Carole Radziwill: She's a Real Princess!

[motorcitymom65]

I mean, I know it's Aviva, but in the real world I would find Carole's behavior, and her delight over this nonprofessional diagnosis of her really revolting. As it stands, in the context of the show I find it mildly gross.

It doesn't bother me because I know that by this time in filming, the gals know each other really well. They have all seen Aviva behind the scenes, and know about the endless hours of footage we will never see.  They saw her talk about all of her phobias last year (and Carole was extremely supportive and delighted that she overcame some of them to come to St. Barths) and now like magic, those phobias are all gone. 

 

I think at the end of the day, Carole could end up being dangerous for a lot of these ladies. If the rumors are true that there will be a cast shake-up, I would expect to hear Carole do a lot of dishing on what she saw on this show. I don't think she will throw Bravo or production under the bus at all because she is too close to Andy, but I think that her last two blogs have given us a glimpse into her thinking. She seems done with these dumb broads and doesn't mind telling us the ways in which they are dumb. When I read her blog of a couple of weeks ago, my first thought was that Sonja and Aviva would be pissed all to hell. It is not the fact that she is calling them out, it is the way she is doing it. She has pretty much eviscerated them to an extent, calling Sonja a dingbat and recounting some of her drunken antics when they were in St. Barths last year that had never been mentioned before.  She clearly has issues with Ramona as well. I have no problem at all believing that her blogs and the reaction from Sonja, Aviva and Ramona are the reason the comments have been shut down. They have been hammered away at by the other ladies before, but not in this manner and I don't think they know how to handle it. I think she is pissed about the comments being deleted - she is the only one who mentioned it in her blog and she has been talking about it in the press.  I would expect/hope that she will confirm what did or did not happen with that and I don't think it will make them look very good. 

[Almost 3000]

It doesn't bother me because I know that by this time in filming, the gals know each other really well. They have all seen Aviva behind the scenes, and know about the endless hours of footage we will never see.  They saw her talk about all of her phobias last year (and Carole was extremely supportive and delighted that she overcame some of them to come to St. Barths) and now like magic, those phobias are all gone. 

 

I think at the end of the day, Carole could end up being dangerous for a lot of these ladies. If the rumors are true that there will be a cast shake-up, I would expect to hear Carole do a lot of dishing on what she saw on this show. I don't think she will throw Bravo or production under the bus at all because she is too close to Andy, but I think that her last two blogs have given us a glimpse into her thinking. She seems done with these dumb broads and doesn't mind telling us the ways in which they are dumb. When I read her blog of a couple of weeks ago, my first thought was that Sonja and Aviva would be pissed all to hell. It is not the fact that she is calling them out, it is the way she is doing it. She has pretty much eviscerated them to an extent, calling Sonja a dingbat and recounting some of her drunken antics when they were in St. Barths last year that had never been mentioned before.  She clearly has issues with Ramona as well. I have no problem at all believing that her blogs and the reaction from Sonja, Aviva and Ramona are the reason the comments have been shut down. They have been hammered away at by the other ladies before, but not in this manner and I don't think they know how to handle it. I think she is pissed about the comments being deleted - she is the only one who mentioned it in her blog and she has been talking about it in the press.  I would expect/hope that she will confirm what did or did not happen with that and I don't think it will make them look very good. 

This is so Carole's next book. A memoir, guide and quasi real romp of a widow's adventures in reality TV. The memoir part is the hook to actually sell it since straight fiction was a bit of a disaster.

[aradia22]

 

She seems done with these dumb broads and doesn't mind telling us the ways in which they are dumb.

But she's a "girl's girl". *eye roll*

[archer1267]

It must have been difficult as an extended member of the Kennedy clan.

 

 

I think Carole's exposure to the Kennedys was actually pretty limited. Her husband and JFK Jr. were first cousins by marriage. She didn't really spend time with Caroline and I doubt she would have been hanging out with Bobby's and Teddy's kids.

 

As for the Kennedy thing being a reason why she keeps her overbite, maybe she wants to keep it as it's distinctive, or really doesn't see it as the problem that others do, in the same way people have had problems with Melissa McCarthy's weight and Barbra Streisand's nose.

[Mozelle]

Oh I cried at many different junctions in the book, it is intense yet so beautiful. I thought she was brutally honest and I had to take a breather at certain points and just reflect. There were many moments that stayed with me (between her and Anthony, her and Carolyn etc.) but what I got stuck on a few times and after finishing was how she described those moments with each doctor along the way. There was something about the interactions (how they spoke to her, helped or didn't help) from beginning to end that resonated with me. It might be that there was always a pivotal moment or dramatic swing in emotions or realization that occurred when interacting with them, she describes that emotional turbulence (or acceptance of what was to come) so well.

 

Oh and since we were talking about JFK Jr. a second ago I felt John didn't figure much in the book at all (imo) which was interesting to me since I'm sure a lot of people might have picked it up to read about him. He was in it of course but wasn't a pivotal figure, just a means to an end to introducing Carolyn into her life (though you could see that he played a big part in Anthony's life). It was so fascinating when Carolyn popped into existence so briefly when they first met then disappeared for a few years, I was anticipating her return lol. When Carolyn became a permanent fixture in John's life is when he became a permanent fixture in the book. The main characters were Carole, Anthony and then Carolyn...obviously the people that meant the most to her.

