The Conners Past and Present

[CherryAmes]

14 hours ago, Bastet said:

Because she had an apartment.  Most American adults don't want to live with their parents if they can afford to live on their own.  (Especially if they have a series of casual sexual relationships; I think it would be pretty awkward to bring a one-nighter home when Mom and Dad are hanging out on the couch.)

Speaking of unrealistic!   I hate shows where they have "the kids" living with Mom and/or Dad and they all act like casual sexual relationships are just the new normal and no one bats an eye,  Well maybe that's truer than it used to be but I don't know, personally, of any family where the parents would have no issues with this!  I don't really expect TV shows to reflect real life all the time but it would be nice if they acknowledged how complicated stuff like this would actually be in most families.  Anyway Becky is in her 40s and is entitled to live her life however she chooses and I like that The Conners don't have her living at home.  Her life has been hard enough they didn't need to throw in Becky being financially dependent on her parents as well.

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

14 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

I wonder why Dan doesn't drive Uber or how Roseanne afforded a car new enough for Uber.

I have a neighbor that drives Uber that wasn't allowed to use her old car with no A/C. She rents a car each week and uses that for Uber and somehow gets a discount and it's taken out of her Uber earnings. Neighbor gets a car with no mileage requirements (she used the car to drive from Florida to Georgia for a week's vacation and wasn't billed for extra mileage, so she told me) 

[jhlipton]

On 1/20/2019 at 5:15 PM, Colorado David said:

I loved the Shield, and way certain no cop team could operate that corrupt way in reality.

The Shield was based on the Ramparts Division of the Los Angeles Police Department (which gained notoriety with the beating of Rodney King).  Some parts were amped up for TV, but the underpinnings were factual: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shield#Premise 

On 1/21/2019 at 7:38 AM, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

She rents a car each week and uses that for Uber and somehow gets a discount and it's taken out of her Uber earnings. Neighbor gets a car with no mileage requirements (she used the car to drive from Florida to Georgia for a week's vacation and wasn't billed for extra mileage, so she told me) 

Both Uber and Lyft have rental programs where the rental cost is taken from the earnings.

[TheLastKidPicked]

As somebody who was around for the inception of the original Roseanne and the anti-Cosby sentiment, may I wax nostalgic as to the events that led up to Roseanne?  And I know a lot of you were around as well, so feel free to correct me if your memory is different from mine:

It's the 1980's and the top sitcoms are Growing Pains, The Cosby Show,  ALf, and Different Strokes.  Shows where money was never an issue, the parents were perfect, and the biggest problem that the family faced was Theo getting (gasp!) an earring without permission.  Even in families with both parents working, they had plenty of time to spend an afternoon in the principal's office to provide proper guidance to the wonderful offspring.

 

The backlash came from this feeling of,  "If you just try harder, this would be your family".  To put a finer point on it,  "If you do not have a perfect life and a perfect family, then you are not trying hard enough." 

Well, what about families where they love each other but both parents work blue collar jobs where they can't just drop everything to meet with the principal for an afternoon.  Are they bad parents?

And what about families where the school principal is overworked and has no time for the trivial issues that are faced only by perfect families?  Is that a bad school?

What about families who would never be the Cosby's no matter how hard they try?  Aren't they still good families?

Enter Roseanne.

 

14 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I tend to agree this show is making it hard for the audience to root for the characters due to their poor decisions but, again (I'm a broken record on this) I'm so unsure of what did or didn't happen in this new timeline it's hard to say how many of those choices actually took place. 

It seems the difference on these last few episodes is we've gone from "Let's explore a good family who is struggling" to one where everybody is so dysfunctional that they seem to have no hope of bettering themselves.

Edited January 23, 2019 by TheLastKidPicked

[libgirl2]

11 minutes ago, TheLastKidPicked said:

As somebody who was around for the inception of the original Roseanne and the anti-Cosby sentiment, may I wax nostalgic as to the events that led up to Roseanne?  And I know a lot of you were around as well, so feel free to correct me if your memory is different from mine:

It's the 1980's and the top sitcoms are Growing Pains, The Cosby Show,  ALf, and Different Strokes.  Shows where money was never an issue, the parents were perfect, and the biggest problem that the family faced was Theo getting (gasp!) an earring without permission.  Even in families with both parents working, they had plenty of time to spend an afternoon in the principal's office to provide proper guidance to the wonderful offspring.

 

The backlash came from this feeling of,  "If you just try harder, this would be your family".  To put a finer point on it,  "If you do not have a perfect life and a perfect family, then you are not trying hard enough." 

Well, what about families where they love each other but both parents work blue collar jobs where they can't just drop everything to meet with the principal for an afternoon.  Are they bad parents?

And what about families where the school principal is overworked and has no time for the trivial issues that are faced only by perfect families?  Is that a bad school?

What about families who would never be the Cosby's no matter how hard they try?  Aren't they still good families?

Enter Roseanne.

 

 

I remember those days. It was refreshing to see a family that were like so many of us. They weren't exactly my family but they were closer than so many of the other shows. Money was not endless, parents worked hard..... 

[MarthaEllisanne]

I loved the first run of Roseanne (with exception of final season) because it showed how many people really live. Roseanne gamed systems to keep the utilities on and groceries on the table. There was the reality of Roseanne not being able to get a job she could probably do very well (office manager) but she didn't have computer skills.  These little struggles of everyday life were recognized by many in the same boat.  But fast-forward 20 years later and the family is somehow worse off than they were in the first run.  Dan, having quite his nice government job near the end of the first round, now has no pension or Medicare supplement.  Lack of good medical care helped kill Roseanne.  Darlene who went to college, is back in Landford with few prospects.  Becky, who was college material in the first show, ends up as a drunken barmaid. D.J. seems to be the only one who is doing better, thanks to his spouse.  Jackie, well, Jackie is still a molten hot mess.  While the family's current status may be realistic for some, I'd like to see a few of them doing better, not worse, than they were 20 years ago.  The show is almost too depressing.  

