19 Things I Hate About You: How the Duggars Infuriate

[floridamom]

I'm not an ob/gyn, but if I remember, that high risk doc that they consulted with last season, was trying to be kind when he already told her that her chances of completing a viable gestation period were very low...also, as a woman who has had children, I also would think that since she has had so many pregnancies, her pelvic floor muscles, uterus, and ALL that female equipment is not very strong at this point and she wouldn't be able to carry for very long anyway. With her age added into consideration, yes, the quality of her eggs aren't good either. She really needs to be taking some precautions to NOT conceive at this stage of her life. I sincerely don't believe that the Almighty would be angry with her or Jim Bob in the least...Those two need therapy for that alone....

[GEML]

But it also true that women who do not have constant menstruations have, on average, later menopause times because their eggs last longer having not been been shed in ovulations.  It's one of the reasons why women who take the birth control pill which eliminate ovulation have to be extremely careful in their 40's because they are more likely to be "caught" with a baby than women who use the birth control pill by continue to have the monthly period.

Her pelvic floor must be pretty good.  That has never, to my knowledge, been a factor in any of the births.  Not even Josie's.  And if she had a prolapsed uterus, I think that the doctors would have taken that as a chance to perform a hysterectomy, and to be honest, I think Jim Bob would have agreed.  She certainly would not have been doing exercises the way she was before the second miscarriage if her uterus was prolapsed then.  For one thing, it would have been painful, and another, it would have risked the pregnancy.  So I'm not convinced that it's "all falling out."

But oh, I imagine her poor stomach area is a mess.

[mimionthebeach]

But it also true that women who do not have constant menstruations have, on average, later menopause times because their eggs last longer having not been been shed in ovulations.  It's one of the reasons why women who take the birth control pill which eliminate ovulation have to be extremely careful in their 40's because they are more likely to be "caught" with a baby than women who use the birth control pill by continue to have the monthly period.

 

Actually, it's more a case of egg quality over quantity. Only about 0.1% of the eggs we're born with are ever released, so not ovulating doesn't have much of an impact. The problem is that over time the eggs deteriorate and the rate of deterioration is much more significant than ovaries being emptied through ovulation. Genetics is a better indicator of the onset of menopause than the number of ovulations.

 

The surprise pregnancy in one's 40's is usually due to periods becoming irregular and the assumption that it means you're too old to get pregnant. I have a friend who, at 43, was told by her DOCTOR that she probably didn't need to bother with birth control at her age! She was wrong.

[Fosca]

But it also true that women who do not have constant menstruations have, on average, later menopause times because their eggs last longer having not been been shed in ovulations.  It's one of the reasons why women who take the birth control pill which eliminate ovulation have to be extremely careful in their 40's because they are more likely to be "caught" with a baby than women who use the birth control pill by continue to have the monthly period.

 

 

I don't believe this is true.  Age at menopause depend both on heredity (a woman goes through menopause at about the same time her mother did) and on how healthy a woman lives (women who smoke age faster, for instance). 

 

If you know of research that supports what you say, I'd love to read it.  The data I've found from reliable sources (like endocrinology specialists) suggest that birth control doesn't slow down menopause:

 

“Even if you’re using a birth control method that stops ovulation, it doesn’t stop the loss of follicles, the constant process of the ovary taking them from the resting pool of eggs,” Cedars says. “All the follicles available in the cohort that month die away, even if you’re not ovulating, so birth control doesn’t appear to delay menopause."

http://www.webmd.com/menopause/features/menopause-age-prediction?page=2

 

Given how Michelle looks much older than she is (complete with apparent dowager's hump), I suspect she's seriously menopausal.  Too bad we can't get a look at the "menstrual cycle calendar" that apparently was on the refrigerator; that might tell us a lot.

[BitterApple]

 

Given how Michelle looks much older than she is (complete with apparent dowager's hump), I suspect she's seriously menopausal.  Too bad we can't get a look at the "menstrual cycle calendar" that apparently was on the refrigerator; that might tell us a lot.

Michelle has really aged rapidly these last few years. 48 is still young in the big scheme of things, but she's starting to get that stooped look you usually see in very elderly women. Hopefully her doctor has her on supplements or prescriptions to counteract the effects of menopause. It would also be to her benefit to add some weight training to her exercise routine (if she isn't doing so already).

