S01.E10: Silence Lay Steadily

[Sakura12]

I think were there longer than 3 days, Hugh said something about wanting to be out of there by now. So were there for a couple months. The 3 days was when Liv got really bad

[Ilovepie]

Can someone explain whether the ghosts are tied to the house or not? It seems that Nell and Olivia were able to appear elsewhere, but Olivia’s conversation with Hugh made it sound like she’s been stuck in the house since she died. There were instances of more than one person seeing Nell at the same time so it seems she was able to leave the house after she died. Was she special? 

[Peanut6711]

3 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I think were there longer than 3 days, Hugh said something about wanting to be out of there by now. So were there for a couple months. The 3 days was when Liv got really bad

Yes they were there longer than 3 days.  Hugh says their (his and Liv's) marriage was good except for the last 3 days when they weren't themselves.  He also says they were only supposed to be there 8 weeks. They arrived in the summer, and Olivia says in her conversation w/Mrs. Dudley that they still hoped to be out by the end of summer  so they are only there about 2 months. 

[Paloma]

On 10/31/2018 at 12:22 AM, Proclone said:

On 10/29/2018 at 9:55 AM, Straycat80 said:

I’m not a fan of scary/horror shows, I watched the first episode because of the hype this show was getting in the media and I got sucked in. I had never heard of this story (book) before. 

I thought the writing was good as well as the acting and all around cast. There were a couple episodes I thought were too draggy (funeral home) and some long winded dialogues I started getting bored with. 

I guess I’m in the minority that I liked the ending but I’m a sucker for happy endings. My only complaints ( and I’m nit picking here) was that I wished they would have swown some history on the ghosts. Did flapper lady kill her kids for real? Why was hat guy levatated? Was Olivia really mentally ill or did the house make her go crazy? I didn’t know Abby was real until she drank the poisoned tea, why was she always dressed in old timey clothes and who was the ghost lady who took her hand and walked away with her when she died? Her parents said they never came to the house after dark so how where they seeing dead infant ghost? How was Steve’s wife pregnant at the end ? 

I don’t know how there can be a season 2 of this but if there is I would watch it. 

I didn't mind the ending either.  Part of my dislike of horror movies, in general, is that they typically wind up as shaggy dog stories at best, and shoot the shaggy dog stories at worst.  I don't, by in large, hate tragic endings but endings in the horror genre are often nihilistic and cruel IMO, just for the sake of getting one last jump scare.  And quite frankly I don't want to get invested in the character(s) and their growth only to have it all snuffed out at the last moment, so the filmmakers can have a "shocking" ending.

I also would have liked a little more history on the ghosts, but I did like that by in large they seemed benign.  There's the Del Toro movie, Crimson Peak where the main character says something to the effect of "It's not a ghost story, it's a story with ghosts."  I feel like this is similar.  It's more a story of the Craine Family then it was about the ghosts.  The house seems to collect souls, but the souls themselves, save Poppy and the thing in the basement, don't seem to want to hurt anyone.  The tall man was just looking for his hat and most the others seem to be milling around.  I also assumed he was the William Hill that was found bricked up in the wall.  Poppy says something to the effect of him wanting to feel tall and now he is, so I assume he both looks stretched out and levitates for that reason.  I wouldn't be surprised if Poppy did kill her own children, as she was apparently mentally ill even prior to Hill House.  And I took the old woman who took Abigail's hand to be Hazel(?) the member of the Hill family that Mrs. Dudley took care of.  It made sense to me that woman who was taken care of by Clara would want to take care of her daughter, YMMV.

The Dudley also explained that the used to stay in the house at night, but after their first child was stillborn (she probably died when Clara was in the house but wasn't born until later) they heard the baby crying and decided to no longer go there at night.

I don't think Oliva was crazy, per say, prior to Hill House.  I think that like her daughters she was sensitive, but unlike her daughters was perhaps not grounded enough to realize what was going on.  The house worked on cutting her connection to Hugh who was always busy and that allowed her to fly away.  I also don't think it helped that Poppy seemed to take a particular interest in Oliva, because as I said Poppy seemed like one of the few truly malevolent spirits in the house.

As for Steve's wife being pregnant, either he reversed the vasectomy (doesn't always work, but not impossible) or they decided to use a sperm donor.  

I understand everyone's complaints but was satisfied with the ending even though I knew it was a bit manipulative in a "This Is Us" way. I was teary through much of the episode but it felt right because ultimately it was a story about family trauma and relationships as much as a horror story, and these genres were blended well. However, like Straycat80, I would have liked more answers to the supernatural as well as real-life mysteries, though I agree with Proclone about the levitating hat guy,  Olivia's initial sanity and Poppy's malevolent influence, and how Steve's wife got pregnant. I'm still not sure about who led ghost Abigail away, but I think it was suggested that William Hill (the tall hat guy) had an affair with Dudley's mother and Dudley was their illegitimate child, so the woman who led Abigail away could have been her grandmother (Dudley's mother). The explanatory video that Dirtybubble provided a link to was very helpful in clarifying this and other confusing things about the show.

