The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[tv echo]

8 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Sara Netzley, who wrote the Arrow recaps for EW.com last season, is part of a new podcast talking about all the TV shows based on DC comics. So far they haven't talked about Arrow much, but the big news I heard from their latest episode is that she has been assigned to write ew.com's Supergirl recaps this year and won't be covering Arrow anymore. 

I'll be beyond annoyed if Sara Netzley was re-assigned to Supergirl recaps because she's female and if a male reviewer is assigned to recap Arrow.

Edited September 30, 2017 by tv echo

[Soulfire]

[tv echo]

Although I don't agree with everything written, I'm posting this S5 review because, surprisingly, this reviewer liked S4 more than S5 (which is a rare opinion) and thought that Oliver/GA is more interesting when he's not being an idiot (thus disagreeing with MG)...

Arrow: The Complete Fifth Season (Blu-Ray + Digital)
By Creature of War on Sep 27th, 2017
http://www.readjunk.com/reviews/blu-ray-reviews/arrow-the-complete-5th-season-blu-ray-digital/

Quote

Season 4 was my personal favorite season of “Arrow” due to the clash of the impossible opposites. On one side you had a street level archer that handles his battles with his fists and arrows going up against a terrifically campy Bond-style villain who brings the elements of magic and the supernatural to the forefront. You loved to hate Damien Darhk! Much to my dismay, season 5 repeats the same trope that has been plaguing “The Flash” series…a repeat villain of the same class type. I don’t believe that I found any interest whatsoever in the Prometheus character because the show has done it before and it didn’t quite work out that well. Thankfully Malcolm Merlyn was able to be saved as he graduated from not just being an evil archer to a character that is torn between revenge and his daughter Thea.

Prometheus didn’t have much to differentiate from all of the evil archer stories of Merlyn’s. It was predictable that he would somehow be twenty steps ahead of Oliver and know every single thing he would try to say or do. I could almost picture Prometheus hanging out around Oliver’s place on trash day and digging through his old magazines and scraps of food in order to “know everything”. The Prometheus story arc went on for the entire season…which seemed like an eternity.
*  *  *
What did I enjoy about season 5 since it was mostly “all Prometheus all the time”? I really enjoyed the flashbacks this season as we got to learn of another part of Oliver’s past and his dealings with the Russian mafia group known as the Bratva and the return of one of Oliver’s old friends, Anatoly Knyazev. Anatoly has always been one of my favorite characters on the show since the first season when he helped Oliver escape from the tanker prison. The flashbacks this season follow Oliver’s journey to prove himself to the Bratva as he seeks to gain membership and the benefits that come with it regarding his mission of atonement. By the end of the season you see the rift that is formed by two former friends and their differing opinions on loyalty, honor and friendship. Episode 18 “Disbanded” brings things to a head and stands out as my favorite episode of the season that was not titled “Invasion!”.
*  *  *
As the show that started everything that is now known as the “Arrowverse” on CW with a dark and gritty hero/vigilante show, “Arrow” has done a lot of things right. But there have also been a few hiccups along the way. Personally, season 5 is one of those hiccups. Instead of moving forward with Oliver in a different place in life and with the positive attitude and confidence he gained in season 4, everything was swept out from under him with a rehash of an evil archer villain in Prometheus along with an uninspired season full of “been-there-done-that” surprises. The Green Arrow is much more interesting when he’s not made to look like the villain and or a complete idiot at every opportunity. If only he’d learn something along the way.

Edited October 1, 2017 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

It's a strange review.  I can't quite put my finger on it though, maybe it's the lack of interest in any psychological aspect of the show.  The fact that he/she's favourite part each year are the crossovers should have been my first clue.

[tv echo]

And yet no complaint about Diggle being added to the GA comics (and now being in the GA Rebirth comics)...

Interview: Author Richard Gray on the Evolution of Green Arrow  
BY KLOPA ROBIN   2 OCTOBER 2017
http://deathrattlesports.com/interview-author-richard-gray-on-the-evolution-of-green-arrow/83949

Quote

Thanks to The CW’s Arrow, Green Arrow has been enjoying a surge of popularity with the billionaire archer stepping a bit out of the shadows as a supporting player for the Justice League to anchoring his own Arrowverse of shows and stories on television.

But for all the popularity of his current incarnation, Green Arrow has a long and complex history that many fans aren’t familiar with. In his new book “Moving Target: The History and Evolution of Green Arrow”, author Richard Gray digs deep into the Oliver Queen’s character history and how he has evolved and changed from a side character with a muddled origin to the hero we know today.
*  *  *
How do you think that the tv show is impacting how writers are presenting Green Arrow in comics?
Gray: I think directly. I think speaking more broadly on DC there is an attempt to align the comic book counterparts with the corporate blockbuster tv version of the characters. We’ve certainly seen that in numerous reboots even in the last five six years. Green Arrow up until very recently was very much an attempt to be a bit the reckless young character that he is in the tv show and sort of this weird amalgam of batman and with a high-tech spin on him which is a very weird place for me as a long time Green Arrow reader to see that in the comics after the post-Flashpoint reboot. But he is very much I think literally to the point where the writers of the tv show were actually pinning some stories and the characters from the tv show, who were born in the tv show, were making their way into the comic book. Now you’ve had some great writers like Jeff Lemire who’s interviewed in the book who actually have taken those characters and given them a DC Universe spin. I think that’s where it’s more interesting that those two things can influence each other in like a creative sharing rather than just being ‘we’d better stick in Felicity because she’s popular with the fans.’

