S05.E08: I Want to Love You Until the Day I Die

[Neurochick]

I watched the entire episode.  Even though I wasn’t surprised by anything, I thought it was well done.  The cinematography, editing, music, everything was on point.

The murder was brutal but I don’t think Miller was innocent.  Interesting that both Nate and Bonnie came to the exact same conclusion about Miller.  When Nate confronted Miller after he exited the car, Miller said, “Bonnie’s wrong” or something like that, and Nate was like, what?  He hadn’t even talked to Bonnie.  The murder was brutal, but, if someone had my parent killed, and I got my hands on them, I can’t say that I wouldn’t do what Nate did, I mean that was his dad.  As for seeing a black man kill a white man, we’ll, I believe black actors should be able to play a variety of characters, watch Viola Davis’ Law And Order: Criminal Intent episode and you’ll see what I mean.  She played a horrible character, but frankly, I understood why she did what she did, and that was scared.

Gabriel, yikes.  I liked the final shot, where we see Gabriel and then the camera flips around and we see Sam.

Before the final shot, there’s a scene from a previous season, where Annalise tells Sam that he likes his women messed up.  We do know Gabriel’s mom was an alcoholic, and the way Gabriel spoke about her, she’s no longer alive.  I think he wants to come back to find out what happened to Sam, who probably wasn’t that much of a dad.

[KaveDweller]

18 hours ago, Arbee said:

Yeah but why do we think Gabriel is from Sam's first marriage? I kind of don't. First, why wouldn't Sam have had a relationship with the kid? Second, the birth certificate states his birth year as being 1994 - Annalise and Sam had been together 20 years or more when Sam died in 2014, so since before Gabriel was born. Third, why is Gabriel lurking around WITH his birth certificate hidden in a lock box? Why? I think he is the product of Sam and ANOTHER other woman and Sam never knew about the baby. Which could mean that Annalise orchestrated his secret adoption or the mom died or something and Annalise got rid of the baby to keep Sam. Otherwise it makes no sense for Gabriel to have been a secret or for him to be sneaking around Annalise's life.

Gabriel is shady, but I don't think having his birth certificate in a lock box is weird. I keep mine in a lock box with various other important papers.  

I agree the baby is likely not from Sam's first marriage. Annalise would have likely know the name of the kid. Even if  Sam didn't have a relationship with him, the ex would likely have gotten child support. So it is likely the result of an affair while he was with Annalise, possibly one she didn't even know about.

7 hours ago, stormy weather said:

- Nate beats Miller (almost) to death. Based on what? A picture of him making a phone call? Sooo out of character for Nate, who has always been a kind meh character throughout the show. I never thought he would be capable of such brutal violence.

I guess they thought Nate was the one who has done the least amount of murder-related crimes and needed to catch up.

I don't know why Miller would have been on a pay phone,  but I am almost positive he is innocent of arranging Nate Sr's death.

[healthnut]

This season was on fire for 5 7/8 episodes, them they killed Nate Sr and it’s been all downhill. I really don’t think they needed another murder and what a terrible reveal with Gabriel being Sam’s kid. So disappointing...

And yes, Billy Brown’s acting was not good 

[tanyak]

7 hours ago, stormy weather said:

I sincerely apologize because I had no idea that was traditional Filipino attire for a groom. I looked it up and it appears the traditional shirts are usually more ornate and made of what seems to be organza, while Oliver's seemed a bit more plain, but nonetheless, my mistake. Sorry and thank you for pointing it out.

Oh no worries! I, frankly, assumed as you did at first. I didn’t totally put it together until the reception.

[Free]

1 hour ago, healthnut said:

This season was on fire for 5 7/8 episodes, them they killed Nate Sr and it’s been all downhill. I really don’t think they needed another murder and what a terrible reveal with Gabriel being Sam’s kid. So disappointing...

And yes, Billy Brown’s acting was not good 

Yeah, it feels more like they have to keep up the body count to live up to the show's title.

[love2lovebadtv]

23 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Annalise never will be able to rid herself of Sam, will she? Even his kids are haunting her! I dont really think him being Sams get is such an earth shattering revelation, honestly. She has no real connection to him, and unless he is here to find out what happened to his dad and get revenge for his death, its really not as dramatic as the background music wanted it to be. Also, it seems like he is the son of Sam and his ex wife from before Annalise. Did Annalise never meet her husbands son, in several years of marriage? Or is he a long lost kid from some random affair? 

I'm confused. I don't know if Vivian Maddox was Sam's wife or someone else, but if she and Sam relinquished their parental rights and gave Gabriel up for adoption, then wouldn't it make sense that Annalise never met him? I would think if Sam wanted to be in his life, he wouldn't have given him up for adoption.

I think Maddox was Gabriel's original last name before adoption and the name on the other paperwork is his current name. If Annalise didn't recognize the name Maddox, then Gabriel's ex probably isn't his mother, right? And what about this adoption is so scandalous that the governor wouldn't hire Annalise, even after all her other issues? So many questions. 

[Blue Plastic]

I was entertained while watching but feel a bit underwhelmed.  Nothing really made that much sense.  Why was Frank so convinced Gabriel was bad news from the start?  What tipped him off to go looking into his background?  Why did Nate and Bonnie go all eye-for-an-eye when the evidence that Miller was involved in Nate's father's death was kind of flimsy?  Why did Bonnie take the baby to check on the beatdown?  Why is Gabriel so mad (presumably) at Annalise that he has been basically stalking her and her students and sneaking up on her in her house?  I can understand why she might not be his favorite person if he thinks she broke up his parents' marriage or something, but really?  Sam's long lost kid is back and he's stealing Annalise's keys and sneaking into her home?

The Hapstall season was the all time worst for me but this could come in close behind.  I actually wouldn't mind this season being tied back to Sam.  OTOH, Sam has been dead for a while now and bringing him back into the story at this point requires some measure of retconning and plot holes, such as why Annalise wouldn't recognize Gabriel's surname but Frank apparently did.

Poor Bonnie, moping around at the reception because she had to suffocate her boyfriend.  *rolls eyes*

Jack Falahee's acting was great, especially when Oliver sang to Connor.

Michaela looked stunning.  As a makeup aficionado, I was loving how her eyeshadow really complemented and brought out her eyes.

[AmandaPanda]

On 11/15/2018 at 10:17 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

All. Of. This. 

I'm annoyed that they had Bonnie finish off Miller after Nate beat him up. The whole reveal of Miller supposedly ordering Nate Senior's death was wack. I didn't find any of it believable. And I don't think it's a big leap to say that we'll find out in the back half of the season that Miller was innocent. What a waste of a character.