On 11/3/2018 at 9:11 AM, Dirtybubble said:

I found this video and the narrator really helps explain the little details of the show and especially the ending

https://youtu.be/2NIbnMx5cZU

This video also supports my feeling that the (mostly) happy ending was justified because the survivors confronted their internal and external demons, allowing them to move on with their lives. I'm OK with the idea that the house let them go because they faced their fears there and did not allow themselves to be "digested." I'm also OK with the idea that ghost Olivia was able to face down the malevolent Poppy and put her love for her husband and children above her fears of being alone and having her children deal with the monsters of the real world.

On 11/3/2018 at 3:44 AM, ForeverAlone said:

I don't feel that Stephen deserved his happy little ending with a happy family. His behavior toward Leigh was rather unforgivable in my opinion. He lied to her for years, and he probably didn't ever tell her the truth. I always assumed she found out that she wasn't getting pregnant, after the fertility doctor had tested his semen and realized he had a vasectomy. He just seemed too cowardly to ever own up to that truth, when he had every opportunity prior to that. She had every right to leave him, and I don't know why she took him back. We never even saw his pitch to her begging for her forgiveness. We are just supposed to assume it happened, and then what? He had a complete change of heart about children and had a vasectomy reversal?

As I posted in an earlier episode thread, I do have sympathy for Steve despite his terrible behavior toward Leigh, because he was so traumatized and messed up by his childhood experiences; that the only way he could survive as an apparently stable person was to be in complete denial and to keep secrets. In any case, in this episode they did show him admitting he was wrong about everything and begging for her forgiveness (not sure if he actually said "beg for your forgiveness" but his speech was clearly leading to that) when he eventually returned to their home. I do think he had a change of heart about children because once he faced his demons and understood the truth about what happened in the haunted house, he realized that he didn't have "bad genes" and that any children he had were not doomed to experience the trauma that he and his family did. I'm sure it took him a while to reach that point, but Leigh looked a few months pregnant in the happy ending scene that was about 2 years later, so that seems a reasonable amount of time for him to have worked through his issues and for them to have been in marriage counseling for a while (I have to assume there was counseling to be able to accept the happy marital ending). 

On 11/3/2018 at 3:44 AM, ForeverAlone said:

I had no issue with Shirley and her husband reconciling, because she had one transgression years ago. Yes, she needs to grovel an apology for her hypocrisy, but I couldn't see her marriage ending over that one mistake. Considering he took the "blood money" from the book, I would say they are even when it comes to lies.

I thought Theo treated Trish liked garbage most of the series, and couldn't understand why Trish would want to be in a relationship with Theo. 

I mostly agree about Shirley and her husband being even, though it can be harder to accept sexual infidelity than other wrongdoing in a marriage. I completely agree about Theo and Trish being unbelievable as a happy couple; I feel like the writers just had them end up together because they didn't want to introduce a new character in the last couple of scenes of the series.

Even though I have no big complaints about this ending and think this was an excellent series overall, I have no interest in a second season or even a prequel, because I don't think I would be as invested in new (or old) characters as I was in this family.

[methodwriter85]

On 10/29/2018 at 9:55 AM, Straycat80 said:

I guess I’m in the minority that I liked the ending but I’m a sucker for happy endings. My only complaints ( and I’m nit picking here) was that I wished they would have swown some history on the ghosts.

Yeah, I was fine with it and honestly I'm kind of surprised at the negative reaction. I do know that if I had been given the "they are all still trapped" in the Red Room ending I would've been pissed.

This does need to be a one-and-done series, though.

Edited November 5, 2018 by methodwriter85

[SHD]

They made a point to show the clocks when the different adult children would wake up gasping. East coast it was 3:03 AM, West coast it was 12:03 AM. Did they ever mention what the significance of that time was?

[Dirtybubble]

On 11/4/2018 at 8:36 AM, JenE4 said:

Thank you for sharing! This video is very well done in “college English major literary analysis fashion.” I think amongst the group we all picked up on most of these details along the way, but having this summation really helps to pull together the details and dialogue you may have forgotten that builds to the conclusion. It seems that many of us were left with the impression that this ending was tacked on and didn’t fit with the rest of the series, but this video really pulls it together that it is a logical and satisfying conclusion.

I'm glad you liked it as much as I did.  Because I didn't binge watch this show (I watched over a span of a month) I had actually forgotten little details of the show that pieced everything together in the end.  All in all I liked this show; I've read on other sites that viewers feel it's a rip off of Ryan Murphy's first season of AHS:  Murder House and while yeah it's similar I still enjoyed it.  I'll watch the 2nd season for sure!

[Sakura12]

1 minute ago, Dirtybubble said:

I'm glad you liked it as much as I did.  Because I didn't binge watch this show (I watched over a span of a month) I had actually forgotten little details of the show that pieced everything together in the end.  All in all I liked this show; I've read on other sites that viewers feel it's a rip off of Ryan Murphy's first season of AHS:  Murder House and while yeah it's similar I still enjoyed it.  I'll watch the 2nd season for sure!

I've been telling people this show is a better version of AHS: Murder House. 