 

 

 

That's the beauty of ebooks (and a negative), no ones knows what you are reading. I resisted for a long time because I love the feel of holding a book (still do) but ebooks are far too convenient (I read on my phone a lot or my iPad) and I don't have to care what others think of my reading choices lol. It's becoming less and less frequent that I see someone with a real live book on the train that I can try and catch a peek at the title. Most libraries deal in ebooks and audio books now, I just looked at the website of the DC library near me and they have the ebook version of 'What Remains' but there is a waiting list of 7 people...'Widows Guide' isn't listed as available (they do have the physical book however), maybe in a few more months. 

 

I still haven't made the jump to ebooks yet. I know, I know. 

 

As for What Remains, it's showing that it's at three libraries but checked out at one, in transit to another, and on hold at Takoma Park. :/ Widow's Guide is also on hold there (though that isn't my specific branch) and checked out at other branches. It's just as well, I guess. I've been slogging through The Sun Also Rises (which I'm reading because I feel like it's a book I'm supposed to have read. I apparently bought it back in January 2002 based on the date I wrote on the inside cover. Yeah, it's time to get it over with) so I need to finish that before I move onto a new book.

[Trooper York]

"Catatonic husbands in modern yellow-papered living rooms."

 

 Carole sure is a  peach. What did he ever do to her?

[Midnight Cheese]

The only time Reid Drescher came to life this season was to back up Aviva's ghostwriter claims.  I'm not surprised Carole slams him.

 

I know it's bitchy but I love that Carole has her sights on Ramona, Aviva and Sonja in her blogs, particularly the last two wretches.  Carole may be a bitch, but let me do my Fred Armisen as Joy Behar here: so what? Who cares?  Aviva decided to call Carole's integrity in question in front of the cameras.  Sonja decided to prove in her own deluded mind that she is a better catch than Carole and so desireable that Russ fucked her, open relationship or not.  Fuck 'em.  It's sad for them that they antagonized someone who can put together a few sentences that make sense - or hired the right person to do that for her. 

[politichick]

Carole's husband and JFKjr were first cousins because their mothers are sisters, not by marriage.

[RedheadZombie]

I think Carole's exposure to the Kennedys was actually pretty limited. Her husband and JFK Jr. were first cousins by marriage. She didn't really spend time with Caroline and I doubt she would have been hanging out with Bobby's and Teddy's kids.

 

As for the Kennedy thing being a reason why she keeps her overbite, maybe she wants to keep it as it's distinctive, or really doesn't see it as the problem that others do, in the same way people have had problems with Melissa McCarthy's weight and Barbra Streisand's nose.

 

 

JFK Jr. and Anthony's mothers were sisters.  They weren't linked by marriage, but by blood. 

 

I don't razz Carole about not fixing her mouth, because I love when women (Barbra Streisand) are confident in their natural looks.  The thing is, Carole is not natural.  Her face is filled with all kind of things - fillers and botox, and her lips have been re-sculpted.  That just contradicts the whole Carole is comfortable with her looks.  As does her hair extensions.  I absolutely love that Heather's family tells her she can't have a nose job.  I'm sure that kind of acceptance and love feeds self-worth.  In return, I love that Heather respects their wishes - after all, it is her face.

 

The reason I have problems with what Carole writes and says, is that she never has the courage to speak these things to people's faces.  She's sweet at the time, then records rather nasty talking heads (where someone else is always the butt of her jokes), and writes vicious blogs.  That was the root of why Luanne was so upset at the last reunion.  As far as Lu knew, they got along fine.  I would also be more comfortable with Carole's cruel humor if she was a little self-deprecating.  She will tell a joke about herself, but she's never the bad guy - example:  the guy who cancelled on her before the first date.  He was the bad guy in the story.  I find Aviva rather unlikeable myself, but accusing her of Munchausen's is a low blow (being accused of Munchausen's by Proxy can make you lose your kids pretty quick), as is dragging Reid into this mess.  I don't care for Reid, but he manages to support his very insecure wife, and tolerates her perverted father.  He practically deserves a medal. 

 

Lastly, I don't understand why the Kennedy family always gets the blame for the vampire teeth.  Ethel had a mouthful of horse teeth of her own, and it's her children that seem to suffer the most from this malady.

[politichick]

Thanks for the link to Carole's blog. I've been watching the housewives (all of them, sadly) from the start but never read any of the blogs. Read a few of Carole's today and enjoyed them. She makes a lot more effort to be clever and journalist-like as opposed to the emotional vomiting, for example, of Kristen.

[FozzyBear]

JFK Jr. and Anthony's mothers were sisters. They weren't linked by marriage, but by blood.

I don't razz Carole about not fixing her mouth, because I love when women (Barbra Streisand) are confident in their natural looks. The thing is, Carole is not natural. Her face is filled with all kind of things - fillers and botox, and her lips have been re-sculpted. That just contradicts the whole Carole is comfortable with her looks. As does her hair extensions. I absolutely love that Heather's family tells her she can't have a nose job. I'm sure that kind of acceptance and love feeds self-worth. In return, I love that Heather respects their wishes - after all, it is her face.

The reason I have problems with what Carole writes and says, is that she never has the courage to speak these things to people's faces. She's sweet at the time, then records rather nasty talking heads (where someone else is always the butt of her jokes), and writes vicious blogs. That was the root of why Luanne was so upset at the last reunion. As far as Lu knew, they got along fine. I would also be more comfortable with Carole's cruel humor if she was a little self-deprecating. She will tell a joke about herself, but she's never the bad guy - example: the guy who cancelled on her before the first date. He was the bad guy in the story. I find Aviva rather unlikeable myself, but accusing her of Munchausen's is a low blow (being accused of Munchausen's by Proxy can make you lose your kids pretty quick), as is dragging Reid into this mess. I don't care for Reid, but he manages to support his very insecure wife, and tolerates her perverted father. He practically deserves a medal.

