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S01.E08: The Heap

ElectricBoogaloo

By ElectricBoogaloo
in Fargo

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molshoop

molshoop

The heap

The fallacy can be described in the form of a conversation:

    Q: Does one grain of wheat form a heap?
    A: No.
    Q: If we add one, do two grains of wheat form a heap?
    A: No.
    Q: If we add one, do three grains of wheat form a heap?
    A: No.
    ...
    Q: If we add one, do one hundred grains of wheat form a heap?
    A: No.
    Q: Therefore, no matter how many grains of wheat we add, we will never have a heap. Therefore, heaps don't exist!

 

So now we have The Fallacy of the Files

leighdear

leighdear

I really loved it.  A 1 year jump ahead is perfect, as it shows growth in some relationships, but the characters are still recognizable and relatable. 

 

I want Lester to get away with everything, but I also want Molly to nail down the case.  I don't know how that can happen, but this show has pulled off some pretty cool stuff, so it could happen.

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Yeldarbe

Yeldarbe

Why did Malvo leave the hitman alive in the hospital? Why the key to the handcuffs? Did he want to set up the hitman for the policeman being strangled?

Malvo told him "You got closer than any other" (paraphrase) I took that to mean that got closest to actually killing Malvo than anyone else ever had, and that he respected that- one hit man to another. He was letting him go and told him that if he healed up and still felt raw about it to come find him and settle it.

 

Yeldarbe, you're brilliant!  How did you know that?  That's some esoteric shit right there.

 

Hit Reply too soon -- molshoop, you're brilliant too.  :)

Hardly brilliant- but thank you! I just knew that all the episode titles had been from parables and the like so I just did a little bit of googling and when I found the The sorites paradox it fit perfectly with the convo Key & Peele had in the file room and I figured that had to be it.

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dohe

dohe

(edited)

Freeman's brilliance is conveying such an extreme arc without there being a point where we see a massive shift.  Yes he commits the murder of his wife and does later actions that are horrendous.  Yet there is not a moment where we see him just snap into a different personality.  Not even when he starts giving out those evil little smirks.  So instead comes a realization.  It was always there.  There is no massive shift.  He was a seed that just needed water. It is an extreme arc but it is an organic arc in which, in retrospect, the evil in him was ready for a release.  Malvo, the almost satanic figure, understood that.  He saw he just needed to apply the water.  And Freeman, in his performance, knows how to let us be aware from early on that this man, while meek and cowardly, was filled with malevolence waiting to blossom. 

Edited by dohe
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LittleIggy

LittleIggy

I love the references to Coen Bros.' films. There was of course the nod to Marge from "Fargo" in the form of the heavily pregnant Molly. Then there was the nod to "No Country..." in the garroting scene--the flat affect of the assassins Chigurh and Malvo and the flailing, scuffling feet of the victims.

I loved Lester stapling the Hess lummoxes. I hated him for eyeing those women when he has a beautiful wife.

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Ujio

Ujio

Absolutely, positively brilliant!  And, yes, bravo to Martin Freeman.  He PHYSICALLY looked like a different person after the flash-forward!  Come Emmy season, he'll definitely be splitting votes with BBT.

 

I cannot wait to see how all this goes down in the end.  I honestly haven't a clue.  This series ended up being something completely different from what I had expected, too, and that's also a good thing.

 

I sure hope we get to see Mr. Wrench again.  I really, really want him to wreak havoc.  And, oh, please, please, please let Molly live. 

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Lonesome Rhodes

Lonesome Rhodes

(edited)

I also got a very real sense of Buridan's Ass raging it's ugly ears.  If Molly and/or Gus had done more, and risked more, the odds are overwhelming they would not be having the domestic bliss they so carefully have arranged.  Super doubtful there would be a bun in the ol' oven, either.

 

So, now Molly's conscience is getting ever more bothered as she considers the meaning of being a mother.  Which is the more correct choice?  To have given up her potential career, or even her life, in pursuit of a real deal evil?  Now, she has really complicated matters with a baby.  Can it be right to fight at the risk of herself or her baby?  Surely, it is right to fight evil for the sake of others - especially generations to come.  Yet, what about a mom?   Is her higher good to do what it takes to raise her baby?  Or, is it better for her to do everything she can to rid the world of an evil so that other babies may not suffer?  

 

What she's chosen thus far?  The middle ground suggested by Buridan's Ass.  And she is in hell.

