S11.E07: Kerblam!

[springbarb]

2 hours ago, clack said:

Some nitpicks : if only the lucky 10% have jobs, and if even those few are paid poorly -- who then is buying all those deliveries?

Yeah, I had that issue, too--I got the feeling that getting a Kerblam package was something special, but that means that it can't really also be as ubiquitous as Amazon deliveries.

19 hours ago, LiveenLetLive said:

Yeah this episode was about as subtle as the NotTrump one--I don't suppose that the audience would NOT conflate Kerblam with Amazon eh? It was OK, not great like last week's IMO, but fine as a filler episode, there were some pretty funny lines and I like to laugh so that scored points with me, I especially liked Twirrly taking measure of the always frantic Doctor and suggesting that she browse blood pressure meds (hahaha, middle aged folk joke.)

I didn't think this episode was particularly hard on Amazon; it was a knock on automation, but it could've come down a LOT harder on the many problems that Amazon has that have nothing to do with automation.

As far as the blood pressure meds, I assumed that was because at that moment, it was an emergency, so the Doctor's heart rates were up.

[Eulipian 5k]

The 11th did get a package/message from the Corsair in "The Doctor's Wife" but he opened the TARDIS door for it to come in. He wasn't apprehensive then either, even though that was a trappy S.O.S.

[Bruinsfan]

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Doesn't the Tardis stop all weapons from entering. So the bubble wrap has to be safe. Pop away, Graham!

 

37 minutes ago, benteen said:

I was surprised that the Kerblam robot was actually able to get through the Tardis itself.  That is virtually an impossible thing to do.  Generally when those doors are closed, you cannot get them open from the outside.

Someone managed to do it in "Bad Wolf" during Eccleston's run, but the Doctor said the transmat beam was 15 million times more powerful than normal to snatch targets from inside the TARDIS. I think usually that sort of thing is in the province of Time Lord technology.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Bruinsfan

[j5cochran]

2 hours ago, clack said:

Some nitpicks : if only the lucky 10% have jobs, and if even those few are paid poorly -- who then is buying all those deliveries?

. . . .

Ten percent of those working in the Kerblam plant must be organics. That was a law passed by the authorities of Kandoka, the planet that the Kerblam moon circles. The implication is that unemployment is high on the planet, but that is never explicitly stated.

But Kerblam delivers to the entire galaxy (the entire universe?), not just Kandoka.  That's why the Doctor knows about them and is so excited to receive a package from them. 

[AudienceofOne]

8 hours ago, Llywela said:

But why? We saw the postmen robots attacking Lee Mack's character - programmed to do so, perhaps, but for what purpose? 

He reprogrammed the robots. They only worked when he diverted energy to shut down the system. So he took control of a unit or two and the system couldn't stop him because of the power brownout. Then he used them to test the explosive. 

4 hours ago, The Companion said:

He said he use them to test the bubble wrap bombs, didn't he? 

Yes

1 hour ago, benteen said:

I was surprised that the Kerblam robot was actually able to get through the Tardis itself.  That is virtually an impossible thing to do.  Generally when those doors are closed, you cannot get them open from the outside.

Eleven ordered a Fez from Kerblam and said "when the delivery bot shows up, let it through" and the TARDIS did. TARDIS isn't going to care that was two regenerations ago (although probably only a few days in that timezone). 

[Eulipian 5k]

But really, isn't "KerBlam!" the sound (onomatopoeia) of an explosion in comic books? It's like naming a beer Barf!

[AnimeMania]

2 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

But really, isn't "KerBlam!" the sound (onomatopoeia) of an explosion in comic books? It's like naming a beer Barf!

I think it is usually spelled Kablam and is usually the sound made when you slam your hand on a table like when smashing a bug.

There is also Kaboom that is usually the sound made when there is an explosion in comic books.

[phalange]

Aw, Thirteen was so happy about the Fez. Fez's are still cool, obviously. 

I laughed when the supervisor told the Doctor he'd be writing her up after she defended Kira, and she says she'll add it to her collection. I love when the Doctor gets snarky. The current Kerblam! delivery robots do look kind of creepy, but Twirly was cute. I'd much rather get a delivery from that one. And I'd definitely be screwed, because I always pop the bubble wrap. 

Good misdirection, having Charlie bond with Graham and showing his crush on Kira so he'd seem like another innocent human. I appreciate a twist to the "technology is taking over" story. 

[HouseofBeck]

On 11/18/2018 at 5:57 PM, MarquisDeCarabas said:

Something I just realised, the system put The Doctor in maintenance with Charlie before she switched it. It was trying to show her where the danger was. 

