The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[Mrs. de Winter]

Just now, Angel12d said:

Olicity broke up once so I don't think that person has even watched the show. ?

This.  And they have no stamina since the one break-up made them so tired they had to give up the show.

[Angel12d]

Suuuuuure. ?

I've watched shows where they've dragged out the will they/won't they for 5 seasons before they even kiss but that didn't happen on Arrow. That person is such a weak shipper! 

[lemotomato]

At least that person liked Olicity for awhile. O/L wouldn’t qualify for that list because no one liked it even from the start. 

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Play the will they/wont they card long enough it seems like a thousand break ups.

They didn't even do that. We got the first inkling that there could be something at the end of S2 (that was played as a fake out), Oliver broke it off at the end of the first episode of S3, they were together by the finale that season and broke up for the first and only time in the middle of the next, then got back together and are married now. 

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

They didn't even do that. We got the first inkling that there could be something at the end of S2 (that was played as a fake out), Oliver broke it off at the end of the first episode of S3, they were together by the finale that season and broke up for the first and only time in the middle of the next, then got back together and are married now. 

Plenty of people saw it coming by the end of S2, just because it was a "fake out" doesnt change things imo. We knew Felicity had the hots for Oliver, Oliver ended up having the hots for Felicity, they had the dinner in S3 didn't go well then we all know that Oliver was jealous of Ray then they get together at the end of S3, break up in S4 with plenty of feels of "when will they get back together", they hook up in S5 but arent officially together then the end of S5 gives the inkling that they are going to rekindle their relationship, get back together in S6 and married and now he's off to jail. 

It is probably more bearable then Susan/Mike of Desperate Housewives thats for sure. But I can see how people were just "enough already". As I think people are with a lot of ships nowadays.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Plenty of people saw it coming by the end of S2, just because it was a "fake out" doesnt change things imo. We knew Felicity had the hots for Oliver, Oliver ended up having the hots for Felicity, they had the dinner in S3 didn't go well then we all know that Oliver was jealous of Ray then they get together at the end of S3, break up in S4 with plenty of feels of "when will they get back together", they hook up in S5 but arent officially together then the end of S5 gives the inkling that they are going to rekindle their relationship, get back together in S6 and married and now he's off to jail. 

I didn't say the fake out changed anything, I wrote that it was the first inkling we got that they might do something with them as a couple. Your list is the same as mine - and it's nothing, IMO. If someone can't handle that, they probably aren't much into shipping anyway (and definitely shouldn't be doing it on a CW show). 

[lemotomato]

6 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

they hook up in S5 but arent officially together

When did they hook up in season 5? ?

[scarynikki12]

I'll give Buzzfeed credit for putting together a list that I agree with almost entirely.  That never happens.  Of course, we still differ on why the various toxic couples suck (I didn't want Damon and Elena together because he's an abusive ass not because of Stefan, to name one example), but credit when it's due. 

I can see the point about Oliver and Felicity if they count the season 3 opener as a break up.  I don't count it, so they've only broken up once, but the quoted person clearly is a casual watcher at best, and including them is sure to get clicks, so I'm not bothered.

[Mellowyellow]

haha person is weak shipper with no shipping chops! I have sat through: clones, evil twins, betrothed wives, doll brought to life in the image of girl to trick the guy, one party forced to repay a debt in another world, half of OTP shrunk back into a toddler.

[Primal Slayer]

25 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

When did they hook up in season 5? ?

Didn't they have sex in S5. It mightve been a flashback.

[formerlyfreedom]

This is the Media topic - current media conversation, please. 

Posts have been removed; this is NOT the place to discuss relationships or what happened in past seasons. Warnings will be next.

[lemotomato]

5 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Didn't they have sex in S5. It mightve been a flashback.

It was a flashback in 520 to the summer between seasons 4 and 5 and it didn’t have any impact on their relationship in the present day of season 5.

[KenyaJ]

So in addition to not really paying attention and being factual, that person only watched for Olicity? They gave up the whole show because they stopped caring about them? There was nothing else on the show they cared about? Sure, Jan.

[Mary0360]

9 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

To the person quoted about Olicity in the article:

 

Bitter tears taste so sweet. Sorry, not sorry. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Mary0360

[tv echo]

Will Season 7 of Arrow Be Its Last?
By Lindsay MacDonald   May 31, 2018
http://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-season-7-final-season-season-8/?ftag=TVG_Twitter

Quote

Long-running series like The Vampire Diaries, Charmed, One Tree Hill and more have proven that scripted dramas can have long lives on The CW and age with their audience, and Arrow has a leg up on all of them. It not only launched the Arrow-verse — an entity that now dominates the network's primetime schedule — but also the yearly crossover event superhero fans look forward to and audiences show up in droves for. So long as the Arrow-verse exists, the endless amount of crossover potential within that universe makes keeping Arrow around a justifiable choice. What? You think aliens or Nazis or maybe Nazi aliens are going to invade Central City and Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell) and his team are just going to sit this one out? Not likely.

On the other hand, even the longest-running CW shows (with Supernatural as the obvious exception) don't live forever, with most puttering out around Season 8 or 9. Actors eventually want to move on to new projects and storylines can, in fact, run out, even for shows with procedural elements. Just because there's no shortage of comic book villains for Oliver to take down doesn't mean that eventually, we won't get tired of watching Olicity break up then make up, Lance sisters die and come back to life, and Oliver go on trial for being the Green Arrow for the eighteenth time.
*  *  *
As storylines run out, oftentimes so too does viewership, but while Arrow's ratings have certainly experienced a decline over the course of its run, it's still got a passionate fan base that continues to show up. It's therefore hard to argue that it's not just popular enough to sustain itself for several more years. While popularity is great, Emily Bett Rickards recently told TV Guide that the show's future will always rely more on the story left to tell rather than the relative popularity of the show.

"What we only want to do in TV and entertainment is to tell stories and to tell good stories and hopefully influence the world... and sometimes the best way to do that is to have a new show and sometimes the best way to do that is to keep the show going," Bett Rickards says. "I think it would depend on what the sort of goal would be when Season 7 wraps. I think it would have to depend on how this one goes. People could say that's in terms of popularity but I think it also has to go in terms of story and where's the best way to take the story."

