Jesus God, Leah!!

[CofCinci]

Ali can walk!  She can walk all day.  She can run bases.  She can hop on the trampoline.  Ali can do all those things - because prayer works!  Hallelujah.  These ignorant hillbillies are robbing from her future quality of life.  Each softball season will do so much damage in the future.

[BitterApple]

17 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

 

Is Ali walking a surprise? I mean, that has never been disputed since she has been walking for quite some time now. In fact, it is the walking that will eventually be her downfall. 

Right and that was Dr. Tsao's point. It's not that Ali is incapable of walking, it's that she shouldn't because it will deteriorate her muscles faster. These idiots are so hell-bent on turning Ali into some miracle child who beats the odds that they're shortening her life span in the process.

[gunderda]

There's no way that girl is running the bases... 

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Gah...it's stuff like this that just really turns me off from "religion" because it can so easily become an excuse not to listen to science, academics, and intellectuals. UGH. UGH. UGH. 

I feel like this phrase can apply to so many things in life: "Just because one can, doesn't mean one should."

Yes, Ali CAN walk. She's being doing it for years. She can (for now) play t-ball. But her playing t-ball now will most likely greatly reduce her quality of life later (and not all that much later, in the grand scheme of things). Sure, Ali might play t-ball now but that may mean she won't be able to walk across the stage at her graduation or lift herself from her bed to her wheelchair one day or be able to shower/bathe herself in a decade or two. These people. UGH! Just because she can doesn't mean she should. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[MargeGunderson]

Has Leah never seen Steel Magnolias? Maybe Dr Tsao could use it to illustrate Ali's situation. Although Leah's takeaway would probably would probably be "Dr Tsao thinks Ali could be an actress like Julia Roberts!"

[jacksgirl]

MargeGunderson,  I too thought of "I'd rather have 30 minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special " (quote may not be exact) with regards to Ali. As hard as it is, they MUST listen to the experts,  Ali's future depends on it. Kids are so resilient, yes Ali in her wheelchair is going to be difficult to deal with daily at home and school, but she can thrive if the families are willing to commit to doing what's best for her.

[GreatKazu]

It is due to prayers that she is walking and playing athletics.

When Ali is reduced to life in a motorized wheelchair because she lost her muscle control and is incapable of walking anymore and her life span is greatly reduced, does that mean not enough people prayed? I mean, where will the fault lie because it won't be Leah and her family's fault. 

[MargeGunderson]

@GreatKazu, they will wonder why Dr Tsao never told them it could happen.

[TwirlyGirly]

On ‎5‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 5:45 PM, poopchute said:

lol determination and prayer.  These fucking simpletons.

Exactly. Like I said earlier, I'm surprised we haven't already seen Ali up on the stage at some megachurch with the pastor laying hands on Ali to heal her.

When I was much younger, I thought there might be something to the whole "praying for healing" thing. But I'm very analytical, so it was more like "I suppose it COULD work, but I haven't seen any scientific evidence it does." The whole "correlation does not equate to causation" thing.

Then one day, I was sort of hopping, skipping, and jumping around the internet, and landed on a website about "faith healing." The authors main point was summed up in one question: "If faith healing works, why does God hate amputees?" In essence, he posited if it was possible to heal people through faith and prayer, then why has nobody born without a limb or who lost one due to an accident or injury, ever had it regrow? There is no evidence, scientific or anecdotal, this has ever happened. That was my "lightbulb" moment, because it made perfect sense to me that if faith/prayers actually could cure someone, then certainly there must be at least one person, somewhere, with a missing limb and enough faith for the limb to regrow if "faith healing" was possible..

But there isn't a single case of this ever occurring.

[AmyFarrahFowler]

4 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

It is due to prayers that she is walking and playing athletics.

When Ali is reduced to life in a motorized wheelchair because she lost her muscle control and is incapable of walking anymore and her life span is greatly reduced, does that mean not enough people prayed? I mean, where will the fault lie because it won't be Leah and her family's fault. 