Edited October 3, 2017 by tv echo

[EmilyBettFan]

Well I left a little something on that site.

[Delphi]

Oh,  no,  there's a fan favourite character that works well and is basically an audience surrogate,  how awful.   Shut up.   There's a reason characters like Felicity or Tim Drake or Stephanie Brown lasted so long.   People like to read/ watch them. 

[LeighAn]

On 03/10/2017 at 0:11 AM, tv echo said:

And yet no complaint about Diggle being added to the GA comics (and now being in the GA Rebirth comics)...

Interview: Author Richard Gray on the Evolution of Green Arrow  
BY KLOPA ROBIN   2 OCTOBER 2017
http://deathrattlesports.com/interview-author-richard-gray-on-the-evolution-of-green-arrow/83949

Rude much? 

But hey at least they acknowledge that Felicity an original character is more popular then their Robin Hood men in tights comic book character.

[tv echo]

No Arrow spoilers, but another show's spoiler - online poll: "Should an Olicity wedding happen this season?" (current results: Yes 74%, No 27%)...

'Shiptober: Is Arrow season 6 when an Olicity wedding could happen?
OCTOBER 4, 2017  Mrs. Carter
https://cartermatt.com/269752/shiptober-arrow-season-6-olicity-wedding-happen/

Quote

The case for the Olicity wedding - The big one is that you care about these two characters and want to see them finally take the big jump to the next stage of their lives. Maybe you feel frustration over what happened over the course of the season 4 and see this as redemption; even if you're not an Olicity fan, maybe you see this as the two parties having their love lives stabilized so that the show can focus on some things other than will-they-or-won't-they romance. We think that settling this could be the best of both worlds in that sense.

We do personally think that, with this being season 6, this is the time in which Oliver and Felicity should understand each other enough to know that they're better having an honest, open relationship with each other. Stop with the secrets and actually use each other as partners. If they can do that we can only imagine how effectively they'll be as a duo. The wedding is a symbol of the commitment they'll be making in order to have that happen.

The case against it - Maybe you 'ship Oliver with someone else, or maybe you just feel like there shouldn't be an abundance of weddings in the CW superhero universe this year.

 

Given that we are getting the WestAllen wedding presumably during the upcoming crossover, there could be time to have an Olicity wedding happen down the road to where it is its own singular event and not overshadowed by anything else.

Also, Oliver may not be too concentrated on a wedding right now - his relationship with Felicity was pretty ambiguous in the finale, and to go along with that he may be focusing on being a father to William right now.

Edited October 4, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Another review of Arrow S5 blu-ray...

Season 5 Is Visually Stunning, But Can’t Avoid Its Own Plot Potholes
J.C. Macek III     3 October 2017
http://www.popmatters.com/review/arrow-s5-visually-stunning-but-cant-avoid-its-own-plot-potholes/

Quote

In the first episode of Arrow‘s fifth season, the title character—the hero—commits murder. This serves as an early reminder that Arrow, detailing the rise and career of DC Comics’ emerald archer Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell), is an extremely violent show. Not only is this murder brutal and painful (a broken neck) but is the killing of a corrupt cop at the hands of Star City’s own mayor. While its fellow DC series on Fox, Gotham, features the villainous Penguin as the mayor of its titular city, Arrow‘s Star City voted in its most notable superhero, one that, at times, acts like a villain.

Of course, this is the result of five years of evolution with this show. Arrow could have featured a purely heroic character, with no dark side and always making the right choices. That may have been more palatable for some audiences, and would have attracted a younger demographic, but that not the Arrow we got (nor one I’d want to see). With Gotham (which isn’t part of the Arrowverse) examining Batman’s origins, Arrow has often made Oliver Queen something of a stand-in for the caped crusader. The big difference is that even as some storylines are borrowed from Batman, Arrow follows Oliver Queen’s biography from the comic books; unlike (some versions of) Batman, Queen has no compunctions about killing the bad guys.
*  *  *
Having lost the prior team due to retirement, reassignment, or death, Oliver’s best option (while still running the city) is recruiting these new vigilantes into the new Team Arrow, supplemented by his friend John “Spartan” Diggle (David Ramsey). This leads to an exciting season of cat-and-mouse, surprise side-switching, and mistaken identity. When the identity of a certain character seems to be obvious (even to comic fans), it proves to be something completely different. The guessing game is fun, and smartly ends halfway through the season before it becomes too tedious. That said, the menace doesn’t end when the identities are revealed.

