The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[ICantDoThatDave]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Why is it when someone complains about an MCU character being “boring/bland” they’re usually talking about one of the female characters? Don’t seem to recall much complaining about any male characters being boring (except if they’re villains).

Hawkeye, I'd like you to meet Spartan Girl.  Spartan Girl, this is Hawkeye.

[Spartan Girl]

45 minutes ago, ICantDoThatDave said:

Hawkeye, I'd like you to meet Spartan Girl.  Spartan Girl, this is Hawkeye.

Touché. But even he got better writing than Sharon did.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[Kel Varnsen]

14 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Why is it when someone complains about an MCU character being “boring/bland” they’re usually talking about one of the female characters? Don’t seem to recall much complaining about any male characters being boring (except if they’re villains).

I find Sharon boring. But like I said a big part of it is that her character type is way over used in Marvel movies. Is there a male character type that gets used as much? I don't even think we have seen as many super soldiers (at least ones with names) as we have seen non-powered female spies who are good at fighting.

[ICantDoThatDave]

I'm starting to feel like I'm some sort of dirty version of the Farmers Only match app at this point (kinda redundant, I know), but...

Kel Varnsen, I'd like to introduce you to Sam Wilson, goes by Falcon sometimes, or Captain America might work in your search if you limit it to the last few months.  If you're not interested in him, I could recommend Agent Coulson, but his exact location in the multiverse is tough to pin down.

Everett Ross is available, but he may or may not be chasing after the One Ring.  Also, if you're feeling ambitious, Nick Fury might be your type, but he's... hard to reach at the moment, depending on how strong your cell reception is.

EDIT: I believe you might also find a Match in the Agents of Shield show &/or the Peggy Carter show.  We do aim to please!

Edited August 9, 2021 by ICantDoThatDave

[Zuleikha]

Kel Varnsen, I'd like to introduce you to Sam Wilson, goes by Falcon sometimes, or Captain America might work in your search if you limit it to the last few months.

I don't understand how this list shows a male character type that is as overused as the non-powered ass-kicking female spy.

Of the characters you listed, Sam Wilson is a superhero with a unique set of powers (at least until he became Captain America, but there's a character journey there). Agent Coulson is the original non-powered shield agent. Nick Fury is the mastermind and lead.

What's supposed to be the common character type?

[cambridgeguy]

4 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

What's supposed to be the common character type?

Don't forget immature man-child who needs to grow up.  Thor, Tony, Dr. Strange, Quill. Scott Lang. 

[Spartan Girl]

47 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Don't forget immature man-child who needs to grow up.  Thor, Tony, Dr. Strange, Quill. Scott Lang. 

Exactly. Tons of tropes get overused for male characters all the time. And nobody ever complained about the helpful and/or annoying male agents like Couldon, Woo, or Everett Ross getting old. But having only two or three female spy characters in the Avengers feels a bit much? 

[cambridgeguy]

I mean, if you're going to complain about overused female tropes then hyper-competent woman who's exasperated by the immature/naive/incompetent men around her is the way to go. 

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

But having only two or three female spy characters in the Avengers feels a bit much? 

It's more like 7 or 8 (Peggy, Black Widow, Maria Hill, Sharon, Melinda May, Bobbi Morse, Nakia and now Yelena). It's like for awhile at least they didn't want to make female characters (who weren't romantic partners) super heroes so they just made them all spies. Rachel Weisz's character is almost something different since she is an attractive middle aged lady spy who can kick ass without powers.

[Bruinsfan]

Melina at least appears to have no sense of humor and doesn't quip, which also separates her from the pack.

[tv echo]

FYI: Both Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings and Eternals will be getting exclusive theatrical releases on Sep. 3 and Nov. 5, respectively.

• The Shang-Chi release news was previously announced by Disney in May.
• However, the Eternals release news was more discreetly revealed recently in an Eternals TV commercial during the Summer Olympics (commercial ends with "Only in theaters November 5").

Also, as far as I know, Spider-Man: No Way Home will be an exclusive theatrical release on Dec. 17 (because it's partly controlled by Sony).

