Carole Radziwill: She's a Real Princess!

[lawrbk]

If it's a family plot, it's not that uncommon to cremate the bodybury some ashes and have a grave marker but retain some ashes for the family. I know a few people who have done that.

Except he wasn't cremated at all. There was a drawn out court case when the property was sold. The estate was significant to many in the Polish expat community and they sued to keep the bodies buried there from being disinterred. Unless this ends up being a ramification of that case (last I saw an update was 2010-2011) where the bodies were disinterred and Anthony was only recently cremated.

[ryebread]

It's so much misdirection since according to findagrave Anthony is buried in Oxfordshire England with his father Stanislaus.

 

That's curious.

 

In the preview, when she's talking to the priest, there's a tag on the urn that clearly says Anthony Stanislaus Radziwill.  I was giving Radzi the benefit of the doubt and thought maybe she was all 'Have Urn, Will Travel" because she was taking them to her church to talk about having them finally interred. Now that she's got a new boyfriend, it's time to move on and let go.

 

 It's still kind of tacky to allow something that is so deeply personal to filmed for this show but if it's true that he's already buried in Oxfordshire well, alrighty then.  That's just weird.

[jaync]

How deeply personal can it really be, though? It's not as if Carole's husband, marriage and widowhood haven't been a big part of her identity/story over the years.

[Bronzedog]

Carol saying she doesn't want to isolate to fulfill her writing commitments is absurd. Does she think we common folk don't make sacrifices to work? I guess I just answered my own question. Work sacrifices are beneath her. I used to like her but I think this season is going to change that.

[LIMOM]

She comes across completely differently when she is being interviewed on TV.

She was on access Hollywod and despite Billy Bush obnoxious questions, she was likable and not at all as she acts on the RHNY.

[PlasticFlute]

I dont see her being besties with Luann. I thought she was Heaters buddy.

[LilaFowler]

What a bitch.  First, Ramona is fat and can't fit into Carole's clothes.  Then, she says that the numbers Ramona was getting don't really count because of some "midnight rule."  What the hell crawled up her scrawny ass? I think she thinks she's being funny, but ... no.  Ramona is clearly very vulnerable and making nasty "jokes" at her expense just makes Carole look like a See You Next Tuesday.

[ryebread]

Carole on how this season of RHONY is like Sex and the City. 

When asked if the show wants to make her cougar romance a big deal, Carole answered, “Maybe. I haven’t seen how it unfolds, but I know kind of what we filmed and I think it’s a nice little romance on the show. I think the storyline this year is a little bit romance, a little bit fun, a little bit Sex And The City.”

 

No matter how much she wants it and repeats it to others, it's never going to make it so.

 

 

http://www.realitytea.com/2015/04/21/carole-radziwill-dating-younger-men-figuring-get-along-become-friends-bethenny-frankel/

[Mozelle]

And here I do actually see Sex and the City this season. There are eight women in the main cast (of a franchise called Real Housewives), and only two of them are married, and one is in a relationship. The rest are single, footloose, and fancy-free. 

 

I think this season, above all seasons of RHONY, will definitely be the most Sex and the City like.

[robroy]

The only one of these women I could really see on SATC is Luann. Say what you will- she has game. And the switch from Lady to Pirate slayer would make for an awesome setup. Carole and Sonja could pop in as the occasional cautionary tale. Dorinda and Beth would be the typical NYC woman in background or singular interactions.And Ramona would make one hell of a guest appearance.

 

But on the whole- no, just no. I think its odd that the ladies who claim to be the most real (Carole, Beth, Ro) are also wound the tightest & the most protective of their facades. I will however give Carole credit for a more urbane aesthetic and manner about her. Its nice that one of them appears a little more cultivated. 

[KFC]

And here I do actually see Sex and the City this season. There are eight women in the main cast (of a franchise called Real Housewives), and only two of them are married, and one is in a relationship. The rest are single, footloose, and fancy-free. 

 

I think this season, above all seasons of RHONY, will definitely be the most Sex and the City like.

 

I hope it yields another Slutty Island. That was the perfect blend of drama and hijinks as far as HWs vacations go.

[ryebread]

I hope it yields another Slutty Island. That was the perfect blend of drama and hijinks as far as HWs vacations go.

