The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[starri]

13 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

And Ultimates Hawkeye ended up being so hilariously angst-ridden and tortured that you'd think he was written by a thirteen year old emo kid.

I mean, I've heard worse descriptions of Mark Millar...

[Kel Varnsen]

37 minutes ago, starri said:

I mean, I've heard worse descriptions of Mark Millar...

I remember reading the first couple of issues of the Ultimates, all I remember is that Nick Fury was Sam Jackson, Tony Stark dating Shannon Elizabeth and how it was a massive rip off of The Authority. And Mark Millar's run on The Authority was no where near as good as the Warren Ellis original. So it doesn't surprise me that Ultimates Hawkeye was super boring.

[Danny Franks]

2 hours ago, starri said:

I mean, I've heard worse descriptions of Mark Millar...

While I certainly wouldn't dispute that, it was Jeph Loeb who wrote the really tortured, angsty Hawkeye stuff in Ultimates 3 (he's also the one who made the Pietro/Wanda incest text, I think). But Millar set it up with his storyline about Natasha betraying Clint and having his family murdered. There was some absurd nonsense about him escaping from her group of Russian terrorists by ripping out his fingernails and using them as projectiles....

Ultimates was fucking garbage.

In other garbage news, Letitia Wright seems to be doing her best to get kicked off Black Panther 2. Sharing an anti-vaxx being shared "to start a conversation" about the Covid vaccine. Never mind that the video in question was made by someone who has transphobic and homophobic content on their channel.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/letitia-wright-embroiled-in-anti-vax-controversy-on-twitter

Edited December 4, 2020 by Danny Franks

[Bruinsfan]

I'll give Millar credit, at the beginning it looked like he was going really interesting places with that version of Thor as a peacenik cult leader who controlled the weather. Subsequent developments kept making the character worse, though.

I still wonder what the hell was going through Whedon's mind for his insistence on Hawkeye somehow being a government secret agent/sniper AND a stereotypical suburban/country dad from a Betty Crocker cake mix commercial. Apparently those farmhouse scenes were what he fought tooth and nail to keep when the Disney brass wanted them cut.

[cambridgeguy]

39 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

In other garbage news, Letitia Wright seems to be doing her best to get kicked off Black Panther 2. Sharing an anti-vaxx being shared "to start a conversation" about the Covid vaccine. Never mind that the video in question was made by someone who has transphobic and homophobic content on their channel.

I'd like to think an alarm goes off on every Disney PR person's phone whenever one of their actors fires off a tweet.  But there's no way she gets kicked off the film because of this.  If she wants out SHE needs to start posting transphobic and homophobic content, not just sharing someone else who has it.  Chris Pratt attended a church that's highly anti-LGBTQ and I don't think Starlord's going to be killed off screen anytime soon.

[Morrigan2575]

I like MCU Hawkeye, I like Jeremy Renner as Hawkeye. I look forward to the series, which I thought was canceled. Happy to see it's happening.

I only read 1 Hawkeye book and that was written by Jeff Lemire, I followed him over after his turn on Green Arrow.

[AimingforYoko]

Yelena Belova (Florence Pugh) and others to appear in Hawkeye.

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, AimingforYoko said:

Yelena Belova (Florence Pugh) and others to appear in Hawkeye.

I was hoping that Yelena would appear in Falcon and Winter Soldier, but there seems to be no indication of that happening. I'm eager to see Florence Pugh as a spy of indeterminate loyalties.

[AimingforYoko]

18 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

I was hoping that Yelena would appear in Falcon and Winter Soldier, but there seems to be no indication of that happening. I'm eager to see Florence Pugh as a spy of indeterminate loyalties.

Considering the bond Nat had with Clint, it makes sense for Yelena to appear on the show.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

I was hoping that Yelena would appear in Falcon and Winter Soldier, but there seems to be no indication of that happening. I'm eager to see Florence Pugh as a spy of indeterminate loyalties.