Edited August 9, 2021 by tv echo

[Spartan Girl]

Okay moving on to the upcoming What If…?show, people are PISSED that they changed Sam/Captain America’s Twitter heading to Captain Carter. I can’t say I blame them. That A/U version of Peggy isn’t even Captain America, she’s Captain Carter. Yeah yeah, I know it’s just Twitter but the overhyping of a white woman taking the shield when it isn’t even the regular MCU timeline does kind of feel like an insult to Sam, who maybe only got a couple months of being hyped as New Cap.

 

[kiddo82]

50 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Okay moving on to the upcoming What If…?show, people are PISSED that they changed Sam/Captain America’s Twitter heading to Captain Carter. I can’t say I blame them. That A/U version of Peggy isn’t even Captain America, she’s Captain Carter. Yeah yeah, I know it’s just Twitter but the overhyping of a white woman taking the shield when it isn’t even the regular MCU timeline does kind of feel like an insult to Sam, who maybe only got a couple months of being hyped as New Cap.

 

I've said before that I have reservations about the multi verse.  I like the idea of What If...? as a conversation starter or a fun diversion, but I can easily see how making all this canon could make a big mess.  I hope to be proven wrong though.

[Spartan Girl]

It’s just really hard for me to get excited about Captain Carter knowing the dirty tactics Hayley Atwell used to get back into the MCU.

[Morrigan2575]

31 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

It’s just really hard for me to get excited about Captain Carter knowing the dirty tactics Hayley Atwell used to get back into the MCU.

Hmm? I hadn't heard anything. What did she do?

[Kel Varnsen]

23 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Hmm? I hadn't heard anything. What did she do?

That's what I am wondering. Are we talking black mail, threats of violence, a horse head in Kevin Feige's bed?

[Raja]

I do remember ABC cancelling Agent Carter supposedly to get Hayley Atwell for a conventional series, Conviction, was the first major hit on the TV side of "Its All Connected" MCU.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Hmm? I hadn't heard anything. What did she do?

Well, she publicly and loudly complained about Sharon being the new woman in Steve’s life coincidentally after Agent Carter was cancelled, stoking the fandom backlash and may or may not have influenced the Stucky stans to start trolling Emily VanCamp on social media. She even said flat-out that Sharon shouldn’t even have a part in the MCU. 

I’m not saying that influenced Feige and the writers cutting Sharon/Emily from the MCU and later bringing her back only to be a villain. But it does feel like Hayley largely benefitted from the outcome: first with the Steggy Endgame and now getting to be Captain Carter. 🤔 

[Kel Varnsen]

Ok that's not so bad. All the scandals that come out of Hollywood must have desensitized me since I was expecting something much worse.

[kiddo82]

I say all this with the caveat that I am not a lawyer or a finance person and I trust that the advisors for the Walt Disney corporation are smarter than I am on such things, but I'm interested to know what their rationale is for not doing a hybrid release for Shang-Chi in light of the Scarlett Johansson lawsuit.  Doing a day and date model for Shang-Chi is the closet thing to an apples to apples comparison to the Black Widow release that they will get.  If Disney felt confident that they had the upper hand in the argument I see no downside to doubling down on that.  I feel like that makes a statement that they fully believe that they did not breach Scarlett Johansson's contract and that she and everyone else can go kick rocks.  Plus, it's more money directly into their pockets.  On the other hand, it seems at least to me, that releasing Shang-Chi exclusively in theaters at this time undermines their force majeure argument when covid case numbers are objectively worse now than they were in July and should continue to be so for the foreseeable future.  It also seems especially hypocritical given their "callous disregard" comments directed towards Ms. Johansson.

Edited August 10, 2021 by kiddo82

[FnkyChkn34]

On 8/7/2021 at 10:35 AM, tv echo said:

7/10  Wilson Bethel (Benjamin Poindexter/Bullseye) Came Close To Being Steve Rogers
6/10  Karen Gillan Almost Nabbed The Role Of Sharon Carter
5/10  The Role Of Nebula Almost Went To Lupita Nyong'o

I love Wilson Bethel (though I've never seen Daredevil), but I just can't see that.  I suppose he could have really worked out to bulk up, but Chris Evans' already had the size (and America's ass).  

