S11.E03: Hashtag Murphy Too

[AdeleDazeem]

Really dated writing and acting. And that awful laugh-track.

What a waste of being on the right side of today. 

[ombelico]

On 10/12/2018 at 12:14 AM, Athena5217 said:

Also, did the writers forget that Miles and Corky were married? Perhaps she wouldn’t have told him ALL those stories when they were married, but    at least some. They don’t act like two people that were ever more than coworkers.

Diane English said that since the whole "Miles and Corky getting married" storyline happened after she left at the end of season four, and that she hated it, it will be ignored in the reboot of the series.

[madfortv]

18 hours ago, Tanichka said:

Murphy’s mother was a tough, strong woman, so I’m sure Murph wasn’t a babe in the woods.  I think in the instance that they outlined on the show, Mary Richards could have handled it.  Nothing happened other than disillusion, so I doubt she is traumatized 50 years later.

Standing up and telling him off, maybe not.  Running like hell, for sure!  And it would not have been a secret, either.  The word spread would have been along the lines of, “Do you know what that asshole tried to pull?”  I am of that time, and we were not timid hothouse flowers.  You had to look out for yourself.

Such a woman could have been traumatized by running and leaving her award, instead of telling him off.  She could have been angry at herself for that, and for thinking that perhaps she did something wrong to lead him on.  I am also of that time, and while I've never been in that position, there are many documented incidents from that era where women froze because they didn't know how to react. Today women are reacting by yelling and pushing back.  Love it!

Compared to today, we were timid hothouse flowers. We avoided. We stepped away. We kept quiet. We were told not to make a scene.  These types of situations along with other types of discrimination, which I experienced, were swept under the rug. We have come a long, long way but there is more to be done in politics and in board rooms. Some women will disappoint but others will shine. They only need the opportunity.

[Tanichka]

I guess we can speculate on why Murphy behaved as she did.  My take is that it’s out of character for her & the show is trying to capitalize on the current climate.  I don’t like being manipulated & the show needs more funny & less preach.

[babs j.]

I think most sit-coms take a few episodes to really get going - the audience needs to begin to know the characters and the situations.  This doesn't seem to be a problem with dramas.  As the saying goes -Dying is easy; comedy is hard.

[treeofdreams]

Murphy at age 19 was not the Murphy of today, or of 20 years ago.  No doubt she learned to be tough as she progressed in her career, and at that time women were still struggling to be accepted and taken seriously in any career that was considered men's territory.  Also at that time sexual harassment was not an issue.  Many men felt entitled to do the things they did, and women were told to just accept that this was the price they paid for trying to find a place in a man's world.  There was no social pressure against sexual harassment then as there is now, and no legal recourse.  It was just the way things were.

If so many women are coming forward today with #Me Too, having found it impossible to say anything at the time it happened, imagine how much harder it would have been back in Murphy's college time to speak up.

[friendperidot]

Wow! So many red boxes in this thread, by so many posters. Thank you all for your support.

[Thalia]

15 hours ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

Not every show has to be laughs all the time. I think given the subject matter, there's nothing wrong with it being more serious.

I'm halfway between Murphy and Corky in age, and have degrees in political science, law, and women's history.  I loved Murphy Classic!  If I could watch it today, I'm sure I'd still be able to get the topical jokes.   But I have just about decided the problem with this one is the fact that they have a 12 or 13 episode season, and I feel like Bergen and English are trying to squeeze in an episode about every important issue before they're done, and in my opinion (YMMV) they are doing so at the expense of humor.  White House press conferences?  Check.  #MeToo?  Dreamers?  Check.  Steve Bannon?  Check.  Well, you get the idea.  Maybe they think the national situation is too dire.  I have to admit, it would be difficult to make a subtle joke about 45.  

Back in the day, Murphy was clearly a liberal voice in a Reagan/Bush world, but it wasn't All Outrage All the Time.  For example, the episode where Corky held the dry New Year's Eve party during Murphy's first year of sobriety.  Hi-larious.  Mouthy Brown.  Corky Sherwood-Forest.   

I'll keep watching, and maybe my expectations were too high, but I'm not loving it.  I do love me some grown up Avery.  Once again, he and Murphy's scenes were my favorite parts of the episode. 