I just wrote a response to one of your posts in the show thread about why this is so different from SATC.  As far as the women's marital status, I agree that they're close to being swinging singles in NYC.  But imo, that's where the similarities end.  Well, and they all like shoes. 

 

Another Slutty Island works for me, too.  That was fun and easy going.  I hope Heather doesn't break her nose again.  I don't think it can take much more. Snerk.  Just one vacation I'd like to see them get through without a fight.  It looks like Heather and Beth are getting along on whatever vacation they're on in the previews.  And no Aviva.  So there's hope.

[motorcitymom65]

Can't re-watch, remembering George is torture enough. Yes, Carole was flirting, even though George was supposed to be set up with Sonja. Why? Just why.

Can't re-watch, remembering George is torture enough. Yes, Carole was flirting, even though George was supposed to be set up with Sonja. Why? Just why.

Ugh. I couldn't rewatch that either.

I didn't get the same vibe about the flirting at all. This was the first night they met George, right? At Aviva's place in Florida? I don't think any of them took him seriously at all. They didn't know what a huge pig he was, even with the way he was talking. They thought it was just an old man trying to be relevant. I thought Carole was just being kind and going with the flow. Actually, Ramona was flirting just as hard if memory serves. He kept telling her what a great ass she had and she was hugging him and getting all up in his space. She was giddy with the attention and Mario did not have two shits to give.

Edited April 24, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[ryebread]

Ugh. I couldn't rewatch that either.

I didn't get the same vibe about the flirting at all. This was the first night they met George, right?

 

That was the point about Carole's bad flirting.  It was the first night she met George. She was leaning into him, gazing flirtatiously into his eyes and touching him while asking when he'd last had sex. And if it was with himself or with someone else. Cringe. Even not knowing what a pig he was at that point, just so...wrong.  I feel like if she was across the table asking the questions it somehow wouldn't be so bad but she was touching him. And batting her eyes.  The hair on the back of my neck is standing up. Feeling faint-ish...

 

Fast forward to her blind double date with Nick. First night she meets him she asks if he masturbates and yammers about orgasm. On the first date! LOL Geez, girl. Does anyone remember how uncomfortable Nick looked? 

 

Alonzo Mosely said, up thread, it's "the DISPLAY in the pursuit that rubs me the wrong way. It is over the top for a reaction." 

 

In that regard, the vibe is similar to George.  Not exactly.  But, like. She's over the top for a reaction.  See also: her flirtation with Bethenny. 

 

But she obviously upped her game because she has a cute boyfriend now.  Chances are good he hasn't seen the squirting orgasm episode.

[Kiss my mutt]

I think Carole must have learned some tips from Aviva's dad.

[LIMOM]

That was the point about Carole's bad flirting.  It was the first night she met George. She was leaning into him, gazing flirtatiously into his eyes and touching him while asking when he'd last had sex. And if it was with himself or with someone else. Cringe. Even not knowing what a pig he was at that point, just so...wrong.  I feel like if she was across the table asking the questions it somehow wouldn't be so bad but she was touching him. And batting her eyes.  The hair on the back of my neck is standing up. Feeling faint-ish...

 

Fast forward to her blind double date with Nick. First night she meets him she asks if he masturbates and yammers about orgasm. On the first date! LOL Geez, girl. Does anyone remember how uncomfortable Nick looked? 

 

Alonzo Mosely said, up thread, it's "the DISPLAY in the pursuit that rubs me the wrong way. It is over the top for a reaction." 

 

In that regard, the vibe is similar to George.  Not exactly.  But, like. She's over the top for a reaction.  See also: her flirtation with Bethenny. 

 

But she obviously upped her game because she has a cute boyfriend now.  Chances are good he hasn't seen the squirting orgasm episode.

How did she end up dating so many "desirable" men?

[walnutqueen]

How did she end up dating so many "desirable" men?

 

Her penchant for blowies?

[LIMOM]

Her penchant for blowies?

She must be a "beast".

[Trooper York]

Here's the deal. We only have Carole's word for the fact that she dated so many "desirable" men.

 

This chef guy seems to want to get a lot of camera time. What's that about? True love?

 

Dude better watch out. He might end up in an ashtray in an uber car in a couple of years.