Karen Gillan is great as Nebula, but Lupita Nyong'o would have also been excellent, I think.  That's the only one on the list where maybe I would have liked to have seen it.

[FnkyChkn34]

On 8/8/2021 at 12:56 PM, ICantDoThatDave said:

Hawkeye, I'd like you to meet Spartan Girl.  Spartan Girl, this is Hawkeye.

My complaint is that they never gave Hawkeye a chance.  He has a cameo in Thor I guess, but then as soon as they introduce him in a more major role, they make him possessed by evil.  Without a solo movie of his own (the only one of the original six now without one, right?) it's hard to give him much depth.  But they also never even really featured him ensemble movies like they did Natasha.  So how WERE we supposed to get to know him and like him?  Twenty minutes of him with his family on the farm in Ultron still featured the other characters just as much as him.

I really hope his own show helps with all of that and he becomes a "beloved" character, but I guess time will tell...

[Cobalt Stargazer]

55 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

  Without a solo movie of his own (the only one of the original six now without one, right?)

Yes. Even Banner has had his own movie, at least if you consider the Edward Norton iteration part of the canon. I'm one of the people who likes Hawkeye and Renner's version of Hawkeye, but he's been woefully underserved by the movies. I would even argue that it's telling that Loki, the one who mindjacks Barton in The Avengers, becomes the fan favorite rather than the actual good guy. Because apparently even an asshole is fine as long as they give him enough focus to show why he's an asshole.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Cobalt Stargazer

[FnkyChkn34]

1 minute ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Yes. Even Banner has had his own movie, at least if you consider the Edward Norton iteration part of the canon. I'm one of the people who likes Hawkeye and Renner's version of Hawkeye, but he's been woefully underserved by the movies. I would even argue that it's telling that Loki, the one who mindjacks Barton in The Avengers, becomes the fan favorite rather than the actual good guy. Because apparently even an asshole is fine as long as they give him enough focus to show why he's an asshole. :-P

Yes, I am with you as one of the few!  I like both Hawkeye and Jeremy Renner (for some reason I really can't figure out).  

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

My complaint is that they never gave Hawkeye a chance.  He has a cameo in Thor I guess, but then as soon as they introduce him in a more major role, they make him possessed by evil.  Without a solo movie of his own (the only one of the original six now without one, right?) it's hard to give him much depth.  But they also never even really featured him ensemble movies like they did Natasha.  So how WERE we supposed to get to know him and like him?  Twenty minutes of him with his family on the farm in Ultron still featured the other characters just as much as him.

 

2 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Yes. Even Banner has had his own movie, at least if you consider the Edward Norton iteration part of the canon. I'm one of the people who likes Hawkeye and Renner's version of Hawkeye, but he's been woefully underserved by the movies. I would even argue that it's telling that Loki, the one who mindjacks Barton in The Avengers, becomes the fan favorite rather than the actual good guy. Because apparently even an asshole is fine as long as they give him enough focus to show why he's an asshole.

I agree, and this ties back to my point about Sharon because the writers and the audiences never gave her a chance either, and unlike Hawkeye, she had only maybe four minutes of screen time in TWS and CW combined. The Russos forwent any character development by turning CW into another ensemble movie.

And by the time Feige and the MCU deigned to reinsert her in TFATWS they just decided to make her a villain, and not even a well-developed one at that. Similar to @Cobalt Stargazer said, it’s really telling that Zemo, the murderer who broke up the Avengers instantly became the fan favorite while Sharon was relegated to shock heel turn villain after being the MCU pariah for one stupid kiss.

[ICantDoThatDave]

6 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

My complaint is that they never gave Hawkeye a chance.

You're not wrong, but the people forget how shaky the MCU was at the beginning.  When people lament the lack of Black Widow or Hawkeye solo movies, they forget that even the first Cap movie was one of the lowest grossing MCU movies ever (I think it actually was the lowest until Black Widow).

Iron Man was a surprising hit at the time it came out.  Iron Man 2 was not really well received but made a decent amount of money.  Thor 1 & 2 did well, but didn't exactly break the bank.  I'm glad they are finally giving the "lesser" Avengers their own spotlight, but doing so earlier would have been extremely risky & could have jeopardized the whole Universe (that sounded more ominous than I intended).