Lastly, I don't understand why the Kennedy family always gets the blame for the vampire teeth. Ethel had a mouthful of horse teeth of her own, and it's her children that seem to suffer the most from this malady.

I noticed this about Carol last season too. She was extremely negative in her talking heads. I felt like she had two subjects: 1. Why she was so much cooler than everyone else. 2. Why the other women sucked. I get that the THs are gossipy by nature but I remember toward the end of S1 I realized she had not said one nice thing about anyone the entire season. Chick just gives me a bad vibe. I think she's really quick to turn on people for really minor slights and annoyances.

[ryebread]

I think Carole's exposure to the Kennedys was actually pretty limited.

She didn't make it sound like that in her book.  Correct me if I'm wrong (I read the book during Season 1), but didn't Carole say she went to Jackie's apartment to sit vigil while Jackie was dying?  That, to me, seems like she'd have to be on fairly intimate terms with the family.

 

Also, since Anthony was John's best friend, I would think that anything John graduated from or launched, birthday/engagement/whatever parties that were either thrown BY or given IN John's honor, Carole and Anthony would be invited to.  As would many of the other Kennedys that John was close to.  I think she had exposure but imagine she was like a fish out of water. 

[jvr]

Sorry for the long post..I started typing and couldn't stop. Feel free to ignore especially if you haven't read the book!

 

Actually I think she always described her interaction with the Kennedy clan as a fish out of water. She didn't get on with Caroline (they interacted in the Hamptons and the Vineyard) at dinners and family functions but it was never a close relationship. I think she described her as being standoffish (hard to get close to), thats the impression I got. Even in that scene of Anthony bringing her to Jackie O's apartment for her vigil she describes feeling like she shouldn't be there.

 

Here is the other great thing about ebooks (search, copy, paste):

 

She checked out of the hospital three days earlier; there was nothing left to be done. I don’t want to see her. I’m his fiancée now and this is his family, but I don’t want to go. When I arrive, the streets are crowded with strangers, and the apartment is filled with family; most I have never met. There are awkward introductions. Stilted conversations, swinging between strained small talk and stifled tears. [...] Anthony speaks in an unsteady voice. I want to run from here, out of the apartment, out into the street, as far away as I can. Radziwill, Carole (2005-10-07). What Remains: A Memoir of Fate, Friendship, and Love (Kindle Locations 1716-1720). Scribner. Kindle Edition.

 

Not a description of someone who felt they belonged. That's not being on intimate terms, thats someone having to go somewhere to support their loved one. She had met Jackie a few times but I think she was fairly intimidated by her while Anthony of course just saw her as his Auntie. 

 

She really only interacted with John on a personal level because of his close relationship with Anthony, though I'm sure she met a lot of the Kennedy folks. From what I can see she didn't have any real connection to the Kennedy clan so it confuses me when people bring them up, usually in a derisive manner.

 

I thought she was passionless in her marriage based on, "What Remains".

 

No two people, relationships or marriages are the same. I actually can see where someone might get this impression of their relationship if that's what they wanted to see but I think it's the wrong word (?). I think they were serious adults (not some love sick teenage Twilight bs) even in the early courtship of their relationship. She described these two very ambitious independent people who spent lots of time apart traveling the world trying to find the next great story and then they would come together whenever they had some free time and were in the same city. They did this for years if I recall?! I remembered being very surprised by this. This slow burn of dating but not dating until it finally turned serious... and the minute it turned serious cancer became a third person in their relationship. 

 

What I saw was two very independent strong willed people that had to rely on each other far more than they wanted to. Anthony couldn't stand to be so reliant on Carole for everything, how upset he would get and withdrawn. How he worked almost up until his death even after all those horrific procedures done to him. How he was very much in denial about his condition. And Carole, running from NYC to DC constantly for his NIH care, feeling like his family was looking to her to do what was best, trying to keep everything that was happening to him a secret because he was embarrassed. Going at it alone until Carolyn. I never got the impression that Carole did not love Anthony but I do feel like she was very overwhelmed at times and had no way out. She had that single minded focus of trying to save him that I think everything else in their relationship suffered. That emotional breakdown at the end was very much overdue.

 

Carole only really gave us minor glimpses of their relationship when they were carefree and happy, small and infrequent moments when cancer and treatments weren't at the forefront of their minds.

[Mozelle]

The reason I have problems with what Carole writes and says, is that she never has the courage to speak these things to people's faces.  She's sweet at the time, then records rather nasty talking heads (where someone else is always the butt of her jokes), and writes vicious blogs.  That was the root of why Luanne was so upset at the last reunion.  As far as Lu knew, they got along fine. 

 

And LuAnn is on the hook for that, too. She said at a dinner to a table full of people that Sonja probably didn't show because Sonja was afraid her house would be repossessed from out under her. She makes her statements about Sonja in her THs as well. Before the whole blowout over the facialist, LuAnn was talking about how Sonja is supposed to be her friend...yet she made a crack about her friend's bankruptcy woes. 

 

My point is that Carole isn't alone in it. The difference, though, is that Carole and LuAnn weren't friends last season, and for as teasing as Carole was to LuAnn's face, I didn't ever buy at the reunion that LuAnn thought they were friends. Before the facialist dust up, though, LuAnn and Sonja were friends. 

