The Conners Past and Present

[Pallas]

Here's your topic to discuss the Conners family and their story, and to compare this show with Roseanne. Roseanne Conner is a part of both shows; Roseanne Barr can be discussed in her thread on Roseanne. Thank you!

[llewis823]

As a person who LOVED the original show Roseanne and seriously felt like part of their family, but who separates the actress from the character so therefore did not care what Roseanne the actress did/didn't do in relation to how I enjoyed or did not enjoy the revamp last season, I was prepared to not like The Conners. I really wanted to NOT like The Conners because I don't think it's fair what they did to Roseanne when there are so many other celebrities saying offensive things but not losing their shows. 

But I'm not stating that to start a debate. I'm saying that to make my point of...

Despite not wanting to like The Conners...I had to watch the first show out of curiosity. And now I am hooked because despite the way Roseanne the actress was booted from the show, the show was very real in the way it handled Roseanne Conner's death. Families lose their matriarchs. Families have to deal with the void that creates. Roseanne the character was a human being who was going to die at one time eventually. In her case, it was too soon and the family we have all known and loved for all these years has to learn to deal with that just as we as real families/human beings have had to deal with it in our own lives.

So, for anyone that wants to tell me, "I told you so" in regards to The Conners being great even without Roseanne, well I'm freely admitting that you got me and you were right!

[tessaray]

Lots of looks, no posts... :-) 

For those who may not be sure what belongs in an episode thread vs. Past and Present, perhaps an example might help.

In E01, Dan and Mark have a discussion about choosing a seatmate so he can sit by a boy he likes.  If you just want to comment on that, the episode thread is the place. 

However, if you wanted to also compare at length the scene with the Roseanne revival and Dan's reaction to Mark and the concept of gender fluidity, as well as his reactions to gay characters in the original Roseanne, that kind of discussion is ideally suited to Past and Present.  A good rule of thumb is to move a conversation here if it is delving more to the past than the present and is covering more territory than would work in an episode or individual character thread.   

Anything you might have posted in the Roseanne forum about canon and continuity would also be at home here. 

[BookWoman56]

18 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

It makes me sad that Becky ended up a loser and a drunk. Wasn't she the Conner with the most potential? What happened -- was it marrying Mark that took her down the wrong road?

 

18 hours ago, tessaray said:

It wasn't marrying Mark that affected Becky, it was Mark dying. His death was also the end of David and Darlene, as David went off the rails afterwards, too. 

I have to disagree that marrying Mark did not affect Becky in a negative way. Becky eloped with Mark at age 17 when she was angry that her parents would not be able to pay for college; it was not a decision that Roseanne approved of, at least at first. That hasty marriage in effect represented Becky giving up her dreams of a college education. Later on, when the show decided to make Mark more attractive as a character, suddenly Dan is talking about how hard Mark works. To me, though, the killer was when Becky was living in poverty with Mark and then decided she still wanted to go to college and was looking into possibilities of doing so even though Mark didn't want her to, and Roseanne essentially told Becky that she should put her marriage first. That scene destroyed most of the good will I had for Roseanne as a mother, because the subtext there was that Becky's desire to get an education and do something more satisfying with her life was way less important than not damaging the ego of her husband. 

Given what ultimately happened with Mark and the situation that Becky is now in, I am still angry at that lecture from Roseanne. If Roseanne had instead encouraged Becky to find a way to attend college and Becky had done so, then even if Becky had stayed married to Mark and he had died, Becky wouldn't be limited to the low-paying jobs she has evidently had until now. IIRC, Becky was contemplating wanting to go to college and then medical school; even if med school was out of reach, she could have gotten some kind of health care degree. I frankly think it would have been much more interesting if Becky had become a nurse or something similar, but then had to deal with her husband's death. So, yes, it makes me sad to see Becky in her current situation because at one point she did have a lot of potential. She was always the one with good grades and so forth, so it seemed weird to me that Becky ends up with no college education while Darlene, who when younger cared primarily about sports, is the one who got to attend college. I realize that things like that happen IRL, but it felt awkward to me the way it played out on the show.  There's obviously no way they can retcon those circumstances now, but I'd love to see Becky doing something now that Roseanne is dead that reflects Becky's academic and professional goals from when she was younger. 