Edited November 10, 2014 by BitterApple

[Higgins]

I think the way she dresses ages her but her skin still looks young.

[GEML]

I've spoken to a lot of OBs and midwives who talk about it. It's one of the frustrating sides of the infertility debate, as women in their 40's either tend to be generally as fertile as most in their 30's or not fertile at all. Because most of our data comes from self-reported infertility clinics, most OBs feel that the data is skewed.

Does this mean I think Michelle is likely to get pregnant? No. But I don't think she's as menopausal as most people think.

[Jellybeans]

Michelle has really aged rapidly these last few years. 48 is still young in the big scheme of things

Hey now, I am going to be 60 next month and I feel young.

Considering things.

[Higgins]

It is so much more complicated than how many eggs you have or even the quality. The production of hormones also declines and progesterone levels fall as you become estrogen dominant. Progesterone is just what it says, pro/gestation. If you are deficient in progesterone you can't support a pregnancy even if you have ovulated. It is very unlikely that Michelle will become and maintain a pregnancy at her age but, not impossible.

[GEML]

Oh, I disagree that Michelle is getting pregnant by proxy through her daughters and daughter-in-law. Her entire identity is wrapped around being pregnant and having these children. I think having to watch other people moving into that space and not being capable of occupying it herself is only going to be harder and harder.

[3girlsforus]

Oh, I disagree that Michelle is getting pregnant by proxy through her daughters and daughter-in-law. Her entire identity is wrapped around being pregnant and having these children. I think having to watch other people moving into that space and not being capable of occupying it herself is only going to be harder and harder.

 

 

I completely agree... I really hope she is able to let the rational part of her (if there is one) remind her that it's dangerous both for her and a potential baby for her to get pregnant again rather than the jealous part of her take over and try to keep up with her daughters as they continue to get pregnant. 

[wanderwoman]

MChelle in a future homeskool episode: Today kids we are going to learn about ECT and lobotomy. Or their new home play: One flew over the Duggars nest.

Omg. I totally flashed on her tinker toy house construction, homeschool, "per-pen-dis-u-lar" lesson.

Michelle: "Josie...mama's talking sweetie. (Addresses others) Today. In our wisdom book, biology supplement, were going to talk about lobotomies. (Sing song voice) Can you say "lobotomy"?

Kids: (together) lobotomy

MICHELLE: good job

[Absolom]

Apparently Michelle wasn't going to be immediately menopausal as I'm sure they tested her FSH levels last year.  However, she is almost surely perimenopausal by now. One of my bosses was told by her OB that her chances of conception after age 42 were tiny.  Yes, and I was there at the baptism a year and a half later.  She did lose the one conceived when she was 45.  The miscarriage odds should Michelle possibly conceive (remote chance) are extremely high so the chances of a successful pregnancy are almost nonexistent.

[cmr2014]

I don't know if she is as delutional now as she was last year when they filmed the doctor visit, but she certainly thought she knew more than some dumb-ass doctor. "They've been telling me about these risks since I was 35!"

 

I wonder if the calendar is still on the fridge? If there's ANY chance at all, I'm sure they're still trying.

 

I also wonder if they have ever sat down and had a serious conversation about what happens if either of them were to die? I read a posting yesterday about J'chelle's sister dying at 60 -- her mother also died relatively young. The whole concept is simply insanely irresponsible. Trying to conceive a child that they know has a very high risk of being a special needs child, when they know that J'chelle could develop this same condition long before that child is grown,

 

I guess that's why the Lord gave them Jana, huh?

[GEML]

It's been discussed before that Michelle would actually want to give up her life having a child - that there is a martyrdom complex there. I think that's a real thing, not just something we all babble on about.

And it's worth discussing, having children late in life if you come from a family that doesn't tend to live a long time. My husband lost his father at 12. When we discussed having a child in our 40's, he knew better than anyone what the real stakes were. These are not decisions anyone has the right to make other than the couple making them. My husband will tell you he had more in those 12 years than many of his friends have had in a lifetime with their fathers.

It's not in me as a person, especially a pro-choice person who believes her body is her own and her choices are her own and who also believes, as a Christian, that both the babies she had at 26 and the one she had at 42 were gifts from God, to tell anyone, even Michelle Duggar, what to do with own body.