So, now we know that Gabriel is Sam's son. But I still don't care. They haven't made that character anything beyond a cipher.

Loved all the wedding looks, but Bonnie's and Annalise's were my favorites. 

Connor's Dad: I'm a lawyer, too. I have a lot of opinions.

Annalise: Problem is, I didn't ask for your opinion.

*dead*

Agreed. Everything about the way Miller supposedly killed Nate Sr was circumstantial and I don't think he did it. I think there's a possibility he knows who did order it, but I don't think he actually did it himself. I think the second half of the season will be them realizing they killed the wrong person and trying to cover that up/figure out who the real killer is. 

[skotnikov]

On 16.11.2018 at 8:00 PM, stormy weather said:

I'm sorry but... did I miss something? I have so many questions about this episode.

- So Gabriel is Sam's son. Why is Annalise so devastated? She said herself she was "the other woman", so she could've at least imagined that Sam might have had secret children who would pop up some day? And why is Gabriel acting so creepy? What is he after? Why would he be mad at/want to hurt Annelise? Because she broke up his parents, maybe? Like what, 20 years ago? Grow up, Gabriel, nobody cares. 

- Nate beats Miller (almost) to death. Based on what? A picture of him making a phone call? Sooo out of character for Nate, who has always been a kind meh character throughout the show. I never thought he would be capable of such brutal violence.

- Bonnie finishes the job. Why? To protect Nate? Like they're so BFF she's willing to murder her own boyfriend for him? And the stupid yet perfectly timed fight they had before the wedding? I don't buy it.

- Christopher's previously immaculate white blanket has blood stains all over it. No one notices. Okay.

- Last but not least, I get the "I didn't need a tuxedo, I needed you" wedding vows but Oliver, for the love of God, you looked like you just got out of bed at your own wedding. 

The build-up was so much better than the reveals.

But it's typical HTGAWM. Show runners have no idea what  they are doing and why they are doing this. Each season after the first is the same lame poor writing. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by skotnikov

[quinni224]

Does anyone know where I can get this palmistry shirt that Annalise was wearing, or something similar? 

Edited November 17, 2018 by quinni224

[Joimiaroxeu]

Put your thingies away.

I liked Michaela's wedding hairdo.

Christopher is a very chill baby. He didn't cry during the ceremony or that noisy reception.

Hah, hah, Nate lives to see another half-season at least. It's going to be hard to cover up the murder of a DA though. Bet Annalise will figure out a way to pin it on Governor Mean Lady.

When Oliver started singing my allergies kicked in. Or was it that bushel of onions?

Quote

Please look beyond skin color. Wes is tall (6'4"), thin and lanky. Gabriel is not. He's much shorter and has a more muscular upper body  (5'9 - 6ft depending on the website you check). They look NOTHING alike except for being brown. This is starting to remind me of season 3 when Asher almost got his butt kicked because he touched another woman thinking it was Micheala and other than being Black the woman looked nothing like Michaela.

Thank you for saying this.

[TiredMe]

11 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

Poor Bonnie, moping around at the reception because she had to suffocate her boyfriend.  *rolls eyes*

LOL I know.  Really hate when that happens. 

[Free]

8 hours ago, Tasha Brand said:

Oh, we're totally going to find out that Miller was innocent.  (Not spoiling, just speculating.)  And Nate is going to feel like absolute shit.

Pretty much for the back half of the season.

[Kaiju Ballet]

Did Bonnie confront Nate about how Annalise was back to drinking because of his father's case? I think her helping Nate with covering up his attack on Miller was ultimately to help Annalise, and not to help Nate.

I agree that in the fight she had with Miller she was triggered by his use of the term "your issues" and then she proceeded to lambast him for badmouthing "the most important person" to her: Annalise. It held together for me that Bonnie would do her go-to murder move: smothering.

It was super tragic when Nate came across the ring, and my first thought was whether he was going to blab about this too to Bonnie and destroy her all over again.

I was so scared that there was sexual tension between Gabriel and Annelise in the church confrontation, when they were just about a foot away from each other and I think he either grabbed her or blocked her in some way. That was probably more squicky for me than the violence of Miller's beatdown.

Gabriel's wad of hundreds in his apartment has been shown in this episode and the first time that Frank went through his apartment. So someone influential and/or with huge financial resources is involved too, at least in funding Gabriel in his not-yet-revealed agenda.

I really like Oliver's mother, and the actress who plays her. I may have reached for a Kleenex in the exchange of vows, especially Jack Falahee's trembling hands as they exchanged rings (with Christopher sort of being the ring bearer) and yes, maybe another Kleenex when Oliver was singing his "big gesture"

Speaking of, could anyone make out the visual of Oliver's father on the phone? His being in the Middle East and that joke about his being a spy makes me think there will be a story there, possibly next season's Big Bad.

And yeah, I miss Tegan.

[helenamonster]

Anyone who predicted Gabriel would be Sam's son and/or that Miller was the dead body, please come and collect your winnings!

So as of now it's hard to tell if Vivian Maddox was Sam's first wife or just another mistress, especially as I'm totally blanking on the timeline of Sam and Annalise's relationship. If Vivian was OG Mrs. Keating, my prediction is that she got pregnant with Gabriel while Sam was carrying on an affair with Annalise. Sam then went to end the marriage to leave Vivian for Annalise, and when he found out Vivian was pregnant he and Annalise conspired to convince Vivian to give up Gabriel for adoption or possibly fabricate evidence to make her an unfit mother so that Gabriel would be adopted out and Sam could leave Vivian with less guilt about being a deadbeat dad (and also not having to pay child support).

On the other hand, Vivian could have been The Other Woman while Sam was in a relationship with/married to Annalise. Annalise could have been really building her law practice at that time and didn't want the scandal of her husband's bastard love child, so she and Sam convinced Vivian to give Gabriel up for adoption. For both cases, I'm not sure if Vivian Maddox or Gabriel's potential adoptive mother was the one with the drinking/mental health problems.

The only thing that gives me pause on Gabriel successfully being adopted out is that his last name is still Maddox. Though perhaps he changed it to that when he turned 18 to honor his birth mother, who may have been a victim of circumstance and at the mercy of Sam and Annalise, whether she was the first wife or another mistress.

I will say it is quite an accomplishment for this show to have none of the K4 + Oliver involved in either central mystery. Laurel's kind of on the periphery of the Gabriel thing but this is really a story for the grownups (Annalise, Bonnie, Frank, and Nate). Of course they will get dragged in eventually but I found that element oddly refreshing.

