"The View": Week Of 10/29/2018

[General Days]

4 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

We know from the past (when one of the co-hosts accidentally referred to Elisabeth as "Bitsy") that either someone in the production crew or a panelist reads these forums regularly.  I wonder if instead of writing the suits at ABC there was a way to get one of the more level-headed panelists (Joy or Sunny) to read this thread.  If they knew how those of us not in the 37% really feel about this show, it might finally lead to a change.

 

I wonder if they know we're here. I suspect TWoP had industry-type readers that didn't make the leap to Previously.TV. 

 

I wanted to put this next section above the first quote, but I forgot to type it out, before I inserted the quotes, and I can't get a cursor above the top quote.

 

Is today's episode up anywhere? I never seem to find it.

Never mind. I found it, thanks to @blondiec0332's link from yesterday.

I didn't tune in until most of the way through Tyler Perry's segment, then my mother called, so I missed that too.

One thing I did notice when my mother was talking, Sunny chose a pumpkin decorated by her research producer. Recently, Meghan talked about "my producers" so maybe they each have some (individually) dedicated production staff.

 

54 minutes ago, backformore said:

Meghan, in the first segment, talked about the STEREOTYPE of dems wanting open borders, and how it's an exaggeration. 

But, isn't that what she has repeated over and over again? That dems want open borders??

 

Yes. All the damn time.

 

45 minutes ago, ari333 said:

Tyler mentioned the Black woman at the table, the Latina and the Jew all comforting MM. Who is Jewish? Not that it matters, but I am nosy.

 

 

40 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

He probably assumed Joy is Jewish because of her last name.

 

Years ago, I perceived Joy as Jewish, because of her last name (this was before I watched The View, just when she was a comedian), and because of her New York accent. I'm pretty sure she's said on the show that everyone thinks she is Jewish.

 

22 minutes ago, Jewell2 said:

Meghan said it was a hoax- someone on a cruise made a sex tape - big deal.  I thought she can’t talk about sex.  She used to get all flustered about it.  She would get embarrassed and scream “I’m not talking about sex”. But lately she’s talking about how wild she was when she was younger and doesn’t think anyone should be slut shamed.  Which is it?   Also, she chose that pumpkin because it was political?   Good Lord 

 

I think Meghan mostly objects to the sex discussions in which they're expected to give opinions or share anecdotes that tie into their personal lives and their own experiences.

With religious in-laws, I can understand why she doesn't want to go TMI, but I wish she'd just shut up. There are plenty of segments where the other hosts don't chime in, or don't chime in much. Meghan really wants this show to turn into The View with Meghan McCain and that she must weigh in, even if it's just to screech that she doesn't want to talk about this topic. It was amusing the first time, but now it's just another thing that sets my teeth on edge. 

Edited October 30, 2018 by General Days

[PradaKitty]

If they removed the words I ME and MY from the English language Meghan woildn’t Be able to talk at all..,

[backformore]

16 minutes ago, General Days said:

With religious in-laws, I can understand why she doesn't want to go TMI, but I wish she'd just shut up. There are plenty of segments where the other hosts don't chime in, or don't chime in much. Meghan really wants this show to turn into The View with Meghan McCain and that she must weigh in, even if it's just to screech that she doesn't want to talk about this topic. It was amusing the first time, but now it's just another thing that sets my teeth on edge. 

Yes.  "I don't want to talk about sex!"    and "I don't have any children!"  are reasons to be quiet and let others talk.  Not screech over them that you don't have anything to say.  Just shut up.  

[Former Nun]

22 minutes ago, General Days said:

Years ago, I perceived Joy as Jewish, because of her last name (this was before I watched The View, just when she was a comedian), and because of her New York accent. I'm pretty sure she's said on the show that everyone thinks she is Jewish.

Catholic and Italian by birth.    Jewish by injection?

Edited October 30, 2018 by Former Nun

[Former Nun]

1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:

I think that Joy has a lot of pull over at ABC.  

I HOPE. I HOPE. I HOPE. I HOPE.   (I also sent a long email to Robert Iger at Disney yesterday).

 

1 hour ago, Winston Wolfe said:

But she isn't an alcoholic, just gets drunk at the drop of a hat, lol.

My alcoholic ex-husband claimed to NOT be an alcoholic because, "I've never missed a day of work."    Alcoholic dementia contributed to his death.   I suggest The View have an expert on alcoholism as a guest...and NOT on View Your Deal Day!

[Apprentice79]

30 minutes ago, General Days said:

Years ago, I perceived Joy as Jewish, because of her last name (this was before I watched The View, just when she was a comedian), and because of her New York accent. I'm pretty sure she's said on the show that everyone thinks she is Jewish.

Anti-Semites have sent hate towards Joy because of her perceived Jewishness.  