[jaync]

I think this season, above all seasons of RHONY, will definitely be the most Sex and the City like.

Or just a little bit like it, which is all Carole said.

 

[RedheadZombie]

Carole has always confused me.  To me she comes off as an elitist snob, pretending to be a free-spirited girl who just wants to have fun.  I think what we're getting from Carole is pure persona, with none of her true personality.  And that's fair.  Others have played this game as well - reveal only what you choose to reveal, and control your image. 

 

Last season she lost her mind when it was implied that she was not the consummate professional, literary genius who wrote 100% of her own material.  She was in tears at even the suggestion because all she had was her work.  This season she's the giggly airhead who not only forgets when her deadlines are, she actually forgets she has deadlines.  A contract?  I have a contract with deadlines??? *Giggle*

 

When Carole started on the show, she represented herself as a commitment phobe who couldn't even call Russ a boyfriend.  Not Carole, she's a free spirit who could never settle down and get married ....... except she actually has.  It's one thing to say - I found the love of my life, I married him, I lost him, and I will never open myself up like that again.  But that's not what Carole is saying.  She's the sexually liberated NYC writer who lives for her work, her shoes, and stores her clothes in her oven.  Or is that Carrie?

 

This season's Carole is now a cougar.  She picks up Luann's chef, takes him to a club, eats a drug-laced jellybean her friend gives her, starts tripping, pukes in the pedicab, yet overcomes the vomit (because young guys don't care about vomit around Carole!), scores that night, and he even stuck around the whole next day. 

 

I just can't figure her out.  And judging by the look on Heather's face in the first look, she can't either.  Or she can't keep a straight face at the incredible load of crap that Carole is dishing out.

 

[HumblePi]

Is Carole having a mid-life crisis or something? This season she's suddenly a wanton cougar that preys on young studs for sex. It made me laugh so hard when she was trying to impress the two '20-something' year old guys by telling them that she was the fit model for Guess jeans which became Jordache. They had no clue what Jordache is or was, and she was frustrated trying to get them to understand what a big deal she was then with the first famous name brand jeans and they had no clue at all what Jordache was. "are you sure you're pronouncing it right?" one said to her. Don't even try Carole, just be happy they're satisfied having sex with a cougar that's rich and semi-famous.

Edited April 26, 2015 by HumblePi

[Mozelle]

Is Carole calling Adam her boyfriend, or is she maintaining that she's dating a younger guy? For many people (myself included), "dating" and "boyfriend" are two separate things. I don't know what's contradictory about what she said then about Russell during her first season and now that she's dating Adam. As for the idea that Carole has put forth some carefree, "I'll never get married" persona, I think it's strange to say that she's giving off that vibe given that she actually, you know, did get married and is now a widow.

I'm trying to figure out how her participation on the show now and her comments about being more carefree now (which, actually, isn't all that new. She's talked about how she grew up, and it doesn't seem a contradiction to me) negates the actuality of her having been a married woman two decades ago? I'm really not remembering Carole acting as though she didn't lose a man she loved. Like, that was part of season one. It was especially palpable when the women went to St. Barth's, too.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Mozelle

[One Tough Cookie]

really Carol--puking on your date?  Keeping it klassy, hmmm........

[ryebread]

In addition to not knowing squat about work and contractual obligations, Carole also admits to being "very bad" about paying her bills.  In her purse she carries unpaid bills and final turn off notices. She smilingly says, "I carry them with me, but I never pay them."  Says she's "upscale homeless!"  Isn't that precious? 

 

She could always move into Bethenny's $5mil cardboard box in Soho.  They can be homeless together and spend evenings braiding each other's...hair.

 

"My electricity will be shut off in two weeks if I don't pay. I'll be upscale homeless!"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDTc9HOUIAAzr7w.jpg:large

 

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/carole-radziwill-carries-around-unpaid-bills-whats-in-my-bag-2015174

[Mozelle]

Ooooh. The bag in that video is cute! I also really like her sense of humor because, yeah, I'm doubting that Carole is living in a home where her lights and wifi and heat are shut off or on the verge of being shut off, for that matter. It sounds like the whole bit she did last season when she told her contractor that she wanted to completely take out the kitchen in her home (i.e., being facetious simply to get a reaction, which she routinely does).