Edited January 25, 2019 by MarthaEllisanne
Wrong name. Changed David to D.J.

[Pete Martell]

25 minutes ago, MarthaEllisanne said:

I loved the first run of Roseanne (with exception of final season) because it showed how many people really live. Roseanne gamed systems to keep the utilities on and groceries on the table. There was the reality of Roseanne not being able to get a job she could probably do very well (office manager) but she didn't have computer skills.  These little struggles of everyday life were recognized by many in the same boat.  But fast-forward 20 years later and the family is somehow worse off than they were in the first run.  Dan, having quite his nice government job near the end of the first round, now has no pension or Medicare supplement.  Lack of good medical care helped kill Roseanne.  Darlene who went to college, is back in Landford with few prospects.  Becky, who was college material in the first show, ends up as a drunken barmaid. David seems to be the only one who is doing better, thanks to his spouse.  Jackie, well, Jackie is still a molten hot mess.  While the family's current status may be realistic for some, I'd like to see a few of them doing better, not worse, than they were 20 years ago.  The show is almost too depressing.  

Hadn't some of this already started at the end of the first show? (Becky not being in college; Dan losing his government job)

[Keywestclubkid]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 

I'd still be interested to know whether or not Fred ever existed in this new timeline. Fred was a good, stable partner for Jackie and she tossed him aside simply because she was bored with him. So picking the "wrong" guys isn't really her main problem. (Gary was a good boyfriend too; she dumped him because he disagreed with her decision to quit the police force after she was assigned desk duty.) 

 

Fred and Jackie had nothing in common other then Andy..... why would they both stay with someone just to be with someone? they didn't enjoy doing the same things they didn't have the same outlook on anything and just made each other miserable but not in the fun playful way  ... Jackie was more of a free spirit and Fred wanted order and structure .... had Jackie not got pregnant she wouldn't have talked to Fred ever again he was a one night stand that got her knocked up ....... he had to stalk her to get her she wanted nothing to do with him and didn't even want to tell him she was pregnant .........when he did get her he then got mad when he couldn't change her and she got mad that he didn't want to change either....and Gary wanted her to do what he wanted to do he wanted her to quit her job he gave her an ultimatum be with me or continue your job which is a way fucked up thing to do in its own self he knew she was a cop when they started dating then all the sudden it became a problem .....

Edited January 23, 2019 by Keywestclubkid

[bigskygirl]

1 hour ago, MarthaEllisanne said:

I loved the first run of Roseanne (with exception of final season) because it showed how many people really live. Roseanne gamed systems to keep the utilities on and groceries on the table. There was the reality of Roseanne not being able to get a job she could probably do very well (office manager) but she didn't have computer skills.  These little struggles of everyday life were recognized by many in the same boat.  But fast-forward 20 years later and the family is somehow worse off than they were in the first run.  Dan, having quite his nice government job near the end of the first round, now has no pension or Medicare supplement.  Lack of good medical care helped kill Roseanne.  Darlene who went to college, is back in Landford with few prospects.  Becky, who was college material in the first show, ends up as a drunken barmaid. David seems to be the only one who is doing better, thanks to his spouse.  Jackie, well, Jackie is still a molten hot mess.  While the family's current status may be realistic for some, I'd like to see a few of them doing better, not worse, than they were 20 years ago.  The show is almost too depressing.  

I would not say lack of good medical care killed Roseanne. She got hooked on pain medications, and Dan thought if he got her the knee operation, and she went off the pain medication after the operation, she would be good to go. He was in denial when it came to her addiction. A person does not just go off the medication and expect things to go well. Plus the fact, Roseanne and Dan probably lied to the doctor/surgeons who did her operation because I seriously doubt they would have operated if they knew she was addicted to pain medication.

Dan and Roseanne got into the financial mess by themselves because they took risk like the bike shop and restaurant by taking out two mortgages. Dan got a decent paying city job with pay and benefits, but he left it to take a job he got because of his minority friend Chuck. was among his crew members. What would he have done if he did not get the prison job. He could have had a decent pension and health care for himself and Roseanne by the time she started having knee problems.

[UYI]

3 hours ago, TheLastKidPicked said:

 

It's the 1980's and the top sitcoms are Growing Pains, The Cosby Show,  ALf, and Different Strokes.  

 

 

 

Well, in the case of Diff'rent Strokes (random apostrophes FTW!), it was a widower with a young daughter who took in the sons of his maid from Harlem who just passed away, but he was still rich, so your point is still well-made. :)

(And he DID eventually remarry, so there's that, too.) 

[Mu Shu]

Yeah, but these people still aren’t poor.  Call me when they have nine kids and a two bedroom trailer and have to hunt deer, hogs, possums, and squirrels to survive. Sorry, this is bullshit.  They have no idea what true poverty in America looks like, and how a lot of us got out of it.  

the Connors are preserved in amber, literally nothing has changed for these people, not one of them.  Dan is a contractor, and in all the years since this show started has made zero upgrades to his home.   Roseanne couldn’t have gotten grants to go to vocational school,  Bull. Shit.  It’s insulting to those of us who really know what poverty is.  It’s fucking government cheese and commodity meat. 

Hollywood sucks. 

[TattleTeeny]

7 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

They aren't intelligent choices but not all life choices are intelligent.  Sometimes life choices are based on emotion.  Becky found herself pregnant and after being alone for so long I can totally believe she would want that baby because it would be someone she could love and would love her back.  Darlene wanting to stay and keep an eye on her dad is totally believable to me.  He had been married for so long and to suddenly be without his life partner would absolutely break his heart and make him off balance (figurately speaking).  And Jackie has a pattern of choosing less than favorable boyfriends so that totally rang true to me.