[Medicine Crow]

59 minutes ago, njbchlover said:

Yes...it did sound dismissive, but that was because of Meghan's usual dismissive tone of voice.  If only she could sound a little more sincere, it would go a long way.

I loved Stacey Abrams' response about the guns, and that she grew up learning to shoot, enjoys trap shooting and target shooting (I guess that may have surprised Meghan), but since she eats mostly chicken, she thinks that shooting for food would be just cruel.  That cracked me up!  

Actually, she said it would be "mean" to shoot a chicken.  That cracked me up too!!!

[backformore]

I think Meghan comes to each show with an agenda, possibly handed to her by her husband.   Yesterday it was to advance the "hatred of Jews on both sides" agenda.   Today, it was about trying to make Stacey Abrams admit that she wants to confiscate guns from people.   Meg comes in, guns loaded, so to speak, ready to fire at her perceived enemy, but nobody will cooperate.  Yesterday they changed the topic from hatred to guns, today the "dem who wants to take away your guns" says she is a gun owner herself.  

I think Meghan comes across as angry all the time because she is so frustrated that her tactics aren't working.  She wants people to understand that the good guys are "the party of my sainted father" and the bad guys are "those hateful liberals who want open borders and no guns."  But she can't get her message of lies across because those damn liberals are not cooperating! 

[fatewemake]

So, let me guess...  Cookie Monster was just fine until he listened to Meghan too long and tossed his cookies.

Edited October 30, 2018 by fatewemake

[bannana]

How come Meggie didn't attack Abby when she said wealthy Russians come to the US to have their babies and get citizenship and the funny part is that THEY STAY AT TRUMP PROPERTIES?  Meggie should have been outraged that Abby turned a conversation about the 14th amendment into a slag at Trump.

BTW, I did not know that Meggie's husband was a staunch constitutionalist.

[CheezyXpressed]

I still want to know the rest of Abby's story involving a pimp in her sister's hotel room. The rest didn't let her speak until the end and then Whoopi went to a commercial.

[PradaKitty]

Every time I see the ladies walk to the table at the beginning of the show with Meghan leading the way I secretly hope they let Meghan walk out and none of the others follow her! 

[General Days]

56 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

Catholic and Italian.

 

Yes, I know. I just mean my first impression when I saw Joy on Comedy Central (remember when they used to have stand-up comedy on the comedy channel?), or wherever.

I think she's referenced being a Roman Catholic Italian quite a few times recently (particularly when the Mooch was a guest, and after her apology about her Pence joke), but it seems that hasn't trickled out into the larger world (not that I expect Tyler Perry is sitting home watching The View all that much).

I'm just not surprised when people who don't know do make that mistake, because I made the same mistake.

When I hear some New York accents (is Joy from Brooklyn maybe?), and the speaker is white and not Hispanic, I tend to figure they're either of Italian or Jewish heritage (I know being Jewish is not an ethnicity).

And I just realized while typing this I have a harder time figuring this stuff out with women. I wonder why that is. Maybe because (fictional) TV and film stock male Italian New Yorker and stock male Jewish New Yorker characters have stronger tropes than do female Jewish or Italian New Yorker characters.

 

43 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

Anti-Semites have sent hate towards Joy because of her perceived Jewishness.  

 

Ugh. Sometimes the feeling that our country is already gone, and there's no hope just washes over me. This is one of those times. 

 

46 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

I HOPE. I HOPE. I HOPE. I HOPE.   (I also sent a long email to Robert Iger at Disney yesterday).

 

My alcoholic ex-husband claimed to NOT be an alcoholic because, "I've never missed a day of work."    Alcoholic dementia contributed to his death.   I suggest The View have an expert on alcoholism as a guest...and NOT on View Your Deal Day!

 

Good for you for sending the letter! Did you send snail mail or an email?

There are two reasons I think Meghan might not be an alcoholic.

1. She talks about drinking a lot, and I'd think with her mother's addiction history, she'd already be actively covering up her drinking if she was already in trouble
2. I tend to like alcoholics (when they're not actively drunk, and even more so when they're in recovery), and I don't like Miss Meghan

That said, she is pretty immature for her age. Based on the behavior she exhibits on the show, she hasn't matured much past what you'd expect from a teenager. With real addicts, maturation generally stops at the age they start actively using their drug/s (including alcohol). 

 

20 minutes ago, bannana said:

How come Meggie didn't attack Abby when she said wealthy Russians come to the US to have their babies and get citizenship and the funny part is that THEY STAY AT TRUMP PROPERTIES?  Meggie should have been outraged that Abby turned a conversation about the 14th amendment into a slag at Trump.

BTW, I did not know that Meggie's husband was a staunch constitutionalist.

 

I want to know how come lightweight Abby Huntsman knows that about Trump, but reporters don't freaking ask him about that.

Meghan really should talk more about herself, don't you think, bananna? She's so reticent to do so. 