 

Something tells me that what is happening in Vegas ain't gonna stay in Vegas.

Edited by Lonesome Rhodes
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Rhetorica

Rhetorica

I also got a very real sense of Buridan's Ass raging it's ugly ears. If Molly and/or Gus had done more, and risked more, the odds are overwhelming they would not be having the domestic bliss they so carefully have arranged. Super doubtful there would be a bun in the ol' oven, either.

So, now Molly's conscience is getting ever more bothered as she considers the meaning of being a mother. Which is the more correct choice? To have given up her potential career, or even her life, in pursuit of a real deal evil? Now, she has really complicated matters with a baby. Can it be right to fight at the risk of herself or her baby? Surely, it is right to fight evil for the sake of others - especially generations to come. Yet, what about a mom? Is her higher good to do what it takes to raise her baby? Or, is it better for her to do everything she can to rid the world of an evil so that other babies may not suffer?

What she's chosen thus far? The middle ground suggested by Buridan's Ass. And she is in hell.

Something tells me that what is happening in Vegas ain't gonna stay in Vegas.

I also got a very real sense of Buridan's Ass raging it's ugly ears. If Molly and/or Gus had done more, and risked more, the odds are overwhelming they would not be having the domestic bliss they so carefully have arranged. Super doubtful there would be a bun in the ol' oven, either.

So, now Molly's conscience is getting ever more bothered as she considers the meaning of being a mother. Which is the more correct choice? To have given up her potential career, or even her life, in pursuit of a real deal evil? Now, she has really complicated matters with a baby. Can it be right to fight at the risk of herself or her baby? Surely, it is right to fight evil for the sake of others - especially generations to come. Yet, what about a mom? Is her higher good to do what it takes to raise her baby? Or, is it better for her to do everything she can to rid the world of an evil so that other babies may not suffer?

What she's chosen thus far? The middle ground suggested by Buridan's Ass. And she is in hell.

Something tells me that what is happening in Vegas ain't gonna stay in Vegas.

Beautiful, thought provoking post. My field is Communication Studies and classes included historical speeches. As a student, I always pictured myself standing up to the Nazis. Fast forward years later when I had kids and was teaching these speeches to my own classes. They led to great classroom debates about the openness of Hitler's obvious rhetoric and how good people could let this happen. There is no doubt I would sacrifice others for the sake of my children, but I feel guilty for these thoughts. 

Now I'm worried about Molly even more. Should she become a hero; will her conscience allow her not to be one? 

A Boston Gal

A Boston Gal

I also do not understand why Lester seems to be pursuing Lorne in the previews for next week; I think we might all agree that had it been us, we'd be hightailing it out of the hotel with  spouse in hand toute suite! Also agreeing that Martin Freeman is amazing, and that he's not only gonna give BBT a run for his money come Emmy time, but also True Detective's dynamic duo. And that is some tough competition!

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Spartan Girl

Spartan Girl

I also do not understand why Lester seems to be pursuing Lorne in the previews for next week; I think we might all agree that had it been us, we'd be hightailing it out of the hotel with  spouse in hand toute suite!

 

 

Because Lester isn't exactly the criminal mastermind he thinks he is.  Even Walter White was more well thought out when it came to his evil plans.

 

The only reason framing his brother worked was because the cops sans Molly were too dumb to double check the brother's alibi or follow up on the evidence that put Malvo and Lester together.  Any halfway competent authority figured would have known something was up the night it happened because of the BULLET WOUND ON HIS HAND. 

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mousewithachainsaw

mousewithachainsaw

I really loved it.  A 1 year jump ahead is perfect, as it shows growth in some relationships, but the characters are still recognizable and relatable. 

 

I want Lester to get away with everything, but I also want Molly to nail down the case.  I don't know how that can happen, but this show has pulled off some pretty cool stuff, so it could happen.

I feel the same. I've very conflicted.

Ujio

Ujio

 

Also agreeing that Martin Freeman is amazing, and that he's not only gonna give BBT a run for his money come Emmy time, but also True Detective's dynamic duo. And that is some tough competition!

Boston Gal, I believe the dynamic duo from True Detective will be in the category of Best Actor in a Drama Series, whereas BBT and Martin Freeman will be in the category of Best Actor in a Movie/Miniseries.  It would be such an embarrassment of riches if all four ran in the same category!!!