Agree. And also, people without money often don't have the same number of "good" choices available to them before or after they screw up. This is not to say that all of the Conners' decisions were made due to a lack of cash, but some were made as a direct result.

[readster]

9 minutes ago, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

IMHO most of the Conners' poor decisions came not necessarily from outside sources, but because they do whatever the hell they want. Remember when Dan got his payout at the garage? They didn't pay off bills, they went to Disney World! (yes I know it was an advertisement for Disney built into the plot). Get a little inheritance? Everybody goes out to an expensive strained dinner! Feel like you're missing out on your hard-partying days? Buy a bike shop! Get pissed at your parents? Marry your hoodlum boyfriend! Don't want to do desk duty and collect a sweet pension while doing something else with your free time? Quit the force and dump the best boyfriend you ever had, only to hook up with an abusive guy! Lots and lots of bad choices that had everything to do with the "do what you feel like" mentality. 

And I just realized I sounded like Bev there. Shoot me. 

I know, same goes with Dan later on. Don't want to have a job you can "guarantee" a decent pension and would have to kill someone to get fired, but want a quick payout on a new prison your friend brought up that will just support you for about three years until your son is out of high school and you still have a toddler at home, go for it! Have a great new job offered to you, no your mother told you not to live above your raising, so don't do it and go get knocked up by your off again, on again boyfriend. There is taking a chance and then there is not looking past the front door.

[Keywestclubkid]

35 minutes ago, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

Don't want to do desk duty and collect a sweet pension while doing something else with your free time? Quit the force and dump the best boyfriend you ever had, only to hook up with an abusive guy!

 

It wasn’t about the best boyfriend she had tho it was about control. he didn’t want her on the force at all he wanted her in a new job. He wanted to control what she was doing. She didn’t quit the force because of him. She stayed because she liked being a police officer and he said you do what I want or you don’t have me anymore.  Jackie has always had a thing with people trying to control her. Her parents when she was growing up her mother when she was already grown her sister who iron fisted control of her life. she wasn’t about to let someone else control her. So if she stayed with him again her life wouldn’t be her own it would be what he wanted. She wouldn’t have been happy she would have been stuck just like she was with Fred. I don’t think she’s ever been in a “good” relationship on this show. If you really look at any of her relationship shown. That’s why her not having Andy now kinda bugs me so much because he was literally the only thing she had on her own that she loved and loved her. 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Keywestclubkid

[BeachDays]

34 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

Yeah, but these people still aren’t poor.  Call me when they have nine kids and a two bedroom trailer and have to hunt deer, hogs, possums, and squirrels to survive. Sorry, this is bullshit.  They have no idea what true poverty in America looks like, and how a lot of us got out of it.  

the Connors are preserved in amber, literally nothing has changed for these people, not one of them.  Dan is a contractor, and in all the years since this show started has made zero upgrades to his home.   Roseanne couldn’t have gotten grants to go to vocational school,  Bull. Shit.  It’s insulting to those of us who really know what poverty is.  It’s fucking government cheese and commodity meat. 

Hollywood sucks. 

 

Well to be fair, this is a sitcom and not a documentary.   I do agree they could be doing their research some more.  But the Conners, even during Roseanne, were never poverty levels.  Just working class.  

[bigskygirl]

23 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

It wasn’t about the best boyfriend she had tho it was about control. he didn’t want her on the force at all he wanted her in a new job. He wanted to control what she was doing. She didn’t quit the force because of him. She stayed because she liked being a police officer and he said you do what I want or you don’t have me anymore.  Jackie has always had a thing with people trying to control her. Her parents when she was growing up her mother when she was already grown her sister who iron fisted control of her life. she wasn’t about to let someone else control her. So if she stayed with him again her life wouldn’t be her own it would be what he wanted. She wouldn’t have been happy she would have been stuck just like she was with Fred 

I see what you are saying, but Jackie still lets people control her especially when Roseanne was still around. I hate the Jackie has to leave the force because of a back injury. There have been officers who were more severely injured in the line of duty who were able to go back on the job. I wish they would have her work hard on getting back on the force instead of turning into who she ended up as. I know it is a sitcom, but come on.

[bigskygirl]

2 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

Never mind the fact that Jackie is a life coach.  In a town where apparently everyone is a menial laborer.  How can any of these poor people afford her services? And what the fuck is the Matthew Broderick character supposed to be?  

this could be SO good if they would drop the old concept and let the characters grow.  I feel like Dans story is done, and Jackie and Becky’s are beginning.  I also think John Goodman’s heart isn’t in it any longer.  Darlene I can do without on every episode.  Same for the son, forget his damn name.  His wife actually could have a good story.  

I want to know who in their right mind would hire Jackie as a life coach. And yes, I could do without Darlene and her kids in every episode.

[Pete Martell]

6 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

Yeah, but these people still aren’t poor.  Call me when they have nine kids and a two bedroom trailer and have to hunt deer, hogs, possums, and squirrels to survive. Sorry, this is bullshit.  They have no idea what true poverty in America looks like, and how a lot of us got out of it. 

They're fictional characters, so they have no idea how how any real people live. The show is never going to be a true depiction of poverty in America, and I'm not sure they would even claim to be. The original Roseanne was a bit closer, but still had a lead actress who got an increasing amount of plastic surgery and added her own personal beliefs about social and political issues onto the canvas. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Pete Martell

[Snow Apple]

6 hours ago, jsbt said:

I'd just like to point out the original Roseanne never had the Conners out hunting possum to survive. They are working poor. Are they Winter's Bone, no. I don't feel the show is any more or less authentic than the original.

