Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[Jel]

14 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

TMZ is reporting that he had taken Vicodin, along with Oxycodone & Ambien, a huge no-no.  So if he awakened feeling really badly, he may have known the trouble he was in.  He was either an established addict, which I'm not prepared to assume, or in that much pain.  My sis had big back trouble at one time, and she spent most of her days effed up on meds.  She was able to shake them off, but doesn't sound like he was on the other side yet.

bethenny-frankel-boyfriend-last-words-explain-trump-tower-death/

I think his wife said something in a good bye message about Dennis finally being free of back pain. It sounds like it may have been a genuine, physical struggle for him.

[chick binewski]

38 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

Bryn currently sees her father and his family without chaperones, ie  not supervised visitation. If Brynn wants to talk and you know ,tell these dark and scary secrets, she gets two weeks out of the month to do so. If Bethenny were to receive sole custody. Brynn would still have this opportunity because the physical custody agreement isn't up for discussion currently. Brynn isn't being isolated, she has a whole week every other week where her dad can expose her to his POV and have deep frank discussions. Bryn is also getting to an age where what she wants starts to be more in play.

I'm going to lump Carole in with Jason and the Hoppys in that if she witnessed something or heard something from either Bethenny or Bryn that was "scary" and has done nothing because being ass buddies with Bethenny was more important until just recently, then she's a monster. 

And if she's just taking the view that "When Bethenny and I were friends, I thought she was a great mom, but now that I am pissed with her, I now think she's a terrible mom" well... forgive me but she's also got an ulterior motive to suddenly find her voice.

Again, I wasn't addressing any attempts at possibly dark or scary behavior being hidden - but rather one parent wanting to ensure their own influence is the strongest (if not only) one the child feels.  

[smores]

It's funny that somehow Bethenny is the one that is trying to ensure she gets to keep her nefarious clutches on Brynn.  It's not like it's equally possible that Jason is or has been doing some scary shit behind closed doors (note, I am NOT suggesting he is molesting her, I want to be VERY clear on that), and Bethenny's move for sole custody is to protect Brynn.  No one has all of the facts, so it really could go either way.  Both had to submit to a psych eval, and it's just as likely that there are things that turned up in Jason's that are not going to look great as it is that there are in Bethenny's.

There is a really large (and growing), problem with addiction.  I think there are many people who underestimate how close addiction really is to them.  Until you have to know, you really have no idea how close it may be to you and your loved ones.  I truly pray that people never have to find out, but, it's really not as easy as saying oh, Bethenny should have known or should never have left Brynn with Dennis.  The facts still aren't known about how he died, but, in the event that it was an OD, it could have been the first sign that he had a problem with the meds.  It's really a scary epidemic.

[nexxie]

12 hours ago, Rap541 said:

Really? Brynn attends public school at last check. Public schools are filled with required reporters. Bryn also has had a psych exam by the judge appointed third party. She is seen publically with her father and does actually go to live with him every other week. As many have said, if Bethenny were to receive sole custody, that does not mean Jason "will never see his daughter again" - she will still have time with him and his family. Even if Bethenny received sole custody, she would have to seek permission from Jason to move Bryn out of state... and face legal penalties if she ignored the courts in this respect.

Unless there is a major change in how Beth handles this kid, I see no indication that Brynn is being kept isolated from others, and I don't see any signs that Bethenny's ultimate plan is to hide the child away in isolation from the public.

Frankly, I assumed the ulterior motive was for Brynn to be allowed to be on the show... and trust me that won't be *isolating* Brynn.

If Brynn has said things to Daddy Jason and Grandparents Hoppy that are so scary and true, then they are monster for letting her go back to a woman who does scary, true things to her and around her to where she is crying out to help to her family.

If that's true, then they are awful people.

And personally, I don't think it's true. Not after watching Jason leap on the Dennis situation... if Bryn was telling a tale that would score him custody, he'd have her reciting it at a press conference. 

If Jason has reason to believe that Bethenny has narcissistic personality disorder or is high in narc traits (and anyone who has seen this condition up close and has watched Bethenny’s behavior has reason to believe it’s likely), he should “leap on” ANY opportunity to protect his daughter. Narcissists are incredibly good at conning those who should be evaluating them (judges, therapists, etc.) - and it’s never easy to take a child from its mother even if she’s a horror.

[smores]

It's just funny that Jason had none of these suspicions until AFTER the judge said they were going to set the trial date for March.  Jason had no problem with Bethenny's relationship with Dennis when he died.  He had no problem with it when they first got to court.  He was completely fine with the shared custody.  Once the judge said they'd have a trial, Jason suddenly found this grave concern that he had to voice?  Yeah, that's a bit off.  If it was a true, serious concern that he had, why didn't he file an immediate motion about it as soon as he heard the news?  Hell, Brynn was with him when the news broke.  He could have filed for some sort of immediate order and tried to keep custody of her until it was resolved.  But no, his concerns only popped up once it was clear he wasn't winning.  

