S02.E08: Variable and Full of Perturbation

[DrSpaceman]

Hang on, how did Rachel know Leekie was dead if the body was still in Donnie's trunk? Did she assume DYAD goons did their job?

 

 

I was wondering the same thing.  She either assumed or she had someone watching him and saw what Donnie did on accident. 

 

I don't trust any of these monitors, really. 

 

Tony is a bit over the top as a character.  And he/she DOES like like Apollo Anton Ohno. 

 

I have been wondering if Kira and Helena both seem to have significant powers at least for their bodies to fix themselves after serious injury, and it appears to help cure others, why doesn't Sarah have those powers? 

 

I don't know that Rachel's freak out literally happened at any time, before or after he dad left.  I thought it was all in her headm imagining what she'd like to do

[CPP83]

One thing I didn't mention about Tony earlier is that I also think in some ways, such as with his physical transition, he is a work in progress. He's pretty much a blank slate, we know some fairly generic facts about him but there's obviously a lot about him which has yet to be explored and revealed.

 

I don't know if they plan to bring him back, or maybe this episode was to test how well he may or may not be received by the audience, but personally I think since this show has been rather ground breaking about a number of socially relevant subjects, keeping Tony around and giving him a well thought out back-story he could be a decent addition to clone club.

 

I still can't help but feel that I'd care about Cosima a lot more if she wasn't tied to Delphine. I don't care about that character, nothing that has happened since she first popped on screen has made her interesting to me and she drags Cosima down with her.

 

It'd be nice if Cosima's parents would show up, I'd like to see the two, supposedly awesome, persons who crafted such a quirky kid. I have an image of a little Cosima being taught the ins and outs of D&D by dad.

[hardy har]

This is the first episode I watched that felt kind of off to me and I think it's because so much time was spent on a brand new character whom it appears we won't be seeing anymore. Or at least for a good long while. Like, this was the 3rd to last episode and it felt like the show kind of hit the brakes on our road trip. To quote Vick the Dick it was a rock in my stream, blocking the flow. I know this show always has us asking a bunch of questions, but it typically does a pretty damn good job of providing the viewers with information too and Tony was on screen an awfully long time only for us to learn that Paul is a "good" guy. Maybe if some of the Tony stuff was intercut with Paul doing . . . whatever it is he's doing it would've worked better for me or something. Also: since when on conspiracy related TV shows does military=good guy? I mean, Tony obviously trusted Sammy (that was his name right?), but I just met Tony and sure as hell don't know Sammy so I'm not fully getting with the Paul is a good guy idea yet. Though, that could be entirely based on the fact that I only really like Paul when he's being shady.

 

Tony's hair was killing me. Dude, I will let you borrow a brush. I didn't mind the facial hair, because I sort of assumed it was a result of transitioning and testosterone injections. I've me a couple trans men and they mentioned growing facial hair was kind of a pain. 

 

Alison and Donnie might be my favorite married couple on TV. I knew he used one of Alison's guns. Oh, Donnie. I loved the off-handed yet reassuring way Alison told him everyone hated her mother. That line was tied for Rachel voicemail to Paul as the funnest line of the episode.

 

I wonder how long Kira is going to sit on that book? We all know she no dummy, so will she tell Sarah right away? Will she wait until she sees Ethan again?

 

The scene with Cosima and Scott was rather sweet. And she was so nervous about meeting Ethan! Aww. I figured she was gonna be in the shit by the end of the episode thought because she was rather happy for most of it and I kept thinking "Well, this can't last long" and then she collapsed.

Edited June 8, 2014 by hardy har

[NCChic]

Did I miss what happened to Cal? One minute he was whisking Kira odd from their previous hiding place and the next Felix was taking Kira to Sarah.

[hardy har]

At the end of the last episode Sarah took Kira from Cal. It was after she got the call from Cosima and Kira yanked out her own tooth like a boss. There was that whole scene of Cal saying goodbye to her and making sure Kira remembered a number to call in case they got in trouble. Which, I'm guessing will come into play by the finale.

[NCChic]

Dang, Donnie shooting Dr. Leekie totally made me forget that entire scene.

Edited June 8, 2014 by NCChic

[sjohnson]

Also one who didn't buy Tony as a man, just Tatiana Maslany with a weird beard. Tony/Felix quasi-incest wasn't terribly funny but I didn't think it was icky etiher.  Alison and Donnie bonding over murder is over the top, the tonal shifts are making the whole show vibrate. If the aircraft shakes hard enough the wings fall off. 

 

PS Duncan is still loopy and the punch line is when they find out his confidence is just more of his dementia. Or it should be. I think it takes years of offness to make a house the way his was. Vick should have been questioned by Angie by now. There's an excellent chance that Alison was seen in Aynsley's house when she shouldn't have been, once Angie knows to go around asking.

Edited June 8, 2014 by sjohnson

[Athena]

The Tony thing didn't work for me either. For me, the biggest issue was the hair and I was so creeped out by the Felix kiss. I am very glad they have scuttled him off for now and that he at least moves the Paul storyline forward.