When the day comes that Ali can no longer walk (like walking down the aisle like homeboy is expecting) I thoroughly expect the Messer-Sims family to declare that Ali has given up. It can't be their Lord and Savior's fault after all.

[GreatKazu]

I am a believer in my God. I also pray. I have commented here on the chat thread to people who have been in situations or just endured a loss and I sent out my thoughts and mention I will pray for their situation. I also am a believer that whatever floats anyone's boat is their choice. I know some are atheists and others are believers like me. I think one thing we all have in common regardless of religion or beliefs is we all have common sense. Someone like me believes if a specialist says doing this will cause X to happen, then you should listen to that specialist. That doesn't mean religion and prayers can't also be a part of that process. Nothing wrong with having religion and a belief system to rely on, but it should not be the ONLY part of that process. 

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

On 5/25/2017 at 5:53 PM, GreatKazu said:

It is due to prayers that she is walking and playing athletics.

When Ali is reduced to life in a motorized wheelchair because she lost her muscle control and is incapable of walking anymore and her life span is greatly reduced, does that mean not enough people prayed? I mean, where will the fault lie because it won't be Leah and her family's fault. 

My guess is they'll pull the old "only God knows why" it's happening, "it's all part of God's plan" (and not the results of their stupidity), and that we shouldn't question why God decided not to let Ali walk anymore cause we'll find out from God one day when He lets us in on the plan/reasons after we're dead (and  conveniently no longer able to blame the family members). Essentially, they'll make God the fall guy but say we can't question his reasons to deflect from themselves. I've seen God get thrown under the bus like this a lot.

Edited May 29, 2017 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[ChocolateAddict]

They refuse to realise that Ali's development is different from other children.  For any other child, if you want them to be better at something, you have them do more of it.  E.g. if you want to be a faster swimmer, do more swimming or if you want to run for longer, do more running. But Ali's condition means that this is completely flipped over.  If you want her to be able to walk for the long term, limit her walking now.  It doesn't *seem* to make sense because we typically think "practise makes perfect". For most people, being tired because of exercise is a good thing because improves stamina, muscle growth and so on.  But for Ali, it is the absolute opposite, it doesn't make her stronger, it makes her weaker. 

But I can't even put this attitude down to ignorance or misguided lack of understanding.  They have been told at least twice a year for the last 5+ years that Ali's best chance of survival comes from limiting physical activity and finding alternative options for her.  They know that more running/walking/skipping is bad for her but they put their heads in the sand and say "but her running has got better!".  Yes, her running has got better.  And for other children that would be a fantastic outcome but not for this child.  For this child, physical exhaustion means that her systems are overloaded and eventually breaking down. 

And the thing that kills me is that they know this is bad for her.  They know that the world authority on Ali's condition has told them to use the wheelchair daily but they think that somehow she is going to be the ultimate miracle who defies all medical knowledge.  And maybe she will be.  But there is a very high, almost certain, chance that it will turn out according to the most knowledgeable person on the planet and Ali's quality of life will deteriorate, accelerated by their refusal to listen to his expertise. 

They see her falling over multiple times a day because her little legs aren't able to hold her up.  They know that a fall is dangerous for her but they still have her playing f*cking sport!  Ali's condition isn't the end of the world, millions of people live fantastic lives with physical disabilities.  Ali's whole family is failing her and none of them deserve her. 

[anonymousgirl]

A bit of a personal  post I made on  another forum

I’m all for Ali being happy, but its like Dr. Tsao's pointed out. It's not that Ali is incapable of walking, it's that she shouldn't because it will deteriorate her muscles faster.

 I just worry about Ali’s emotional heath with type of comments her parents make to her and to the public. Now, I don’t exactly hold this against them as a parent they do not want their children to suffer and I guess they find a type of solace in their faith, understandable given their circumstances

The way Leah and Cory act with the healing prayer reminds me of my childhood. I was born disabled and when was younger, My mom and I myself envisioned us climbing mountains together, etc. So we would pray and ask God to heal me. Until one day as a kid I told Mom and my family to not pray for that anymore and to put that dream away. I told them that I was ok with myself and I think God was Ok with me too.