[FairyDusted]

Thank you! It came up a few times this week. Thanks for the clarity and reminder.

Edited October 26, 2018 by FairyDusted
missing letter can change intent

[BeachDays]

I watched this episode twice more and a moment that keeps standing out to me is when David says Blue is his soulmate-  Darlene is SO taken aback and hurt.   When she jokes the new guy at the end might be her soulmate she and David seem so defeated.   Not to beat a dead horse but I keep thinking these two will end up back together.   They aren’t done with each other.   On the other hand I can see the writers and actors just wanting to portray the mixed feelings when a relationship truly ends.   However it goes I will always be appreciative to how much meat we got in a few moments.   Bless Sara Gilbert.  I keep thinking about her in the pilot episode, that little girl who barked in class; the teenager who met her sisters boyfriends brother and liked his hair; the MEAN girl who was too smart for her own good;  and the utter softness and vulnerability she always had under the rough exterior.   I have always loved the character of Darlene but damn.   I SO LOVE Darlene now.   

[Dee]

I hate that the show retconned Darlene into being Roseanne's heir apparent, when it was originally (and arguably still is) Becky.

[jsbt]

I don't think that's a retcon at all. The show basically regarded Darlene as the heir to Roseanne from Season 5-onward. They had been doing it beforehand, but they definitely didn't give a shit about Becky once Lecy left. Darlene got the lion's share of focus of the children and also followed a similar career trajectory to Roseanne as a creative person.

I'm glad Becky is getting more focus in the revival and matters to the show again, but in all my years of watching I never once thought Becky was presented as Roseanne's heir apparent. She is and was a fundamentally different person who just happened to later end up stuck in the same patterns. But this is probably a topic for the new series overlap thread.

Edited October 26, 2018 by jsbt

[Chaos Theory]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

I hate that the show retconned Darlene into being Roseanne's heir apparent, when it was originally (and arguably still is) Becky.

 

1 hour ago, jsbt said:

I don't think that's a retcon at all. The show basically regarded Darlene as the heir to Roseanne from Season 5-onward. They had been doing it beforehand, but they definitely didn't give a shit about Becky once Lecy left.

I think the situation changed when the Beckys Changed.  But also children grow up and personality’s change Tom boys stop playing sports and realize they have a gift for art and bond with the parent they might not have bonded with before.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[mythoughtis]

I never saw Roseanne as caring any more about Becky than Darlene. In fact, I never thought she cared about either of them.   I thought she did a very good job of portraying the ‘children are to be seen, nor heard’, and ‘ children make parents lives miserable’ attitude. Which made the decision to have Jerry Garcia all the more out of character.  

I think one of the glaring differences in Roseanne then and Darlene now is Darlene’s obvious love for her children.   If Becky had had children, I think she would have a  attitude about them similar to Roseanne’s attitude.  

Edited October 26, 2018 by mythoughtis

[CherryAmes]

I never thought Roseanne didn't love her kids.  She just wasn't a doting "live for my kids" kind of mom. Which, for me, was one of the best things about the original show.  Their house, their family and the way they talked to each other was way more familiar to me then most other sitcoms families that were around back then.

[Browncoat]

See also the episode where Darlene has to have an appendectomy.  Or comes home from the concert late.  Or wants to try smoking.  Or even when Roseanne pretends not to be Becky's mom at the bowling alley so she can check out Chip. 

[BlossomCulp]

Or how hurt Roseanne is in the episode where the girls are only being nice to her so they can go to a concert.  One of Roseanne Barr's best performances  was in this episode IMO.

[Bastet]

18 hours ago, jsbt said:

I don't think that's a retcon at all. The show basically regarded Darlene as the heir to Roseanne from Season 5-onward. They had been doing it beforehand, but they definitely didn't give a shit about Becky once Lecy left. Darlene got the lion's share of focus of the children and also followed a similar career trajectory to Roseanne as a creative person.

I'm glad Becky is getting more focus in the revival and matters to the show again, but in all my years of watching I never once thought Becky was presented as Roseanne's heir apparent. She is and was a fundamentally different person who just happened to later end up stuck in the same patterns. But this is probably a topic for the new series overlap thread.