 

What worked for me was Cosima. I have also felt less than interested in her from the get-go. She's been very isolated, but introducing Scott into her storyline has helped a lot. I think they have great chemistry as friends. We see a side of Cosima pre-Clone reveal. I also don't really buy the Cophine ILY if only because their relationship has always been so shady.

 

Rachel's phone manner is amusing. "You know I worry." Really? Does Paul know you worry or feel any emotions? It was weird as if she's trying to be like a normal girlfriend or something when clearly he's working for her under duress. I can believe she's become attached to BDP or part of him any way. As for her freakout, I believe it because she is a control freak and it is not the first time she has talked about motherhood. I really liked TM's rage in that scene. She gives good angry face.

 

The whole barren reveal is interesting in light of both the disease and the fact Sarah is a twin. She's an anomaly in two ways really (three if you count she went unmonitored).

[bluebonnet]

I agree that Tony didn't come off so well.  The costuming was just terrible.  

 

What I did like is that Felix continues to have completely different chemistry with all of the clones.  Jordan Garvaris is the one who sold the new clone thing.  Without him, I would have been firmly against Tony as an addition to the cast because there was just something missing to indicate that it was an entirely new person.  Tatiana Maslany has excellent chemistry with herself, but shit, Jordan Garvaris knows it out of the park with how he interacts with each clone.  

 

I hope we get a chance to see Rachel's reaction to Tony.  She'll be all "so, you're a man and you're gay.  Give me a moment while my brain explodes."

[Pagali]

I think it's very interesting that they brought in a transgender character-- there's so much misinformation and confusion out there on the subject. But I agree the hair was all wrong. Tatiana's basic facial bone structure is just too feminine. On a man with a more masculine face, it works, but not on her.  Example:

 

 

A simple Willie Nelson style ponytail would've been a better choice.

Edited July 8, 2014 by maraleia
FYI-changed term to transgender per standards of correct terminology

[Loandbehold]

I was also put off by Tony in the first scene. The hair and what sounded like a little of Sarah's accent and tonal mannerisms coming through. But, as I didn't know the show was going with a transgender clone, once I saw that was where they were going, I was able to forget it was TM playing a man. I agree with SystemRemote that JG's acting really brought that out. The kissing scene did squick me out, although not so bad enough that I had to look through splayed fingers. 

 

Donnie and Alison were hysterical. Yes, they're over-the-top, but at least we are seeing Alison beginning to truly deal with Ainsley's death while retaining her Alison-ness. (Alisonosity?)

 

As for Rachel's freak-out, I go back and forth. I still think it happened after she learned that the clones were designed to be barren, but, I could also see it as her visualizing freaking out because she is so emotionally controlled. She imagines herself doing something that she would never allow herself to actually do. 

Edited July 8, 2014 by maraleia
FYI-changed term to transgender per standards of correct terminology

[possibilities]

I suppose Sarah is wise to not want to bring Kira to Dyad for the bone marrow donation, but the two af them and Cosima could waltz into the cancer treatment center of their choice, bring Scott and whatever medical records they want, and ask them to do it. They could possibly even get away with saying Cosima and Sarah were twins (not clones), but they could also blow the whole Dyad cover and lay it all on the table. I know the conspiracy is part of the show, but I almost think the illness is their salvation because there are lots of researchers who would be super-interested. But yes, i know, maybe that's too risky, too many wildcards and unknowns, might take too long to get the new docs up to speed, etc. I just have a hard time with the hugeness of the institution being so easy to hide, and with the way the clones are acting like it's a secret for them to keep rather than for them to blow up. I guess the conspiracy elements are integral to the show, but I still have not come around to finding the secrecy to be all that interesting.

[RapBert]

Well, that was... different.

 

I don't know, something just felt off about the whole Tony thing. It just feels odd that they introduce this clone just to get some more info out about Paul. Alison and Donnie were great, though. And they better not kill off Cosima.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

How did Tony affect Jeff Alexander's rankings for the clones?

[Wilowy]

I was kind of hoping that Cosima would be cured by the combination of helium and marijuana, but, no.

Found it amusing that Rachel uses an iPhone like a Nazi smokes a cigarette - all backwards and affected.

I have to say, one of my favourite Maslanyisms is the thing she does when one of her characters is speaking to someone, then stops, then says their name, as its own sentence. Like, if Sarah said something like, "We're going to find you a cure. Cosima." Or if Alison said, "I know what you've been up to. Donnie." Or Rachel, "It's been a pleasure knowing you. Aldous." You know, like that.

 

Nice.

[meatball77]

I thought the first scene was a flashback to Sarah's crime days and the beard was a disguise, so that's how well the new clone worked out for me.  Everyone else has been very believable, this one not so much.  I did think the acting and dialog was fine it was just more of what I'm used to seeing when they have actors playing different versions of themseves (fringe or VD) rather than the brilliance we generally get.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

I found Maslany's obvious efforts to maintain a baritone register extremely distracting. It's the first time I've thought her acting was effortful at all, and I'm not sure the choice was even necessary.

[Wilowy]

Me too. The sketchy beard I could deal with due to his transition state, but the way TMas obviously was struggling with that low register, combined with the Sarah hair and bad wardrobe really took me out of it. I like Tony, and pretty sure we'll see him next season, but right now he seems like an awkward device.