It doesn't sound like there are any definitive plans to make Season 7 the last, which means the logical guess would be that Arrow will survive to see an eighth (and potentially final) season. While that would regrettably put the series just shy of 200 episodes, it would give the cast and creators plenty of time to make their way through the Arrow bucket list and wrap things up.

Luckily, should that be the case, we probably won't have to say goodbye to Team Arrow entirely — there's still three other shows for these characters to move to once Arrow's final curtain closes.

"I guess it would depend on what would become more interesting in terms of storyline and what people want to watch," Bett Rickards says of any potential moves post-Arrow. "People can still love these characters and see these characters on other shows."

Whenever Arrow ends, fans shouldn't expect to be taken aback by a sudden cancellation. The CW's tendency to give long-running shows fair warning of their impending demise (plus Netflix's obvious licensing preference for shows that tie things up with a bow) means that we'll see Arrow's series finale coming long before it arrives.

Edited June 1, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Life Sentence - Arrow Music Notes 6x23
Austencello   May 31, 2018
https://austencello.tumblr.com/post/174455892984/life-sentence-arrow-music-notes-6x23

Quote

The episode began with a bang as the team and the FBI attacked Diaz’s forces both at the police station and his other operation base.  The music includes Arrow’s hero horn as the police man literally ran into the Green Arrow with string patterns ”So it Begins/Stopping Mayhem” (5x06).  Despite their efforts, they fail to capture Diaz and Anatoly.
*  *  *
... As the episode progresses, he sequentially mends fences with his former team members before he leaves.  He first starts with Diggle, giving him a Green Arrow suit as the track “Asking Diggle” (5x01) plays.  At that point, Diggle was paying penance for his sins by rejoining the army.  Oliver called Diggle for his wisdom and perspective about putting together a new team because he trusts John over anyone outside of Felicity.  This season, Oliver and John had a falling out over leadership decisions which tore at their relationship.  However, the foundation of their friendship is still rock solid and there is no other person that Oliver would trust the city and the suit to than John Diggle.  John responds that Oliver is the person that gave the suit the symbol of hope and that they only need one Green Arrow as violins add a new element to the theme.  As they shake hands, Diggle’s horn theme plays (1x20 “No Show”) which was also used in their goodbye in 3x23. 
*  *  *
Sara Lance arrives to see her Dad, having been contacted by Earth2 Laurel.  This was an amazing scene with her beautiful entrance combined with her theme “Get Your Soul Back” (2x20) which is primarily used on Arrow.  This theme first appeared in 2x04 “Ghosts” when Sara wants to remain hidden from her family and tells Oliver that they are both ghosts.  Oliver replied that they were both alive and she needed to tell her family that she survived.  Sara viewed herself as damaged and full of darkness especially after joining the League of Assassins, unworthy to be with her family.  As she gradually got closer and more vulnerable with her family, the theme is used more and more frequently.  It is used when she revealed herself to Quentin “Sara back” and “Home for Weeks” (2x05), when Laurel saw her in 2x12 after being poisoned, when Sara decided to take poison in 2x13 before exchanging herself for her mom, when she opened up to Laurel as the Canary “Sister moment” (2x17), when she told Laurel that she is unredeemable “Beautiful Name” (2x22), when she gave Laurel her leather jacket before leaving, promising to come back in “Passing the Jacket” (2x23), when she left after being resurrected to find her own life “Normal Life” (4x06), and finally in Legends when she is at Laurel’s grave with Quentin (1x16) choosing to continue being a hero and a Legend for Laurel.  It is the love of her father and sister that brought light back into the darkness for Sara.  Now she has returned and sees a different version of the sister she lost, startling her and bringing up that loss once again.  Yet, she is also curious to know how similar this Laurel is to her sister, while Laurel2 admits that they were not similar at all.   
*  *  *
The FBI arrive to arrest Oliver while they are waiting during Quentin’s surgery to the shock and dismay of everyone else.  One of the Arrow violin string patterns (used in “Sacrifice” 1x23 and “Canary Flies Away” 4x16) plays intermittently with high electronics, occasional low electronic beats and over strings and brass playing the beginning of the theme “I forgot who I was” (1x05).  Oliver will always choose sacrificing himself for his family and his team.  While the everyone is trying to figure out what is happening, the doctor comes out to tell them that Quentin died.  A version of the slow Arrow theme returns in the strings as they grieve hearing the news.
*  *  *
Felicity gets a few moments with Oliver as they wait for his prison transport.  She tells him that they will break him out the way they did for John.  Oliver refuses because he does not want Felicity to be arrested or for William to be without a parent.  As he admits that not everything went the way they wanted especially with Quentin’s death and failing to arrest Diaz: “We got the city back but I lost.”  The theme “Scars” (1x01) plays in the piano as he struggles with the reality of losing not only Quentin but Felicity and William, asking her to go into protective custody until Diaz is captured.  Oliver has lost so many people, dealing with scars both physically and emotionally.  This theme works with both whether it is seeing his scars in 1x01 in the mirror or 1x02 when Diggle mentions that home is a battlefield.  It is also used in moments where he felt completely lost in his purpose and his mission was taken away from him both in 3x19 “Sacrificed Everything” when Ra’s had taken the Arrow from him and he told Felicity that he could no longer live by either name or in 5x20 “Confessions to Felicity” when he believed his mission was based on a lie thanks to Chase’s torture, not able to trust himself.  Felicity was always able to bring light to Oliver’s darkness, emphasized in their date 3x01 “Hard to Trust” where he shared that she was the first person he could see as a person instead of a target.   Oliver is once again defeated and resigned while Felicity refuses to believe that Oliver going to prison is the only option.  Oliver is resolute however, convinced that this is the only way to protect everyone.  
*  *  *
A new theme in the harp plays as Oliver asks Felicity to bring William in so he could say goodbye.  This theme is interwoven with the strings playing the main theme from “Sacrifice/Not Going to Make it” (1x23).  This theme was used quite a lot in 6x21 as this family dealing with his trial, struggling with the idea of losing each other while Oliver was determined not to put William and Felicity in danger.  It played as Oliver was declared free and now more subtly and heart-breakingly plays as that is revoked and they have to say goodbye.  At the beginning of the year, Oliver had a family with a son and then a wife and now he sacrifices himself so that William will not lose another mother.