All the while we are reminded of the violence our title character has committed and continues to commit, even as he sanctimoniously lectures others about said violence. Often, it isn’t clear who’s really confused: Oliver Queen or the show’s writers. In one episode, Team Arrow fights through an army of henchmen to get to their boss. As the team is surrounded by the dead bodies of the hired help, we’re treated to a straight-faced lecture about how a certain character doesn’t have to cross the line to kill the actual bad guy. Apparently bad guys are useless cannon fodder in the Arrowverse, but really, really bad guys are precious lives to be preserved.

Of course, this sameness is nothing new. Much as The Flash must have an evil speedster each season to match with its star, Arrow must feature archery-themed heroes and villains each season because… well, it’s in the title. There are even lectures about how bows and arrows can be preferable to guns due to efficiency, diversity, and silence. Yet Oliver himself often eschews the Green Arrow costume to raid a place while wearing a black mask and wielding a firearm.
*  *  *
Ragman faces a similar issue; he can do just about anything, and yet remains a junior member of Green Arrow’s team. Admittedly, Rory Regan is depicted as a newcomer who hasn’t learned everything about his powers yet, but he’s also a guy who can do almost anything; not once but twice his suit is able to deflect and even contain the blast of a nuclear weapon. How then does Ragman not unmask Prometheus with the flip of his cape in his first appearance? He does just about every other amazing thing over the course of his story arc; he should be solving virtually every crime in the city in about 17 seconds.
*  *  *
Take a step back from these high-octane episodes, and it starts to fall apart. The quality performances and fast-paced storytelling make for a dark and thrilling show that addresses a series of moral questions. Yet a deeper look at the episodes implies that the writers threw every ball they could think of into the air and tried like hell to catch them all before the final episode.

They don’t quite succeed. Major characters vanish and are forgotten. Logical characters do remarkably illogical things, and the plot too often relies on coincidence and convenience to work. It may be exciting in the moment, but things don’t remain cohesive with repeated viewings. Many of these contrived moments are played for shock that covers up the lack of logic. It works in the immediate viewing, but ultimately is nowhere near seamless.
*  *  *
Arrow is still a quality show, and some fifth season episodes feature some of the best performances of the entire series. It’s still visually stunning, and the spectacle frequently papers over the plot holes. Unfortunately, those plot holes are still there, and big enough for much more than an arrow to shoot its way through.

Edited October 4, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

TV Legends: What Arrow Villain Was Going to be Onomatopoeia?
October 6, 2017  by Brian Cronin
http://www.cbr.com/arrow-villain-onomatopoeia/

Quote

At the end of the first season of Arrow, the producers planned to use Onomatopoeia as a villain. However, Andrew Kreisberg later noted when the episode actually came out, “Originally, we were going to try to do Onomatopoeia, a villain from Kevin Smith’s run, but Kevin apparently said in an interview that there was no way to bring that character to television and film — and after a while we agreed with him!”

Instead, Onomatopoeia became Mister Blank, played by J. August Richards of Angel fame…
*  *  *
Outside of the whole “not doing onomatopoeia every time he talks,” Mister Blank was very similar to Onomatopoeia, in that he didn’t really speak much and he used a silencer pistol just like Onomatopoeia. He was a good fill-in for the comic book villain.

Smith, by the way, apparently later changed his mind on the topic, noting:

“I wouldn’t want to write on ‘Flash.’ I would, though, like to write on ‘Arrow’ … I would love to jump in for a one or two episode arc just to bring that Onomatopoeia character to life. That would be so badass – I created this character in the comics and then to do a live-action version of it that fit into their universe, fit into the run of their show? That would be exciting to me. That’s the one I can get my head around writing, but ‘Flash,’ whenever they bring me back, I think I prefer somebody else doing it.”

Edited October 6, 2017 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

Please, let someone keep Kevin Smith from writing an Arrow episode!   It would be Masks! Masks! Masks! all the time.

This is from March but I don't think it's been posted yet:

Why Felicity Smoak is important for women and the STEM field

by Cass Lang (with citations!)

Quote

Felicity’s storyline throughout the series thus far (seasons 1–4) is unique to television in that the viewer is able to watch her grow professionally and break through the glass ceiling, which refers to the invisible impenetrable barriers faced by women as they attempt to move up the corporate ladder. In season 1, she was an IT-girl and guest star. In season 2, as the actress was upgraded to series regular, the character was promoted to Executive Assistant and fulfilled the role of “girl Friday” to the show’s lead. In season 3, the company she worked for was bought out and renamed “Palmer Technologies” where Felicity was re-hired to serve as Vice President. Finally, in season 4, Felicity serves as “Palmer Technologies’” CEO. Over the course of the show, viewers have seen her go from feeling overqualified for her position, to successfully running an entire company.