[KittyS]

I don't care if Michelle does or doesn't have any more babies, but I was curious about the odds, so I did a little research. A woman's chance of conceiving unassisted after age 45 is less than 5% over the course of a year (more like 3% or 4%). If she does conceive, she has a 50% - 70% chance of miscarrying. So while it is possible to have a baby at Michelle's age, it is unlikely. I think we all know those outliers who have given birth close to age 50, but that's definitely a long shot, especially without any medical assistance. It wouldn't be a bad idea for Michelle to pass down her mega packs of home pregnancy tests to the next generation!

Edited November 11, 2014 by KittyS

[GEML]

Part of the trouble with raw numbers is that the samples are dramatically skewed. Women who have had excellent fertility, are the most likely to have the longest fertility chances as late and strongest through life. Those who have poor fertility skew those numbers suddenly and dramatically starting at she 35.

It's like drinking habits. I read somewhere (I think it was Slate) that 40% of Americans do not drink at all, and another 20% drink maybe ten-20 drinks a YEAR. Then the next twenty are what most of us would call "social drinkers" someone who drinks a few times a week.

But the top of that pyramid is so high with people drinking 11-15 drinks PER DAY that it evens out to " Americans" drinking on average about twice a week. When the reality isn't like that.

Similarly, we have a fairly decently sized group of women who are fertile well into their 40's. Obviously, Michelle has already fallen into this group. But it's swamped by large numbers of women who are not fertile at all - and may not have been even from much younger ages. In some ways, it's a Golden delicious Apple to Granny Smith Apple comparison. Same type of fruit, but we are still talking about two separate trees.

I don't think Michelle is going to get pregnant. Just that those numbers are probably higher for her as an individual than they are for women in general. Still very small, but higher than average American woman.

Edited November 11, 2014 by GEML

[Absolom]

At her age her chances are still tiny and dropping every day.

 

Regarding commenting on Michelle's choices, I feel completely justified.  While I wouldn't tell her to her face, she's a crazy loon, she and Jim Bob go on TV with their "ministry" to try to draw people into their belief system.  They are also highly paid for putting their lives on display.  As long as they put themselves out there on display and as examples of how to live, their choices are fair game for me to critique in my world view.

[3girlsforus]

With Michelle it's really more than just about her age. Even if she can get pregnant, preeclampsia and gallstone both have a high reoccurrence rate once it's happened during a pregnancy whether the mom is older or not. Of course this is all back to the 'God gave you a brain' thing. God gave her a brain to control the number of children she has but she chooses to ignore any rational thought. God also gave her a brain to realize that after 19 kids she might not need to risk her life and potentially bring into the world a sick, premature baby... but once again she has convinced herself that thinking is ungodly. 

 

To give her just a little credit, I do feel for her in one way. Their entire belief system only values women as baby makers. it doesn't even really value women as baby raisers. So now that she's seeing the end of her baby making... she's come to the end of her value. That is a very difficult thing to deal with. 

[Chai]

With Michelle it's really more than just about her age. Even if she can get pregnant, preeclampsia and gallstone both have a high reoccurrence rate once it's happened during a pregnancy whether the mom is older or not. Of course this is all back to the 'God gave you a brain' thing. God gave her a brain to control the number of children she has but she chooses to ignore any rational thought. God also gave her a brain to realize that after 19 kids she might not need to risk her life and potentially bring into the world a sick, premature baby... but once again she has convinced herself that thinking is ungodly. 

 

To give her just a little credit, I do feel for her in one way. Their entire belief system only values women as baby makers. it doesn't even really value women as baby raisers. So now that she's seeing the end of her baby making... she's come to the end of her value. That is a very difficult thing to deal with. 

That is the most compassionate thing about Michelle I have ever heard about her. You've made a great point, and how sad.

[GEML]

As the Quiverfull movement comes to the end for its first generation of women, there's been a lot of speculation about what is going to happen to the women as they no longer have a purpose.  We know from groups like Fundamentalist Mormons that they are often simply discarded for younger wives, but the stakes in this community are very different.  There's the Orthodox Jewish community that turns to the marriages of their children and grandchildren, but there have been some rumblings that the children in fundamentalism are bleeding off at about the same rate as those in evangelicalism (which means about three out of four are leaving their parents' church) and thus do not have the same kind of ties to their parents as the parents had expected.  So no one knows exactly what the parents of all of these adult children are going to look like, psychologically, after they have given birth and raised all of these children, only to have most of these children go out "into the world".