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Pike Ludwell

Pike Ludwell

(edited)

As to why Lester is pursuing Malvo in the previews, I believe Lester thinks Malvo must be pursuing him, so rather than run and always be worried, he wants to confront Malvo and see what's up.

 

As to the Emmy awards, it will be very close between True Detective and Breaking Bad, but the latter will have more support and momentum and I think Cranston is more deserving, though McConaughey is excellent. Fargo and Martin Freeman will have a decent shot as long as those other two are in that different category.

Edited by Democritus
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annzeepark914

annzeepark914

Something that is so impressive about this series IMO is how small scenes catch your attention and stay in your mind.  I can still see Lester's hand reaching up to the shelves in his home, grabbing all the "collectibles" that his wife had on display, and I just knew where they were going--the trash.  I can also still see the late Mrs. N's sewing machine sitting on top of the garbage cans in front of the house.  And, of course, that scary panning of the snowy woods near where Gus had parked his police car while he chatted on his cellphone. The Coen Brothers et al in this production crew really know how to grab our attention in very subtle ways.

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A Boston Gal

A Boston Gal

Boston Gal, I believe the dynamic duo from True Detective will be in the category of Best Actor in a Drama Series, whereas BBT and Martin Freeman will be in the category of Best Actor in a Movie/Miniseries.  It would be such an embarrassment of riches if all four ran in the same category!!!

Ujio, I hope you're right and the categories are different - embarrassment of riches, indeed! :)  But aren't both Fargo and True Detectives anthology series that will have additional seasons with new casts? So, how will the Emmy people define the difference between "Drama Series" and "Miniseries" in this case?

solotrek

solotrek

 

Ujio, I hope you're right and the categories are different - embarrassment of riches, indeed! :)  But aren't both Fargo and True Detectives anthology series that will have additional seasons with new casts? So, how will the Emmy people define the difference between "Drama Series" and "Miniseries" in this case?

I'm not Ujio, but they were in different categories for the Critics Choice Awards.

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clady

clady

 

The only reason framing his brother worked was because the cops sans Molly were too dumb to double check the brother's alibi or follow up on the evidence that put Malvo and Lester together.  Any halfway competent authority figured would have known something was up the night it happened because of the BULLET WOUND ON HIS HAND.

I've been thinking about this since the episode aired.  I get that the police were dumb but the jury bought this story too?  Chazz didn't have a good enough defense attorney to create reasonable doubt?  I honestly think even a public defender could have poked holes in this story.   It's these little things that cause me to be a little frustrated with the show.  At the same time I'm fascinated.  I will watch to the end because I think it's really good and interesting but I won't watch a second season if there is one. 

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Ujio

Ujio

Oh, I'd just assumed that True Detective was going to be submitted in the Best Drama category because all the experts at Gold Derby had listed it there.  Either way, all I can say is -- what a great year it has been for wonderful male actors on TV!

 

By the way, someone above mentioned that it's Stephen Root that was speaking with Malvo.  Is there a show that he is NOT in???  Or is he stalking MY shows???  (Boardwalk Empire, Justified, Turn...)  He's good in everything he does, too, so I can't wait to see him interact with Martin Freeman and BBT next week!

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Haiti D

Haiti D

I've been thinking about this since the episode aired. I get that the police were dumb but the jury bought this story too? Chazz didn't have a good enough defense attorney to create reasonable doubt? I honestly think even a public defender could have poked holes in this story. It's these little things that cause me to be a little frustrated with the show. At the same time I'm fascinated. I will watch to the end because I think it's really good and interesting but I won't watch a second season if there is one.

I don't think we know Chazz' fate. It's possible the case has not gone to trial yet and he's in that Limbo land before trial (sorry the legal terminology is eluding me).

I am surprised though that Chazz' wife has no doubts about this alleged affair between her husband and Lester's wife.

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Ronin Jackson

Ronin Jackson

I've been thinking about this since the episode aired.  I get that the police were dumb but the jury bought this story too?  Chazz didn't have a good enough defense attorney to create reasonable doubt?  I honestly think even a public defender could have poked holes in this story.   It's these little things that cause me to be a little frustrated with the show.  At the same time I'm fascinated.  I will watch to the end because I think it's really good and interesting but I won't watch a second season if there is one. 