 

And I missed Helena again. Donnie and Alison should consult with her on how to dispose of the weapon, and also leaking Leekie there. 

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Definately not a fan of Tony. I agree with others who said it was too much like a dog and pony show, 'Oooh, ahhh, look what Tatiana can do now!"

I suspect it's more like the writers getting together and saying "what curve can we throw at her this week". Although, if Tatiana were to say "I'd like to try my hand at..." they'd see what they could work in. I think the effect was spoiled by viewers knowing what's really going on. Coincidentally, on the same night, GSN reran an episode of Dog Eat Dog where a contestant was asked to pick out a woman disguised as a man from a lineup of men. It was difficult and he got it wrong, but after you knew which one was her, you could totally see that she was female because knowing that let you see the clues with certainty.

 

 

He kept them on floppy disks in a shoebox, so they likely are ruined by now, and never bothered to update them to a new technology?

He probably didn't give it any thought because of the written notes, but DYAD shouldn't have any trouble reading them. Even if an old style disk drive can't make sense of them, the company has the scientific equipment to look at the residual magnetic fields and not only read what what's on them, but see several prior versions of what was written.

[Wonderflonium]

Hang on, how did Rachel know Leekie was dead if the body was still in Donnie's trunk? Did she assume DYAD goons did their job?

I don't think Rachel does know that he is really dead. She didn't have him killed on the assumption that he would leave forever and she would allow everyone else to think he was dead. The "heart attack" is the lie she made up to explain his sudden disappearance, but I believe she still thinks he's out there somewhere in hiding.

Tony didn't really work for me either. In concept, a fine if unnecessary stunt so late in the season, but in actually he didn't come off like a real person, as the other clones always have. I could have even overlooked the voice struggle but the hair people really were off their game this time. I read that they were going for mullet, but on camera it read as messy Sarah hair. Especially since he was placed in "Sarah's" storyline, filmed in Sarah's tone and color palate, it made it harder to differentiate him as a character.

Scott's "it's an honor..." was so sweet, he was so sincere.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Wonderflonium

[DioxinBlues]

I would've had less of an issue with Tony if it wasn't for the Felix/Tony kiss. I couldn't watch it AT ALL. Too Tatiana/Jordan for me and I feel like those two are sister and brother, regardless of reality. Jerked me out of the whole story as did Tony's checking out of Sarah. I mean, I.......I don't know. If he comes back, I hope they find a different way to integrate him into the Clone Club and get him in a scene with Alison somehow. The one interesting element Tony did bring was a reintroduction of the notion that someone is killing clones and/or monitors. Who are these "suits" who shot Sammy? Is this a new group? A government group? Another corporation? I think a threat is very much needed now that Helena has become domesticated. We need the mystery of someone trying to kill the clones; I miss that from Season One. 

 

But, taking out the Tony part, I thought the rest of the stories were interesting and I thought we got some good progress on Cosima and Delphine finally, and also I now can't help rooting for Alison and Donnie to work it out, those crazy kids. Shooting Leekie was the best thing that could've happened to their marriage. Kira and Ethan were a strangely sweet granddaughter/grandpa duo, despite him referring to her as a "prize" at one point. I also loved how excited Cosima was to meet Ethan there at the end. That's the Cosima I love best. If she lives, I hope they move her out of the lab more next season because locking her in "clone jail" has hampered her greatly.

 

And are we for sure getting a Season Three? I can't imagine we wouldn't but I have yet to hear even a peep from the business end of the equation. 

 

 

[possibilities]

I didn't have as much of an issue with Tony as others seem to. Depending on what stage of transition he's in, his appearance might change a little or a lot more before he settles into the new look. I knew someone who looked very different in the early stages compared to what he looked like after taking T for a longer period of time. So this is also an option for bringing Tony back looking more butch if that's what they want. But not all trans people are extreme end of spectrum stereotypes. Many people are comfortable somewhere middling on the visual spectrum. I don't really need Tony to be one or the other. Being in between is an even less media-represented reality than being stereotypically one or the other. I kind of liked the ambiguity.

[jaybear1701]

Not sure I'm digging the whole "criminal about to die whose partner just happens to be a clone *also* knows Paul."  C'mon, show....you're better than that sloppy kind of plot device.

I think that sums up my issue with the Tony storyline - why introduce a character this late in the game just to further a plot point for Paul that could have been shown by actually, I don't know, utilizing Paul? I'm not a huge Paul fan, but I like him. Where the heck has Dylan Bruce been? I feel like he's been missing for half the season.

Not to mention the fact that it just seems bizarre to spend so much time with Tony when we haven't seen Helena for two episodes.

 

Really enjoyed Cosima's story, glad to see some movement, some fun, and I liked their whole "I love you" scene, particularly that Delphine has to love all of them (because she's been quite shortsighted, though it's understandable).

It was great to see happy Cosima (and Delphine) back again - even if briefly. Bonus points that they integrated Cosima's "promise" from last season. And, as much as I enjoy them together, I especially loved that Delphine and Cosima got to spend some time apart and actually interact with other characters. I wish it happened sooner.