[Paloma]

1 hour ago, SHD said:

They made a point to show the clocks when the different adult children would wake up gasping. East coast it was 3:03 AM, West coast it was 12:03 AM. Did they ever mention what the significance of that time was?

I thought that was when Nelly died, but that could be wrong.

[SHD]

4 minutes ago, Paloma said:

I thought that was when Nelly died, but that could be wrong.

That would make sense...I guess we were supposed to figure that out because they also grabbed their necks. Thanks!

[methodwriter85]

This show reminded me a lot of the Conjuring especially with the mom's plot and the happy ending vibes.

[MaggieG]

On 11/5/2018 at 10:47 AM, SHD said:

They made a point to show the clocks when the different adult children would wake up gasping. East coast it was 3:03 AM, West coast it was 12:03 AM. Did they ever mention what the significance of that time was?

 

On 11/5/2018 at 11:51 AM, Paloma said:

I thought that was when Nelly died, but that could be wrong.

 

On 11/5/2018 at 11:56 AM, SHD said:

That would make sense...I guess we were supposed to figure that out because they also grabbed their necks. Thanks!

I think 3:03 AM is supposed to be the witching hour. But I think it could also be when Nell dies.

[The Mighty Peanut]

Ok, so I had this thought during the speechifying in the room of requirement that it would be funny if the hat ghost came in and asked if anyone had seen his hat.

Also, I'm trying to figure out if the ghosts can just ghost up awesome scenarios, if it is a 24/7 happy fun time house, or can it only do that when it's trying to kill someone? Could Nell continue to have Arthur 2.0? Olivia seemed to have a lot of control over the house, is that something that manifests with time? Could she make a permanent Arthur? (I realize I'm obsessed with Arthur. He's hot, sue me). Nell seemed to imply there was a downside to being a spectre, but Olivia was only upset because she was lonely. The house pushed Olivia to believe the best way to protect her children was by killing them--a belief she apparently held on to after death. But, Poppy aside, the ghosts don't seem evil. Does mental state at the time of death become their permanent state? Is Poppy the villain and everyone else bystanders?

I did think it was very sweet how Nell protected her twin to the very end by telling him NOT to sit down and put on the hat, even though it meant not having Luke with her.

I realize  this won't be a popular opinion but I don't think Shirley should have confessed that affair. It was 6 years ago and meaningless, because she was miserable and not facing her own severe and complex trauma. That doesn't make it excuseable--not at all--but if was truly an aberration in an otherwise happy marriage, I personally don't think that burden should have been placed on Kevin. YMMV.

Also, God, what a dick move to ask Kevin to hold HER hand while SHE fell. He is the victim!

Edited November 9, 2018 by The Mighty Peanut

[Paloma]

9 hours ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

I realize  this won't be a popular opinion but I don't think Shirley should have confessed that affair. It was 6 years ago and meaningless, because she was miserable and not facing her own severe and complex trauma. That doesn't make it excuseable--not at all--but if was truly an aberration in an otherwise happy marriage, I personally don't think that burden should have been placed on Kevin. YMMV.

Also, God, what a dick move to ask Kevin to hold HER hand while SHE fell. He is the victim!

I think her confessing was part of the necessary "facing your demons" (literally and metaphorically) process that they all had to go through in order to move forward with their lives. But I agree that it was outrageous to make Kevin comfort and support her while she confessed, like she was the victim. 

[violetr]

I just watched the final ep tonight and sobbed all the way through it. I thought it was fucking brilliant. To me, the best horror is metaphorical and, yes, redemptive. This poor goddamn family suffered so deeply, but finally realized in the end that their love for each other - despite all the dysfunction - was more powerful than anything else they could encounter. I didn't find it sentimental - I found it genuine. This is art. 5 stars. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by violetr

[Kid]

On 10/17/2018 at 12:19 PM, rainsmom said:

I'm left with questions.

First, I feel like what happened with dad and the police is a huge hole. He lost custody of his kids, but WHAT HAPPENED? Did he go to jail? If not, why did he lose custody?

Second, who the hell is the clock ghost? Why would he be in the house? Is he doomed to spend eternity tinkering with that clock? Man, sucks to be him.

Third, still not getting why this is happening. The house is lonely? Here's a hint: Don't terrorize people, and people will live there.

I also have a question. When Hugh was being interrogated by the police, the police officer mentioned the other body. That had to be Abigail. But, in the last episode,  it is revealed that Hugh let the Dudley’s take the child out of the house and bury her.  So there is a disconnect there or I missed something.

[Sakura12]

I think the other body is the skeleton they found in the wall, aka creepy cane man.

[Peanut6711]

On 11/9/2018 at 10:52 AM, The Mighty Peanut said:

Ok, so I had this thought during the speechifying in the room of requirement that it would be funny if the hat ghost came in and asked if anyone had seen his hat.