 

56 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

Catholic and Italian by birth.    Jewish by injection?

 

 

Oh! You got saucy after I quoted you. It's clear why you're a former nun. 

I know Joy has said she loves Jewish men. 

Edited October 30, 2018 by General Days

[Tanichka]

1 hour ago, lookeyloo said:

And her current husband

So - Jewish by marriage?  Who thinks about this when they see someone.  It doesn’t cross my mind.  I don’t know why Tyler would mention this!

[Jaded]

5 minutes ago, CheezyXpressed said:

I still want to know the rest of Abby's story involving a pimp in her sister's hotel room. The rest didn't let her speak until the end and then Whoopi went to a commercial.

Quote

Liddy has a history of complicating her father’s political life. When Huntsman was running for governor of Utah, in 2004, Liddy, then sixteen, began seeing the son of his Democratic opponent. The night before the election, Huntsman found his daughter at her computer engaged in a tearful instant-messaging chat with the boy, Briggs Matheson. “My dad was, like, ‘What is going on?’ ” Liddy said. “I’m, like, ‘You can’t win, Dad. Briggs says his life is over if you win.’ ” Huntsman sat down at his daughter’s computer and, pretending to be her, consoled the distraught boy over I.M. (The next day, he crushed Briggs’s father at the polls.)

Another incident took place the night before the family was to appear at the White House for President Obama’s announcement of Huntsman’s ambassadorship. Liddy awoke in her hotel room at dawn to find a strange man hovering over her. At first, she pretended to be asleep, and he left. But when he returned with two scantily dressed women she ran out the door and down to her parents’ room. “A pimp and two hookers just broke into my room!” she said. Her dad’s response has become family legend: “Liddy, this is the most important day of my life, and you’ve ruined it!”

These are a couple of paragraph's from a "New Yorker" article dated Nov. 2011 that was written about the Huntsman sisters.

[blondiec0332]

5 minutes ago, General Days said:

That said, she is pretty immature for her age. Based on the behavior she exhibits on the show, she hasn't matured much past what you'd expect from a teenager. With real addicts, maturation generally stops at the age they start actively using their drug/s (including alcohol). 

This is true.  My son started using drugs when he was a teenager and even though he has been clean for over six years he still has the maturity of a teenager.

 

7 minutes ago, General Days said:

Ugh. Sometimes the feeling that our country is already gone, and there's no hope just washes over me. This is one of those times. 

Me too but we can't give up the good fight.

[CheezyXpressed]

4 minutes ago, Jaded said:

These are a couple of paragraph's from a "New Yorker" article dated Nov. 2011 that was written about the Huntsman sisters.

Thank you!

Quote

Her dad’s response has become family legend: “Liddy, this is the most important day of my life, and you’ve ruined it!”

This probably sounds horrible, but coming from a family with more than one kid this sounds about right.

[blondiec0332]

8 minutes ago, CheezyXpressed said:

Quote

Her dad’s response has become family legend: “Liddy, this is the most important day of my life, and you’ve ruined it!”

This probably sounds horrible, but coming from a family with more than one kid this sounds about right.

My immediate thought was he said it with humor.

[CheezyXpressed]

2 minutes ago, blondiec0332 said:

My immediate thought was he said it with humor.

Oh absolutely. It sounds like a father who has seen his kids go through a bunch of stuff and isn't surprised by anything his kids do anymore.

Edited October 30, 2018 by CheezyXpressed

[jumper sage]

39 minutes ago, CheezyXpressed said:

I still want to know the rest of Abby's story involving a pimp in her sister's hotel room.

Me too.  Oops found it.  Thanks @Jaded.

28 minutes ago, blondiec0332 said:

36 minutes ago, General Days said:

Ugh. Sometimes the feeling that our country is already gone, and there's no hope just washes over me. This is one of those times. 

Me too but we can't give up the good fight.

Count me in as feeling like the two of you.

29 minutes ago, Jaded said:

These are a couple of paragraph's from a "New Yorker" article dated Nov. 2011 that was written about the Huntsman sisters.

I like Abby so much more now.

So MM said she drinks and shoots?  Hope it's not at the same time.  Being drunk on a shooting range is very dangerous.  She does mention drinking A LOT.  Having guns and drinking is not a good combo.

Edited October 30, 2018 by jumper sage

[General Days]

11 minutes ago, Tanichka said:

So - Jewish by marriage?  Who thinks about this when they see someone.  It doesn’t cross my mind.  I don’t know why Tyler would mention this!

 

So, when you watch an American TV show, and a white guy has dark hair, a tan, dresses a little snazzy, maybe wears some gold, and acts a little macho, do you form no impression that the character is Italian-American?

When you watch a movie, and the blond, blue-eyed woman in tennis whites is going sailing after her riding lesson, do you not perceive her as a WASP?

