Avengers: Endgame (2019)

[calliope1975]

21 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

I have yet to see any love for the MVP of Endgame: The rat who let Scott out of the quantum realm. There needs to be a worldwide day of remembrance for that rat.

That rat saved billions of people across multiple planets. Team San Francisco Rat - the hero we deserve. 

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, Wynterwolf said:

But then, OldSteve wouldn't have shown up on the bench when he did, to give the shield to Sam, as if he had lived through the current time line from the '40s with Peggy.  He would nave been in a different timeline than everyone else. With a different Peggy and different Bucky.

50 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

Through what mechanism though?  They need that staging area thing to time travel. 

Presumably the alternate timeline's Tony, Bruce and Pym devised a way to get him to the main one without it.

Edited April 27, 2019 by VCRTracking

[Enigma X]

Just left the theater and want to say it was everything and more. Tony is my favorite and I am still blubbering but expected him to go. Will have more later.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

Presumably the alternate timeline's Tony, Bruce and Pym devised a way to get him to the main one without it.

But why would they need to. Steve already had the way back. For me it’s one of those things that needed to addressed in the movie if there is an alternate explanation. 

It would bother me less is there weren’t other logic issues with the ending. I feel like they wove a tightly knit story and then in the last few minutes dropped half the threads, tied it into a bow and called it a day. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Guest

[Wynterwolf]

5 minutes ago, Dani said:

It would bother me less is there weren’t other logic issues with the ending. I feel like they wove a tightly knit story and then in the last few minutes dropped half the threads, tied it into a bow and called it a day.

Ha, I just texted my friend that it's like they fumbled the ball away on the one yard line.  

[anna0852]

I've decided to just handwave the ending as 'different time lines' and let it go. 

It was a lovely send off and I'm still reeling, having seen it twice already and have tickets for a third on Sunday. 

There might be something wrong with me....

[TigerLynx]

They made a big deal about only bringing back the people Thanos snapped out of existence, and how they shouldn't change anything else, then Lokey took off with the Tasserac (sp?), Thanos realized what they were doing and showed up in the future from the past even though he's dead, etc., so, again, I can't get all that upset about Steve choosing to go back to Peggy.

Aside from everyone missing the people that were gone, was there any other reason they decided to risk doing this?  Don't get me wrong.  I understand wanting to bring back the people they lost, but they took a chance on destroying everyone who was left.

Also, the way they play fast and loose with this person can be brought back from death, but that person can't annoys me.

[ZoqFotPik]

This was a great movie. It had it's issues which I will get too later, but it was great. I didn't expect that they would split everyone up again, but with one exception I thought it worked well. I was surprised to see how many people they got to come back for this. I went in expecting either Stark or Capt to die, but I didn't think this would be the last movie for both of them. The final battle, Hollywood tactics aside, was fantastic. I'm pretty sure I'm going to see this again, just to see try and catch all the little things I missed the first time. Like many of you, I had issues with the time travel, but I'm just going to take Basil Exposition's advice: "I suggest you don't worry about those things and just enjoy yourself."

Things I didn't like:

1. They just couldn't help themselves with Loki could they? They just had to have a way for him to come back with the added bonus of erasing all of his development

2. The state of Earth. Current world population is around 7.7 billion, so after the snap there would still be, give or take, 3.85 billion people left. That's the approximate population of 1970. No more Mets? 5 years later and there are still trash bags piling up on the sidewalks in San Francisco? What admittedly little we saw and heard about the world didn't seem to be consistent.

3. Some of the groupings didn't make sense. You have 3 people with extraterrestrial experience, but instead of sending one to each of the other planets, they send two people with the least space experience on a mission together. I understand they did it so that Natasha would sacrifice herself, but I don't understand why the team would even plan it that way. Just felt like bit of lazy writing.

4. I thought Stark and Nebula's rescue was a little too easy.

5. I understand why the did it, but I didn't think the girl power scene was necessary.

Other stuff:

1. Sucks to be Jamie Alexander and Stellan Skarsgård. I think they are the only two people who didn't appear in this. Oh also Martin Freeman, although I like to think he was flying one of the Wakandan fighters.

2. I realize that there are issues between the movies and the tv shows, but it would have been nice to have had The Defenders appear during the final battle. 

3. Add Ken Jeong and Yvette Nicole Brown to the list of "Community" cast members to appear in an MCU film. Only Joel McHale, Gillian Jacobs, and Alison Brie to go. And Chevy I suppose, but I doubt that will happen. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

Aside from everyone missing the people that were gone, was there any other reason they decided to risk doing this?  Don't get me wrong.  I understand wanting to bring back the people they lost, but they took a chance on destroying everyone who was left.