[andromeda331]

This was the first episode I liked for the most part. I really expected not to like it after not liking the first two episodes and went into it skeptical about how they were going to handle the Metoo. I was surprised it was much better then I expected. Corky going on and on about how many different times its happened to her and that was only her 20s? Yep, that sounds about right. Its depressing and really sad to realize how many times she was sexually harassed and that was only her 20s.

Murphy realizing it happened to her or maybe always remembered but blocked it out or maybe where part of where her going off comes from never wanting it to happen again or angry over what her response was. She was 19 and thought of the professor as her mentor. Avery correctly helped her realized he was grooming her. I liked her going to confront him and yep the professor said everything they always say. She lead him on. She was making up stories. Why not it worked since the beginning of time. While I like that she took the trophy back. I do wish she'd had used the mallet something else. That was probably too much to hope for. I liked Murphy giving the card to the new assistant. Yep Murphy wasn't the first and wasn't the last.

I just want to say (if this is too much MODs let me know and I'll delete this part) I'm really uncomfortable with all the well Murphy wouldn't take it or she would have seen the signs. First that is what people always say. Well it couldn't happen to her she'd never at take or realize the signs. So every woman it does happen to they are weak and should have seen the signs? Women of every race have been assaulted or attempted assaults and harassed, female athletes, it doesn't matter what kind of woman you are. They don't always fight or yell. More often they do what Murphy did get out of there and not say anything while wondering if they did something or said something. Women are so used to blaming themselves for what happened. Its hard enough to get police to take it seriously now let alone then there wasn't much she could do. Had she gone to the police, she'd never would have been believe. He was a "respected" professor and she was his student.  

[friendperidot]

thank you Andromeda311, your remarks made me cry, but I've been doing a lot of that the past couple of weeks. There's the anger too, it's like the stages of grief, they don't happen entirely in order and they do a lot of repeating and overlapping. Denial was a very long period.

[AntiBeeSpray]

2 hours ago, Thalia said:

I'm halfway between Murphy and Corky in age, and have degrees in political science, law, and women's history.  I loved Murphy Classic!  If I could watch it today, I'm sure I'd still be able to get the topical jokes.   But I have just about decided the problem with this one is the fact that they have a 12 or 13 episode season, and I feel like Bergen and English are trying to squeeze in an episode about every important issue before they're done, and in my opinion (YMMV) they are doing so at the expense of humor.  White House press conferences?  Check.  #MeToo?  Dreamers?  Check.  Steve Bannon?  Check.  Well, you get the idea.  Maybe they think the national situation is too dire.  I have to admit, it would be difficult to make a subtle joke about 45.  

Back in the day, Murphy was clearly a liberal voice in a Reagan/Bush world, but it wasn't All Outrage All the Time.  For example, the episode where Corky held the dry New Year's Eve party during Murphy's first year of sobriety.  Hi-larious.  Mouthy Brown.  Corky Sherwood-Forest.   

I'll keep watching, and maybe my expectations were too high, but I'm not loving it.  I do love me some grown up Avery.  Once again, he and Murphy's scenes were my favorite parts of the episode. 

Fair enough. Could be.

I'm liking it for what it is, and not what the original show was. There's far worse going on in the world at this point.

[Sarah 103]

3 hours ago, Thalia said:

I'm halfway between Murphy and Corky in age, and have degrees in political science, law, and women's history.  I loved Murphy Classic!  If I could watch it today, I'm sure I'd still be able to get the topical jokes.   But I have just about decided the problem with this one is the fact that they have a 12 or 13 episode season

If you get Antenna TV, you can watch the original series. It's not a 12 episode season the way cable has 12 episodes and that's it for the season. On network, which is what Murphy is on, it's a 23 or 24 episode season. The network orders 12 episodes for a new series, and then if they like it and it's getting good ratings, they will ask for another 12. A network season is actually 24 episodes. 

[justmehere]

18 hours ago, treeofdreams said:

If so many women are coming forward today with #Me Too, having found it impossible to say anything at the time it happened, imagine how much harder it would have been back in Murphy's college time to speak up.

