Endeavour - General Discussion

[Popples]

2 minutes ago, freddi said:

In the opening of "Pylon," in the mix of short images (drug addict in doorway, school picture lineup), one quick image was of the obnoxious inspector apparently at a new development/apartment highrise called Martyrs Field -- then he got in the car and drove away.  There was no followup on that short image, so I wonder if it will come back in a later episode?  I always like to go back to the opening to see how the different pieces come together.  It is unusual, perhaps unique, that this did not become part of the plot.  

Spoiler

Yes, it comes up again.

[freddi]

Thanks for tagging the answer!  (Not terribly spoilery, for anyone with an aversion to spoilers.)

I also meant to note that this episode took place between July 1 and July 11 or 12 1969 -- the little girl's "missing" poster listed her as missing from July 1, and the letter about Morse's appointment was dated July 11 (so, he probably had it a day later).  

[Tardislass]

From TV ads, it looks like we have another snarky Endeavour/Joan conversation tonight. Ugh, they should have been over after she refused his offer for coffee. 

[SusanSunflower]

yes, I thought we had sufficient set-up in the first seasons that Endeavor endured a lonely, even loveless childhood.  The Thursday nuclear family may have felt like a "warm bath" or some comforting TV sitcom, with day of the week sandwiches, but I've seen Morse (and Endeavor) as more Harry Haller/Steppenwolf characters who would naturally grow restless and irritable with the mundane nature of his existence, which I think he did anyway, plenty, but for the puzzle of police work,  I know others saw Endeavor wanting a ready-made wife with some guarantee of happily ever after, but Joan was really quite clear she had no intention to live her mother's life as a copper's wife..  After being refused so many times (I was hoping for mad passionate sex with the click of the front door lock followed by the realization they didn't need to pursue a "relationship."")   We'll see what the writers have in store for us, although I feel more confident she will not be killed off, more likely squired off by a rival. 

[Brattinella]

I just want Box and his redheaded henchman to be packed off somewhere.

[Dessert]

Wow! They completely cut a big scene between Morse and Joan! What are they thinking.

I loved the episode, though. It was visually beautiful, too.

[freddi]

It is still not clear to me if everyone at the party knew the girl had fallen and died.  And we are supposed to assume that she just fell, was not pushed?

The final red letters in the credits were "Sylvia and Gerry Anderson", who produced a show in 1970 in Britain called "UFO", about an alien invasion.  Hah!  

So, last week's episode was July 1-12, 1969.  This one was July 14-21, 1969 (Moon landing on the 20th in the US; the 21st in Britain, around 4:00 AM).  Nice tie-in to the 50th anniversary!  

Oh, PBS cut a long scene between Bright and Thursday near the beginning of the episode, where they talk about the Apollo launch and whether they have led lives of significance.  Just small talk, PBS, don't worry yourself about character development and meaningful scenes.  

Edited June 24, 2019 by freddi

[Tardislass]

5 hours ago, freddi said:

Oh, PBS cut a long scene between Bright and Thursday near the beginning of the episode, where they talk about the Apollo launch and whether they have led lives of significance.  Just small talk, PBS, don't worry yourself about character development and meaningful scenes.  

You should know that PBS will cut any scene that is small talk, it happened on Inspector Lewis. Obviously anything not-relating to plot can be cut. 

10 hours ago, SusanSunflower said:

 We'll see what the writers have in store for us, although I feel more confident she will not be killed off, more likely squired off by a rival. 

I always assumed Joan will meet someone on her job and end up marrying them and moving away. Edited to add that I was listening to this weeks Masterpiece podcast with Shaun Evans and his wish is that Joan/Morse get together only to realize they don't make each other happy. He thought that would be much more tragic for Morse than the will they/won't they that has a shelf-life. But it sounds like Russell Lewis(the writer) wants to keep doing the cliched pining which has already gone past its expiration date. 

Edited June 24, 2019 by Tardislass

[Desperado]

I don’t know if it was because I was tired, but the latest episode bored me. The sadness still lingers and I think Joan’s role is growing into something more substantial and I’m fine with that. The young girl was great in her role, but the scene where the young boy talks about Joan and Morse being is new parents felt ridiculous and forced.

I think DS Jago is slowly warming to Morse and Thursday, but Box is a plague. I see enough of that type of plague in the real world, seeing it on TV ruining the day for my favourite characters galls me.

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, Tardislass said:

You should know that PBS will cut any scene that is small talk,

On "Poldark's" first season when Ross and Demelza were first falling in love they cut a romantic scene, so as not to leave out anything about the boring financial problems at the mine.  I'll never forgive them.  I recently paid the 60 dollars to get their "Passport," expecting to see great old Masterpiece shows, only to find out they don't own most of those things.  I can now see as many reruns of "Columbus Neighborhoods" as I want, though.