My favorite part, though, was Cosima threatening to destroy Delphine's career if she betrayed the clones again in the same breath as "I love you too," and Delphine's subsequent laugh. At that moment, I think her career is the last thing on her mind. All of Delphine's (arguably) poor decisions up to this point have stemmed from a desire to help/protect Cosima at the expense of everything else (Cosima's agency, the safety of the other clones, etc.). So yeah I think that will remain true even with Delphine vow to "love" all of the clones and

Rachel's upcoming offer for her to become DYAD's interim director.

It would not surprise me in the slightest if she sacrificed Cosima's love and their relationship, her career, heck even her life (if DYAD believes she's double-crossed them), if it means Cosima will survive.

[CatMack]

For anyone who things having a trans clone was just a stunt, geekdawson over on tumblr is going an excellent job talking about just how important ftm trans representation is to that community, how rare it is and how much it means when someone does it.  It's not a stunt to accurately reflect the world around you.  That world includes trans people, and their stories should not be limited to certain genres or types of shows.  While I can agree that the timing of adding any new clone maybe could have been better (I don't have huge problems with it, but the overall pacing of this season has been a little off compared to season 1), there is nothing about Tony that is more of a stunt than adding any other female clone would have been. 

[Riful]

Thank you for that link CatMack, there are quite some interesting point of views in those posts. I think that thewetcloud made some really excellent points about how Tony fits into several of the main themes that Orphan Black centers around.

 

"For myself anyway, I think I can justify Tony’s introduction in this way: As calmorrison says, this was—IS— a woman’s story. But it’s also a story of individuality and assertion of existence, assertion of self-ownership—which the female gender is generally intrinsically forced to confront at some point, living and working in patriarchal societies. Assertion of individuality and ownership is the second important theme that Orphan Black underlines and continually pokes sticks at; how people marginalize and label others among them based on gender, sexuality, etc, and how character and personality transcend those labels.

 

Orphan Black preaches that labels mean jack shit. Once we are born, once we have been reared and are free to act independently as adults in the world, we are the masters of our own existences. But there is always someone who wants to control you, to say “no you can’t because [insert social stigma/label/ignorant preconception]”. I think that Tony continues to be representative of that theme, and his relevance is in fact compounded because his very nature as a transman. Transpeople are continually assaulted with the idea that they aren’t real, that their identities are contrived, cobbled together and don’t matter. Orphan Black’s trademark is depicting the human being sans the label.Tony is valid as a man, and independent and has transcended his makers, just as Sarah and her sisters have. But, like his sisters, Tony by his very biology, is and forever will be haunted by the persistent need of corporate society to reduce his individuality and humanity to a number; a statistic; a saleable commodity. In this, Tony as a character — as a man — succeeds and the show’s theme remains constant."

 

While I didn't really give Tony much thought since he was catered off so fast, reading these opinions are giving me a better appreciation of what he can bring to the table in the future, besides giving some much needed representation on a show that wants to do right by trans* people. I did not mind his look so much, as I've known a few trans men in my life. A beard growing in a proper manner was a bit of a unicorn for several I knew, and the overall physical look can change so much while transitioning. It could be that they will make TMas make-up look different next time in a way where they add more touches so he looks further into his transition. Some different shading of the jaw to make it broader, fuller grown beard etc.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Riful

[AlliMo]

Seeing Duncan's interactions with Kira, and thinking on how he specified that they had wanted to create a little girl, the more I start to suspect that the "original" was Duncan and his wife's deceased child.

[possibilities]

RE: someone is still killing clones and monitors, I had not even thought of that. I thought Helena was the trained assassin for Tomas, and now that Tomas is dead and Helena has gotten out of that mentality, that particular threat was no longer active. I assumed the hit on Tony's monitor was related to some illegal activity they had been part of, a revenge killing or something like that. But it is entirely possible that Tomas had allies and there are other rogue Prolethians still on the assassination campaign. It's rather far fetched to think Tomas was alone in his beliefs and managed to keep helena as his personal possession for so long as a solo. It's a bit alarming that Felix and Sarah didn't mention this particular issue to Tony, at least as far as we saw.

 

Also, if Duncan "salted the petri dishes"-- how the hell many clones are there, anyway? Did he sabotage the project after a dozen? A hundred? Shouldn't he know? Shouldn't anyone ask him?

Edited June 8, 2014 by possibilities

[crabbypants]

Rachel told Delphine that Leekie died on the way to Langley. We know that's a lie but I'm wondering why she chose that city. Could Dyad be doing business with the CIA?

[shapeshifter]

When Duncan asks Rachel if she remembers him reading her the book, is that a clue to her about where the hard copy of his formulas are?

On the Inside Look segment, Tatiana said that they tried several different looks for Tony, arriving on this one as the best, but that gives me pause.  

 

For starters, I know they had issues with trying to cram her hair into a wig with a guy's hair, but if that was a mullet, my ass is a turnip.  I could see a single, low braid à la Willie Nelson along with the facial hair much more than the rats-nest of hair around the face pulled back and secured by a rubber band, but what they decided on?  Came of as lazy and/or not well thought-out

I thought: With a tight low pony tail tucked into a high collar in the back, and a bit of bangs like Felix's in the front, it would've worked. But then I read here:

How did Tony affect Jeff Alexander's rankings for the clones?