I think they were trying to establish that the impact was far reaching in the scene where Natasha is talking to Rhodey, Okoye, Carol and Rocket. Carol talked about the Universe being in chaos. It also wasn’t really addressed on screen but the snap erased half of all life included plants and animals which would have had a huge impact on the ecosystem.

That’s a big part of the my problem with the time jump. They just took a universe in chaos and doubled the population with no warning. It would be every bit as disruptive at the original snap. 

[anna0852]

6 minutes ago, Dani said:

I think they were trying to establish that the impact was far reaching in the scene where Natasha is talking to Rhodey, Okoye, Carol and Rocket. Carol talked about the Universe being in chaos. It also wasn’t really addressed on screen but the snap erased half of all life included plants and animals which would have had a huge impact on the ecosystem.

That’s a big part of the my problem with the time jump. They just took a universe in chaos and doubled the population with no warning. It would be every bit as disruptive at the original snap. 

I had the impression that the *all the life forms* that were lost came back, not just the sentient ones. So the ecosystems were restored as well. Scott was gazing out the window at the plants and animals that appeared. 

[Wynterwolf]

2 minutes ago, Dani said:

the snap erased half of all life included plants and animals which would have had a huge impact on the ecosystem.

You know, when we saw Clint's family disappear, I had expected half of all the trees around him to disappear too, but they didn't (or if they did, I didn't see it, but I was specifically looking).  I kinda thought that was a weird detail for them not to include, I would have thought that would have been an automatic thing to create, because it would help set how much of a devastating impact it was.  And then I remembered, I don't think they did that in Wakanda either... and I think it's why no one realized that it was more than just people that disappeared until the Russos explained it.  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, anna0852 said:

I had the impression that the *all the life forms* that were lost came back, not just the sentient ones. So the ecosystems were restored as well. Scott was gazing out the window at the plants and animals that appeared. 

I thought the same thing. I was listing that as a possible reason why they would choose to risk everything to undo the snap. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

2 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Of course now there's a second Cap still in the ice. When he's unfrozen in the 21st century old Steve would tell his younger self to wait a few years until the tech is right for him to go back and be with Peggy creating another alternate timeline and so on and so on.

So Steve becomes John Connor, basically.

[Amethyst]

Wow, so much to unpack here.  I really enjoyed it, although I thought Infinity War was tighter and made more sense.  I know it's pointless trying to logic the time travel stuff, but a few things really stick out:

- Steve's ending, for all the reasons stated.  He definitely deserves his happy ending with Peggy, but it feels cheap if that means Peggy's happy life was erased because of it.  I'm hoping that was an alternate timeline, although I'm not sure how that would happen.

- If Steve and Tony took the Tesseract from 1970, how did the events of the first Avengers movie still happen the same way?  There wouldn't have been a Tesseract for Thanos or Loki to steal.

Otherwise, solid film.  That scene with "Avengers Assemble" was just heart stopping.  Talk about a culmination of years of work and dedication.  It was one for the books.

I didn't see Nat or Tony's deaths coming.  I feel like Nat got overshadowed by Tony's death, poor girl.  We saw a lot more emotion from her this time around.  

I always liked Tony Stark, and I'm glad that Pepper was with him when he died, and that she told him it was OK to go.  Tony's life has led to this several times, with him being afraid of everything falling apart when he could have stopped it.  Sad that he won't see Morgan grow up, but he got time with her, and she didn't get erased.  RDJ really brought life into this franchise, and him saying "I am Iron Man" really meant his story was ending.  That and his mention that Morgan was actually his second chance.  Foreshadowing.

Thor's weight gain and alcoholism made sense, given that he was finally grieving everything that he lost.  Guess it just caught up to him, and him breaking down in front of Bruce was so sad.  Not thrilled about his ending though.  He's already done the whole "I'd rather not be king" thing before, and the last film made him becoming king finally seem like the natural next step.  Him turning over the kingship to Valkyrie was...ok?  She's awesome, but it just felt so random.  As for their budding romance, that was nowhere to be found, either.

Cap picking up Mjolnir was just perfect.  I almost yelled "Its about time!" in the theater, lol.  Even better that Thor was happy for him.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Amethyst said:

If Steve and Tony took the Tesseract from 1970, how did the events of the first Avengers movie still happen the same way?  There wouldn't have been a Tesseract for Thanos or Loki to steal.

The time travel used in the movie has the past on a fixed timeline. So each time they traveled back in time they created a new timeline that branched off from the original timeline. If you think of the MCU timeline as a straight line there would now be a timeline that forks off of it in 1970 that includes Tony and Steve taking the Tesseract and a another timeline the forks off in 2012 where Loki steals the Tesseract, etc.  Each of the teams then used Tony’s device to return to the original timeline.

This only works if Steve created a new timeline where he lived with Peggy and then he somehow returned to the original timeline at some point off screen. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Guest

[Guest]

10 hours ago, revbfc said:

What did Dark World Thor do when he couldn’t find mjolnir?