[Rap541]

It's been pointed out repeatedly that Betheny having sole custody does not mean that Jason's physical custody of Bryn would alter or that Jason would be denied any or all access to his child.  There is no danger that Jason is not able to or will not be able to influence Bryn. 

Quote

If Jason has reason to believe that Bethenny has narcissistic personality disorder or is high in narc traits (and anyone who has seen this condition up close and has watched Bethenny’s behavior has reason to believe it’s likely),

Then maybe *Jason* should be filing for sole custody?

Unfortunately when it comes to diagnosing Bethenny with narcissistic personality disorder, Jason will need to have an actual professional get involved. Personally, I think she's more neurotic than anything else... and is probably too successful to have full blown NPD. But if this is a genuine concern, perhaps it's time Jason makes this his bitch point? And not that Dennis Shields may have been a drug addict? Or both - I'm easy - but it's really *Jason* who needs to sack up and say he thinks Bethenny has a severe personality disorder and should not have custody of their child. 

I assume he knows her better than I do, so until he's willing to commit to that course of action, I have to assume that Jason isn't that concerned with Bethenny's actual parenting. 

[nexxie]

13 minutes ago, smores said:

It's just funny that Jason had none of these suspicions until AFTER the judge said they were going to set the trial date for March.  Jason had no problem with Bethenny's relationship with Dennis when he died.  He had no problem with it when they first got to court.  He was completely fine with the shared custody.  Once the judge said they'd have a trial, Jason suddenly found this grave concern that he had to voice?  Yeah, that's a bit off.  If it was a true, serious concern that he had, why didn't he file an immediate motion about it as soon as he heard the news?  Hell, Brynn was with him when the news broke.  He could have filed for some sort of immediate order and tried to keep custody of her until it was resolved.  But no, his concerns only popped up once it was clear he wasn't winning.  

There’s just no way to know what Bryn has said to caregivers, whether Jason thinks she’s safe or in danger - or what the most effective legal strategy would be in any case.

[Jel]

3 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

It's been pointed out repeatedly that Betheny having sole custody does not mean that Jason's physical custody of Bryn would alter or that Jason would be denied any or all access to his child.  There is no danger that Jason is not able to or will not be able to influence Bryn. 

Then maybe *Jason* should be filing for sole custody?

Unfortunately when it comes to diagnosing Bethenny with narcissistic personality disorder, Jason will need to have an actual professional get involved. Personally, I think she's more neurotic than anything else... and is probably too successful to have full blown NPD. But if this is a genuine concern, perhaps it's time Jason makes this his bitch point? And not that Dennis Shields may have been a drug addict? Or both - I'm easy - but it's really *Jason* who needs to sack up and say he thinks Bethenny has a severe personality disorder and should not have custody of their child. 

I assume he knows her better than I do, so until he's willing to commit to that course of action, I have to assume that Jason isn't that concerned with Bethenny's actual parenting. 

Agreed, and even then psychologists and psychiatrists would probably disagree about the diagnosis. This stuff is really not binary. They'd all find anxiety though, that much I do know. She may be higher than your average bear on narcissistic traits, but NPD? No, I don't see that either.

Every time I see the word "narc", I get all head turny saying Who!? Where!? ;) (not literally)

[nexxie]

10 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

It's been pointed out repeatedly that Betheny having sole custody does not mean that Jason's physical custody of Bryn would alter or that Jason would be denied any or all access to his child.  There is no danger that Jason is not able to or will not be able to influence Bryn. 

Then maybe *Jason* should be filing for sole custody?

Unfortunately when it comes to diagnosing Bethenny with narcissistic personality disorder, Jason will need to have an actual professional get involved. Personally, I think she's more neurotic than anything else... and is probably too successful to have full blown NPD. But if this is a genuine concern, perhaps it's time Jason makes this his bitch point? And not that Dennis Shields may have been a drug addict? Or both - I'm easy - but it's really *Jason* who needs to sack up and say he thinks Bethenny has a severe personality disorder and should not have custody of their child. 

I assume he knows her better than I do, so until he's willing to commit to that course of action, I have to assume that Jason isn't that concerned with Bethenny's actual parenting. 

Even if Bethenny does have npd, borderline or another personality disorder, it’s likely she’s smart/manipulative enough to con those evaluating her - after all, a lot of people are impressed by her brash/abusive behavior. Who know’s what the right legal strategy might look like?

[smores]

Wow, that Bethenny.  She's able to outsmart the whole world.  It's amazing these legal cases have drug on so long, given her powers.  

Honestly, just about everyone scores somewhere on personality disorder charts.  There are professionals who diagnose these things for a reason.  Every person out there has some level of narcissism in them, and some level of borderline personality, etc.  It's more than just checking boxes on a list.  But, I'm confident that since the judge ordered full evaluations, if there is anything on either party, it will be turned up.   