I don't think there's anything wrong with having an impression of someone (including their possible background). We form them without thinking, because that's how our brains work. What's wrong is thinking a person is better or worse because of their ethnicity or religion, or that you know anything deeper about them, because of their race, ethnicity, or religion. 

So, I don't think Tyler Perry's gaffe is a "think like that" situation, particularly since he was trying to point out that it's important that Americans of all stripes come together.

There's nothing wrong with thinking Joy is Jewish (except of course that that's incorrect) or Italian. There's something wrong with thinking less of her because of that. And there's everything sick about sending her hate mail because of that.

Humans are hard-wired to look for patterns. That's how we figured out that while that plant is delicious, that other one will kill you. 

My husband is of Italian and Irish descent, but he's very fair, so when we first met, until I learned his last name, he was slotted in my brain as Irish-American (and not at all Italian).

I also thought he probably came from a family with a little money (i.e. a middle class family who was better off my my barely middle class family). I was dead wrong on that one, too. More's the pity.

 

9 minutes ago, blondiec0332 said:

This is true.  My son started using drugs when he was a teenager and even though he has been clean for over six years he still has the maturity of a teenager.

 

Me too but we can't give up the good fight.

 

I'm so happy your son is clean. That's hard work. Good for him. Have you noticed an increase in maturity since he's been in recovery? (Also, boys mature so differently from girls, it's harder to tell sometimes, imo as a mother of both.)

[AdeleDazeem]

5 minutes ago, General Days said:

 

So, when you watch an American TV show, and a white guy has dark hair, a tan, dresses a little snazzy, maybe wears some gold, and acts a little macho, do you form no impression that the character is Italian-American?

When you watch a movie, and the blond, blue-eyed woman in tennis whites is going sailing after her riding lesson, do you not perceive her as a WASP?

I don't think there's anything wrong with having an impression of someone (including their possible background). We form them without thinking, because that's how our brains work. What's wrong is thinking a person is better or worse because of their ethnicity or religion, or that you know anything deeper about them, because of their race, ethnicity, or religion. 

So, I don't think Tyler Perry's gaffe is a "think like that" situation, particularly since he was trying to point out that it's important that Americans of all stripes come together.

There's nothing wrong with thinking Joy is Jewish (except of course that that's incorrect) or Italian. There's something wrong with thinking less of her because of that. And there's everything sick about sending her hate mail because of that.

Humans are hard-wired to look for patterns. That's how we figured out that while that plant is delicious, that other one will kill you. 

My husband is of Italian and Irish descent, but he's very fair, so when we first met, until I learned his last name, he was slotted in my brain as Irish-American (and not at all Italian).

I also thought he probably came from a family with a little money (i.e. a middle class family who was better off my my barely middle class family). I was dead wrong on that one, too. More's the pity.

 

 

I'm so happy your son is clean. That's hard work. Good for him. Have you noticed an increase in maturity since he's been in recovery? (Also, boys mature so differently from girls, it's harder to tell sometimes, imo as a mother of both.)

Yeah. There is. Or, rather, asserting it.

Edited October 30, 2018 by AdeleDazeem

[backformore]

I'm not sure Meghan is an alcoholic.   I think that when she was younger, she thought of herself as looking like a beautiful blonde princess, but once you got to know her, you realize she's a "down-home tough whiskey-drinking, gun-toting chick." And then you're supposed to be surprised by how she can be so opposite of your first impression! 

I've known women like this all my life.  They try to impress the guys by embracing beer, whiskey, football, anything stereotypically masculine, while still looking feminine.   It's also her way of denouncing her rich upper-class background, and pretending to identify with "middle America" whatever the hell that is.  

Now that she's older, she's no longer the beautiful princess.  (yes, she was very pretty not so long ago), and the "tough broad" schtick just makes her seem desperate to define herself.  she doesn't realize that "drink whiskey and shoot guns"  and "get drunk and get tattoos"  makes her sound like the asshole she is. 

And,  people drink, but don't talk about it all the time, as though WHAT you drink defines WHO you are.   I like a margarita, but I don't define myself as a "tough tequila-swilling old broad,"  because I'm also the "sensitive sophisticated cabernet sipping elegant lady."  Except when I'm not.  

Edited October 30, 2018 by backformore

[Former Nun]

32 minutes ago, General Days said:

So, when you watch an American TV show, and a white guy has dark hair, a tan, dresses a little snazzy, maybe wears some gold, and acts a little macho, do you form no impression that the character is Italian-American?

This has been a long-time complaint of Joy's.

[blondiec0332]

37 minutes ago, General Days said:

I'm so happy your son is clean. That's hard work. Good for him. Have you noticed an increase in maturity since he's been in recovery? (Also, boys mature so differently from girls, it's harder to tell sometimes, imo as a mother of both.)

General Days I'm going to send you a PM.

