be made, and I think Ruffalo said something similar as well (though him I'm less sure about).

 

I'm pretty sure I've read a different interview in the past, where she seemed far more into the idea. So maybe she's cooled on it, or maybe she's just being diplomatic.

Same here. I'm pretty sure I read an interview with her where she was like "yeah, that would be great!"

[Kel Varnsen]

Unfortunately for Movie Hawkeye, they used more of the Ultimates version of Hawkeye, who is a totally boring killbot, rather than the charming rogue in the mainstream Marvel Universe.

That's disappointing, one more retroactive reason to hate The Ultimates.

 

It's been interesting reading some of the  recent online chatter about Sony and Spiderman baddies spinoffs.  Apparently, Roberto Orci who was involved as either a director and/or creative consultant left due to him directing Star Trek 3.  There's some speculation that with the disappointing box office for Amazing Spiderman 2, that these proposed spinoffs may be postponed or scaled back.  This has bought back the talk that Sony could either sell back the rights to Spiderman to Marvel/Disney or that any delay in developing future projects would automatically send them back to Marvel.  I wouldn't mind seeing Spiderman as an Avenger but in the Avengers 2.0 crew. 

 

Fox's Fantastic Four reboot seems like a waste of talent both behind and in front of the camera.  It's clear that the only reason Fox is pushing ahead is so they can keep the rights to Fantastic Four.  The FF and Doctor Doom both feature prominently in the various Avengers storylines.  Doom would be a good choice for a antagonist after Thanos.  I think a more real world based Doom based upon someone like Putin or one of the other dictators from a former Soviet republic would fit in with the MCU. 

 

I don't think Marvel will ever get the rights to X-Men back.  I'm of two minds about the separation.  It's going to be intersting not being able to use the term mutant to describe the Scarlett Witch and Quicksilver or not to have a direct reference to Magneto as their punative father.  On the other hand, this separtion means that Marvel can't used the over exposed character (both film and comics) of Wolverine.  I like Jackman's portrayal of the character, but am getting annoyed with Wolverine being the main character in the X-Men films. 

I am not sure I see Sony every giving or selling the rights to Spiderman to Disney. I mean even the most poor performing movies make a crapload of money. And all it takes is one awesome script and the movies are back on top. Plus if spiderman was part of the MCU, you would have to do another origin story. I do wonder if Sony and Disney would ever consider some kind of co-production agreement where Sony produces a spiderman movie (with Disney's approval) and he gets integrated into the MCU and they share the profits?

 

As far as the X-men goes, I am totally ok with them staying with Fox. The first X-men movie was a pretty big risk and basically a proof of concept that super heroes that weren't household names like Superman and Batman could be a successful movie. It basically changed the movie business.  I am totally ok with Fox still reaping the rewards of taking that risk. Plus is there a more perfect professor X and Magneto than Stewart and Mckellen? I am not sure I would want to see those characters being recast. Plus like others have said I would be worried that it would become all Wolverine all the time in the MCU if they had that character. 

 

Actually for both Wolverine and Spiderman, if Disney had the rights to those characters, and they were sticking with their two movies a year policy I worry we wouldn't see the kind of movies they are releasing now. I mean the characters are just too valuable not to put out movies. And if there are only two a year can you take a risk and make a Guardians movie or an Ant-Man movie, when a Spiderman movie is a guaranteed blockbuster?

[vb68]

 

Plus if spiderman was part of the MCU, you would have to do another origin story.

 

I actually have my doubts about that.  They didn't redo the origin with the Edward Norton Hulk movie.  In fact, I could easily see Spiderman being used in a supporting  role like the Hulk was in the first Avengers.   I think that would be the best way to slide him over in the MCU (i.e. very carefully).

Edited July 17, 2014 by vb68

[Kel Varnsen]

I actually have my doubts about that.  They didn't redo the origin with the Edward Norton Hulk movie.  In fact, I could easily see Spiderman being used a supporting  role like the Hulk was in the first Avengers.   I think that would be the best way to slide him over in the MCU (i.e. very carefully).

It is a tough one to me. One of the big reasons I suggested you would have to do an origin story is if/when Spider-man shows up in the MCU you kind of have to make it a case where he just recently received his powers. Otherwise where was he during the Battle of New York? And if he just received his powers he is probably going to be a teenager. And I am not sure I want to see a teenager (or an actor in his 20's who slightly resembles a teenager) facing off even verbally with cap (a living legend and WWII veteran) or Tony Stark. It would just seem weird.

[vb68]

The MCU set it's upcoming schedule of movie dates  through 2019.  I think they had already announced one for May 2017 as well, so looks there will be three films that year.  I hope they give us some titles next weekend at Comic Con.

Edited July 20, 2014 by vb68

[ZoqFotPik]

I'm not sure if they have regained the rights and I realize that he was in Cap 2 as Brock Rumlow/Crossbones, but, having just watched "The Purge Anarchy", I think Frank Grillo would make an excellent Punisher. 