Which reminds me of another personal instance now and then I will run into people who will pray for me and think they can heal me. One day I was eating at a buffet and this lady asked to pray for me and said sure but she comes and touches me on the head and starts praying oddly she kind of scared me. She thought the Holy Spirit worked with or something , Anyways after she though of the days I should try walking and she gave us pamphlets and left. Needless to say I lost my appetite 

I’m not sure if Ali will ever come to the same conclusion/acceptance as I did or if she might end up feeling a type of blame for herself once she realizes things will only get worse, like I can picture her in the future questioning what she has done wrong in God's eyes to deserve this? I can also see her being angry in the future or holding a type of resentment by not accepting her MD, I hope that is not the case though. I wish Ali the Best. I hope one day Ali understands that it is Ok to be different/disabled, because right now I think the message her parents unknowingly sends Ali is to not accept MD or her circumstances and that can easily be fixed with faith…

Edited May 29, 2017 by anonymousgirl

[Mkay]

Now Leah's fan page is posting it. I so badly want to comment but I can't handle the crazy fans.   

[CofCinci]

Has anyone watched the HBO documentary 'Mommy Dead and Dearest'?   It reminded me of Ali.  Without spoiling the documentary, the mother pretends the child has MS and keeps her in the wheelchair---- on TM, Ali is told she has MS and no one puts her in the wheelchair.

[akr]

I looked up exercise and MD a while ago and it seems like a little bit of exercise actually is encouraged (but not to the point of getting tired).  (Per things like WebMD, Mayo, etc - the more reliable types of sites).  Obviously the recommendations in any particular case are going to vary somewhat, but it seems like flexibility exercises (to prevent contractures) and mild general exercise (to maintain tone and basic strength, but not to tax someone very hard, which could cause damage) are recommended.  So, a little walking etc is probably good - it's just that they also need to use the wheelchair, probably much more than they do, to avoid tiring her unnecessarily, and to enhance her ability to participate in life.  

I remember the original prediction (well, based on what we see on TV), as being an expectation that as she grew, at about age 7, she would start to go downhill.  There was a certain element of uncertainty to that, of course, especially with an unusual variety of MD; but I also remember getting the sense that it simply had to do with her getting bigger, and her body size eventually becoming too much for her muscles to handle.  She has stayed quite small compared to her twin so far, though, so perhaps the reason she has done a little better than expected in those conversations is simply related to that.  

As for prayer, well, I don't believe in anything supernatural, but I do believe that prayer keeps the person utmost in your mind so that when you have something helpful to do for them, it is more likely to come to you; and, that it offers comfort, helping the person feel less alone in their struggles.  To the extent that I pray it is not that I think I am praying to something, but that I think the ritual has some value in connecting us to one another and refocusing us on things that matter - and I pray not for outcomes, but for the person affected to have the all the strength, patience, ease, perspective, sense of comfort, etc., that might help them cope with the hard things that face them.  I find that I interact differently with others when I do that, and that the interactions between us are better as a result, and it's interesting to wonder why, but to me it's a technique that taps a certain part of the human heart, for the good, rather than something that brings tangible results through any more mysterious power.  Obviously, they're looking at it differently, though (she's walking because you all prayed!), and so they may well be pushing things way too far - but maybe it's become a little more in line with the recommendations than they've been getting credit for.

Edited May 29, 2017 by akr
incomplete sentence

[SweetieDarling]

6 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

Has anyone watched the HBO documentary 'Mommy Dead and Dearest'?   It reminded me of Ali.  Without spoiling the documentary, the mother pretends the child has MS and keeps her in the wheelchair---- on TM, Ali is told she has MS and no one puts her in the wheelchair.

That was a very disturbing show. I felt so sorry for the daughter; she only knew what she was told, and did/said what she was told to (or else).  What an f'd up life  .Agreed -the polar opposite of Ali's situation.