Also, I'm trying to figure out if the ghosts can just ghost up awesome scenarios, if it is a 24/7 happy fun time house, or can it only do that when it's trying to kill someone? Could Nell continue to have Arthur 2.0? Olivia seemed to have a lot of control over the house, is that something that manifests with time? Could she make a permanent Arthur? (I realize I'm obsessed with Arthur. He's hot, sue me). Nell seemed to imply there was a downside to being a spectre, but Olivia was only upset because she was lonely. The house pushed Olivia to believe the best way to protect her children was by killing them--a belief she apparently held on to after death. But, Poppy aside, the ghosts don't seem evil. Does mental state at the time of death become their permanent state? Is Poppy the villain and everyone else bystanders?

I did think it was very sweet how Nell protected her twin to the very end by telling him NOT to sit down and put on the hat, even though it meant not having Luke with her.

I realize  this won't be a popular opinion but I don't think Shirley should have confessed that affair. It was 6 years ago and meaningless, because she was miserable and not facing her own severe and complex trauma. That doesn't make it excuseable--not at all--but if was truly an aberration in an otherwise happy marriage, I personally don't think that burden should have been placed on Kevin. YMMV.

Also, God, what a dick move to ask Kevin to hold HER hand while SHE fell. He is the victim!

I kinda feel the same way about Shirley confessing the affair. It alleviated her guilt, sure. But then it put tremendous pressure on Kevin to forgive her. Still not a healthy marital situation. Seems it would have been better for Shirley to deal with her issues through therapy.  

I would have liked to see Nell and Arthur reunited as well.  It almost seemed like his death was connected to the house even if he didn't die there.

I too found the presentations of the ghosts a little murky, conflicting. Nell seems enlightened in death. Most of the rest of the ghosts do not.  I can't help but read a little critique of religion in the whole thing.  Olivia, influenced by Poppy (the ethereal evangelist), believes they will be safe and together in death, free of the real world's dangers, much like the promise of heaven. Mrs. Dudley suggests to young Steven that knowledge and belief in the gospels offer protection, but that doesn't save her own daughter. Interestingly, in the end the Dudley's choose the house for eternal life.  If I was an English major once again I'm sure I could craft an analysis paper on that theme/topic and keep going ;-) 

 

On 11/15/2018 at 1:23 PM, Kid said:

Quote

First, I feel like what happened with dad and the police is a huge hole. He lost custody of his kids, but WHAT HAPPENED? Did he go to jail? If not, why did he lose custody?

I also have a question. When Hugh was being interrogated by the police, the police officer mentioned the other body. That had to be Abigail. But, in the last episode,  it is revealed that Hugh let the Dudley’s take the child out of the house and bury her.  So there is a disconnect there or I missed something.

 

Having just re-watched the first episode, in the scene where Steven is with his dad and the attorney (the scene where Hugh says he wants the house left alone and the only people there to be the Dudleys) Hugh also states/confirms that he was not charged or arrested. It appears the custody dispute was between Hugh and Aunt Janet. I'm going to assume Janet, Olivia's sister, felt Hugh was not suitable to raise the kids after Olivia died on his watch, so to speak. No doubt, she resented him for it. 

I also think the body that the cop refers to is the Tall Man who buried himself in the walls.  

[Dev F]

6 hours ago, Peanut6711 said:

I too found the presentations of the ghosts a little murky, conflicting. Nell seems enlightened in death. Most of the rest of the ghosts do not.

That didn't really bother me, since Nell's enlightenment seemed to derive from the specific circumstances of her ghosting, not the mere fact that she became a ghost. That is, her climactic realization that "our moments fall around us like rain" instead of progressing in an inevitable line seems to derive from her discovery that she herself was the Bent-Neck Lady all along. As far as we know, none of the other ghosts received a similarly meaningful revelation when they died, so it makes sense that they didn't find the process all that enlightening.

Quote

It appears the custody dispute was between Hugh and Aunt Janet. I'm going to assume Janet, Olivia's sister, felt Hugh was not suitable to raise the kids after Olivia died on his watch, so to speak. No doubt, she resented him for it. 

Yep. And the lawyer argues that if Hugh doesn't tamp down the haunted house talk and let the kids testify about what happened that last night at Hill House, it's all but inevitable that the judge will rule against him. There's not really any missing information; Hugh did exactly what he said he was going to do in the hearing, and the results were exactly what his lawyer said they would be -- Aunt Janet was awarded custody.

[announcergirl]

On 10/31/2018 at 1:13 PM, iMonrey said:

I liked the series overall but I did find the last episode to be a bit heavy on the psychobabble. Most of the pieces ended up fitting together okay but there were still a lot of unanswered questions. When the kids were still living in the house, it appears that the banging they were hearing was coming from their siblings in some weird alternate timelines. So who or what was banging on the doors and windows of the funeral home when Shirley and Theo were fighting it out? Was the supposed to be some kind of manifestation of their fight or inner turmoil?

I don't need everything spelled out for me, necessarily, but I felt like the series refused to commit to either the supernatural or the psychological. Maybe they felt it was more interesting if left open to interpretation. And sure, in some ways it could be. But when you give both possibilities equal weight it just feels like you're just hedging your bet.

Like they could have brought in a ghost investigation team to explain things along the way. Or a historian, like other horror movies often do.