Early on the MCU was essentially in the precarious position it kinda is now, where no one knows whether they can sustain their success.  I'm not sure Phase 4 is gonna succeed (I don't mean they'll crash & burn, just that they'll probably start doing mediocre box office #'s), & if way back when they had announced a Hawkeye movie instead of, say Iron Man 3 (which I didn't particularly like but was a box office win) or Winter Soldier, the whole MCU could have gone off the rails.  Think Solo or Justice League, for example, which doomed a lot of planned projects.

I guess my point is, I'm glad they took the path they took, even if it means we are only now getting Black Widow & Hawkeye focused movies/shows.

[ICantDoThatDave]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

 

I agree, and this ties back to my point about Sharon because the writers and the audiences never gave her a chance either...

And by the time Feige and the MCU deigned to reinsert her in TFATWS they just decided to make her a villain, and not even a well-developed one at that. Similar to @Cobalt Stargazer said, it’s really telling that Zemo, the murderer who broke up the Avengers instantly became the fan favorite while Sharon was relegated to shock heel turn villain after being the MCU pariah for one stupid kiss.

This is not that surprising, really, IMO.  Putting aside the writing (I'll get to that in a moment), we only have to look at the WWE for a parallel (which is a surprisingly good analogy to super hero movies).  When a Hero makes a heel turn, they are more universally reviled than the "standard" villains.  The audience feels betrayed, particularly when the character turns on their other beloved "heroes".

Conversely, when a villain makes a Face turn & goes through redemption, it's much easier to get the audience on their side.  See the Loki Disney+ show: he didn't actually go through the years/events "real" Loki did.  He just watched a video.  Literally a few days ago he had murdered Phil Coulson & killed hundreds (thousands?) or New York citizens in a bid to take over the Earth.

But audiences accepted him as a reformed baddie, full of remorse & sympathy nonetheless.  Because that's how we're wired, I suppose.  It's easier to go from a Bad Guy to a Good Guy, or at least a not-Bad Guy, while a Hero who falls from grace is reviled.

That said, the writing for Sharon's heel turn was godawful & made almost no sense.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 minutes ago, ICantDoThatDave said:

Conversely, when a villain makes a Face turn & goes through redemption, it's much easier to get the audience on their side.  See the Loki Disney+ show: he didn't actually go through the years/events "real" Loki did.  He just watched a video.  Literally a few days ago he had murdered Phil Coulson & killed hundreds (thousands?) or New York citizens in a bid to take over the Earth.

Except even before that, there were those who happily made excuses for him. "Odin was a bad father!" "Thor looked down on him!" "All Loki wants is to be loved!" As I said, no one seemed to care or even mind that much that he did all that stuff, and even the retcon (because that's what it is, and I don't care) that he was influenced by one of the Infinity Stones or by Thanos or by the TVA is little more than another excuse that's supposed to wash away his crimes. I was told when WandaVision ended that we're not supposed to care about the Why when one of the characters does something awful, that there should always be consequences or punishment and that Monica Rambeau was wrong to be empathetic in saying she would bring her mother back to life if she had possession of Wanda's abilities, that the citizens of Westview were the real wronged parties and that Wanda should have made some effort to make amends. Maybe she's not charming enough. Maybe she just washes her hair too often, because I can't think of a single reason anyone would consider Loki's issues legitimate but not Wanda's.

[kiddo82]

Loki is the worst.  All his active attempts at mass murder get hand waived away because "he's sad."  Eff that.  I have confidence that Wanda will get redeemed, but you just know she is going to get put through the RINGER (wringer?  I was too lazy to look it up) in order to earn it.  And even then some won't buy it.

Edited August 12, 2021 by kiddo82

[AimingforYoko]

The Marvels has begun filming.

[ICantDoThatDave]

2 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Maybe she just washes her hair too often...

This is probably it!  Just kidding, but I found that especially funny. :)

[Kel Varnsen]

11 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I love Wilson Bethel (though I've never seen Daredevil), but I just can't see that.  I suppose he could have really worked out to bulk up, but Chris Evans' already had the size (and America's ass).  