"Endeavour" is still wonderful to me.  The young men are all dressing the way they did in my youth with trousers that fit properly in a nice unbroken line from waist to shoe top, making their legs look very long.  It's all making me feel things I haven't felt in 50 years.  Bring me my smelling salts!

[M. Darcy]

Has anyone bought the episodes on iTunes?  Do you know if they are the entire episodes shown in the UK or the cut PBS versions?

A Jaguar!  That's Morse's great love!  Along with Lewis 🙂 

[Popples]

4 minutes ago, M. Darcy said:

Has anyone bought the episodes on iTunes?  Do you know if they are the entire episodes shown in the UK or the cut PBS versions?

Google Play and iTunes have the entire unedited episodes.

[magdalene]

I am so pissed at PBS for cutting all these scenes out. I won't support PBS financially when they beg for money during their pledge drives because of this.

[Popples]

[sagittarius sue]

1 hour ago, Popples said:

Lovely little video!  I enjoy hearing their natural accents.

[DHDancer]

14 hours ago, freddi said:

The final red letters in the credits were "Sylvia and Gerry Anderson", who produced a show in 1970 in Britain called "UFO", about an alien invasion. 

More relevantly to this particular episode is that Gerry and Sylvia are most famous for their highly acclaimed "Supermarionation" puppet series including my childhood favorite "Thunderbirds".  The puppet scenes shown in Apollo were very referential to Stingray especially, with nods to Fireball XL5 and Thunderbirds.  Pretty close to the 55th anniversary of these.

[WatchrTina]

Can anyone remind me why Thursday and his wife are on the outs?  Is it because Thursday loaned money to his good-for-nothing brother who can't pay it back and now Thursday can't retire and they can't go traveling as they had planned?

Edited June 25, 2019 by WatchrTina

[Popples]

15 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Can anyone remind me why Thursday and his wife are on the outs?  Is it because Thursday loaned money to his good-for-nothing brother who can't pay it back and now Thursday can't retire and they can't go traveling as they had planned?

Yes, and the fact that he didn't discuss it at all with Win until it was too late and he would never get it back.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

Horrible, foolish, and stupid move on Fred Thursday's part.  His brother dug his own hole.

[DHDancer]

31 minutes ago, Popples said:

Yes, and the fact that he didn't discuss it at all with Win until it was too late and he would never get it back.

Spoiler

Worse than that, it was some shady deal into the bargain.

[atlantaloves]

Loved loved loved the second episode, S. Evans did a great job directing, didn't he? Even his "stash" is growing on me, he is so handsome! I just rewatched him in one of his first films Being Julia, my Lord he was barely in his 20's, and did a perfect American accent and I have to add just a tad chubby compared to now. That film is still perfection and Annette Bening should have won an A/A for it.

[elle]

8 hours ago, DHDancer said:

More relevantly to this particular episode is that Gerry and Sylvia are most famous for their highly acclaimed "Supermarionation" puppet series including my childhood favorite "Thunderbirds".  The puppet scenes shown in Apollo were very referential to Stingray especially, with nods to Fireball XL5 and Thunderbirds.  Pretty close to the 55th anniversary of these.

Interesting article here giving a bit of the behind the scenes for this episode.  A quote from the article.

We were blessed to have Anderson-royalty with us. Original Thunderbirds puppeteer Mary Turner came in to puppeteer, and original Thunderbirds director David Elliott co-directed with me. 

[DHDancer]

9 minutes ago, elle said:

Interesting article here giving a bit of the behind the scenes for this episode.  A quote from the article.

We were blessed to have Anderson-royalty with us. Original Thunderbirds puppeteer Mary Turner came in to puppeteer, and original Thunderbirds director David Elliott co-directed with me. 

Thx for sharing the article, Elle.  Amazing that Mary Turner at 85  was there and working.  Also Elliott...wow.  I'll have to rewatch and step thru the Moon Rangers scenes to see which old familiar faces I can spot.

I also enjoyed all the actual Apollo footage, remembering being allowed to go home from school to watch it.  We had to wait till approx 3pm for the moon walk (Jul 21, Victoria, Australia)

[LennieBriscoe]

I didn't realize that airings in other countries than the US counted.

Good thing I'm not still watching my years-behind PBS' "East Enders"!

I must have mentioned it before, but if you want to see a brilliant series with Tom Hardy and Shaun Evans,  watch the 4-part "The Take."

Edited June 25, 2019 by LennieBriscoe

[OoogleEyes]

The ultimate Porn 'Stash

Edited June 26, 2019 by OoogleEyes

[12catcrazy]

Sigh.  I know we've gone over this, but can people stop with the "porn stash" stuff.   Back in the 70s the majority of young/youngish men had mustaches and nobody back then associated it with porn.  There were actually a number of 70s porn actors who DIDN'T sport a mustache - LOL.  And as somebody mentioned, porn was not totally everywhere like it is today.  Playboy and Penthouse, yes, but they mainly featured women.  Hardcore stuff had to be searched out and you had to go to actual movie theaters to watch the films.  