And now the defensive line is that women need proof or witnesses as corroboration. That's not how it works. It's furtive. It's hidden for exactly that reason and is the perfect way to discredit the whole thing. -- Or, that women are ruining men's reputations (never mind how the women's lives have been affected for decades). Women are no longer suppressing and yet still aren't believed. How dare they make such accusations?! An Austrian woman was just convicted of libel for accusing someone of sexual harassment, and there are plenty of women who have been so indoctrinated that they still brush aside these behaviors and hold men blameless. For a 19 year old in a time when there barely was a name for harassment let alone acquaintance/date rape ... the fact that Murphy did get out of there instead of feeling like she had to accept or make light of it to avoid upsetting a respected, powerful man is testament to her strength. And, such an incident would remain inside, affecting her, informing different aspects of her life. Personally ... I gained weight so I'd be left alone (subconscious then, but I know it now).

[Skycatcher]

On 10/13/2018 at 5:16 AM, IDreamofJoaquin said:

 I don't know why people like to turn the other cheek but they do.

When it's not their cheek that's being harassed, it's easy to do.  Especially when something they have a,stake in (job, family - don't make waves) is being threatened.

ETA:  I can see another reason why Murphy buried the memory. It doesn't fit with her self-image of today. That shaken 19 year old doesn't  fit with the strong hard-nosed reporter Murphy has created for herself.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Skycatcher

[ratgirlagogo]

14 hours ago, Skycatcher said:

ETA:  I can see another reason why Murphy buried the memory. It doesn't fit with her self-image of today. That shaken 19 year old doesn't  fit with the strong hard-nosed reporter Murphy has created for herself.

That's what I was thinking.  No reporter ever WANTS to admit to themselves that they weren't always the one in the know - they may HAVE to, but they don't WANT to.   Because the other thing from her era would be not that sexual harassment was not a thing, or was somehow OK - it's that "knowing how to handle it" was something all aspiring professional women were expected to be able to do in a viciously competitive dog-eat-dog devil-take-the-hindmost environment.  She was supposed to be self-possessed enough to stave the guy off and simultaneously reflect his own ego back at him at ten times its actual size.   Along with all the humiliations and pissing contests that she had to endure, as did her male counterparts.   

[Irlandesa]

I can believe a 19-year-old Murphy would have reacted the way she did, even if she was strong and raised by a strong mother.  He was her mentor.  She wasn't anticipating him to have a romantic interest in her or make romantic advances much less an assault.  Being in that position when you're not expecting it is scary.  There's nothing wrong or weak about listening to an instinct telling a woman is to get to safety and get back on stable ground. And there's always a calculation about whether or not speaking up about it is worth it. 

I don't mind Murphy not remembering this incident before but I did think her conversation with Avery felt a little too after-school-special.  I would have far preferred for Murphy to be the one to realize she had been groomed but had never thought about it before.

[Anela]

On 10/12/2018 at 3:19 PM, magicdog said:

I'm just not feeling it.  Not only the lack of laughs (or one good line per episode) but I think characterization for Murphy is slipping.

This.  Murphy didn't take crap from guys like the professor character.  That was one of the things that made her such an intrepid journalist;  even a 19 year old Murphy would have seen it coming.  If the Murphy  we've always known had walked into the man's house and there were no other party guests around, she would have done a 180 and left!

 

Ditto!  I love Frank's character and he deserves something better.  It's not a crime to find a person attractive even if you don't initiate contact.

Miles also deserves better - even he knows dating in the workplace is often frowned upon in some companies. He would have been informed of the rules regarding such things when he signed on.  

The ICE joke wasn't funny either.  Maybe that's a clue that Miguel should "make it legal" rather than hide like a child because he heard "that word".  If he is a Dreamer, he would have filed the paperwork already.

So far, we have yet to really see Avery at work or on his show.  I think we need to see more of him doing his thing.

 

Hard to say.  I work in TV news and since Murphy and the gang work for a cable network of some size, they likely all have offices and at least one assistant to handle certain tasks.  The meeting was held on set, which is not uncommon when there is a large group to gather for a meeting like that.  Regular meeting rooms tend to be too small unless they hold them off property.  It doesn't necessarily mean they don't have offices.  Miles's position demands office space, so it's not a stretch for Murphy, Corky or Frank to have one too.

 

If Diane English really wanted to take a chance on something contemporary, lets see a bookend episode in which Avery is called out publicly by a girl he once dated in college (or better still - someone who crushed on him but he didn't reciprocate) for touching/harassing her a decade ago.   Then Murphy has the issue of wanting to be Mama Bear (because she knows her son would never do such a thing) and also consider that others could have had their reputations destroyed undeservedly. 