There is a rumor that she’s in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I wouldn’t call is a credible rumor but it is floating around as a possibility. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 12/4/2020 at 11:42 AM, Danny Franks said:

In other garbage news, Letitia Wright seems to be doing her best to get kicked off Black Panther 2. Sharing an anti-vaxx being shared "to start a conversation" about the Covid vaccine. Never mind that the video in question was made by someone who has transphobic and homophobic content on their channel.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/letitia-wright-embroiled-in-anti-vax-controversy-on-twitter

 

I was just coming in here to talk about this since I saw it on Screenrant, which is also garbage. I'm not inclined to say that Wright had bad intentions or that she believes vaccines are harmful, though posting the video was definitely a mistake. We have to remember that social media is why Elizabeth Olsen got a big honkin' dump taken on her when she didn't post about Chadwick Boseman's passing in August, and she deleted her Instagram account over it.

[swanpride]

Not all Marvel Actors are left leaning. Since Marvel doesn't care about Chris Pratt's weird church or the fact that Gwynneth Paltrow sells harmful BS to her customer, I doubt that they would worry too much about one shared tweet as long as it isn't related to paedophilia.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I was just coming in here to talk about this since I saw it on Screenrant, which is also garbage. I'm not inclined to say that Wright had bad intentions or that she believes vaccines are harmful, though posting the video was definitely a mistake. We have to remember that social media is why Elizabeth Olsen got a big honkin' dump taken on her when she didn't post about Chadwick Boseman's passing in August, and she deleted her Instagram account over it.

The video was really bad. If she actually watched it before she posted it she is an anti-vaxxer, transphobic and an complete idiot. The other possibility is that she posted a video without watching it and then doubled down when challenged. 

On 12/4/2020 at 8:42 AM, Danny Franks said:

Sharing an anti-vaxx being shared "to start a conversation" about the Covid vaccine. Never mind that the video in question was made by someone who has transphobic and homophobic content on their channel.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/letitia-wright-embroiled-in-anti-vax-controversy-on-twitter

The video she posted was also transphobic. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

59 minutes ago, Dani said:

The video was really bad. If she actually watched it before she posted it she is an anti-vaxxer, transphobic and an complete idiot. The other possibility is that she posted a video without watching it and then doubled down when challenged. 

The video she posted was also transphobic. 

So we condemn the black girl for being a transphobic anti-vaxxer, but not the white guy for belonging to a cultish church? I like Chris Pratt just fine, but Hillsong's the weirdest thing I've heard of this side of Scientology. And it's already been mentioned here, so.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

So we condemn the black girl for being a transphobic anti-vaxxer, but not the white guy for belonging to a cultish church? I like Chris Pratt just fine, but Hillsong's the weirdest thing I've heard of this side of Scientology. And it's already been mentioned here, so.

She wouldn't be the first person cancelled since COVID came up over medical policies. As for Hillsong, the Australian based mega Assemblies of God (Elvis Presley's denomination) known mostly for their Praise team writing a few Contemporary Christian mega hit songs but, in effect middle of the road for American Pentecostal and Charismatic leaning Christians is over the cancel line as a culture we are rapidly moving towards nobody being left

[cambridgeguy]

9 hours ago, swanpride said:

Not all Marvel Actors are left leaning. Since Marvel doesn't care about Chris Pratt's weird church or the fact that Gwynneth Paltrow sells harmful BS to her customer, I doubt that they would worry too much about one shared tweet as long as it isn't related to paedophilia.

Besides, all they have to do is call her and give her a warning.

Say, did you enjoy working with Terence Howard and Edward Norton?  Wait, you're saying they weren't in Endgame?  That's right, so just remember that if we can recast Bruce Banner and James Rhodes then we can certainly do the same to Shuri, so rein it in.

[Raja]

15 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Besides, all they have to do is call her and give her a warning.

Say, did you enjoy working with Terence Howard and Edward Norton?  Wait, you're saying they weren't in Endgame?  That's right, so just remember that if we can recast Bruce Banner and James Rhodes then we can certainly do the same to Shuri, so rein it in.

The problem is Disney is not the decision maker in this case. Those who demand Ms Wright's cancellation are the ones who will determine if an apology is good enough. And if they think linking to this subject, watching more than the headline and/or not vetting the author is a big enough offense they still will threaten cancelling their Disney + subscriptions. How many and how loud they are is what matters here.

And as we have seen in this thread there is the counterforce who will be angry because they claim that since she is other than a White male, one of  whom was not cancelled more  notice is being taken. So Disney must get on that balance beam

[starri]

She's deleted her entire Twitter account.