Edited June 1, 2018 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

12 hours ago, tv echo said:

Felicity gets a few moments with Oliver as they wait for his prison transport.  She tells him that they will break him out the way they did for John.  Oliver refuses because he does not want Felicity to be arrested or for William to be without a parent.  As he admits that not everything went the way they wanted especially with Quentin’s death and failing to arrest Diaz: “We got the city back but I lost.”  The theme “Scars” (1x01) plays in the piano as he struggles with the reality of losing not only Quentin but Felicity and William, asking her to go into protective custody until Diaz is captured.  Oliver has lost so many people, dealing with scars both physically and emotionally.  This theme works with both whether it is seeing his scars in 1x01 in the mirror or 1x02 when Diggle mentions that home is a battlefield.  It is also used in moments where he felt completely lost in his purpose and his mission was taken away from him both in 3x19 “Sacrificed Everything” when Ra’s had taken the Arrow from him and he told Felicity that he could no longer live by either name or in 5x20 “Confessions to Felicity” when he believed his mission was based on a lie thanks to Chase’s torture, not able to trust himself.  Felicity was always able to bring light to Oliver’s darkness, emphasized in their date 3x01 “Hard to Trust” where he shared that she was the first person he could see as a person instead of a target.   Oliver is once again defeated and resigned while Felicity refuses to believe that Oliver going to prison is the only option.  Oliver is resolute however, convinced that this is the only way to protect everyone.  
*  *  *
A new theme in the harp plays as Oliver asks Felicity to bring William in so he could say goodbye.  This theme is interwoven with the strings playing the main theme from “Sacrifice/Not Going to Make it” (1x23).  This theme was used quite a lot in 6x21 as this family dealing with his trial, struggling with the idea of losing each other while Oliver was determined not to put William and Felicity in danger.  It played as Oliver was declared free and now more subtly and heart-breakingly plays as that is revoked and they have to say goodbye.  At the beginning of the year, Oliver had a family with a son and then a wife and now he sacrifices himself so that William will not lose another mother.

I really appreciated the effort put into the music on this show.  I rarely notice it during the episode, it just provides the mood, but when they break it down like this, it blows me away, the care and depth they put into the choice behind each note.  

[tv echo]

Arrow Season 6: What Do We Think About Ricardo ‘the Dragon’ Diaz?
Posted by Dan Wickline June 2, 2018
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/06/02/arrow-season-6-what-do-we-think-about-ricardo-the-dragon-diaz/

Quote

Continuing the look at this superhero seasons big bads, we move on to Arrow who has had the most seasons so the most big bads to compare to. In situations like this I am merely sharing my opinion and would like to hear the thoughts of other people who watch the shows. Like where does Ricardo ‘the Dragon’ Diaz (Kirk Acevedo) stack up against other villains and what you’d like to see in season seven. Arrow has had some great villains and a few the didn’t quite work as well as others. So here are my thoughts on the batch.
*  *  *
... But Ra’s goes with Batman just as it would be weird to have Batman take on the Longbow Hunters.
*  *  *
If you would’ve asked me at the end of season four to rank the villains, I woud’ve put Damien Darhk (Neal McDonough) dead last with space for future villains to automatically fill in above him. I like McDonough, but his character didn’t feel right on Arrow. It was great to bring Constantine (Matt Ryan) and Vixen (Megalyn Echikunwoke) to the series, but the season just didn’t quite work for me overall and Darhk was the main reason. That said, when he moved over to the more campy Legends of Tomorrow, I think he was awesome. A perfect villain for them even if he was in a supporting villain role both times. Darhk is a great villain, just not against Green Arrow.
*  *  *
They straightened it back out in season five by bringing in Prometheus (Josh Segarra). They did a bait and switch by naming him Adrian Chase and introducing Vigilante at the same time since in the comics Adrian Chase is Vigilante, but the character was a very good foil to Oliver Queen and his motives of revenge were solid. He may have gone a tiny bit too far at the end for who the character was, but it still worked and had one of the best season finales yet.
*  *  *
Trying to rank the different villains here is difficult because the series started out with two really good ones. And while I have to pick Deathstroke as the best so far, I think Merlyn is a close second with Prometheus coming in third. Then it becomes more difficult because I like James better than Diaz and would put James closely behind Prometheus, but since Diaz manipulated James, then Diaz is the big bad of the season… it still puts him fourth but not nearly as close in discussion. Ra’s al Ghul is fifth with Damien Darhk coming in sixth but will do much better when looking at the Legends villains.

Edited June 2, 2018 by tv echo

[mtlchick]

In Canada, the show is moving...somewhere among the vast array of Bell owned networks next season along with Legends:

https://www.bellmedia.ca/pr/press/chris-pine-jessica-alba-sandra-oh-busy-philipps-gabrielle-union-and-other-a-listers-land-on-bell-media-specialty-channels-for-2018-19-season/

[KenyaJ]

Quote

8 CW Stars Who Are Difficult To Work With (And 7 Who Are Delightful)

15. MANU BENNETT - NOT

First things first, Bennet’s turn as Deathstroke was a seminal portrayal of the character and his performance can arguably be tracked to the revitalization of the character in the comic and cinematic universe. Unfortunately, his extracurricular activities have affected the past few years of his career, and the character’s return to the show is in jeopardy.

In 2015, at Alamo City Comic Convention in San Antonio, Texas, Bennett was arrested for misdemeanor assault in the midnight hours of a convention after party. Further elaboration on the incident is probably unnecessary. Since it was Manu Bennett, the whole thing was obviously over quickly.

