Friends - General Discussion

[LBS]

Interesting article about the writers for Friends.  

https://www.vulture.com/2019/08/generation-friends-saul-austerlitz.html

[Nellise]

8 hours ago, LBS said:

Interesting article about the writers for Friends.  

https://www.vulture.com/2019/08/generation-friends-saul-austerlitz.html

It's funny that two of the jokes the article talks about that the writers thought were great are two that I don't like at all when I watch now, they feel very much like writer jokes, not character ones: The poker episode's Chandler 5 dentists and Dee from What's Happening jokes. Although to be fair, the laugh track for those is super obnoxious which probably taints my view of them too.

[mojoween]

I never understood why everyone seemed so gaga over the Trident joke.  I’ll just handwave that Matthew was amazing and sold it well.

I preordered the book that article came from and cannot wait to September 17 when it is sent out.  I couldn’t tell if it was an authorized telling but it sure seems to be.

[Crs97]

The Trident joke was merely okay, but the What’s Happening joke was much worse. I was in their demographic wheelhouse and barely remember the show, which I think is why they had to remind us she was the sarcastic sister.  There had to have been better punchlines available.

[Danny Franks]

From that article:

Quote

On occasion, the actors would nix plotlines they could not stomach, as with a story in which Chandler would sneak into a gay bar because he loved the chef’s tuna melts. Matthew Perry said no, and the story was shelved.

Ooh boy, there's one that wouldn't have been funny and would have aged horrendously. Good call, Matthew Perry.

I guess I just didn't find early Chandler anywhere near as funny as the writers did. He always came off as far too try-hard and desperate to be the centre of attention to me. Which makes complete sense for his character, given all we learned about his childhood, but it ensured he was never my favourite Friend.

[Bort]

15 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

I guess I just didn't find early Chandler anywhere near as funny as the writers did. He always came off as far too try-hard and desperate to be the centre of attention to me. Which makes complete sense for his character, given all we learned about his childhood, but it ensured he was never my favourite Friend.

It's something that they covered fairly early on with Phoebe's shrink boyfriend. I kind of felt sorry for Roger, because the Friends hatred of him wasn't really about him per se, but about how on point he was about their personality flaws. Although, as a shrink, he would have to know that you can't go around psychoanalyzing everyone you meet because most people don't like that.

[supposebly]

I agree. I really liked that Chandler wasn't just "the funny one" in a sitcom but there was a reason why he felt the need to joke about everything and they all commented on it once in a while. It even became a thing when they did their New Year's Resolutions. At least I think it was New Year's. Or a bet?

It was much better than the stuff they came up for Phoebe when they talked about what they found annoying about each other. Phoebe chewing her hair was in one episode and then never mentioned or done again.

[Bort]

9 minutes ago, supposebly said:

It was much better than the stuff they came up for Phoebe when they talked about what they found annoying about each other. Phoebe chewing her hair was in one episode and then never mentioned or done again.

Yeah, but I like the line Rachel did about it, so I can let that one go.

RACHEL: I should really get back to work.
PHOEBE: Yeah, 'cause otherwise someone might get what they actually ordered.
RACHEL: Ohh. The hair comes out and the gloves come off.

[Inquisitionist]

On 8/22/2019 at 5:02 PM, Nellise said:

It's funny that two of the jokes the article talks about that the writers thought were great are two that I don't like at all when I watch now, they feel very much like writer jokes, not character ones: The poker episode's Chandler 5 dentists and Dee from What's Happening jokes. Although to be fair, the laugh track for those is super obnoxious which probably taints my view of them too.

Ugh, those are both awful and I remember thinking so when I first heard them.  The writing often felt a bit forced in the first season, for all the characters.  

[Bort]

It's funny that some of the lines that I think are the best, are the ones that are never brought up. Just today, I had Netflix running Friends while I was cleaning and the line by Rachel after she and Monica are banging their heads against the support post for Ben is one that cracks me up every time. "If it's not a headboard, it's just not worth it."