[nexxie]

Just now, smores said:

Wow, that Bethenny.  She's able to outsmart the whole world.  It's amazing these legal cases have drug on so long, given her powers.  

Honestly, just about everyone scores somewhere on personality disorder charts.  There are professionals who diagnose these things for a reason.  Every person out there has some level of narcissism in them, and some level of borderline personality, etc.  It's more than just checking boxes on a list.  But, I'm confident that since the judge ordered full evaluations, if there is anything on either party, it will be turned up.   

At least she’s no longer able to fool Carole!

[smores]

I am personally of the opinion that Carole no longer had a  use for Bethenny (and, look, maybe she found her overwhelming, fine), and Carole has been gaslighting her way out of the friendship rather than just saying, hey, look, this got to be too much and I can't do it.  But, I get other people see it differently.  What I don't understand, though, is that if Carole somehow woke up and discovered that Bethenny had been putting on some sort of show, and she now sees things differently, why isn't she trying to help Brynn?  If I were in Carole's shoes and found out that I had been dispensing information that was trashing (wrongly), the parent of a child, then I'd be doing what I could to set that record straight.  After all, if I did it in the first place because I thought I was doing the right thing for the child, then I'd have the obligation to correct my  mistake, wouldn't I?

[nexxie]

We don’t know what Carole may be doing behind the scenes - whether or not she has spoken to officials. It’s also possible that she sees Bethenny as toxic for her, but not for Bryn - Carole isn’t a mother herself.

[Jel]

23 minutes ago, nexxie said:

Even if Bethenny does have npd, borderline or another personality disorder, it’s likely she’s smart/manipulative enough to con those evaluating her - after all, a lot of people are impressed by her brash/abusive behavior. Who know’s what the right legal strategy might look like?

Are people impressed by her "brash/abusive behavior"? Really?

[nexxie]

1 minute ago, Jel said:

Are people impressed by her "brash/abusive behavior"? Really?

Keeps her on tv.

[Jel]

2 minutes ago, nexxie said:

Keeps her on tv.

Are there people who are impressed by it though?  I'm racking my brain trying to figure out who those people would be. (And trying to think of ways I can avoid such people in dark alleys)

For me, her appeal as a tv personality lies in other areas.

[Rap541]

8 minutes ago, smores said:

Wow, that Bethenny.  She's able to outsmart the whole world.  It's amazing these legal cases have drug on so long, given her powers.  

Funny that she's so clever, and yet she still hasn't ripped that child from her father. Legally. SInce she is so clever and outsmarts everyone.

17 minutes ago, nexxie said:

Even if Bethenny does have npd, borderline or another personality disorder, it’s likely she’s smart/manipulative enough to con those evaluating her - after all, a lot of people are impressed by her brash/abusive behavior. Who know’s what the right legal strategy might look like?

Well, what we do know is that Jason isn't pursuing sole custody. Jason isn't demanding she be evaluated for NPD. Until that changes, I have to assume Jason isn't bothered enough by the behavior to make it a part of his current legal strategy. 

As to Bethenny's ability to be smart/manipulative? I don't think she's a super villian. What's that line from ER? Oh yeah, she's not that pretty and she's not that special.

Quote

At least she’s no longer able to fool Carole!

Not sure Carole deserves a prize for being too dumb to know what Bethenny was... particularly when she clearly loved shoving her head up Bethenny Frankel's ass. 

[Jel]

Question: If Jason were to sue for full custody and win, what would that do to his child support payments from Bethenny? Would they increase, decrease, stay the same?

[nexxie]

3 minutes ago, Jel said:

Are there people who are impressed by it though?  I'm racking my brain trying to figure out who those people would be. (And trying to think of ways I can avoid such people in dark alleys)

For me, her appeal as a tv personality lies in other areas.

Shouldn’t take “racking” to figure out that Andy didn’t hire B for her sweetness and light - she’s paid for her brash/abusive put-downs.

[Jel]

1 minute ago, nexxie said:

Shouldn’t take “racking” to figure out that Andy didn’t hire B for her sweetness and light - she’s paid for her brash/abusive put-downs.

Welp, since I don't watch the show for that, it actually does take some brain racking for me to figure out who the people who are impressed by brash and abusive behavior. I'm still wondering.

[Natalie68]

14 hours ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

She has mentioned that she wants to be able to pull Bryn out of her current school in favor of home-schooling her. Her reasoning was that she wants to be able to take Bryn on trips whenever she (Beth) wants to.

Also, if she has sole legal custody, I believe she could consent to have Bryn filmed for the show. 

I don't necessarily think the 1st point above would be bad.  I mean she has the resources to give Bryn a good education and she isn't a Duggar!  The 2nd point I hope she never brings Bryn on the show.  I don't like that kids are on it because they cannot consent to be on tv and perhaps they would prefer not to be.