For his part, Bennett has apologized outright for his behavior, offering no excuse for a drunken mistake. This sort of incident isn’t unheard of and accounts of the altercation suggest that Bennett was provoked, but this was still a severe scandal for the New Zealand native. Who also, by the way, provided the voice and frame for Azog the orc, from the Hobbit trilogy, after getting his break in Spartacus: Gods of the Arena. This black mark may not marr Bennett’s reputation forever, but Deathstroke fans definitely have reason to be concerned for how this affects the character’s future in the CW’s DC universe.

...

2. STEPHEN AMELL - DELIGHTFUL

Even on the small screen, the actors playing superheroes have to bring a certain amount of gravitas to their roles in order to make audiences believe that they really might be heroes. When Stephen Amell became the leading man for the CW’s Arrow, they hit a bullseye with their casting. Because it’s television, and the actor will be playing this extremely demanding role for multiple years, the most important thing is for the lead actor, Amell in this case, to be able to balance the shooting schedule, conventions, training, and philanthropy, and still find time to develop a life and career.

Stephen Amell, started his career out of Toronto in 2004, beginning with spots in Queer as Folk and Degrassi: The Next Generation. He then began piling on as many recurring parts and bit roles as he could through the late 2000s, appearing on Heartland, CSI: Miami, Blue Mountain State, and The Vampire Diaries. In 2012, he was cast as Oliver Queen, and he began to create the televised version of a character that has been orphaned with billions of dollars and becomes a superhero. He’s pulled it off with a combination of grit, humility, and humor, and off the set, he manages to be a nice guy too, known for his in-person fan meetings.

...

1. KATIE CASSIDY - NOT

The vitriol behind Katie Cassidy’s performance on Arrow has been largely shapeless, but there are so many petty accusations swirling around Cassidy that the actor has developed more of a diva reputation, than a difficult one. The woman behind Laurel Lance got a very polarizing response for her performance. For whatever reason, maybe it was the character’s writing, the show was never able to find the classic Black Canary voice that Lance was heading towards. Her evolution as a member of Oliver’s support system has been up and down as she mostly struggled with her own demons following the death of her sister and mother.

When her character was finally taken out at the end of season four by Damien Darhk, rumors swirled about whether or not it was at her request, the producer’s insistence or a bit of both.

No matter the reason, that creative decision felt strained, and while the CW would like fans to think that they were just pulling a rabbit out of the hat with Laurel’s passing, they had no idea how bad the backlash would be. Some might argue that more of an indictment of Felicity Smoak’s character than Laurel’s, but even now that she’s become Black Siren, Cassidy’s struggling to succeed in the the show’s long run.

This is a strange article. And no matter how many times I read and reread that last paragraph, I'm perplexed about how Felicity figures into anything having to do with the decision to kill Laurel off.

Also on the Delightful list: Melissa Benoist, Grant Gustin, Tom Cavanaugh, Danielle Panabaker, Chris Wood, Caity Lotz

On the Not list: KJ Apa, Teri Hatcher, Robert Knepper, Taylor Momsen, Penn Badgely, Calista Flockhart

[insomniadreams88]

Hold up, is that article saying that Laurel struggled with the death of her mother? The same mother who was at her funeral? Or am I reading that sentence wrong? 

[scarynikki12]

I love gossip as much as anyone but I love RESEARCHED gossip the most.  This isn't it.  I'm sure Mom Dinah would be very surprised to learn that people think she's dead, though that is the basis of a book I just picked up from the library so maybe she'll be having her own adventures in Offscreenville.

[JamieLynn832002]

Maybe Dinah was secretly the first Lance to return from the dead and the show just forgot to tell us about it? That list is weird, Manu's behavior from 2015 is a reason to be worried about Deathstroke's future on the show when he appeared multiple times in 2017?

[KenyaJ]

Yeah, the whole article is strange. I mean, if you’re gonna talk about reasons why MB is difficult to work with p, how can you not mention all the shit he said after He didn’t like the way the Deathstroke story concluded in S2. Even when he came back in S5, it was messy, with him insisting he wasn’t coming back, even after MG and SA confirmed it? 

Also did I sleep and miss the big Laurel backlash? I know KC/LL fans were upset, but I don’t remember any outrage outside those quarters, and I dont remember any kind of sustained social media campaign or anything (did No Laurel, No Arrow even trend?). Of all the reasons thrown around for why she was brought back, I’ve never heard anyone credible attribute it to fan demand. 

Edited June 3, 2018 by KenyaJ

[Mary0360]

2 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

 

Also did I sleep and miss the big Laurel backlash? I know KC/LL fans were upset, but I don’t remember any outrage outside those quarters, and I dont remember any kind of sustained social media campaign or anything. of All the reasons thrown around for why she was brought back, I’ve never heard anyone credible attribute it to fan demand. 

10 or 15 people on twitter bitching in the writers mentions with a hash tag or getting into fights with rival fans is hardly a backlash.  That's called a tantrum. 

 

A backlash is what happened in the same season time frame with Lexa from the 100 that was so involved that it was written about by the top line entertainment media, inspired many questions about the treatment of lgbtq characters in media and actually got the President of the CW network to make a statement on the decision at the TCA that year. To me Lexas death or even Abby Mills death on Sleepy Hollow were legitimate backlashes. 

 

Also I think there is far more compelling reasons why Katie Cassidy might be difficult to work with then then ones on that list which seemed in essence to be saying she just got a tough break with her character- and really it's Felicity Smoak who's the worst. 

 

Umm what about the fact that she had zero chemistry with the lead actor in a role that required her to be the love interest; to the point that in season 1 nearly all of the deleted scenes were hers and were scenes that were designed to soften the character or develop the relationship. Or that there's rumours of her being late and unprofessional on set, which is evident in her regularly turning up late to cons, or cancelling last minute under questionable circumstances. Or the fact that she by her own admittance would go  against what was written or intended for her character by the writers, which you could say is disrespectful of their work. 

 

But no it's Felicity Smoaks fault. 

 

From this article something which stuck out:

Quote

The CW has been known for their low tolerance of scandal and the high expectations they have of their actors. Very few are ever outright fired though.