Who has had his reputation ruined undeservedly? The men I know now, have never been accused of sexual harassment, but some of them have looked back and felt guilty about something, even if it was not speaking up to another man, and telling him to stop doing something. 

 

Most of the men who have been accused, and guilty, have kept their careers.  They have people saying that they should be allowed back, it wasn’t even a year before some of them tried, and others apparently expect everything to be just fine.  The women who accused them, on the other hand, are accused of lying, jealousy. It can be a long list, so I will stop there.  Yet look at Asia Argento, when she was accused.  I didn’t see anyone stand up for her.  A lot of people seemed to think she got what was coming to her, for having accused Weinstein.

18 hours ago, Skycatcher said:

When it's not their cheek that's being harassed, it's easy to do.  Especially when something they have a,stake in (job, family - don't make waves) is being threatened.

ETA:  I can see another reason why Murphy buried the memory. It doesn't fit with her self-image of today. That shaken 19 year old doesn't  fit with the strong hard-nosed reporter Murphy has created for herself.

 

I blocked a memory, as a teenager, because it was a real “WTF?” Moment. And my life had been in danger. My sister reminded me of it (she was there). 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Anela

[funky-rat]

On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 12:27 AM, HyeChaps said:

My favorite part was Murphy discussing the Bed, Bath & Beyond coupons. It’s funny because it’s true!

I too keep them in date order, so I can use the oldest ones first, lol.

On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 1:25 PM, iMonrey said:

While I thought this episode had something important to say, I think I figured out what's wrong with the show overall. Politics just aren't funny anymore. These are different times, and things have changed a lot since the late 80s and the 90s. This country is a lot more partisan and divided than we were just 20-30 years ago. Nobody on the left thinks the current state of affairs is a joking matter anymore, and nobody on the right is probably going to watch this show anyway.

On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 1:31 PM, proserpina65 said:

I disagree with that.  I'm firmly on the left, and I think there's plenty in the state of our politics now which can be joked about, even if the subject matter is heavy and emotional.  (Exhibit #1: SNL)  My problem is that the current iteration of Murphy Brown just isn't doing it well enough to keep me watching because it simply hasn't been all that funny.

I sit in the middle, just like I did when the show was originally on, and I find this show a lot funnier than I do most any other show on TV that takes on politics, which is pretty much every show out there anymore, in some capacity.  A comedian friend of mine said that politics is lazy humor for many writers, and for most shows, that's entirely true nowadays.  At least this show was always about politics, and seemed to poke fun at the institution of politics as a whole - every administration got some ire.

 

On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 3:19 PM, magicdog said:

This.  Murphy didn't take crap from guys like the professor character.  That was one of the things that made her such an intrepid journalist;  even a 19 year old Murphy would have seen it coming.  If the Murphy  we've always known had walked into the man's house and there were no other party guests around, she would have done a 180 and left!

Miles also deserves better - even he knows dating in the workplace is often frowned upon in some companies. He would have been informed of the rules regarding such things when he signed on.  

The ICE joke wasn't funny either.  Maybe that's a clue that Miguel should "make it legal" rather than hide like a child because he heard "that word".  If he is a Dreamer, he would have filed the paperwork already.

On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 6:15 PM, chitowngirl said:

It was probably this incident that made Murphy the Murphy we’ve always known.

BINGO.  Most strong women I know well had some incident that made them strong.  I always got the impression that Murphy had a privileged upbringing, and that her parents were largely absentee (but I can't remember a lot about the early eps - will be DVR'ing them when they come back around), so I could absolutely believe that she really had no clue what she was walking in to.  A trusted adult lavishing praise and attention on her could have blindsided her.  Also, the rush of winning a prestigious award could have also clouded her judgement.  As for Miles, he seemed to know the where the rules would land but was looking for a firm "yes or no" so he could be confident he was making the right decision.  As someone who has a brain that sometimes doesn't shut off, it rang true for me - I will often try to find validation from someone that my line of thinking is correct, or my brain continues to run and manufacture "what if's".  I will agree on the ICE joke - I didn't much care for that - just didn't find it funny.