[Midnight Cheese]

Didn't LuAnn only make the one comment?  Sonja has been at her again and again and again, and she'd already been a major cooze at the Hamptons, claiming LuAnn married royalty because she wasn't as honest about her feelings as Sonja.  That was also in a group setting.  So was 'LuMan,' so was 'I only compliment the good in your performances, not the duds!' when LuAnn said merely that Sonja's caburlesque horseshit 'needed polish.'  Sonja has been after her again and again, and the flashback to that mortifying Christmas party scene shows she did it last year, too: LuAnn hosted that party, and Sonja got smashed and screamed at Jacques that she 'didn't believe' in either his commitment to Lu or their relationship, and then cried that she just 'didn't want LuAnn to get hurt.'  Everyone at that table knew she was projecting her own mess onto Lu/Jacques.  And even all of THAT is apart from the pathological sexual competitiveness that Sonja showed in banging the pirate to prove that she was at LuAnn's level in terms of booty calls.  

 

The comment about the townhouse was a long time in coming IMO.  LuAnn is no saint but I think only a saint would stop herself from pointing out a little reality or making a joke - even a not-nice-one - at Sonja's expense since Sonja has no conscience whatsoever limiting how much shit she shovels onto other people.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Midnight Cheese

[Mozelle]

Well, if that's the case, then I can't understand why LuAnn is pissed off about this facialist business. She's going around saying that Sonja is her friend inspite of some of Sonja's sideways comments about Jacques needing to get out if he isn't serious about LuAnn, etc. LuAnn's sideways comment was about a woman she's saying is her friend. That's the distinction I'm drawing between Carole-LuAnn, season 5 versus LuAnn-Sonja, season 6. Carole wasn't calling LuAnn her friend when she snarked on LuAnn in her THs or teased LuAnn to her face during the season.

[Midnight Cheese]

I'm not disagreeing with you, Mozelle.  I don't think it's a big deal that LuAnn said one thing that when it's been thing after thing, or that it made her a hypocritical friend.  LuAnn clearly still valued the friendship with Sonja, planned that picnic twosome for them -- but then Sonja pushed it too far with the facialist business.  I think Sonja's jealousy produced static, and LuAnn let it go until she couldn't.  The joke was really very minor, and friends sometimes say snarky stuff about friends and ultimately regret it.  Who knows. 

[tvallthetime]

I like Carol. Out of all the Housewives, across all series, she is one of the few that inspires me. In the sense that, as a single, childfree woman in her mid-30s, she gives me hope that even if I don't find a wonderful partner, I can live a fabulous single life into my 50s. A life I'd actually want to live. Not the life that the media and society would have you believe is in store - one of a house full of cats (not that there is anything wrong with cats), no men, no love, no happiness, no smiles, looking like a hag and giving up on life. Carol shows that you don't have to be a hot mess like a Sonja, dependent on a man for your esteem. She appears to have a full life, with rich past experiences, she dates (albeit sometimes awkwardly), has friends, a career to be proud of, owns a great apartment in my favorite city in the world, smokes a little weed and smiles a lot. Seems pretty good to me!

 

Until I hear that Carol strangled some puppies or hates black people (I am black), I remain a fan. She is flawed, so is everyone else in life, and I enjoy watching on her on TV.

[CousinAmy]

 

I just looked at the website of the DC library near me and they have the ebook version of 'What Remains' but there is a waiting list of 7 people.

 

Sorry, but I've never read ebooks so I don't understand how there could be a waiting list if they're delivered electronically. Can't more than 7 people download them at once? I would think there would be no limit. 

[Almost 3000]

Sorry, but I've never read ebooks so I don't understand how there could be a waiting list if they're delivered electronically. Can't more than 7 people download them at once? I would think there would be no limit. 

No, because the library only purchased one e-copy so its just like one hardcopy book having only one in circulation. If there was no limit how would the publisher make any money? I had to wrap my head around that one too.

[jvr]

Yup that is right, the library only has a license to distribute a certain number of copies of an ebook to the public otherwise no one would ever buy a book again. I think most publishers deal in licenses rather than selling a copy of the media to the library which is different than a physical book which the library owns. This particular library has 3 ebooks copies of 'What Remains' that it can provide, single user at a time. Once those three are 'checked out' anyone else has to wait till one has been 'returned' (times expires on the checkout or the person returns it early). The ebook file you have has DRM software in it so once your time expires you can't view it anymore. The number of ebook copies is dependent on cost of purchasing the license for the digital media I believe so it varies by book (the publisher, how old it is etc.).

[Mozelle]

I like Carol. Out of all the Housewives, across all series, she is one of the few that inspires me. In the sense that, as a single, childfree woman in her mid-30s, she gives me hope that even if I don't find a wonderful partner, I can live a fabulous single life into my 50s. A life I'd actually want to live. Not the life that the media and society would have you believe is in store - one of a house full of cats (not that there is anything wrong with cats), no men, no love, no happiness, no smiles, looking like a hag and giving up on life. Carol shows that you don't have to be a hot mess like a Sonja, dependent on a man for your esteem. She appears to have a full life, with rich past experiences, she dates (albeit sometimes awkwardly), has friends, a career to be proud of, owns a great apartment in my favorite city in the world, smokes a little weed and smiles a lot. Seems pretty good to me!

 

Until I hear that Carol strangled some puppies or hates black people (I am black), I remain a fan. She is flawed, so is everyone else in life, and I enjoy watching on her on TV.