[Rescue Mama]

2 hours ago, kariyaki said:

It's funny that some of the lines that I think are the best, are the ones that are never brought up. Just today, I had Netflix running Friends while I was cleaning and the line by Rachel after she and Monica are banging their heads against the support post for Ben is one that cracks me up every time. "If it's not a headboard, it's just not worth it."

My all time favorite line from the show is "don't 'aw, Pheebs that sucks me yet'". From the episode with Teri Garr. My daughter and I find a way to work that line into our conversations a lot. 

[Peace 47]

2 hours ago, kariyaki said:

It's funny that some of the lines that I think are the best, are the ones that are never brought up. Just today, I had Netflix running Friends while I was cleaning and the line by Rachel after she and Monica are banging their heads against the support post for Ben is one that cracks me up every time. "If it's not a headboard, it's just not worth it."

I just rewatched that ep a couple weeks ago and really liked the B-plot general dynamic among Rachel, Monica and Ross in that episode.  Monica silently mouthing reassurance to Ross that she would be in the apartment the whole time when Rachel volunteers to watch Ben; Ross baiting Monica about Ben acting “off” and Rachel staying out of it directly but saying to Ross in an aside that she hopes it’s all still funny to Ross when he’s in Hell; and Rachel and Monica dressing up Ben in the rain gear.  That episode really sold for me the sibling, best friend and romantic dynamics that were going on in their various permutations among the three.

[Bort]

And I love that the episode starts with Joey's milk spout commercial and has Rachel opening milk with one later in the episode.

[FilmTVGeek80]

On 8/25/2019 at 8:57 AM, Crs97 said:

The Trident joke was merely okay, but the What’s Happening joke was much worse. I was in their demographic wheelhouse and barely remember the show, which I think is why they had to remind us she was the sarcastic sister.  There had to have been better punchlines available.

I liked the Trident joke, but absolutely loved the What's Happening? joke. I grew up watching that show but didn't think it was well known and was absolutely surprised when Chandler mentioned it. Even if I didn't know the reference I would have thought it was funny/ I love jokes like that. Dorothy used to say stuff like that on The Golden Girls a lot and it always cracked me up.

[voiceover]

Sometimes it wasn't the line itself that I loved, but the way it was delivered, put it in my Top 10.

Jennifer Aniston was the Friend who really grew into her comic chops over the years.  My favorite line of Rachel's was all in **how she said it, and had nothing to do with any joke:

It was in the second half on the "...Might Have Been" ep, after alt-universe Rachel walks in on husband Barry & the dog walker.  She blows into Central Perk, sees Ross, and snaps, "Do wedding vows mean squat to you people??"

Always slays me.

eta: hey I wrote this last year too🤣

Edited August 29, 2019 by voiceover
Apologies for repeating myself

[scarynikki12]

1 hour ago, voiceover said:

Sometimes it wasn't the line itself that I loved, but the way it was delivered

Exactly. My favorite Friends funny moment was in The One With The Ride Along:

Chandler comments that Joey's sandwich does smell as good as he claimed (this is The Greatest Sandwich In The World). Joey gets mad at him for smelling the sandwich because "half the taste is in the smell! You're sucking up all the taste units."

And Chandler responds: "Ok I'll give them back", then exhales through his nose and it still kills me after all this time.

[Danny Franks]

9 hours ago, voiceover said:

Sometimes it wasn't the line itself that I loved, but the way it was delivered, put it in my Top 10.

Jennifer Aniston was the Friend who really grew into her comic chops over the years.  My favorite line of Rachel's was all in **how she said it, and had nothing to do with any joke:

It was in the second half on the "...Might Have Been" ep, after alt-universe Rachel walks in on husband Barry & the dog walker.  She blows into Central Perk, sees Ross, and snaps, "Do wedding vows mean squat to you people??"

Always slays me.

eta: hey I wrote this last year too🤣

Jennifer Aniston grew hugely, over the run of the show. In the first couple of seasons, she was kind of awkward and fragile, for a lot of the funny stuff she was asked to do. But her line deliveries and, particularly, her reaction shots, got so, so much better as the show progressed.