It completely went over my head at the time but when Cap went back to return the stones he also had the hammer. Returning it was probably a lot easier than getting the reality stone back into Jane. 

[Anduin]

19 minutes ago, Dani said:

It completely went over my head at the time but when Cap went back to return the stones he also had the hammer. Returning it was probably a lot easier than getting the reality stone back into Jane. 

Article on some of the issues. Comments 1 & 12 are particularly funny. 12 discusses this.

[Vera]

This movie was interesting in what they did with the characters. Thoughts:

• Of the OG Avengers who survive. Tony moves on and has a life. Steve tries to help others move on but can't seem to do it himself. Natasha knows she is unable to move on and holds the fort for everyone. Bruce turns into Professor Hulk. Thor drowns in his sorrows out of a misplaced sense of guilt. Clint goes on a murdering spree.
• I don't have a problem with Tony's ending. He died a heroic death. In the interim 5 years, he married Pepper and had a child. The movie's devoted to his story. He's had multiple stories devoted to his issues. He's given a Hero's funeral, with the people he knew and many he didn't in attendance, every Avenger was there and a video to commemorate him. He has a legacy in both Peter and Morgan and one in Stark Industries. 
• Natasha's death pissed me off so much, it nearly distracted me from the rest of the movie. First, the choice was between her and Clint. So she was essentially fridged. This after they fridged Gamora in the previous movie. Did they learn nothing? Why were the two non-powered members of the team, who had never been off world sent off on their own to another planet? The optics of that scene where all the OG men sit around and lament Nat's death aside is so bad. When you compare it to the time spent on Tony post-death, it's worse. There isn't even a photograph of her placed somewhere. Without her death, there would be no soul stone.
• The all-women team up scene rang hollow for me in this one. It didn't feel earned. Four women were on those posters. Two are barely in it. One is fridged and one is used as the reason they nearly get decimated again. 
• After the snap, the Worlds's population give or take would have been about 3.5 billion, which would have increased to about 4 billion by 2030, if growth rates remain the same (My math might be off here). In the intervening 5 years, the world and its infrastructure would have acclimated to adjust to that population size. Then they drop back 3.5 Billion people in it. 
• We know people in the MCU have souls. So if they died and went to wherever souls go, does that mean bringing them back rips them out of there. Like how Willow bringing back Buffy, rips her from heaven and the happiness she has there. You know, through the entire movie, we were being sold that getting that 3.5 billion back was the right thing to do, but I felt uncomfortable. Maybe just with the general idea of bringing back people to life. 
• I've been thinking about this some more and I've come to the conclusion that I don't think Nat, Clint or Rhodey should have been able to travel to Morag and Steve shouldn't have been able to go back to the 70's. The movie takes the view that Time is linear so when each person travels to their past, they're actually just 'heading' to their future. But if that's true, then the characters shouldn't be able to travel to places they hadn't been to before.
• So the way the team up should have been IMO, is Thor, Rocket, and Nebula, heading back to their respective past at the same point of time, say September 2014. Thor to Asgard, Nebula to Morag and Rocket to wherever. Then they could have met up on Vormir and figure out a way to collect the Soul Stone. Tony, Steve, Nat, Clint, and Bruce should have gone back to 2012 for the Tesseract, Scepter and Time Stone. Three of them have undercover and stealth experience. Bruce's job remains the same.
• Also, when he goes back to return the stones to 2012, are there three Steves running about?
• Two separate instances of Clint murdering a bunch of Mexican people and a bunch of Japanese people (the optics of that entire scene in Japan were not great, to say the least). A white man, couldn't handle his grief so he goes on a killing spree of PoC

Edited April 27, 2019 by Vera

[Spartan Girl]

It still bugs me that the jerkass Secretary Ross was at the funeral. Granted, he was in the back where he belonged, but he was no friend to Tony or the Avengers.

The only way that would have worked is if Bruce confronted him in his Professor Hulk form: "You have no right to be here." And before Ross could spew his usual horseshit, Bruce cuts him off: "No, you listen to me. You will tear up the Accords and give us all pardons. You will award Tony and Natasha the Medal of Honor. And then you are going to resign from public life. And if none of those things happen in the next week, I will leak all the evidence I have about your involvement with Abomination, and then they'll put you in a hole so deep you'll never crawl out of."

That would have been awesome.

[Sakura12]

Maybe it would've worked better if Cap just sent the Shield back when Professor Hulk tried to bring him back. Then Bucky still feeling unworthy told Sam to pick up the Shield. Then we could've seen Steve dancing with Peggy in their home. We wouldn't get a final Steve speech but then we could just go with Cap's living in his life in a different universe. 