Yeah, Miller definitely didn't have anything to do with Nate Sr.'s death so the countdown so everybody feeling super guilty can start now.

Lmao at Annalise being upset that her new address is slowly leaking out to the kiddos. You'll never escape them, girl!

Connor's dad is shady as hell and can leave whenever.

[love2lovebadtv]

1 hour ago, helenamonster said:

Anyone who predicted Gabriel would be Sam's son and/or that Miller was the dead body, please come and collect your winnings!

So as of now it's hard to tell if Vivian Maddox was Sam's first wife or just another mistress, especially as I'm totally blanking on the timeline of Sam and Annalise's relationship. If Vivian was OG Mrs. Keating, my prediction is that she got pregnant with Gabriel while Sam was carrying on an affair with Annalise. Sam then went to end the marriage to leave Vivian for Annalise, and when he found out Vivian was pregnant he and Annalise conspired to convince Vivian to give up Gabriel for adoption or possibly fabricate evidence to make her an unfit mother so that Gabriel would be adopted out and Sam could leave Vivian with less guilt about being a deadbeat dad (and also not having to pay child support).

On the other hand, Vivian could have been The Other Woman while Sam was in a relationship with/married to Annalise. Annalise could have been really building her law practice at that time and didn't want the scandal of her husband's bastard love child, so she and Sam convinced Vivian to give Gabriel up for adoption. For both cases, I'm not sure if Vivian Maddox or Gabriel's potential adoptive mother was the one with the drinking/mental health problems.

The only thing that gives me pause on Gabriel successfully being adopted out is that his last name is still Maddox. Though perhaps he changed it to that when he turned 18 to honor his birth mother, who may have been a victim of circumstance and at the mercy of Sam and Annalise, whether she was the first wife or another mistress.

I will say it is quite an accomplishment for this show to have none of the K4 + Oliver involved in either central mystery. Laurel's kind of on the periphery of the Gabriel thing but this is really a story for the grownups (Annalise, Bonnie, Frank, and Nate). Of course they will get dragged in eventually but I found that element oddly refreshing.

Yeah, Miller definitely didn't have anything to do with Nate Sr.'s death so the countdown so everybody feeling super guilty can start now.

Lmao at Annalise being upset that her new address is slowly leaking out to the kiddos. You'll never escape them, girl!

Connor's dad is shady as hell and can leave whenever.

I was thinking that the birth certificate probably has his mother's name original (maiden) surname Maddox, and that was his name, too until he was adopted. This could be the case whether Vivian Maddox was married to Gabriel or not,I think. I was also thinking that the ID frank found is Gabriel's post-adoption name. Could explain why Annalise didn't recognize the name Maddox. I wouldn't say the last name is extremely rare. But it's not like a Rodriguez /Jones/Rosenberg/Smith type of name either. 

I dunno. Speculating here because I'm confused after watching this. 

[colorbars]

2 hours ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

Did Bonnie confront Nate about how Annalise was back to drinking because of his father's case? I think her helping Nate with covering up his attack on Miller was ultimately to help Annalise, and not to help Nate.

I agree that in the fight she had with Miller she was triggered by his use of the term "your issues" and then she proceeded to lambast him for badmouthing "the most important person" to her: Annalise. It held together for me that Bonnie would do her go-to murder move: smothering.

It was super tragic when Nate came across the ring, and my first thought was whether he was going to blab about this too to Bonnie and destroy her all over again.

I was so scared that there was sexual tension between Gabriel and Annelise in the church confrontation, when they were just about a foot away from each other and I think he either grabbed her or blocked her in some way. That was probably more squicky for me than the violence of Miller's beatdown.

Yeah, Bonnie finishing the job on Miller was definitely mostly due to Annalise, to me. Both because of what you said, but also because Bonnie knew that Annalise would help Nate and would want her to help him too, so she stepped up as best she could under the circumstances. Would she have done it without their earlier confrontation and her thinking he had Nate Sr killed, and thus led to Annalise falling off the wagon? Probably not, but I think it was ultimately for/about Annalise for Bonnie, as it always is.

I think the possible sexual tension in the Gabriel/Annalise scene was because they were purposely trying to mirror her Pilot scene with Wes, right down to her touching his chest/face or whatever. It gave me very similar vibes to the weird creepy tension that was in a lot of Wes/Annalise scenes.

[bantering]

How many people is Bonnie going to kill?

 

I also don't like that they compromised Nate's character like this.

Not sure I get the point of any of what's happening this season. Sam's death was tolerable because Frank (A HIT MAN) did it. No one cared about Rebecca, so in a way maybe Bonnie did viewers a favour.  And, er, well, it's Bonnie. I mean, she's friends with Frank. Killing probably comes naturally to her. But who wants to see a guy like Nate, a police officer and generally someone who has a "clean" record (by, er, this show's standards), get compromised to the point that he has a direct hand in someone's death? Hopefully, Miller turns out to be guilty. 

 

Edited:

I meant to say that Frank killed the girl that Sam wanted murdered. Other people killed Sami -- so many murders happen for stupid  reasons on this show, I can't keep who killed whom straight.

Edited November 18, 2018 by bantering
Fixed strikethrough formatting issue

[scruffy73]

Ollie singing to Connor brought me to tears in a good way. He has a beautiful voice. I wish them real happiness...starting with Connor’s father hitting the bricks asap.

Asher and Connor’s mom in the parking lot....gross. Connor has to address this with Asher eventually but how do you say “dude why was your face in my mom’s crotch?”

Michaela looked beautiful. Annalise was stunning. Bonnie was gorgeous. The only thing I remember about Laurel is her panicked look all the time. I wanted to punch her in the face. I always want to punch Frank in the face.

41 minutes ago, bantering said:

How many people is Bonnie going to kill?

 

I also don't like that they compromised Nate's character like this.

Not sure I get the point of any of what's happening this season. Sam's death was tolerable because Frank (A HIT MAN) did it. No one cared about Rebecca, so in a way maybe Bonnie did viewers a favour.  And, er, well, it's Bonnie. I mean, she's friends with Frank. Killing probably comes naturally to her. But who wants to see a guy like Nate, a police officer and generally someone who has a "clean" record (by, er, this show's standards), get compromised to the point that he has a direct hand in someone's death? Hopefully, Miller turns out to be guilty. 

Frank didn’t kill Sam. “The kids” killed Sam.