All the actors got better, and the writers honed in on what they were best at, then wrote to those strengths. Which is why we got more and more crazy Ross, and less of Chandler forcing punchlines into every conversation (I think Matthew Perry is better when he's more relaxed, than he is when he's manic).

[blondiec0332]

I do think the actor's portrayal of their characters got so much better as the series progressed.  They each developed their own "thing". To this day I still say "I know" real loud like Monica.

[Inquisitionist]

There was some discussion a while back about when Phoebe started to get mean.  The consensus seems to be that she underwent a change during her pregnancy in season 4 that stuck after that, but I'm rewatching from the start on Netflix, and I think I see the seeds of it in season 2, episode 3, The One Where Heckles Dies, where she goaded Ross about evolution in a way that bordered on nasty (end of video).  Then in 2-6, The One with the Baby on the Bus, she got pretty nasty when the owner of Central Perk decided to hire a real singer to perform there.  Did not like Phoebe in this one.

But I always like Lisa Kudrow as a performer, and I've enjoyed watching clips of her recorded for EMMYTVLEGENDS.ORG about how she came to be cast as Phoebe and how she approached the role. 

[blondiec0332]

I think Phoebe was the least defined character. She was "quirky" so I think the writers thought that was license to be fluid with her personality.  She could be very zen and then she would be mean as mentioned above. 

Even though Lisa Kudrow won an Emmy for Phoebe I think she was so much better in the Comeback.

[Bort]

Phoebe was mean when they wrote her that way. That was I think the weakness of the show: writing that was often plot driven, rather than character driven. Writing like that ends up having characters that swing wildly in extremes. 

[Nordly Beaumont]

12 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

To this day I still say "I know" real loud like Monica.

I had a boyfriend who rarely watched tv, but was at my house when I was watching the show. It was the one where Gary shoots the bird. From then on, he used "oooh, no..." the way Phoebe said it! He actually decided he liked the show once in awhile. He laughed his butt off when Gunther told Phoebe's boyfriend "Put the mouse back in the house. This is a family place."

[voiceover]

Sometimes it's how they *say the line (my previous post); sometimes -- obviously! -- it's the line itself:

Phoebe (to Ross, after her contractions start to get worse): "I don't see three kids coming out of your vagina!"

After a nervous Chandler admits to taking relationship advice from his BFFs:

Monica (gestures towards them): "Two divorces and Joey??"

[Crs97]

And their reaction to Monica’s insult was perfect when they agree with her, but think it’s a cheap shot.

I really dislike the storyline of Rachel getting a spa certificate, Phoebe ripping it up, and then Rachel going anyway and finding out Phoebe works there.  Bad enough that Phoebe bullies her friends into doing what she wants, but then to be so hypocritical about it all.  For all Monica’s flaws, I appreciated when she told Chandler she didn’t expect him to kowtow to her quirks.  Phoebe demanded everyone abide by her rules, even when she didn’t follow them.  She was exhausting.

[voiceover]

14 hours ago, Crs97 said:

And their reaction to Monica’s insult was perfect when they agree with her, but think it’s a cheap shot.

Yes, x100.  A throwaway reax, but perfection.

In fact, that whole scene -- from Chandler running in, looking for Monica; to his apology prelude; to his proposal (and Rachel's priceless "Ohhhh...I can't *not look at it"); to his ranking of reasons to marry; to his "...but I know I'm not afraid to do this" (a giant leap for that neurotic wisecracking mess); to their sweet embrace; to the ending! where Monica asks Chandler what he would've done if she'd said "Yes".

First he's romantic, and says it would've made him happy.

Then he reverts to type: "...or you would've seen a big Chandler-shaped hole in that door."

[readster]

9 hours ago, voiceover said:

Yes, x100.  A throwaway reax, but perfection.