Thats a really nice touch. I kinda wondered why the system thought the best use of the Doctor’s talents would be janitorial work. 

That's a great point that I completely didn't remember.

22 hours ago, CatWarmer said:

I’m wondering how the system knew to send the red fez. It certainly made The Doctor happy though. I liked that little touch of continuity; what were others? I’m sure I noticed something but it slipped out of my memory.

We are certainly a long way from the scope of all of space and time. 

Amazon gave my son a very nice engineering job last year and he’s doing quite well, so no badmouthing!  No robots taking the place of organics as far as I know,although he won’t give me any details about his next team....

 

I kept thinking of the Amazon distribution centers instead, though that still isn't a direct match with Kerblam! (ETA: Lots of problems I decided not to go into.)

I really loved this episode and didn't expect to be in a perceived minority. I wasn't futzing with my phone during it, I was interested in the plotline, good winding suspense, and I want a Twirly. Good pacing, Graham had the best character lines but this time Ryan had more than usual, and Yaz had some good interaction even as she took a back seat.

I thought something was up with Charlie as when he heard Graham had been assigned to his job, his face momentarily flickered with discomfort. Not the reaction you'd expect from someone taking care of a huge complex all on his own. I was still swayed by the red herrings, though, especially as Charlie seemed so helpful to the cause. It was just the wrong cause!

And Graham making the decision for the Doctor to get them all to safety as Charlie was just not going to move in time was solid. The Doctor always wants to save everybody.

Bubble wrap: Would like to think the TARDIS scrubbed it of detonatey qualities.

Throwbacks in my mind: Robots of Death, and another Tom Baker, Revenge of the Cybermen, but only because there the transmat was supposed to separate out diseases/other anomalies and that's how Sarah Jane got cured after being bitten by a Cybermat. Thinking that bubble wrap properties would similarly be vanquished, but evidently that wasn't the case. :)

Edited November 20, 2018 by HouseofBeck

[Mabinogia]

7 minutes ago, HouseofBeck said:

I thought something was up with Charlie as when he heard Graham had been assigned to his job, his face momentarily flickered with discomfort.

I hadn't even thought of that. I saw the flicker and at the time just chalked it up to socially awkward and has been alone for so long he's just used to it. But yeah, that must have thrown him when Graham showed up. I wonder if it made him rush the job a little. Maybe get a little sloppy. 

I was totally shocked when Charlie turned out to be the bad guy. Even though both Management people said it wasn't them, I was still expecting that one of them was lying and doing it all. I did like that it was the system that called the Doctor, that the robots weren't evil, they were just being used, and that the show really did manage to surprise me with the villain. 

it was a fun episode. I actually appreciate Chibnall's take on humans pretty much being the bad guys this season rather than aliens. It would have been easy to make this a technology takes over and turns humans into slaves story but that's been done. This was interesting. And very true. Basically Charlie was a terrorist. Using sacrificial murder to destroy his enemy. 

I thing making all the robot mailmen activate the bubble wrap bombs (which seriously, genius idea. Who in their right mind isn't going to pop bubble wrap? It's basic human instinct!) because she couldn't guarantee delivery to an unmanned location, and leaving that many bombs just waiting to go off isn't safe. It was just safer to detonate them all. The robots, in this particular world, seemed to not be at all sentient so I am not that worked up about it. Their "mind/soul" is the system and that is intact. Only their vessels were destroyed. 

[tessaray]

On 11/18/2018 at 6:41 PM, clack said:

DW was once world-class sci-fi.

'Kerblam!' was ok for a Sarah Jane Adventures episode, but the crude CGI, amateurish acting, and the unsophisticated one-to-one allegories  (Kerblam = Amazon) are just not good enough in a world that now contains multiple quality sci-fi TV shows.

Moffat had his flaws, god knows, but he knew how to work an idea, to develop a concept by combining it with other ideas and images. Chibnall's naive science fictional ideas (giant spiders produced by pollution!) are those of one who is new to science fiction.

Aww... you say that like it's a bad thing. I loved SJA.

Really though, Doctor Who started out as a children's show and is still a family show.  The 8-10 year old has always been its target audience.  I'm not sure it was ever world class scifi, though obviously mileage varies.   

I will agree that the spider episode was a mess production-wise. 

[Llywela]

It is funny to see the 'SJA' label being thrown at the show, like that's a bad thing - as I recall, while SJA was on-air, a lot of Doctor Who fans preferred it to the overblown melodrama of the parent show!