Right. I doubt there will ever be a sitcom about poverty. A drama perhaps, but not a sitcom. Rosanne was about a lower middle class family like my own. We may not be able to afford university or trips to Paris, but always managed to land on our feet. Factory, restaurant, and retail jobs may not be prestigious but they keep a roof over our heads and food on the table. 

I think showing how nice the neighbor's house on the original show was telling the audience this wasn't a poor town; just that the Conners decisions got them behind the bills and eating meatloaf dinners. If this was a show about poverty, Rosanne would never have quit the factory job or the hair salon job. Dan wouldn't have risked opening his own business.

[qtpye]

8 hours ago, Bastet said:

Boy howdy.  And for NO ONE in your life to point this out when you bring it up is totally unrealistic.

These people have inevitably changed some due to the experiences they had in the many years we weren't watching them, but for Darlene to jump to "awesome," Dan - who, while ultra-sensitive to suggestions Roseanne gave things up by marrying him and starting a family, routinely flipped his shit when his daughters limited their options by way of choices they made because of a guy - to offer unequivocal encouragement and only when alone show his sadness rather than at least asking cautionary questions and then accepting it as Darlene's choice to make (which is what Roseanne always encouraged him to do back when he freaked out), Becky to get in some typical sisterly messing with Darlene but only as some fun before saying, "Of course you should go," and the kids to be so enthused by the idea of moving back to Chicago they have not a moment's "Wait, but we'll be living with Who?" hesitation?  No.  Just, no. 

I always felt Roseanne giving up things to be with Dan was s retcon she told herself to feel better. She would probably of just ended up like Jackie but worse since Jackie sometimes had the guts to try new things. She just was not ambitious and was afraid to actually venture out of her comfort zone. She is very different from the real Roseanne who was amazingly successful.

11 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

Right. I doubt there will ever be a sitcom about poverty. A drama perhaps, but not a sitcom. Rosanne was about a lower middle class family like my own. We may not be able to afford university or trips to Paris, but always managed to land on our feet. Factory, restaurant, and retail jobs may not be prestigious but they keep a roof over our heads and food on the table. 

I think showing how nice the neighbor's house on the original show was telling the audience this wasn't a poor town; just that the Conners decisions got them behind the bills and eating meatloaf dinners. If this was a show about poverty, Rosanne would never have quit the factory job or the hair salon job. Dan wouldn't have risked opening his own business.

 Even though the Connors made mistakes it was nice to see a working class family be represented with dignity and heart. I used to think they were all so cool with the motorcycles and the hippie background. I think they struck gold when casting young Levy and Sara and have realized the child actors they have now are just not going to be as good with the sharp comebacks so having them act more natural is a good idea.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I always felt Roseanne giving up things to be with Dan was s retcon she told herself to feel better. She would probably of just ended up like Jackie but worse since Jackie sometimes had the guts to try new things. She just was not ambitious and was afraid to actually venture out of her comfort zone. 

ICA. There was also the problem of her personality. She was never going to have many opportunities because she was an obnoxious loudmouth and a bully with zero skills. And not to be shallow, she didn't exactly have the looks to set mens heart's aflame. She probably would have ended up living with Jackie because she never made very much money.

Edited January 24, 2019 by peacheslatour

[TheLastKidPicked]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

There was also the problem of her personality. She was never going to have many opportunities because she was a obnoxious loudmouth and a bully with zero skills.

And this is where they need to be careful with the way they write Darlene.  She is a single parent who needs to get things done on a daily basis.  By now, she has to realize that part of getting things done is you sometimes have to get along with people.

[UYI]

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

ICA. There was also the problem of her personality. She was never going to have many opportunities because she was an obnoxious loudmouth and a bully with zero skills. And not to be shallow, she didn't exactly have the looks to set mens heart's aflame. She probably would have ended up living with Jackie because she never made very much money.

IMO she looked the prettiest in season 5. Her hair was very pretty and shiny that year, and styled nicely. A year later she had plastic surgery (well, more obvious/noticeable plastic surgery than before), and looked kind of harsh for a long time after that. 

[qtpye]

23 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

Based on his age, all his close friends might be married at this point. 

 

4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

ICA. There was also the problem of her personality. She was never going to have many opportunities because she was an obnoxious loudmouth and a bully with zero skills. And not to be shallow, she didn't exactly have the looks to set mens heart's aflame. She probably would have ended up living with Jackie because she never made very much money.

 

 

3 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

Remember how she got on Dan's case because she did not get the one office job. She could have taken computer classes or sign up for job training at the local employment office. There were programs in the 1990's for people who wanted to learn office skills.

In the case of Darlene, I do not think David or Ben are so great, and I do not understand her appeal either. I think Becky's baby daddy was a much better catch.

I honestly thought she was very lucky to land a guy like Dan, who was a total heartthrob (despite the extra pounds) and really understood her personality. I don't remember if Dan was a hippie biker guy or a football hero but Roseanne kind of acted like she married down and I do not think that was the case. I imagine all her friends (and her sister) were kind of envious that she had a guy like Dan.  I am not saying that he was perfect, but I don't believe she gave up any dreams or ambitions to be with him.

I also did not understand why Roseanne worked at jobs she hated (like the hair salon) when Dan assured her that she really did not need to work at all. In the episode where she did not get the office job because of computer skills, he says the business is doing well and she could stay home. Also after the factory, I doubt that she was making much money. Dan was a good provider until the bike shop. It almost seemed like she worked because she was bored.