 

tvallthetime, you totally encapsulated everything about why I like Carole (and will continue to like her), down to the statement about black people, too! Heh.

[Sun-Bun]

tvallthetime, you totally encapsulated everything about why I like Carole (and will continue to like her), down to the statement about black people, too! Heh.

Same here, ladies!!

I love her and am so inspired by her as well, even as a married late-30's Southern gal. She makes the 50's seem so fun.

It actually annoyed me when Ramona said during "Bookgate" something to the effect of, "Her career is all she has."

All she has?!

I'm looking at a successful, best-selling author and journalist with an amazing career/late husband, great home and a fabulous bicoastal life as a stylish Manhattan/LA single gal about town who travels the world and has a rich social life to boot, so that summary was totally lost on me.

No, she's far from perfect, but that's what I like about her: she's just real, hair extensions and plastic surgery and all.

[jnymph]

Hard to believe she takes Xanax.  She seems so chill to me.

[Pollock]

I'm looking at a successful, best-selling author and journalist with an amazing career/late husband, great home and a fabulous bicoastal life as a stylish Manhattan/LA single gal about town who travels the world and has a rich social life to boot

 

That's what I would love to see. From her, from Heather, from LuAnn. Their real careers, real friends, real diners. That fabulous life. Not those stupid trips organized around stupid women rehashing stupid grudges. I want to see them having fun in dresses I could never afford to buy, in places I could never afford to eat with friends as intelligent as mine. Those three seem to have that outside the show. Give it to me Bravo !

[Sun-Bun]

I hear ya on that front!

Maybe some parts of their lives just aren't film-worthy due to some of their friends being camera-shy or certain events/public spaces not allowing filming?

We did get a glimpse of Carol hanging out in her rental cottage in LA with her close girlfriends(and her dog!!) there, and that was cool to see.

I'd love to similarly see Heather doing more work-related functions/professional gatherings for Yummy-Tummy, LuAnn hanging out with her so-called "European Friends" and Ramona actually being filmed at all those fahhhh-bulous Hamptons shindigs she frequents on the DL.

[zoeysmom]

Carole posted this picture of herself-http://instagram.com/p/p_t3HTDQdZ/

 

I don't know who the guy is-is he famous?

 

Carole seems to be pretty free with her criticism of the Kennedys-I am sure after she agreed to very tacky realty show her association with them is by happenstance not out of any desire to see her.  Here is an example: http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20598752,00.html

 

I can see why Aviva threw the barb out there.  I am kind of tired of her name dropping. 

 

I can also see why Caroline Kennedy was a little standoffish with her cousin showing up with his girlfriend to her mother's death bed.  For someone who was intensely private it seems not only like an invasion at the time but to think she wrote a book and found it appropriate to mention it.  Jacqueline died before Carole and Anthony married.

Edited July 5, 2014 by zoeysmom

[zoeysmom]

Except who are the Kennedys? Nowadays on the East Coast that name is associated with criminals, drug addiction, adulterers, scammers, liars, and cheaters. You know, a typical American family. Nothing special about them anymore. Camelot disappeared with John Jr.'s tragedy. They will never get that mythology back no matter how much they keep trying. So they have smartly been lying low for the most part.

No one in their actual circles holds them to this royal greatness that the general American public does because of the media. A media that has been paid off since the days of Joe Sr. to build up the Kennedy name into fairy tales.

So I don't think Carole gives a rat's ass if any of "the Kennedys" do not care for her. In real life, not the media's version of real life, most people in those circles do not care for that family. Quite frankly a lot of them are entitled assholes. That's how delusional and dumb Aviva is, she really thinks that Carole would care what "the Kennedys" think of her, or truly believes that their name really means something that important in Carole's world anymore.

Carole was asking about her friend Mary and she answered honestly. I would want my friend to defend my name in a similar situation despite what "the Kennedys" would think.

Bruce Bozzi is the man in the picture with Carole. He is a FOA (friend of Andy) and one of the owners of the The Palm steakhouse franchise.

Why make a comment?  The women's children had been removed from her home, she had been arrested for DUI-things I would certainly call "demons".  Carole needs to learn her opinion isn't all that important-to comment on the situation was crass.

There are still Kennedys out there doing good things one who comes to mind is Caroline. Obviously, Carole does see fit to mention them because she made a point of saying she saw some of the Kennedy family at a wedding.   I think this happened before she was "Carole Radziwill, RHONYC".    

[jvr]

I can also see why Caroline Kennedy was a little standoffish with her cousin showing up with his girlfriend to her mother's death bed.  For someone who was intensely private it seems not only like an invasion at the time but to think she wrote a book and found it appropriate to mention it.  Jacqueline died before Carole and Anthony married.

 

 

What? Where did you get this idea Caroline was being standoffish with Anthony concerning bringing his fiancee to Jackie O's death bed. Was that stated somewhere? I'm happy it's probably false (unless there is some info available) since it makes Caroline seem like a bitch since she knew Carole before the marriage and had dinner(s) at her mothers apartment with her husband and kids and Carole and Anthony well before her mothers passing. Carole knew Jackie, it's not like they had never met. I think Caroline would not have a problem with Anthony, someone she loved, bringing someone whom he loves with him in a moment where he needs that support. Why does it matter that they weren't married yet anyway? They were married a few months later.