I agree; there's no retcon.  Becky was treated like a third adult in the family when she was at home, having to do way more housework and taking care of D.J. than Darlene did, even once Darlene was the same age Becky had been and even when Becky was gone.  Roseanne told Becky she was the second woman in command, the heiress to her throne ("Okay; I'll go fold the royal underwear"), but it was in that context - the one who had to help take care of things.  Darlene was the one positioned as the chip off the old block in terms of attitude and personality; there were several comments over the years about Darlene being just like Roseanne (including when Roseanne tells her not to worry about those comments, she's no more like Roseanne than Roseanne is like her own mother, and Darlene wails, "Oh, no!").  Thus Bitch-Fest '93 - "oh, what a time we had." 

[DangerousMinds]

45 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

See also the episode where Darlene has to have an appendectomy.  Or comes home from the concert late.  Or wants to try smoking.  Or even when Roseanne pretends not to be Becky's mom at the bowling alley so she can check out Chip. 

Or when Darlene has her first child.

[BitterApple]

I decided to watch the first few episodes and get a feel for the show before commenting, and I have to say I was pleasantly surprised. Usually when a show carries on after a main character exits, it's a disaster, but I thought the aftermath of Roseanne's "death" was handled beautifully.

This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but the only character I'm not feeling so far is Gina. I think it's because DJ was such an afterthought on the original series, I have no real attachment or interest in him or his family. I'd be fine if they did the occasional drop-ins but weren't featured on every episode. 

The only thing that depresses me is everyone looks so old. I watch the original series so frequently it's jarring to see Father Time's effect on the cast, particularly with John, Lecy and Natalie.

Edited October 26, 2018 by BitterApple

[Dee]

Agree to disagree.

Becky was definitely treated as Roseanne's favorite child in the earlier seasons, then suddenly when the writers became enamored with Sara Gilbert's ability to deliver a punchline, they retconned Roseanne into a lapdog that did anything for Darlene's approval and Dan into being Becky, and by extension Mark's, biggest cheerleader.

[Bastet]

When Darlene was still a kid, and Becky a young teen, Roseanne understood Becky more than Darlene -- Becky was into boys and hanging out at the mall with her friends, and Roseanne had been the same, so she related.  Darlene had Roseanne's smart mouth and dry humor, but she was into playing sports and hanging out with Dan.  In those days, Roseanne spent more time with Becky.  But as Darlene got into the teen years, and started becoming the person she was going to be, she found her creative side, and that was something Roseanne understood - along with Darlene's desire to always have the last word, heh (I love that exchange of "right"s at Karen's store as Roseanne is leaving).  When Darlene checked out of sports, she spent a lot more time at home - usually hiding in her room or vegetating on the couch, but then when she started working on the comic book with David, she came alive.  Add in Becky moving to Minneapolis, and Roseanne spent more time with Darlene than she ever had.  As Darlene got closer to adult than child, the similarities between the two of them - including the conflicts that created - became prominent.

[Glendenning]

Darla Hood (The Little Rascals) wondered if she had betrayed her fanbase by growing up and filling out from puberty. I agree that's a shock to go from thirty years ago Roseanne to modern-day The Conners. You find that a lot of older people react "but it can't be! It feels like yesterday!" when they are reminded that 1988 is three decades in the past.

[peacheslatour]

2 hours ago, Glendenning said:

Darla Hood (The Little Rascals) wondered if she had betrayed her fanbase by growing up and filling out from puberty. I agree that's a shock to go from thirty years ago Roseanne to modern-day The Conners. You find that a lot of older people react "but it can't be! It feels like yesterday!" when they are reminded that 1988 is three decades in the past.

Especially since for the last 30 years they've been young kids in the reruns.

[AgentRXS]

On 10/26/2018 at 4:25 PM, BitterApple said:

The only thing that depresses me is everyone looks so old. I watch the original series so frequently it's jarring to see Father Time's effect on the cast, particularly with John, Lecy and Natalie.

I just love that Laurie Metcalf stays working in the business and hasn't destroyed her face. Her face looks lived in and she looks her age but she still looks good for her age. She's one of those people that is both beautiful but there is something that is "everywoman" about her also. I wonder if Roseanne was ever jealous that Laurie was so secure in herself that she didn't feel the need to go under the knife like she did.