[starri]

8 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

When Oliver started singing my allergies kicked in. Or was it that bushel of onions?

I don't usually cry at weddings, but HTGAWM and Doctor Who both got me this week.

I don't need LGBTQ characters to have Plot Armor, but with everyone talking about how happy Connor and Oliver are, it felt like there were anvils falling all over the place.  I'm so happy that was a fake-out.

20 minutes ago, scruffy73 said:

“The kids” killed Sam.

Wes killed Sam.

[Kaiju Ballet]

1 hour ago, starri said:

I don't usually cry at weddings, but HTGAWM and Doctor Who both got me this week.

I don't need LGBTQ characters to have Plot Armor, but with everyone talking about how happy Connor and Oliver are, it felt like there were anvils falling all over the place.  I'm so happy that was a fake-out.

Me too--this was a double tearjerker week!

I liked the clergyperson who married them, and hope they work her in as a recurring character, especially for Connor.  His character's shown a lot of growth over the seasons, and even just this season alone. It would be great to give him at least one ally or confidant who isn't a parent to him/K5, in-law, or literal partner-in-crime. 

[rubyred]

One thing that I hope gets explored more is Connor and Annalise's relationship. VD and JF are great scene partners. I used to be just generally irritated by Connor, but last season when he showed up at her fleabag hotel saying "Hey girl, hey" and they split some ice cream for dinner...that got me. 

Earlier in the season he had a hissy fit because she got him back into law school, which was kind of WTF, but now I think Connor and Annalise are entering into one of her standard enmeshed relationships (see Bonnie, Frank), where people are ride or die for her despite their own best interests (and to be fair, I don't think she's always sought this out, but is damaged enough to need - and exploit - it).

[starri]

1 hour ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

His character's shown a lot of growth over the seasons, and even just this season alone

I wouldn't be surprised if people ended up stealing his vows for their own ceremonies.

And I agree.  The minister is a great character and I would love it if she made a return.  I just really liked the actress.

[bantering]

7 hours ago, scruffy73 said:

Ollie singing to Connor brought me to tears in a good way. He has a beautiful voice. I wish them real happiness...starting with Connor’s father hitting the bricks asap.

Asher and Connor’s mom in the parking lot....gross. Connor has to address this with Asher eventually but how do you say “dude why was your face in my mom’s crotch?”

Michaela looked beautiful. Annalise was stunning. Bonnie was gorgeous. The only thing I remember about Laurel is her panicked look all the time. I wanted to punch her in the face. I always want to punch Frank in the face.

Frank didn’t kill Sam. “The kids” killed Sam.

Oh that's right. I made a mistake. He killed the girl Sam wanted murdered. Anyway, when Frank and Bonnie and the rest of the kids are doing the killing, I guess that seems more tolerable to me. But I'd prefer Analise and Nate aren't tainted like that.

[possibilities]

9 hours ago, bantering said:

How many people is Bonnie going to kill?

She and Frank probably have a competition going, to see which of them can kill the most in order to protect Annalise.

 

5 hours ago, rubyred said:

One thing that I hope gets explored more is Connor and Annalise's relationship. VD and JF are great scene partners.

They are amazing together and I want them, and Tegan, to take over the show.

 

2 hours ago, bantering said:

Anyway, when Frank and Bonnie and the rest of the kids are doing the killing, I guess that seems more tolerable to me. But I'd prefer Analise and Nate aren't tainted like that.

I feel the same way!

Shady death clarifications:
--Frank killed Lila at Sam's order.
--Wes killed Sam by losing his shit much like Nate did. Another stereotypical choice that was otherwise out of character for both of them.
--Bonnie killed Rebecca.
--Asher killed DA Smugface.
--Hapstall murder was ... I forget the details. I think he killed first and then he himself was killed?
--Wes's mom killed herself to prevent what she considered a worse fate at the hands of the Mahoneys.
--The Mahoneys killed Anna's baby while trying to kill Anna, with an accidental assist from Frank who was working for the Mahoneys as revenge for Anna insulting him.
--Simon accidentally shot himself in the course of having Laurel, Michaela, and Oliver them conspire to completely destroy his life.
--Nate and Bonnie killed Miller.
--We aren't 100% sure yet who killed Nate's dad.
 

Did I forget anyone?

[rubyred]

Frank killed Wes' grandfather Mahoney. Oh, and he also killed Bonnie's father.

Edited November 18, 2018 by rubyred

[blackwing]

A few more deaths: 

Jorge Castillo’s thug killed Wes

Frank killed Jorge Castillo’s thug

Asher’s dad hung himself

Jorge Castillo had DA Denver killed

Nate helped his sick wife kill herself with pills

Annalise’s friend from prison OD’ed

 

So far, three people in the district attorney’s office have been killed.  I really hope they don’t make Tegan the new acting DA.   She must live.   They could make Bonnie the new acting DA, that would have interesting conflict of interest issues with Annalise.

[maddie965]

So I guess it's a win for Frank. Heh. Never thought I would cheer for a murderer...

I was also underwhelmed by this episode. Best part was Oliver singing. I had no idea the actor had such a great voice!!!

There are many things that bother me, but this is making me mad. In that conversation between Bonnie, Frankie an Laurel, why did they all assume that killing Gabriel was a good idea? Laurel even suggested killing him at the party! Why are they so sure he's a threat? I mean, it's possible that he's investigating Sam's death, but to go from there to "Let's kill him!" seems a little too much, even for these people.

Yes for the Annalise/Connor/Tegan show. Bring it on!

Edited November 18, 2018 by maddie965

[scruffy73]

15 minutes ago, maddie965 said:

So I guess it's a win for Frank. Heh. Never thought I would cheer for a murderer...

I was also underwhelmed by this episode. Best part was Oliver singing. I had no idea the actor had such a great voice!!!

There are many things that bother me, but this is making me mad. In that conversation between Bonnie, Frankie an Laurel, why did they all assume that killing Gabriel was a good idea? Laurel even suggested killing him at the party! Why are they so sure he's a threat? I mean, it's possible that he's investigating Sam's death, but to go from there to "Let's kill him!" seems a little too much, even for these people.

Yes for the Annalise/Connor/Tegan show. Bring it on!

Yes! “Let’s kill him!” was ridiculous, even for the Murder 3. (I know that Laurel hasn’t murdered anyone but she seems comfortable with it when eve Frank isn’t).

i would like the Annalise/Connor/Tegan show very much....with Ollie singing in the background sometimes 

[renatae]

I'm not getting why Gabriel's parentage is such an issue for Annalise that she winds up wailing on the floor. I'm feeling like, so what? And why would she need to fear him? I'm with others; Sam's dead, who cares?