[Christina87]

I bet that by the time Ali is conpletely wheelchair bound, the show will be over, and they will blame losing their audience's prayers for her deterioration. 

[Mkay]

Here is what the wheelchair is being used for. 

[druzy]

1 hour ago, Mkay said:

Here is what the wheelchair is being used for. 

“This is despicable @united,” she wrote in the caption. “How can you destroy a child’s wheelchair and turn the other cheek. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!

This is despicable @poppawjeff- how can you destroy a child's wheelchair and turn the other cheek. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE! 

[monicageller]

These people just get stupider. How could Jeff allow and post that and not think anything of it?! Don't answer that. I'm fuming at all of them. I feel so helpless.

[CofCinci]

6 hours ago, Christina87 said:

I bet that by the time Ali is conpletely wheelchair bound, the show will be over, and they will blame losing their audience's prayers for her deterioration. 

Or blame it on Ali herself.

[ghoulina]

I don't know why Jeff would take a picture and post it; but judging by his caption, I don't think he knew about it until after the fact. Nor approved. He put "great" in quotes, so it read sarcastic to me. And then he used a shocked face. But yea, I don't know why you wouldn't just reprimand them privately. 

[Miss Chevious]

They've been mis-using that wheelchair since they got it. I remember a scene where they had just gotten a loaner until Ali's new one was ready and Gracie & Addy were all over it, hanging from it like it was a jungle gym. 

[ghoulina]

Oh I know. I've just mostly seen that from Leah's camp. Cory has his faults, but I can't see him thinking the wheelchair is okay as a playground. I'm guessing the girlses got into that habit at their mama's house and tried it out with grandpa and he, hopefully, put a stop to it. 

[BXD]

http://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2017/05/31/another-teen-mom-2-divorce-leah-messers-sister-victoria-splits-from-husband/

Leah must be thrilled this guy is finally available!

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Get pregnant. Get married. Get divorced before child turns 3. Repeat. Then repeat. The repeat. Watch your kids repeat.....

I assume divorce lawyer is a relatively lucrative career in the holler.....

[monicageller]

Countdown until Leah starts dating him (if she isn't already)...

[Miss Chevious]

Yeah, get the deercam ready!

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I just realized.....with Kail and Jenelle having 3 babies by 3 baby daddies.....maybe it's times to give Leah a teeny, tiny, itty-bitty bit of credit. Since she got pregnant with the twins, she's *only* had one baby by another guy. She has 3 kids by two men, not three by three men and two of those (the twins, obviously) were the result of the same pregnancy. So if she hadn't have twins, she'd have two kids by two men, which for this crowd, is something kind of approaching admirable.  At least her custody drop-offs and holidays won't be as complicated as Jenelle's and Kail's. 

I think Leah learned how to use birth control properly and while she may have had that relationship with TR Dues and others, she doesn't seem to be looking for another baby daddy and new baby. Especially given her "anxiety" (cough, pulses, cough), that's definitely a smart move. So there, I said something nice about Leah....which hasn't happened in a while. Maybe she's figure out she doesn't need anymore kids.  Maybe she's actually one of the smarter and more mature girls on the show. (It hurts me to type that somewhat.) Take note, Kail & Jenelle. I just said Leah was smarter....

(And I hope I didn't just jinx it by posting this and we'll so learn she's pregnant.)

[GreatKazu]

8 minutes ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

I just realized.....with Kail and Jenelle having 3 babies by 3 baby daddies.....maybe it's times to give Leah a teeny, tiny, itty-bitty bit of credit. Since she got pregnant with the twins, she's *only* had one baby by another guy. She has 3 kids by two men, not three by three men and two of those (the twins, obviously) were the result of the same pregnancy. So if she hadn't have twins, she'd have two kids by two men, which for this crowd, is something kind of approaching admirable.  At least her custody drop-offs and holidays won't be as complicated as Jenelle's and Kail's. 