Karen Gillan is great as Nebula, but Lupita Nyong'o would have also been excellent, I think.  That's the only one on the list where maybe I would have liked to have seen it.

Lupita Nyong'o could have probably been pretty great as Nebula. But I often think of how badass a move it was that Karen Gillan shaved her head for the first Guardians movie. Especially since she is a young actress with pretty great hair.

As for all the actors who tried for Cap, my understanding is that pretty much every age appropriate actor in Hollywood was trying for that part.

8 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I agree, and this ties back to my point about Sharon because the writers and the audiences never gave her a chance either, and unlike Hawkeye, she had only maybe four minutes of screen time in TWS and CW combined. The Russos forwent any character development by turning CW into another ensemble movie.

As for Sharon Carter how are audiences supposed to give a character a chance? You can only really evaluate them based on what is on screen and whether you like it or not. And I really think you probably could have replaced Sharon with Maria Hill in both WS and CW and you probably could have kept 90% of the script. Plus personally I think Maria Hill is a better character and I generally like Cobie Smulders way more.

[Spartan Girl]

7 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

As for Sharon Carter how are audiences supposed to give a character a chance? You can only really evaluate them based on what is on screen and whether you like it or not. And I really think you probably could have replaced Sharon with Maria Hill in both WS and CW and you probably could have kept 90% of the script

Sharon was supposed to be the female lead in TWS, but the Russos decided ScarJo was the bigger name and put Natasha in instead. But I feel like since Natasha and Sharon were good friends in the comics it was more than possible to have both of them have equal leading roles.

Hell, it would have made way more sense for Sharon to reveal herself as Peggy’s niece in that movie and have her and Steve get to know each other more on the run.

[JustHereForFood]

13 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Except even before that, there were those who happily made excuses for him. "Odin was a bad father!" "Thor looked down on him!" "All Loki wants is to be loved!" As I said, no one seemed to care or even mind that much that he did all that stuff, and even the retcon (because that's what it is, and I don't care) that he was influenced by one of the Infinity Stones or by Thanos or by the TVA is little more than another excuse that's supposed to wash away his crimes. I was told when WandaVision ended that we're not supposed to care about the Why when one of the characters does something awful, that there should always be consequences or punishment and that Monica Rambeau was wrong to be empathetic in saying she would bring her mother back to life if she had possession of Wanda's abilities, that the citizens of Westview were the real wronged parties and that Wanda should have made some effort to make amends. Maybe she's not charming enough. Maybe she just washes her hair too often, because I can't think of a single reason anyone would consider Loki's issues legitimate but not Wanda's.

Yeah, I agree about Loki. I like the character, but the way his actions have been excused by some fans are extreme. But this is not unheard of when it comes to attractive* male characters and I think that Loki has practically won all of the points that are usually used to gain sympathy for this type of character. He's attractive, he's played by a charismatic actor that is nice to fans and is generally considered to be cool. He's got a backstory that can be considered tragic if you squint, complete with father issues and an inferiority complex. but of course he loves his mother and we also see that despite his issues, he cares about his father and brother as well. Plus, his villainous actions are usually accompanied by some bigger bad and he occasionally does something to help the heroes, which always counts for more if a villain does it, as we all know. The only thing missing is being in love with a female character that is the epitome of goodness, otherwise he would have the full package of Draco in Leather Pants:  https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DracoInLeatherPants

*attractiveness is of course subjective, but he fits one of the types that is usually considered attractive

[tv echo]

Disney+ Unveils New MCU Timeline Order, Including WandaVision's Spot After Marvel's What If
By Russ Wilheim   August 11, 2021
https://thedirect.com/article/mcu-timeline-watch-order-wandavision-marvel-what-if 

Quote

Disney+ has updated its timeline for all the MCU films and shows to include What If...?, where the show can be seen placed between WandaVision and Loki.
*  *  *
Marvel Studios' What If...? is likely placed right after Loki because of the destruction of the Sacred Timeline, which creates the multiverse that the new animated Disney+ takes advantage of.