In fact, that whole scene -- from Chandler running in, looking for Monica; to his apology prelude; to his proposal (and Rachel's priceless "Ohhhh...I can't *not look at it"); to his ranking of reasons to marry; to his "...but I know I'm not afraid to do this" (a giant leap for that neurotic wisecracking mess); to their sweet embrace; to the ending! where Monica asks Chandler what he would've done if she'd said "Yes".

First he's romantic, and says it would've made him happy.

Then he reverts to type: "...or you would've seen a big Chandler-shaped hole in that door."

A coworker of mine made a reference like that a few years later. Saying if she would have said "no" he was going to be taking a giant leap off of the water fall where he proposed and would have been a new tourist attraction. "The Scott Pit, where it ended on one fateful day." We all cracked up.

[scarynikki12]

Another favorite moment is when Emily finally calls Ross back and he's so excited he grabs that lamp and hands it to Chandler. I have no idea who came up with that gag but I hope they got a raise because that shit is still hilarious.

[supposebly]

If I had to guess, I would credit David Schwimmer. He often found the hilarious but real parts within the awkward moments.

I hate cringe humor normally but not when he does it. And Ross had a lot of them.

Edited September 2, 2019 by supposebly

[kokapetl]

If you’re part of the tiny subset that loves both Friends and LEGO, you’ll love:

https://ideas.lego.com/blogs/a4ae09b6-0d4c-4307-9da8-3ee9f3d368d6/post/a6beb9b2-b94c-49c1-ad3a-ec2c120c7875

Looks like they redid the Rachel LEGO hair between the video and the box mock-up. 

Edited September 2, 2019 by kokapetl

[WendyCR72]

Now (I think) I've seen everything!

[Mr. Meatball Man]

I thought reading that article would be a waste of time, but it wasn't. I love finding out more about the creative process of my favorite shows. 

Between this show and The Simpsons, it seems like back then, comedy writers were killing themselves for hours trying to rewrite jokes and finish scripts. Is this still something that sitcoms do today, or is it more of a 9-to-5 job now? 

[kokapetl]

11 hours ago, Mr. Meatball Man said:

I thought reading that article would be a waste of time, but it wasn't. I love finding out more about the creative process of my favorite shows. 

Between this show and The Simpsons, it seems like back then, comedy writers were killing themselves for hours trying to rewrite jokes and finish scripts. Is this still something that sitcoms do today, or is it more of a 9-to-5 job now? 

Even for sitcoms unlike Friends, with no philosophy, (like Seinfeld “no learning no hugging”), I don’t think writing for them has ever or will ever be anything other than a job that requires huge commitment.

[cherrypj]

On 9/2/2019 at 3:57 PM, kokapetl said:

If you’re part of the tiny subset that loves both Friends and LEGO, you’ll love:

Waiting for delivery!

[Mr. Meatball Man]

On 9/3/2019 at 3:07 PM, kokapetl said:

Even for sitcoms unlike Friends, with no philosophy, (like Seinfeld “no learning no hugging”), I don’t think writing for them has ever or will ever be anything other than a job that requires huge commitment.

I'm only asking because it seemed to be a trend back then. The writers and producers seemed to be putting in an insane amount of hours for the shows they worked on. Like with The Simpsons, when Al Jean and Mike Reiss became showrunners, they were working 80-100 hours a week. Everybody was working until the middle of the night, especially when they had to do rewrites. Then when Mike Scully took over in season nine, he started cutting back hours because he knew a lot of the writers had families and personal lives, and he was a Los Angeles Kings season ticket holder so he wanted to have more time to attend games. That was also around the time the show started to decline, and as far as I know, the Simpsons crew isn't working those long hours anymore.

I'm pretty sure there are shows that still have long workdays, but I want to believe it's less chaotic than it was in the 90s. 

[kokapetl]

2 hours ago, Mr. Meatball Man said:

I'm only asking because it seemed to be a trend back then. The writers and producers seemed to be putting in an insane amount of hours for the shows they worked on. Like with The Simpsons, when Al Jean and Mike Reiss became showrunners, they were working 80-100 hours a week. Everybody was working until the middle of the night, especially when they had to do rewrites. Then when Mike Scully took over in season nine, he started cutting back hours because he knew a lot of the writers had families and personal lives, and he was a Los Angeles Kings season ticket holder so he wanted to have more time to attend games. That was also around the time the show started to decline, and as far as I know, the Simpsons crew isn't working those long hours anymore.