But then again time travel is always messy on tv shows and movies so I just go with it. It's the whole, not the hole that counts for me. This movie was a rollercoaster of emotions and I enjoyed every second of it for the characters. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Sakura12

[Wynterwolf]

3 hours ago, Dani said:

The time travel used in the movie has the past on a fixed timeline. So each time they traveled back in time they created a new timeline that branched off from the original timeline. If you think of the MCU timeline as a straight line there would now be a timeline that forks off of it in 1970 that includes Tony and Steve taking the Tesseract and a another timeline the forks off in 2012 where Loki steals the Tesseract. Each of the teams then used Tony’s device to return to the original timeline.

You know, Steve himself would also have created a branch when he told his younger self (who thought he was Loki) that Bucky was alive.  I could see that cascading into a lot of different choices for that Steve, and that isn't something you can undo.

The MultiVerse is Real.  

[Sakura12]

14 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

You know, Steve himself would also have created a branch when he told his younger self (who thought he was Loki) that Bucky was alive.  I could see that cascading into a lot of different choices for that Steve, and that isn't something you can undo.

The MultiVerse is Real.  

Didn't he touch him with the steptor erasing that Steve's memories?

[Wynterwolf]

42 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Didn't he touch him with the steptor erasing that Steve's memories?

Ah, I didn't remember that the scepter could erase memories, or that Steve knew how to operate it... that could be. 

But, the MultiVerse is still real, since I kinda doubt they're going to put PastThanos back.  

Edited April 27, 2019 by Wynterwolf

[Vera]

To return the stones, Steve would have to

• Find the Tesseract and put the Space Stone Back in it, then go to 1970 and put it back after Tony takes it. (Two Steves at this place)
• I didn't see him take the Scepter with him, but he'd have to still place the Mind Stone back on it, head to 2012 and put it back after his past self wipes out his past-past self's memory and runs of with it. (Three Steves here)
• He'd have to somehow desolidify the Reality Stone, head to 2014 Asgard and somehow put it back into Jane right after Rocket takes it out of her.
• Head to 2014 Morag and replace the Power Stone right after Nebula and Rhodey head back to 2023 and before Peter gets there. 
• He can just hand over the Time Stone to the Ancient One after Bruce disappears with it.
• He'd have to wait till Nat died and Clint took off with the Soul Stone and then give it back to the Red Skull? How does one return that stone?

[TigerLynx]

8 hours ago, ZoqFotPik said:

The state of Earth. Current world population is around 7.7 billion, so after the snap there would still be, give or take, 3.85 billion people left. That's the approximate population of 1970. No more Mets? 5 years later and there are still trash bags piling up on the sidewalks in San Francisco? What admittedly little we saw and heard about the world didn't seem to be consistent.

I thought it was only humans that were snapped away so there was a mean part of me that was like, "Well that kind of solved the over population problem we currently have.  Fewer humans is actually better for the environment and animals."

I wasn't all that sad about Tony or Natasha's deaths.  To many back from the dead characters has me thinking when Hollywood wants to make some money, they will bring them back.

This time around Thor was funnier than Tony.  Props to the actor for being willing to play and show an out of shape, fat, drunk Thor who had given up.

[Wynterwolf]

Here’s another article that speaks more specifically to how they short changed Steve and Bucky’s relationship (however you define it). 

I do kind of take perverse joy in the fact that the (world wide!) SteveBucky fandom is so strong they literally had to no-homo Steve all the way back to the 40’s, apparently abandoning his core beliefs on the way, and even then they still had to have Bucky give Steve his blessing on screen so everyone would know that IT’S OKAY!  SEE, EVEN BUCKY IS HAPPY FOR STEVE!, which is some seriously manipulative bullshit.  And it was literally Bucky’s only purpose for being in this movie.

But it’s also a powerful testament to what the CA trilogy accomplished.  And if SteveBucky opened a few more people’s eyes to the idea that same sex romantic pairings might actually be interesting and cool, and to be able to connect emotionally to them, then they served a great purpose (I mean hey, Russo’s character at Steve’s support group meeting did use male pronouns for his date, right?!?!?  RIGHT???!!!!).  

Seriously though, trying to pass that off as a consolation prize in exchange for reducing even Steve and Bucky’s platonic/familial friendship over the course of their life time to 30 seconds and a couple of stock lines (and not even the important lines, because they couldn’t even acknowledge those exist and still make that ending work) after everything they’ve been through together, because it might be construed as ‘gay’ by someone watching, frankly just doesn’t cut it.

This ending to Steve’s arc doesn’t change or tarnish anything that happened prior, though.  It’s frustrating, and infuriating and… a lot of other things, but I think there was some real progress made (in spite of some people desperately trying to put the genie back in the bottle, and I would bet dollars to donuts this is why we don’t get Steve and Bucky content in the deleted scenes on the DVDs) and so long as we’re moving forward, I’m gonna accept that as a positive. 