[Jel]

1 minute ago, Natalie68 said:

I don't necessarily think the 1st point above would be bad.  I mean she has the resources to give Bryn a good education and she isn't a Duggar!  The 2nd point I hope she never brings Bryn on the show.  I don't like that kids are on it because they cannot consent to be on tv and perhaps they would prefer not to be.

Agree 100%. Travelling is an education in itself, so no problem with that. But no to being on the show. A big old no to that one. 

I don't recall hearing one way or another (from Bethenny) if she'd want to have Bryn on the show, so I don't know if that's her end goal or just speculation. Really hope it's just speculation.

[Natalie68]

6 hours ago, ryebread said:

I used to joke with the parents of my kindergarten students:  "I promise to believe only 50% of what they tell me about you, if you promise to believe only 50% of what they tell you about me.

This is one reason why I loved teaching the littles.  Innocent, active imaginations. <3

This made me laugh.  When I was in kindergarten I apparently said something to one of my teachers that she later told me  as an adult she had to know it was false because it was crazy (she was friends w my mom).  I am always tempted to ask her what I said because maybe it was false, maybe not.  My parents, while I loved them, were not great by the time I came along.

My hope for B and J is they BOTH get their shit together and quit fighting over their child.  While I think Jason is a dick and never liked him, I don't see how he would physically harm his child.  As long as he (and B as well) keep their opinions about each other away from Bryn.  They keep this up they will fight away her entire childhood.  

[SuprSuprElevated]

1 minute ago, Natalie68 said:

As long as he (and B as well) keep their opinions about each other away from Bryn.

I really don't believe that to be possible, when the hate is that deep.

[Natalie68]

1 hour ago, smores said:

It's just funny that Jason had none of these suspicions until AFTER the judge said they were going to set the trial date for March.  Jason had no problem with Bethenny's relationship with Dennis when he died.  He had no problem with it when they first got to court.  He was completely fine with the shared custody.  Once the judge said they'd have a trial, Jason suddenly found this grave concern that he had to voice?  Yeah, that's a bit off.  If it was a true, serious concern that he had, why didn't he file an immediate motion about it as soon as he heard the news?  Hell, Brynn was with him when the news broke.  He could have filed for some sort of immediate order and tried to keep custody of her until it was resolved.  But no, his concerns only popped up once it was clear he wasn't winning.  

Very true @smores!  

[Rosiejuliemom]

13 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

I don't necessarily think the 1st point above would be bad.  I mean she has the resources to give Bryn a good education and she isn't a Duggar!  The 2nd point I hope she never brings Bryn on the show.  I don't like that kids are on it because they cannot consent to be on tv and perhaps they would prefer not to be.

I don't think it would be completely horrible, either. I'm all for traveling. However, why subject Bryn to more upheaval and turmoil when it isn't necessary? Bryn is seemingly well-adjusted and it isn't known if she has had any problems at school.

I'm sure Bethenny can provide Bryn with wonderful life experiences and more travel opportunities than I'll ever have, and she can do it on school breaks. Millions of other families manage. Even taking the time split with Jason into account, she could do it.

[SuprSuprElevated]

Just now, Rosiejuliemom said:

I don't think it would be completely horrible, either. I'm all for traveling. However, why subject Bryn to more upheaval and turmoil when it isn't necessary? Bryn is seemingly well-adjusted and it isn't known if she has had any problems at school.

I'm sure Bethenny can provide Bryn with wonderful life experiences and more travel opportunities than I'll ever have, and she can do it on school breaks. Millions of other families manage. Even taking the time split with Jason into account, she could do it.

^All of this, plus with the upheaval and animosity which is no doubt a part of her life, why not give the kid a chance to be a kid, with other kids, doing kid things.  It might be the only chance she gets to not grow up to be homicidal.

[QuinnM]

2 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

All of this, plus with the upheaval and animosity which is no doubt a part of her life, why not give the kid a chance to be a kid, with other kids, doing kid things.  It might be the only chance she gets to not grow up to be homicidal.

This summer Brynn and her bestie went to CA when Bethenny was filming Shark Tank.  They did Universal and then a bunch of stuff.  Then just a couple weeks ago a Brynn and Bethennny did a long weekend in Orlando, stayed at the Four Seasons, spend a day on the lazy river, went to Harry Potter world, got a wand, got flight canceled at the gate so spent another day at the Four Seasons at the pool.  Kid things.

[SuprSuprElevated]

4 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

This summer Brynn and her bestie went to CA when Bethenny was filming Shark Tank.  They did Universal and then a bunch of stuff.  Then just a couple weeks ago a Brynn and Bethennny did a long weekend in Orlando, stayed at the Four Seasons, spend a day on the lazy river, went to Harry Potter world, got a wand, got flight canceled at the gate so spent another day at the Four Seasons at the pool.  Kid things.

School's cool too.  Like in a school building.

[QuinnM]

4 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

School's cool too.  Like in a school building.