Women currently occupy more than half of all management and professional positions, make up nearly half of the entire U.S. labor force and earn nearly 60% of all bachelor’s and master’s degrees. Yet, women remain drastically underrepresented in positions of higher power. Women currently hold only 4% of CEO positions at S&P 500 companies. Which means that only 20 women hold CEO positions at these companies. (Catalyst) This statistic has only increased by 1% in the last 7 years. According to HuffingtonPost.com, there are so few women CEOs that if you do a Google image search for “CEO,” the first woman to pop up is CEO Barbie, a doll invented by “The Onion” in its article titled “CEO Barbie Criticized For Promoting Unrealistic Career Images.” In addition, there is a similar gender gap present in Felicity’s specialized field of Science, Technology, Engineering and Math in regard to careers as well as degrees. According to GirlsWhoCode.com, in middle school, 74% of girls express interest in STEM, but only 0.4% of them will select computer science as their major in college. Surprisingly, over the past few decades, the presence of women in the field has decreased. In 1984, women made up 37% of computer science graduates but now they only represent as much as 18% and although women now make up 50% of the workforce, they hold less than 25% of STEM jobs.

[tv echo]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

This is from March but I don't think it's been posted yet:

Why Felicity Smoak is important for women and the STEM field

by Cass Lang (with citations!)

Thanks for posting this article! I can't believe I missed it back then.

[Mellowyellow]

Flabbergasted at who is at number 2!!!!! SHOCKED!!!!! And I'm not mocking!

http://comicbook.com/2017/10/06/10-best-arrowverse-moments/

[TrueMyth]

Do I have to play the video to see the list or is it showing up strange on my phone?  What is number 2?

[JamieLynn832002]

3 minutes ago, TrueMyth said:

Do I have to play the video to see the list or is it showing up strange on my phone?  What is number 2?

You have to watch the video to see the list. Number 2 is Oliver and Felicity.

[EmilyBettFan]

8 minutes ago, TrueMyth said:

Do I have to play the video to see the list or is it showing up strange on my phone?  What is number 2?

Don't ask me to say that I don't love you. ?

Edited October 10, 2017 by EmilyBettFan

[tv echo]

On 10/9/2017 at 4:17 AM, Mellowyellow said:

Flabbergasted at who is at number 2!!!!! SHOCKED!!!!! And I'm not mocking!

http://comicbook.com/2017/10/06/10-best-arrowverse-moments/

If you don't want to go to the article link, here's just the video...

[tv echo]

There's more than what I've quoted (but no spoilers)...

Stephen Amell really, really hates spoilers
By Lucía Hernández, MWN   Published : October 09, 2017 
https://www.metro.us/entertainment/tv/stephen-amell-arrow-season-6-premiere

Quote

First things first. Can you tell us a little about the new season? What can we expect?
Oh! About the season that we can’t talk about? About all the complaints I’ve received on my Facebook page because we haven’t promoted the new season — because we are literally not allowed to talk about it?
*  *  *
Do you ever feel any kind of nervousness over the reaction that those passionate comic fans have?
When we created this character, we didn’t try to make it an exact copy of the Green Arrow comic, but we did seek inspiration from people passionate about the story, who had enough knowledge of it build a series. And many of the things that contributed to the series at the beginning is just due to the nature and the structure of a television show.

Edited October 10, 2017 by tv echo

[lemotomato]

We're losing another female Arrow reviewer :(

[Mellowyellow]

oh noes I liked her reviews! 

[tv echo]

From a Syfy article published today - no spoilers quoted below (warning: headline and rest of article are spoilery if you go to article link below)...

Quote

"Going into Season 5, knowing that we were going to have our 100th episode, we started making a list of all the things that we'd done on the show and didn't want to repeat and then also things that we'd never done on the show before," Guggenheim recalls. "And one of the things that occurred to us was that we'd never done a proper cliffhanger to end the season. As we got deeper and deeper into plotting out the whole Prometheus plot, it made sense to us. It came together organically, which is really how we try to do things."

That's a perfect illustration of how the producers start the season with a specific story in mind, but take a nimble approach to plotting. "It's generally been more a process of refinement than it is change," Guggenheim says. "We never want to lose an awesome idea just because it wasn't part of our original plan. The audience doesn't know what our original plan was, they only know what's cool. We always give ourselves the option of throwing everything out that we planned and going with a last-minute inspiration if it fits the definition of something we want to do."
*  *  *
For example, in Season 2 the goal in the writers room had always been for Oliver to stop using lethal force in his crime-fighting crusade to save Starling City, and that Deathstroke would be the season's central adversary. "We knew that we wanted to get Oliver to a point where he had every reason in the world to kill Deathstroke and would choose not to," Guggenheim says. "What we didn't have was that reason to kill Deathstroke. The idea that he was going to kill [Oliver's mother] Moira came very late in the game. We as writers give ourselves permission to change things."
*  *  *
And while this season hasn't even premiered, plans are already afoot for next year. "The way it tends to work with Arrow is that as we get into the back half of the year, past the midseason premiere, we're still breaking the current season, but in the writers room our minds will wander to the next season," Guggenheim says. "That has happened even earlier in our process than as is typical. We actually already have ideas for things we want to do Season 7. We're way ahead of where we typically are with those ideas."