...

Nobody impersonates anybody, but presumably we’re setting up for Sarah to play Tony at some point, or vice versa. That’s really the only explanation for Tony’s hair...

and figured that would be a reasonable excuse.

[meatball77]

What is Helena going to think of Tony?

[Athena]

 

Also, if Duncan "salted the petri dishes"-- how the hell many clones are there, anyway? Did he sabotage the project after a dozen? A hundred? Shouldn't he know? Shouldn't anyone ask him?

 

When Sarah meets Duncan, one of the first things he says is, "I don't know how many there are of you. There was more than one insemination team." I think he and Susan started the project and Dyad rolled it out in North America and other countries so he probably doesn't know how far it went. He just has the original map as it were.

[bluebonnet]

I didn't have as much of an issue with Tony as others seem to. Depending on what stage of transition he's in, his appearance might change a little or a lot more before he settles into the new look. I knew someone who looked very different in the early stages compared to what he looked like after taking T for a longer period of time. So this is also an option for bringing Tony back looking more butch if that's what they want. But not all trans people are extreme end of spectrum stereotypes. Many people are comfortable somewhere middling on the visual spectrum. I don't really need Tony to be one or the other. Being in between is an even less media-represented reality than being stereotypically one or the other. I kind of liked the ambiguity.

For me, I didn't need Tony to be uber masculine for it to work.  I just needed him to be an individual.  He very much wasn't.  It just looked like Sarah with a beard.  The mannerisms, the attitude, it was all Sarah.  The wardrobe department really sucked because it became impossible to pretend that the beard was real, much like we are able to easily pretend that Rachel's hair isn't a wig.  But it was everything else, too.  He moved just like Sarah.  The only thing, for me, that differentiated him from the other clones or from Sarah specifically is that JG has different chemistry and reactions with each clone.  This would have been nothing but Sarah with a beard if JG hadn't been in the scene.  

[toomuchtv47]

After watching the show 3 times now and reading a lot of the comments that have been posted on various sites, I have a better appreciation and understanding of the Tony storyline.  This isn't something I know very much about.  While it wasn't my favorite of the season, I don't think it was anywhere near bad.

 

Something I noticed on rewatch was during Tony's message to Beth, he said something about Paul being a ghost.  In the next scene, Rachel is on the phone finding out that there are no records of where Paul has gone.  No flights, passport checks, credit cards etc... Paul has become a ghost in a sense.  I wonder if Rachel will try to dig deeper to find out about him?

[hardy har]

I still need to rewatch, but the more I think Tony the more I realize that 99% of what bothered me was the timing of his introduction. I'm still a little flabbergasted they introduced him during ep 8 because there's so much stuff going on. I will say that I thought TM got better as Tony as the episode went along. I did find it rather adorable that Sarah, Felix and Art seemed to be protecting him by getting him the fuck outta there. I like the idea of the people centrally involved in Team Clone trying to keep other clones out of their giant mess. I do hope we at least touch base with him in some way in the future. Hopefully, they can figure out a way to tame TM's hair so Tony can get a better haircut :)

 

I fully agree with everyone singing the praises of Jordan Gavaris. He really did/does help sell the clones and there's never been a second where I though he was mixing his clone chemistry. I actually think EB does a pretty good job too. Granted she only had 2 scenes with Sarah and 2  with Rachel, her vibe with them is totally different than when she's with Cosima. 

 

Anyway, aside from my frustration with the timing of the Tony intro, I actually really loved everything else about the episode.

 

ETA: You guys? I just thought of something. Leekie told Paul his "hobby" was trying to create an artificial womb. In light of the "designed to  be barren" reveal . . . . that can't be a coincidence, right?

Edited June 9, 2014 by hardy har

[possibilities]

Leekie told Paul his "hobby" was trying to create an artificial womb. In light of the "designed to  be barren" reveal . . . . that can't be a coincidence, right?

It would certainly get rid of the "middle man" problem they had with Sarah/Helena, i.e. the surrogate mother deciding the program is wrong. It puts really everything in the hands of the lab. And if they engineer all their "product" to be infertile, the process can be 100% taken over and controlled-- not only the babymaking, but also the decision about who gets to have one once it's made.

Edited June 9, 2014 by possibilities

[babyPhat279]

I'm still enjoying this show, but I feel like there is a ton of stuff "up in the air" and no way to resolve things satisfactorily. I guess I just don't want to end up with another LOST situation, but what do we have here with open plots:

 

- Helena and the Prolethians

- Siobhan and whatever her story is (I'm betting she will turn out to have been the egg donor - i.e., the biological mother of all the clones)

- Kira's super powers

- Paul being a "ghost"

- Kira's dad possibly being watched

- Alison and Donnie's adventures

- Art's investigation of Maggie Chen

- Angie's investigation of everything

- Vic trying to clean up his act

- Cosima being sick

- Poor Felix getting pushed back and forth by everyone

- Tony maybe coming back?