You know I don’t remember the home school discussion.  More recently last year when someone asked if Brynn went to private school (this actually was before the Hoppy school meltdown) she said no.  She said that it was a great school.  That Brynn loved her teachers and had really good friends there.  Someone in the twitter thread pointed out that in NYC that public was nice because your kids made friends with kids in the neighborhood so you could really do things after school and Bethenny concurred.  Bethenny has said numerous time in Insta that she was lucky because with her job she could schedule work while Brynn was in school or with her dad.  She said she realizes everyone doesn’t have that luxury.

[Happy Camper]

4 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

You know I don’t remember the home school discussion.  More recently last year when someone asked if Brynn went to private school (this actually was before the Hoppy school meltdown) she said no.  She said that it was a great school.  That Brynn loved her teachers and had really good friends there.  Someone in the twitter thread pointed out that in NYC that public was nice because your kids made friends with kids in the neighborhood so you could really do things after school and Bethenny concurred.  Bethenny has said numerous time in Insta that she was lucky because with her job she could schedule work while Brynn was in school or with her dad.  She said she realizes everyone doesn’t have that luxury.

If I recall correctly, I believe that Bethenny made a comment about home schooling at the time of the school shootings.

I saw her point.

[Normades]

4 hours ago, diadochokinesis said:

I’ve known some people on long-term oxy and they take care of their kids by themselves.  For some, it doesn’t knock them out or anything.  It is a low enough dose that it allows them to function in their lives but not make them high/catatonic. It is also possible that the oxy was taken as needed so that when he was with Bryn, he wasn’t on the meds.  There are a lot of variables out there that nobody knows.  It is part of the reason why I have an issue with the leap that Jason took from Dennis’s death (with a pending ME report so COD is not yet known) to drug testing B because of course she must be a drug user too. 

I don't understand why people are upset that Jason is asking about the possibility of opioid use around his daughter.  If my young child had been around someone who just OD'd I would be asking some serious questions.  I think it is his duty as a parent.  I'm sure he has a lot of animosity toward B and Shields considering the fighting we've heard about, but I would seriously be upset if my partner knowingly or unknowingly exposed my young child to this alleged situation.  Now maybe Shields was not an addict and was taking medication as directed, etc., but the possible overdose does not jive with that assumption.  You are right that many parents take these medications and function, taking care of their own children.  The difference is they are the parents of those children; they are a vital part of that child's life.  As long as the parent is carefully following instructions and locking medications away, I can understand not removing a parent from the child's life unless there is some evidence of more serious issues.  Shields was not Bryn's parent.  He didn't have to be a part of her life.  He might have been a wonderful male figure to her and they might have had a beautiful relationship, but he was not her father.  There are so many things that can go wrong quickly with heavy drugs like this that I don't see a reason to tempt fate and allow him to be alone with the child.  If the roles were reversed does anyone believe B would not be screaming from the highest mountain over Jason's negligence??  Jason might be an ass and maybe he brought out the issues in a retaliatory manner, but I would think he was a negligent parent if he didn't question and investigate this situation.  

[Mozelle]

1 hour ago, smores said:

I am personally of the opinion that Carole no longer had a  use for Bethenny (and, look, maybe she found her overwhelming, fine), and Carole has been gaslighting her way out of the friendship rather than just saying, hey, look, this got to be too much and I can't do it.  But, I get other people see it differently.  What I don't understand, though, is that if Carole somehow woke up and discovered that Bethenny had been putting on some sort of show, and she now sees things differently, why isn't she trying to help Brynn?  If I were in Carole's shoes and found out that I had been dispensing information that was trashing (wrongly), the parent of a child, then I'd be doing what I could to set that record straight.  After all, if I did it in the first place because I thought I was doing the right thing for the child, then I'd have the obligation to correct my  mistake, wouldn't I?

Clearly Bethenny knows this because she’s said on more than one occasion—including that moment in the finale when Bethenny was bitching as she was getting hair and makeup done that Carole is superficial—that Carole has told her that it’s too much and it’s too deep. It’s been very clear that this comment has stuck in Bethenny’s craw because that wasn’t the first she’s said of it to someone, re: Carole and their friendship.

As for the other bold statement: come on. What is Carole supposed to do? Like, this suggestion can’t really be serious. Bethenny is tied up for yearrrrsssss legally with the man who gave Bryn half of her DNA, and you think that Carole should insert herself in that to do what? To say, “Hey, Judge, can I tell you about the friendship I had with Bethenny and how it went south? And because of this, I think I have concerns about Bryn’s welfare.”

Edited August 17, 2018 by Mozelle

[smores]

I guess my point is that Jason needs to be careful throwing stones.  It's really easy to launch a rock into Bethenny's house right now, but, for all he knows, the babysitter he has that watches Brynn before he gets home from work on his visitation had a drug problem.  You don't know these things until it's too late sometimes.  Automatically assuming that Bethenny was negligent in this case, when we don't even know what happened yet with Dennis is kind of crazy, unless both parties are going to start subjecting every person around Brynn to routine tox screens.  Every relative, every babysitter, every teacher, etc.  Anyone around you could have a substance abuse problem that is under the radar, and until it's suddenly a big problem, you just don't know.