[Absolom]

Michelle shouldn't have much gallbladder trouble again.  She had it removed.

[Joe Jitsu913]

I wonder if Michelle wakes up every day and says to herself: " Oh no, not pregnant today. Jesus must not love me... ". How incredibly depressing.

[MarysWetBar]

Sorry - If it sounded like I was talking down to you, I apologize. I didn't mean that at all.

I definitely have never heard of it used to refer to getting pregnant. That's odd. It conjures pictures of the stork flying overhead and dropping the baby while the mom runs around and tries to catch it. :-)

And my mind immediately made me picture her old flapping over used ..ummm..."catchers mitt" trying to catch another one for team Duggar..lol

[KittyS]

Every time I read this thread title I mentally scream, "EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!"

[PityFree]

Ugh. It is bugging me more and more that MEchelle and Boob are stupid, bigoted, non-curious, not well read, uncreative people who are making more stupid, bigoted, non-curious, not well read, uncreative people. Some say Boob is smart business-wise, but IMHO he is only LUCKY.

 

My theory is that the kids always do reenactments of everything because they have had creativity beaten out of them and that's the only thing they can think to do - imitate something. Part of the lack of creativity is also that they came from terribly dull people. 

[GEML]

I agree that Jim Bob was very lucky -- he was well timed to take advantage of low interest on real estate loans, loose and easy credit, and the cell phone tower.  But let's face it, he's also not stupid.  Stupid people don't take care of their money well, and he obviously does that.  He almost certainly understands the tax laws pretty well, and small business corporate law.  He uses and has been part of the state and local government, and uses that to his advantage.  That's all very smart and takes a while to learn how to do.  And while he might have been the bumpkin when TLC started, he's become the most watched show on TLC -- he knows there is a game, and he's playing it pretty well.

Fortunately his particular skill sets were just too cheesy and he's just a little too carnival barker to really go into politics.  He wants just a little too much control and it shows too much.  He lacks the ability to be fully polished and pretend.  And for this, I, at least, will always be thankful.

[3girlsforus]

Fortunately his particular skill sets were just too cheesy and he's just a little too carnival barker to really go into politics.  He wants just a little too much control and it shows too much.  He lacks the ability to be fully polished and pretend.  And for this, I, at least, will always be thankful.

 

I would be willing to bet that nearly 99.999999% of people, liberal and conservative alike, are thankful for this.

[GEML]

Given that he lost the primary for Senate in Arkansas pretty badly, I think that's true!

[ghoulina]

My theory is that the kids always do reenactments of everything because they have had creativity beaten out of them and that's the only thing they can think to do - imitate something. Part of the lack of creativity is also that they came from terribly dull people.

 

Oh sad. I never thought about it, but I think you are right. I always wondered - why SO many reenactments??? But it makes a lot of sense. They just don't have the creativity to come up with their own ideas. Plus they're probably also a bit afraid if they stray from known narratives even a bit (Bible, history of the family) they might "sin" in some way. 

[homeperm]

Ugh. It is bugging me more and more that MEchelle and Boob are stupid, bigoted, non-curious, not well read, uncreative people who are making more stupid, bigoted, non-curious, not well read, uncreative people. Some say Boob is smart business-wise, but IMHO he is only LUCKY.

 

My theory is that the kids always do reenactments of everything because they have had creativity beaten out of them and that's the only thing they can think to do - imitate something. Part of the lack of creativity is also that they came from terribly dull people. 

This is what is so heartbreaking. Boob and Mullet are horrible people, IMO, for stealing the kid's childhoods, which is such a short period of life. I see all kinds of flashes of intelligence and creativity in them, but they're sentenced to this lifestyle. Just when their brains should be exploding with ideas and learning, they're forced into restrictive little boxes. It feels like a crime to me. Why have a nest of babies only to clip their wings? The reason I still watch and think about this wreck is that I am waiting and so want to see, even one, break free. Like any cult, I find it interesting to see the fringes of the human mind. I just SO wish that they hadn't dragged their kids into the madness. 