[cambridgeguy]

13 minutes ago, Raja said:

So Disney must get on that balance beam

Disney probably hopes this will blow over in a week, as it likely will.  Back in March Evangeline Lilly basically said screw you to the quarantine, watched that blow up in her face, apologized (i.e. a publicist probably crafted a response), and now no one really cares.  Same with Chris Pratt (still a beloved Hollywood Chris even if he's not at the top) and his church stuff.  Although I think everyone would be spared a lot of trouble if they were ordered to delete their social media accounts the moment they sign a contract. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

So we condemn the black girl for being a transphobic anti-vaxxer, but not the white guy for belonging to a cultish church? I like Chris Pratt just fine, but Hillsong's the weirdest thing I've heard of this side of Scientology. And it's already been mentioned here, so.

I’m not condemning anyone. Pratt was also cancelled by Twitter over Hillsong. Which just shows how pointless the idea of cancelling someone is. 

I’d say that the video Wright posted equals or surpasses Hillsong in weirdness. She didn’t post an ok video from a questionable source. She posted a crazy ass video by what is clearly a religious nut. According to that video the vaccine is bad because it contains Luciferase (just because of the name) and she specifically doubled down on that in a separate tweet linking the name to the Bible. He also said that the people who get the vaccine will be injected with RFID chips and may grow extra limbs. He went on rants about how climate change is a lie and that trans people have been indoctrinated to deny their real gender. 

She put it out there and then defended it repeatedly. I’m not saying she should be fired but it certainly raises questions. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Guest

[Morrigan2575]

Does the UK have the same history with blacks and medical experiments that the US does? Cause I totally understand why African Americans don't want to take the vaccine.  I haven't watched the video and I think that whole cancel culture shit on twitter is stupid. 

I seriously doubt this does anything to her career or Marvel role. It's just twitter being awful, per usual.

[FnkyChkn34]

Chris Pratt was somehow deemed "Hollywood's Worst Chris" and while it's out of the spotlight now, it's probably still a thing.  So he didn't just get away with his crap.  But will it hurt his movies?  No, because people only do "cancel culture" from the safety of behind their keyboards - they still go see the movies or eat at the restaurants or buy the stuff. 

It's all pretty stupid, but then again... so is what these celebrities post.

Also, there's a Hawkeye specific thread:  https://forums.primetimer.com/forum/4512-hawkeye/  Much of this conversation could probably be taken over there; might be easier?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Does the UK have the same history with blacks and medical experiments that the US does? Cause I totally understand why African Americans don't want to take the vaccine.  I haven't watched the video and I think that whole cancel culture shit on twitter is stupid. 

I seriously doubt this does anything to her career or Marvel role. It's just twitter being awful, per usual.

I wonder where the line is between cancel culture and a legitimate backlash over real issues. Twitter is often awful and toxic but the people challenging her were raising legitimate issues and trying to educate her. 

I’m skeptical over the vaccine but that’s not what the video she posted was about. It was fear mongering, hate and conspiracy theories. 

24 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Also, there's a Hawkeye specific thread:  https://forums.primetimer.com/forum/4512-hawkeye/  Much of this conversation could probably be taken over there; might be easier?

Over there you have to more careful with potential spoilers from comics and other movies. 

[Danny Franks]

18 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

So we condemn the black girl for being a transphobic anti-vaxxer, but not the white guy for belonging to a cultish church? I like Chris Pratt just fine, but Hillsong's the weirdest thing I've heard of this side of Scientology. And it's already been mentioned here, so.

Most people who know about Pratt's church think he's an arsehole. Elliot Page called him out on the homophobic views of his church and was slated for it by a lot of his supporters.

However, as far as I'm aware, Pratt never posted anything on his social media that pushed the homophobic stuff.

2 hours ago, Dani said:

I wonder where the line is between cancel culture and a legitimate backlash over real issues. Twitter is often awful and toxic but the people challenging her were raising legitimate issues and trying to educate her. 

This is why I hate the term "cancel culture." It demeans the genuine concerns that people have over being persecuted and having that persecution enabled by prominent people on social media. Someone says something transphobic or homophobic or racist, people call them out for it on social media and the press runs with "cancel culture strikes again."

It's not cancel culture, it's a culture of not accepting bigotry even when it comes from a good looking celebrity. Where I think a line can be drawn (dependent on circumstances) is when people dig up old views that celebrities held and act as though they must still feel that way now, or that they deserve retroactive punishment. That's what happened with James Gunn.