Edited January 25, 2019 by qtpye

[UYI]

27 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I also did not understand why Roseanne worked at jobs she hated (like the hair salon) when Dan assured her that she really did not need to work at all. In the episode where she did not get the office job because of computer skills, he says the business is doing well and she could stay home. Also after the factory, I doubt that she was making much money. Dan was a good provider until the bike shop. It almost seemed like she worked because she was bored.

I think that was exactly it--she NEEDED to be out of the house at some point during the day to avoid going stir-crazy and interact with other people. That's essentially what happened with Crystal this year--she retired from the casino, but returned because she was too bored for retirement. 

[bigskygirl]

26 minutes ago, qtpye said:

 

 

I honestly thought she was very lucky to land a guy like Dan, who was a total heartthrob (despite the extra pounds) and really understood her personality. I don't remember if Dan was a hippie biker guy or a football hero but Roseanne kind of acted like she married down and I do not think that was the case. I imagine all her friends (and her sister) were kind of envious that she had a guy like Dan.  I am not saying that he was perfect, but I don't believe she gave up any dreams or ambitions to be with him.

I also did not understand why Roseanne worked at jobs she hated (like the hair salon) when Dan assured her that she really did not need to work at all. In the episode where she did not get the office job because of computer skills, he says the business is doing well and she could stay home. Also after the factory, I doubt that she was making much money. Dan was a good provider until the bike shop. It almost seemed like she worked because she was bored.

I

In the case of having a job she hated, she was in the same boat a lot of people can be in. Taking a job you hate to pay the bills (remember her telling the one high school fast food place manager the same thing when he would not adjust her schedule-you do things like taking a crappy job to take care of your family.) I do not think the salon was all that bad.

I still do not believe the Lunch Box was making enough money for Roseanne to make two mortgage payments, pay all the bills and help Darlene when she went off to school before Dan got the city job. She ended up with the attitude she alone was keeping the family afloat when the Lunch Box came along.

[qtpye]

On 1/14/2019 at 3:14 PM, Steff said:

IMO we are still seeing other stories being told, but generational poverty is real & many families struggle from generation to generation to break the cycle of poverty.  Often they aren't able to.  Darlene was the closest to breaking the cycle, but then circumstances set her back to where she's struggling again.   It also plays into the way the economy/job opportunities never really allow for some families to escape the paycheck to paycheck lives.  I see it as staying true to the original recipe Roseanne, they are a family that struggles to stay afloat.  Sometimes the pressure isn't as bad, other times it's a panic.  We also have more multi-generational families living together now than we have in many many years (I'm not going to go hunting for the exact stat), so it makes sense for Darlene to move back home when she is struggling, lost her job & her husband left her. 

 

On 1/14/2019 at 3:27 PM, Chaos Theory said:

Ahhh nostalgia.  Ain’t it grand.  They were horribly bad off.  After Roseanne quit the factory she was out of work for months.  She worked one crummy job after another.  She hated the fast food job she worked at.  Then they’d was the job sweeping hair,  it was only later she got steady work as a waitress working for Leon at the Diner.  

Dan hated  drywall but it was at times the only steady job either of them had.  Then he did the motorcycle thing and that went under.  Yes The Lunchbox might have been their only actual real earned  success.

 

I think maybe because the writing is different and sadder somehow.  Maybe because the character of Roseanne is dead.  Maybe because The way the show ended way back had some hope to it but Darlene and David self destructed after Mark died.  Maybe the idea of generational poverty isn’t funny anymore.

 

On 1/15/2019 at 12:37 AM, Emily Thrace said:

I think part of the sadness is that things were supposed to be getting better but they have actually gotten so much worse. Especially for menial workers like the Conners. In the eighties they could actually have been middle class. Now they are nearly destitute. It would be nice if people could just work hard and get ahead but luck and timing plays a role and Conners have never had either.

 

On 1/15/2019 at 8:49 AM, Pallas said:

The security of the mid-century American working class -- in which Dan and the Harris sisters grew up and started out -- was based on labor conditions that vanished under their feet, as they reached middle age. They each fought back by trying to start a business based on what they knew. But the bike shop and the Lunch Box folded, taking the Conners' savings plus whatever they had borrowed, leaving them with new debts, a house worth very little (for the next decade or more), and no place back into the vanishing middle class.

Somehow they kept the house, even after the recession. (Bev again, along with physical labor that took out Roseanne's knee and Dan's back?) And by then, most new jobs in Lanford were probably in patient care, especially, hands-on tending of the elderly: realistically, Jackie would more likely have been working at the facility that expelled her mother. Roseanne would not have been hired and Dan would not have applied. Right when their own bodies finally demanded maintenance long deferred, and they needed to learn how to care for them. 

The twenty years between Roseanne and The Conners were, for the Conners, much harder than the twenty-five years before. 

It's interesting, I just posted that Dan was doing well with the drywall business and that Roseanne really did not have to work (as he said), but she still worked at hated jobs like the hair place. I once saw a documentary about working-class families in Minnesota. They followed them from the early eighties to the early aughts. One African American family where the father worked two jobs and the mother was a real estate agent managed to have their son graduate from college. He had a job as an aid for a politician but was not making a lot of money. The other family was a white working class. The parents got married right out of High School in the seventies and had two sons and a daughter. They were able to start a family and buy a house by the early eighties. In comparison, their children almost had nothing at the same age. No steady incomes, education, or relationships. The parents actually lost their house and ended up divorced. The low skilled work in the manufacturing boom that supported many families like this were gone and their kids really were much worse off economically than the parents. I guess no matter how dire this show seems, they are representing an economic reality for a lot of people. It is no longer a given that your kids will do better than you if they work hard and even education is not a guarantee of anything these days.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I also did not understand why Roseanne worked at jobs she hated (like the hair salon) when Dan assured her that she really did not need to work at all. In the episode where she did not get the office job because of computer skills, he says the business is doing well and she could stay home. Also after the factory, I doubt that she was making much money. Dan was a good provider until the bike shop. It almost seemed like she worked because she was bored.