[llewis823]

On 10/14/2018 at 8:39 AM, rainsmom said:

The ending just didn't match the tone of the rest of the series.

I don't see how it can possibly have a second season -- not at Hill House.

You summed up my feelings about the ending exactly. As for a 2nd season, I heard somewhere they were going to make a prequel - the backstories of some of the other ghosts trapped in Hill House. The cray-cray flapper woman's story would probably be pretty interesting.

Edited December 4, 2018 by llewis823

[llewis823]

On 10/19/2018 at 5:22 PM, Kostgard said:

Then the fact that the Dudleys came to visit their ghost daughter through the years brings up another question - does that mean the Crains can just go visit their parents and sister whenever they want? If people can come into the house and interact with the ghosts, then why do people have to die in order to "stay in the house or stay together? Just live in the house until you die and then carrying on as ghosts. 

This...exactly.

[Sakura12]

I get being with your family but there are bunch of other ghosts I wouldn't want to live in that house with and have them creeping up on me whenever they feel like it. I'd rather live somewhere else and visit my family. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Sakura12

[Bec]

Could have been worse - at least we didn't get a surprise reveal that none of what we watched actually happened, it was just dreamt up by Steven for his novel. That's where I thought things were headed when Steven was suddenly back at home staring at his computer screen.

I can see how keeping everyone in the red room forever would have been too bleak, but the choice here isn't necessarily either "full dark no stars" or "full sap". Just a few tweaks could have cut the overly saccharine tone without being cruel to the characters.

It's okay to let about half the family survive. It's okay that they can feel a sense of closure and move on with their lives.

But Steven didn't have to get back together with his wife. Was anybody rooting for them to get back together? I relate to his reason for getting a vasectomy. Yet I still think he broke the trust with his wife too badly for their relationship to be salvageable. Besides, I'm not convinced he's cut out for fatherhood.

Theo didn't have to stick with Trish, either.

I care about the siblings' relationships with each other. It's enough to show they're there for each other. That already drives home the point that they're no longer emotionally "walled off" like before. I don't need to see nearly everybody paired off and pregnant to further confirm this. It's overkill.

And I would have preferred closing on music that sounds less like they're trying to make an episode of This Is Us.

If the music was just a touch creepier over the part where Mrs. Dudley decides to let her soul be stuck in the house forever so she can be with her children, it would have seemed a little less like our takeaway should be "Yay! The house is the best thing ever now! Everybody should want to die there!"

Cut out that "whatever walks there walks together" bullshit. I never even read the book and even I can tell messing with "whatever walked there walked alone" is not a good idea. You just come off like a pale imitation trying and failing to be deep.

They could have just used their nice piano music score right to the very end, with no Steven narration. He's my favorite character, but even I wanted him to shut the hell up.

The show is tantalisingly close to sticking the landing. Just a few adjustments could have made all the difference.

[Sakura12]

The actor who plays Luke thinks they are still in the red room at the end. Because whenever any of them were in that room something was red, their clothes, the furniture, the toys, etc... when they were celebrating his sorority his cake was bright red. 

An open ending would've worked better for me. Then I can determine if they got out and are happy or if they are still trapped thinking they were happy. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Sakura12

[methodwriter85]

On 12/5/2018 at 8:42 AM, Sakura12 said:

Because whenever any of them were in that room something was red, their clothes, the furniture, the toys, etc... when they were celebrating his sorority his cake was bright red. 

I know you meant sobriety but the thought of thirtysomething hunky addict Luke in a girly sorority made me giggle.

[Sakura12]

Haha I didn't even notice. Stupid auto correct. 

On 12/5/2018 at 7:42 AM, Sakura12 said:

The actor who plays Luke thinks they are still in the red room at the end. Because whenever any of them were in that room something was red, their clothes, the furniture, the toys, etc... when they were celebrating his sobriety his cake was bright red. 

An open ending would've worked better for me. Then I can determine if they got out and are happy or if they are still trapped thinking they were happy. 

 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Sakura12

[raven]

On 11/11/2018 at 1:26 AM, violetr said:

This poor goddamn family suffered so deeply, but finally realized in the end that their love for each other - despite all the dysfunction - was more powerful than anything else they could encounter. I didn't find it sentimental - I found it genuine.

I agree with this.  I binged the show over a couple of days and got drawn right in.  I thought all of the performances were first rate, with Timothy Hutton and the the various child actors standing out for me.    After Hugh and Steve enter the house for the last time and Bowler Hat Ghost was staring right at Steven; Hugh tell Steven to just keep looking at him (Hugh) just keep looking...I was on the edge of my seat, really. 

Except for the horrendous "whatever walked there, walked together" line- just don't do that, show - I was pleasantly surprised by the ending.  I was sure they were all going to end up being in the Red Room of Requirement so I'm glad that I was wrong about that.  It is pretty rare to get a semi-happy ending  in this type of show.  I found the ending bittersweet actually - I wouldn't want to be stuck for eternity in a big old house with a bunch of ghosts.  Poor Nell, stuck with her lovey-dovey ghost parents forever? *shudder*

I don't think the house was benevolent; it trapped you there after you died and worked on you while you alive, through the ghosts.  Though they didn't live in the house, my fanwank is that the Dudleys lived too close to it for too long, which is why they went along with the cover up of Olivia's death so easily.    Shirley Jackson's great line "Hill House, not sane" does fit this particular house - it's not sane but that doesn't make it evil or good.  It is something to avoid, however.