But everyone has to be allowed to process this in their own way.  Whatever people are feeling is valid, don’t let anyone tell you differently.

[Dee]

Falcon & Bucky are rumored to be working to stop the rogue government implemented Captain America replacement.

Nick, Sharon & Maria (Hill) are supposed to be involved as supporting characters.

[Apprentice79]

I am intrigue about what happened in Wakanda without a king for 5 years. A series on that would be interesting.  It could be a nice Segue before Black Panther2 arrives. 

1 hour ago, Wynterwolf said:

But it’s also a powerful testament to what the CA trilogy accomplished.  And if SteveBucky opened a few more people’s eyes to the idea that same sex romantic pairings might actually be interesting and cool, and to be able to connect emotionally to them, then they served a great purpose (I mean hey, Russo’s character at Steve’s support group meeting did use male pronouns for his date, right?!?!?  RIGHT???!!!!).  

I guess my fantasy of Steve living anonymously in Wakanda with Bucky as the White wolf will never happen. Since we now have multiverse in the MCU, perhaps they are doing just that. 

[Wynterwolf]

1 minute ago, Apprentice79 said:

I guess my fantasy of Steve living anonymously in Wakanda with Bucky as the White wolf will never happen. Since we now have multiverse in the MCU, perhaps they are doing just that. 

I have absolutely no doubt!  

One of the fake spoilers that was floating around right before the movie officially dropped was that Steve joined the Asgardians to help them rebuild their home, I would have loved that for him!  And Bucky could have split his time between there and his duties with Cap!Sam, the way Steve did when Bucky was recovering in Wakanda.  

[Twilight Man]

20 hours ago, bettername2come said:

.Okay, my big question - so did everybody in Peter’s grade get snapped? Because it looks like all of them are still in high school for in the Far From Home trailer. And they made it clear the five years have really passed.

By "everybody" you, of course, mean the 4-5 kids that hang out with Peter all the time.   Seeing that there are approx.  30 kids in each class, that means approx.  half of the kids in each class got affected, so that means approx.  12-18 kids (give or take) got affected so, yeah, the 5 or so kids that hang out with Peter also got affected is entirely possible.

I would like to see them complaining how "so-and-so" is already graduating college while "WE" are still in high school.

PS.   The scenes with Happy talking to Pete in the preview NOW have more meaning.  Much like how Happy had a quick scene with Tony's daughter, it appears that Happy is trying to "help" and "be a mentor" to Peter now that TONY IS DEAD.

[TigerLynx]

2 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

I do kind of take perverse joy in the fact that the (world wide!) SteveBucky fandom is so strong they literally had to no-homo Steve all the way back to the 40’s, apparently abandoning his core beliefs on the way, and even then they still had to have Bucky give Steve his blessing on screen so everyone would know that IT’S OKAY!  SEE, EVEN BUCKY IS HAPPY FOR STEVE!, which is some seriously manipulative bullshit.  And it was literally Bucky’s only purpose for being in this movie.

Steve and Bucky were friends.  Great, genuine friends.  Peggy was Steve's romantic interest in the first Captain America movie, and Bucky was his friend.  Why would Steve being romantically involved with Bucky make Bucky more important?  Friendships count to.

I think I would have liked it better if instead of doing a reset, there were very significant problems throughout the universe (actually shown), that needed to be addressed, but they couldn't do so by time travel.  Instead they had to figure out a way to go forward and fix things instead of just snap and bring people back.

While Thanos' death the first time was boring, I thought he deserved that lame ending.  After all his schemes and killing, he gets his head chopped off in a complete non-battle, and the people left alive fix the damage and chaos he created.  Living well is the best revenge.

I didn't like the combo Banner/Hulk either.

As much as I liked Spock and Leonard Nimoy, and enjoyed some of the Star Trek movies after Star Trek 2, Spock dying was a great scene and earned.  I was a little disappointed it was undone.  The remake/reverse with Kahn where Spock/Kirk switch did not feel earned at all, and I like Zachary Quinto as Spock.  Also, Ricardo Montablan as Kahn was still hot as hell 20 years later, and I liked the continuity nod to an Original TV Series Star Trek episode.

If Steve turns up alive in Wonder Woman, I am going to be annoyed.

Edited April 27, 2019 by TigerLynx

[MrsRafaelBarba]

The Avengers Assemble scene was EVERYTHING!

Even Pepper suited up.

Some fans are bitching about it, but I was fine with that..