[Joe]

I'm not sure if they have regained the rights and I realize that he was in Cap 2 as Brock Rumlow/Crossbones, but, having just watched "The Purge Anarchy", I think Frank Grillo would make an excellent Punisher. 

IO9 said exactly that.

[benteen]

Unfortunately for Movie Hawkeye, they used more of the Ultimates version of Hawkeye, who is a totally boring killbot, rather than the charming rogue in the mainstream Marvel Universe.

 

 

Wasn't Comic Hawkeye also the guy who back in the day got upset at his wife for letting her rapist die?  The little I've read of Comic Book Hawkeye back in the day is that he was a hypocritical asshole.

 

As for Renner, I think he's a great actor but as of right now, I have no interest in a Hawkeye movie.

 

As long as Avi Arad controls the future of Spider-Man, that character has no future.  People are burned out by the Spider-Man character and the only way to restore some interest in the character on-screen would be a team-up with the Avengers.  But considering that Sony owns him and Arad is deluded about the character (and doesn't believe in the idea of a shared universe, thankfully something Marvel disagreed with him with back in the day), it's not going to get better for the character.  Sony needs to realize they can't have a shared universe when Spider-Man is the only character in that shared universe.

 

X-Men works as a shared universe for two reasons.  One, there are so many mutants you can have a shared universe.  And two, the anti-mutant prejudice actually makes sense when they're the only show in town.

 

I'm glad Marvel didn't own Spider-Man and X-Men at the time The Avengers were made.  Because Spider-Man and Wolverine would have been the stars of that film.  Despite the best efforts of Marvel Comics, Spider-Man and Wolverine are NOT Avengers.  Not having them around forced Marvel to establish their other characters, especially Iron Man, and their properties are stronger because of it.

Edited July 20, 2014 by benteen

[VCRTracking]

All the buzz on Guardians of the Galaxy is very positive. Like it's fun the way the old Star Wars movies were and the prequels weren't. Also that Groot is awesome. I can't wait to see it!

Edited July 20, 2014 by VCRTracking

[JayKay]

Graaah I'm so mad. I really hope that the prospects for a Black Widow movie aren't dependent on Lucy's box office performance, because my local theater is only showing one airing a day at 8:00pm after it's released. Really? Freaking. Mid-west.

 

I hope that Guardians of the Galaxy does well, because everyone I've spoken with thinks it looks stupid and I really love Chris Pratt. I don't have anybody who is willing to go see it with me. Whenever I suggest it, people avert their eyes and pay close attention to nutrition information or spots on the ceiling.

[Danny Franks]

Wasn't Comic Hawkeye also the guy who back in the day got upset at his wife for letting her rapist die?  The little I've read of Comic Book Hawkeye back in the day is that he was a hypocritical asshole.

 

I think pretty much all comic book characters end up being hypocritical assholes, at some point. Because they're written by different people, with staggeringly different personal values and outlooks, and comic book character developments tend to be rather... hyper-real anyway. Hawkeye getting pissed at Mockingbird for that would probably have been in West Coast Avengers, back in the 80s. So I could see that version of Hawkeye either being a hang over from the 60s and 70s, 'women should be condescended to and kept from anything approaching real value' or being an 80s 'badass assholes are super cool!'

 

I quite liked Hawkeye when he returned to life after House of M, but even then, he ended up looking really bad when he slept with amnesiac Scarlet Witch, who he'd actually sought out to kill, because she killed him and then brought him back to life and then killed him again, while she was all crazy and "No more mutants" (see? hyper-real). Then he was sleeping with about three different women at once, because three different writers had the character in their books, and clearly didn't bother communicating with one another.

 

But Ultimate Hawkeye definitely was as dull as shit (even duller when Jeph Loeb turned him into an emo angst-boy with a death wish). I can absolutely see where Millar's version of the character is the inspiration for Renner's dull as shit performance. Of course, Ultimate Hawkeye killed Ultimate Black Widow so....

[Fukui San]

The movie series drew from the mainstream Marvel continuity and the "Ultimate" Marvel continuity at will. On my scorecard:

 

Movie Cap is mostly Ultimate Cap.

Movie Thor is mostly Mainstream Thor. Ultimate Thor was a hippie possibly delusional fraud. Loki is also Mainstream Loki.

Movie Iron Man is a little more Mainstream than Ultimate Iron Man. The two versions are close, but Mainstream Tony has more vulnerability, I think.

Movie Nick Fury is 100% Ultimate Nick Fury

Movie Hawkeye is mostly Ultimate Hawkeye. Mainstream Hawkeye can be a jerk in many ways, but he's also fun and one of the guys. In his solo series he's portrayed as a total loser fuckup when he's not in costume. Ultimate and Movie Hawkeye is just a perfect soldier.

Movie Black Widow is kind of her own thing to suit ScarJo.  So they picked and chose what aspects to take from each universe, but ScarJo's persona is the dominant aspect that fits neither version. So that's why she's a young American rather than a grizzled former Soviet agent.