I think Leah learned how to use birth control properly and while she may have had that relationship with TR Dues and others, she doesn't seem to be looking for another baby daddy and new baby. Especially given her "anxiety" (cough, pulses, cough), that's definitely a smart move. So there, I said something nice about Leah....which hasn't happened in a while. Maybe she's figure out she doesn't need anymore kids.  Maybe she's actually one of the smarter and more mature girls on the show. (It hurts me to type that somewhat.) Take note, Kail & Jenelle. I just said Leah was smarter....

(And I hope I didn't just jinx it by posting this and we'll so learn she's pregnant.)

You forgot about her miscarriage with Jeremy before she had Adderrall. It still would have been two baby daddies, but she could have ended up with four kids by two guys. JesusGodLeah!

3 hours ago, monicageller said:

Countdown until Leah starts dating him (if she isn't already)...

Dating or screwing him? I don't think Leah knows how to date. 

[monicageller]

I was going to edit it to banging! Let's be real, there's no difference between dating and screwing in LeahLand.

[Tatum]

8 hours ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

I just realized.....with Kail and Jenelle having 3 babies by 3 baby daddies.....maybe it's times to give Leah a teeny, tiny, itty-bitty bit of credit. Since she got pregnant with the twins, she's *only* had one baby by another guy. She has 3 kids by two men, not three by three men and two of those (the twins, obviously) were the result of the same pregnancy. So if she hadn't have twins, she'd have two kids by two men, which for this crowd, is something kind of approaching admirable.  At least her custody drop-offs and holidays won't be as complicated as Jenelle's and Kail's. 

I think Leah learned how to use birth control properly and while she may have had that relationship with TR Dues and others, she doesn't seem to be looking for another baby daddy and new baby. Especially given her "anxiety" (cough, pulses, cough), that's definitely a smart move. So there, I said something nice about Leah....which hasn't happened in a while. Maybe she's figure out she doesn't need anymore kids.  Maybe she's actually one of the smarter and more mature girls on the show. (It hurts me to type that somewhat.) Take note, Kail & Jenelle. I just said Leah was smarter....

(And I hope I didn't just jinx it by posting this and we'll so learn she's pregnant.)

I've been reasonably impressed that Leah hasn't gotten pregnant since Addy- no matter what her reasons, I still consider that a win.

 

Dollars to donuts though that Leah was fucking her brother in law before the divorce was even a thing.

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, Tatum said:

I've been reasonably impressed that Leah hasn't gotten pregnant since Addy- no matter what her reasons, I still consider that a win.

 

Dollars to donuts though that Leah was fucking her brother in law before the divorce was even a thing.

I think Leah knows she is in over her head. I also thinks she realizes that she did land a good one in the Dad department with Cory and a high earner in Jeremy. I could see her not having another unless she comes across a guy that doesn't have any and wants one. But given her demographic many guys her age would probably already have at least one kid, and might not be interested in another. 

Also I can say a lot of things about jeremy's character but Addy is his only child- looking at his circle that tells me he's SOMEWHAT responsible. 

[Calm81]

5 hours ago, Tatum said:

I've been reasonably impressed that Leah hasn't gotten pregnant since Addy- no matter what her reasons, I still consider that a win.

 

Dollars to donuts though that Leah was fucking her brother in law before the divorce was even a thing.

Victoria's brother is too ugly for Leah (and doesn't appear to have a high paying job). I don't have much faith in Leah but I have to say she'd find someone a bit cuter and not her sisters leftovers. They're close sisters but you never know after popping pillses and drinking it could happen but I hope not lol. That dude was dumb as rocks. Actually, rocks are smarter.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Calm81

[ghoulina]

17 hours ago, monicageller said:

Countdown until Leah starts dating him (if she isn't already)...

 

17 hours ago, Miss Chevious said:

Yeah, get the deercam ready!

Who's shorts will Germy be wearing next???

[BitterApple]

I wonder if drug use was behind the divorce. The whole family looks like skeezy meth heads, but Victoria's dropped like forty or fifty pounds in the last year and I don't think it's due to diet and exercise. Maybe hubby got tired of supporting her habit and bailed.