 

Oh, and will you look at that. About Adam she says "The guy that I'm dating..."

Edited April 27, 2015 by Mozelle

[ryebread]

I don't take much of what Carole says seriously. I don't really believe that her electricity will be shut off.  But I'm intrigued as to why she thinks it's cute to even say she doesn't want to work, honor contracts or pay bills.  Maybe irresponsibility is Carole's new black.

 

I certainly don't believe she's any more on the verge of being homeless than Bethenny is.  But again, why do they both think it's so cute to even say that? 

 

This:

Last season she lost her mind when it was implied that she was not the consummate professional, literary genius who wrote 100% of her own material.  She was in tears at even the suggestion because all she had was her work.  This season she's the giggly airhead who not only forgets when her deadlines are, she actually forgets she has deadlines.  A contract?  I have a contract with deadlines??? *Giggle*

[nexxie]

Carole is disappointing - more and more, she comes off as shallow and desperate.

[ryebread]

Carole is disappointing - more and more, she comes off as shallow and desperate.

 

I agree but I must admit her boyfriend, on paper, is good looking and talented.  His instagram account makes me hungry.

 

If he can teach her to eat clean, and also extricate her head from her ass, he's got my vote.  He seems like an incredibly hard worker.  Carole better step up her game in that department because in my experience, people like him don't have a lot of tolerance for people like her.  Maybe their relationship will inspire her to write again.  Or maybe by eating something other than M&Ms, pizza, onions and vodka her brain will clear of the fog and she'll stop acting 14.

 

They got a puppy together.  It's cute.

 

Words to live by.  I like him.

https://instagram.com/p/0oNpHBrHMY/?taken-by=adamkenworthy

[jaync]

Adam is all kinds of fine. Get it, Carole.

[Midnight Cheese]

I like Carole's boyfriend, too, ryebread.  Yeah, get it, Carole!  But why won't Adam post recipes on his photos??  I could be a vegan!  (he's a vegan right?  If not he really has the discipline to get his veggies in).

 

Carole bums me out now.  I haven't read her books but it seem before we ever saw her so many people connected to 'What Remains' and felt she would have such depth.  I'm sure it's still there but she just seems mean now.  Taking sides is immature but for whatever reason I hate that she's neutral between Heather and Bethenny, because Bethenny is IMO a fraud and meaner than hell and Heather, flaws and all, seems to have a real heart.  I just don't see any sincerity in Carole.  None of it's happened yet but she seems to have a way about her where completely disregarding how others may feel is just how she is, and wimps gotta deal but she doesn't because she's cool.  Too many words and I still haven't explained what I feel watching her now.  Like - of course it's not that serious but the attitude she apparently has about Luann's niece.  That kind of thing.  Carole could be Nicole's mom.  Would it kill her to not be above-it-all in a bitchy-seeming way?   Be happy about your man but just, you know, be and don't give sharp little commentary and punk out when someone's a bitch to your girlfriend (Heather), when she really stood up for you?  I don't know.

[ryebread]

None of it's happened yet but she seems to have a way about her where completely disregarding how others may feel is just how she is, and wimps gotta deal but she doesn't because she's cool. 

 

See, for me it HAS happened already.  Waaay back at the luncheon that she had with Aviva last season.

 

I know I viewed that lunch much differently than the majority of the viewers. OMG LOL I was on my own lonely, little island here at PreviouslyTV.  But I saw the meanness and the disregard even then. Aviva was the most hated housewife ever (she's since lost her crown to Kim) but imo, what Carole did was akin to gaslighting.  She omitted information to Heather about that lunch and compounded it by pretending to be something she's not.  And then between them they skewered Aviva.  I'm not saying she didn't deserve some of it but Carole is the one that unfairly got that whole thing rolling.  And she let it keep happening.  Imo, of course ;-)

 

Aviva is a lot of things.  But I believe Carole is a lot of things that the viewers would never guess she was.  I hope to see some of it exposed.  But I think Andy will only let it go so far because they're friends.  The rest we'll either see by reading between the lines or we won't.

[jaync]

What are the things the viewers are supposed to be seeing, that so far have been beyond their collective scope?

[Mozelle]

Yeah, I'm curious about this super secret, seen-only-by-some version of Carole that is just lurking and simmering beneath the surface.