To varying degrees I found I sympathized with all of the Crains.  I think this is a testament to the writing as well as the acting; we had characters who had good points and flaws, which made them more realistic and easier to identify with.  Relationships are complicated, especially long ones, so I was fine that Steven and his wife and Shirley and her husband worked through their issues and stayed together; I didn't need to see therapy or arguments to get there.   Luke staying clean is a huge accomplishment, as was Theo opening herself up, which will hopefully make a her a better psychiatrist.  It's great that she could "see" that her patients were being abused and take steps to stop it, but when she tells the little girl to just build walls around herself so that no one could get in; that's not really good counsel.  

There was really no reason to call this "The Haunting of Hill House" except to generate interest.  I really enjoyed it though, complaints about using that title and Shirley Jackson's words aside.

[Shockandawe]

I am surprised no one picked up on one bad scene that totally ruined the whole series.

It is the scene where Hugh goes into the red room and finds his wife having a tea party with the kids. He pushes her against the wall and knocks her unconscious. What he does next totally defies logic and goes against his character - he pretty much freaks out and just leaves his wife lying there bleeding while he evacuated his kids. That’s just stupid.

A person of his character would’ve calmly carried his wife back to the bed, tied her hands up and then treated her head injury. She was knocked out, so he has the upper hand already, so there was no reason for him to freak out like he did. 

Whoever did the stupid writing for this scene should’ve got fired because this scene was a very important scene. Hugh’s stupid and uncharacteristic action led to the death of his wife.

The scene would’ve been more plausible if Hugh placed his wife on the bed(he still loves and cares for her, afterall), tied her hands up and then decided to evacuate the family from the evil house. After loading all the kids in the car, Hugh goes back to get his wife, but finds that she’s not where he had left her because  a ghost undid her tied up hands. He searches for her and He freaks out when he sees her holding a knife. She asks him why he’s taking the kids away from her, he tries to explain that she needs help and this house is evil but she doesn’t listen. So she chases him with the knife. He runs out of the house and into the car and drives off leaving his wife behind.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Shockandawe

[Head-Full-Of-Thi]

Hi there 😊

Watched the show a bit after everybody else and lurked in the forum but now I finished watching it!

This was an amazing series. The amount of thought im details and in building realistic characters is very rare in tv shows nowdays, even if it had some moments of not that great acting and  problems with the pacing. As a person who usually hates horror and only watched this series because of many recommendations I didn't have a problem with the shift from horror to drama, on the contrary.

 

There are a lot of comments in this thread about how the way the house was presented in the final didn't match the way it was presented in all the episodes leading to it, but I think that's the point, that's the whole twist.

Steven spent all those years thinking that the house was ordinary and his mother was mentally ill. Then Hugh told him that the house is actually haunted and also evil and after their family. But just because this version is more true than Steven's previous thoughts, doesn't mean that it's the absolute truth. In the end both of them were right in some way.

The house was haunted but it wasn't evil. I think it's really a neutral place in which the worlds of the living and the dead touch and space and time can be altered. There wasn't a true Evil in this series - all of the problems were because of the people - Poppy who was mentally ill and killed her children and convinced Olivia to do the same, Olivia who adopted Poppy's views, Hugh who handled everything the wrong way, and the siblings who kept hurting themselves and each other.

But the hopeful message of the show is that people, unlike ancient evil houses, can change. And just because they made the wrong choice once it doesn't mean they can't make a better choice now. And so Poppy doesn't change at all, Olivia changes a little (goes from wanting to kill everyone to accepting having only Hugh),  Secretive Hugh shares everything that happend with Steven, and the sibling each fixes the problems in their own lives. It doesn't mean they won't make new bad decision or face new problems, but that's just how life is. And I think it's a beautiful message.

 

I would also like to expand a little on the subject of Hugh's version of the events.

"That wasn't mom", "We weren't ourselves in the last few days" - once Hugh learns that the house is haunted he's all too eager to put all the blame on the house. But the truth is that it was them. It was Hugh who was so busy he didn't realise Olivia needed help until it was too late, and it was Olivia who tried to murder the twins. She wasn't possessed or doing it against her will. She was heavily manipulated, it's true, but there was still a part of her that accepted these manipulations very easily, and made her still hold to this belief even twenty years later.

I think Hugh realised it when he was talking to Olivia in the house, and that's when he knew how to save the kids. Because just as I said above, he couldn't persuade an house, but he sure can talk to his wife.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Luka1997
Wrong area bolded

[Mabinogia]

14 hours ago, Luka1997 said:

"That wasn't mom", "We weren't ourselves in the last few days" - once Hugh learns that the house is haunted he's all too eager to put all the blame on the house.