Lecy looks fine to me. I think John may have lost a little bit of too much weight for his frame, but if it is what was needed to be done to keep him healthy, then it is what it is. Natalie looked old when she was young so to me she looks about the same in the face.

[qtpye]

On 10/25/2018 at 6:13 PM, BookWoman56 said:

 

I have to disagree that marrying Mark did not affect Becky in a negative way. Becky eloped with Mark at age 17 when she was angry that her parents would not be able to pay for college; it was not a decision that Roseanne approved of, at least at first. That hasty marriage in effect represented Becky giving up her dreams of a college education. Later on, when the show decided to make Mark more attractive as a character, suddenly Dan is talking about how hard Mark works. To me, though, the killer was when Becky was living in poverty with Mark and then decided she still wanted to go to college and was looking into possibilities of doing so even though Mark didn't want her to, and Roseanne essentially told Becky that she should put her marriage first. That scene destroyed most of the good will I had for Roseanne as a mother, because the subtext there was that Becky's desire to get an education and do something more satisfying with her life was way less important than not damaging the ego of her husband. 

Given what ultimately happened with Mark and the situation that Becky is now in, I am still angry at that lecture from Roseanne. If Roseanne had instead encouraged Becky to find a way to attend college and Becky had done so, then even if Becky had stayed married to Mark and he had died, Becky wouldn't be limited to the low-paying jobs she has evidently had until now. IIRC, Becky was contemplating wanting to go to college and then medical school; even if med school was out of reach, she could have gotten some kind of health care degree. I frankly think it would have been much more interesting if Becky had become a nurse or something similar, but then had to deal with her husband's death. So, yes, it makes me sad to see Becky in her current situation because at one point she did have a lot of potential. She was always the one with good grades and so forth, so it seemed weird to me that Becky ends up with no college education while Darlene, who when younger cared primarily about sports, is the one who got to attend college. I realize that things like that happen IRL, but it felt awkward to me the way it played out on the show.  There's obviously no way they can retcon those circumstances now, but I'd love to see Becky doing something now that Roseanne is dead that reflects Becky's academic and professional goals from when she was younger. 

The Becky storyline can really be fascinating if they write it correctly. I too remember that episode and was surprised at Roseanne's reaction to Becky potentially divorcing Mark if he could not go along with her returning to college plans.  I thought Roseanne always thought that Mark was bad for Becky and wanted her daughter to get away from him. Yes, Mark is a hard worker, but the life he envisioned for himself was not the one that would make Becky happy. In fact, in the early years, he worked hard so she could go to community college in Minnesota. I do not know why Roseanne insisted that Becky put the marriage first when in all honesty, it had been a youthful mistake on both their parts and they would have probably been happier with other people. Mark was not Dan to Roseanne, a perfect soul mate to Becky, but more like a life raft that she clung to when she (mistakenly) thought she had no other options. I think they cared about each other, but both were mistaking young passion for love and it was understandable. 

[jsbt]

I just want Becky to take that damn hotel management course!!

[Mmmfloorpie]

On 25/10/2018 at 9:15 PM, Dee said:

I hate that the show retconned Darlene into being Roseanne's heir apparent, when it was originally (and arguably still is) Becky.

I disagree. Roseanne wanted to be a writer. Darlene wrote that poem and then ultimately ended up writing the comic book and going to college for writing.

Roseanne found it easier to relate to Becky but I think Darlene was always Roseanne Jr. Physically they were more similar also and both had that sarcastic witt.

I think in one of the beauty shop episodes Roseanne gets asked about her kids anf she says something like "Becky is blonde, slim and gets good grades... I'm not even sure she's my daughter" or something like that.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I think in one of the beauty shop episodes Roseanne gets asked about her kids anf she says something like "Becky is blonde, slim and gets good grades... I'm not even sure she's my daughter" or something like that.

Wasn't it when she was with Crystal at a Lamaze class?

[Dee]

Darlene wrote one poem. Besides that, she was terrible in school.

Becky got great grades, and was very close to Roseanne, yet she also possessed the same sarcastic wit as Roseanne

There were tons of episodes that highlighted Dan & Darlene's bond and the total lack of relationship between Roseanne & Darlene.

Then when Lecy leaves Darlene suddenly becomes a misunderstood wunderkind

[Mmmfloorpie]

45 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Wasn't it when she was with Crystal at a Lamaze class?