 

I'm in the same boat.  This definitely is not a series that holds up if you apply much logical thinking to the way the plot has unfolded... or at the very least, there would be no story if 90% of the characters weren't incompetent boobs.  As for characters who aren't completely stupid, you have Malvo, who is supposed to be an evil genius (but wouldn't be if everyone around him weren't dumb), Lester, who seems to get smarter and more successful the more evil he becomes, Molly, who almost singularly manages to remain both earnest and competent, the police chief who was killed in the first episode, and maybe Gus' daughter... the rest of the characters are basically inept dominoes or balls in Rube Goldberg machines designed by Malvo and Lester.  But the machine would not work if the characters weren't so inept.  Maybe the writer just isn't interested creating a logical plot or intelligent characters, which is okay, but I'm not particularly interested in whatever it is the writer was interested in concocting.  

 

FYI, the reason Fargo and True Detective are submitted in different categories for awards is because that's how the respective networks chose to submit them.  HBO wanted to put up True Detective in the drama series categories because, despite the stiffer competition, the attention and publicity are greater for Drama Series rewards.  FX chooses to submit their anthology series American Horror Story and Fargo as miniseries because they'll have a greater chance of winning in those categories.

beadgirl

beadgirl

 

So... I'm suppose I'm starting to buy into the Malvo/demon theory.

Me too.  As long as they keep it as subtle as they have -- anything even slightly more obvious would make it ridiculous.  From the moment where Malvo fucked with the motelkeeper's grandson, I saw him as more of a force for chaotic evil than an actual man, which is why I am ok with, and expect, that he will walk away from all of this absolutely scott free. 

 

But that also means I want and expect Lester to get caught, or otherwise punished, partly for my own satisfaction and partly because he is an ordinary man.

 

 

I don't think we know Chazz' fate. It's possible the case has not gone to trial yet and he's in that Limbo land before trial (sorry the legal terminology is eluding me).

He may also have accepted a plea, perhaps convinced he could not win at trial, or perhaps as part of a deal to salvage his son's fate.  I also see his wife abandoning him and no longer paying for his attorney, and Chazz falling into a sort of hopelessness and maybe pleading for that reason.  He doesn't strike me as a particularly strong person.

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cali1981

cali1981

 

The "pubes" line was fantastic, though.  I also loved seeing the joy on BBT's face as he had the writhing cop in his death throes on his back.  The dude loves his work, eh?

Absolutely, along with "I let you come inside of me". Major props go to Kate Walsh for being one of the real acting gems of this season and getting to recite two of the funniest and raunchiest lines outside of programming on HBO/Showtime/ Starz that you will hear on cable.  Major props also to FX for not watering down the dialogue.

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Irlandesa

Irlandesa

FYI, the reason Fargo and True Detective are submitted in different categories for awards is because that's how the respective networks chose to submit them.  HBO wanted to put up True Detective in the drama series categories because, despite the stiffer competition, the attention and publicity are greater for Drama Series rewards.  FX chooses to submit their anthology series American Horror Story and Fargo as miniseries because they'll have a greater chance of winning in those categories.

 

 

Right.  True Detective is probably HBO's best shot at some drama wins.  Boardwalk Empire is past its Emmy prime and Game of Thrones appears to be too genre-y.  I think only Peter D has a win. 

 

In the movies/mini-series category, HBO can throw its support behind The Normal Heart which I think will get plenty of acting nominations. 

 

I agree with the Martin Freeman praise.  The transformation was perfect and he did even out the accent which happens the more exposure to other accents someone gets.  But one thing I liked his his physicality in the way he was standing and talking.  I'm specifically thinking of the stance he had when Molly looked in the window into the insurance office.  It was just a small but great touch.

John Potts

John Potts

Not sure about the one year time jump. Basically, you can overlook plot inconsistencies with the police because they're all idiots, but to suppose that the entire legal process is equally incompetent is a whole other improbability to swallow (I've heard it said - in any film/TV show you're prepared to concede one improbability, beyond that you start to question it). After all, Chazz(?) has every incentive to dredge up all the reasonable doubts he can (and what with him being actually innocent, he's got the truth on his side, for what that's worth). There are just too many inconsistencies for the case to be closed - and presumably, the FBI guys will ultimately link up with Molly to hash it out.

 

I thought when we Gus talking to Molly on the phone "Ah, it's good to see they're still friends" - and then when heavily pregnant Molly appeared onscreen "really good friends!" Good to know she's still got her Big Board to try and resolve the case, even if she knows no to bring it up with her boss.