I don't remember Dan ever doing well enough that Roseanne didn't have to work. When she quit Wellman Plastics she was doing magazine phone sales from her home. I think Dan might have tried to make her feel better by saying they would be OK but she knew damn well they needed that second income. They were always a family that needed two incomes. It was Dan who got insulted once when one of his friends (Chuck I think) suggested Roseanne could "carry" him after the Lunch Box opened. I also remember the Lunch Box being in trouble once when competition opened across the street. Jackie and Roseanne snuck in after hours and put fish in the air vents.

Edited January 25, 2019 by iMonrey

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

I also did not understand why Roseanne worked at jobs she hated (like the hair salon) when Dan assured her that she really did not need to work at all. In the episode where she did not get the office job because of computer skills, he says the business is doing well and she could stay home. Also after the factory, I doubt that she was making much money. Dan was a good provider until the bike shop. It almost seemed like she worked because she was bored.

 

45 minutes ago, UYI said:

I think that was exactly it--she NEEDED to be out of the house at some point during the day to avoid going stir-crazy and interact with other people. That's essentially what happened with Crystal this year--she retired from the casino, but returned because she was too bored for retirement. 

Yeah, there are quite a few reasons in addition to money that people work. 

There need not be any answer to "Why didn't she just stay home?" than she didn't want to.  She wasn't comfortable when Dan was the only one working, just like Dan wasn't comfortable when Roseanne was the only one working.  (I would never be comfortable as either side of a one-income duo, either, so I understand.)

Also, with his business there were good months and bad months - and the winter months were always slower because construction and Chicago winters aren't natural friends - so just because they could have been okay on one salary during one time period didn't mean they would be the same time next year; the times when they needed both incomes were more frequent than those when it wouldn't have been a hardship for her to stay home.  Life without union wages and benefits made the uncertain nature of Dan's income very important. 

[readster]

45 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I don't remember Dan ever doing well enough that Roseanne didn't have to work. When she quit Wellman Plastics she was doing magazine phone sales from her home. I think Dan might have tried to make her feel better by saying they would be OK but she knew damn well they needed that second income. They were always a family that needed two incomes. It was Dan who got insulted once when one of his friends (Chuck I think) suggested Roseanne could "carry" him after the Lunch Box opened. I also remember the Lunch Box being in trouble once when competition opened across the street. Jackie and Roseanne snuck in after hours and put fish in the air vents.

That's what always bothered me when Chuck suggested that Dan quit the city job to work on the prison. Dan for the first time in years was working a good job. They owned a business that was doing well do. In my mind, I think Chuck thought getting the building the prison job would mean he would have endless companies lining up out the door for him to get work. Even in the late 90s, when some individual contractors could get a big deal, they realized it was just temp and they had to keep looking for them. My uncle was one, but also made sure he had another job lined up as he had a family of 3. Chuck acted like since his son was almost out of the house and his wife worked too, a big job would be great and figured his friend would see the awesome score too. Of course, while Dan did get it, he sadly never learned from what happened with the bike shop and should have played it safe as he knew he was pretty good at that point and could probably retire no problem after Jerry was out of high school. Yeah, IF ONLY!

[UYI]

On 1/13/2019 at 11:21 PM, Steff said:

  They couldn't afford a VCR & were gifted one.  "The Conner's leap into the 21st century!" ~Darlene  

 

 

"The Conners LEAP into the 80's!", actually, the joke being that it was 1989 or 1990 by then. :)

[bigskygirl]

54 minutes ago, readster said:

That's what always bothered me when Chuck suggested that Dan quit the city job to work on the prison. Dan for the first time in years was working a good job. They owned a business that was doing well do. In my mind, I think Chuck thought getting the building the prison job would mean he would have endless companies lining up out the door for him to get work. Even in the late 90s, when some individual contractors could get a big deal, they realized it was just temp and they had to keep looking for them. My uncle was one, but also made sure he had another job lined up as he had a family of 3. Chuck acted like since his son was almost out of the house and his wife worked too, a big job would be great and figured his friend would see the awesome score too. Of course, while Dan did get it, he sadly never learned from what happened with the bike shop and should have played it safe as he knew he was pretty good at that point and could probably retire no problem after Jerry was out of high school. Yeah, IF ONLY!

And Roseanne thought the Lunch Box would get the meal supply contract. No offense, but I seriously doubt the Lunch Box would have been hired to feed the inmates and staff. The only reason why Dan got the contract in the first place was because he had a minority friend as part of the contracting team.

[methodwriter85]

12 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

And not to be shallow, she didn't exactly have the looks to set mens heart's aflame. She probably would have ended up living with Jackie because she never made very much money.

I remember how they had comments around the time that Roseanne worked in the hair salon about how she had such a pretty face but it was a shame she was so fat. I think this is also right around the time Roseanne Barr started getting plastic surgery and transitioning to looking like Ann Wilson from Heart.

If Andy hasn't been wiped out, I think he ripped Jackie off in a big way. Say he's a drug addict or something and he got arrested and Jackie used her house for bail money and he just skipped town, ala what happened to Oprah Winfrey's character in The Woman of Brewster Place.

If he is around, I keep picturing Erik Stocklin. I can see Laurie Metcalf birthing hm. I'm not sure if he's funny but I don't think any Andy subplot would actually require comedic skills. (He's apparently married to Colleen Ballinger so he might be funny? He always seems to play heavier parts, though.)

[blondiec0332]

I re watched this current season last night and this morning.  And I have to say I didn't miss the character Roseanne one little bit.  The show keeps the spirit of the original but has moved forward.  The characters still mention Roseanne which is natural.  She died but her memory hasn't been erased.  And if Becky has a girl I'm pretty sure she will be named Rose.

