Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[film noire]

7 hours ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

I hadn't heard this one

Their versions of what happened  (no surprise) completely differ -- Frankel's lawyer said Hoppy denied Bryn/Bethenny an extra day, Hoppy's lawyer denied that and said they had no problem with the day, but wanted to be included in helping Bryn handle the news. 

[SweetieDarling]

12 hours ago, FozzyBear said:

As I have said, I know very little about family court. But regarding things like which address to use on forms, is this what the legal vs physical custody is for? Is legal custody your official legal residence even though you may spend 50% of your time with the other parent? Most of my friends to which this matters have 50/50 or close to it custody and it always seemed like they used whichever address was more convenient to what they were doing (like if one parent lives in a better school district or something), but that could just be my perception. It may be much more involved then that.

In any case, I think 50/50 custody is totally do-able if the parents are willing to communicate and put their love for their children before their hatred for each other...so Bryn is pretty screwed here.

All of the school and medical forms for kids these days have separate sections for Mom's info and Dad's info. It's not one line anymore. The schools will mail each parent information.

[film noire]

From the link posted by Artisto: The court appointed expert (who did the first evaluation years ago, as well as this round of evaluations) thinks 50/50 is best for Bryn:

"In his conclusions, Dr. Ravitz recommended that the custody arrangement not be changed and that both parents get 50/50, according to the informant.

Jason’s lawyers contacted Bethenny’s attorneys and asked to resolve her motion according to Dr. Ravitz’s recommendations, but in their hearing last week Bethenny was still determined to fight for primary custody. “Dr. Ravitz’s report supported Jason’s position that the custody arrangement should not be changed,” the insider explained. 

https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2018/08/bethenny-frankel-jason-hoppy-custody-battle-court-expert-forensic-daughter/

No wonder Hoppy's lawyer went for the jugular in court; Frankel is trying to take his daughter away, despite the psych evaluation saying it's preferable for Bryn to remain in both her parent's care.  Regardless of what her daughter needs, Bethenny will not stop until Bryn's relationship with her father is in tatters. 

Edited August 21, 2018 by film noire

[QuinnM]

Note:  Jason talks to the media. 

[Gem 10]

On 8/20/2018 at 2:51 PM, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

This.  I grew up in a rural place. Many people had to travel for the jobs---- out of town. Weekends were spent back at "home" especially bringing the kids, growing up with cousins, playing in creeks, riding horses, berry picking, hiking mountains, going to church together on Sundays and family meals before going back to work Monday - Friday. I do not find Jason's pattern of going home to Hazelton on the weekends unusual at all. I feel the opposite that it is healthy and commonplace from my world view. 

It is my opinion that when he and Bethenny married they would have to find a compromise or mutual agreement on how to take Jason's existing traditions and likes on the weekend as well as HERS to merge with hers and blend for their marriage and children.  But namecalling Jason for his existing traditions is puzzling to me. That does not make one a mama's boy. Maybe he is one, but that does not make you one.  Leaving NYC on the weekends to chill out sounds perfectly fine to me! 

Being in the city all week, then going to the country on certain weekends is ideal for anyone.  Both offer beautiful experiences.  Pennsylvania is a beautiful state.  Living near the city in my childhood, my parents allowed me to stay with my cousins in the country in another state during the summer months.  It was the best thing.

[glowbug]

New York has both legal and physical custody. A parent can have sole legal custody or joint legal custody. Legal custody involves making important decisions for the child including medical, religious, and educational decisions. In my state, obtaining sole legal custody is incredibly difficult, much more difficult than obtaining sole/full/primary physical custody unless both parents agree to it. You almost never see a parent with joint physical custody and sole legal custody. This is because even an unsafe parent (meaning one that abuses or neglects their child) can still be competent enough to have a say in other areas of the child’s life even if they can’t be trusted to physically take care of them. If you can prove that the parent is so abusive and neglectful (basically abandons the child) that they aren’t competent to have legal custody then they certainly are not competent to have physical custody and should only have supervised visits. Basically, there would be more than enough evidence to involve CPS. 

Physical custody is where the child resides and the basis for determining child support payments. A parent can have sole/primary/full physical custody (sole and primary are the same thing) with the other parent potentially having visitation (supervised or unsupervised) or joint physical custody, which can be equal (50/50) or one of the parents can have more time with the child (60/40, 70/30, etc.). 