 

On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 1:28 AM, AntiBeeSpray said:

 I didn't mind it. Not every show has to be laughs all the time. I think given the subject matter, there's nothing wrong with it being more serious. I don't think it being uber funny would have worked there in my opinion. The Bed, Bath, Beyond joke was Murphy trying to put up a wall when something was wrong. Found nothing wrong with it.

Exactly.  The show had enough lighter-hearted (but no gut-busting) moments that it balanced out.

While I never had anyone lay a finger on me in a sexual manner when I was younger, I spend my school years being mistreated and verbally/mentally abused by a few teachers/school workers.  I would tell people, but they either didn't believe me, or just shrugged their shoulders, so I finally just stopped talking about it.  I saw one the other night for the first time in almost 30 years (former school nurse - horrible shrew of a woman, who, along with the fat old girls gym teacher, insisted I go on a school supervised diet because no man would ever want someone who looked like me - the gym teacher was much fatter than I was, FYI).  I hadn't given her much more than a passing thought the last number of years, but the second I saw her, I heard it all in my head.  "Get on the scale.  Oh...you only lost 1 pound since your last weigh-in.  We'll just have to reduce your calories again, unless you want to admit you're cheating on your food diary."  God, I hated her with the power of a thousand suns.  I just wanted to run up to her and shake her, and say "How could you do that to a teenage girl who was already struggling???".  I messaged my best friend from high school.  She got back immediately and asked if I was OK.  I told he that she can't control me anymore, and I would be fine, but that I found it amusing her husband was not handsome, fit, or thin.  Cranky old bat.  Still, the rest of the night I just felt ashamed and terrible, even though I shouldn't have.  It just evoked those old feelings.

[Tanichka]

4 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

friend of mine said that politics is lazy humor for many writers, and for most shows, that's entirely true nowadays.  

Isn’t that the truth!

[magicdog]

Just now, funky-rat said:

I spend my school years being mistreated and verbally/mentally abused by a few teachers/school workers.  I would tell people, but they either didn't believe me, or just shrugged their shoulders, so I finally just stopped talking about it.

Sorry you had a bad time of it, but if that had happened to me as a kid, my parents would have beaten a path to that person's door - and done a tag team beatdown!

 

Just now, funky-rat said:

I always got the impression that Murphy had a privileged upbringing, and that her parents were largely absentee

I get what you're saying.  Murphy's mom (Avery the Elder) was a tough woman and much of her base personality is reflected in Murphy.  Her father did spend a lot of time working on the newspaper he worked at (IIRC he was a publisher), and it was one of the issues that lead to their divorce.

[funky-rat]

10 minutes ago, magicdog said:

Sorry you had a bad time of it, but if that had happened to me as a kid, my parents would have beaten a path to that person's door - and done a tag team beatdown!

I did tell my mom on a number of occasions.  She would sometimes go to the school and complain, depending on what it was, but they would constantly tell her that I brought much of what happened on myself.  She didn't believe that, but she saw she was fighting a losing battle, and told me that as much as it sucked, I had to keep my head down and my mouth shut because nothing that she could do would help.  I finally just stopped telling her anything because there literally wasn't much she could do about it.  As for the diet, my mom was always dieting, so I just assumed she would be OK with it (when I mentioned it several years later, it turned out she was not).  I thought I could trust the one guidance counselor.  I asked her to write me a recommendation for a scholarship because I had gone years with an undiagnosed learning disability that gave me bad grades.  She put it in a sealed envelope and gave it to me.  I didn't open it.  But I also didn't fill out the paperwork correctly, and the whole thing was returned to me as one large packet, and when I was looking to see what I did wrong, I saw her letter.  She actually wrote - in a scholarship recommendation  -that my poor grades were, in her opinion, the product of an ongoing weight problem, and a very unstable home life.  She never once mentioned the late diagnosed Learning Disability.  It made me sound like a loser, and none of it was true.  I threw the paperwork in the coal burner, and I never mentioned it again.  I was too embarrassed to send it back in.

[proserpina65]

On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 1:28 AM, AntiBeeSpray said:

Not every show has to be laughs all the time

True, but I would've liked at least one laugh for the half-hour, and for me, there weren't any.  I thought this was by far the worst of the three episodes yet, and if next week's isn't any better, I'm outta here.

[AntiBeeSpray]

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

True, but I would've liked at least one laugh for the half-hour, and for me, there weren't any.  I thought this was by far the worst of the three episodes yet, and if next week's isn't any better, I'm outta here.