Probably. So many funny lines it's hard to keep track.

[Mmmfloorpie]

4 minutes ago, Dee said:

Darlene wrote one poem. Besides that, she was terrible in school.

Becky got great grades, and was very close to Roseanne, yet she also possessed the same sarcastic wit as Roseanne

There were tons of episodes that highlighted Dan & Darlene's bond and the total lack of relationship between Roseanne & Darlene.

Then when Lecy leaves Darlene suddenly becomes a misunderstood wunderkind

Yes, Becky was into girl things and Darlene was the tom boy. But, Becky was also an over achieving prom queen and I don't think that's how Roseanne was ever portrayed. Darlene however, was the under achieving, "common sense smart vs book smart" with a caustic witt which seems to me what Roseanne was probably more like high school.

I thought of a good analogy. Becky was like Phyllis Zimmer. Bubbly, outgoing, teacher's pet. Darlene was like Roseanne. More dark and brooding, the Anti Phyllis.

[Dee]

Becky wasn't ever a bubbly prom queen. She was levelheaded, responsible and fairly well liked in school but not overly popular just like Roseanne.

I wouldn't say Darlene had common sense, until later, and even that was a product of her relative circumstances instead of an inherent trait.

Also, during the Darlene Depression Phase the show's writing went out of its way to ridicule Becky as a character while downplaying Becky's academic & household contributions as Darlene was placed on a completely unearned pedestal.

Becky was also very sarcastic. One of the reasons Roseanne said she enjoyed fighting with Becky was because Becky yelled back just like Roseanne.

[Mmmfloorpie]

43 minutes ago, Dee said:

Becky wasn't ever a bubbly prom queen. She was levelheaded, responsible and fairly well liked in school but not overly popular just like Roseanne.

I wouldn't say Darlene had common sense, until later, and even that was a product of her relative circumstances instead of an inherent trait.

Also, during the Darlene Depression Phase the show's writing went out of its way to ridicule Becky as a character while downplaying Becky's academic & household contributions as Darlene was placed on a completely unearned pedestal.

Becky was also very sarcastic. One of the reasons Roseanne said she enjoyed fighting with Becky was because Becky yelled back just like Roseanne.

Bubbly as in upbeat and a positive outlook. In season 1-3 Becky was the prom queen type and only turned more sarcastic as Darlene turned to vegetable dip and her relationship with Mark got more serious.

The common sense thing was a quote from the show. Darlene says Becky has book smarts but if you dropped her in the wilderness, Darlene would survive but Becky would curl up and die.

[Bastet]

38 minutes ago, Dee said:

Also, during the Darlene Depression Phase the show's writing went out of its way to ridicule Becky as a character while downplaying Becky's academic & household contributions as Darlene was placed on a completely unearned pedestal.

Actually, Becky got a great moment in that arc when she got to call that specific thing out ("When did you ever buy me a cake for bringing home a decent grade or helping out D.J. or doing the laundry or any of the other million things I do while Darlene sits around and sucks up all the attention?" to Roseanne and "You're just a whiny little basket case who's milking this depression thing for all it's worth.  So here it is, the middle of the afternoon, and you get to do exactly what you want.  Excuse me, I've got a zillion chores to do, or Mom and Dad will kick my butt" to Darlene) and both of them acknowledged her grievance and made things up to her. 

[Dee]

Quote

Bubbly as in upbeat and a positive outlook.

Becky wasn't upbeat and positive.

She was quite stubborn, notoriously short tempered and very independent.

She was never a Molly Tilden type.

Quote

only turned more sarcastic as Darlene turned to vegetable dip and her relationship with Mark got more serious.

Becky was always sarcastic. She was snarky with Roseanne over clothes, boys, chores & privileges long before she began dating Mark.

Quote

The common sense thing was a quote from the show. Darlene says Becky has book smarts but if you dropped her in the wilderness, Darlene would survive but Becky would curl up and die.

The quote coming from Darlene isn't a ringing endorsement. Since she is guilty of just about everything she accused Becky of being.

During the run of the show Becky almost always had a steady job and a reliable place to live. Darlene not so much.

[BeachDays]

One thing (among many) that I love about this show is the kids didn’t remain static-  they were allowed to grow and change, just like real kids.   