And what adoption? If it's Gabe, again, who cares, and what's to fear? Are we to think Annalise is the probable cause of that and he's going to take revenge? Weird.

I don't think Miller set up Nate's dad. Bonnie killing him was harsh and hard to watch. Her dragging the baby out there was dumb and senseless in the plot except as a red herring.

[rubyred]

2 hours ago, renatae said:

I'm not getting why Gabriel's parentage is such an issue for Annalise that she winds up wailing on the floor. I'm feeling like, so what? And why would she need to fear him? I'm with others; Sam's dead, who cares?

And what adoption? If it's Gabe, again, who cares, and what's to fear? Are we to think Annalise is the probable cause of that and he's going to take revenge? Weird.

Yeah I don't get it either. For a show that's pretty progressive in a lot of ways, to act like adoption is an act of shame and disgrace is bizarrely retro.

I've never understood why the showrunner has gone on record saying they don't plan the series out beforehand, and instead wing it through the season. Really? This is what you want to brag on? It's a whodunit. How are we supposed to maintain interest when we know you're playing it by ear? That is not a mark of cleverness. Not all writers are as talented as Vince Gilligan, who would deliberately write the Breaking Bad characters into corners to see how their characters would get out of them.

Sometimes winging it works for them - it makes for fun "what was that now?" scenes, flashback twists, etc. But sometimes it crosses a line, where they can't resist being just that little bit extra. For example, why did Asher have to go down on Connor's mom? Why couldn't they just have been making out? I can't fathom a reason that propells the narrative forward to have that happen. It's random, and IMO it crosses a line in their friendship and damages Asher's character in a way that he may not be able to climb out of. This may reveal my own pathology, but that act grossed me out more than him running down that snippy DA, and I hated her ass-face!

If this show weren't so entertaining it would never get away with half of the tom-fuckery it perpetrates.

Edited November 18, 2018 by rubyred
clarity

[scruffy73]

1 hour ago, rubyred said:

Yeah I don't get it either. For a show that's pretty progressive in a lot of ways, to act like adoption is an act of shame and disgrace is bizarrely retro.

I've never understood why the showrunner has gone on record saying they don't plan the series out beforehand, and instead wing it through the season. Really? This is what you want to brag on? It's a whodunit. How are we supposed to maintain interest when we know you're playing it by ear? That is not a mark of cleverness. Not all writers are as talented as Vince Gilligan, who would deliberately write the Breaking Bad characters into corners to see how their characters would get out of them.

Sometimes winging it works for them - it makes for fun "what was that now?" scenes, flashback twists, etc. But sometimes it crosses a line, where they can't resist being just that little bit extra. For example, why did Asher have to go down on Connor's mom? Why couldn't they just have been making out? I can't fathom a reason that propells the narrative forward to have that happen. It's random, and IMO it crosses a line in their friendship and damages Asher's character in a way that he may not be able to climb out of. This may reveal my own pathology, but that act grossed me out more than him running down that snippy DA, and I hated her ass-face!

If this show weren't so entertaining it would never get away with half of the tom-fuckery it perpetrates.

Did Gabriel say his mom or adopted mom was the alcoholic? Was he adopted at birth or a little later in life? What happened to his mom? Did she die? Commit suicide? I remember absolutely nothing about Sam’s first wife, their marriage, his family, etc. just his trashiness with the college student.

and Asher going down on Connor’s mom was unnecessary and gross. Not bc I have an issue with the act itself but doing his boy’s friend crosses an unforgivable line, IMO

[Panopticon]

I enjoyed this episode. I thought Connor and Oliver's vows were lovely. I thought the parental issues were well done. I liked seeing their friends simultaneously being genuinely happy for them and dealing with the angst that a wedding can drag up when you aren't happy yourself. Connor can be angry with Asher forever if he likes... but I'm glad there was at least clear motivation for Asher taking what was put in front of him after having to walk down the aisle with Michaela knowing that she has someone new, who just so happens to be the person who displaced him from the K4.

And I'm here for Sam's face turning up every now and again until the series ends. It hasn't gotten old for me.

[Milaxx]

On 11/16/2018 at 3:38 AM, Arbee said:

Yeah but why do we think Gabriel is from Sam's first marriage? I kind of don't. First, why wouldn't Sam have had a relationship with the kid? Second, the birth certificate states his birth year as being 1994 - Annalise and Sam had been together 20 years or more when Sam died in 2014, so since before Gabriel was born. Third, why is Gabriel lurking around WITH his birth certificate hidden in a lock box? Why? I think he is the product of Sam and ANOTHER other woman and Sam never knew about the baby. Which could mean that Annalise orchestrated his secret adoption or the mom died or something and Annalise got rid of the baby to keep Sam. Otherwise it makes no sense for Gabriel to have been a secret or for him to be sneaking around Annalise's life.

 

On 11/16/2018 at 11:44 PM, love2lovebadtv said:

I'm confused. I don't know if Vivian Maddox was Sam's wife or someone else, but if she and Sam relinquished their parental rights and gave Gabriel up for adoption, then wouldn't it make sense that Annalise never met him? I would think if Sam wanted to be in his life, he wouldn't have given him up for adoption.

I think Maddox was Gabriel's original last name before adoption and the name on the other paperwork is his current name. If Annalise didn't recognize the name Maddox, then Gabriel's ex probably isn't his mother, right? And what about this adoption is so scandalous that the governor wouldn't hire Annalise, even after all her other issues? So many questions. 

It's unclear if Vivian Maddox was Sam's ex-wife or yet another inappropriate relationship between Sam and a student or patient. The only way it would be a scandal is if the adoption was illegally done. Annalise may not have recognized him because it was so long ago.

On 11/17/2018 at 1:33 PM, Kaiju Ballet said:

Did Bonnie confront Nate about how Annalise was back to drinking because of his father's case? I think her helping Nate with covering up his attack on Miller was ultimately to help Annalise, and not to help Nate.

I agree that in the fight she had with Miller she was triggered by his use of the term "your issues" and then she proceeded to lambast him for badmouthing "the most important person" to her: Annalise. It held together for me that Bonnie would do her go-to murder move: smothering.

It was super tragic when Nate came across the ring, and my first thought was whether he was going to blab about this too to Bonnie and destroy her all over again.