[Tosia]

On ‎10‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 4:13 PM, BookWoman56 said:

 

I have to disagree that marrying Mark did not affect Becky in a negative way. Becky eloped with Mark at age 17 when she was angry that her parents would not be able to pay for college; it was not a decision that Roseanne approved of, at least at first. That hasty marriage in effect represented Becky giving up her dreams of a college education.

I'm sorry but Becky expecting her working poor parents to pay for her college education is a convenient, piss-poor lazy excuse by the writers.  They are doing the same thing with Harris. 

I grew up lower middle class and I was fully aware that my parents would not be able to pay for college. 

I figured out how college worked alone--first in my fam to go.  I  worked and paid it all myself.  I got loans for my M.A. (s; yes two M.A. about 15 years apart)  later in my 30's and 40's.

My parents did get me a secondhand car ($2600) so they didn't have to drive me.  That car was the ultimate symbol of freedom and I loved it dearly--72 Mustang Grande.   I kept it for 10 years and wish I still had it.

That said, I FLOVED Mark (Glen)!!!!!!

He had the sexiest eyes ever.  So sad he went so early. 

I would have married him AND gone to college. I could have reassured him that I would always stay with him no matter how educated I got.  :0

[bigskygirl]

11 minutes ago, Tosia said:

I'm sorry but Becky expecting her working poor parents to pay for her college education is a convenient, piss-poor lazy excuse by the writers.  They are doing the same thing with Harris. 

I grew up lower middle class and I was fully aware that my parents would not be able to pay for college. 

I figured out how college worked alone--first in my fam to go.  I  worked and paid it all myself.  I got loans for my M.A. (s; yes two M.A. about 15 years apart)  later in my 30's and 40's.

My parents did get me a secondhand car ($2600) so they didn't have to drive me.  That car was the ultimate symbol of freedom and I loved it dearly--72 Mustang Grande.   I kept it for 10 years and wish I still had it.

That said, I FLOVED Mark (Glen)!!!!!!

He had the sexiest eyes ever.  So sad he went so early. 

I would have married him AND gone to college. I could have reassured him that I would always stay with him no matter how educated I got.  :0

I agree about the story line. They could have had Becky go to a local community college and then move on to a four year college. They were able to convince the viewers Darlene was a great writer who was able to get a scholarship while she was barely going to be able to graduated from high school because of her poor grades. She turn out to be a major snot with a great job, but she ended up pregnant and marrying the loser known as David. Mark may not have been a genius, but he was hard working young man and definitely love and supported his wife.

[readster]

52 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

I agree about the story line. They could have had Becky go to a local community college and then move on to a four year college. They were able to convince the viewers Darlene was a great writer who was able to get a scholarship while she was barely going to be able to graduated from high school because of her poor grades. She turn out to be a major snot with a great job, but she ended up pregnant and marrying the loser known as David. Mark may not have been a genius, but he was hard working young man and definitely love and supported his wife.

I agree, and I said this and my parents said this back in the day: "Becky apparently lost all intelligence in one night." I get they were trying to write Becky off, but they seriously could have done it in a more believable way. I never believed how Darlene got where she got after all the CONSTANT talk about how bad she was in high school, her depression and the fact she believed high school was just crap, but yet she did want to make something of herself. Then pregnant with Harris happen and David became a complete idiot and where he is now is a long the lines of: "So, let me get this, your family was crap and you decided to be like them minus the abuse?" Yeah, I feel they destroyed both Becky, Mark, and David and later on Darlene all in the same of: "We have to give these characters an excuse they aren't in the picture, so let's make them... dumb!" 

  It goes back to how I started hating Chuck's character especially in the revival. Yes, he didn't force Dan to do anything with the prison job. However, he knew that Dan was finally stable after years of crap. He knew that Rosanne was pregnant and was already stressed about The Lunch Box with Leo. He should have just said: "I'm trying to get the prison job, be good to send Junior to school and pay off the house." It was more like: "It be great for you too, Dan. Money." It also goes back to when Dan and Fred got Mark a job with the city too. Mark for the first time in years had a stable job and he was still pretty young. That should have been the focus to get Becky finished with school and getting a better apartment or small house. Instead it was: "yeah, let's go the trailer park and have a baby." When it should have been: "We will get the trailer, of your hair Dan and when Becky is done with school, we'll get a better place and... maybe you a grandchild." Nope, remember what the writers were trying to evoke: "Don't go trying to live above what you were raised." 

[blondiec0332]

18 minutes ago, readster said:

I agree, and I said this and my parents said this back in the day: "Becky apparently lost all intelligence in one night."

Becky grew up watching her parents work blue collar jobs and she had to know they weren't making a lot of money.  I agree it was lazy writing enabling them to get the character (and actress) away from the show.

[bigskygirl]

Imo, Chuck did not force Dan to leave his city job and go for the prison job. That was on Dan along with some help from Roseanne. Dan could have said no thanks I finally have a decent job with decent benefits to help me and my family. He has no one to blame for himself for the mess he got into financially. And the ironic thing is if there was no Chuck not being part of the crew applying for the prison job there would have been no job at all. In the case of Becky and Mark living in a trailer. It is not the end of world. Plenty of people with decent jobs and have a nice life and family live in one. Television shows love to show people who live in trailers as rednecks, stupid, doing menial work and will amount to nothing. I know people who live in manufactured homes, and they are some of nicest, smartest, hardest working people out there. In fact, I have seen newer modular and/or manufactured homes looking better than the house Dan and Roseanne have. Add the fact, they are cheaper and easier to take care type housing, I am not surprise more people are buying one.