 

No issues from me on the small (tiny) mention in the book concerning her passing, I didn't find it invasive and I don't know how Caroline felt. I already knew the circumstances of her death, I think it was mentioned by family how she passed (surrounded by family, friends and her books..for some reason I think John said this). She didn't describe anything I didn't already know and it focused on how she felt and on Anthony...no one else there was mentioned by name. I liked the glimpse into how close Anthony and Jackie were, the extra time spent together once she got her diagnosis. I think it needed to be mentioned, even if briefly, it was a turning point in his/their acknowledgment of his illness.

 

But back to Caroline, she is a private person who it seems doesn't allow people easily into her life (which is why I wrote standoffish which is my description of her). There is nothing essentially wrong with that it just makes it hard for others to be completely comfortable with her and get to know her. I don't think anyone outside of her family really knows who she is and that's fine.

Edited July 6, 2014 by jvr

[zoeysmom]

What? Where did you get this idea Caroline was being standoffish with Anthony concerning bringing his fiancee to Jackie O's death bed. Was that stated somewhere? I'm happy it's probably false (unless there is some info available) since it makes Caroline seem like a bitch since she knew Carole before the marriage and had dinner(s) at her mothers apartment with her husband and kids and Carole and Anthony well before her mothers passing. Carole knew Jackie, it's not like they had never met. I think Caroline would not have a problem with Anthony, someone she loved, bringing someone whom he loves with him in a moment where he needs that support. Why does it matter that they weren't married yet anyway? They were married a few months later.

 

No issues from me on the small (tiny) mention in the book concerning her passing, I didn't find it invasive and I don't know how Caroline felt. I already knew the circumstances of her death, I think it was mentioned by family how she passed (surrounded by family, friends and her books..for some reason I think John said this). She didn't describe anything I didn't already know and it focused on how she felt and on Anthony...no one else there was mentioned by name. I liked the glimpse into how close Anthony and Jackie were, the extra time spent together once she got her diagnosis. I think it needed to be mentioned, even if briefly, it was a turning point in his/their acknowledgment of his illness.

 

But back to Caroline, she is a private person who it seems doesn't allow people easily into her life (which is why I wrote standoffish which is my description of her). There is nothing essentially wrong with that it just makes it hard for others to be completely comfortable with her and get to know her. I don't think anyone outside of her family really knows who she is and that's fine.

I got the idea-or rather quoted Caroline was standoffish from you.  It may be just me-but when I go to visit a dying relative it is about them-not about me needing support.  The problem with this whole conversation is we only have Carole's word for what happened.  Much like her year long romance with George Clooney-no one else seems to confirm it so we have to take Carole at her word.  Because it is not as if anyone ever takes pictures of George Clooney and his love interests.  That I why I believe Carole inserts herself into situation as a fringe player and makes statements that the principals really don't appreciate and does it with people who are private or won't take time to dignify a response to her chatter.

[jvr]

Why are you linking Caroline's behavior to her mothers death though? I'm pretty sure Caroline treated Carole (and Carolyn latter) the same before and after this moment in time (pleasant and respectful but not lovey dovey). I don't know where you are getting this impression, it seems like a leap. No one has said what she portrayed in her book was false in the 9 years since it was written (penned 5 years after the tragedies and 11 years after Jackie's passing) so why would we automatically think it wasn't accurate (from her POV)? That doesn't seem right.

 

On the dying/dead relatives thing it may just be you. Not that I think this matters (in regards to the Carols) but when people go to visit a dying relative do people not bring their significant others with them? Is that not done? I mean...especially if the SO knew the relative. He visited his Aunt when she was well and brought Carole with him, he visited when she was sick and brought Carole with him, he visited when she was dying and... 

 

I don't fucking care about George Clooney and some stupid rumors. Get back to me when she writes a memoir about her year long relationship with him lol.

Edited July 6, 2014 by jvr

[poppygibson]

That I why I believe Carole inserts herself into situation as a fringe player and makes statements that the principals really don't appreciate and does it with people who are private or won't take time to dignify a response to her chatter.

I can buy this. I don't think George Clooney gives a crap enough about this RHONY reality TV chick to refute her claims. Nor do I think the Kennedys or the Bessettes care enough about her to refute her claims about being Carolyn's bff. We only have Carole's word for it and I don't believe her.

[Mozelle]

I got the idea-or rather quoted Caroline was standoffish from you.  It may be just me-but when I go to visit a dying relative it is about them-not about me needing support.  The problem with this whole conversation is we only have Carole's word for what happened.  Much like her year long romance with George Clooney-no one else seems to confirm it so we have to take Carole at her word.  Because it is not as if anyone ever takes pictures of George Clooney and his love interests.  That I why I believe Carole inserts herself into situation as a fringe player and makes statements that the principals really don't appreciate and does it with people who are private or won't take time to dignify a response to her chatter.

 

Carole keeps being put on the hook for Sonja--ya know, she would giggled when her facialist said that LuAnn likes short, French men?; she who said nothing at the time when the same facialist said that Sonja fucked Russ in LA?--saying "No wonder Clooney did her for a year." There's this expectation that it must be one hundred precent true just because Sonja said it.

 

I can buy that Carole and George had some dinners together. That they probably had something sexual during that time even. The idea that Clooney's dating habits have always been in the media is not exactly correct, though, so the idea that there would be scores of pictures from some dates seem erroneous. As an example, after he and Stacy Keibler ended and before the time it was in the news that he was with the woman he's engaged to, does anyone know if he was meeting for dinner/sleeping with any other woman/women? Or are we to believe that between Stacy and Amal, George was chaste?