(source)

Edited October 11, 2017 by tv echo

[bethy]

From the article: 

Quote

Despite the many people he has saved, Oliver (Stephen Amell) has, after all, seen the deaths of his father, mother, best friend and ex-girlfriend (among many, many others).

 

I read "best friend and ex-girlfriend" as one person and had a moment of "When was Laurel ever Oliver's best friend?!" Then I took a breath and realized it should have been "... best friend, and ex-girlfriend." #whytheoxfordcommaisimportant #writingnerd

[catrox14]

42 minutes ago, bethy said:

From the article: 

 

I read "best friend and ex-girlfriend" as one person and had a moment of "When was Laurel ever Oliver's best friend?!" Then I took a breath and realized it should have been "... best friend, and ex-girlfriend." #whytheoxfordcommaisimportant #writingnerd

ALL HAIL THE OXFORD COMMA

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, bethy said:

From the article: 

 

I read "best friend and ex-girlfriend" as one person and had a moment of "When was Laurel ever Oliver's best friend?!" Then I took a breath and realized it should have been "... best friend, and ex-girlfriend." #whytheoxfordcommaisimportant #writingnerd

I'm a proponent of using the Oxford comma only when there's a possibility of confusion. My editors disagree, LOL!

20 hours ago, lemotomato said:

We're losing another female Arrow reviewer :(

A friend was pointing that out to me last night ... that's Nora and Sara Netzley gone this season. Arrow lost Laura Hurley and the Vulture lady last season. There's still the Fangirlish ladies but that leaves a lot of very anti-Olicity (male) reviewers. 

[statsgirl]

8 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

There's still the Fangirlish ladies but that leaves a lot of very anti-Olicity (male) reviewers. 

Hopefully when

Spoiler

Olicity is a done deal and married

 they'll realize how stupid they look constantly railing against it and move on.,

[Angel12d]

IDK, I've seen a few reviewers okay with Olicity, it's just the drama they had a problem with, which is understandable. I hated that awful baby mama drama/break-up, too. And Olicity are at their best when they're just allowed to be cute, flirty, supportive, heart eyes, which I think they'll be getting back to now. So I guess we'll see. (It's like after 520 aired, I did see many say how they'd be totally cool with them if they wrote them like that all the time, where their natural chemistry is allowed to shine.)

It does suck to lose more female reviewers though. I'm kinda bored of reading what men have to say all the time. There definitely needs to be more variety.

[tv echo]

This writer has been anti-Olicity in the past, so I was surprised by his #10 below (no spoilers)...

Arrow Season 6: Everything We Want To See!
Andy Behbakht at October 12, 2017
https://www.tvfanatic.com/slideshows/arrow-season-6-everything-we-want-to-see

Quote

With Arrow Season 6 Episode 1 set to air tonight, we have put together our wish list for what we want to see. Will any of it happen? Well they better! 
*  *  *
10. A Healthy Dose Of The Oliver/Felicity Romance

Before I go on, I need to make something clear. I have never been the biggest fan of the romance between Oliver and Felicity. I probably never will, but we all know that it’s inevitable in one way or another.

At some point in Arrow Season 6 I expect Oliver and Felicity to get together again. If the show is going to do that romance again then I have only one request.

Just do it right this time. The problem the first time was that their romance pretty much became the main thing with Arrow in Season 3 and Season 4.

I don’t want to see that romance take over the show again. In addition to that, I don’t want that story to be Felicity’s only arc because she is so much more than just a love interest.

Even though I think Felicity can do better than Oliver, I digress. So if we are doing another round of this couple then I want a healthy dose. I look at the Arrow Season 4 premiere as a perfect example and I’ll leave it at that.

1. Actual Consequences
2. A Victory For John Diggle
3. Happiness For Mister Terrific
4. Vigilante's Secret Identity To Make Sense
5. Nyssa Al Ghul's Survival
6. The Return Of Thea Queen As Speedy
7. A Redemption Arc For Black Siren
8. Another Birds Of Prey-Esque Episode
9. Kevin Smith To Direct An Episode
10. A Healthy Dose Of The Oliver/Felicity Romance
11. Restoring Queen Consolidated
12. Healthy Dose Of Relevant Flashbacks
13. Doppelgangers
14. A Happier Green Arrow

Edited October 12, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’: 7 Funniest Felicity Smoak lines
August 11, 2017 Reagan Pierce 
https://www.purefandom.com/2017/08/11/arrow-felicity-smoak-innuendo/

Quote

Arrow’s Felicity Smoak is, well, a total badass. She’s a hero in her own right and has probably the largest fanbase of any character in the Arrowverse. But it’s important to embrace your roots – before she was a CEO, Overwatch, or the potential future Mrs. Queen, Felicity was Arrow’s main source of humor. The funniest part of Felicity’s personality has always been her accidental innuendo (which is usually directed at Oliver.) Let’s take a look at the seven funniest times Felicity’s brain has betrayed her.