[Trooper York]

I agree. Carole has shown us exactly who she is.

An idiot.

[lawrbk]

That's curious.

 

In the preview, when she's talking to the priest, there's a tag on the urn that clearly says Anthony Stanislaus Radziwill.  I was giving Radzi the benefit of the doubt and thought maybe she was all 'Have Urn, Will Travel" because she was taking them to her church to talk about having them finally interred. Now that she's got a new boyfriend, it's time to move on and let go.

 

 It's still kind of tacky to allow something that is so deeply personal to filmed for this show but if it's true that he's already buried in Oxfordshire well, alrighty then.  That's just weird.

It looks like it is a ramification of the court case I mentioned unthread. The property was sold (the estate is now a hotel) and I guess the case against disinterring Anthony and others was lost. I hadn't been able to find an update. The kept mentioning disinterred like the bodies were buried so I don't know if he was recently cremated to make bringing him yo US easier or it was always the case. Hopefully he and his father can remain together though since it was obviously important for Anthony in the first place.

[shoegal]

It looks like it is a ramification of the court case I mentioned unthread. The property was sold (the estate is now a hotel) and I guess the case against disinterring Anthony and others was lost. I hadn't been able to find an update. The kept mentioning disinterred like the bodies were buried so I don't know if he was recently cremated to make bringing him yo US easier or it was always the case. Hopefully he and his father can remain together though since it was obviously important for Anthony in the first place.

Carole mentioned in the episode last night that Anthony was cremated when he died, so he has been interred at the church in London. I didn't know there was a lawsuit, but I think this explains what Carole is doing in a car with the urn.

[quaintirene]

I am like 15 minutes into the first episode because I've been out of town but I had to come on here after watching our girl pretend to be a writer. Again. Here is the translation of what she said: 'the book's in its second printing'= 'the paperback's being printed'. 'I've been asked to write the pilot' = 'they couldn't find an interested screenwriter'. Because if they wanted her to write the pilot that would have been part of the deal which was announced 2 seasons ago. Generally TV options with a chance of getting made are TV options who have recognized writers attached.

Also, at the level that poor idiot paid for her book, there will be hell if Ratso Radzo doesn't deliver. Holt is no longer a small independent publisher. It's backed by a big German firm. But it still tends to frown on editors who make the kind of costly mistakes that the Radziwill deal has turned into. They didn't pay all that money for the novel. They wanted a nice Kennedy-heavy set of gossipy essays. And they've known for ages they were the only ones interested and they didn't need to have paid that much.

[ryebread]

 'I've been asked to write the pilot' = 'they couldn't find an interested screenwriter'.

 

Works for me. 

 

She can't be arsed to finish the table of contents on her long overdue book of essays.  How would she write a TV pilot, assuming she's really been asked?

 

I think the pilot ship has sailed, anyway.  I don't know how well the Widow's Guide to Sex and Dating sold but Lisa Edelstein's character on Girlfriend's Guide to Divorce, sort of filled the TV niche of fictional, single, woman-of-a-certain-age-about-town.

[sasha206]

Carole is flat out embarrassing.  You're what 50 and you're acting like a teeny bopper.  I'm not being ageist as I'm nearing 50 myself.  But I'm embarrassed for her.

[shoegal]

Carole is flat out embarrassing. You're what 50 and you're acting like a teeny bopper. I'm not being ageist as I'm nearing 50 myself. But I'm embarrassed for her.

I think it's worth noting, Carole mentioned in this episode that she was widowed at 34. I believe they were married 5-6 years, and he was sick the whole marriage, so Carole spent much of the marriage as a caretaker and watching her husband decline. Then she spent the rest of her thirties and a good part of her forties in what sounds like pretty deep mourning.

I'm happy for Carole that she seems to finally be happy and enjoying her life again, I think she deserves it.

Fuck Fifty, be happy Carole!!!!

Edited April 30, 2015 by shoegal

[sasha206]

I think it's worth noting, Carole mentioned in this episode that she was widowed at 34. I believe they were married 5-6 years, and he was sick the whole marriage, so Carole spent much of the marriage as a caretaker and watching her husband decline. Then she spent the rest of her thirties and a good part of her forties in what sounds like pretty deep mourning.