Movie Hulk is more mainstream Hulk. They took pains to make Ultimate Bruce Banner unlikeable.

[Zuleikha]

I just hope that they get backed into that corner and soon.

 

One thing that gives me hope is that every review of The Winter Soldier I saw called for a Black Widow solo movie. Now I didn't read that many, but I'm not exaggerating. It's why I went to see it (and I wasn't disappointed, except that I did want more Black Widow than I got... the reviews also said she was more of a co-lead than a supporting and I thought she was solidly supporting). The ending of it was a perfect set up for a solo Black Widow movie, so it was frustrating to know that there won't be that follow up.

 

It is also frustrating to see movie execs drawing their feet because they basically need a time traveler from the future to come and tell them that a Black Widow movie will be successful before they'll make one. Resident Evil, Tomb Raider, Salt, and the Hunger Games all prove a female-led action flick can do perfectly fine. Black Widow has a strong fanbase. Write a decent script; use a decent director, and the movie will do well. Catwoman, Elektra, and Supergirl flopped because they were bad movies! They deserved to flop. (well, to be fair to Elektra, I don't know that was bad... but it was a spin off the poorly received Daredevil movie, so it had a lot to overcome... I don't know why of all things, that one got greenlit when Whedon couldn't get Wonder Woman greenlit even at the height of his Buffy cred).

[Jeebus Cripes]

The movie series drew from the mainstream Marvel continuity and the "Ultimate" Marvel continuity at will. On my scorecard:

 

Movie Cap is mostly Ultimate Cap.

 

 Out of curiosity, what makes Ultimate Cap different from Mainstream Cap? I've never been much into comic Cap at all, so I really don't know.

[Danny Franks]

I can't agree that Movie Cap is mostly Ultimate Cap. In backstory he is, but in attitude and personality? I remember Ultimate Cap as a complete dick, and not at all the boy scout that Chris Evans' Steve Rogers is. Just another of Mark Millar's sad attempts to be 'gritty' and 'controversial'.

 

The closest I can think of to Movie Cap is Brubaker's Cap. A competent, committed soldier and patriot, but still a genuinely good guy with human frailties. And if anyone was ever going to read a Captain America story, I'd recommend they began with issue #1 of Brubaker's run. That this issue begins the slow-burn into the Winter Soldier storyline helps too.

[Advance35]

I'm not to fluent in the times and history of Hawkeye so I have nothing to compare him to, but I actually like what Renner has brought to the role so far.   Very little screen time but he has a coldness that I would associate with someone who spends a majority of his life in the espionage arena.    And I like the "in the trenches" vibe he had with Black Widow.

 

I think AoU will really tell the tale about how wise a casting choice he was.

 

But I have seen other's mention "Charming" and "Witty" in association with Clint Barton, are we talking Tony Stark level of charming or a different kind entirely?

[Kel Varnsen]

I think pretty much all comic book characters end up being hypocritical assholes, at some point. Because they're written by different people, with staggeringly different personal values and outlooks, and comic book character developments tend to be rather... hyper-real anyway. Hawkeye getting pissed at Mockingbird for that would probably have been in West Coast Avengers, back in the 80s. So I could see that version of Hawkeye either being a hang over from the 60s and 70s, 'women should be condescended to and kept from anything approaching real value' or being an 80s 'badass assholes are super cool!'

 

It was the Lost in Space-Time Storyline from the late 80's I read most of the WCA run about a decade ago. Other than the whole Hawkeye being pissed thing it was a great story. I think a lot of storylines back in those days at least in the avengers seemed to be about heroes who would follow the rules and be totally by the book vs those who would bend or break the rules as needed. Operation Galactic Storm which came out only about 5 years later dealt with the same issue, on a much more dramatic scale.

 

But I have seen other's mention "Charming" and "Witty" in association with Clint Barton, are we talking Tony Stark level of charming or a different kind entirely?

 

Hawkeye in the comics started as a kind of goofy villain. So I think a lot of the charming and wittyness comes from that. From what I remember it was a lot like movie Tony Stark. Comics Hawkeye (at least back in the day) also dealt with a fair amount of self-doubt especially about how could a dude who was just a really good archer, could stand shoulder to shoulder with someone like Thor or Iron Man. At at least a couple of times over his career he switches from being Hawkeye to being Goliath (basically a giant) using Hank Pym's pym particles. 

Edited July 21, 2014 by Kel Varnsen

[jellysalmon]

I can't agree that Movie Cap is mostly Ultimate Cap. In backstory he is, but in attitude and personality? I remember Ultimate Cap as a complete dick, and not at all the boy scout that Chris Evans' Steve Rogers is. Just another of Mark Millar's sad attempts to be 'gritty' and 'controversial'.

 

I agree that Movie Cap isn't Ultimate Cap, but I don't think it's sad or 'gritty' or 'controversial.' Ultimate Cap comes off as a dick, but he just has 1940s sensibilities. He's a macho man, treats women in a "they need to be protected" way and is weirded out by the more-liberal country the US has become.