A. If the CW has high expectations for their actors why are half the actors on the network so terrible? 

B. 'Low tolerance for scandal' also sounds fake.

[KenyaJ]

1 hour ago, Mary0360 said:

A backlash is what happened in the same season time frame with Lexa from the 100 that was so involved that it was written about by the top line entertainment media, inspired many questions about the treatment of lgbtq characters in media and actually got the President of the CW network to make a statement on the decision at the TCA that year. To me Lexas death or even Abby Mills death on Sleepy Hollow were legitimate backlashes.

Yes. I didn't watch The 100 or Sleepy Hollow, but I my TL was filled with articles and critic discussion of both of those decisions. Even when it looked like the Star Trek reboot killed off one half of its gay couple, I saw days and days of discussion about it on Twitter, blogs, and even podcasts. Had I not read about it here, I wouldn't have even known about the No Laurel, No Arrow thing. I feel like there was more of a "backlash" to the newbies this year, TBH.

[Primal Slayer]

MG/WM have stated that they were surprised by the amount of backlash they got over Laurels death, it wasnt just 10 people.

3 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

This is a strange article. And no matter how many times I read and reread that last paragraph, I'm perplexed about how Felicity figures into anything having to do with the decision to kill Laurel off.

Also on the Delightful list: Melissa Benoist, Grant Gustin, Tom Cavanaugh, Danielle Panabaker, Chris Wood, Caity Lotz

On the Not list: KJ Apa, Teri Hatcher, Robert Knepper, Taylor Momsen, Penn Badgely, Calista Flockhart

That article certainly is interesting. It involves a lot of the actors lives outside the set that deem them "unpleasant". Calista requesting to leave because it moved to Vancouver has made her difficult to work with lol. 

[BkWurm1]

The deaths on The 100 and Sleepy Hollow were what people were outraged about based on how those characters were treated (in part because Lexa was a lesbian and the "killing your gays" troupe exists and the weird behind the scenes conversations with the fans, and the one from Sleepy Hollow was black and the show weirdly resisted making her the love interest.)  In both cases, they were very influential and popular characters on the show.  Those were the ones that struck IMO actual social outrage but Laurel's death rode their coattails with so many articles including Laurel's death with the list of women killed off that year even if when the reason for the show getting rid of Laurel was a pretty different situation.  I still maintain most of the complaints were protests in principle about killing BC because of the iconic comic character, not because of the performance of Arrow's version of Dinah Laurel Lance.  Articles that were written on the topic typically acknowledged Arrow hadn't done much with the character.  

Edited June 4, 2018 by BkWurm1

[Mary0360]

4 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

MG/WM have stated that they were surprised by the amount of backlash they got over Laurels death, it wasnt just 10 people.

That article certainly is interesting. It involves a lot of the actors lives outside the set that deem them "unpleasant". Calista requesting to leave because it moved to Vancouver has made her difficult to work with lol. 

This was Marc's quote post Laurels death:

 

Quote

"We knew that it would enrage a lot of people," executive producer Marc Guggenheim said. "We're not immune to the [fans rooting for Oliver and Laurel] and we're not blind to it. We knew people would think, in the season where Oliver and Felicity get engaged and Laurel dies, that's clearly making a choice about who's going to end up with who. We told the Laurel/Oliver romance story in season one. We never really thought about going back to it. [Fans rooting for them] was not an element or a factor for us."

He added, "We recognize that that upsets a lot of fans, particularly the comic book fans. In the comics, Dinah Lance and Oliver Queen are in a romance together in various iterations. To some people, that is considered canonical and iconic. We respect that but at the same time, we've always made no bones about the fact that we are telling our own version of the Green Arrow mythos. ... But it made the most creative sense for us going forward despite the fact that we love Katie. Every time we've killed off a character on the show, it's really been for the affect on all the characters left behind."

That sounds like they were aware they were going to piss people off therefore would not be surprised by that anger or "backlash". 

[Chaser]

I can believe the response was more vocal than expected but I don’t think it came from anywhere unexpected. If there was a noticeable backlash, it was about BC not KC. Hence the introduction of Dinah Drake. If it was about Laurel as BC, they wouldn’t have just replaced the mask.

[tv echo]

#DCTV: Supergirl Leaves Earth? + Arrow Season 6 Best Moments
Published on Jun 4, 2018, by DC

-- DC's Hector Navarro said that his fave moment from S6 of Arrow was the season finale fight between Oliver and Diaz.

-- Hector then read some fan comments on their fave moments from S6 of Arrow (he had requested these comments last week): Deathstroke's return, Oliver's Vertigo-drugged conversation with Adrian Chase, Crisis on Earth-X crossover, Roy Harper's return, Diaz-centered episode, and Oliver/Diggle's fight.

Edited June 4, 2018 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

I wonder how EPs handle it when there is such disparityof feelings about a major character on a show.  I loathed everything about super lame DDD but then there's Hector saying his fave moment was the fight between Oliver and Diaz, and others saying that DDD revitalized the show.

[EmilyBettFan]

I hope they end Diaz fast in season 7. You can see from the clips he's trying to be like Chase/Al Pacino. 

[tv echo]

Our Fall TV Predictions, From That Arrow Unmasking to Young Sheldon's Freshman Fate: Which Came True?
By Team TVLine / June 4 2018, 1:50 PM PDT
http://tvline.com/2018/06/04/tv-season-spoilers-arrow-once-upon-time-young-sheldon/

Quote

Way back in mid-September, when the 2017-18 TV season was barely emerging from its primordial ooze, the TVLine staff did the annual thing that we do — offer up brainy and or bold predictions for dozens of shows. What was our latest success rate?
*  *  *
Where did TVLine outright nail it, where did we come up a smidgen short, and in what instances were we out-and-out wrong? Spoiler alert: Last time around, we slipped to a 28 percent success rate. This year, however, we proved to be a bit more psychic, boasting 32 percent accuracy (including one “incomplete” grade).

In the attached slideshow (or click here for direct access), we present our original predictions exactly as they were published in mid-September, accompanied by each outcome.