None of the articles I’ve read have specified if Bethenny is seeking sole physical custody only or both sole physical and legal custody but it sounds like it’s the latter. I’d be shocked if the psych evaluation found that either parent was unfit or a danger to the child, otherwise the judge would have temporarily given sole custody to the other parent with visitation (supervised or unsupervised depending on the severity) for the unfit parent. I know because I’ve been in a situation as an advocate for the child where a court ordered psych evaluation found that the mother was emotionally abusing the child (who was 9 years old, BTW) and she was immediately removed from the mother’s custody. Having seen true abuse and neglect as part of my employment I very much doubt either Bethenny or Jason is an unsafe parent. One or both may be bad parents, but you’re allowed to be bad parent and still have custody of your child since bad parenting is very subjective whereas unsafe parenting is less subjective. In fact, unless one or both parents is/are abusive or neglectful (in a legal sense) it’s best for the child to have both parents in their life as much as possible. 

My read on this situation is that both parents have done wrong by their child but it seems Bethenny is the only one trying to keep the other parent out of Bryn’s life. Jason has not tried to keep Bethenny out of Bryn’s life. He has asked for joint custody from the beginning. His lawyer brought up concerns about Shields when Bethenny refused to agree to joint custody, which I don’t think was a smart move but understandable. Bethenny asked for a fight and a fight is what she’s going to get. She has already taken the gloves off in court with the first custody hearing and with the restraining order/assault stuff, so it would be naive to expect Jason and his attorney to keep their gloves on. If lobbing petty accusations at him is fair game I can’t fault his team much for throwing them back at her. The difference for me is that Bethenny’s motivation is to limit Bryn’s father’s involvement in Bryn’s life (which would be the case even if Jason somehow retained joint physical custody but lost legal custody), whereas Jason’s motivation is fighting to remain in Bryn’s life as much as possible. 

Edited August 22, 2018 by glowbug

[Jel]

Does bethenny still have to pay spousal support to Jason or is that over now? Anyone know?

[QuinnM]

35 minutes ago, Jel said:

Does bethenny still have to pay spousal support to Jason or is that over now? Anyone know?

No and he was ordered to repay what he had already received.

[Jel]

1 minute ago, QuinnM said:

No and he was ordered to repay what he had already received.

ah, thanks QuinnM. One more question please.....Does she pay child support or do they share that equally? 

[QuinnM]

2 minutes ago, Jel said:

Does she pay child support or do they share that equally?

I think the amount is $12,500.  I remember thinking it was more than Jules ex was required to pay for 2 kids.  It’s a nice sum.  She also pays medical and maintains a life insurance policy.

[Happy Camper]

9 hours ago, SweetieDarling said:

In any case, I think 50/50 custody is totally do-able if the parents are willing to communicate and put their love for their children before their hatred for each other...so Bryn is pretty screwed here.

I think the 50/50 split is most fair to both parents and children. It's a way of life that kids have learned to adapt to and it's so much more common that kids wouldn't think that there is anything weird about it. If handled maturely, much nicer than every other weekend and every 2nd Wednesday with dad or mom. That, to me, is much more disruptive. It puts the child in a position where they are just "visiting" the non custodial mom or dad, rather than shared parenting. That is so unnatural.

Back in my day, when I was a kid,  divorce was very uncommon and I think I only knew a handful of kids whose parents didn't live together. It was weird to me.  People at that time thought that divorce was horrible for kids. Now, it's more common for kids to have divorced parents than not, and step parents, and same sex parents and so on.

It's the new normal. 

Re: Bolded....Bryn would be screwed with any custody arrangement, whether it be 50/50, or 60/40 or 80/20. 

[Happy Camper]

23 hours ago, hottesthw said:

You are making it much more complicated than it is and has to be. She will go to school (a school both parents deem acceptable), and most likely whatever parent lives in the district or closest, she will use that address. If she goes to a library with her dad, she will use his address. If she goes to one near her mom's house, she will use her address. Whoever pays for the health insurance will have their address listed on file with the pediatrician office. Etc etc. Its not all that hard to figure out. When she decides she wants her friends to sleep over, they'll go wherever Brynn is, it won't matter which parents house she is at because Brynn and her friends should be welcome at both parents homes. The dogs live where they live. They don't follow the kid around. Maybe she has a dog at each parents house so she gets a big sloppy puppy kiss each time she returns. 

Millions of kids live a 50/50 life and it actually works quite well because they grow up grounded with both mom and dad a constant in their lives and involved in everything (homework etc). Versus a kid going a week a time without seeing her dad and only getting a few short days with him.