[Mmmfloorpie]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

Becky wasn't upbeat and positive.

She was quite stubborn, notoriously short tempered and very independent.

She was never a Molly Tilden type.

Becky was always sarcastic. She was snarky with Roseanne over clothes, boys, chores & privileges long before she began dating Mark.

The quote coming from Darlene isn't a ringing endorsement. Since she is guilty of just about everything she accused Becky of being.

During the run of the show Becky almost always had a steady job and a reliable place to live. Darlene not so much.

I guess we watched different shows.

From season 1 Becky was the do gooding, suck up, girly girl, student council teacher's pet. Darlene was the opposite.

Becky was a snob yes, but not a cynic like Darlene. If Becky was sarcastic it was probably in response to Darlene. 

Sitcoms are based on conflict. If both daughters were the same character, it would have been pretty boring. 

That's the problem with the later seasons of the original run and season 10-11 of the revival. Becky and Darlene essentially became the same character.

In the revival they are both waitresses and both down on their luck and both white trash. One of them should have been successful and one not.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 10/25/2018 at 8:50 PM, BeachDays said:

I watched this episode twice more and a moment that keeps standing out to me is when David says Blue is his soulmate-  Darlene is SO taken aback and hurt.   When she jokes the new guy at the end might be her soulmate she and David seem so defeated.   Not to beat a dead horse but I keep thinking these two will end up back together.   They aren’t done with each other.   On the other hand I can see the writers and actors just wanting to portray the mixed feelings when a relationship truly ends.   However it goes I will always be appreciative to how much meat we got in a few moments.   Bless Sara Gilbert.  I keep thinking about her in the pilot episode, that little girl who barked in class; the teenager who met her sisters boyfriends brother and liked his hair; the MEAN girl who was too smart for her own good;  and the utter softness and vulnerability she always had under the rough exterior.   I have always loved the character of Darlene but damn.   I SO LOVE Darlene now.   

The kid awkwardly navigating her adolescent years who, after writing that beautiful poem, discovered writing would be her life's work. 

[Dee]

14 minutes ago, Mmmfloorpie said:

I guess we watched different shows.

No. We watched the same show. We just disagree.

[HeySandyStrange]

On 10/26/2018 at 11:26 AM, CherryAmes said:

I never thought Roseanne didn't love her kids.  She just wasn't a doting "live for my kids" kind of mom. Which, for me, was one of the best things about the original show.  Their house, their family and the way they talked to each other was way more familiar to me then most other sitcoms families that were around back then.

Roseanne, to me, acted like the typical parent from the time period. I grew up in the 80s/90s and most parents were like Roseanne and Dan: not hands on, helicopter parents, didn’t handle their kids with kid gloves or think their kids were perfect little angels. I also appreciate how real Roseanne and Dan were as parents.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

One of them should have been successful and one not.

Darlene kind of was.....for a while.

[BlossomCulp]

3 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Darlene kind of was.....for a while.

I wish in many ways that they'd left Darlene as successful - or at least working in her field anyway - but I get that this wouldn't have given her a reason to move back to Lanford.  But my one criticism of Roseanne is now my one criticism of The Conners, they cannot catch a break!

[peacheslatour]

42 minutes ago, BlossomCulp said:

I wish in many ways that they'd left Darlene as successful - or at least working in her field anyway - but I get that this wouldn't have given her a reason to move back to Lanford.  But my one criticism of Roseanne is now my one criticism of The Conners, they cannot catch a break!

Maybe they will be able to now that a nasty boil has been lanced.

[Mmmfloorpie]

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Darlene kind of was.....for a while.

They had to make Darlene down on her luck in order to have a show. If she remained successful there would have been no reason for her to move back home.

It's like how DJ is fairly successful and his role has been pretty much reduced to cameos.

I think since Darlene had to be destitute, they should have given Becky some success. She should have become a dental hygienist or something where she still thinks she is that prom queen who has an overinflated opinion of herself. Like Willie E Coyote... Doesn't fall to the ground because he doesn't look down to see there's no floor under him.

She could have really scored some good shots on Darlene having to move home and Darlene could have attacked Becky's overinflated opinion of herself.