Fall TV Predictions: Revivals, Reveals, Babies and More
http://tvline.com/gallery/fall-tv-predictions-2017-lost-spinoff-scandal-finale/

Quote

ARROW
PREDICTION: Vigilante — who has a “personal” agenda and will be revealed to have a “very close connection” to a series regular character — is either A) SCPD Captain Pike, B) Dinah’s “dead” partner/lover or C) Earth-2’s John Diggle. But for our final answer, we’ll go with… B, aka Vincent Sobel. 

OUTCOME: Ding! We hit the bull’s-eye right out of the gate, albiet with one of the Arrowverse’s snooziest unmaskings. (STARTING SCORE: 1-for-1)

Edited June 5, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Given the source of this article, I'm surprised that Felicity's monologue was even included on this writer's list, but maybe it's because her monologue was all about Oliver. The rest of his list doesn't surprise me at all - I laughed at the last paragraph (quoted below) because you just know that he was dying to write "Green Arrow and Black Canary" and had to settle for "Green Arrow and Black Siren"...

Arrow season 6: Ranking its 10 best moments
by Michael Patterson   June 6, 2018
https://bamsmackpow.com/2018/06/06/arrow-season-6-best-moments/

Quote

8. Felicity’s monologue to William
...
Unhappy with Oliver’s life as the Green Arrow, William protested regularly. But thanks to Felicity, he was allowed to watch Team Arrow in action via the bunker’s monitors. As he watched, she delivered a powerful monologue about love, worry and the dangers of the job. As she did so, we caught slow-motion glimpses of Team Arrow in precarious spots, while she referenced the loss they’ve suffered before as we got a close-up on Laurel’s Black Canary costume.

In a show that often loses sight of its own deadly situations, this moment added a lot of gravity to the season and reminded us all as viewers that being a superhero can have deadly consequences. It made quite the impact on William, who had begun to see how selfless (and badass) his father truly was. And it was easily one of the most powerful and moving sequences that the show has delivered.
*  *  *
1. Green Arrow vs. Ricardo Diaz II
...
With insane fight choreography, beautifully crafted slow-mo shots and powerful music, this fight was a completely different ball game compared to their first confrontation. Oliver wasn’t fighting Diaz on his turf now, this was the Green Arrow’s fight and it was the epic, triumphant spectacle that it should have been.

Defeating Diaz in the fight brought closure to the pair’s Season 6 arc. And Black Siren’s arrival to Scream him off the roof (and apparently into next season) also furthered her arc as well. Not only had Green Arrow and Black Siren defeated the Big Bad of Season 6, they overcame their reservations to take back what was theirs. And it was the perfect culmination of both their respective stories and a satisfying conclusion to Season 6.

10. Deathstroke battles his son
9. Oliver and Diaz finally get physical
8. Felicity’s monologue to William
7. Sara Lance meets Earth-2 Laurel
6. Black Siren finally stands up to Diaz
5. Oliver’s trial
4. Quentin and Oliver’s last chat
3. Thea Queen’s departure
2. Laurel and Dinah work together to save Quentin
1. Green Arrow vs. Ricardo Diaz II

Edited June 6, 2018 by tv echo

[Angel12d]

Quote

Not only had Green Arrow and Black Siren defeated the Big Bad of Season 6, they overcame their reservations to take back what was theirs. And it was the perfect culmination of both their respective stories and a satisfying conclusion to Season 6.

The reach. ??

[bethy]

39 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Defeating Diaz in the fight brought closure to the pair’s Season 6 arc. And Black Siren’s arrival to Scream him off the roof (and apparently into next season) also furthered her arc as well. Not only had Green Arrow and Black Siren defeated the Big Bad of Season 6, they overcame their reservations to take back what was theirs. And it was the perfect culmination of both their respective stories and a satisfying conclusion to Season 6.

 

[KenyaJ]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

Not only had Green Arrow and Black Siren defeated the Big Bad of Season 6, they overcame their reservations to take back what was theirs. And it was the perfect culmination of both their respective stories and a satisfying conclusion to Season 6.

Oh. Was their great success "defeating" Diaz why Oliver screamed at her for fucking everything up? Like what you like, but don't be completely delusional about it. At least not in print, where everyone can see it.

[statsgirl]

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

7. Sara Lance meets Earth-2 Laurel

Anyone who thinks that this was a great moment, as opposed to the one we didn't get, Sara's last moment with the real father that she's had a conflicted relationship with for over a decade, it's a giveaway that they're watching through Laurel Lance glasses.

This is how the BTS obsession with putting a Laurel in, any Laurel, screws up the show overall.  I'm okay with the Black Siren who appeared last season and in 6A but the writing to redeem weakens all of the storylines.

Edited June 6, 2018 by statsgirl

[BkWurm1]

Even Felicity's monologue was probably on the list because she took a moment to be sad and look at E1 Laurel's costume, lol.  That list is hilariously biased. 

Quote

 Defeating Diaz in the fight brought closure to the pair’s Season 6 arc. And Black Siren’s arrival to Scream him off the roof (and apparently into next season) also furthered her arc as well. Not only had Green Arrow and Black Siren defeated the Big Bad of Season 6, they overcame their reservations to take back what was theirs. And it was the perfect culmination of both their respective stories and a satisfying conclusion to Season 6.

 

Defeated?  The whole purpose of BS showing up was to mess up GA's defeat of the Big Bad. And it stopped either one of them from having a culmination since he wasn't caught and defeated.  It was IMO incredibly unsatisfying and open-ended but I can easily imagine someone fan fic'ing it in their head as they watched and pretending that it was GA and BC up on the roof, working together to stop their season-long nemesis.  It's just not what happened, lol.  

[Primal Slayer]

5 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Anyone who thinks that this was a great moment, as opposed to the one we didn't get, Sara's last moment with the real father that she's had a conflicted relationship with for over a decade, it's a giveaway that they're watching through Laurel Lance glasses.

This is how the BTS obsession with putting a Laurel in, any Laurel, screws up the show overall.  I'm okay with the Black Siren who appeared last season and in 6A but the writing to redeem weakens all of the storylines.