Another issue to consider is this: If Daddy is deemed to be the better parent for physical custody, is Mommy to feel okay about being the parent who just gets visits from their children every other weekend? Is it assumed that this arrangement is okay for Daddy, but not for Mommy?

Edited August 22, 2018 by Happy Camper

[Celia Rubenstein]

9 hours ago, QuinnM said:

Note:  Jason talks to the media. 

 

On 8/20/2018 at 8:17 AM, AnnA said:

LOL !

[Happy Camper]

Question: Does anyone know the filming schedule for RHNY? Will they be filming in March 2019? If so, I can't imagine how Bethenny will be able to keep her shit together if filming coincides with her custody hearing. 

I mean, we saw how she was this season with the end of the RO looming. Will she be able to handle filming and actually being in court at the same time?

Maybe they will have completed filming /+ reunion by then? Is that possible?

If she is filming while engaged in legal battles....likely not going to go well.

[Sew Sumi]

Wasn't Lu's cabaret debut in March of this year? I thought she made mention of the month. So yes, they may well be filming the finale around the time of the custody trial. 

Reunion is filmed with a few episodes left to air. Remember how Lu took a rehab vacation to avoid it this year?

[Happy Camper]

25 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Wasn't Lu's cabaret debut in March of this year? I thought she made mention of the month. So yes, they may well be filming the finale around the time of the custody trial. 

Reunion is filmed with a few episodes left to air. Remember how Lu took a rehab vacation to avoid it this year?

Well, we know that Beth does not film well while under stress from real life ( as opposed to staged/scripted situations, which she likely practices in front of a big mirror regularly and thinks herself so witty, "Hangin' with my snomies, GET IT ?? GET IT???").

Probably a good time for her to step away from the cameras. Lots of good excuses at hand. ( Dealing with grief, legal  situation with Jason, wants to spend more time with Bryn), but I doubt that this would happen. She requires an audience at all times. (I mean, just check out her lame instagram/stories, "look at me, I'm at the ice cream parlour". )

Edited August 22, 2018 by Happy Camper

[film noire]

7 hours ago, glowbug said:

The difference for me is that Bethenny’s motivation is to limit Bryn’s father’s involvement in Bryn’s life (which would be the case even if Jason somehow retained joint physical custody but lost legal custody), whereas Jason’s motivation is fighting to remain in Bryn’s life as much as possible. 

Yes -- so well said.

1 hour ago, Happy Camper said:

Question: Does anyone know the filming schedule for RHNY?

They start filming around Labor Day, and Frankel has yet to sign her contract:

https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/bethenny-frankel-hasnt-committed-to-filming-rhony-season-11/

She should let this year pass her by, imo  -- she's only going to make a mess of things in front of the cameras (understandably, given Shields' death) and since she's set this custody thing in perpetual motion,  every moment of  screaming/sobbing/drinking/nudity will be grist for the custody mill.

 

Quote

Note:  Jason talks to the media. 

Finally.

And good for him  -- if my ex was trying to take away my little girl, I'd be front and center, 24/7,  talking about the lies and spin being spread about this custody case --  even Frankel's own legal team tried to make it sound like the evaluation had confirmed Jason was a danger, when the report showed the opposite:

"Bethenny and Jason's attorneys first discussed an evaluation by Dr. Ravitz, with Bethenny's attorney arguing that the evaluation confirms everything they've said about Jason, that there has been "abusive, intentional behavior that went on, even though the defendant has denied it." 

https://www.eonline.com/news/960755/bethenny-frankel-and-ex-jason-hoppy-continue-custody-battle-after-dennis-shields-death

What are the chances the expert found Jason abusive (in any way, to anyone) but urged he still retain 50/50 custody of his young daughter?  That's what the acknowledged foremost expert in the field does? ("The guy's a lunatic, but the wee girlies love their Daddums, so abusive Daddy makes three!") 

Hoppy's going to need a bigger boat to fight this legal shark. Frankel won't stop until he's ruined, his relationship with Bryn is ruined, and his reputation is ruined (and what Frankel doesn't seem to realize is that Bryn might end up ruined, as well) so once more for the cheap seats:  HEY, ASSHATS --  SNAP OUT OF IT.

Edited August 22, 2018 by film noire

[Jel]

The expert thinks Bryn has two, loving, competent parents. I don't think that comes as a surprise. But the judge is quoted to have said (he was glad to hear that Jason) "is taking steps to get past this anger which is poisoning their ability to co-parent."

That sounds like the judge thinks Jason is the main problem with respect to the daily ins and outs and compromises required for amicable co-parenting.  If there's another way to interpret that statement, I don't see it. Maybe someone could enlighten me.