[GoldenGirl90]

9 minutes ago, backformore said:

And,  people drink, but don't talk about it all the time, as though WHAT you drink defines WHO you are.   I like a margarita, but I don't define myself as a "tough tequila-swilling old broad,"  because I'm also the "sensitive sophisticated cabernet sipping elegant lady."  Except when I'm not.  

Yep. I'm not bothered that she drinks either but she talks about it so much and then acts surprised when an article highlights her drinking habits. She might not be an alcoholic but based on her comments today and most other days, it's a big part of her identity as a "tough chick."

[blondiec0332]

1 minute ago, Alexis2291 said:

Yep. I'm not bothered that she drinks either but she talks about it so much and then acts surprised when an article highlights her drinking habits. She might not be an alcoholic but based on her comments today and most other days, it's a big part of her identity as a "tough chick."

 

13 minutes ago, backformore said:

I'm not sure Meghan is an alcoholic.   I think that when she was younger, she thought of herself as looking like a beautiful blonde princess, but once you got to know her, you realize she's a "down-home tough whiskey-drinking, gun-toting chick." And then you're supposed to be surprised by how she can be so opposite of your first impression! 

It's Meghan's perception that drinking makes her cool or a "real American" or a ball buster or whatever that is the problem.  From how she describes her drinking it's not like she enjoys a glass of wine with dinner.  She talks about drinking to excess.  And not when she was younger but recently.  She might not be an alcoholic but she does sound like a binge drinker who can't handle her alcohol.

[General Days]

9 minutes ago, AdeleDazeem said:

Yeah. There is. Or, rather, asserting it.

 

Even in the given context? 

What is wrong with it, apart from the fact that he presumed incorrectly (in other words, I'm asking about the "bad" sense of "wrong" rather than the "incorrect" sense of wrong)?

If he had drawn conclusions about Joy's character based on her heritage (or his own incorrect presumption thereof) I would be standing right next to you, carrying a "What @AdeleDazeem said," but here's what Perry said:

 

Quote

 

TYLER PERRY: Can I just say this before we start? [...] There's been a lot of healthy debate at this table. There are a lot of strong women around this table. You know, after your father, the great John McCain passed, there was something that I witnessed, that the country witnessed -- everybody that watches this show. Everybody rallied around you. You weren't here that day, but they spoke of how -- they rallied around her -- and the love.

So, we've got a black woman, a Latino woman, Jewish--everybody rallying around you, to hold you up, to make sure that you're great and strong. And I think that that is the heart of what America is. (Something something) all coming together. Having healthy debates--having healthy debates, but standing with each other to show our love and compassion, and I just thought it was a beautiful moment...

 

 

 

So he incorrectly identified someone as Jewish, but he was using identities to encourage inclusiveness, healthy debate, love, and support.

The point of what he was saying is (in my opinion), is: Despite all the differences between you all, you came together, and that's important.

That he was incorrect about what one of those differences is, to me, isn't anything deeper than a mistake, given the context. 

 

12 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

This has been a long-time complaint of Joy's.

 

Yes, and that could grow into a way off-topic conversation (and too political for here), because then we get into when characterization crosses the line into an excuse to throw around stereotypes.

By the same token, I don't recall Joy complaining when people have assumed she's Jewish. It seems to me she is amused so many people make the same mistake, but I don't recall her taking offense.

To me, if that mistaken assumption pissed her off, I'd start wondering what she found insulting about someone thinking she could be Jewish and why.

If she were offended people think she's Jewish, I'd wonder if she wasn't somehow antisemitic. I wouldn't know how else to take a "How dare you think I'm Jewish" response? 

[GoldenGirl90]

10 minutes ago, blondiec0332 said:

She might not be an alcoholic but she does sound like a binge drinker who can't handle her alcohol.

She's talked about throwing up from drinking several times on the show. And you're right, it wasn't when she was younger or anything, she was talking about recently.

[Ladyrain]

19 hours ago, Bronzedog said:

The level of professionalism between Joy and Nutmeg was glaring today, too.  After their little tiff, Joy went on smiling and participating during the rest of the show.  Meanwhile, Mount Rushmore Meg sat with her arms crossed, silent, and, glaring, all while trying to decide the most opportune moment to scream, "MY FATHER DIED!!!"

That has to be the way she was raised.  Entitled bitch.  She was allowed to shriek and pout and hissy-fit her ass all over hell and get away with it.  That behavior, that response, is completely ingrained in her.  And what's worse, she's proud of it. 

[A.J.]

13 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

Whoopi truly has inherited Baba Walters pointless word salads that stall/hijack every good conversation/discussion (at least when Meghan's pouting with her thumb in her mouth).

Speaking of Barbara, I often wonder if she was still on the show would Meghan be allowed to be such a terror.  I have a feeling that if Barbara was still around we'd see a different Meghan or Meghan would have been shown the door.   