For you. And that's the thing. Not every viewer holds shows by the same standards (I laughed a lot during it, for what it's worth (and using another show for an example, Plus One from the X Files a lot of fans liked, but I didn't like it, thought it was terrible, so it's just a matter of difference in terms of what people like)). Fair enough. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray

[Chaos Theory]

Wow I really liked this an as someone who watched the original Murphy Brown I can see her being 19 and like Avery said "groomed" by a professor which is what happened.  She was groomed.   Add to the fact the times were different then.   My grandmother was strong too.  That didn't stop my mother and her sisters from having to deal with grabby men.  Times were different then.   It was't sexual harassment.  It was a bad date.   I can buy all that coming to the surface now with the MeToo Movement and alot of women realizing that some of the things that happened to them weren't right and alot of men getting self righteous about things that "everyone else did."  

[Cherpumple]

I mostly liked this episode, despite the heavy-handedness (and cringeworthy ICE "jokes"), and don't think that it was out of character for Murphy to have had this experience. As many of you have said, this type of thing can and does happen to anyone, and perpetuating the idea that it only happens to certain kinds of women is skating dangerously close to victim blaming and "asking for it" mentalities. Besides, it's common to feel invincible at that age, and to think you know it all, and I can totally picture a young, brash, full-of-herself Murphy getting taken in by an older respected man who flattered her ego and told her how brilliant she was.

There are only two things that I wished they would have tweaked a bit:

1) I wish Frank would have been directly called out for his outdated lament of "back in my day, we knew when we were in trouble and why." No, dude. It didn't work like that. Just because you didn't know this was an issue, doesn't mean it didn't happen, or that things were simpler in the past. Sorry, but sometimes it sounds like some men are implying that one day everyone was happy and women were fine with the lewd comments and groping, and then the next day *poof* it all became a problem. No! That kind of behavior has always been unwelcome/creepy/scary, but there haven't always been the resources available (legally or societally) for people to come out and hold the harassers accountable. Heck, it's still tremendously difficult!

2) I liked Murphy and Avery's talk about his experiences, especially while travelling, but it really stuck out to me that they both immediately focused on Avery's behavior towards women, without even acknowledging that he may have had some bad experiences of his own. I know the episode was focused on the experiences of the women on the show, but I was surprised that it didn't even seem to occur to them that Avery might have his own stories.

[IDreamofJoaquin]

On 10/14/2018 at 6:50 AM, Skycatcher said:

When it's not their cheek that's being harassed, it's easy to do.  Especially when something they have a,stake in (job, family - don't make waves) is being threatened.

It's just too bad when a child is telling a parent and the parent turns into a cement statue. 

[proserpina65]

15 hours ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

For you. And that's the thing. Not every viewer holds shows by the same standards (I laughed a lot during it, for what it's worth (and using another show for an example, Plus One from the X Files a lot of fans liked, but I didn't like it, thought it was terrible, so it's just a matter of difference in terms of what people like)). Fair enough. 

Like everyone here, I'm just expressing my personal opinion, not demanding that the show be taken off the air or that everyone else stop watching.  It's fine that others are enjoying it, but I had high hopes based on the original incarnation of the Murphy Brown, and this is not living up to them.  I won't belabor that point, however. 

[Skycatcher]

20 hours ago, magicdog said:

Sorry you had a bad time of it, but if that had happened to me as a kid, my parents would have beaten a path to that person's door - and done a tag team beatdown!

Mine, too. I remember a time....... well, actually, many times! They were always there for me, thank god! Sadly many kids, even in TV land, don't have that blessing.  

[Chaos Theory]

14 hours ago, Cherpumple said:

 

2) I liked Murphy and Avery's talk about his experiences, especially while travelling, but it really stuck out to me that they both immediately focused on Avery's behavior towards women, without even acknowledging that he may have had some bad experiences of his own. I know the episode was focused on the experiences of the women on the show, but I was surprised that it didn't even seem to occur to them that Avery might have his own stories.