Just speaking only of Jason for a moment now -- If Jason is in therapy for his anger issues I'd expect to see a more understanding, less demanding and controlling approach going forward, because that's the goal of therapy -- to get yourself functional to the point where anger/sadness whatever is not interfering with your daily life (nutshell version). So far, with Jason's refusal to even allow Bethenny to have extra time with Bryn to tell her about Dennis unless Jason was also present, I'm thinking the therapy has not yet "taken".

I imagine someone would argue that he's Bryn's parent too and he needed to be there in the moment when Bryn was told. I disagree.  Jason could, and should, also talk to her about it, but on another day. Grief takes time.

[Gem 10]

58 minutes ago, Jel said:

The expert thinks Bryn has two, loving, competent parents. I don't think that comes as a surprise. But the judge is quoted to have said (he was glad to hear that Jason) "is taking steps to get past this anger which is poisoning their ability to co-parent."

That sounds like the judge thinks Jason is the main problem with respect to the daily ins and outs and compromises required for amicable co-parenting.  If there's another way to interpret that statement, I don't see it. Maybe someone could enlighten me.

Just speaking only of Jason for a moment now -- If Jason is in therapy for his anger issues I'd expect to see a more understanding, less demanding and controlling approach going forward, because that's the goal of therapy -- to get yourself functional to the point where anger/sadness whatever is not interfering with your daily life (nutshell version). So far, with Jason's refusal to even allow Bethenny to have extra time with Bryn to tell her about Dennis unless Jason was also present, I'm thinking the therapy has not yet "taken".

I imagine someone would argue that he's Bryn's parent too and he needed to be there in the moment when Bryn was told. I disagree.  Jason could, and should, also talk to her about it, but on another day. Grief takes time.

Jason has anger issues?  Geeze .. I wonder why?  What’s wrong with co- parenting?  The kid seems fine.  Too much with this case already.  Come to a fair agreement, and all parties shut up.  Eight years and the same shit.  It’s exhausting.  Time and money wasted and still in square one.  Bryn is eight years old.  Why not ask her how she feels about being with two parents, or favors one?

Edited August 22, 2018 by Gem 10

[ryebread]

42 minutes ago, Jel said:

But the judge is quoted to have said (he was glad to hear that Jason) "is taking steps to get past this anger which is poisoning their ability to co-parent."

That sounds like the judge thinks Jason is the main problem with respect to the daily ins and outs and compromises required for amicable co-parenting.  If there's another way to interpret that statement, I don't see it. Maybe someone could enlighten me.

Oh, oh! Pick me! 

I interpret that statement as: 

"Jason is taking steps to get past this anger which is poisoning their ability to co-parent. (I'd advise Bethenny to start doing the same)."

Or...

" (Living with Bethenny was sure to be rage inducing.) Jason is taking steps to get past this anger which is poisoning their ability to co-parent."

LOL. I'm not a Frankel fan, @Jel so it's easy for me to interpret the judges words differently.  I'd have to see the full transcript for context.

[Jel]

1 minute ago, ryebread said:

Oh, oh! Pick me! 

I interpret that statement as: 

"Jason is taking steps to get past this anger which is poisoning their ability to co-parent. (I'd advise Bethenny to start doing the same)."

Or...

" (Living with Bethenny was sure to be rage inducing.) Jason is taking steps to get past this anger which is poisoning their ability to co-parent."

LOL. I'm not a Frankel fan, @Jel so it's easy for me to interpret the judges words differently.  I'd have to see the full transcript for context.

Well thanks for taking me up on it, Ryebread! 

You think the reporter deliberately left out something in the judge's statement that would reflect poorly on Bethenny? Really? <Scrunching up nose and tilting head sideways> Reaaallly? 

Lol at your alternate interpretations, (and truly, you go with your non-Frankel fanning), but seriously for a minute, without adding any words, can you do it? If we had the transcript to read and that really was all the judge said, is there another way to interpret that statement? 

I'M ASKING!

(a rhetorical question) ;)

[Mozelle]

6 hours ago, film noire said:

Yes -- so well said.

They start filming around Labor Day, and Frankel has yet to sign her contract:

https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/bethenny-frankel-hasnt-committed-to-filming-rhony-season-11/

Oh, wow, that's soon. I thought in seasons past that when the show ended during the summer (particularly late summer) that filming didn't start up again until late October? They're looking to start filming only days after the second part (of a three part reunion? Will there be three parts this year?) of the reunion has aired?