[AdeleDazeem]

38 minutes ago, General Days said:

 

Even in the given context? 

What is wrong with it, apart from the fact that he presumed incorrectly (in other words, I'm asking about the "bad" sense of "wrong" rather than the "incorrect" sense of wrong)?

If he had drawn conclusions about Joy's character based on her heritage (or his own incorrect presumption thereof) I would be standing right next to you, carrying a "What @AdeleDazeem said," but here's what Perry said:

 

 

So he incorrectly identified someone as Jewish, but he was using identities to encourage inclusiveness, healthy debate, love, and support.

The point of what he was saying is (in my opinion), is: Despite all the differences between you all, you came together, and that's important.

That he was incorrect about what one of those differences is, to me, isn't anything deeper than a mistake, given the context. 

 

 

Yes, and that could grow into a way off-topic conversation (and too political for here), because then we get into when characterization crosses the line into an excuse to throw around stereotypes.

By the same token, I don't recall Joy complaining when people have assumed she's Jewish. It seems to me she is amused so many people make the same mistake, but I don't recall her taking offense.

To me, if that mistaken assumption pissed her off, I'd start wondering what she found insulting about someone thinking she could be Jewish and why.

If she were offended people think she's Jewish, I'd wonder if she wasn't somehow antisemitic. I wouldn't know how else to take a "How dare you think I'm Jewish" response? 

We all have preconceptions, misconceptions and thoughts.   It's human. We try to do better. BUT, he, outright, perpetuated a stereotype.  What was his assumption based on? Did she state she's Jewish? Ever? (that was what was assumed and used as an excuse in Germany, France and other countries in the 30s and 40s) That's not okay. Unless it's your people, you'd better tread softly. 

Regarding what I bolded in your post, that's a false equivalence. I don't suggest she should be offended, however, Jews could very well be offended  by her that she feels there's a stereotype  she fits.  If you don't understand the difference, I can't help you. I don't mean this in a snarky way. 

Edited October 30, 2018 by AdeleDazeem
Typo

[pianogirl73]

4 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

Guns, guns, guns, guns and she tried to filet Stacey Abrams with her gotcha questions. I am happy that Stacey said that you can be a gun lover and want sensible gun control. Why is that so hard for Megan to understand.  What a nasty piece of work! 

Somebody definitely spoke to Megan, she is being very deferential to Joy. I think that Joy has a lot of pull over at ABC.  

Well, thank God for that!

[Tosia]

55 minutes ago, Ladyrain said:

That has to be the way she was raised.  Entitled bitch.  She was allowed to shriek and pout and hissy-fit her ass all over hell and get away with it.  That behavior, that response, is completely ingrained in her.  And what's worse, she's proud of it. 

Can you imagine how horrible MM was/is to the "help" at the house?  

[Ladyrain]

Yes.  Yes, I can.

[Former Nun]

5 hours ago, General Days said:

By the same token, I don't recall Joy complaining when people have assumed she's Jewish. It seems to me she is amused so many people make the same mistake, but I don't recall her taking offense.

This is my thought too.   I think she and her parents were insulted by the Italian stereotypes--usually mob types. 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Former Nun

[General Days]

52 minutes ago, AdeleDazeem said:

We all have preconceptions, misconceptions and thoughts.   It's human. We try to do better. BUT, He, outright, perpetuated a stereotype.  What was his assumption based on? Did she state she's Jewish? Ever? (that was what was assumed and used as an excuse in Germany, France and other countries in the 30s and 40s) That's not okay. Unless it's your people, you'd better tread softly. 

 

I agree with your first three sentences.

I agree your fifth sentence (and beyond) is where things could have gotten dicey, had Perry been citing people's race, ethnicity, and/or religion as the preface to a different point.

I don't have a problem understanding anything you said except the stuff that's in bold above (and I'll qualify my question regarding the second bolded point, in #2 below). Since I don't know Perry's mind, I won't hazard a guess as to why he thought someone on the panel was Jewish.

1. What stereotype did Tyler Perry perpetuate? I think that's why I don't understand your point. A stereotype has a do-something or is-something attached to it. Let me leave race, ethnicity, and religion out of this and move to sex (my own) so I can be talking about a group of which I am a part.

"Women" is not a stereotype. "Women are too emotional" is a negative stereotype. "Women are more nurturing than men" is a positive stereotype, but is sometimes used against women in negative ways.

Perry didn't make a the-black-woman-supported-you-by-[black stereotype], the-Latina-woman-helped-you-by-[Latinx stereotype], the-Jewish-woman-showed-you-love-by-[Jewish stereotype] kind of statement.

Because I put his comments in quotes, what he said didn't get re-quoted in your post, so I'll just pull out the only thing he mentioned about this subject: "So, we've got a black woman, a Latino woman, Jewish--everybody rallying around you, to hold you up, to make sure that you're great and strong. And I think that that is the heart of what America is."