Ooh, I like that. I agree, he decided to blame the house rather than look more deeply into the issues in his family. Olivia needed help. I think she was a bit off before they got to the house, when they go there, the house just amplified her issues. He was so focused on getting the house flipped so they could make back the money they spent on it as well as make a profit that I think he ignored a lot of signs that they should just get the hell out of there. Then, when things went really bad, it was easier to just say "it was the house, the evil house tore us apart" but really I think the house just magnified the problems that already existed. 

Now, had they never come to Hill House perhaps they all would have lived nice, normal lives, but if a less damaged family had moved into Hill House I don't think they would have fallen into the same abyss this already slightly disfunctioning family plunged into. 

I like that it's not all the house's fault or all the people's fault but a toxic combination of the wrong people in the wrong house. 

It really was a great series overall. I loved the psychological side of it every bit as much as the supernatural side. They really did an amazing job at showing both. 

[bosawks]

After everything and seeing how it all panned out Mrs. Dudley’s description of the house being “as stupid and hungry as anything else” is, well, brutal.

[AuntiePam]

On 11/9/2018 at 9:52 AM, The Mighty Peanut said:

I realize  this won't be a popular opinion but I don't think Shirley should have confessed that affair. It was 6 years ago and meaningless, because she was miserable and not facing her own severe and complex trauma. That doesn't make it excuseable--not at all--but if was truly an aberration in an otherwise happy marriage, I personally don't think that burden should have been placed on Kevin. YMMV.

Also, God, what a dick move to ask Kevin to hold HER hand while SHE fell. He is the victim!

I've always felt this way about people who confess infidelity, especially if it was a one-time thing.  Unless you want the relationship to be over, shut up.  It might relieve your guilt but it's a selfish thing to do.  It puts a burden on your partner.

It's also a bit passive-aggressive, especially if the cheating is in response to the partner also cheating.  "See!  I'm attractive to someone else!" 

I was also disappointed in the ending, but a large part of that was my dislike for the actress who played Olivia.  She reminds me so much of a relative who tells long boring stories about mundane happenings, expecting the trapped listener to hang on every word.  I'm always left wondering "Is that all there is?"  Olivia was a bore.  The character needed more energy -- she was way too passive.

I really liked the reveal about the Red Room. 

[Hanahope]

So I just watched this over the last few days.  A few thoughts I didn’t see here.

1.  Hugh never saw a ghost until he dropped off the kids at the motel and returned for Olivia.  What he did see was his somewhat ‘flighty’ wife go crazy in 3 days when she drew the forever house all over the architectural drawings, smash the mirror of a vanity decorated by her son, and wake up to his wife holding a screwdriver to his neck.  Then he finds her serving rat poison to the kids, when she was supposed to have been at his sister’s.  Of course he thinks she’s snapped and is a danger to the kids. And it looks like only when he goes to get Steven he may have seen the other ghosts.  So he gets them safe, then returns to get her.  He didn’t think the house would kill her.  Only when he returns, sees the ghosts of Abigail and Olivia does he seem to really understand the house and it’s role in driving Olivia crazy.  And of course, he’s read Steven’s book and puts more together.

2.  The day/night of Nell’s funeral is Halloween, which is supposed to be when the veil between the living and dead is at its weakest.  That’s why Olivia can smash the forever house, try to grab Luke at the grave, and bang about Shirley’s house.  Those are more physical manifestations than Luke seeing the bowler hat man.

3.  Hugh was dead when he opened the red door and released the adult kids.  When they leave the room, Theo and Shirl walk past the iron stair case landing quickly.  Steve and Hugh are carrying Luke.  Steve pauses at the landing doorway and looks down, with a look on his face.  Hugh, on the other side of Luke says come on, let’s go.  I think Steve looked down and saw Hugh’s body on the landing.  Again, it’s Halloween, spirits have more “freedom” and Hugh was able to “leave” the house to the car and tell his daughters goodbye.

4.  Nell had a bad therapist/psychiatrist. she also only saw the BNL at the home and when/after Arthur died.  It was warning her what would happen at the house, especially after she became depressed.  At least the story didn’t indicate she saw the BNL after they left the house and until Arthur died, only that she suffered from sleep paralysis. 
 

5.  Just because she’s not as closed off anymore doesn’t mean Theo should toss her gloves.  As she knows, there’s still a lot of other evil in the world.

[Mabinogia]

43 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

Just because she’s not as closed off anymore doesn’t mean Theo should toss her gloves.  As she knows, there’s still a lot of other evil in the world.

I kind of thought of it as Theo realizing that "hiding" from the horror by wearing gloves so she couldn't feel it didn't stop the evil from getting to her and those she loved, and deciding that it was worth the pain of feeling the horrors to be able to really feel those she loved. Or I read too much ino it. Theo was my favorite and I tend to build up the story of characters I like. 

[Neurochick]

On 10/14/2018 at 2:42 PM, Nancy Drew said:

I actually liked the end. The house might be evil, but these people's biggest problems were always themselves. Clara was so scarred by a stillborn daughter that she entombed her living daughter on the edge of Hill House, which eventually led to the girl's death. Her paranoia intersected with Olivia's, but in the end it was Olivia's mental illness that set the stage for the last, horrible night. Olivia kept giving her daughters coffins-literally in Shirl's case, in the form of a glove box for Theo and a button box for Nell. In some ways it was easier to blame ghosts, but Abigail was REAL and no one could see it. Nell was haunting herself. 