[ryebread]

13 minutes ago, Jel said:

You think the reporter deliberately left out something in the judge's statement that would reflect poorly on Bethenny? Really? <Scrunching up nose and tilting head sideways> Reaaallly? 

A reporter omit information?  What is this impossibility of which you speak?!  ;-) 

If we can't see the transcripts, I'd at least need to see the article where the reporter said that. Because even what you posted, is not complete.

Quote

But the judge is quoted to have said (he was glad to hear that Jason) "is taking steps to get past this anger which is poisoning their ability to co-parent."

In the article did the reporter omit the whole bit before "is taking steps to get past this anger which is poisoning their ability to co-parent."  

Why'd he do that? 

[ryebread]

If filming really starts the day after Labor Day, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if she bails out entirely, or wrangles a deal with Bravo to start mid-season.  But by then she'll be gearing up for her custody hearing. 

I'd sooo skip it, if I were her.  Why did she drop out before? I can't remember.

[Gem 10]

9 hours ago, Happy Camper said:

Another issue to consider is this: If Daddy is deemed to be the better parent for physical custody, is Mommy to feel okay about being the parent who just gets visits from their children every other weekend? Is it assumed that this arrangement is okay for Daddy, but not for Mommy?

I am just wondering how Bryn feels about Bethenny, Jason, and Grandma and Grandpa Pennsylvania.  Where does she like to be, and things like that.  Is she happy in all places?  She’s old enough to talk about her feelings.

[Happy Camper]

16 minutes ago, ryebread said:

If filming really starts the day after Labor Day, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if she bails out entirely, or wrangles a deal with Bravo to start mid-season.  But by then she'll be gearing up for her custody hearing. 

I'd sooo skip it, if I were her.  Why did she drop out before? I can't remember.

If she does decide to bail, this would be a record breaker. She would go down in history to be the ONLY Bravo Housewife to quit TWICE!

[Jel]

39 minutes ago, ryebread said:

A reporter omit information?  What is this impossibility of which you speak?!  ;-) 

If we can't see the transcripts, I'd at least need to see the article where the reporter said that. Because even what you posted, is not complete.

In the article did the reporter omit the whole bit before "is taking steps to get past this anger which is poisoning their ability to co-parent."  

Why'd he do that? 

It's from this E! Online piece:

https://www.eonline.com/ca/news/960803/bethenny-frankel-and-ex-jason-hoppy-continue-custody-battle-after-dennis-shields-death

I'm cynical about journalism these days too, but not so cynical that I think the reporter would intentionally misrepresent what the judge said, by intentionally omitting the very words that would lead a reasonable person to think he meant the opposite. (Now I'd really like to read the entire transcript so I can see how my naive-o-meter is registering these days.) I mean, it's not *impossible* in my mind, but very unlikely.

Why did the reporter leave out those words? I don't know, why do they ever? Do I think it's to push their "pro-Bethenny agenda" (do they have one? I'm not familiar with E Online). Not really. Isn't it equally possible that any missing words may have been something like, "Given Mr. Hoppy's prior arrest for stalking and harassment..."?

[ryebread]

20 minutes ago, Happy Camper said:

If she does decide to bail, this would be a record breaker. She would go down in history to be the ONLY Bravo Housewife to quit TWICE!

If Bethenny doesn't come back, that will be two HWs that Bravo needs to replace. If there is any time to bring back Jill, now would be the time. Get her reacclimated with Sonja, Moaner, Lu. Then bring Bethenny back in. Get rid of Dorinda.

I think a season with just the OGs, would be great.

Bethenny, Jill, Sonja, Lu, and Ramona. New adventures with vignettes of the old. THs mixed in with some roundtable discussion. It would be interesting to hear some behind-the-scenes things.

Time to shake this franchise up a bit. And then after that season, hire two more newbies and give it a go. And change the name. None of these women are Housewives anymore. Some of them never were.

[Rosiejuliemom]

56 minutes ago, ryebread said:

Why did she drop out before? I can't remember.

She got her spin-off.

[Midnight Cheese]

Does anyone really, sincerely, believe Beth wants Bryn to have equal time with her father and his family?  Or that she fundamentally thinks equal time is fair?  I don’t.  

Edited August 22, 2018 by Midnight Cheese

[ladle]

If she leaves to do another spin-off, "Bethenny...Getting Custody?", then I am out. 

[Juliegirlj]

I don’t doubt that Jason may have anger issues with Bethenny, but in all the paparazzi photos I’ve seen of Brynn with Jason she appears to really love being with her Daddy. Considering Bethenny had a less than idyllic childhood, one would think her priority would be for Brynn to have a good relationship with all of her family ( grandparents too). 