[GreatKazu]

52 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

 

Who's shorts will Germy be wearing next???

Jeff's. 

[Tatum]

1 hour ago, Calm81 said:

Victoria's brother is too ugly for Leah (and doesn't appear to have a high paying job). I don't have much faith in Leah but I have to say she'd find someone a bit cuter and not her sisters leftovers. They're close sisters but you never know after popping pillses and drinking it could happen but I hope not lol. That dude was dumb as rocks. Actually, rocks are smarter.

Eh, I don't think he's any worse looking than Corey or Jeremy was before Jeremy lost some weight in the face and grew the beard to hide his weak chin. Also based on Jeremy's twitter rants I don't think he's much of an intellectual himself.

On some of the scenes from last season, Leah and the BIL seem a little flirtatious with each other and I had actually commented awhile back that Leah's likely gotten drunk or high and fucked her BIL at least once.

[ReadMeLattice]

On 5/30/2017 at 8:38 AM, ghoulina said:

Oh I know. I've just mostly seen that from Leah's camp. Cory has his faults, but I can't see him thinking the wheelchair is okay as a playground. I'm guessing the girlses got into that habit at their mama's house and tried it out with grandpa and he, hopefully, put a stop to it. 

I haven't seen any evidence that Corey is better re: the wheelchair. Everything else on earth, yes, but her disability no. 

To the poster above-- the variations of MS are all very different. Ali has a rare, severe, particularly progressive form. I know people in their 30s with MS and full time jobs, fully self sufficient, etc. Many do exercise. Ali's disorder is very rare, hence the specialist that they ignore. So I think whatever his recommendations were were specific to her form. 

On 6/1/2017 at 5:36 AM, Tatum said:

I've been reasonably impressed that Leah hasn't gotten pregnant since Addy- no matter what her reasons, I still consider that a win.

Isn't it sad that this is impressive in these circles?! 

Edited June 2, 2017 by Lm2162

[GreatKazu]

On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 8:18 AM, Scarlett45 said:

 

Also I can say a lot of things about jeremy's character but Addy is his only child- looking at his circle that tells me he's SOMEWHAT responsible. 

Actually, he impregnated Leah twice. Her first pregnancy resulted in a miscarriage. He then pushed her to have another baby immediately when Leah was unsure of their relationship. She was also torn between him and Cory. 

[ReadMeLattice]

On 5/23/2017 at 2:45 PM, poopchute said:

lol determination and prayer.  These fucking simpletons.

Wow this is truly disgusting. Honestly I think it's child abuse or at least neglect. 

Plenty of people are wheelchair users and live full lives. There is nothing wrong with or less than about not walking. She's a smart girl. They should be encouraging that side of her and her other talents. She will end up being a wheelchair user either way and in one way, she will live longer and have less pain. In another, she's forced to do things that she's not physically capable of. I can't imagine what that does to a child. Thinking of a wheelchair as a reduced/failed life is exactly what's going to depress and destroy her when it comes time to be in it full time. Not the wheelchair itself. I have zero sympathy for any of them anymore, this is just willful ignorance. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by Lm2162

[BitterApple]

N/m

Edited June 2, 2017 by BitterApple

[GreatKazu]

2 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Kail's had five pregnancies in a span of seven or eight years. I agree the dwindling fertility excuse is a bunch of b.s.

I think you meant this for the Kail thread. :)

[BitterApple]

25 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

I think you meant this for the Kail thread. :)

Thanks, I got mixed up!

[ghoulina]

3 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

I haven't seen any evidence that Corey is better re: the wheelchair. Everything else on earth, yes, but her disability no. 

I know he's not better about making sure Ali uses it. But I just don't see him allowing it as a toy. I'm basing this on what we've seen of their parenting styles. Leah tends to either be completely oblivious to what they're doing or freaking the fuck out. Cory has always seemed very no-nonsense. He seems quick to correct them when they're not behaving appropriately. Despite him not utilizing the chair as he should, I think he's sensible enough to know how expensive those things are and now allow the kids to play on it. 