I was so scared that there was sexual tension between Gabriel and Annalise in the church confrontation, when they were just about a foot away from each other and I think he either grabbed her or blocked her in some way. That was probably more squicky for me than the violence of Miller's beatdown.

Gabriel's wad of hundreds in his apartment has been shown in this episode and the first time that Frank went through his apartment. So someone influential and/or with huge financial resources is involved too, at least in funding Gabriel in his not-yet-revealed agenda.

I really like Oliver's mother, and the actress who plays her. I may have reached for a Kleenex in the exchange of vows, especially Jack Falahee's trembling hands as they exchanged rings (with Christopher sort of being the ring bearer) and yes, maybe another Kleenex when Oliver was singing his "big gesture"

Speaking of, could anyone make out the visual of Oliver's father on the phone? His being in the Middle East and that joke about his being a spy makes me think there will be a story there, possibly next season's Big Bad.

And yeah, I miss Tegan.

I think Oliver's father was left vague on purpose because they haven't cast him yet. I excited to see who they cast.

On 11/17/2018 at 1:52 PM, helenamonster said:

Anyone who predicted Gabriel would be Sam's son and/or that Miller was the dead body, please come and collect your winnings!

So as of now it's hard to tell if Vivian Maddox was Sam's first wife or just another mistress, especially as I'm totally blanking on the timeline of Sam and Annalise's relationship. If Vivian was OG Mrs. Keating, my prediction is that she got pregnant with Gabriel while Sam was carrying on an affair with Annalise. Sam then went to end the marriage to leave Vivian for Annalise, and when he found out Vivian was pregnant he and Annalise conspired to convince Vivian to give up Gabriel for adoption or possibly fabricate evidence to make her an unfit mother so that Gabriel would be adopted out and Sam could leave Vivian with less guilt about being a deadbeat dad (and also not having to pay child support).

On the other hand, Vivian could have been The Other Woman while Sam was in a relationship with/married to Annalise. Annalise could have been really building her law practice at that time and didn't want the scandal of her husband's bastard love child, so she and Sam convinced Vivian to give Gabriel up for adoption. For both cases, I'm not sure if Vivian Maddox or Gabriel's potential adoptive mother was the one with the drinking/mental health problems.

The only thing that gives me pause on Gabriel successfully being adopted out is that his last name is still Maddox. Though perhaps he changed it to that when he turned 18 to honor his birth mother, who may have been a victim of circumstance and at the mercy of Sam and Annalise, whether she was the first wife or another mistress.

I will say it is quite an accomplishment for this show to have none of the K4 + Oliver involved in either central mystery. Laurel's kind of on the periphery of the Gabriel thing but this is really a story for the grownups (Annalise, Bonnie, Frank, and Nate). Of course they will get dragged in eventually but I found that element oddly refreshing.

Yeah, Miller definitely didn't have anything to do with Nate Sr.'s death so the countdown so everybody feeling super guilty can start now.

Lmao at Annalise being upset that her new address is slowly leaking out to the kiddos. You'll never escape them, girl!

Connor's dad is shady as hell and can leave whenever.

I'm still thinking Gabriel was raised as Mark Jackson and only assumed the name Gabriel Maddox as an adult. I still wonder why the name Maddox didn't trigger alarm bells for AK or maybe it did and that's why she made the exception to allow him to join the class as a 2L and hen he didn't try to approach her she decided to have a more hands off approach than she did with Wes. He didn't get creepy towards AK until the wedding. I also think Gab was a prior affair of Sam's. Perhaps after Annalise and Sam were married Vivian showed up trying to blackmail Sam and he paid her off and had Annalise arrange a black market adoption. It would have to have been early in their marriage before they had tried to have a baby so many times.

On 11/17/2018 at 4:14 PM, bantering said:

How many people is Bonnie going to kill?

 

I also don't like that they compromised Nate's character like this.

Not sure I get the point of any of what's happening this season. Sam's death was tolerable because Frank (A HIT MAN) did it. No one cared about Rebecca, so in a way maybe Bonnie did viewers a favour.  And, er, well, it's Bonnie. I mean, she's friends with Frank. Killing probably comes naturally to her. But who wants to see a guy like Nate, a police officer and generally someone who has a "clean" record (by, er, this show's standards), get compromised to the point that he has a direct hand in someone's death? Hopefully, Miller turns out to be guilty. 

 

Edited:

I meant to say that Frank killed the girl that Sam wanted murdered. Other people killed Sami -- so many murders happen for stupid  reasons on this show, I can't keep who killed whom straight.

 

Frank wasn't a hit man. I think Lila may have been his first kill. If anything Frank was the product of Sam's manipulations. He was a troubled kid who was imprisoned for attempted murder of his father which resulted in his father being in a wheelchair permanently.  Like Bonnie, Frank was brought into the Keating family. Sam's sister went to school with Frank's sister and had him get Frank put much like Annalise helped Bonnie. So Frank was a sort of gofer to Annalise. He did bordeline illegal stuff like getting background searches on potential K5 recruits. Indirectly Sam is the one who murdered Lila. He blackmailed Frank onto actually doing the deed once he knew Lila was going to keep the baby.

On 11/17/2018 at 8:48 PM, rubyred said:

One thing that I hope gets explored more is Connor and Annalise's relationship. VD and JF are great scene partners. I used to be just generally irritated by Connor, but last season when he showed up at her fleabag hotel saying "Hey girl, hey" and they split some ice cream for dinner...that got me. 

Earlier in the season he had a hissy fit because she got him back into law school, which was kind of WTF, but now I think Connor and Annalise are entering into one of her standard enmeshed relationships (see Bonnie, Frank), where people are ride or die for her despite their own best interests (and to be fair, I don't think she's always sought this out, but is damaged enough to need - and exploit - it).

I may have said in another post I think Connor and Annalise are very much alike. Both are full of self doubt that leads them to do either act with bravado or self destructive behavior. I think this pairing works because Viola & Jack have great on screen chemistry and bring out the best in each other. I can't wait until we find out why Annalise picked Connor for the K5. I'm sure it has something do to with his dad. 

On 11/18/2018 at 2:23 AM, possibilities said:

I feel the same way!

Shady death clarifications:
....
--Wes killed Sam by losing his shit much like Nate did. Another stereotypical choice that was otherwise out of character for both of them.
......
--Hapstall murder was ... I forget the details. I think he killed first and then he himself was killed?
.....
 

Did I forget anyone?