I think Bethenny’s wrath knows no limits. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

3 hours ago, Jel said:

The expert thinks Bryn has two, loving, competent parents. I don't think that comes as a surprise. But the judge is quoted to have said (he was glad to hear that Jason) "is taking steps to get past this anger which is poisoning their ability to co-parent."

That sounds like the judge thinks Jason is the main problem with respect to the daily ins and outs and compromises required for amicable co-parenting.  If there's another way to interpret that statement, I don't see it. Maybe someone could enlighten me.

Just speaking only of Jason for a moment now -- If Jason is in therapy for his anger issues I'd expect to see a more understanding, less demanding and controlling approach going forward, because that's the goal of therapy -- to get yourself functional to the point where anger/sadness whatever is not interfering with your daily life (nutshell version). So far, with Jason's refusal to even allow Bethenny to have extra time with Bryn to tell her about Dennis unless Jason was also present, I'm thinking the therapy has not yet "taken".

I imagine someone would argue that he's Bryn's parent too and he needed to be there in the moment when Bryn was told. I disagree.  Jason could, and should, also talk to her about it, but on another day. Grief takes time.

Jason denying Bethenny an extra day to talk to Bryn about Dennis is such a dick move.  He did it just to punish Bethenny, not because he wanted to help Bryn deal with things. How could he think his presence would help anything? It would have made things much worse for the child because it would have made Bethenny even more upset. He knew that. That was his goal. Intrude and interfere and enjoy the pleasure of making Bethenny suffer even more than she already was, or no extra day.  Too bad if Bryn suffers in the process. What a shit he is.

Its not like Jason really knew Dennis - he didn't give a shit about him. The extent of their relationship was a series of harassing emails in which Jason bad-mouthed Bethenny and an ugly public confrontation at Bryn's school that resulted in Jason being subject to a restraining order.  But Jason, the loving, caring father,  generously demands offers to "help" tell Bryn that mommy's married boyfriend OD'd on drugs and went bye-bye permanently and she will never, ever, see him again. What a guy.

I'm glad the judge called him on his bullshit expression of concern for Bryn over Bethenny supposedly placing her at risk by having her around Dennis which oddly enough didn't materialize until the judge was obviously ruling against them. I hope the judge recognizes the denial of the extra day as an extension of the same behavior in Jason ... He is so angry and preoccupied with hurting Bethenny that he will use Bryn to get to her if he has to.  I don't doubt that he loves Bryn just like the evaluation stated, but that love is being superseded by his anger, which does indeed "poison" their ability to co-parent (we are not the only ones who read that, are we @Jel? I'm wondering because the judge saying Jason is poisonous seems to be left out of all the quotes being posted which mention "two loving parents" ... I'm not sure how it could escape notice that while the evaluator did in fact describe two loving parents, only one of them has been described by the judge as poisoning things with his anger, apparently to the extent that therapy was recommended.  Yet Bethenny is the one with the problem. I don't get it).

[Midnight Cheese]

49 minutes ago, Juliegirlj said:

I don’t doubt that Jason may have anger issues with Bethenny, but in all the paparazzi photos I’ve seen of Brynn with Jason she appears to really love being with her Daddy. Considering Bethenny had a less than idyllic childhood, one would think her priority would be for Brynn to have a good relationship with all of her family ( grandparents too). 

I think Bethenny’s wrath knows no limits. 

This is what I was getting at.   Deliberately trying to deprive your kid of family is a shitty thing to do.  We get one chance at this, at giving each child a childhood with loving adults with whom they share a connection. 

[ryebread]

8 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 I'm not sure how it could escape notice that while the evaluator did in fact describe two loving parents, only one of them has been described by the judge as poisoning things with his anger, apparently to the extent that therapy was recommended.  

That we know of.  We've not read the transcript, only a snippet of what one reporter wrote.

Clearly, both of them have anger problems.

FWIW if Jason did deny an extra day so that Bethenny could tell Bryn, then yes, dick move.

Even if it was in retaliation to her doing something like...i dunno... denying him an extra day. 

They both need to stop being so dickish.

[smores]

Kids who have abusive parents love their parents, though.  I'm not saying that Jason abuses Brynn, I'm just saying that you could theoretically have a kid who had a parent who beat them daily and then 20 years later, they wax nostalgic about how "daddy just had to use a firm hand because they were a wild kid"  But, the reality is, daddy was a drunk who was beating the shit out of them.  Kids reframe things, take the good, try to put the bad into a perspective they can accept and move forward.  