[QuinnM]

21 minutes ago, Happy Camper said:

f I recall correctly, I believe that Bethenny made a comment about home schooling at the time of the school shootings.

I saw her point.

Ahhh, yes that makes sense. It also explains why I discounted it. I know parents with kids in any school just freak out whenever there’s a shooting. I just don’t know what I’d do if I had a child I’m school these days. 

[twilightzone]

2 hours ago, smores said:

I am personally of the opinion that Carole no longer had a  use for Bethenny (and, look, maybe she found her overwhelming, fine), and Carole has been gaslighting her way out of the friendship rather than just saying, hey, look, this got to be too much and I can't do it. 

It was more like Bethenny was jealous of Carole's friendship with Tinsley.  It's all about Bethenny's ego and needing to be the center of attention.

3 hours ago, smores said:

If it was a true, serious concern that he had, why didn't he file an immediate motion about it as soon as he heard the news?  Hell, Brynn was with him when the news broke.  He could have filed for some sort of immediate order and tried to keep custody of her until it was resolved. 

There wasn't enough information at the beginning.  And it was a very short period to when he filed.

Trust me, if the situation was reversed, Bethenny would not hesitate to do the same thing.  Any parent would.

Edited August 17, 2018 by twilightzone

[Happy Camper]

18 minutes ago, Normades said:

Shields was not Bryn's parent.  He didn't have to be a part of her life.  He might have been a wonderful male figure to her and they might have had a beautiful relationship, but he was not her father.  There are so many things that can go wrong quickly with heavy drugs like this that I don't see a reason to tempt fate and allow him to be alone with the child.  If the roles were reversed does anyone believe B would not be screaming from the highest mountain over Jason's negligence??  Jason might be an ass and maybe he brought out the issues in a retaliatory manner, but I would think he was a negligent parent if he didn't question and investigate this situation.  

Absolutely she would be.  No doubt in my mind.

I have no problem with Jason raising his concerns. He has every right, just as Bethenny has the right to raise any concerns that she would have. It's called being a protective parent.

[smores]

He didn't file a motion though.  He waited until they were already in court, for a previously scheduled hearing, and asked to keep joint custody.  The judge then said they'd move forward with a trial to determine the issue of joint vs sole custody.  At THAT point, suddenly Jason had a concern about Dennis and his involvement in Brynn's life.  He didn't file any motions, he didn't have the issue raised before they started anything, which is what I'd have done if I felt it was such a pressing thing.  He ONLY brought it up as a point to try to bolster the argument he'd already lost.  

[Happy Camper]

11 minutes ago, smores said:

He didn't file a motion though.  He waited until they were already in court, for a previously scheduled hearing, and asked to keep joint custody.  The judge then said they'd move forward with a trial to determine the issue of joint vs sole custody.  At THAT point, suddenly Jason had a concern about Dennis and his involvement in Brynn's life.  He didn't file any motions, he didn't have the issue raised before they started anything, which is what I'd have done if I felt it was such a pressing thing.  He ONLY brought it up as a point to try to bolster the argument he'd already lost.  

I think that he was still right to bring it up and he likely would have regretted it if he hadn't taken that opportunity to report his concerns. 

Perhaps he was trying to be sensitive to Bethenny's situation and then thought "Hell, no, I'm not letting this go".

[film noire]

On 8/17/2018 at 1:07 PM, nexxie said:

 after all, a lot of people are impressed by her brash/abusive behavior. 

Yeah, she gets lots of "you go girl!" praise on social media after behaving badly on the show.

But far worse than that (to me) is her description of Dennis' reaction to her slut-shaming of Luann -- that he thought it was hilarious and cheered her on --  she found someone to not just enable her worst behaviour, but praise her for it.  That doesn't make for a happy or healthy dynamic, imo.

 

Quote

@smores

He didn't file a motion though.  He waited until they were already in court, for a previously scheduled hearing, and asked to keep joint custody.  The judge then said they'd move forward with a trial to determine the issue of joint vs sole custody.  At THAT point, suddenly Jason had a concern about Dennis and his involvement in Brynn's life.  

Which is exactly what I'd do;  I'd go into court willing to share custody (despite my concerns) because Bryn needs both parents -- especially in the wake of losing Dennis -- the kid likely craves (and needs) the stability and calm of nothing changing in her emotional landscape for a very long time. 

But if my ex demanded sole custody -- in the wake of this weird troubling loss for our child? --  I'd play hardball.  Because it's one thing to be able to legally curtail the worst instincts of your ex (on both sides of this former marriage);  it's another to have free reign over crucial decisions and parental choices in Bryn's life. 