I remember going to see a porn double header when my then-husband and I lived in Arkansas, (and we were both in our early 20s, and yes, my hubby had a 'stache).  We slinked in and got low in the movie chairs and felt embarrassed as all hell.   Now, people don't even have to go to the local "adult" video store.  It can all be downloaded.  No public shame at all.   

[howiveaddict]

On 6/24/2019 at 1:23 PM, Popples said:

Surprised they didn't cut even more of the episode to show this.

[freddi]

10 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

Sigh.  I know we've gone over this, but can people stop with the "porn stash" stuff.   Back in the 70s the majority of young/youngish men had mustaches and nobody back then associated it with porn. 

Thanks for this.  To anyone not around in the 1970s, thus was just how younger men looked.  Or some had crew cuts.  Hair on men was a culture signal, with various messages. A bushy moustache and a wide tie were very hip!   Endeavour looks like a lot of 20s men then.  Thursday looks like all the older men on their way to office work every day.  Win is all the women silently screaming when they discovered that their carefully tended families and planned futures did not turn out according to the script the wives/mothers had been taught to follow. 

[Driad]

I feel rather sorry for Win.  She was not taught how to handle major deviations from the script, she probably does not have much in the way of workplace skills, and she apparently is prone to depression.  If she were able to get a job to help with the family's finances, she might feel more empowered.

[chitowngirl]

Thursday would hate it if Win got a job! HE would go into a depression. Especially since he knows he’s the reason for not retiring.

[Brattinella]

Yes, we did call them porn staches in the 70's.  Remember John Holmes?

[SusanSunflower]

Actually, in conversation with Joan, there was mention of Win's job.  I don't know what it is/was or if it was paid, but she was a classic empty-nester even before Joan went "bad".  It was almost at the end.  Anyone -- anyone --would have recommended even a volunteer position. 

Who was she "girls' night out" with?   That confused me as she seemed almost defiant "don't wait up or me" in a way that might well give Thursday pause.   (I miss the son/brother and wonder after Morse's sister).

[DHDancer]

58 minutes ago, SusanSunflower said:

Who was she "girls' night out" with?   That confused me as she seemed almost defiant "don't wait up or me" in a way that might well give Thursday pause.

You'll find out in the next episode :)

[freddi]

I’m bummed that there are only four episodes this year.  Seem like we just got started, but after Sunday, only one episode remaining. ☹️

[Suzn]

I love this show, but I don't know if I missed an episode or scene/scenes that explained what is Joan's problem.  I don't understand her hateful attitude toward her father or really anything that explains her general pissy attitude.  Can anyone explain?

[Dessert]

1 hour ago, Suzn said:

I love this show, but I don't know if I missed an episode or scene/scenes that explained what is Joan's problem.  I don't understand her hateful attitude toward her father or really anything that explains her general pissy attitude.  Can anyone explain?

 Joan and Fred kind of made up last season after Win left, so I don’t know why they’re implying tension. She may just feel awkward because her parents aren’t getting along.

In season 4, she made some big mistakes and got herself in a terrible jam. They got in a huge fight and both said hurtful things that are difficult to forget. 

As much as I like Thursday, he was a very controlling father. 

[Driad]

16 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Thursday would hate it if Win got a job! HE would go into a depression. Especially since he knows he’s the reason for not retiring.

Fred, here is the world's smallest violin, playing just for you.

[OoogleEyes]

I'm rewatching the series on Amazon. In the first season, it seemed pretty obvious to me that Morse had trouble viewing the dead bodies. Was any explanation ever given for this?

[Suzn]

3 hours ago, Dessert said:

 Joan and Fred kind of made up last season after Win left, so I don’t know why they’re implying tension. She may just feel awkward because her parents aren’t getting along.

In season 4, she made some big mistakes and got herself in a terrible jam. They got in a huge fight and both said hurtful things that are difficult to forget. 

As much as I like Thursday, he was a very controlling father. 

Thanks for filling in the explanation.  I must have missed the episode with the big fight.

[Possum]

3 hours ago, OoogleEyes said:

I'm rewatching the series on Amazon. In the first season, it seemed pretty obvious to me that Morse had trouble viewing the dead bodies. Was any explanation ever given for this?

That's a way of keeping the character consistent.  In the original "Inspector Morse" series, even older Morse was always squeamish.  There was some teasing him about it by Max and the pathologists who followed him.

[Popples]

45 minutes ago, Suzn said:

Thanks for filling in the explanation.  I must have missed the episode with the big fight.