Again, I am NOT suggesting that this is the case with Jason and Brynn, just saying that pictures of Jason and Brynn looking happy together don't automatically mean he doesn't have issues that need to be addressed.  Back when his stalking situation occurred, I said that I felt it was probably a situation that spun out of control.  He was angry, he started doing something that felt better, and it just kept spinning and he couldn't move out of his pattern.  I think that's likely still the case, he just isn't able to see that he's stuck in a place where he's making decisions that are not helpful for himself or his child.  I also do not like him, I think he's an emotional bully (literally his first interaction with Bethenny is an act of emotional abuse- negging), but, that doesn't mean that he couldn't make good choices as far as being a good father and co-parent.  He just has to get past the blocks he has and realize that sometimes you have to start from the beginning.  Even though you had a picture of doing things this way (the marriage), even though you've changed that picture (the way things have been since the divorce), sometimes you have to just say, screw it, shit isn't working the way it is, it's time to throw out my mental image of the way it should be and rebuild a new one in a healthier way.  It sounds like the evaluations called for counseling.  Doing that would be a great start, and I hope it helps him to figure out a better way forward.

I get really frustrated when people keep waxing poetic about how spending time in the country in PA would be the very best thing for Brynn.  There isn't just one way of life, and while some people have treasured memories of growing up in the country or spending every weekend surrounded by cousins, or having dinner at grandma's every Sunday, other people did different things.  That doesn't make those other things less of a valid option, nor does it make them wrong.  But many times, people will make it sound like someone who didn't spend a weekend at some relative's house was some deprived child who had a stilted childhood and will never emotionally recover.  I had friends who spent nearly every weekend in the winter on a ski slope, which was fine, they wouldn't trade it for the world.  I, personally, would have HATED that.  I would also have hated being in Hazleton (and I can speak from experience, I have been there many times).  I hated every single time my biofather decided to take me on a tour of the town he grew up in.  I can't stand the area he's from.  But, there are other things that I did frequently as a child, that were formative and I would not change a single moment of it.  Many people, though, would hate it as much as I would have hated skiing.  None of it is wrong, it's just our own individual lives, each of us our different and it's what makes us unique.

[Rap541]

13 minutes ago, ryebread said:

That we know of.  We've not read the transcript, only a snippet of what one reporter wrote.

A reporter doesn't report the juicy tidbit that Jason AND Bethenny are poisoning things with THEIR anger? 

Really? 

Because honestly, I know where the story is and I am not a journalist, and its not with the ex husband, its with Bethenny "On Public Display" Frankel!

[Midnight Cheese]

 No one is really waxing poetic about geography.   They are saying this little girl has living grandparents who love her and are not estranged from her father.   Her mother has no right to make moves to make it impossible for an 8-year old to get to enjoy all of her family, and IMO this is what she’s doing.   B didn’t adopt as a single parent.  She didn’t go the sperm bank and ART route.   She made different decisions involving other competent legal adults.

My girl has only two living grandparents.   I wish she had all four, but we weren’t given that.   This entire circumstance is madness.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Midnight Cheese

[nexxie]

Bryn deserves to get away from this woman at least 50% of the time.

https://people.com/crime/judge-to-bethenny-frankel-stop-wearing-your-daughters-pajamas/

“No more pajamas!” Manhattan Supreme Court justice Ellen Gesmer told Frankel’s lawyer during the reality star’s divorce proceedings, reports the New York Daily News. 

The lawyer, Allan Mayefsky, didn’t disagree with the judge, but did say: “It was done as a joke.” 

“It’s not a joke. Her child is not a joke,” the judge replied sternly, saying Frankel’s photo will have repercussions for Bryn for years to come.

Edited August 22, 2018 by nexxie

[Rap541]

Wasn't this from like five years ago, Nexxie?

[Midnight Cheese]

Not quite four years ago.

[nexxie]

Just now, Rap541 said:

Wasn't this from like five years ago, Nexxie?

Yes - I hit the post button before adding my comment.

[Rap541]

It hasn't happened since. I'm good. 

Speaking of things a judge said to stop, I mean, maybe Brynn should spend more time with Daddy Jason. He can teach her how to send harassing emails! Now thats a parental behavior to emulate! 

[nexxie]

9 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

It hasn't happened since. I'm good. 

Speaking of things a judge said to stop, I mean, maybe Brynn should spend more time with Daddy Jason. He can teach her how to send harassing emails! Now thats a parental behavior to emulate! 