I'm happy for Carole that she seems to finally be happy and enjoying her life again, I think she deserves it.

Fuck Fifty, be happy Carole!!!!

 

I've aready expressed my opinion about it on the other thread and was soundly criticized for being "bitter."  Again, I don't care who she dates and my rant wasn't about her dating younger men -- it was about regressing to sounding and acting like a teen.  I think taking gummy bears and puking all over your date is pretty freaking embarrassing.  I mean, come on.  She's worldly enough to know what she was taking was laced with something.   I mean getting drunk and puking on him is sloppy behavior for a 20 year-old.

 

My personal opinion is that she's become really full of herself.  She has been one of my favorites up until now.  

[shoegal]

If she knew the gummy bear was laced with something, Carole is kind of a pot head so she's probably not opposed to a little chemical alteration. Or she didn't think about because she had some tequila, it was Halloween and there was candy. Either way, it doesn't really bother me that much. Carole had a crazy night! It happens!

Edited April 30, 2015 by shoegal

[slitz]

I saw the scene with Carole and Heather differently.  I saw a woman share an embarrassing (there's no denying that!) story with her very close friend, someone that she knew wasn't going to judge her or look down on her.  I don't think Carole wasn't embarrassed by what happened, but at that point, what are you going to do? To me, that was one of the more honest moments of the show and I would love to see more of that, or even moments like the one of Ramona and Dorinda at Ramona's apartment.  Two good friends sharing stories, warts and all and getting a laugh out of it.  Honestly, some of my most embarrassing moments have been sources of great laughter for my closest friends and I.  Would I do it on camera?  No...but then I also wouldn't be on a reality tv show.  I'm uncool, as the Countess would say.  ;)

[sasha206]

I saw the scene with Carole and Heather differently.  I saw a woman share an embarrassing (there's no denying that!) story with her very close friend, someone that she knew wasn't going to judge her or look down on her.  I don't think Carole wasn't embarrassed by what happened, but at that point, what are you going to do? To me, that was one of the more honest moments of the show and I would love to see more of that, or even moments like the one of Ramona and Dorinda at Ramona's apartment.  Two good friends sharing stories, warts and all and getting a laugh out of it.  Honestly, some of my most embarrassing moments have been sources of great laughter for my closest friends and I.  Would I do it on camera?  No...but then I also wouldn't be on a reality tv show.  I'm uncool, as the Countess would say.  ;)

 

I will say that I view Heather and Carole's friendship as being one of the most geniune things I've seen in reality programming.

[MatildaMoody]

Didn't her husband die something like 15 years ago? If she wanted to spread his ashes some place why didn't she do it before? Yes I am being bitchy. Just saying she's had a while to process his death without a TV camera.

His ashes had been interred at a church. The church has been sold and they contacted her to remove the ashes. She talks about it in that scene where Bethenny says something about rebranding death. 

[WireWrap]

Responding to Sincerely Yours....."But that's what Aviva originally suggested. At first Aviva only asked Carole if she used a ghost writer in response to Carole's first insulting question to Aviva about whether Aviva hired a ghost writer, implying that that would be the only way she would legitamize Aviva moving forward with the idea of publishing a book.  Aviva's "well DID YOU use a ghost writer?" To me, in my head, "No? well then why would you're first question to me be if I hired a ghost writer?" was the unsaid end of her true sentiment.  Problems took off afterwards when Aviva tried to run with and validate the idea of an actual ghostwriter. Stupid!

 

Once bookgate was in full force Aviva's defense actually started off by stating that everyone has help so she doesn't understand why Carole is taking such offense but then she made the mistake of taking on the whole ghost writer angle and trying to make it true. That's when Aviva lost me but I was still annoyed with Carole because none of the bullshit would have even started if Carole wasn't so arrogant and sort of demeaning with her approach to Aviva writing a book. As if Aviva had some nerve to try and tackle something that she spent her whole life perfecting, and succedding in only to have some random nobody think they can do it too. I mean anyone can have a baby but birthing a BOOK now THAT's an accomplishment ya know...