- Rachel having an emotional breakdown/Duncan possibly being a bad guy

 

Also, can someone explain this timeline to me? I feel like very little time should have passed since the show started (a few weeks), but then odd things happen or are said that don't make sense. Did Delphine say last week that Kira lost her tooth in the accident "last year?" Didn't that JUST happen? And Scott has been at Dyad long enough to have a board game night going on? Did Cosima drop out of her PhD program in Minnesota, or did she get her PhD off screen? How is Alison's stint in rehab complete? Maybe I'm taking this too seriously.

[theFel]

I didn't care for Tony either. To me, the best part of TM's acting isn't that she's all these different people, it is watching her being one clone acting like another. Sarah being Alison or Alison being Sarah you can totally SEE the one clone being the other - exaggerating mannerisms but still having the base being the other clone . With Tony all I saw was Sarah acting like a man. The disconnected opening scene didn't help either. I think it might have been better to just open with Art receiving a phone call and then the surprise of introducing Tony to Felix. 

[beeble]

I say have Tony spend a few hours with Alison and all of our hair complaints will be gone. Of course, he'll be wearing a polo shirt but the trade off might be worth it.

 

What exactly did Cosima and Delphine get "wasted" on, helium? That scene with the groovy-cam reminded me of the Simpsons when Marge went into an LSD-like trip simply by seeing Joe Namath's shaggy hair.  

 

I like the Donnie-Alison bond strengthening. For the first time I saw why she got so cranky with him.

 

We heard a little bit about Alison's mother (nobody likes her) and Tony's mother (something went wrong with the IVF). I really want to know more about the people who raised our clones.

 

Having a trans-clone didn't bother me. I liked the idea that our DNA isn't our destiny, but that others get completely caught up in the idea that it is.  What I didn't like about Tony was that he was an ass doing all sorts of "freakin' this/that."  

 

I'm very pleased that the show passed a bunch of Bechdel tests this week BUT it wouldn't have hurt anyone to have Cal on for a bit. Or even Paul (he doesn't need to say anything). 

[LovinLife]

First time posting here and I'll start by saying I love this show and recommend it to everyone but unfortunately....Tony felt very indulgent to me at this stage in the series with only a few episodes left. If they wanted to go in that direction he would have been a better reveal at the end of episode 10 and developed in the next season. He did not work and wasn't needed to deliver the message about Paul, that could have been handled without dedicating much of the episode to get to that end. With that said it is the creators and writers show so they can attempt to explore whatever they want and they usually do a brilliant job at delivering a message. It's the first time I ever felt like a clone was used as a gimmick in an episode.  I still think this is the best stuff on TV right now. I thought the dialogue between Felix and Tony seemed very honest and real and Tatiana was excellent in the role of a transgender even if the makeup didn't lend a hand this time. Perhaps my reaction to Tony in simply based on the fact that there are so many other characters with great stories going on, that I don't like Tatiana sharing screen time with a newbie Tatiana. How weird is that statement?? It's funny when we go two episodes without seeing one of the resident clones you really start to miss that part of Tatiana's repertoire.She embodies them all so well and we've come to know them now as we head to the end of season two. We need some Helena please.  Tony is needed when the other story lines are worn out.  For now we need to see some direction with Cosima and Sarah and Cal and Kira and Rachel and Duncan and Paul and Mrs. S.  There's a lot to deal with already this season.  Again I applaud the attempt at inclusion of an overlooked group of people but for the sake of the quality of the story it just didn't seem like the right time for a new clone. 

[millahnna]

What I did like is that Felix continues to have completely different chemistry with all of the clones.  Jordan Garvaris is the one who sold the new clone thing. 

 

I hope we get a chance to see Rachel's reaction to Tony.  She'll be all "so, you're a man and you're gay.  Give me a moment while my brain explodes."

 

Regarding Jordan, I cannot offer enough praise for the subtle shit going on with his face during the 5 minutes surrounding the kiss. He was so completely aware of just how screwed up that whole scenario was and I loved him for it.  He makes this series of rapid facial expressions right after Tony walks away that's so awesome I can't stand it.  He looks, repulsed, curious, flabberghasted, relieved, all in the space of about a second and a half. 

 

Regarding Rachel, I feel like she'd try to make out with him and I can't figure why that's where my brain is going. 

 

I didn't have as much of an issue with Tony as others seem to. Depending on what stage of transition he's in, his appearance might change a little or a lot more before he settles into the new look. I knew someone who looked very different in the early stages compared to what he looked like after taking T for a longer period of time.

 

Totally with you on that.  While I did think the costuming wasn't great (in particular, the fact that the hair was an obvious hair style and not the faux mullet they were trying for) the fact that there were still some obvious signs of his previous femininity totally worked for me because of real life people I know.  I think the trans medical stuff for MTF (male to female) must be a lot easier than the stuff for FTM based on how cis-gendered people perceive those in transition.  I know more trans women than men but the few trans men I do know are easily identifiable as being formerly women (whereas the trans women seem to range the whole spectrum), and it's not uncommon for people to just think they are tom boys or a bit butch or whatever (which goes to the societal "girls can be boyish but boys can't be girly" thing we have going on for some stupid reason).   I imagine it must be frustrating as hell.  But yeah, even though Tony specified figuring some of his shit out years ago, I have no problem with thinking of him, as portrayed by Tatiana, as being a trans man that many would mistakenly think is a hairy girl.  Sadly, it's a fairly common reaction in my anecdotal experience.