I'm pretty sure there are shows that still have long workdays, but I want to believe it's less chaotic than it was in the 90s. 

I think Jean & Reiss’ results speak for themselves (or itself?). The Simpsons is an outlier amongst sitcoms, and remains a license to print money, so some utter crap has made it to air just because its The Simpsons. 

[voiceover]

On 9/4/2019 at 10:48 AM, cherrypj said:

Waiting for delivery [of Friends LEGO]

I think I speak for the thread here:

Report back plz

[cherrypj]

It's great! There's a couch, so Ross will definitely pivot. Joey has his pizza (but not a meatball sub). My youngest is recreating scenes, line-by-line, and is really good at it.

[rubaco]

Sunday 9pm (Eastern), CNN is airing a 25th anniversary special called "Friends Forever." Not sure how many of the cast were interviewed for this (if any). I did see Marta Kauffman in one of the promos.

[Peace 47]

I just rewatched the Thanksgiving episode where Amy visits, Monica is concerned about damage to her wedding china and there is the argument about who would raise Emma if something happened to Rachel and Ross.  I really, really enjoy the dinner table conversation on this one, particularly the way Matthew Perry delivers the line, “I managed to survive whatever killed the three of you!”, the way Lisa Kudrow is cutting the food above her plate (at Monica’s instruction) as she sarcastically chimes in that Monica is loads of fun, and the way Matt LeBlanc delivers all of his lines noting who’s lying, and whom he can lie better than.

I’ve been watching this a ton on Netflix as my current go-to “gentle” comedy (for background noise or before bed).  I really like this show a lot.  There are some plots/ running gags that really do sit badly, though, that stick out and make me want to comment on them 25 years later (lol), including the running low-key sexism? toxic masculinity? misogyny? that seems so dated now.  Like when Joey says some very, very sweet things about why he wanted to take Chandler to his movie premiere (it almost made me well up, because I had forgotten the scene), and then he immediately has to make jokes about needing to do something manly, and Phoebe suggests that one of them wear Monica’s new dress to the premiere.  It was such a genuinely nice moment that got ruined by going for some pretty old-fashioned jokes.

Or Ross with the male nanny.  Like, it could have been one thing for him to be uncomfortable with someone who is cloyingly overemotional (which this nanny was not), and I think the episode ended with the male nanny uncovering what Ross’s real issue was (although I can’t imagine Jack Gellar saying such mean things to Ross, his adored child).  But the constant stream of jokes until then about how weird a male nanny is when the Freddie Prinze Jr. character was obviously educated in early childhood development and a good person, just kind of sends a bad message.  See also:  Chandler commenting that a man shouldn’t be a nurse, in that one episode (I think when Phoebe has the triplets).  The nurse had a good comeback that it didn’t seem so girly when he was a combat nurse, and I think they could have left well enough alone with that, but then they also had him say the line that he was just doing nursing while he went through med school.  Like, the writers couldn’t leave well enough alone in letting there be dignity in nursing in and of itself or allow a man to view that as an ultimate career goal.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Peace 47

[Madding crowd]

I agree with your most except I thought the male nanny was cloying over emotional. I wouldn’t feel comfortable with someone who sobs while talking about their own engagement. Plus expecting adults to act out their emotions with puppets- he supposed to be taking care of the baby not making everything about himself.

[Mr. Meatball Man]

Anybody watch the CNN special? It was alright, but at this point, if you know a lot about the show, it's not going to surprise you or give you any new information. It was also a lot shorter than it should have been. They briefly talked about the show becoming more popular after 9/11, and since the special was almost over, they couldn't go into any more detail than that. It was useless to even mention. 