What’s clear is Bethenny is about Bethenny - as the judge pointed out, she wasn’t thinking of Bryn. She didn’t put Bryn first by moving her from apt. to apt. to apt. because Bethenny likes to flip places. To this day, she’s not putting Bryn first by trying to keep her from the rest of her family. B will always put B first. 

Edited August 22, 2018 by nexxie

[Rap541]

And Jason was putting Bryn first with his harassing her mother? Jason was putting Bryn first when he refused to let Bethenny have an extra day to explain Dennis's death?

They're both selfish asses. 

*And for the record, moving a child to a different home is not child abuse. Bryn has lived in several different high end apartments in NYC where she's always had her own lavish bedroom. She still goes to the same school. She's not being moved from NYC to Arkansas to South Dakota to Oregon. 

[VioletMarx]

On 8/20/2018 at 9:28 PM, Rap541 said:

Respectfully, because I in no way have any concerns or fears about Jason Hoppy in this respect, I know a lot of parents who will not allow their prepubescent daughters to attend a sleep over at a home where the only adult present is a single heterosexual adult male. 

I know a lot of parents who will not allow their prepubescent daughters to attend a sleep over at a home where the only adult present is Bethenny Frankel.

Edited August 22, 2018 by VioletMarx

[Rap541]

Well, my original comment was a generality because frankly, I do know a lot of parents who wouldn't be ok with their young daughters sleeping over in a home where the only adult present was a single dad they might not know that well.

But if we're going to talk character....

I wouldn't send a kid of mine to a sleep over at Bethenny Frankel's because I think she's possibly irresponsible and would encourage body issues. 

I wouldn't send a kid of mine to a sleep over at Jason Hoppy's because he's got an anger problem with women and doesn't control himself. 

[VioletMarx]

1 minute ago, Rap541 said:

Well, my original comment was a generality because frankly, I do know a lot of parents who wouldn't be ok with their young daughters sleeping over in a home where the only adult present was a single dad they might not know that well.

But if we're going to talk character....

I wouldn't send a kid of mine to a sleep over at Bethenny Frankel's because I think she's possibly irresponsible and would encourage body issues. 

I wouldn't send a kid of mine to a sleep over at Jason Hoppy's because he's got an anger problem with women and doesn't control himself. 

I know what you were saying and I agree. Just a joke :)

[Rosiejuliemom]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

How could he think his presence would help anything? It would have made things much worse for the child because it would have made Bethenny even more upset. He knew that.

He probably remembered the complete and utter meltdown Bethenny had when Cookie was seizing. Might not be a bad idea to have an adult around who can keep their composure when explaining death to a child. Especially someone that Bryn is close to and trusts.

Not saying Jason is the poster child of stability or anything, just that he might have been more emotionally detached from the situation and able to explain it to Bryn in a way that she can comprehend and not freak her out.

 

My youngest daughter is just a couple months younger than Bryn and I have to do that on occasion. She takes things better if I can remain calm while I'm telling her. If she sees me losing my shit, she is more likely to lose hers.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Rosiejuliemom

[film noire]

2 hours ago, smores said:

Kids who have abusive parents love their parents, though. 

Sure, but that's not the case here.

In this parental situation, the supposedly foremost expert in the field (who knows Bryn from their past evaluation) has decided Jason is a good father, and Bryn deserves to be with him half the time. No accusations that the child loves him because her feelings are enmeshed with abuse -- just a parent worthy of being with his daughter, because he's good for her.

End of story, imo,  for any parent who puts their kid first -- Dr Ravitz says it's best for Bryn to be with Jason half the time? FuckShitDone -- but this is a woman who went to a funeral she was told to stay away from, so other people's needs don't much factor into her choices, imo.

Quote

FWIW if Jason did deny an extra day so that Bethenny could tell Bryn, then yes, dick move.

I would have given her an extra day alone with Bryn after Bryn was told the news, but not before. (No way in hell would I let Bethenny Frankel be alone with my child to explain the death of a loved one. The woman went to pieces over her dog seizing; can you imagine the emotional mess when it comes to Dennis' death? God allmighty, no fucking way. That's a lifelong memory shaping how you handle all the deaths that come after, and-- especially with Bryn still crying in front of Cookie's picture, every day -- leaving Frankel alone with a vulnerable child in that high stakes a moment is only going to lead to disaster, imo).  

 

eta @Rosiejuliemom --great minds &  jinx! I owe you a coke! (or a line of housewife coke :)

Edited August 22, 2018 by film noire