Edited August 19, 2018 by film noire

[ryebread]

2 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

This made me laugh.  When I was in kindergarten I apparently said something to one of my teachers that she later told me  as an adult she had to know it was false because it was crazy (she was friends w my mom).  I am always tempted to ask her what I said because maybe it was false, maybe not. 

You should ask!  I taught at the school down the street from my house.  Still live there.  I run into my old students and/or their parents all the time in the neighnorhood..  Grocery stores, waiting rooms, backyard bbqs.  I always tell them the funny memories I have of them. They get a kick out of hearing them and I love telling them. Ask her!!

[Jel]

1 hour ago, Normades said:

I don't understand why people are upset that Jason is asking about the possibility of opioid use around his daughter.  If my young child had been around someone who just OD'd I would be asking some serious questions.  I think it is his duty as a parent.  I'm sure he has a lot of animosity toward B and Shields considering the fighting we've heard about, but I would seriously be upset if my partner knowingly or unknowingly exposed my young child to this alleged situation.  Now maybe Shields was not an addict and was taking medication as directed, etc., but the possible overdose does not jive with that assumption.  You are right that many parents take these medications and function, taking care of their own children.  The difference is they are the parents of those children; they are a vital part of that child's life.  As long as the parent is carefully following instructions and locking medications away, I can understand not removing a parent from the child's life unless there is some evidence of more serious issues.  Shields was not Bryn's parent.  He didn't have to be a part of her life.  He might have been a wonderful male figure to her and they might have had a beautiful relationship, but he was not her father.  There are so many things that can go wrong quickly with heavy drugs like this that I don't see a reason to tempt fate and allow him to be alone with the child.  If the roles were reversed does anyone believe B would not be screaming from the highest mountain over Jason's negligence??  Jason might be an ass and maybe he brought out the issues in a retaliatory manner, but I would think he was a negligent parent if he didn't question and investigate this situation.  

I don't think anyone is faulting Jason simply for asking about opioid use around his daughter. That would be, of course, a huge and legitimate concern.  I 100% agree Bethenny would say so if she thought Jason had Bryn around drug abusers. No doubt in my mind there. Being a concerned parent is not the problem.

To question Bethenny's parental judgment about it is to assume she herself knew he was an addict. I don't think we even know yet if he was an addict , if he died from a drug overdose, or, if he was abusing his medication, if Bethenny knew he was abusing it.

The thing that upset me personally is that he tossed that bomb mere days after she'd suffered a devastating loss.  I feel like he saw her vulnerable and saw an opportunity. Instead of laying down the sword for a moment, he saw an opportunity to go in for the proverbial kill, now that she's weak.  (Sadly, Dennis is no longer with us, so no emergency intervention or anything like that was or is required. )That kind of behavior makes my blood run cold because it is predatory and calculating and scary AF.  

And btw, if Bethenny did that mere days after one of Jason's parents died, I'd feel the same way about her as I do Jason right now. I just don't think she would go that low. 

[Natalie68]

3 minutes ago, ryebread said:

You should ask!  I taught at the school down the street from my house.  Still live there.  I run into my old students and/or their parents all the time in the neighnorhood..  Grocery stores, waiting rooms, backyard bbqs.  I always tell them the funny memories I have of them. They get a kick out of hearing them and I love telling them. Ask her!!

I think I will.  I am friends with her daughter on FB and I am sure she would pass a message.  Thanks for the encouragement!

[ryebread]

33 minutes ago, film noire said:

But if my ex demanded sole custody -- in the wake of this weird troubling loss for our child? --  I'd play hardball.  Because it's one thing to be able to legally curtail the worst instincts of your ex (on both sides of this marriage);  it's another to have free reign over crucial decisions and parental choices in Bryn's life. 

100%.

[SuprSuprElevated]

5 minutes ago, Jel said:

he tossed that bomb mere days after she'd suffered a devastating loss. 

Though unfortunate timing for her, he wasn't in control of the timeline.  This was a hearing that had been on the schedule for some time.  A hearing that she asked for.

Edited August 17, 2018 by SuprSuprElevated

[Mrs peel]

18 hours ago, Mariareads said:

Jason is garbage. That he would do this now shows he is exactly what many of us thought. A gold digging, controlling, abusive rat. B is no angel but he is using this kid as a pawn and that's so wrong!

Well, had B not sued for sole custody, it’s likely this would never have been brought up.  But now the parties are in court, and the Judge is entitled to hear everything that’s changed.  I don’t think he’s a monster, he’s trying to protect his rights with his daughter.  B has no one to blame but herself.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

5 hours ago, Happy Camper said:

 

I have no problem with Jason raising his concerns. He has every right, just as Bethenny has the right to raise any concerns that she would have. It's called being a protective parent.

 

4 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Though unfortunate timing for her, he wasn't in control of the timeline.  This was a hearing that had been on the schedule for some time.  A hearing that she asked for.

This! I would raise hell if my ex's SO died of an alleged OD. Jason would be negligent if he did not bring up his concerns in the first appearance in court after. 