2. Setting aside that he was factually incorrect about Joy's heritage (which is awkward and embarrassing), how did Tyler Perry in any way not tread softly?

[Because it's hard to tell in text, please let me say I am trying understand. I'm not taking offense, and I am not trying to give you a hard time or offend you. For the record I don't think you're trying to give me a hard time, or offend me, either. I'm operating under the assumption this a good-faith conversation.]

Upon refreshing the page, I will add this:

 

Quote

Regarding what I bolded in your post, that's a false equivalence. I don't suggest she should be offended, however, Jews could very well be offended  by her that she feels there's a stereotype  she fits.  If you don't understand the difference, I can't help you. I don't mean this in a snarky way. 

 

No snark taken. I would apologize had I made a false equivalence about anything you said, but the thing you objected to wasn't even in response to you, and I wasn't saying you suggested that. At all.

That was the second part of my reply to @Former Nun 's response to me, in response to what I said to @Tanichka. And I could flesh out why I'm not apologizing to them, but I have already talked way too much here today, and the context is all in this thread.

In short:  Tanichka had asked something that I interpreted as being in the same sort of vein as (but not the same as) one of those "I don't see race/color/ethnicity/etc" statements. In response, I floated a stock Italian-American film/TV character and a stock sorority sister character, because I think we do see ethnicity, etc., it's just something we subconsciously use to slot people, until we get to know them. 

WRT to this though: "Jews could very well be offended  by her that she feels there's a stereotype  she fits" --  I don't know what this means. I don't know who the "her/she" is. 

 

Finally, because it's a long day and I'll end on this up note, it would be funny after this whole long conversation, if Tyler Perry had thought either Whoopi or Abby was the Jewish person.

[njbchlover]

4 hours ago, Medicine Crow said:

Actually, she said it would be "mean" to shoot a chicken.  That cracked me up too!!!

Yes, that's it!!  That's why I laughed!!  Thanks!  :-)

[JakeyJokes]

4 hours ago, bannana said:

How come Meggie didn't attack Abby when she said wealthy Russians come to the US to have their babies and get citizenship and the funny part is that THEY STAY AT TRUMP PROPERTIES?  Meggie should have been outraged that Abby turned a conversation about the 14th amendment into a slag at Trump.

BTW, I did not know that Meggie's husband was a staunch constitutionalist.

I had never heard that before and found it interesting! The narrative of birthright citizenship is still usually presented as the "anchor baby" concept. Good for Abby.

I found it interesting that when Meghan was saying how her father and Lindsay Graham were working in vain on immigration reform, they were protested by people from the far right -- a point I don't even think she realized she was making at first, so she had to throw in an "on both sides" comment (drink!). Graham, for his part, fully supports Trump's new idea, as you can't shame the shameless.

[Princess Sparkle]

Mod Note: Unless Meghan explicitly discusses her upbringing on the show, speculation about how she was raised, and how her parents contributed to that is off topic. Remember - if Meghan does not mention her parents on the show, they are not topics for discussion and should not be mentioned. Period.

[Wings]

2 hours ago, backformore said:

I'm not sure Meghan is an alcoholic.   I think that when she was younger, she thought of herself as looking like a beautiful blonde princess, but once you got to know her, you realize she's a "down-home tough whiskey-drinking, gun-toting chick." And then you're supposed to be surprised by how she can be so opposite of your first impression! 

I've known women like this all my life.  They try to impress the guys by embracing beer, whiskey, football, anything stereotypically masculine, while still looking feminine.   It's also her way of denouncing her rich upper-class background, and pretending to identify with "middle America" whatever the hell that is.  

Now that she's older, she's no longer the beautiful princess.  (yes, she was very pretty not so long ago), and the "tough broad" schtick just makes her seem desperate to define herself.  she doesn't realize that "drink whiskey and shoot guns"  and "get drunk and get tattoos"  makes her sound like the asshole she is. 

And,  people drink, but don't talk about it all the time, as though WHAT you drink defines WHO you are.   I like a margarita, but I don't define myself as a "tough tequila-swilling old broad,"  because I'm also the "sensitive sophisticated cabernet sipping elegant lady."  Except when I'm not.  

Good post, all of it.   The bold, exactly!

[DebbieM4]

On 10/29/2018 at 12:00 PM, Haleth said:

I think Whoopi was responding to Sunny asking how Daniel does an accent so well-- because he's an actor. It just came out a little harsher than it should have.  

 

 

I understood Whoopi's reaction, although it was a little harsher than it should have been.  I thought Sunny was carrying on way too much about the accent, as though it's unheard of for actors to be able to do that.  She made a very big deal about it, which I found annoying since I know many actors who easily go from one accent to another.   She just seemed too amazed, and it struck a nerve with me too.