[bigskygirl]

I think he was an auto mechanic in Minnesota. I think people thought she would not finish high school or go to college if drop out of school to get married. And a college education does not always mean success unless you go into specific fields of study. I remember looking at information last week on the computer and saw mechanics, plumbers and electricians can earn more money with less education and training. Of course the Becky drops out of school storyline was in the 1990's, but Mark would have been making more money than she would if she became a nurse or EMT like she was talking about.

[Bastet]

11 minutes ago, RocknRollZombie said:

I still wonder what Job Mark had in Minnesota.

They never specify Mark's job, but given his experience and the money they're offering him, I assumed it was another mechanic position.  Mark tells Becky his friend called from Minneapolis, saying there's an opening where he works and the job is his if he wants it.  It pays three times what he made working for Dan, and they'd let him join the union.

[qtpye]

7 hours ago, Tosia said:

I'm sorry but Becky expecting her working poor parents to pay for her college education is a convenient, piss-poor lazy excuse by the writers.  They are doing the same thing with Harris. 

I grew up lower middle class and I was fully aware that my parents would not be able to pay for college. 

I figured out how college worked alone--first in my fam to go.  I  worked and paid it all myself.  I got loans for my M.A. (s; yes two M.A. about 15 years apart)  later in my 30's and 40's.

My parents did get me a secondhand car ($2600) so they didn't have to drive me.  That car was the ultimate symbol of freedom and I loved it dearly--72 Mustang Grande.   I kept it for 10 years and wish I still had it.

That said, I FLOVED Mark (Glen)!!!!!!

He had the sexiest eyes ever.  So sad he went so early. 

I would have married him AND gone to college. I could have reassured him that I would always stay with him no matter how educated I got.  :0

 

7 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

I agree about the story line. They could have had Becky go to a local community college and then move on to a four year college. They were able to convince the viewers Darlene was a great writer who was able to get a scholarship while she was barely going to be able to graduated from high school because of her poor grades. She turn out to be a major snot with a great job, but she ended up pregnant and marrying the loser known as David. Mark may not have been a genius, but he was hard working young man and definitely love and supported his wife.

 

5 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

Becky grew up watching her parents work blue collar jobs and she had to know they weren't making a lot of money.  I agree it was lazy writing enabling them to get the character (and actress) away from the show.

In “The Middle” Frankie and Mike assume that their daughter thinks they have enough money to pay for college. They frantically get second jobs, only to be told that the daughter totally understands their economic situation. She is totally prepared to apply for every scholarship in the world and get jobs to pay her way. It is crazy that Becky never even tried for scholarships or saving some money on her own.

[bigskygirl]

With two mortgages, the bike shop on its last leg, Roseanne losing her job at the restaurant, and two more kids at home, she could have applied for financial aid as a hardship case even at the local community college.

[CherryAmes]

2 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

With two mortgages, the bike shop on its last leg, Roseanne losing her job at the restaurant, and two more kids at home, she could have applied for financial aid as a hardship case even at the local community college.

IIRC one of the problems for Becky was that when she looked into financial aid they didn't consider the family's present circumstances but rather they base their decisions on the previous years income -  I guess through income tax return or something like that?  Not sure but I do remember that being part of the problem.  Of course the biggest problem was they had to get Becky off screen and they picked a damn stupid way to do it!

Edited January 26, 2019 by CherryAmes

[bigskygirl]

She could have went in with the family's current financial information and ask for a hardship form.

[readster]

3 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

She could have went in with the family's current financial information and ask for a hardship form.

Yeah, but that would have been season 3 Becky, one who researched all of that and talked to her counselors about things. Instead it was: "My life is over because my parents were TOO stupid to run a business or keep a job from a company that was going under." Of course we also got Dan: "I have a great job, benefits, an ACTUAL retirement plan, but I do have another kid on the way in my 40s, Prison Job that will pay a crap load of money for me in a year you say? Sure, time I quit and go back to 'what if' jobs because I don't need any of what I just mentioned." 

[methodwriter85]

7 hours ago, qtpye said:

I'm sorry but Becky expecting her working poor parents to pay for her college education is a convenient, piss-poor lazy excuse by the writers.  They are doing the same thing with Harris. 

I think Harris is a little more realistic. She was hoping that Dan would get a settlement that would send her to a "real college", but Harris is figuring that she'll wind up at something like a community college or a no-frills satellite campus.

I have talked to people that are in Harris's age group and a lot of them are reticent about taking out student loans as compared to my peer group (roughly the people born from the early 1980's to the early-1990's) because university costs are so insanely high and the job market is far less predictable. A lot of them are planning on knocking out their general classes in community college or getting their degrees at commuter colleges while living at home.

[bigskygirl]

Into today's job market, a two year degree makes more sense because a four year degree does guarantee success anymore unless you are going for something in the medical field. A lot of community colleges have programs leading to four year degree by taking classes at night or on-line. If Harris wants to attend college, she should not expect Dan to pay for it.

[BeachDays]

3 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

Into today's job market, a two year degree makes more sense because a four year degree does guarantee success anymore unless you are going for something in the medical field. A lot of community colleges have programs leading to four year degree by taking classes at night or on-line. If Harris wants to attend college, she should not expect Dan to pay for it.

 

She didn’t expect him to pay for it.   She politely (for Harris lol) hedged the topic and he went with it.   It’s ok for parents and grandparents to buy things for their kids if they are able to and want to.   My dad paid for my college and I paid for my grad school.  

[bigskygirl]

If he had the money, it should go for his retirement instead of paying for Harris's college. There is no excuse for her to get a job, go to a community college for the first two years, apply for financial and look at scholarships. Having Darlene and her two kids living with him as already stretched his budget and added to his stress of trying to keep his head above water financial wise.