[NausetGirl]

I agree that Jim Bob was very lucky -- he was well timed to take advantage of low interest on real estate loans, loose and easy credit, and the cell phone tower.  But let's face it, he's also not stupid.  Stupid people don't take care of their money well, and he obviously does that.  He almost certainly understands the tax laws pretty well, and small business corporate law.  He uses and has been part of the state and local government, and uses that to his advantage.  That's all very smart and takes a while to learn how to do.  And while he might have been the bumpkin when TLC started, he's become the most watched show on TLC -- he knows there is a game, and he's playing it pretty well.

Fortunately his particular skill sets were just too cheesy and he's just a little too carnival barker to really go into politics.  He wants just a little too much control and it shows too much.  He lacks the ability to be fully polished and pretend.  And for this, I, at least, will always be thankful.

 

Agree with this - except I don't think his financial smarts were his own. I believe he attended a series of $$ seminars at his church. Of course he had to be smart enough to attend that... But I really do have to wonder - even with the seminar knowledge - what their financial situation would be now without TLC. Boob has been monumentally lucky.

[maraleia]

I just couldn't take it anymore and had to post on the Duggar official Facebook. I called them out for being hypocritical over certain things.

Here's my thing...so they will let their kids go to the University of Arkansas for sports related activities but they won't allow any of their kids to get a real education? Also, I had to go off on them for deleting the same-sex kissing photos from their page.

I guess the recent election results have made me especially angry at anti-women, anti-science, anti-education, anti-immigrant, anti-LGBT people especially those with a national platform like the Duggar's.

[Darknight]

Given that he lost the primary for Senate in Arkansas pretty badly, I think that's true!

And he paid all that money for it, all while his family of 16 were living in a three bedroom home with one bathroom

I just couldn't take it anymore and had to post on the Duggar official Facebook. I called them out for being hypocritical over certain things.

Here's my thing...so they will let their kids go to the University of Arkansas for sports related activities but they won't allow any of their kids to get a real education? Also, I had to go off on them for deleting the same-sex kissing photos from their page.

I guess the recent election results have made me especially angry at anti-women, anti-science, anti-education, anti-immigrant, anti-LGBT people especially those with a national platform like the Duggar's.

They're such hypocrites. Yet they soon mind homosexuals buying their crap or watching their show. I thought they were loving christians

[maraleia]

Oh and they all use Apple products freely yet they denounce people like openly gay Apple CEO Tim Cook. Such hypocrites.

[Darknight]

Oh and they all use Apple products freely yet they denounce people like openly gay Apple CEO Tim Cook. Such hypocrites.

I'm waiting for them to get rid of them. But they will come up with some lame excuse of accepted people as they are

[maraleia]

So the ignorant Duggar fans are trying to argue with me over at the Duggar Official Facebook page. I'm going to see how long it takes them to delete my posts and get blocked from their site. Also, they are so stupid (the Duggars) because they didn't block people from posting on their site until they liked the page. They are so uneducated about social media and how it really works. I don't know why this gives me so much pleasure but there it is.

[RandomX]

I'm waiting for one the howlers to come out, if the kid is smart he will leave the house first lest he or she be sent to a fundy camp to be de-gay'd.

So-called 'Conversion Therapy' is the next civil rights battle The UN is currently hearing arguments that it constitutes torture.

California and New Jersey have passed laws banning reparative therapy for minors, while New York, Massachusetts and Illinois are among the states reportedly considering legislation on the matter.

[fliptopbox]

I just couldn't take it anymore and had to post on the Duggar official Facebook. I called them out for being hypocritical over certain things.

Here's my thing...so they will let their kids go to the University of Arkansas for sports related activities but they won't allow any of their kids to get a real education? Also, I had to go off on them for deleting the same-sex kissing photos from their page.

I guess the recent election results have made me especially angry at anti-women, anti-science, anti-education, anti-immigrant, anti-LGBT people especially those with a national platform like the Duggar's.