Series 4, episode 4 "Harvest".

[Possum]

"Apollo"

I'm mixed on this one.  My favorite thing about the episode was seeing Thursday and Morse working together again.  Something rather silly probably, but I saw the retired, beaten up old Jag as symbolic of Thursday's current life.  I was hoping at the end to see the mechanic having restored the Jag but was disappointed when that didn't happen.

As with last week, the tone was dreary.  While it's understandable considering what's happening in the characters' lives, I miss lightness and a touch of good humor.  I think Morse got lucky with the basement office -- away from all of the idiots with room to think.  Plus, it never hurts being close to the coffee machine.  🙂

When the two thugs beat up Thursday, I kept thinking that Box probably set that up.  Box knew that Thursday wouldn't stay in the car when he saw the criminals running by.  And, they so conveniently escaped with Box running a few steps after them and then stopping.  At least Morse is throwing caution to the wind and talking back to Box.  But then, unlike Thursday, Morse has less to lose should he be fired.

As for the actual story, I found it OK but a little convoluted.  That's fine because I'm always more interested in characters than plot anyway.  The characters were more unlikable and sleazy than sympathetic.

The whole Morse/Joan thing is becoming overdone.  We knew they don't end up together. I know this is out of the blue, but I wonder if she ends up with Strange.  While I've seen the original "Inspector Morse" series at least a dozen times, I can't recall if we ever heard Strange's wife's name.  Does anyone recall?

Overall, it was a decent episode if not a favorite for me.  I hope we're working up to some good conclusion where all will be well in the world again.

[Suzn]

47 minutes ago, Popples said:

Series 4, episode 4 "Harvest".

Thanks, I'll try to watch it on Amazon.  I think that's possible.😊

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 2:43 AM, LennieBriscoe said:

I didn't realize that airings in other countries than the US counted.

Good thing I'm not still watching my years-behind PBS' "East Enders"!

I must have mentioned it before, but if you want to see a brilliant series with Tom Hardy and Shaun Evans,  watch the 4-part "The Take."

For a number of years ,I looked forward to my 11pm-12am  Sunday night  2 episodes of EastEnders on PBS . .

[LennieBriscoe]

Oh,  likewise! But once I found out I was watching years-old "East Enders" PBS episodes while reading about current ones in the UK Daily Mail,  I stopped. Love the theme song and opening graphic still!

Topic: I don't care what Endeavour's moustache is called; I simply don't like how it looks on Shaun Evans! 

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

I felt like PBS had shit the bed by cancelling EastEnders.  I didn't care if the episodes they had been showing were about 10 years old. The 1997 to 2004 or 2005 were great years for EE, at least to me. I recorded every episode so I have at least that.  The last episodes I saw were when Max B. and family  had moved back to Albert Square and Bradley was finally trying to allow Max back in as a father. Unfortunately,Bradley and Stacey were having issues(again,ugh). Then came more drama, as is the M.O. of EastEnders,lol.  

[Dessert]

10 hours ago, Possum said:

That's a way of keeping the character consistent.  

Speaking of consistency, in the old series, Morse was a bit of a reckless driver. He was even ordered to take driving lessons at one point. 

Spoiler

Of course, the driving instructor turned out to be a serial killer who, hilariously, tried to stab Morse during a driving lesson.

It was important to the plot in several episodes.

Spoiler

My favorite was The Masonic Mysteries - a delightful send up. It opens with a woman passenger, who Morse hoped to date, screaming in terror as he careened through the streets of Oxford to a rehearsal of the Magic Flute. 

They don’t seem to be going that route with Endeavour.

[freddi]

Just found I had done a screenshot of the daughter's letter to the parents as she took her brother and ran away, telling the parents to "grow up": 

[sugarbaker design]

On 6/26/2019 at 10:10 PM, Driad said:

I feel rather sorry for Win.  She was not taught how to handle major deviations from the script, she probably does not have much in the way of workplace skills, and she apparently is prone to depression.  If she were able to get a job to help with the family's finances, she might feel more empowered.

I feel bad for Win also, not only for her second class citizen status as a housewife in 60's UK, but more so she played by the rules, she put her family first, her own needs second and wound up with a dimwit husband who ruined their dream of a comfortable retirement, an absentee son and an ungrateful selfish bitch for a daughter.  I hope her 'girls night out'  was with another guy.

[Popples]

 

 

1

1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

I feel bad for Win also, not only for her second class citizen status as a housewife in 60's UK, but more so she played by the rules, she put her family first, her own needs second and wound up with a dimwit husband who ruined their dream of a comfortable retirement, an absentee son and an ungrateful selfish bitch for a daughter.  I hope her 'girls night out'  was with another guy.

Sam joined the Army, so he doesn't have much say on his whereabouts.