 

[Zuleikha]

Audiences like characters who are fun and interesting. Loki is fun and interesting and a major character in the Thor world. He's only really evil in the first Avengers as well. He does bad things in other movies, but more in line with his amoral trickster characterization... they're bad things for self-interest (or in the first Thor, a mix of self-interest/genuine concern for the safety of Asgard). We also don't see people suffer really as a result of Loki's actions. He threatens Frost Giants and kills randoms in a general cartoon violence type of way. The only time we see Loki really delight in cruelty is in one scene in the first Avengers, and Loki gets pounded to pulp by the Hulk and then imprisoned as a result. 

I like Scarlet Witch in WandaVision, but I think the writers made bizarre choices there. Movies and TV are visual mediums... what we see is what we tend to focus on. So if the shows focus a lot on characters suffering as a result of the hero's actions, we're going to view the hero more negatively than if a show doesn't focus on that. WandaVision focused on the bewitched town suffering a lot--possibly more than it actually focused on Wanda's suffering. I don't think it was necessary to make Wanda's spell so cruel. But given that the writers both made that choice and focused on that choice, I don't think it's meaningful that audiences also focus on that and want to see Wanda pay some price for redemption.

I, personally, think Wanda's issues are way more legitimate than Loki's, though. I don't really get Loki's issues. He was a younger prince, so I don't know where he got the idea that he was owed the throne of Asgard. He also seemed to be genuinely loved. Whereas life really screwed over poor Wanda at every turn. I would have rewritten reality into a sitcom, too, if I were her and had no idea what price other people were paying.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Zuleikha

[tv echo]

Also talked about Disney's strategy for releasing upcoming new movies...

Disney Chief Bob Chapek Defends Hybrid ‘Black Widow’ Release Amid Scarlett Johansson Lawsuit
BY PAMELA MCCLINTOCK    AUGUST 12, 2021
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/disney-defends-hybrid-release-scarlett-johansson-1234996920/ 

Quote

The next two releases from Disney’s film studio are receiving an exclusive theatrical release for 45 days: Free Guy, which opens Friday, and Marvel’s Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (Sept. 3).

Chapek said the studio is sticking to its plan for those two films, despite a dramatic resurgence of COVID-19 cases that are largely due to the Delta variant. Three months ago, he said, no one knew that the pandemic would grow worse again.

He’s hardly the only worried Hollywood executive as the box office recovery stalls. Earlier Thursday, Sony delayed the release of Venom: Let There Be Carnage from September to October (Venom might not be the last early fall event pic to move).

In general, he said the company values “flexibility” during uncertain times, and that making decisions on a film-by-film basis is the correct course.

“Both Bob Iger and I determined this was the right strategy. And, just to reiterate, distribution decisions are made on a film-by-film basis. We will continue to utilize all options going forward.”

Chapek added that a 45-day exclusive theatrical window for Free Guy — starring Ryan Reynolds — and Shang-Chi will be an interesting experiment. Disney inherited Free Guy when taking over 20th Century Fox. (Chapek said the company didn’t have the same freedom in terms of changing its release pattern.)

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I believe that someone here posted similar comments above...

Shang-Chi's Theater-Only Release Is Hypocritical After Disney's ScarJo Response
BY MATT MORRISON    AUGUST 13, 2021
https://screenrant.com/shang-chi-theaters-only-release-scarlett-johansson-disney/ 

Quote

Disney's decision to only release Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings in movie theaters seems astonishingly hypocritical following the company's comments on Scarlett Johansson's recent lawsuit. The company's announcement that the latest Marvel Cinematic Universe movie would not see a simultaneous release on the Disney+ streaming service has also drawn fire for being short-sighted in the wake of spiking COVID-19 infection rates.

... Disney responded with an official statement that dismissed Johansson's claims as having "no merit whatsoever" and "sad and distressing in its callous disregard for the horrific and prolonged global effects of the COVID-19 pandemic," painting the actress as greedy and unconcerned with the safety of the public.

These words have come back to haunt Disney in the wake of an announcement by Disney CEO Bob Chapek that Shang-Chi and the Legends of the Ten Rings would only be released in theaters on September 3. The latest MCU Phase 4 film is being released in a limited 45-day window, at which point it could be made available through streaming and on-demand. Chapek defended the decision, describing it as "an interesting experiment" before claiming that it would not be possible to release Shang-Chi on Disney+ at the same time it opened in theaters because of "the practically of last minute changes."