How is thinking that a scene that we got, was good vs a scene we didnt get....a giveaway that they are only here for Laurel. Everyone wouldve loved for Sara to get a scene with Quentin but they didnt give that to us so it cant be a great moment if it never happened. Just like if someone thought somehow the Laurel/Oliver moment was great as opposed to Quentin getting a goodbye...it never happened so judging a moment against one that never happened is hard to do. 

[EmilyBettFan]

I'm sorry but its extremely biased when a character who had less to do in the show and wasn't even in every episode has three "great" moments. Ridiculous. 

[apinknightmare]

I don't think the number of "great" moments indicates a bias so much as including what is the least heroic moment of Siren's halfassed ~redemption arc, when she sonic blasts the villain right off the roof, allowing him to get away right as Oliver had him, completely blowing Oliver's deal with the FBI and leaving Diaz's stupid ass in the wind. Nothing great about that showcase of absolute idiocy and only a blind Stan would be able to think of it like that, LOL. 

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

How is thinking that a scene that we got, was good vs a scene we didnt get....a giveaway that they are only here for Laurel. Everyone wouldve loved for Sara to get a scene with Quentin but they didnt give that to us so it cant be a great moment if it never happened. Just like if someone thought somehow the Laurel/Oliver moment was great as opposed to Quentin getting a goodbye...it never happened so judging a moment against one that never happened is hard to do. 

Sara and LL2 have no history together and no connection other than BS is someone who tried to murder a number of Sara's friends and caused Oliver a great deal of trouble.  They're not sisters, they're not friends.  Sara knows about other earth dopplegangers and how dangerous they can be so she should be deeply suspicious about this one.  Logically there is no reason to get excited about them meeting any more than LL2 meeting Sara than meeting Roy or Raisa other than Yay, it's Laurel meeting her sister Sara!

In terms of the episode overall, I think saying that the LL2/Sara scene was one of the great moments of the season instead of pointing out that the what could have been a great scene between Sara and Quentin was not as important as Sara touchingly meeting the woman who Quentin lost his mind over I think argues a Laurel stan.

58 minutes ago, EmilyBettFan said:

I'm sorry but its extremely biased when a character who had less to do in the show and wasn't even in every episode has three "great" moments. Ridiculous. 

Four, since she was a major part of his description of the Oliver/Diaz fight.

Thea, Quentin and Felicity only got one each.  Diggle didn't get even that. Nor did Anatoli or Cayden James.

Edited June 7, 2018 by statsgirl

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Sara and LL2 have no history together and no connection other than BS is someone who tried to murder a number of Sara's friends and caused Oliver a great deal of trouble.  They're not sisters, they're not friends.  Sara knows about other earth dopplegangers and how dangerous they can be so she should be deeply suspicious about this one.  Logically there is no reason to get excited about them meeting any more than LL2 meeting Sara than meeting Roy or Raisa other than Yay, it's Laurel meeting her sister Sara!

In terms of the episode overall, I think saying that the LL2/Sara scene was one of the great moments of the season instead of pointing out that the what could have been a great scene between Sara and Quentin was not as important as Sara touchingly meeting the woman who Quentin lost his mind over I think argues a Laurel stan.

Four, since she was a major part of his description of the Oliver/Diaz fight.

If they didn't point out any other "could have beens" then there is no reason to point out what could have been with Sara/Quentin. That's a totally different kind of list and plenty of reviewers have enjoyed the scene who aren't strictly Laurel fans. Sara already knows Quentin wanted to find the light within this Laurel and it was something that she practically supported. Seeing her at the hospital and knowing that she is the one who contacted her, there is no reason for her to be deeply suspicious about her intentions. Sara knows that E-X dopplegangers can be dangerous but she probably would've attempted to break through to that Quentin if she had had the chance before seeing that there is nothing to break through unlike E2Laurel who could be broken through to. People are excited to see what can come of Sara/Laurel connecting because while she may be a different version of her sister, they still had similar experiences . People are HYPED about the crossover with a character that has no connections or history with our characters but it something that will be built upon, this is no different. 

[Starfish35]

14 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Sara already knows Quentin wanted to find the light within this Laurel and it was something that she practically supported.

Taking this to Bitterness thread.....

[tv echo]

Another website that I normally avoid, but this article's not too bad...

Arrow season 7: 10 things we want to see
PIP ELLWOOD-HUGHES   JUNE 7, 2018
https://www.entertainment-focus.com/arrow/arrow-season-7-10-things-we-want-to-see/

Quote

1. Oliver to serve some serious time in prison. I don’t want him to miraculously get out of prison after only a handful of episodes. This is one scenario that needs to play out and I can foresee that perhaps Oliver will act as an inside informant for the authorities to negotiate a deal that gets him out. This story arc should give Oliver time to reflect on some of the decisions he’s made and it will also likely make him a target for the many people he’s sent to prison over the last six seasons.
*  *  *
3. The end of in-fighting with Team Arrow. The storyline has been done and it wasn’t very popular with fans. With Diggle (David Ramsey) back as the Green Arrow and the team together again, it’s time to put that behind them and unite them moving forward. I actually like the extended Team Arrow with Curtis (Echo Kellum), Dinah (Juliana Harkavy) and Rene (Rick Gonzalez) all having seriously grown on me.
*  *  *
4. A continuation of darker themes. With the arrival of the Longbow Hunters, it looks like Arrow is staying dark for season 7 and I’m good with that. Arrow has always been the edgiest of The CW DC shows and it works best when it’s gritty, violent and shocking.

5. Black Siren to stay independent of Team Arrow. I understand that Quentin did a lot to humanise Black Siren aka replacement Laurel during season 6 but I would find it hard to believe she could be welcomed into Team Arrow with open arms. She’s done some heinous things but she also is likely out to avenge Quentin’s death. I just hope the writers don’t force her into the role of original Laurel and expect us to swallow it.