7. “It needs to be dark in here for me to do this.”
6. “I want to see it. And by “it” I mean your speed. In case you thought I was talking about something else, which I was not.”
5. “All I did was stick something in you.”
4. “Maybe he thinks he penetrates just fine.”
3. “You know I imagined you saying that to me under very different circumstances… very platonic circumstances.”
2. “I love spending the night with you.”
1. “It feels really good having you inside me. And by you, I mean your voice. And by me, I mean my ear… I’m going to stop talking. Right now.”

Edited October 12, 2017 by tv echo

[Mellowyellow]

Haha I love line number 1. I always wonder if he ever teases her about it when they're having silly sex. 

[strikera0]

A new IGN article:

Quote

ARROW: BLACK CANARY NEEDS AN OVERHAUL IN SEASON 6

Will the real Black Canary please stand up?

There's plenty of reason to be excited about the return of Arrow this week. The series is coming off its best episode ever, a dramatic season finale that wrapped up Oliver Queen's five-year journey and left the majority of the show's cast in imminent mortal danger. And even though it's apparent now that the majority of Team Arrow will survive Prometheus' final attack, the stage is set for a drastically different sixth season. But if the series is going to take advantage of that clean slate, it's going to need to prioritize one character in particular - Black Canary.

Black Canary has always been a particular sore spot for Arrow. The series has never given us a true, direct adaptation of the Black Canary of the comics. Instead, the Arrow writers have essentially fractured the character into pieces and spawned a number of different offshoots. There's Laurel Lance, crusading lawyer-turned-costumed vigilante. There's her sister Sara, a party-loving college girl molded into an elite assassin. There's Dinah Drake, a a completely unrelated character who just happens to have the right background and metahuman power to take up the Black Canary mantle. And that's not even counting Laurel's Earth-2 doppelganger, Black Siren, or Evelyn Sharp's brief tenure as Black Canary.

Arrow has enough Black Canaries to build an entire team, but none of them replicate everything that makes the comic book version great. Much of what makes Sara such a valuable addition to DC's Legends of Tomorrow has less to do with her Black Canary ties and more with her ongoing struggle to redefine herself after her brush with death. Each version has shades of the classic Black Canary without truly doing the character justice.

To be fair, there's no law saying the series has to pattern itself directly after DC's Green Arrow and Black Canary comics. Arrow has made a number of major and minor changes to the source material, some of which have wound up circling around and inspiring similar changes in the comics. But the lack of a singular, cohesive take on Black Canary is definitely a recurring weak point for the series. In particular, the show has been harmed by its lack of a lasting Green Arrow/Black Canary romance. Short of Superman and Lois Lane, there's no more enduring power couple in the DC Universe. That romance is easily the strongest element of either character. It makes them both better characters. It's no coincidence that DC's Green Arrow comic picked up in quality considerably once the DC Rebirth relaunch rekindled the passionate connection between Oliver Queen and Dinah Lance.

At this point, fans may as well write off the possibility of Arrow doing justice to that romance. That ship has pretty much sailed, what with Earth-1 Laurel's death and the emphasis on Ollie and Felicity's relationship in recent seasons. We may never get a truly comic-accurate take on Black Canary in the Arrowverse, but the least Arrow's writers can do is settle on one specific take and stick to it. The Black Canary mantle needs to stop being treated as a revolving door for various female vigilante characters and instead treated as a permanent, lasting member of Team Arrow. Give fans a chance to connect with one version of Black Canary for a change.

Unfortunately, it's unclear whether Season 6 will actually deliver on this need. Both Juliana Harkavy's Dinah Drake and Katie Cassidy's Laurel Lance (the Black Siren version) will be major players this season. As it is, Season 5 often struggled to give Dinah her proper due. The character often seemed relegated to the background as the writers focused the majority of their attention on the Oliver Queen/Adrian Chase feud. Will Season 6 do better by Dinah if it's forced to juggle both her and Laurel at the same time? Does the show actually need two Black Canaries when it so often struggles to handle one at a time?

Hopefully, this season will finally do right by Black Canary and develop an interesting dynamic between Dinah and Laurel. There's potential worth exploring there, but doing so requires the writers to make Black Canary a more vital piece of the puzzle than they generally have in the past. It's fine if Arrow's Black Canary is different from the source material, so long as she's treated as every bit the vital character she is in the comics.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/10/12/arrow-black-canary-needs-an-overhaul-in-season-6

 

Edited October 12, 2017 by strikera0

[quarks]

23 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

A new IGN article:

Short of Superman and Lois Lane, there's no more enduring power couple in the DC Universe. 

Heads over to Box Office Mojo out of curiosity, to see how that quaint, feeble couple introduced in January 1942 are doing.

$821.2 million worldwide box office, hmm? You don't say. Keep the struggle going, Diana Prince and Steve Trevor! Some day - some day - you, too, might count as an enduring power couple in the DC Universe!!!!  MIGHT!

[Angel12d]

Quote

It's fine if Arrow's Black Canary is different from the source material, so long as she's treated as every bit the vital character she is in the comics.