Chapek's comments seem ill-considered at a time when new variants of the COVID-19 virus are spreading rapidly and other upcoming 2021 movies (such as Venom: Let There Be Carnage) are pushing back their theatrical releases amidst public health concerns. These comments also seem hypocritical given the seemingly glib concern for the public health that the company expressed several weeks earlier when Scarlett Johansson filed her lawsuit. While a calculated effort to avoid paying Johansson what she was owed cannot be proven with what information is publicly known, it's still a bad look for Disney to suddenly stop using the simultaneous release model that had already been employed for their other summer blockbusters with big-name stars.

It's possible that Disney is acting in good faith and that there are behind-the-scenes factors that make it impossible to release Shang-Chi in the same manner as Black Widow. Nevertheless, the company's recent actions seem insensitive in the wake of current events, even without the undercurrent of hypocrisy and sexism within the company's response to Scarlett Johansson's lawsuit. This adds an unfortunate aura to Shang-Chi and the Legends of the Ten Rings which may color how people view the film, however and whenever they finally see it.

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

I’m continuing to catch up on the MCU Disney+ shows.  I finished Falcon and the Winter Soldier last night.    

I’m finding myself unable to really be objective about the show right now, due to real life issues.  Many of the show’s themes juxtaposed with the real-life images coming out of Kabul right now…. I suppose perhaps the show just hit too close to RL issues that feel particularly raw right now.  That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but…well.  Perhaps just not good timing on my part.  

A few random thoughts:

• I really can’t stand Zemo.  I don’t know what it is about the guy, but he just comes across as insufferably smug and sleezy. 
• Sharon.  It’s interesting watching the show already knowing that she’s the Power Broker.  Is she a Skrull? I’m not quite sure, now.  I don’t really know what a Skrull would get out of the Power Broker position, and yet, I still don’t find her turn completely believable.  The other thing is - the way she was holding that cloth to her bullet wound at the end kept making me think maybe she didn’t want anyone seeing exactly what was under there.  Like…maybe not-human skin?
• Bucky - Don’t kill me, Bucky and/or Arrow fans, but I was getting a whole lot of Oliver Queen vibes from his performance.  Even to the voices sounding similar (at least to me).  That’s not a criticism!  I actually found myself more interested in Bucky after this series than I was after three Captain America movies.  Can we get an Ayo/Bucky team-up series, please?  Please please? 
• Sam!  It will be interesting to see where they take the character from here.  I like his Captain America with wings outfit at the end.  It’s a good way to use his already existing skill set and get around the no-superpowers thing.  I also enjoyed his partnership with Bucky - Anthony Mackie and Sebastian Stan have good chemistry - and I wish they’d spent more time on that than they did.  It actually felt like they put most of the best moments in the trailers.  🙄 I also appreciated his relationship with his sister, and that they didn’t forget that he used to be a counselor for war veterans.  And of course how he tried so hard to save Karli throughout.
• Walker - Ugh.
• Countess Valentina Allegra de Fontaine “Don’t call me Val” - LOL.  I love her.  A+ casting.  

On to Loki! Eventually.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Starfish35

[AimingforYoko]

Anthony Mackie closes deal to star in 4th Captain America film.

You can bet his reps went over that contract verrrry carefully.

[Morrigan2575]

Does that mean no Second Season of Falcon and TWS? 

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Anthony Mackie closes deal to star in 4th Captain America film.

You can bet his reps went over that contract verrrry carefully.

I would hope they would do that anyways. I mean it is not like the Black Widow movie is the first movie to have on demand pay per view rentals.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Does that mean no Second Season of Falcon and TWS? 

According to an Entertainment Weekly article back in April, a new season has not been announced yet, but Feige said some of the shows are being prepared for more episodes.

[Anduin]

A Celestial. Damn. I have to wonder what other nutty concepts Feige has in his back pocket. The MCU just keeps getting bigger and crazier. So my 2025 prediction, we're getting Hickman's Secret Wars as a pair of movies, and a bunch of TV series exploring the various zones and characters within.