In Letitia Wright's case, she posted this video in what appears to be a bad faith attempt to "start a conversation" that ends with "don't trust vaccines, trust Jesus". When people reacted badly, she doubled down and tweeted about people trying to cancel her. In Pratt's case, he only joined the church he's a member of a few years ago and talked about it positively on late night shows. When Page called him out, Pratt claimed his church "opens its doors to all," (whatever that means, because I'm pretty sure any church will open its doors to you as long as you agree to follow its rules).

Edited December 7, 2020 by Danny Franks

[Kel Varnsen]

21 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Say, did you enjoy working with Terence Howard and Edward Norton?  Wait, you're saying they weren't in Endgame?  That's right, so just remember that if we can recast Bruce Banner and James Rhodes then we can certainly do the same to Shuri, so rein it in.

Well neither of those guys got fired because of opinions they shared. Howard got fired since he tried to get more money out of Marvel and they decided he was replaceable. Norton got fired I think because he had some kind of creative control/script approval clause in his contract which made filming Incredible Hulk difficult. I can't imagine how difficult that would have made filming Avengers.

7 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Most people who know about Pratt's church think he's an arsehole. Elliot Page called him out on the homophobic views of his church and was slated for it by a lot of his supporters.

What actually is the deal with Pratt's church? I tried to do a bit of googling about them and all I could find were accusations of them being anti-LGBT. Which is obviously bad, but a lot of churches are anti-LGBT (including the Catholic Church). Not that it is anything close to excusing him, but I am wondering why he gets singled out for this. Or is there something more to it?

Edited December 7, 2020 by Kel Varnsen

[Athena]

Please go back to the topic of the movies. While some off-topic discussion is allowed, discussing current events outside the context of the movies and actual casting should be limited. Politics is always disallowed unless explicitly stated in the movies.

[JessePinkman]

I spoke it into existence.

The best Spider-Man film and the franchise's best villain? I couldn't be happier. Now announce Willen Dafoe!

[swanpride]

Eh...both is debatable.

[JessePinkman]

2 minutes ago, swanpride said:

Eh...both is debatable.

Let's fight.

[FnkyChkn34]

12 minutes ago, JessePinkman said:

The best Spider-Man film and the franchise's best villain? I couldn't be happier. Now announce Willen Dafoe!

How do we know that a film that hasn't been released yet is the best one? 😉 

[JessePinkman]

17 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

How do we know that a film that hasn't been released yet is the best one? 😉 

I was speaking of Spider-Man 2, didn't word it properly.

[AimingforYoko]

So spec: The shenanigans in WandaVision will lead to the Spider-Verse(Multiverse) in Spider-Man 3: Far From Reality and be wrapped up in Doctor Strange 2.

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, AimingforYoko said:

So spec: The shenanigans in WandaVision will lead to the Spider-Verse(Multiverse) in Spider-Man 3: Far From Reality and be wrapped up in Doctor Strange 2.

My spec is that the whole spider verse thing with the other spider men and villains will just be the mid or post credits scene in Spider Man 3 with Doc Strange showing Peter the other worlds as a teaser to his movie coming out.

[SeanC]

3 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

My spec is that the whole spider verse thing with the other spider men and villains will just be the mid or post credits scene in Spider Man 3 with Doc Strange showing Peter the other worlds as a teaser to his movie coming out.

I don't think so, because these castings have been circulating through the normal film reporting ecosystem.  If this was just going to be a throwaway thing at the end, they wouldn't want to raise expectations like that.

[Kel Varnsen]

24 minutes ago, SeanC said:

I don't think so, because these castings have been circulating through the normal film reporting ecosystem.  If this was just going to be a throwaway thing at the end, they wouldn't want to raise expectations like that.

I could see it. Those post credit scenes have always been a big deal for Marvel movies, and in this case it could basically serve as trailer for Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. Plus keep in mind that Doctor Strange is being directed by Sam Raimi, so maybe they let him direct that scene, since he already directed Spider-Man 2 and has connections to those characters and actors.

Plus it seems like a lot of movie to have Peter dealing with a bunch of Multiverse stuff and being outed by Jonah.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Kel Varnsen

[swanpride]

Quote

Let's fight

Well, McGuire is imho the worst actor between the three, and I never liked him in the role at all. And while Doc Oc is the best villain in the original trilogy (even though he is playing more a version of the Lizard, just with another gimmick), I think that both the Vulture and Mysterio were more interesting characters which thematically played way better into the journey of the character.