The storyline of Becky having Sarah Chalke's baby would have been way better if her motive wasn't just about the money but instead she realizes she is aging and really regrets not having a child with Mark etc. Then she does find out she can't have children and is crushed and it's handled seriously, not in a goofy, fabrege egg manner.

[wknt3]

49 minutes ago, Mmmfloorpie said:

They had to make Darlene down on her luck in order to have a show. If she remained successful there would have been no reason for her to move back home.

I pretty much agree with this - she would have either had to be down on her luck or her parents would have had to be much worse off in order for her to have a reason to come back.
 

Quote

It's like how DJ is fairly successful and his role has been pretty much reduced to cameos.

On the other hand I don't think this is true. His role is limited because Fishman is the weak link in the cast. No matter what they did with the character he was never going to be heavily featured.

[BlossomCulp]

5 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

His role is limited because Fishman is the weak link in the cast.

Absolutely agree with this but I do think it's good that DJ seems to be at least reasonably doing ok.  It's bad enough that Becky seems to have stayed in a downward spiral since the original series ended and that they had to make Darlene down on her luck to explain her coming back to Lanford, if they make DJ's life messed up too would that be more sadness and misery than a hard core fan could take?

[Mmmfloorpie]

1 hour ago, wknt3 said:

 

On the other hand I don't think this is true. His role is limited because Fishman is the weak link in the cast. No matter what they did with the character he was never going to be heavily featured.

It was purposely done because he is the weak link. The premise of season 10 wasn't DJ moves home to take care of his parents lol.

[BeachDays]

I guess I’m in the minority but I don’t think he is the weak link.   He is always welcome and funny and I hope we get more of him as the series progresses.   

[Mmmfloorpie]

11 hours ago, BeachDays said:

I guess I’m in the minority but I don’t think he is the weak link.   He is always welcome and funny and I hope we get more of him as the series progresses.   

I almost feel like if he wanted more to do he could ask for more to do. But he's just happy to be there so he's enjoying the ride.

[jsbt]

I like Michael Fishman as an adult and a person a lot - he's a wonderful spokesman for the show, but he has never been much of an actor. When Roseanne began to lean on him in the final season or two as everyone else looked for the exits the show suffered for it. The stuff with him and Heather Matarazzo as film geeks was unwatchable. Her original plan for a tenth season featuring just Roseanne and D.J. living in a trailer park (which the network thankfully kiboshed) sounded like an absolute horror.

I think Fishman is better than he was a kid, but he's still best used in a very careful role. The bulk of the material goes to Darlene, Dan, Jackie and Becky because they can handle it.

Edited November 8, 2018 by jsbt

[peacheslatour]

Didn't Roseanne basically cast him strictly on the basis of his resemblance to her? He seems like a really nice person though.

Edited November 8, 2018 by peacheslatour

[jsbt]

He was the replacement for Sal Barone from the pilot, who did not get along with Sara Gilbert. And yes. That and their obvious rapport made it work, because D.J.'s role was relatively small til the final two seasons.

[Not4Me]

2 hours ago, jsbt said:

I like Michael Fishman as an adult and a person a lot - he's a wonderful spokesman for the show, but he has never been much of an actor. When Roseanne began to lean on him in the final season or two as everyone else looked for the exits the show suffered for it. The stuff with him and Heather Matarazzo as film geeks was unwatchable. Her original plan for a tenth season featuring just Roseanne and D.J. living in a trailer park (which the network thankfully kiboshed) sounded like an absolute horror.

I think Fishman is better than he was a kid, but he's still best used in a very careful role. The bulk of the material goes to Darlene, Dan, Jackie and Becky because they can handle it.

 

Oh gawd, I remember how painfully awkward and unfunny those scenes were with both Michael  and Heather. I felt neither of those two could act. Somehow though from the Lottery season I would’ve thought that DJ might have ended up as the most successful of all the Connor kids, like maybe going to film school and ending up having the biggest career seeing as he was the baby in the family (they usually get treated the best).

Which is why DJ ending up in the military just never made any sense for me. And that’s not to say you can’t have a successful career in military but A)he never fit that type, and B)it appears he’s struggling somewhat years later.

I remember years ago Roseanne was willing to do a 10th season after the Lottery crap but was she really thinking about a trailer park scenario? Ugh, maybe it’s better she’s gone. I think she’s done more character damage to the cast than any writer.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Not4Me