Did the house have an evil impact on everyone? It seemed like Hazel Hill lived and died a normal life, and like she had a daughter who did as well? I'd sign on to the watch the prequel, because I have lots of questions about the house pre-Cranes. 

I really liked the ending too.  Sure it might not have been what people wanted, but to me, the ending made sense. 

People are usually haunted by the things they've done or not done.  In the end Steven got back with his wife, who was pregnant in that last scene; Shirley was also back with her husband, even though she cheated on him; Theo threw away her gloves and was going with that woman she met in the bar, and Luke was celebrating two years clean, gladly not with that woman who left the rehab. 

Abigail's death bothered me because I didn't even know she was real until episode 9.  Her murder was very tragic.

The thing with Olivia....I wasn't 100% convinced that she was really mentally ill.  I mean, I don't have kids but if I did and I was able to see their deaths, see that their deaths were horrible and painful, that might drive me insane.  I think her insanity went full throttle when she saw Luke and Nell's deaths.  The comment she made to Hugh, "I wish I could freeze them so they'll be this age forever."  Keep them innocent.

What I got from this series was the lengths people will go to keep their children, or themselves safe.   It kind of reminds me of the Black Mirror episode "Archangel."  A mother wants to keep her daughter safe but ultimately she ends up doing more harm than good.

[Neurochick]

On 12/27/2018 at 6:54 PM, Shockandawe said:

I am surprised no one picked up on one bad scene that totally ruined the whole series.

It is the scene where Hugh goes into the red room and finds his wife having a tea party with the kids. He pushes her against the wall and knocks her unconscious. What he does next totally defies logic and goes against his character - he pretty much freaks out and just leaves his wife lying there bleeding while he evacuated his kids. That’s just stupid.

A person of his character would’ve calmly carried his wife back to the bed, tied her hands up and then treated her head injury. She was knocked out, so he has the upper hand already, so there was no reason for him to freak out like he did. 

I don't think anybody really knows exactly what they would do when confronted with something horrible.   I think in reality many people would do things that seemingly defy logic.

BTW, that scene didn't ruin the whole series for me.

[archer1267]

Quote

I was also disappointed in the ending, but a large part of that was my dislike for the actress who played Olivia. 

I rewatched this series this week (when I binge-watch something I tend to forget it pretty quickly) and found myself REALLY being annoyed by Olivia, beyond her killing a child. I think it was the way she appeared as a ghost to Hugh, always providing him sage counsel on the right thing to say and do to their kids, while I'd be thinking shut up, you tried to kill your own kids, you don't get to lecture on what correct parenting is. But it was disappointing that THAT Olivia was just a figment of his imagination all along, as she said. So, instead of committing himself to an eternity with the reasonably normal wife he had before the house consumed her, he gets to spend it with the version who's still delusional and unrepentant. (AND he gets to fend out countless come-ons from Poppy!) Hard to feel good about that. Ditto Nell being there too, and without Arthur. One of the saddest parts of the last episode was Young Nell telling Adult Luke not to sit down, not to put on the bowler hat. She knew what was coming and didn't want him to be tricked.

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by archer1267

[Aliferously]

I thought the final episode was slow going for the first three quarters because they were basically being guilt tripped while knocked out.

But those last fifteen minutes slayed me.

There were so many ghosts in that house, and it stopped being scary and then it was just sad. I wept buckets over Nell's goodbye speech and Steve's closing monologue. 

[SlovakPrincess]

So that was all terrifying and I shouldn't have binge watched it late into the night and before bed!  But also ... kinda soul-crushingly sad?

I felt so bad for Nell.  Arthur's sudden death was just so tragic.  I still can't believe she went to the house at night and by herself, though I guess she was simply drawn there in the end ... the most terrifying part was that the house's influence extended way beyond the physical structure, and they could never truly escape it.

I also felt horrible for Hugh, having basically lost his relationship with his kids all those years.  Poor guy really didn't deserve that!  

I really liked all the siblings, even Steven when he was being a bit of a jerk.  Theo might have been my favorite.  

The one part that felt off to me was the Abigail-is-a-real-girl reveal and her parents' reaction to her death.  They shifted pretty quickly to "we don't blame you for the house making your wife murder our kid, but can we just keep our ghost child here forever?"  They were pretty weird, already, isolating the girl from the world, but it was still bizarre and not really believable.  And why the heck didn't they maintain the house at all, while they were (I assume) paying regular visits to their ghost kid???  Wouldn't they want ghost kid to have a more cheerful ... home?

[Bruinsfan]

On 12/13/2018 at 9:59 PM, methodwriter85 said:

I know you meant sobriety but the thought of thirtysomething hunky addict Luke in a girly sorority made me giggle.

Have you seen the interview where Oliver Jackson-Cohen talks about his skincare regimen? He'd fit right in.