Edited June 10, 2014 by millahnna

[kat165]

When the episode opened with the 2 criminals on the run I didn't know what was going on. I was quite surprised when one of them was revealed to be another clone. I couldn't figure out the deal with this clone then. I thought maybe she was a butch Lesbian from Chicago/mid west somewhere.  As the episode went on though I remained confused but realized my gender mistake. I didn't notice any "package." When Chaz Bono was being interviewed he indicated that the surgery for that still isn't a good option so I didn't even bother to look for this.

 

I'm willing to go where they take me, this show is that good, so I wasn't too concerned about whether Tony was believable or not. I thought they did spend too much time with him. And during that Felix kiss all I could think of is, I bet Jordan is loving this because he really raves about TM, this must be a dream come true. So, with that alone, maybe I wasn't really buying this clone if my mind was more on the actors themselves than the part they were playing.

 

I expect more from this show than to introduce Tony just to give us the info about Paul being a ghost. Too much time was spent with Tony for that to be his only purpose. I did think it was surprising, but cool that they introduced another clone this late in the season. Maybe we've become too complacent with the clones we already have & tossing another one into the mix makes you wonder how many others are out there, who are they & will we get to meet them and when. Shakes things up a bit.

 

I completely bought the outfit (but yeah, not the hair) Tony had on. I know too many people who dress like that.

[CleoCaesar]

Adding on to the chorus of non-fans of Tony. It just looked like Tatiana Maslany with facial hair and took me out of each scene. If they had switched the mullet for a short wig and committed more to the beard it would have been less distracting. I didn't find Tony interesting, which is a first for the clones. I kind of hope we won't see him again.

 

Oh and I didn't see the previews, but they better not kill Cosima.

[Zuleikha]

I have been wondering if Kira and Helena both seem to have significant powers at least for their bodies to fix themselves after serious injury,

 

I don't think Helena has any healing ability. The significance of her being a mirror twin is that her injuries were far less severe than they looked. Both rebar and gunshot were severe injuries, and we saw that she bled a lot and required a lot of healing time and treatment, but no major organs were damaged.

 

I had the same problem with Tony's hair taking me out of the story that it seemed like everyone else did, but other than that, I thought his looked worked for his character. I don't think his hair would have bothered me if it wasn't so similar to Sarah's. It does seem strange that wardrobe can get TM's hair wrangled for Rachel's wig, but couldn't get something shorter or more distinctive for Tony. I was quite impressed with TM's low pitching of her voice and her masculine body language. I didn't hear the struggle that others have mentioned.

 

The one thing that I found problematic--if understandable--is that my understanding is testosterone actually masculinizes people's features. TM has fairly delicate features, so I was missing that difference in Tony. I know there are theater tricks with contouring that can help, but I don't know how well that type of makeup stands up to TV needs. I'm assuming Tony will be recurring--he's got a clone phone after all--and I don't know how makeup and wardrobe is going to handle not being able to change Tony's face to reflect his use of testosterone.

 

I do agree that his message from Sammy was pretty weak for the length of time spent on the character. I don't mind it being about Paul, but I wish the show had spent less time on Tony/Felix testing each other and more on Tony/Clone Club info dumping. Tony couldn't logically tell us anything directly about Paul, but he could tell us a lot about Sammy, who apparently was from the same background as Paul. The whole intro could have been cut in favor of a teaser that ended with Felix opening the door to see Art and Tony. 

 

I liked the Delphine/Cosima scene, but in keeping with my general complaint about illogical secret keeping, I felt like the j'taime scene should have been led into by or followed by a scene in which Cosima got clarity on what exactly Monitors monitor. Because we've got four examples of very different kinds of monitors/monitor relationships, and I'm just not clear on how any of them produce useful information for Dyad.

[Kaboom 2.0]

Was Dylan Bruce unavailable due to other commitments re: Paul's recent absences on the show? That's the only thing I can think of as to why he was referred to by other characters but not seen. And JG continues to slay with his chemistry with, well, everyone Fee encounters. His reactions to the Tony flirations and kiss were gold.

 

I don't mind the addition and swift departure of Tony, we're introduced to yet another clone (and ITA with so many of ya'll opinions about him already posted) and with his departure we may get to see him again in the future. And I wasn't as put out as some others re: Tony's appearance or TM's performance as Tony. To me Tony is Tony, a new character, trying to figure out wth is happening/has happened with and by these strangers he had no clue existed until Sammy's dying professions and Art reaching out to him...and props to Art for keeping Beth's cell phone active!

 

As much as I enjoyed Rachel's scenes with Ethan and Cosima getting her geek on with the guys I think I loved Donnie and Alison's most. These two screwed up people are made for each other and I love it. Of course Alison would bitchily criticize Donnie's failure in correctly wrapping up a corpse, AND leaving it in the trunk of your car, AND using one of her guns in the first place. Donnie is SUCH an amateur.