I tried to find your comment, but all the praising/kissing comments got too overwhelming and I gave up after only managing to scroll back like 15hrs. I have no issues with Christians in general, but it does bother me when the overly rabid type talk about needing to obey God's law and follow their faith blindly. Religion isn't like traffic school. It's as if they have no realization the world is not black and white, and they seem to preach hating things they do not agree with or do not understand, but they spin it as "hating the sin but not the sinner" which is total bullshit. If you only hate "the sin" of being gay, and not the gay people themselves why ban them from your page?

[maraleia]

I tried to find your comment, but all the praising/kissing comments got too overwhelming and I gave up after only managing to scroll back like 15hrs. I have no issues with Christians in general, but it does bother me when the overly rabid type talk about needing to obey God's law and follow their faith blindly. Religion isn't like traffic school. It's as if they have no realization the world is not black and white, and they seem to preach hating things they do not agree with or do not understand, but they spin it as "hating the sin but not the sinner" which is total bullshit. If you only hate "the sin" of being gay, and not the gay people themselves why ban them from your page?

My comments were done using my real name not this screen name. BTW the people who are praising the Duggar's have the worst grammar and sentence structure. It's so laughable and tragic.

[NausetGirl]

My comments were done using my real name not this screen name. BTW the people who are praising the Duggar's have the worst grammar and sentence structure. It's so laughable and tragic.

 

In the very little social media I've scanned regarding the Duggars, I've noticed this too. Their fans, for the most part, aren't Harvard grads. I'm wondering how many are high school grads? Sometimes the language is so awful it's incoherent.

[fliptopbox]

My comments were done using my real name not this screen name. BTW the people who are praising the Duggar's have the worst grammar and sentence structure. It's so laughable and tragic.

I do realize that but everything I read was praising them and kissing their asses. Or makeout pics. I didn't see anything negative at all, so either I didn't scroll back enough or it was deleted.

[lottiedottie]

If you go to the Duggar official FB page and click on the "posts to page" link on the left hand side of the screen, you will see pictures posted by someone named Jimmy Clay. I imagine they are making the Duggars very twitchy. LOL

 

But don't click on Jimmy Clay's Facebook account because there's a picture of one dude giving another a hand job.

Edited November 14, 2014 by lottiedottie

[ginger90]

 The deleting of kissing pics is making the rounds: http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/duggars-issue-kissing-challenge-delete-pics-of-same-sex-couples-20141211

Edited November 14, 2014 by ginger90

[Darknight]

In the very little social media I've scanned regarding the Duggars, I've noticed this too. Their fans, for the most part, aren't Harvard grads. I'm wondering how many are high school grads? Sometimes the language is so awful it's incoherent.

But they're christian

[AnnieGirl]

Why are the Duggars all of the sudden so prevalent on social media? I realize it's only the over 18 crowd doing so, but they avoided doing so for so long. I'm curious if TLC has encouraged or discouraged them on this. It does provide them more press, but not all press is good press and it could backfire on TLC like the Honey Boo debacle.

[WTFFF]

 

they spin it as "hating the sin but not the sinner" which is total bullshit. If you only hate "the sin" of being gay, and not the gay people themselves why ban them from your page?

 

 

 

That phrase means essentially nothing.  They think acting hatefully is negated by saying "but I don't hate them!"

 

Yeah, if you really "loved the sinner, but hated the sin" you would believe as you wanted but not try to force the entire country to follow your beliefs with you, causing suffering to the "sinners" you supposedly "love."

 

It's been a while since I've read my Bible, but I'm pretty sure that's not how Jesus behaved towards "sinners."

[Portia]

It's been a while since I've read my Bible, but I'm pretty sure that's not how Jesus behaved towards "sinners."

In fairness, people can make something of a case for Jesus modeling "love the sinner, hate the sin." The go-to example is often the woman caught in adultery in John 8: Jesus treated her with love and respect, but his parting words to her were "Go and sin no more."

 

That being said . . . in my experience, many people who espouse "love the sinner, hate the sin" actually seem to be communicating "Sure, I love those sinners, but they need to stay the hell out of my church." 

Edited November 15, 2014 by Portia

[merylinkid]

What most high on their horse religious folks forget about that scene with Jesus is the prostitute is what he said before go and sin no more.   He said "He is without sin, cast the first stone."   IN other words, no one is sinless so you don't get to judge others.    Boy do the Duggars like to judge.

[Portia]

Amen to that, merylinkid.