 

Curious5 Why did Malvo leave the hitman alive in the hospital?

 

 

I got the impression it was partly out of respect for a fellow "professional", what with the Kill Bill homage they threw in.

 

littleIggy I loved Lester stapling the Hess lummoxes. I hated him for eyeing those women when he has a beautiful wife.

 

Given he's in Vegas, I assumed they were hookers, so it's not so much "pulling" as "getting a good rate" (and hey, he is salesman of the year!), not that it is any less cheating. I thought he might pull the bartender though (and I love the conversation about awards for best drug dealer - it could happen!).

Kanako

Kanako

So HBO has officially submitted True Detective in the Drama category.  That means that Fargo's biggest rival in the Miniseries category should be the latest installment of American Horror Story. 

I think how Martin Freeman has transformed himself during the course of this season definitely warrants a nomination, and while BBT is fabulous as Malvo, Freeman seems to be gaining momentum.  I hope they submitted this episode for Martin Freeman (and see him go up against Benedict Cumberbatch)!

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Reo

Reo

(edited)

Martin Freeman's delivery of Lester's acceptance speech was my favorite line in this episode.

Okay. One more episode, and then I'm all caught up for the finale.

 

I thought his acceptance speech was short and brilliant.  Martin kicks ass.

 

"Disasters happen...and that's why you need insurance."  

 

(Except for the fact that the insurance company strenuously avoids paying out a penny whenever it can.  A perfect business for a budding sociopath.  No wonder he got salesman of the year.)

Edited by Reo
  • Love 2
Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

Just started watching this show after watching the movie again over the holidays and thought this episode was amazing.

On 6/4/2014 at 12:12 AM, Dust Bunny said:

Martin Freeman has developed the most subtle, smooth, and authentic Minnesotan accent on the show. Maybe being from Britain, he recognizes and works harder on the subtle differences between regional, and even city, accents. I want to claim him as an honorary Minnesotan. 

Is it just me or did his accent get less pronounced and less dorky the more cool he got. If he did it must have been on purpose since it is not like Martin Freeman slipped back into sounding British.

On 6/4/2014 at 12:55 AM, thuganomics85 said:

 as far as I'm concerned, the FBI agents will always be Agent Key & Peele to me.

My kids love Toy Story 4 so to me they are Agents Ducky and Bunny.

On 6/4/2014 at 4:00 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Yeah, I saw his name in the credits and there was a clearer shot of him in next week's previews.  I'm curious to see if he's another person Lorne is trying to con, or if it will be something completely different.  Either way, I"m looking forward to it, because Stephen Root is awesome.

Stephen Root is awesome, and it continues to blow my mind how deep the talent level of the cast is. I mean you have Stephen Root showing up when there are just a couple of episodes left and you have actors who could easily carry shows on their own being secondary or even background characters. Kate Walsh was in like 3 episodes and Molly's dad is Wild Bill Hickok from Deadwood and he maybe gets a couple of lines an episode.

On 6/4/2014 at 12:17 PM, FineWashables said:

I  for one, have no desire to see Lester get caught. 

I don't think he will get caught but since this is Fargo he is probably a dead man walking.

On 6/4/2014 at 2:15 PM, iMonrey said:

Did anyone else think Lester was going to end up sleeping with his brother's wife, like he did with Hess's wife? I'm kind of surprised they didn't go there

I totally did especially since she was talking about how she couldn't believe her husband could cheat on someone as hot as Miss whatever county.

On 6/6/2014 at 11:58 AM, beadgirl said:

He may also have accepted a plea, perhaps convinced he could not win at trial, or perhaps as part of a deal to salvage his son's fate.  I also see his wife abandoning him and no longer paying for his attorney, and Chazz falling into a sort of hopelessness and maybe pleading for that reason.  He doesn't strike me as a particularly strong person.

Yea I could also see his wife taking the stand against him and making everything suspicious he ever did look like he was cheating on her. For all we know he was cheating, just not with Lester's wife.

  • Love 1
possibilities

possibilities

We know that Malvo has a connection to the insurance industry, because of him visiting the agent in order to get the name of who to go after in Fargo. So it could be that he's a supernatural entity tracking Lester, but it also could just be that the insurance industry is his usual environment, so not that much of a coincidence that he'd be there.

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