[motorcitymom65]

I'm not disagreeing with you, Mozelle.  I don't think it's a big deal that LuAnn said one thing that when it's been thing after thing, or that it made her a hypocritical friend.  LuAnn clearly still valued the friendship with Sonja, planned that picnic twosome for them -- but then Sonja pushed it too far with the facialist business.  I think Sonja's jealousy produced static, and LuAnn let it go until she couldn't.  The joke was really very minor, and friends sometimes say snarky stuff about friends and ultimately regret it.  Who knows. 

I don't compare the gossip that Sonja allowed from the facialist that she was paying, to the comments that Lu made about Sonja being afraid someone might take her house. Sonja has said - on camera - that she is afraid of losing her house. The bankruptcy deal has been part of her story. The fact that she has no money is part of her story. She has no hot water, no money to buy festive clothes for parades. It has all been introduced into the story, and it has all been introduced by her. Was what Lu said maybe a little bit hurtful, even though it was said to a group of people who knew all about her situation and was certainly not gossip?  I would think it might be to Sonja. Do I think that Lu would apologize if Sonja told her that she was hurt? I do think that Lu would apologize. This is what is so huge about the deal with Sonja. She refused to understand and empathize with Lu. I think that Lu has been a better friend to Sonja than that and she deserves better. 

[Duke2801]

I always got the impression that Carole dated Clooney decades ago---likely before her marriage and before he became a mega-superstar who was always in the press. And, knowing what we know of Carole, it was probably very, very low-key and not-serious. Therefore, it's not weird to me that there is no photographic proof of their relationship.

 

When she spoke of it with Kristen, Brandi and Yolanda during that "crossover" scene, she said:

"We dated literally during the Eisenhower administration."

 

So, clearly, they did not "literally" date during the Eisenhower administration, but that would indicate to me it was a long, long time ago. 

 

[motorcitymom65]

I got the idea-or rather quoted Caroline was standoffish from you.  It may be just me-but when I go to visit a dying relative it is about them-not about me needing support.  The problem with this whole conversation is we only have Carole's word for what happened.  Much like her year long romance with George Clooney-no one else seems to confirm it so we have to take Carole at her word.  Because it is not as if anyone ever takes pictures of George Clooney and his love interests.  That I why I believe Carole inserts herself into situation as a fringe player and makes statements that the principals really don't appreciate and does it with people who are private or won't take time to dignify a response to her chatter.

Has Carole ever claimed to have dated George for a year? I know that Sonja said that when they were in St. Barth's, but I have only ever said Carole say they dated, but that it was a long time ago. She goes into no detail at all. I agree with someone else and have always assumed they dated years ago, back before he was ever famous. She worked for ABC and George's dad was in the news business for a million years.  They could have met through news industry stuff back before either one had any fame at all.  

 

Have there ever been any allegations that Carole was lying about any of the stuff she has claimed in her book or afterwards? I had never heard of her book before she came on the show, but read it after and I don't remember ever hearing that anyone was calling any of her accounts into question. I can understand the Kennedy's not wanting to insert themselves into the drama by denying things, but what about John and Carolyn's friends? From the way I understood it, Carolyn was a very social girl. If she and Carole were not really that close, wouldn't one of her "real" friends have come out to denounce what Carole was saying, especially when the book was getting such critical acclaim and Carole was all over the place doing media about it? I mean, if I was Carolyn's real best friend, and this chick was writing a book and claiming to be something she was not, I would be telling the world about it. 

[Souvlaki]

Hard to believe she takes Xanax. She seems so chill to me.

Is she? Anyway, this made me giggle. I recognize benzo-lilt when I hear it, and got the joke, but I'm also reminded of why people say the same of me when they find out I have anxiety issues, I guess I want to make the point that appearances can be deceiving. On or off of the meds, one can appear pretty laid back, and may be usually, and appear so to others in a social setting. I think a lot of times the (reasonable) assumption is made that the anxious person is like a human gerbil, and while there are those types (and times; poor Carol on her date) one can often also appear aloof or snobbish, even spacey, just always retreating to the cerebral, or wait until everyone leaves and the mind isn't distracted to gnaw a nail, so to speak.

Auto correct*

Edited July 8, 2014 by Souvlaki

[aradia22]

 

Until I hear that Carol strangled some puppies or hates black people (I am black), I remain a fan. She is flawed, so is everyone else in life, and I enjoy watching on her on TV.

Would you settle for her losing her boyfriend's dog in the rain? (SATC reference)

[kassa]

I definitely sensed tension in the Caroline/Carole relationship.  Not about Carole going to the apartment while Jackie was dying, but overall, because of the inclusion of the story where Carole mentions how serious John and Carolyn are, and they'll be engaged soon, and Caroline dismisses it out of hand, saying she barely knows Carolyn and therefore it can't be anything really serious.  

 

Meanwhile, of course, Carole knows just how close John and Carolyn are and that Caroline is completely oblivious to how John has kept this most important of relationships from his sister, so much so that she's making embarrassing denials in front of people who have inside information she doesn't have.

 

It's a great story to have in the book, but it completely debunks the myth that John and Caroline were as close as close can be, a myth apparently Caroline herself believed.  Choosing to include it was a conscious choice to point out that she was more in John's inner circle of confidence than Caroline was.  It's the sort of story that you might want to share but would regretfully edit out out of consideration for someone's feelings.  Obviously that didn't happen.  

[shoegal]

It's the sort of story that you might want to share but would regretfully edit out out of consideration for someone's feelings.  Obviously that didn't happen.