[leighroda]

While I agree on the kid count that it is kinda weird that Jenelle and Kail surpassed her in the baby daddy count (which is a true testament to how messed up leah has been if Jenelle surpassing your baby daddy count is an accomplishment) but she still has had 2 divorces before she's 25, so I'm not really willing to give her a pat on the back. That being said, it does seem like she is growing up and getting things together, she's been relatively drama free for a while. I don't think she's mother of the year or anything, I have ridiculously low standards for her, but there has been *some* improvement on her part, or she's gotten better at hiding the crazy.

[GreatKazu]

3 hours ago, leighroda said:

While I agree on the kid count that it is kinda weird that Jenelle and Kail surpassed her in the baby daddy count (which is a true testament to how messed up leah has been if Jenelle surpassing your baby daddy count is an accomplishment) but she still has had 2 divorces before she's 25, so I'm not really willing to give her a pat on the back. That being said, it does seem like she is growing up and getting things together, she's been relatively drama free for a while. I don't think she's mother of the year or anything, I have ridiculously low standards for her, but there has been *some* improvement on her part, or she's gotten better at hiding the crazy.

Exactly. Then, there is Ms. Messer's admission to having had "only 7 guys" by the time she was 17 years of age. Mind you, she said herself she started dating at the age of 13 years of age.  

Let's not forget she moved Mr. T.R. Dues into her home along with his two kids. Leah was tending to FIVE children. She can't even take care of the three she has and there she was with five children under her wing. 

Kail and Jenelle share far too many things in common. Leah is in her own special circle. 

How about pets? Who is the worst? Does Amber beat Jenelle in that department? 

[TwirlyGirly]

9 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

Wow this is truly disgusting. Honestly I think it's child abuse or at least neglect. 

Plenty of people are wheelchair users and live full lives. There is nothing wrong with or less than about not walking. She's a smart girl. They should be encouraging that side of her and her other talents. She will end up being a wheelchair user either way and in one way, she will live longer and have less pain. In another, she's forced to do things that she's not physically capable of. I can't imagine what that does to a child. Thinking of a wheelchair as a reduced/failed life is exactly what's going to depress and destroy her when it comes time to be in it full time. Not the wheelchair itself. I have zero sympathy for any of them anymore, this is just willful ignorance. 

THANK YOU.

Allow me to add one more little fact. It is incorrect for people to assume a person who has a disability and uses a wheelchair for mobility is more disabled and less independent than a person who walks. As a matter of fact, I'd wager there are many PWD's (people with disabilities) who walk not because it is easier for them and allows them more independence, but because of the perception so many able-bodied folk that those who use wheelchairs are helpless and dependent on others.

I use a manual wheelchair full-time for mobility. I've lived independently my entire adult life. I do not now, nor have I ever - had an aide or attendant. I drive (a VW Beetle Convertible). I do all my own shopping, cook from scratch, and do all my own housekeeping, financial management, etc. I worked full-time for a major commercial airline for 22 years. So yes, up until I was involved in a hit-and-run accident many years ago (which didn't cause my disability - I've been disabled since birth - but it certainly made things worse), I was financially independent as well.

I also raised my daughter (she just turned 21!) entirely on my own (no financial or physical help). And lest anyone think my daughter was responsible for caring for me while she was growing up - she is likewise disabled, and also uses a wheelchair for mobility. She's in college now, and plans to be an epidemiologist.

And yet - if Leah (or any of the other Teen Moms we chat about here) and I were side-by-side, and someone who knew nothing about either one of us was asked "Which of these two women lives the most independently, and is least reliant on help from others in their everyday lives?" - which one of us would most people choose?

Walking is just a method to get someone from point "A" to point "B" - as is wheeling. It says nothing about what the person is capable of doing (or not capable of doing) once they get there. I'd like it very much if folks would stop making value judgments of people (here's looking at YOU, Leah) based solely on how that person moves through the world. It's meaningless.

THAT is what Leah should be teaching her children.