And the car scene between Toomes and Peter is the best Spider-Man/Villain interaction we ever got. There, I said it.

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, swanpride said:

Well, McGuire is imho the worst actor between the three, and I never liked him in the role at all.

Agreed.  Not a fan.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Starfish35

[JessePinkman]

7 hours ago, swanpride said:

Well, McGuire is imho the worst actor between the three, and I never liked him in the role at all. And while Doc Oc is the best villain in the original trilogy (even though he is playing more a version of the Lizard, just with another gimmick), I think that both the Vulture and Mysterio were more interesting characters which thematically played way better into the journey of the character.

And the car scene between Toomes and Peter is the best Spider-Man/Villain interaction we ever got. There, I said it.

I think Andrew is worse but I just don't like his capital "A" acting. I don't disagree with anything else you said. So lame duck fight imo!

[Danny Franks]

I'm not really looking forward to any of this multiverse stuff for Spider-Man. I don't need to see Maguire or Garfield's Spider-Men again, and I don't need to see the villains from those movies make a return. They've been done, they had complete arcs in those movies so why revisit them? It seems way too fan-servicey for my tastes.

Not only that, but the villains from those movies were shit, apart from Doctor Octopus (who still wasn't as good as the PS4 Spider-Man game version of him). I never want to see Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin or Jamie Foxx's Electro again.

Give me a live action Miles Morales, or even a Ben Reilly, and I might be interested. But rehashes of the previous movies just don't do it for me.

[Spartan Girl]

Please don't let them bring back Kirsten Dunst. I despised what she and Rami to Mary Jane.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Spartan Girl

[Fukui San]

"Bringing back Tobey, Kirsten, and Emma to the MCU is what fans have been dreaming of!"

Nah, I'm good with them where they were in the past. If you could find a way to bring the Into the Spider Verse cast into the MCU, though, that'd be great!

[benteen]

Latest news is Charlie Cox is going to return as Matt Murdock/Daredevil.  Daredevil was the best of the Marvel Netflix series and this is exciting news.  I always wanted to see a live action Daredevil and Spider-Man team-up.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, benteen said:

Latest news is Charlie Cox is going to return as Matt Murdock/Daredevil.  Daredevil was the best of the Marvel Netflix series and this is exciting news.  I always wanted to see a live action Daredevil and Spider-Man team-up.

That’s just a rumor for now. 

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

Latest news is Charlie Cox is going to return as Matt Murdock/Daredevil.  Daredevil was the best of the Marvel Netflix series and this is exciting news.  I always wanted to see a live action Daredevil and Spider-Man team-up.

Eh, I'd go with Punisher as the best but, I I did love Daredevil and would love to see Charlie Cox/Matt Murdock in the MCU (proper). I'd be ecstatic if I could get both Murdock and Castle

[AimingforYoko]

2 hours ago, benteen said:

Latest news is Charlie Cox is going to return as Matt Murdock/Daredevil.  Daredevil was the best of the Marvel Netflix series and this is exciting news.  I always wanted to see a live action Daredevil and Spider-Man team-up.

That rumor's been in the ether for a while. Mostly that Matt's going to be Peter's lawyer.

[swanpride]

Yeah, but it has gained traction, apparently because of Grace Randolf.

[benteen]

I saw have put rumor on that bit of news but I'm very excited about this and think it has a good chance of being true.

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

I saw have put rumor on that bit of news but I'm very excited about this and think it has a good chance of being true.

Yea it is hard not to be skeptical since it seems like I have read rumours that Marvel was bringing Charlie Cox back as Daredevil pretty much once a month ever since the show was cancelled. But I hope it happens since it would be a cool cameo.

[BetterButter]

Rachel McAdams Returning For ‘Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness’

[Guest]

10 hours ago, swanpride said:

Yeah, but it has gained traction, apparently because of Grace Randolf.

She’s just repeating a report by a Charles Murphy making it a little bit more likely to be true. 

2 hours ago, BetterButter said:

Rachel McAdams Returning For ‘Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness’

I hope they give her more to do this time. 
 

Disney’s investor day starts in an hour for anyone interested in watching the livestream.