Don't think we'll ever see anything that EPIC in a Superhero film again.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

2 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

I do kind of take perverse joy in the fact that the (world wide!) SteveBucky fandom is so strong they literally had to no-homo Steve all the way back to the 40’s, apparently abandoning his core beliefs on the way, and even then they still had to have Bucky give Steve his blessing on screen so everyone would know that IT’S OKAY!  SEE, EVEN BUCKY IS HAPPY FOR STEVE!, which is some seriously manipulative bullshit.  And it was literally Bucky’s only purpose for being in this movie.

Well, good Lord, let's at least cover both sides of the issue. The worldwide Steve/Bucky fandom is strong, so strong that they pissed all over Emily VanCamp (and Hayley Atwell, who should know better, egged them on) because they don't think anyone else is good enough for Cap. Which...fine, they can feel how they want, but Sharon Carter is only the worst offender in that she and Steve kissed for five seconds and a building didn't fall on her head. That they chose to take it out on the actress isn't because they want representation or because they're more forward thinking than people who "want" Steve to be straight.

Though judging by this:

https://comicbook.com/marvel/2019/04/19/avengers-endgame-captain-america-chris-evans-bucky-chants-peggy-carter/?fbclid=IwAR3ZXO-62seHpWi-QwMzB6t2gRNFJwN-xX1YJKlvFGP_Ue3rg4j1VDvm_hM

I expect the Twitter crowd hates Atwell quite a lot right now. She "stole" their dream from them, after all, and they thought she was on their side.

[Sakura12]

I don't think it was manipulative, they never showed Steve being interested in men. His love interest was Peggy and by relation to Peggy, Sharon. So basically always Peggy.  There are  shippers for every pairing imaginable, so there is no way writers can please everyone. That's why I don't invest in ships anymore because what I see and I want isn't what everyone else sees and wants.

On another note, Endgame is already at 156.7 million for Thursday night and Friday,

Edited April 27, 2019 by Sakura12

[Spartan Girl]

11 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I don't think it was manipulative, they never showed Steve being interested in men. His love interest was Peggy and by relation to Peggy, Sharon. So basically always Peggy.  There are  shippers for every pairing imaginable, so there is no way writers can please everyone. That's why I don't invest in ships anymore because what I see and I want isn't what everyone else sees and wants.

To be fair, Steve was attracted to Sharon back when she was posing as Neighbor Kate, long before he knew she was Sharon's niece.

[Sakura12]

Just now, Spartan Girl said:

To be fair, Steve was attracted to Sharon back when she was posing as Neighbor Kate, long before he knew she was Sharon's niece.

True, but I took that as she subconsciously reminded him of Peggy. Because I mean the first woman he showed interest in happened to be Peggy's niece. 

[Dee]

‘Avengers: Endgame’ To Near Rare Breakeven Point With $1.1B Global Opening

Quote

With an estimated global opening weekend on course for $1.1 billion, Disney Avengers: Endgame will make what most successful superhero movies earn in a theatrical lifetime. At this level, film finance experts tell Deadline that the Anthony and Joe Russo-directed sequel will near cash breakeven tomorrow on Sunday, which is unheard of for a major studio tentpole during its opening weekend. Last year, the duo’s Avengers: Infinity War clicked into profitability after ten days.

While it’s still early, our sources believe that a final worldwide endgame well north of $2B, closer to $2.5B for Endgame isn’t out of the question. Only four films have cleared that mark: Avatar ($2.79B), Titanic ($2.19B), Star Wars: Force Awakens ($2.07B), and Infinity War ($2.05B). Endgame‘s domestic B.O. is poised to lie at greater than $750M.

[anna0852]

My Disney stock is going to go through the roof. 

[starri]

20 hours ago, Traveller519 said:

Rudd could deliver as needed (No Ant-Puns though)

Rhodey called him a "piss-Ant" at one point.

Astonishingly, I left the theater basically completely satisfied.  I suppose there were things that could have been done better, but I think what I liked the most is that the majority of it was...quiet.  Up until the big battle, almost everything was character stuff.  I was surprising non-teary for a lot of the film, but "Proof that Tony Stark has a heart" finally pushed me over the edge.

One of the more delightful surprises was seeing Pepper in her Rescue armor.  I didn't know I had been waiting for that for ten years.  There was a little girl in the audience that squealed and clapped her hands when Okoye and all the other women showed up to back up Carol, and if I'm honest, I wasn't that far from joining in.  

Time travel in Marvel Comics has basically worked exactly the way Bruce and Nebula explained it.  My thought about Steve's ending is that he returned the stone, found his way back to Peggy, had a full life with her, and then used his gizmo to come back to the MCU-proper to hand Sam the shield.  

When Brie Larson was doing press for Captain Marvel, she did one of those Wired Auto-Complete interview, and one of the questions involved her cutting her hair.  She said something like "I'm thinking about it," and I can't help but wonder that she was talking about her 'do here.