What goes around comes around. Every era of the show has its own individual strengths and weaknesses - heaven knows I disagreed with a lot of Moffat's choices, and have my differences with a fair bit of what Davies did, as well, while also enjoying the respective strengths of their eras. This new era feels a bit jarring to us because it is very different than the last, and that kind of change can take quite a bit of getting used to. Plus this new team is still settling down and finding its feet - most of the writers this season are completely new to Who, and so are still exploring their voices and the genre. It isn't perfect, but having that totally fresh take on the show is a good thing. It is what the show needed. I might have hoped the new season would find its feet and its strength a little faster than this, but I am still enjoying what a breath of fresh air it is, having felt that the show had fallen into a deep rut over the last few years.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Llywela

[angora]

My favorite bit was the perfect look of silent disappointment on the Doctor's face when they were told they weren't allowed to climb onto the conveyor belts.

So the system was trying to stop Charlie from carrying out his evil plan, but one of the ways it tried to do that was by killing Kyra?  Certainly not "innocent" then.  If it was willing to go that far, why not just kill Charlie instead?  (I know the one robot tried, but it could've tried again when he wasn't surrounded by people who could help him.)  That definitely sours the episode for me, that Kyra is killed more for maintaining the surprise of the twist than for any logical story reason.

In terms of using the whole main cast, I thought this was one of the best episodes so far.  I liked Ryan using his past factory experience (and being open about his dyspraxia,) Graham figuring out how to get the plans the Doctor wanted, and Yaz going looking for Dan and then getting away from the robots when they surrounded her.  Also, them all chiming in on the psychic paper "reference" from the First Lady of wherever was really fun.

[Mabinogia]

23 minutes ago, angora said:

My favorite bit was the perfect look of silent disappointment on the Doctor's face when they were told they weren't allowed to climb onto the conveyor belts.

I love that 13 is like this big kid who is excited by everything.  I really want to be her BFF. She seems like so much fun to hang out with, even without the space and time travel. 

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

Anybody keeping up with this season's ratings ?  Since this season's premier, the ratings have been slipping(at least on BBCAmerica) .  Will be interesting to see if the ratings can come up & if BBCAmerica wants to continue running the show in the states. 

[starri]

I was expecting the Doctor to say she was disappointed she didn't get to join Ryan and Yaz on the conveyors.  I certainly felt shortchanged on her behalf.

[Pattycake2]

I enjoyed the episode until the ending.  Then,  I just shook my head.  Sweet Charlie turns into an evil technological mastermind willing to kill thousands.   Uh, huh.  I’m definitely missing some complexity in this season, but it’s not going to happen.

[Eulipian 5k]

It must be said that that Team Tardis are the worst factory workers in the galaxy! All that lollygagging and standing around talking can't be productive or get packages to all the anxious little Kiras out there. Even Lucille Ball would fire Yaz for her conveyor belt skills.

[DanaK]

I enjoyed this episode much better after several more viewings. Some further thoughts:

There were a lot of nice world building touches throughout the script so that you had a pretty decent idea what the societal problems were. It was never made explicit when this takes place, but based on background announcements it's a human colony (possibly people from Earth) and with Twirrly being 200 years out of date, at least 200 years in the future.

Besides the cuteness of the Doctor being disappointed that she couldn't ride a conveyor belt, notice that she wore a worker vest without taking off her coat. She loves that thing

I'm still bothered by the episode basically glossing over the fact that the system killed Kira. Sure, the system was fighting back against Charlie killing workers, but it basically committed murder too and no one called it on it

Even after what Charlie did, the Doctor (and Graham) still tried to give him a chance to live

Notice the difference between the Doctor's very happy attitude toward Kerblam at the beginning of the episode and her very weary recitation of the company slogan (after several seconds of heavy breathing) after they had transported out of the exploding area

Did you notice at the end that while the place will be shut down for a month, the workers were getting only 2 weeks of paid leave?

Edited November 21, 2018 by DanaK

[call me ishmael]

1 hour ago, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

Anybody keeping up with this season's ratings ?  Since this season's premier, the ratings have been slipping(at least on BBCAmerica) .  Will be interesting to see if the ratings can come up & if BBCAmerica wants to continue running the show in the states. 

Here's some perspective:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjInPOwxeTeAhXPITQIHfHFANoQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwegotthiscovered.com%2Ftv%2Fheres-real-story-doctor-whos-supposedly-declining-ratings%2F&psig=AOvVaw0jcONqWajn4cqJf1BXaMF6&ust=1542857277332712&cshid=1542770871771

[DanaK]

2 hours ago, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

Anybody keeping up with this season's ratings ?  Since this season's premier, the ratings have been slipping(at least on BBCAmerica) .  Will be interesting to see if the ratings can come up & if BBCAmerica wants to continue running the show in the states. 