Eh. The trouble I have with this is we are on s6 now and I kind of begrudge the idea that Dinah somehow has to become super vital to the show simply because comics. That might be weird to say but part of me feels like this kind of thing has to be earned and plucking someone from nowhere and handing her the mantle because she's a meta with a canary cry just makes me side eye the whole thing. 

There's no denying they messed up with this character but building her up to be the most important of all is not the way to go about rectifying it, IMO. 

(Also, personally, I still think they should've stuck with Sara as BC and she could have just been the BC of the Arrowverse. It always seemed to me like BC should be off doing her own thing with her own team.)

Edited October 12, 2017 by Angel12d

[lemotomato]

33 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

IGN:
It's fine if Arrow's Black Canary is different from the source material, so long as she's treated as every bit the vital character she is in the comics.

"It's fine if BC is different from the comics as long as she's just like how she is in the comics"

5 minutes ago, quarks said:

Heads over to Box Office Mojo out of curiosity, to see how that quaint, feeble couple introduced in January 1942 are doing.

$821.2 million worldwide box office, hmm? You don't say. Keep the struggle going, Diana Prince and Steve Trevor! Some day - some day - you, too, might count as an enduring power couple in the DC Universe!!!!  MIGHT!

Catwoman and Batman would also like a word

[scarynikki12]

And Iris and Barry. 

[lemotomato]

I'm particularly gleeful that Iris/Barry, Steve/Diana, Lois/Clark, Bruce/Selina, Aquaman/Mera, Hal/Carol and heck, even Joker/Harley (as much as I think they shouldn't be a couple) are in movies and there isn't even a whisper of GA/BC in the DCEU. Tell me again how they're the most iconic couple? 

Edited October 12, 2017 by lemotomato

[MaisyDaisy]

They might not admit it, but I think the crux of some peoples position is that they have never really wanted a Green Arrow/Arrow show, they either wanted a BC centric show or a joint lead GA/BC, and thats purely 'because comics'. The problem is they miscast the BC role from day one, and were stuck with a character that just didnt fit with the rest of the cast/characters, oh and you know- the show was focused on Oliver anyway and was never going to be the BC centric show they even wanted.

But they do have a point, they should have either left Laurel in the background, or not replaced/pushed her character or replacement, because the role of BC in Arrow is like a sore that has been picked at, its a nasty mess.

[scarynikki12]

I have more thoughts but I'm taking them to Relationships.

[thegirlsleuth]

Another issue is the way that Arrow is structured:  Green Arrow is the hero and everyone else are sidekicks.  The problem is, Black Canary should never be a sidekick.  But I don't see them re-balancing the whole show, so the article writer is in for some disappointment.

[LeighAn]

I literally had never heard of Green Arrow and Black Canary until Smallville and didn't even know they were a couple until Arrow. So yep they are super iconic! They are like Barbie and Ken levels of iconic!

#Imsosorryplasticdollsforslanderingyournamelikethat  

[Balaclava]

 "......In particular, the show has been harmed by its lack of a lasting Green Arrow/Black Canary romance (1). Short of Superman and Lois Lane, there's no more enduring power couple in the DC Universe.(2) That romance is easily the strongest element of either character. It makes them both better characters.(3) It's no coincidence that DC's Green Arrow comic picked up in quality considerably once the DC Rebirth relaunch rekindled the passionate connection between Oliver Queen and Dinah Lance.(4)....."

1- No it hasn't, if anything one can argue it suffered every single time it tried the pairing regardless of who BC was at the time

2- I just did some serious eye rolling, i don't think it's even necessary to list more enduring power couples than ga/bc

3- I can't think of a single (REAL) Black Canary fan (from the ones i know) that would say such a thing. BC is better off without Ollie, she's stronger than him, and excuse me the fans of the pairing but she has no need to have that drag in her life.

4- Really? It didn't pick up in quality unless you're a big fan of cheesy soap operas (sorry!) and it certainly didn't help with the sales either 25K going into monthly sales is a step away from a cancellation if GJ wakes up on the wrong side of the bed one morning

My Batcat + Aquamera heart is offended af by the way :p 

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, Balaclava said:

1- No it hasn't, if anything one can argue it suffered every single time it tried the pairing regardless of who BC was at the time

This is the problem whenever I read articles that mention a GA/BC romance on the show. Who exactly is the BC in these scenarios? Sara? E1 Laurel? Dinah? E2 LL (in the improbable scenario of a redemption at some point)? The next Dinah/Lance/Laurel/etc. to show up in Star City and put on black leather? 

[Balaclava]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

This is the problem whenever I read articles that mention a GA/BC romance on the show. Who exactly is the BC in these scenarios? Sara? E1 Laurel? Dinah? E2 LL (in the improbable scenario of a redemption at some point)? The next Dinah/Lance/Laurel/etc. to show up in Star City and put on black leather? 

They don't care, anyone that wears the BC mantle is ok to them and that's disgusting to me. I've been reading B****S*** like this for years, it's been too many years i'm tired. Let it go! 

How hard can it be to understand that in Arrow universe the LI is someone else not BC? 6 yrs, 5 (argue about the how long if you must) of which it's been all about Felicity/Olicity.