When is Bethenny going to understand she is repeating the cycle her mother and father started with her....

[Rap541]

Quote

As for the other bold statement: come on. What is Carole supposed to do? Like, this suggestion can’t really be serious. Bethenny is tied up for yearrrrsssss legally with the man who gave Bryn half of her DNA, and you think that Carole should insert herself in that to do what? To say, “Hey, Judge, can I tell you about the friendship I had with Bethenny and how it went south? And because of this, I think I have concerns about Bryn’s welfare.”

I suppose I wonder because some people are insisting that poor Brynn is sharing "scary and true" secrets with the adults in her life. That certainly implies Bryn is sharing secrets about abusive behavior on Bethenny's part - be it emotional, physical or mental.

Maybe I am wrong, if scary secrets shared by a child isn't code for child abuse, I'm open to hearing it. But if Brynn is telling ANY adult in her life a story that makes that adult think Bethenny crossed the line from bad parenting into abuse, then that adult has a moral duty to insert themselves into that child's life if it's that bad. 

Personally, because Jason would leap on it, as would the grand parents, I don't think Brynn goes to them sharing scary and true stories about life with Bethenny that they feel rise higher than a kid complaining. Likewise Carole. But if it ever comes out that Carole, or Jason, or the Hoppys were told something by Brynn that was a tale of abuse and they did nothing... Yeah, they're monsters.

And if Carole's credibility is hurt by the fact that she's been publically butt hurt about her friendship going south, that's sort of her problem.

For the record, I think Brynn's father would LEAP on the idea of Brynn making an accusation so that we've never seen him say a cross word about Bethenny's parenting tells me he's not listening to his daughter's scary true tales of Mommy acting crazy and sitting on his hands because a girl needs a mother no matter how crazy.

[Happy Camper]

3 hours ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

This! I would raise hell if my ex's SO died of an alleged OD. Jason would be negligent if he did not bring up his concerns in the first appearance in court after. 

 

I agree. It's certainly not an issue that should just be ignored. If the situation was reversed, and Jason's on again/off again girlfriend died in a drug related death (doesn't matter if it was prescription) I would not have a problem with Bethenny bringing it up in court.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Happy Camper

[b2H]

On 8/16/2018 at 5:18 PM, Anne Thrax said:

I suppose because of his ability to pay whatever bill they give him, Hoppy can still find attorneys to  bring this petty nonsense before the court.

Family law judges see this all the time, multiple times a day -- one ex-spouse has it in for the other ex-spouse, makes a bunch of muddled allegations and doesn't bring proof of a damn thing, yet expects the judge to find in their favor.

1. Dennis and Bethenny had been broken up at the time of his death, so there's nothing against B that the judge could consider. 

2. Dennis never lived in the home and wasn't married or engaged to Bethenny, so there's nothing against B that the judge can consider. 

3. Bethenny wears a ring that was a gift from Dennis that may or may not be an engagement ring, so there's nothing against B that the judge can consider. 

4. Bethenny was shown on a heavily-edited reality show being drunk and naked, neither of which is illegal and Brynn wasn't there, so there's nothing against B the judge can consider. 

5. Bethenny may have a substance abuse problem, but since he's no expert and there's no proof, there's nothing against B for the judge to consider.

Sounds like a big ol' nothingburger from Jason the only purpose of which was to sling innuendo and conjecture with literally zero proof.  He's flushing tens of thousands down the toilet every time he does this just to be a thorn in her side.  Because I'm sure his attorney advised him that his complaints are weak, utterly lacking proof, and there's very little chance the judge will take any action against Bethenny in terms of the custody issue.  Because the judge sees who the problem is in his courtroom.

The judge will understand immediately that Jason is taking yet another opportunity to try to stick it to Bethenny in order to derail her custody petition.  The judge will deny Jason's latest tempest in a teapot, and it'll show that Jason is the one with bad judgment (or at least worse judgment than Bethenny - when she goes to court against Jason, she has proof and lots of it).

And your item four is what has me most bothered.

B has been shown to be pretty much mentally unstable all season.  To wit, Colombia just showed her to be extremely brittle and unbalanced.  Scripted or no, it was there for all the world to see.  She has been engaged in this battle with her ex for how long now?  More rational thinking should have been NOT to do the show until this was completely resolved.  Just stay off the media and don’t give her ex any remote piece of ammunition against her.

To those who point to the other women’s dependencies,  agree they have issues, but none of their children are eight years old.  Lu’s are older, Dorinda’s are older, et al., they are pretty much adult children.  Brynn is eight.  She hasn’t the coping skills to be in this mess.

I would love to see the judge straighten both of these vipers out, suggesting that one more time in court puts Brynn into foster care until these two grow up to be responsible adults instead of grenade-lobbing toddlers.  They need to stop thinking of themselves and think about her.  They chose each other; Brynn had no choice.  She’s stuck with these monsters.