Beside what call me said, here are the final viewing numbers of the first few episodes for the BBC, per Doctor Who News:

The Woman Who Fell to Earth: 10.9 million viewers; most watched program of the week

The Ghost Monument: 9 million viewers; 4th most watched program of the week

Rosa: 8.37 million viewers; 4th most watched program of the week

Arachnids in the UK: 8.22 million viewers; 4th most watched program of the week

The Tsuranga Conundrum: 7.76 million viewers; 6th most watched program of the week

Demons of the Punjab: 7.48 million viewers; 8th most watched program of the week

It seems to be doing relatively well in total viewership and against other programming and the previous article suggested it's doing fine against previous seasons (though I don't know if ratings are declining a lot year to year as they are in the US)

[DanaK]

3 hours ago, angora said:

Also, them all chiming in on the psychic paper "reference" from the First Lady of wherever was really fun.

This is the second time the psychic paper has been used this season as far as I can tell, but they never explain it. They seem to want the audience to figure out from the context of the episode that it's some kind of special id or something

[Eulipian 5k]

11 hours ago, DanaK said:

This is the second time the psychic paper has been used this season as far as I can tell, but they never explain it.

It seems every Doctor has used the Psychic paper so many know about it. It relies on the reader to imagine what the paper should say to get him/her! past the gate keeper. "Oh you 're from the head office, step right in". It's like a "written" Jedi-mind trick. If they had more time they would have had Yaz asking the Doctor for your explanation.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Eulipian 5k
they want more Yaz

[isalicat]

Wow - this is the first time I have ever watched an episode of Doctor Who and almost immediately thereafter could not remember much about it...other than, oh yeah, Amazon. I still really like the current incarnation of the Doctor but the writing is thoroughly mediocre. Is it being intentionally dumbed down? So disappointing.

Go back and watch "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances" and tell me that this is the same show.

[Llywela]

4 minutes ago, isalicat said:

Go back and watch "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances" and tell me that this is the same show.

Go back a bit further and watch The Happiness Patrol. It is definitely the same show, just in a different iteration currently. It's been 55 years and counting of peaks and troughs. This current season may not be the best, but it also isn't the worst. Do I wish the writing were stronger? Yes. Can I live with it? Also yes.

But like I said, horses for courses - we are always all going to react differently to different eras of the show. That's just the nature of the beast.

[HauntedBathroom]

2 hours ago, isalicat said:

Wow - this is the first time I have ever watched an episode of Doctor Who and almost immediately thereafter could not remember much about it...other than, oh yeah, Amazon. I still really like the current incarnation of the Doctor but the writing is thoroughly mediocre. Is it being intentionally dumbed down? So disappointing.

Go back and watch "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances" and tell me that this is the same show.

Almost every episode this season has left no memory. It's like they're made of teflon, they just don't stick.

[Dobian]

On 11/18/2018 at 1:37 PM, Ceindreadh said:

I'm not sure why the Doctor had all the robots deliberately detonate.  Since she was able to override their destination instructions and tell them to open the box, could she not just as easily had them remove the wrapping without popping it (a near impossible task for humans of course) and just collect it for later disposals. 

She didn't have to kill them all. 

I figured she was going to give them the coordinates of an active volcano on some distant planet, lol.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

22 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

Here's some perspective:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjInPOwxeTeAhXPITQIHfHFANoQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwegotthiscovered.com%2Ftv%2Fheres-real-story-doctor-whos-supposedly-declining-ratings%2F&psig=AOvVaw0jcONqWajn4cqJf1BXaMF6&ust=1542857277332712&cshid=1542770871771

Here's a funny video on youtube. I don't know how to link it here, but you can do a search on youtube.   Search as     Doctor Who ratings hit rock bottom  cancelled? 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎18‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 9:37 PM, Ceindreadh said:

I'M NEVER BURSTING ANOTHER BUBBLE WRAP AGAIN!!!

Oh who am I kidding, I'll take my chances!

I'm not sure why the Doctor had all the robots deliberately detonate.  Since she was able to override their destination instructions and tell them to open the box, could she not just as easily had them remove the wrapping without popping it (a near impossible task for humans of course) and just collect it for later disposals. 

She didn't have to kill them all. 

Really? I still keep my eyes on Angel statues at all times!

On ‎19‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 1:58 AM, ElleryAnne said:

An ok episode, but Kerblamazon's robots seemed like cheap knockoffs of the angel robots in Voyage of the Damned.

Which in turn rather reminded me of the Androids of Death?

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎19‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 2:34 AM, benteen said:

have There was stuff I liked about it.  A fun premise and an episode that really reminded me of the RTD days.  I liked the robots and the various continuity references.  But again, we have an unmemorable human villain and one barely thought out.  But there was definitely some good stuff here.