 

ETA Omg how could I have forgotten Scott! I loved his scene with Cosima when she told him she was the test subject. OB has taught me to be naturally suspicious of pretty much anyone now so I was suspicious of him when he first appeared. I hope I'm not wrong but I feel like he IS one of the good guys, someone who is not a monitor, someone not working for a secret someone else, that he's someone who is actually one of the few good guys, that likes Cosima as a person, what wants to help her. Here's to hoping...

 

At first I raised my eyebrows at an adult reading The Island of Dr Moreau to a child but once we were shown why and why he gave the book to Kira I just shook my head and smiled. Sneaky Dr. Ethan.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Kaboom 2.0

[DrSpaceman]

It was great to see happy Cosima (and Delphine) back again - even if briefly. Bonus points that they integrated Cosima's "promise" from last season. And, as much as I enjoy them together, I especially loved that Delphine and Cosima got to spend some time apart and actually interact with other characters. I wish it happened sooner

 

 

 

 I feel just the oppsoite.  I can't stand them together for many reasons, so any moment like that with the two of them just makes me want to hurl.  They act like two immature love struck teens emotionally and it turns me off. 

He probably didn't give it any thought because of the written notes, but DYAD shouldn't have any trouble reading them. Even if an old style disk drive can't make sense of them, the company has the scientific equipment to look at the residual magnetic fields and not only read what what's on them, but see several prior versions of what was written

 

 

 

Well my main point was he assumes the data won't be lost or the discs corrupted over time, sitting unprotected in a messy shoe box for two decades, even if they do have a way to read them.  Based on my CD and DVD collection, I think thats a poor assumption. 

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Well my main point was he assumes the data won't be lost or the discs corrupted over time, sitting unprotected in a messy shoe box for two decades, even if they do have a way to read them.

From his POV, there's nothing critical on them. He knows what they did.

 

 

Why little girls and why unable to have children?

DYAD doesn't want their proprietary genetic material propagated outside their control. It's easier to do that by making the clones female, and that also makes it easier to get exactly the "product" they want. Once they have created an X chromosome with the right genes, they can just use a copy to build the zygote instead of having to create a Y version. They couldn't use just any old Y chromosome if they want the clone to come out right.

[DrSpaceman]

From his POV, there's nothing critical on them. He knows what they did.

 

 

 

Then why did he keep them, why were they searching for them and why are they even trying to recover the information from the floppy disks ?  Why doesn't he just tell them what is on there now that he is at DYAD? 

 

The information either is or isn't important........if its not then they wasted time looking for it and made a big deal in the show over little in finding it.  If it is important then its a poor way to store the critical information about the project long term

[JodhaBai]

This show has become a parody of itself

[Humbugged]

On the Inside Look segment, Tatiana said that they tried several different looks for Tony, arriving on this one as the best, but that gives me pause.  

 

For starters, I know they had issues with trying to cram her hair into a wig with a guy's hair, but if that was a mullet, my ass is a turnip.  I could see a single, low braid à la Willie Nelson along with the facial hair much more than the rats-nest of hair around the face pulled back and secured by a rubber band, but what they decided on?  Came of as lazy and/or not well thought-out.

 

Also, I do makeup for a living, and Tony's eyebrows were way too sculpted IMO -- it looked like all the artist did was use a crappy quality brow pencil to darken them rather than perhaps changing their shape or, more realistically, giving them no shape at all and more of an au naturel look.

 

Between the above and the wardrobe, which looked like he was cracked out of an ice block in Seattle circa 1992, Tony's overall look IMO both screamed of trying too hard and half-assing it, if that makes sense, and Tatiana ending up looking like someone dressing up as a guy rather than someone who is transgender and/or transexual.  Hell, Roseanne Barr's makeup and wardrobe did a better job in the Halloween episode when she masqueraded as a guy at The Lobo than they did in tonight's episode

 

 

ITA -- As wonderful an actress as Tatiana is, something about her portrayal of this clone seemed "off."  

 

In addition to the hair/makeup/wardrobe issues above, what was up with Tony's accent?  For someone who's supposed to be a low-level criminal from the US (was it Cincinnati?  That's the city of origin I thought Tony referenced, but that's not a two-day trip by car to Toronto, is it? Or is that time in the car supposed to feed into the "Generica" idea?), there were several times that his accent seemed to slip into one more British and very similar to Sarah's.  It was enough that I noticed it on the first watch, and during the second airing, I paid particular attention to it in the scenes with him, Felix, and Art.

I think that Tony was supposed to be into Metal hence the grunge and the long hair .

 

The band that he was listening to is a Canadian Metal band called Monster Truck

 

 

More obscure Canadiana - after the strange musical got used.

[DrSpaceman]

 

I don't think Helena has any healing ability. The significance of her being a mirror twin is that her injuries were far less severe than they looked. Both rebar and gunshot were severe injuries, and we saw that she bled a lot and required a lot of healing time and treatment, but no major organs were damaged.

 

 

Really????

 

If this is true it baffles me.  You don't normally get shot and then walk out of the hospital within, what a day? major organs damaged or not, Sarah was convinced she was dead to the point of just leaving her there and not trying to do anything further.  My impression was she recovered pretty quickly from those injuries.  It normally takes weeks to month to recover from any gunshot wound, no matter how minor, she was over it in a few days.