I didn't find Wes's killing Sam as out of character as Nate's. In Wes's case it was one blow that was intended to knock Sam off of Rebecca who Sam was choking out.  If Wes had continued to pound the crap out of Sam after the initial blow, I would have found it stereotypical, but one blow and the panic they all went into felt normal to me. In fact I wish that had happened to Nate. Miller is a smallish built guy. If Nate had hit him once and he fell back and his a tree and the blow from the tree or a branch ticking out had killed him or severely injured him, I would find that more acceptable. For Nate to lose his mind and pound him like that so they could have the parallel of his dad killing that inmate, felt out of character and very "angry Black guy" stereotype. Especially for Nate who has spent his entire life trying to be the good guy.

Hapstall was Caleb. He killed his parents and got Catherine to cover for him. When Philip helped the K5 figure it out, he killed himself.

On 11/18/2018 at 9:40 AM, renatae said:

I'm not getting why Gabriel's parentage is such an issue for Annalise that she winds up wailing on the floor. I'm feeling like, so what? And why would she need to fear him? I'm with others; Sam's dead, who cares?

And what adoption? If it's Gabe, again, who cares, and what's to fear? Are we to think Annalise is the probable cause of that and he's going to take revenge? Weird.

I don't think Miller set up Nate's dad. Bonnie killing him was harsh and hard to watch. Her dragging the baby out there was dumb and senseless in the plot except as a red herring.

For one thing having Sam's son return after nearly 20 years likely stirs up bad feelings for Annalise as does many of her memories of life with Sam. Secondly if it was an illegal adoption it puts her professional reputation at risk. She only just got back on track after Sam's murder, her drinking and being framed for Wes's death. She's riding high on her supreme court wins and being back teaching at Middleton.  I think ultimately the answer to this will be once we find out who Frank has been talking to.

Who could Frank be talking to:

1. Sandrine - I don't know how much digging she did on Annalise & Wes. Maybe Frank helped her disappear after the fight she had with Laurel.Still I'm not sure even she would have an interest in an illegal adoption that Annalise  did 20 years ago.

2. Eve - As her off and on lover and confidant, I could see Annaise confiding in Eve about an illegal adoption that Sam coerced her into doing. I can also imagine Eve not telling anyone, but having Frank keep tabs on him when he reappeared. I have no idea if Famke is interested in returning to the show, but I'd love it if this was the one they went with.

3. Sylvia Mahoney - I always go the impression she was the one calling the shots. I can also see her doing some digging as a sort of revenge for them falsely accusing Charles and Wes's death. What I can't see if Frank willingly reporting to her.

4. Hannah Keating - She might be aware of her brother's serial cheating and have kept tabs on her nephew. However, like Sylvia, I can't see Frank reporting to her willingly.

5. Wild Card, to be named later.  I'd hate this solution. However it's not improbable that the writer's would introduce an unknown character as someone that Frank has been answering to in regards to Gabriel.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Milaxx

[Annber03]

I think the other, perhaps bigger, reason Annalise is concerned about Gabriel showing up is, if he's got that close of ties to Sam, he's probably going to have some deeper knowledge of the stuff she's tried to cover up from the time of Sam's death onward, and, depending on how long Gabriel's kept tabs on her since then, the things she and the students have done these past few years as well. All that effort to keep all the shady things the group did under wraps at risk of falling apart? Yeah, I'd be a little scared, too, if I were her. 

[Milaxx]

On 11/17/2018 at 5:42 AM, quinni224 said:

Does anyone know where I can get this palmistry shirt that Annalise was wearing, or something similar? 

tweet Lyn Paolo on twitter. She's the costume designer on the show. She can tell you.

[Neurochick]

Forget Nate beating the shit our of Miller and Bonnie finishing the job that was bad but....

Asher actually hit a new low and I didn’t think that was possible.

[possibilities]

8 hours ago, Milaxx said:

I could see Annaise confiding in Eve about an illegal adoption that Frank coerced her into doing

I think you mean Sam coerced her (not Frank).

[Coxfires]

That was...Meh.

Wedding was fine if not a tad sappy for my stone cold heart but ok.

Gabriel is Sam son : fine with me. Not sure where it will go but why not.

Nate blungeons Miller and Bonnie finished him? Bad. I see  what they wanted to do: like father like son with Nate, a somewhat ok guy who loses it ; and Bonnie forced To kill a Man who loved her (cashing on Liza Weil's talent) but this just rings false and forced.

I too would be up for more AK, Tegan and Connor.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Coxfires
Typos

[helenamonster]

One thing I keep thinking about re: who is Frank talking about Gabriel is that when he made his first phone call last season, he said "Her kid is here." Now, obviously, last season they had no idea who Gabriel was going to be yet (probably maybe Bonnie or Annalise's) but now that they decided he's Sam's, Frank has to be talking to somebody who is closer to Vivian Maddox than they are to Sam.

This is what is making me lean more towards Vivian being a mistress and not Sam's wife. People talk differently about a child between two married or at least exclusive/committed people than they do about a child between a man and a woman who is not his wife/public-facing significant other. It's her kid, not his or theirs. He may or may not write a check every month but either way it's hers.

So there is also the possibility he could be talking to somebody ostensibly closer to Sam (like Hannah Keating) and by saying "her kid" they would know what he means.

[quinni224]

On 11/19/2018 at 1:40 PM, Milaxx said:

tweet Lyn Paolo on twitter. She's the costume designer on the show. She can tell you.

Thank you @Milaxx. I did what you said and got an answer from Lyn. I really appreciate your help. :) 

[Chairperson Meow]

On 11/16/2018 at 6:15 PM, Milaxx said:

I don't think Gabriel is from his first marriage.  Mother's name is listed as Vivian Maddox, not Keating. I think this was another inappropriate affair and Sam had Annalise orchestrate a black market adoption. Frank found ID for him under another name in that duffle. I'm wondering of Frank is speaking with Hannah or maybe Eve.

I think what prompted it was that Bonnie was triggered by the fight she and Miller had. He called her abuse "her issues" and then verbally attacked Annalise. On top of that you add in all the evidence that points to Miller having set Nate Sr up to die and I'm not even slightly surprised she finished him off. Just like with Rebecca, Bonnie is willing to do what it takes to protect Annalise and by extension the K5. From where she stood, Miller was a threat to them all.  He had to go.

I go back and forth as to whether Annalise was curious about Gabriel. On the one had if she did orchestrate and black market adoption she might not suspect him because she would have known the child by the other name. Jack something. (I'll have to go back and get that.) On the other hand, why else would she let a 2L into a class she specifically said was for 3L and above. Keep your enemies closer? 