I don't know, that "Generation Friends" book at least sounds interesting, and if that article is anything to go by, it might actually have something new to say about the show. 

[VCRTracking]

I have a theory that the reason Rachel and Chandler had(as far as I can remember) only two episodes with stories where they're paired up, despite being very hilarious together was because the producers thought viewers would end up wanting them together romantically. I mean Matthew Perry and Jennifer Aniston circa 95 were gorgeous:

[helenamonster]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

I have a theory that the reason Rachel and Chandler had(as far as I can remember) only two episodes with stories where they're paired up, despite being very hilarious together was because the producers thought viewers would end up wanting them together romantically. I mean Matthew Perry and Jennifer Aniston circa 95 were gorgeous:

Why...why would people want these two to teach them Windows 95? I'm sure they're very nice but like...what?

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, helenamonster said:

Why...why would people want these two to teach them Windows 95? I'm sure they're very nice but like...what?

Keep in mind, this was just after the first season premiered and the entire cast became overnight stars, but they didn't become TOO big that they couldn't shill stuff. Plus this was before Apple made a comeback so Windows was THE computer.

[WendyCR72]

3 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

Keep in mind, this was just after the first season premiered and the entire cast became overnight stars, but they didn't become TOO big that they couldn't shill stuff. Plus this was before Apple made a comeback so Windows was THE computer.

I had a Windows 95 computer and now these instruction videos are surfacing in my memory. Man, they were cheesy!

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

I have a theory that the reason Rachel and Chandler had(as far as I can remember) only two episodes with stories where they're paired up, despite being very hilarious together was because the producers thought viewers would end up wanting them together romantically

Admittedly, I have bias as I am a Monica/Chandler fan. But, putting that aside, I'm still glad it never happened. Ross fell for Rachel. Joey fell for Rachel. All three would put Rachel in dangerous Mary Sue territory, IMO. So - fan angle aside - I'm glad one of the guys was immune!

[blondiec0332]

On 9/16/2019 at 10:09 PM, Mr. Meatball Man said:

I don't know, that "Generation Friends" book at least sounds interesting, and if that article is anything to go by, it might actually have something new to say about the show. 

There were two books each named I'll be there for you.  One released last year and one released this summer. The one last year I really enjoyed. It was about the show from start to finish. I did learn some new things. The one from this summer was more lightweight.  It had fashion tips and dating advice, stuff like that.

[Crs97]

The producers didn’t need to worry about me because I had no interest in Chandler being romantically involved with Rachel, even with their scenes together.  I don’t know whether to credit the writers or actors (probably both), but Chandler and Monica were a slow burn from early on.  Actually, Monica has the most believable relationships.  Before Chandler and she got together, I think people could see her with Richard, despite the age difference, or with Pete.  

[Irlandesa]

On 9/17/2019 at 4:57 PM, VCRTracking said:

I have a theory that the reason Rachel and Chandler had(as far as I can remember) only two episodes with stories where they're paired up, despite being very hilarious together was because the producers thought viewers would end up wanting them together romantically.

I don't think they would have cared about that. If they were afraid of people starting to ship non-end game couples, they never would have done Rachel/Joey so late in the game.

[Danny Franks]

8 hours ago, Crs97 said:

The producers didn’t need to worry about me because I had no interest in Chandler being romantically involved with Rachel, even with their scenes together.  I don’t know whether to credit the writers or actors (probably both), but Chandler and Monica were a slow burn from early on.  Actually, Monica has the most believable relationships.  Before Chandler and she got together, I think people could see her with Richard, despite the age difference, or with Pete.  

Thinking about it, the writers did put more effort into crafting real relationships for Monica than they did for the others, a lot of the time. With Richard and with Pete, they spent a fair amount of time setting up the relationships, including a long lead with Pete, where Monica wasn't even that interested.

They did that a couple of times with other characters - Joey and Kate and Chandler and Kathy, for example - but the relationships ended far more quickly than they began. And with Dina Meyer's Kate, in particular, I wish she'd stuck around and been a real relationship for Joey (who never had one on the show).