 

__________________________________________________________________________________

 

Carole's question to Aviva about using a GW was in reference to having given Aviva a reference/recommendation for/on a specific GW that Aviva asked her about and then used to write her book, Leggy Blonde. That ticked Aviva off, she wanted viewers to think she actually wrote the book herself, which she did not. Aviva then accused Carole of also using a GW and said that she "heard it on the street", Carole said no, that she never used a GW but did have her editor help. Aviva then tried to say an editor and a GW are the same/do the same, which is a lie and Carole called her out on it and off to the races they drug us! LOL

Edited May 6, 2015 by WireWrap

[Mozelle]

Responding to Sincerely Yours....."But that's what Aviva originally suggested. At first Aviva only asked Carole if she used a ghost writer in response to Carole's first insulting question to Aviva about whether Aviva hired a ghost writer, implying that that would be the only way she would legitamize Aviva moving forward with the idea of publishing a book.  Aviva's "well DID YOU use a ghost writer?" To me, in my head, "No? well then why would you're first question to me be if I hired a ghost writer?" was the unsaid end of her true sentiment.  Problems took off afterwards when Aviva tried to run with and validate the idea of an actual ghostwriter. Stupid!

 

Once bookgate was in full force Aviva's defense actually started off by stating that everyone has help so she doesn't understand why Carole is taking such offense but then she made the mistake of taking on the whole ghost writer angle and trying to make it true. That's when Aviva lost me but I was still annoyed with Carole because none of the bullshit would have even started if Carole wasn't so arrogant and sort of demeaning with her approach to Aviva writing a book. As if Aviva had some nerve to try and tackle something that she spent her whole life perfecting, and succedding in only to have some random nobody think they can do it too. I mean anyone can have a baby but birthing a BOOK now THAT's an accomplishment ya know...

 

__________________________________________________________________________________

 

Carole's question to Aviva about using a GW was in reference to having given Aviva a reference/recommendation for/on a specific GW that Aviva asked her about and then used to write her book, Leggy Blonde. That ticked Aviva off, she wanted viewers to think she actually wrote the book herself, which she did not. Aviva then accused Carole of also using a GW and said that she "heard it on the street", Carole said no, that she never used a GW but did have her editor help. Aviva then tried to say an editor and a GW are the same/do the same, which is a lie and Carole called her out on it and off to the races they drug us! LOL

 

Yeah, I thought that was what had happened. Aviva had come to her asking about ghostwriters in the industry, like, just before filming started. When the cameras were on them, however, Aviva tried to flip the script as though Carole had insulted her by asking if she'd decided on a ghostwriter. 

 

It's ridiculous that Aviva would even get upset given that she lists in her book's acknowledgment two or three women who are ghostwriters. 

[Trooper York]

Well it is certainly a good thing that Carole's behavior this season totally validates her claim that she is a serious and dedicated author.

It is not as though she is an empty headed ditz who doesn't like to work and would palm off the hard work to someone else and then take credit for it.

[lunastartron]

Bookgate was unflattering to everyone involved from Aviva's straining to Carole essentially assaulting Aviva in her own home to Heather howling like Teresa Giudice at LuAnn's beach property and attempting to eject someone from a house that she didn't even own . . . Editors and gw are nominally not the same things, but the certainly can functionally be identical even if the person stewarding the manuscript wears the title of "editor." Raymond Carver would not be Raymond Carver in any meaningful sense of what people associate with him without Gordon Lisch; Carver's publishing house recently ran an edition of some of his stories in which both the original and the post-Lisch versions appeared and the difference is great enough that it makes for discrete compositions . . . Aviva's point, poorly articulated, was perhaps Carole received more help than customary in writing WG. This is not uncredible. It was Carole's first try at fiction, which is an entirely distinct form from memoir (ergo why some authors stick to autobiography alone, why some playwrights never venture beyond theatrical scripts, etc) . . . The entire argument between Carole and Aviva and Heather was really knotted and full of faultily constructed and narratively inconsistent contentions from both sides. No, it's not "insulting" for someone to describe their own experience in terms of "writing a long e-mail." Yes, a literature degree from Vassar is probably as relevant to a longform novel as a career in news production. If Aviva did approach Carole about gw, then she might have been pissed that Carole revisited the subject on-camera. This is nonsensical, of course, as she had to credit anyone who contributed to her book, but whatever; if it's Heather's job to instigate - which she does relatively stealthily - then it's possible production put Aviva up to her campaign against Carole, which, in any case, worked.