6. Character progression for Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards). Now that Oliver is in prison, Felicity is essentially a single mum to William (Jack Moore). She’s going to have a tough time juggling her parental responsibilities with her Team Arrow work and her own business with Curtis. Also does anyone else think William should meet Rene’s daughter?
*  *  *
10. It not to be the final season. There are lots of murmurs that Arrow could end with its seventh season. I hope that’s not going to be the case. Sure it’s had a rocky run in recent seasons but season 7 was a return to form I thought. I don’t see how The CW’s Arrowverse can continue without its parent show.

1. Oliver to serve some serious time in prison.
2. An interesting return for Roy (Colton Haynes). 
3. The end of in-fighting with Team Arrow.
4. A continuation of darker themes. 
5. Black Siren to stay independent of Team Arrow. 
6. Character progression for Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards).
7. Diggle embracing his role as leader of Team Arrow
8. Even more integration with the other Arrowverse shows.
9. Plenty of jaw-dropping action.
10. It not to be the final season. 

Edited June 7, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

'I hope Wild Dog will fight alongside

Spoiler

Batgirl

this year,' says Rick Gonzalez about the fate of Rene in 'Arrow' season 7
By Mangala Dilip · 03:04 PST, 7 Jun 2018
article link

Quote

Here are some edited excerpts from Meaww's interview with Rick or CW's 'Arrow':  

Congratulations on a great run on 'Arrow.' This season, for the first time, has not left us with a fear of an impending big bad, but with a sense of defeat. Before you read the script, did you anticipate this sort of an ending? What was your reaction to it? 
Rick: Thank you. I did find out the plan for the ending of the season before the script came out. My first reaction was, “That’s great”. What I love about the writers on our show is they continue to find ways to create different storylines to engage our audience. Which allows the characters to continuously react and grow on the show. ‘Arrow’ tries to break conventional story methods for television which makes working on the show fun and interesting. 
*  *  *
I read that Paul Blackthorne will not be returning for another season, which means that the death of Captain Lance might stick. How do you think it will affect the Team Arrow dynamic? Rene had a great bond with him, how do you think he will cope with the news? 
Rick: Sadly yes, we lost Paul Blackthorne as Captain Lance on the show. I will miss Paul a great deal and wish him well on his new show. I know he will be fantastic and I’m rooting for him always. I think things will dynamically change for everyone in the upcoming season.  

Losing Captain Lance was the ultimate loss on the show for Team Arrow and not capturing Ricardo Diaz was the icing on the cake. Team Arrow will have to pick up the pieces and start over in order to capture Diaz.  

Personally, for Rene, Captain Lance meant a lot to him. Lance represented the first glimmer of hope in a world where Rene was always dealt a bad hand. I’m sure Rene will always keep a special place in his heart for Captain Lance.  

Spoiler

In exchange, you are getting Roy back. What excites you most about this addition? 
Rick: Yes, excited that Colton Haynes joins the cast again. I think having Roy Harper as a part of the show will take us back to where the show first started. Interestingly enough, Rene Ramirez and Roy Harper are from the “Glades”. I’m sure on some level there’s a good connection to be had from two good guys from a tough neighborhood. 

*  *  *
There is also the Earth 2 Laurel who is now seemingly on Team Arrow. Would everyone be able to forgive her and work with her - especially the members of the split team?  
Rick: In comic books having the villain team up with the heroes is a timeless idea. If Black Siren does team up with Team Arrow it would not be a shock. What’s fun is how does this complicate things in the future for Team Arrow? We’ll see.  

What do you hope for Rene in the coming season? Maybe a love story?  
Rick: I hope for Rene in the new season to continue to peel back layers for the audience to get to know a character with a strong vibe and energy. The juxtaposition for Rene is played out through the season with his daughter. You see how much he cares for Zoe and also you see how strong he holds his position with everyone else. I believe we will continue to see just what makes Rene tick and how much of a great hero he is. 
*  *  *
How excited do you get about the prospect of crossovers in the Arrowverse? You are yet to be on 'The Flash' and 'Supergirl'? How hard are you going to rally for that?   
Rick: I remember back in season 5 learning about the crossovers and when I was told I would be in it with 'Supergirl' and 'The Flash', I was very happy. I so wanted Wild Dog to converse with these great heroes. It’s a long time coming for Wild Dog who started out with his own comic back in the 80’s.

Spoiler

I really hope we get to see Wild Dog fight alongside “Batgirl” this year who will make her appearance in our “Crossover”. 

Could you tell us a little bit about your audition process for landing the role on 'Arrow'? What excited you the most about Rene?  
Rick: Well, when I auditioned for 'Arrow', I read for a part with a different name than Rene Ramirez. When I got the part, our costume designer Maya Mani said: 'What are your sizes? I need to fit you for a mask as well.' I replied: “Excuse me? I think you have the wrong character? I’m playing so and so.” Maya says: 'No honey your playing “Wild Dog”'. 

I immediately became excited. Googled Wild Dog and the rest is history. What excites me about Rene is his energy. I grew up loving 'Wolverine' and 'The Punisher'. I feel like Rene/Wild Dog has the same energy.  

Edited June 7, 2018 by tv echo

[KenyaJ]

Quote

With Diggle (David Ramsey) back as the Green Arrow and the team together again

I agree with most of the article, but huh? Nothing about the finale suggested that Diggle was going to be the Green Arrow and DR has said he won't be in the costume next season.

Quote

Also does anyone else think William should meet Rene’s daughter?

I'm pretty sure we don't need Teen Arrow 2.0.

[statsgirl]

While the actress playing Zoe is not bad, the last thing this show needs is scenes of William with Zoe.

12 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Sara already knows Quentin wanted to find the light within this Laurel and it was something that she practically supported. Seeing her at the hospital and knowing that she is the one who contacted her, there is no reason for her to be deeply suspicious about her intentions.

I don't want to belabour this, but how does Sara know that Quentin wanted to find the light with Laurel2?  Was there an offscreen conversation between Quentin and Sara referenced?  When did Sara say that it was something she supported?

Also was it established that it was Laurel2 who called Sara rather than Oliver or Felicity who know Sara and have got in touch with her before, or Lyla through ARGUS?  How would L2 have known how to get in touch with Sara?