I'm surprised so few blogs have talked about Joe Russo's cameo as the gay guy who talked about his first post-Snap date in Steve's group.  I know from a distance, it's utter tokenism, but OTOH, our window into how all the regular people in the MCU are dealing with things is through the eyes of a gay man was surprisingly meaningful.  I also somehow knew he was talking about another man before he dropped the pronoun.

Some of the cameos shocked me.  I mean, I expected a few, but the Ancient One, Frigga, Korg?  All delightful.  Even the non-speaking ones, like Janet and Ramonda.  

I am SO glad I worked so hard to avoid spoilers.

[Morrigan2575]

Just saw it. Will go back and read posts after I recover a bit. That was a beautiful homage to the last 10 years. Chris Evans was right they stuck the landing. It was a very satisfying ending to Phase 1-3. 

I'm happy Steve got his HEA although I'm going to live in denial until 5 years from now about getting my Cap and Logan War Movie. Cap lived through the 50-70s!

I'm convinced Loki is still alive, he stole the tesseract in 2012! 

I was happily surprised that Vision and Gamora stayed dea. We also lost Nat (very surprised) and Tony (not surprising and seems fitting). Tony's death was very sad but, it seems right, it started with Iron Man and he closed out Phase 3. RDJ pretty much created this universe 

Best Hell Yeah Moment!? Cap picking up Mjolnir, I always knew he was worthy, saw it back in Ultron.

PS - that movie wrecked me in the best way possible. 

Just went through the thread, all this talk of MCU going multiverse with Endgame. Is that how they bring FF and X-Men in? Maybe post next Avengers movie?

Edited April 27, 2019 by Morrigan2575

[Sandman]

On 12/7/2018 at 12:41 PM, coppersin said:

Before we got the official title, I was referring to this movie as Avengers: Hold Me While I Cry.

Still works.

I saw it this morning, and in lieu of formulating anything like a more coherent comment, now I'm just going to sit here and hyperventilate for a while. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Sandman

[Lugal]

After taking a day to digest this there are some more things that come to mind.

- Don Cheadle stole a lot of scenes, and his delivery was perfect.  From watching Quill dance with "So he's an idiot." His response to Thor's "You know what flows through my veins?"  "Cheez-whiz?"  Just have to give him props.

- Tony calls Thor Lebowski, and I realized his first enemy (Ironmonger/Jeff Bridges) was Lebowski.

- The time travel (yes I think about this a lot).  Steve fixed most of it, returning the stones and the hammer (I hope there's a montage in the deleted scenes) the main problems are Loki escaping, different Gamoras, Nebula killing herself, Thanos disappearing from 2014, and Steve in the past.  I assume Loki will be explained on his Disney+ series, Gamora and Nebula in the next GOTG.  Not sure about Thanos, but Steve, I'm assuming just laid low and tried to to interact with History.  Although the Ancient One is still there and has the time stone, so maybe she helped out?  I still think they'll use some of the ripples to bring the X-men and FF into the MCU.

- Anyone else want a scene of Natasha and Gamora hanging out in the soul stone?  Also curious for Steve's meeting with the Red Skull to put the soul stone back.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Lugal
stupid autocorrect

[Sandman]

15 hours ago, ZoqFotPik said:

1. Sucks to be Jamie Alexander and Stellan Skarsgård.

Wait -- didn't I see the Lady Sif?

[Sandman]

9 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

The only way that would have worked is if Bruce confronted him in his Professor Hulk form: "You have no right to be here." And before Ross could spew his usual horseshit, Bruce cuts him off: "No, you listen to me. You will tear up the Accords and give us all pardons. You will award Tony and Natasha the Medal of Honor. And then you are going to resign from public life. And if none of those things happen in the next week, I will leak all the evidence I have about your involvement with Abomination, and then they'll put you in a hole so deep you'll never crawl out of."

That would have been awesome.

This is now officially my headcanon. Ain't nobody can tell me it happened any other way.

[mary2013]

8 hours ago, Vera said:

To return the stones, Steve would have to

• Find the Tesseract and put the Space Stone Back in it, then go to 1970 and put it back after Tony takes it. (Two Steves at this place)
• I didn't see him take the Scepter with him, but he'd have to still place the Mind Stone back on it, head to 2012 and put it back after his past self wipes out his past-past self's memory and runs of with it. (Three Steves here)
• He'd have to somehow desolidify the Reality Stone, head to 2014 Asgard and somehow put it back into Jane right after Rocket takes it out of her.
• Head to 2014 Morag and replace the Power Stone right after Nebula and Rhodey head back to 2023 and before Peter gets there. 
• He can just hand over the Time Stone to the Ancient One after Bruce disappears with it.
• He'd have to wait till Nat died and Clint took off with the Soul Stone and then give it back to the Red Skull? How does one return that stone?