 

 

 

I have read some things about the reaction of Caroline's husband Ed regarding the funeral arrangements of Carolyn and Lauren that were not so flattering, so I suspect Carole didn't edit it out because doesn't think too highly of them.   It seems that Caroline and Ed did not want Carolyn eulogized or buried as a real Kennedy and were rude and dismissive of the Bessette family.  Carole is probably a little 'fuck em!'

[jvr]

I finally read 'Widow's Guide...' and it was ok, I won't be running around telling people to read it though. It's definitely light (even though it's about death) humorous chick lit. I read that genre from time to time but it's not something I gravitate towards. It's a very quirky book with weird characters but it was entertaining and did make me smile and laugh a little. I could almost hear Carole when reading it, it was very her. She drops a 'Midnight In The Garden of Good and Evil' mention and a blowjob reference.

 

The minute I actually started to get into the book where I was reading on the train, mad when my commute was over, walk in the door in the afternoon and immediately start backup... the book was almost over. I became interested in Claire (or maybe just interested in the ending) and started wondering what was going to happen to her and I was 80% done at that point. I guessed the ending correctly at the beginning, very obvious to anyone who reads anything. The ending felt a little rushed in the retelling by Claire.

 

I give it 3 stars, summer beach book.

[NannyPants]

I, too read The Widow's Guide... and was put off by how formulaic it was. Let's see, the heroine is young, beautiful, educated, wealthy and widowed almost immediately by her n'er do well husband. She then spends the remainder if the book sleeping with young, handsome movie star types. The poor dear. Not sure what anyone is supposed to learn from this. Or even remember 2 weeks later.

[jvr]

I actually thought she didn't sleep with enough guys lol. I was like, hurry dammit and get laid! She just agonized over dating again and then finally went on a bunch of first dates and found reasons not to date them again. She only had that one night stand blackout sex (not sexy) and then 'dated' the movie star (already forgot his name lol). Since her husband was a major douchebag I wish Claire had jumped head first into being a widow and finding someone better for her or just enjoyed being single. 

Edited July 29, 2014 by jvr

[Sun-Bun]

I read "Widow's Guide" too and found it just "meh"---and I say that as a huge Carole fan who adored every beautiful page of "What Remains".

I *will* say that for "chick lit" that it's got an interesting tone and has very intelligent, black humor and an excellent overall style---no doubt that much like her blogs, Carole has proven her writing talents and smart wit yet again, it just wasn't a very compelling or interesting story itself.

Which in itself is rather disappointing because this is a topic most of the books in that genre haven't explored, and it felt like she could've made the story/heroine a bit more engaging, but it was overall a bit of a formulaic bore.

But I do applaud her for at least trying to go for this light novel format---she's mentioned since then that it's much harder to write fiction than she ever realized, and I believe it. And it did feel a bit rushed by the end, so I'm willing to bet that she was as bored and over this story as we the readers are by the end. Also, I think this book is far more autobiographical than she's willing to coyly admit!

I do wonder if the show comes back another season if she'll come back too. I'm sure she's gotten far more writing exposure/opportunities otherwise and she freely admits she's a girl with bills who has to hustle, so I'm betting she'd return if invited, if only because Andy obviously loves her still too.

[FozzyBear]

Bitch may get on my last nerve, but I love her apartment. Loved the re-do too. Very Hollywood Regency meets 1970s earthy chic. Loved it. But what did she do to the kitchen? Everyone kept saying she took out her kitchen, but I saw cabinets, a sink, counter tops, and a stove/oven unit. Isn't that a kitchen? As far as I could tell all she did was add a small desk area.

[Mozelle]

No, that was all the hullabaloo when earlier in the season she talked about redesigning her apartment. She joked about taking out the kitchen altogether since she doesn't cook, and a number of people took  her seriously, all, "I can't believe!" and "That's so dumb!" The look she gave to her interior designer told me that she was just being a wise ass.

[FozzyBear]

No, that was all the hullabaloo when earlier in the season she talked about redesigning her apartment. She joked about taking out the kitchen altogether since she doesn't cook, and a number of people took her seriously, all, "I can't believe!" and "That's so dumb!" The look she gave to her interior designer told me that she was just being a wise ass.

But Kristen said it too when Carol was giving them the tour of the redo. She said something about how she should take out her kitchen too, but the kitchen was still there. It didn't even look very different.

[ryebread]

She said she wanted to take out her kitchen but her designer had a fit. Maybe she was joking.  But then she said on Twitter she caved and instead created a hybrid kitchen/office.

 

That says to me she was serious about wanting to lose the kitchen.  She just got vetoed on her own dumb idea by the designer. 

Or Heather told her it was stupid.

[TheFinalRose]

I read "Widow's Guide" too and found it just "meh"---and I say that as a huge Carole fan who adored every beautiful page of "What Remains".

 

 

 

she's mentioned since then that it's much harder to write fiction than she ever realized, and I believe it. And it did feel a bit rushed by the end, so I'm willing to bet that she was as bored and over this story as we the readers are by the end.

 

 

I read The Widow's Guide and What Remains and I feel exactly the same. I think the five years she spent writing the Widow's Guide included one year writing and four years figuring out how to end the story.  And then she gave up and ended with 

the guy never calls and so she moves on. duh.

[Nanny pants]

Yeah. After all the build up and agonizing editing, I found the book to be disappointing and soooo derivative. I hate the term "Chick Lit", but I'd have to use it to describe the work. Sorry, Carole.