I think we will always have flashbacks of Sam. Dying means nothing on a tv show. The dad from Six Feet Under died in like the 2 episode and was on the show for the entire run. 

I think the reason why they showed Nate losing and brutally beating him was to parallel his father. One of the underlying threads of this show appears to be "Sins of the father". Pretty much all of them have trouble relationships with their parent, especially their fathers. 

I'm not sure if we'll get back to Sandrine's fate this season. I'm pretty sure we'll get who had Nate Sr. killed, and who is Gabriel. In the middle of that I see the season ending with AK becoming a partner at C & G after helping Emmett clear his name.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Governor didn't use him to set up Nate. Last season I wasn't sure if he was a good guy, then this season just as I was beginning to think he was a nice guy, he went off on Bonnie and brought up all that AK being a bad person stuff. I get the impression he may just be  nice guy getting used.

I think Annalise is upset because this was an illegal adoption/cover up. Gabriel is probably the child of someone else Sam had an affair with who popped up with this child and Sam had her get him adopted out and they covered up the entire thing. Annalise is just getting her career back on track, word that she orchestrated and illegal adoption, a secret she thought was dead and buried, is not the hit she wants. Especially not while she's reeling from Sr's death.

The showed Sam laying in a pool of blood and Rebecca whimpering and begging for air as Bonnie smothered her.

Please look beyond skin color. Wes is tall (6'4"), thin and lanky. Gabriel is not. He's much shorter and has a more muscular upper body  (5'9 - 6ft depending on the website you check). They look NOTHING alike except for being brown. This is starting to remind me of season 3 when Asher almost got his butt kicked because he touched another woman thinking it was Micheala and other than being Black the woman looked nothing like Michaela.

 

Overall I enjoyed this episode. I knew Sam was involved somehow because Tom Verica had posted on twitter a while back that he was on set filming. 

Poor Connor. His parents are a mess. Still other than seeing his mom getting "alphabetted" by Asher, the wedding seem to go smoothly for them. The sad thing is I get the impression that Connor's mom's acting out was nothing new.

Asher pissed me off, twice. Once for what he did with Connor's mom and then the second time for having the nerve to look wistfully at Micheala while Oliver was singing to Connor.

So who is Frank talking to?  I almost want to say it's Hannah. Frank's sister knew Hannah and got Frank involved in getting him out of prison. My only issue with that is Hannah hates Annalise. If she knew about an illegal adoption, I'm sure she would have used it against Annalise. Maybe Eve? Annaise would have confided in Eve. But why would Eve be talking to Frank? To keep tabs on Annalise from afar since Eve went off to be with another woman? Maybe. Unless it's a yet unknown character Eve make the most sense to me. 

As for Gabriel himself, I don't think he's up to any good. Otherwise he would have told Annalise who he is. My guess is this is a child who's mom popped up kid in toe and surprised Sam. Perhaps just as he was up for tenure. Maybe she's a former patient with a substance abuse problem. Sam had Annalise arrange an illegal adoption to whisk the child away and the mother was put away somewhere or paid off. That second ID he has may be why Annalise didn't recognize the name. I'm not sure if it's blackmail or revenge he's after.

No, for me, it's the bone structure, the way they hold their faces, and that the guy obviously seems to be directed to act like Wes.  There's a resemblance.  Hell, some sites call him Knock Off Wes.  

[Milaxx]

You mean the high cheek bones that Gab has and Wes doesn't. Or the fact that the show literally morphed Gab into Sam?

[possibilities]

12 hours ago, quinni224 said:

Thank you @Milaxx. I did what you said and got an answer from Lyn. I really appreciate your help. :) 

What was the answer?

I think Gabe looks and acts like Wes the way that Simon looked and acted like Frank, Connor, Oliver, Asher, and Nate. I see zero resemblance.

[NUguy514]

3 hours ago, Chairperson Meow said:

No, for me, it's the bone structure, the way they hold their faces, and that the guy obviously seems to be directed to act like Wes.  There's a resemblance.  Hell, some sites call him Knock Off Wes.  

What bone structure?  The bone structure that gives Gabriel a very wide face and Wes a very long face?

I posted photos of each actor in the last episode's thread and would really love to know what the resemblance is.  http://forums.previously.tv/topic/75745-s05e07-i-got-played/?do=findComment&comment=4831823

[FormerMod-a1]

Even at a macro level they do not look alike to me - their head shapes are different and while thin/fit their body shapes are different.  So even if just a silouhette they are not similar.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 11/16/2018 at 9:52 PM, KaveDweller said:

Gabriel is shady, but I don't think having his birth certificate in a lock box is weird. I keep mine in a lock box with various other important papers.  

I agree the baby is likely not from Sam's first marriage. Annalise would have likely know the name of the kid. Even if  Sam didn't have a relationship with him, the ex would likely have gotten child support. So it is likely the result of an affair while he was with Annalise, possibly one she didn't even know about.

I guess they thought Nate was the one who has done the least amount of murder-related crimes and needed to catch up.

I don't know why Miller would have been on a pay phone,  but I am almost positive he is innocent of arranging Nate Sr's death.

If Gabriel was adopted, there'd be no child support. Sam would have been liable child support for a child born outside of his marriage, too. Only relinquishing his parental rights such as in an adoption would change that. Maybe the adoption is another story? 

. 

[love2lovebadtv]

So, to bring up another way the show confuses us: birth certificates in the US have the mother's original name - in addition to or sometimes instead of any last name she may have adopted through marriage. For example, if Sam's wife was born with the name Vivian Maddox and she married/divorced /changed her last name 5 times, the birth certificates of any of her kids will still say Vivian Maddox, regardless of the father or whether she was married. There are plenty of women who don't change their names when they get married, and you're not obligated to give your kids their dad's last name. 

I think the show is using this birth certificate name to trip us up. 

[rubyred]

The only thing about Gabriel that's tripping me up is why did Frank recognize his name, while Annalise evidently didn't? Why/how does Frank know more about "the adoption" than Annalise? But otherwise there's no there there for me with Gabriel. 

[love2lovebadtv]

15 minutes ago, rubyred said:

The only thing about Gabriel that's tripping me up is why did Frank recognize his name, while Annalise evidently didn't? Why/how does Frank know more about "the adoption" than Annalise? But otherwise there's no there there for me with Gabriel. 

Shoot. Another monkey wrench. Plus, frank wasn't sure Gabriel knew who he was until he saw the birth certificate right? So then Gabriel was probably adopted but has gotten his hands on his original birth certificate. I hope this show has a good answer for every one of these plot holes.