The rule for the soul stone was "a soul for a soul".  When Steve returned the soul stone, shouldn't he have received a soul back?  Was I the only one expecting Nat to come back with Steve at the end?

[Wynterwolf]

5 minutes ago, mary2013 said:

Was I the only one expecting Nat to come back with Steve at the end?

I hadn't thought of that, but that would have been awesome!  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, mary2013 said:

The rule for the soul stone was "a soul for a soul".  When Steve returned the soul stone, shouldn't he have received a soul back?  Was I the only one expecting Nat to come back with Steve at the end?

I thought they same thing. I actually would have loved if the ending was Nat appearing with the shield when they expected Cap. Steve choosing to live in the past to allow Nat to return in his place would have been more in keeping with his character. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Guest

[Wynterwolf]

7 minutes ago, Dani said:

Steve choosing to live in the past to allow Nat to return in his place would have been more in keeping with his character.

I think they both should have been able to come back, though, wouldn't they?  Since she was already outfitted with all the time travel gear?

And wait... did they explain where the repaired shield came from?  I didn't catch that...

[Dee]

Missing In Action

• Nakia
• Selvig
• Lady Sif
• Mordo
• Helen Cho
• Betty Ross
• Heimdall
• Vision
• Pietro
• Monica & Maria Rambeau
• Ava & Bill
• Paxton/Maggie
• Luis/Dave/Kurt
• The Collector/The Grandmaster
• Howard The Duck

Edited April 27, 2019 by Dee

[SnoGirl]

I think I’m in mourning. I feel like I just finished the last book in a series and I’m so damn sad its over.

I was dreading this movie, not because it was the end, but because I truly hate Time Travel stories. My brain cannot turn off the ways it can’t work. And I really didn’t want them to undo all the Marvel Movies to defeat Thanos.

That being said-this truly was an epic film. I was mostly unspoiled (heard about Little Stark) and I’m glad I was. All of the callbacks, the music, the choices of the characters, I loved it all.

Nat’s death was heartbreaking. Her character has had such incredibly growth, and for her to fight it out to save Clint, just like in the first Avengers movie where she fought to save him damn near broke me in the theater. I cried. I knew what was going to happen at Vormir but I had a hope it wasn’t going to end that way. I really wanted Nat to be the next leader of the Avengers-I really thought she was safe.

Tony and Steve. Gah. I am really sad about both of them. Loved that Steve FINALLY picked up Mjolnir. As soon as past Thor grabbed it, I couldn't help myself, I said “Yes!” out loud. I knew they were going to have Steve be able to use it. I also loved him standing back up after getting his ass kicked by Thanos, to only hear Sam’s voice “On your left.” I cried here too, part of me wishes we had seen the mad scramble to get everyone to New York. I don’t blame Steve for his choice to find Peggy. I’ve already seen theories to how it wouldn’t disrupt the timelines. What bums me out is he left behind his Avenger’s family-he left behind Bucky. Steve fought so hard to save him...that bums me out. I was hoping Steve would hang up the Shield and help establish new Asgard, since him and Thor were so similar. Then Bucky and Same could visit him whenever and we might get a sneak of him on their show. Plus, I thought Steve was going to have aging issues. 

Tony. Tony Tony Tony. I love that he adapted his gauntlet to be able to take the stones. You know he must have thought of that during his 22 days in space-how could he have gotten the stones from Thanos quicker. Tony’s super power is definitely adaptability. If only he had the time to figure out how to siphon the radiation from the stones. Too bad Danvers couldn’t have helped out in that moment. I wanted Tony to have his life. 

Chris Hemsworth blew my mind. He was really messed up. And it was completely understandable. His conversation with Frigga broke my heart again (that happened a lot in this movie). I’m surprised he never asked for his shipmates, Loki or Heimdall to be saved in the snap. We saw more Asgardians right? 

Truthfully, the one thing I didn't like was Banner/Hulk. No thanks, I liked the dueling personalities. Plus, does that mean the monster us gone? Because I liked him, especially at Raganok. Bummer.

Loved all the other moments. It makes me sad that Strange knew Tony was going to die. He saved him from Thanos the first time to have him bested by the Stones, but saving everyone else. Loved Nebula. Sad Gamora we knew is forever lost to the Stone.

I loved Scarlet Witch taking on Thanos. She too, like Widow, has shown tremendous growth. Too bad Danvers hadn’t gotten there a moment earlier. Scarlett Witch and Captain Marvel would have taken down Thanos together-no question.

Speaking of Captain Marvel, they definitely used her just the right amount. This was definitely the Original Avengers’ story, but I still loved the moments we got of her. Loved the haircut, loved “Hi Peter Parker.”  

I’m sad. I can’t believe this is the end. Truthfully, I would have been 100% fine with the original Avengers riding off into the sunset-alive-together. Whatever it takes was just a little too much.