Oh, hah! As I checked up on this, I discovered word of a possible Jim Shooter flavour Secret Wars movie. I suppose it isn't entirely out of the question, but I'm not actually expecting it. :)

[xaxat]

Hiring Chloe Zhang to direct Eternals must have seemed like a no brainer at the time and they probably had high hopes for Shang Chi as well.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, xaxat said:

Hiring Chloe Zhang to direct Eternals must have seemed like a no brainer at the time and they probably had high hopes for Shang Chi as well.

It’s not just Disney. The last US movie to open in China was Peter Rabbit 2. Space Jam 2 and Suicide Squad also haven’t been approved yet. Luca is the only Hollywood movie that even has a Chinese release date scheduled. 

A big part of that is that July was the 100th anniversary of the Chinese Communist Party and they didn’t allow anything that wasn’t propaganda. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Guest

[AimingforYoko]

Riri Williams to appear in Black Panther: Wakanda Forever ahead of her Disney+ show Ironheart.

Wakandan outreach recipient?

[tv echo]

The Big Avengers Questions Kevin Feige Says The Upcoming Marvel Movies Will Address
SEAN O'CONNELL    AUG. 20. 2021
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2572267/the-big-avengers-questions-kevin-feige-says-the-upcoming-marvel-movies-will-address 

Quote

CinemaBlend got time with Kevin Feige for the upcoming standalone film Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings. And we got around to questioning him about the status of the Avengers team, from its current make up to whether it exists at all. And Feige told us:

"That is a great question. And I think you will see that question addressed, and people struggling with that very question, within the MCU right now. I think post-Endgame and with Tony being off the board and Steve Rogers being off the board -- Sam Wilson is a new Cap, of course. But what does it mean to be an Avenger? And is there a core team? And who's leading it, and who's financing it? That is very much an undercurrent that will, while not at the forefront of many of the current movies, is certainly a question that is lingering in the background."

When Will ‘Avengers 5’ Happen? Kevin Feige Says You Need Time “Before You Start Bringing Everyone Together”
BY MATT GOLDBERG   AUGUST 19, 2021
https://collider.com/avengers-5-when-kevin-feige-interview/ 

Quote

The MCU is much bigger now than it was back in 2012, and so the notion that you can bring “everyone” together is a tall order, and likely will take more than four years if you’re just looking at all the groundwork being laid in Phase 4. It’s possible that The Avengers 5 will happen around 2025 (four years after Phase 4 began with Black Widow), but during a conversation for the upcoming Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings Collider's Steve Weintraub asked Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige about when the next team-up might be, and he sounded far more circumspect about the prospect:

“I think we want there to be a reasonable amount of time from the Endgame to start a new saga, which is already underway and already started,” said Feige. “And then you need time, as you did in Phase 1, to build that saga before you start bringing everyone together.”

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by tv echo

[tv echo]

MCU Phase 4, Secret Wars, Deadpool 3, Fantastic Four Updates (Exclusive Interview)
Comicbook.com    Aug 20, 2021

Per Kevin Feige (in this interview):

• Spider-Man: No Way Home is still coming out on Dec. 17. Feige said that he can only "guarantee" that there will be a trailer released before the movie comes out.
• The script for Deadpool 3 is currently being worked on by the writers and Ryan Reynolds.
• In response to Fantastic 4 casting question and how Marvel casts its movies, Feige said that the, MCU is a "beautiful combination" of new actors and old actors. They just search for the best actors for the roles, regardless if they're known or unknown actors.
• Regarding the Secret Wars rumors, Feige wondered why everyone was talking about it now. 
• Regarding James Gunn pitching a DC/Marvel crossover (like Harley Quinn-Groot story), Feige repeated his standard answer: "Never says never." 
• James Gunn is currently working on prep for Guardians of the Galaxy 3, which will begin filming before the end of this year. 

Edited August 21, 2021 by tv echo

[Anduin]

13 minutes ago, tv echo said:

MCU Phase 4, Secret Wars, Deadpool 3, Fantastic Four Updates (Exclusive Interview)
Comicbook.com    Aug 20, 2021

• Regarding the Secret Wars rumors, Feige wondered why everyone was talking about it now. 

 

Hah! It was just an idle joke until I found a little hint of substance to back it up. And outside of me, I haven't found a single other mention.