Actually I liked it that the villain was the Luddite cleaner, we're so conditioned to the bad guys being the executives that it was a shock when they weren't. 

On ‎19‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 6:19 PM, benteen said:

I was surprised that the Kerblam robot was actually able to get through the Tardis itself.  That is virtually an impossible thing to do.  Generally when those doors are closed, you cannot get them open from the outside.

Has happened before, The Greatest Show in the Galaxy. Besides if the Doc was expecting a package she would have programmed the defences to let it in. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Joe Hellandback
have

[AudienceofOne]

On 21/11/2018 at 4:10 AM, tessaray said:

Doctor Who started out as a children's show and is still a family show.  The 8-10 year old has always been its target audience.  I'm not sure it was ever world class scifi, though obviously mileage varies.

Some of its stories have been world-class sci fi. Weirdly, a lot of those stories are the ones people panned because in the past Who never had the budget to give those scripts justice. In particular, there were some extraordinary scripts in the Seventh Doctor era that got cut to shreds due to budgeting constrains and are incomprehensible messes. But I imagine something like the Happiness Patrol could have been world-class scifi given the appropriate treatment. To me, the best Doctor Who storyline is the Curse of Fenric, which you can now buy on DVD uncut. But the broadcast version was slashed to the point where it made absolutely no sense. At least they filmed the whole of Curse of Fenric. A lot of the scripts of that era they only filmed the cut version so no proper full version is available.

As for the 8-12 year old thing (which is the audience of CBBC), I think what we consider appropriate for that age group and what was being made for that age group in the 60s is very different. They expected kids in that era to ask questions about Aztecs and human sacrifice or if the Doctor was justified in wiping out the Daleks. In comparison, modern Who is quite shallow despite the bigger budget. 

[WatchrTina]

On 11/19/2018 at 12:19 PM, benteen said:

I was surprised that the Kerblam robot was actually able to get through the Tardis itself.  That is virtually an impossible thing to do.  Generally when those doors are closed, you cannot get them open from the outside.

This!  The imperviousness of the Tardis to all external forces is one of it's defining characteristics.  It may break down from time to time but nobody and nothing is supposed to be able to get through those doors.  So how is it that Kerblam robots can just materialize/apparate inside in this episode?

[Llywela]

6 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

This!  The imperviousness of the Tardis to all external forces is one of it's defining characteristics.  It may break down from time to time but nobody and nothing is supposed to be able to get through those doors.  So how is it that Kerblam robots can just materialize/apparate inside in this episode?

If the 11th Doctor ordered a fez, he probably programmed the TARDIS to give entry to the delivery bot - and then promptly forgot.

Also, the TARDIS door can't be broken open, but this is not the first time its defences have been broken by other means.

[Mabinogia]

The TARDIS is constantly taking the Doctor to places it feels she needs to go rather than where she wants it to go, so I could easily see the TARDIS letting in a cry for help. And I'm sure it scanned the package to make sure it wasn't a threat. It probably had pre-bomb bubble wrap.

[The Companion]

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

If the 11th Doctor ordered a fez, he probably programmed the TARDIS to give entry to the delivery bot - and then promptly forgot.

Also, the TARDIS door can't be broken open, but this is not the first time its defences have been broken by other means.

Or, if common IT legal practices haven't changed, the Doctor checked a box at checkout. :)

[Last Time Lord]

On 11/20/2018 at 1:33 PM, Llywela said:

It is funny to see the 'SJA' label being thrown at the show, like that's a bad thing - as I recall, while SJA was on-air, a lot of Doctor Who fans preferred it to the overblown melodrama of the parent show!

I know I did!

I’m visiting my family for Christmas, which is allowing me to catch up on the show, since I wasn’t able to watch when it aired. 

It is just so fresh refreshing, as a whole. It’s like, the fun is back in a big way. 

Seems like this season has more emphasis on stories set in the past than it has in a while. 

I really liked Krasko as a villain in Rosa, and would like to see him show back up later on.

I liked how how, Yaz, the police officer was quickly able to restrain Charlie. Sure, he escaped, but the fact she was in it was nice to see. One of the others should have provided backup support. 

[Snow Fairy]

Coming late to the party, but...

Even if the Doctor teleported the packages into the sun in order to destroy them, it would destroy the robots nevertheless. Because robots are teleported with the package, as evidenced by the delivery in the Tardis.

I think it was not possible to teleport packages only, doesn't the robot actually is the one with teleport technology?

That's why she decided to destroy the packages then and there

Edited January 2, 2019 by Snow Fairy