Am i the only one that finds baffling how these people, that watch this show for a living and write reviews, can say "Olicity came out of nowhere" LOL where were they looking at? Not the screen it seems.

[Angel12d]

1 minute ago, Balaclava said:

Am i the only one that finds baffling how these people, that watch this show for a living and write reviews, can say "Olicity came out of nowhere" LOL where were they looking at? Not the screen it seems.

I'm convinced they don't actually watch the show properly, or at least ignore what's on screen because they can? It reminds me of when some fans were straight-up convinced that Felicity had drugged and raped Oliver in 320 (you only have to watch that episode to know that's not even remotely true). Or when they say she released the nukes that destroyed Havenrock. They just dismiss show canon because it doesn't fit with their narrative. Same happens with Olicity. They were so convinced that GA/BC were happening that they didn't see the O/F love story unfolding in front of their very eyes.

[lemotomato]

BTW, the that article was written by the guy that reviews Arrow episodes for IGN. Can't wait to see how what he thinks of season 6 /s

[LeighAn]

37 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I'm convinced they don't actually watch the show properly, or at least ignore what's on screen because they can? It reminds me of when some fans were straight-up convinced that Felicity had drugged and raped Oliver in 320 (you only have to watch that episode to know that's not even remotely true). Or when they say she released the nukes that destroyed Havenrock. They just dismiss show canon because it doesn't fit with their narrative. Same happens with Olicity. They were so convinced that GA/BC were happening that they didn't see the O/F love story unfolding in front of their very eyes.

I literally saw a well known Lauriver fan on twitter tweet that Felicity drugged and raped Oliver in 3x20 like yesterday haha. First that's insulting to like actual victims of sexual harassment and rape and second I guess they missed that part where Oliver initiated sex with Felicity and was acting like a man dying thirst while he was at it and Felicity drugged him afterwards.

 

I also don't get the whole Olicity is abusive/toxic narrative? Like I've probably shipped other couples where the toxic tag would be a fair call with some caveats, but of the couples I've shipped Olicity is one of the least offensive and least deserving of being called toxic. I can't think of any instances where they've come close to even the vicinity of toxic/abusive.

 

The only Instant I think might have merit was Oliver fake killing Felicity in 3x22 but even then most of the people I've seen push that narrative are ones levelling it at Felicity not Oliver.

[Mellowyellow]

4 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I also don't get the whole Olicity is abusive/toxic narrative? Like I've probably shipped other couples where the toxic tag would be a fair call with some caveats, but of the couples I've shipped Olicity is one of the least offensive and least deserving of being called toxic. I can't think of any instances where they've come close to even the vicinity of toxic/abusive.

An anti Olicity person went off about Iris after the Flash premiere because Iris was rather competent and business like in that first ep. Said she was reaching Felicity levels of annoying (something to that effect).

I'd say they just have a problem with strong women in general and any woman who dares to have a view or an opinion is abusive.

[formerlyfreedom]

Relationships is the right place to continue the conversation please. Thanks!

[tv echo]

For those of you who don't read the spoilers threads, here is a nonspoilery portion of this OTA interview (nonspoilery if you've seen 601, warning: rest of article includes spoilers)...

Arrow stars react to who survived the explosion
NATALIE ABRAMS  OCTOBER 12, 2017
http://ew.com/tv/2017/10/12/arrow-season-6-premiere-survived-amell-ramsey-rickards/

Quote

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: Diggle and Felicity survived the island explosion! How long had you known? And were you relieved once you found out? 
EMILY BETT RICKARDS: I knew that Felicity was going to be alive. We weren’t sure who was sticking around, but in terms of story, we had a pretty good idea once we were at Comic-Con — and before that. We all talk, so we knew who was coming back. We didn’t really know the story lines of each other’s characters, but we knew we were coming back.
DAVID RAMSEY: It wasn’t quite like the Canary [Katie Cassidy] death. The Canary death, they announced at the beginning of the season that someone was going to die. There was a great scene they shot with the tombstone, we didn’t know whose name was on it. So they said at the beginning of the season that someone would be dead. That was the best behaved cast ever. We were all so f—ing cool. I don’t know how many gift baskets Marc [Guggenheim] got. But this wasn’t like that. It wasn’t quite as ominous. They let us know pretty early on what they planned on doing in terms of who was going, who wasn’t.

Edited October 13, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

On 10/12/2017 at 8:13 PM, lemotomato said:

BTW, the that article was written by the guy that reviews Arrow episodes for IGN. Can't wait to see how what he thinks of season 6 /s

That article is illuminating as to why he (Jesse Scheeden) has tended to be anti-Olicity in the past.

FYI:  Because of the show moving to Thursdays, my posting of media reviews will be delayed. I'm also going to post fewer reviews this season - although it may depend on the episode - because I'm trying to enjoy the show (relatively) free of negativity. That means, not stressing out about ratings or critics or Felicity/Olicity haters.

Edited October 15, 2017 by tv echo