Edited October 31, 2018 by DebbieM4

[DebbieM4]

On 10/29/2018 at 1:18 PM, After7Only said:

  

I took Whoopi interrupting Sunny with "Actor!!!" as more as a complement to Daniel Ratcliffe (saying he's a really good trained actor), than anything derogatory towards Sunny.   But then again I generally see the Whoopi/Sunny comments differently than others.   

Yes, I think she was saying that's part of being a good actor, and that it's not surprising for a good actor to be able to do that.

On 10/29/2018 at 2:31 PM, thejuicer said:

. Moving on though, Abby adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. She speaks in eternal cliches and platitudes. "I was putting my daughter to bed, she's so innocent, blah blah". What a waste of a hire. 

I agree.  She seems like a nice person, and she is clearly trying very hard to do a good job, but you're right - It's all cliches and platitudes.  After her first day, I referred to her here as Captain Obvious, and I haven't changed my mind.  She states the most obvious things as though they're brand new revelations.   I want to like her, but I don't think we're getting anything from her at all because she's just too bland and simplistic.

[Former Nun]

7 hours ago, backformore said:

I think Meghan comes across as angry all the time because she is so frustrated that her tactics aren't working.

Or maybe she's just angry all the time.  Wonder if the drinking makes it better or worse.

[TheGreenKnight]

5 hours ago, Tosia said:

Can you imagine how horrible MM was/is to the "help" at the house?  

I've always said that when McCain starts shrieking at the other ladies, she sounds just like a rich lady haranguing her servants.

[bannana]

2 hours ago, JakeyJokes said:

I had never heard that before and found it interesting! The narrative of birthright citizenship is still usually presented as the "anchor baby" concept. Good for Abby.

I found it interesting that when Meghan was saying how her father and Lindsay Graham were working in vain on immigration reform, they were protested by people from the far right -- a point I don't even think she realized she was making at first, so she had to throw in an "on both sides" comment (drink!). Graham, for his part, fully supports Trump's new idea, as you can't shame the shameless.

That reminds me, I didn't even understand the point she was making.  She blathered on about how she lived this, it has always been bad like this, caused she lived it, people camped out calling her dad and bastard uncle Jose McCain and Lindsey Gomez.

The discussion was whether Trump and Trumpians are using fear of the caravan to sway the vote next week. Then Meggie bemoaned the lack of immigration reform and went into her ramble.  Joy said that after the vote, Trump won't even mention it again.

Meggie just cannot make a salient point.

[babyhouseman]

9 hours ago, GiveMeSpace said:

Women who are married can't drink, shoot guns, or go anywhere-per Yosemite Meg.  Did not know that.

Ha. I've thought of Meghan stomping, having a hissy fit, and shooting off guns like Yosemite Sam. Instead she's fighting liberals instead of a rabbit.

6 hours ago, backformore said:

 I think that when she was younger, she thought of herself as looking like a beautiful blonde princess, but once you got to know her, you realize she's a "down-home tough whiskey-drinking, gun-toting chick." And then you're supposed to be surprised by how she can be so opposite of your first impression! 

 

She seems to be trying so hard to prove she's not a fragile, spoiled, rich princess, but a really tough woman wouldn't be so defensive. Knock that chip off your shoulder, Meghan, and calm down. 

[athousandclowns]

The only time I remember Joy bringing up / being upset  about a perceived stereotype  was The Jersey Shore crew. She did not like they were portrayed  as Italian.  She said that's not Italian !  

 Whoopi's comment was saying that's what an actor does, not having a hint of his British accent. 

Yep someone had a special pre-show meeting with MM.   What's the odds it will last?  I also was scratching my head with her tale about her family being harassed when she was a seven year old.  Was she changing the subject?  What does that have to do with the price of beans? 

I emailed too, thanks Former Nun. 

I want to hear the pimp story.  When in Las Vegas a " working girl" pounded on our hotel door at 7:30 am insisting someone called her.  She was very upset and wouldn't leave , we had to  call the front desk to come up. 

Whoops sorry just found the pimp story , pretty sure the were not strippers and pretty frightening for a young lady. 

Edited October 31, 2018 by athousandclowns
Overlooked post

[maggiemae]

I think MM has so much anger pented up (for years and years) she loves the power of an AR-15. It is not the skill to hunt without that type of rifle, to her. Or target shoot, etc. Pure power.

[Dahlia]

Guests sit at that table one after the next graciously and sincerely expressing sympathy, empathy,  understanding, compassion and in both word and deed behave with decent human kindness toward the she beast at the end of the table.  

She sucks it up as her due -never satisfied, a huge black howling hole of endless need and greed.

As she simpers and whimpers - extending her ring to be kissed by all the commoners paying homage.

But not one drop of any of this is given back to anyone else under any circumstance. Never Ever. 

Not orphans, not health care, not massacres. She feels nothing, If it’s not about her it don’t matter.  

What a truly hideous creature.