As much as Avery possibly having issues with sexual harassment is important, I think the show wanted to deal more with Murphy’s (and older people in general) idea of the lack of romance of “asking” and what constitutes sexual harassment.   Would all those old classics lines like “Here’s looking at you kid.” Be considered harassment?   When Avery says he asks before he touches a woman Murphy asks him if that removes the romance.   It’s a fair question.   And one of the reasons Baby Boomers  and the ilk have trouble with some of the MeToo Movement.   Was that bad date they had decades ago and laugh about with their friends now sexual harassment?  I thought that entire conversation was very well done.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Cherpumple]

On 10/16/2018 at 1:45 PM, Chaos Theory said:

As much as Avery possibly having issues with sexual harassment is important, I think the show wanted to deal more with Murphy’s (and older people in general) idea of the lack of romance of “asking” and what constitutes sexual harassment.

I agree, and am glad that the focus was on the older generation, but the Murphy and Avery scene was just an instance when I thought the conversation would go one way, and it went another way instead. Maybe because they've done such a good job with presenting Avery as a great person, it never occurred to me that he could be one of *those* guys. But I suppose that's part of the message too - that you just don't know who's capable of what sometimes, and also that we need good men like Avery to be allies to women and stand up to the bad bevavior of other men.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I, for one, am glad that Avery wasn’t one of those guys who had to rethink if he crossed a line or had to confess he was guilty of what the movement was fighting against. Because as he said- He “was raised right.” There are so many stories of men, boys who are still tone deaf and oblivious, that I was happy that Murphy’s son doesn’t fall into that group. If that makes sense.

Edited October 17, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[Tanichka]

I'll give it one more chance tonight.  Hope it's not full of moral superiority.  I would prefer it to be full of laughs.  You can have laughs while making a point, but this show isn't doing it.

Oh gawd, I just saw that Jim is returning.  Cue the screaming & sobbing.  I'm not sure I can take it.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Tanichka

[shksabelle]

Didn’t this used to be a comedy?

[Gothish520]

On 10/12/2018 at 9:31 PM, deaja said:

I thought that was the worst episode of the three. I know it was trying to be relevant, but unlike the other episodes, it had no humor. In the past, even when Murphy Brown covered a tough, relevant subject, they did it with wit. This time they did a joke about Bed Bath and Beyond and that was supposed to pass as the humor for the episode?

I thought the line about Frank wearing a deep v-neck and how if he wore it again, Murphy would comment about it again was great. There were a few good laughs this episode.

[Gothish520]

On 10/17/2018 at 4:09 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I, for one, am glad that Avery wasn’t one of those guys who had to rethink if he crossed a line or had to confess he was guilty of what the movement was fighting against. Because as he said- He “was raised right.” There are so many stories of men, boys who are still tone deaf and oblivious, that I was happy that Murphy’s son doesn’t fall into that group. If that makes sense.

It does, and I think it's important to remind people that there are many. many good men in the world who would NEVER cross that line, ever. 

[WatchrTina]

Sigh.  I loved this show in it's first run.  LOVED it.  And I want to love it again.  But I just didn't find this funny.  I only got around to watching it today (over a week after it aired) and that says everything.  This show was must-see-TV for me when it first aired.  I'll stick with it for a few more episodes but when watching a show -- especially a comedy -- fees like a chore, something is wrong.  Everything just feels tired and forced to me.  

Then again, maybe it's me.  What with the state of the world I find I myself draw more and more to Sci/Fi-Fantasy shows, nature shows, and competition shows (Great British Bake-off and Forged in Fired are my favs.) Sigh.  I was really hoping I'd like the re-boot.

[Mystery]

On 10/11/2018 at 11:48 PM, kit.kat343 said:

Jake McDorman and Tyne Daly are both incredible on this show.  Casting did a great job of adding wonderful new actors to this show.  Candace Bergen is an amazing actress, but I hope the writing picks up a little - they haven't given her as much good material to work with.  Her interactions with Avery are great, I just wish the show's other writing was a little stronger for her.   

I liked this episode better than the first two, but it does still seem "off" to me. I watched the original when it was on, and I don't remember it being an endless parade of: joke, wait for a laugh, next joke. The writing just doesn't seem smooth to me. Avery and Murphy are the best part of the show for me, although I thought I'd like the work scenes more. 

Still, I thought that Murphy's college experience was well done. 

[chitowngirl]

10 hours ago, Mystery said:

I liked this episode better than the first two, but it does still seem "off" to me. I watched the original when it was on, and I don't remember it being an endless parade of: joke, wait for a laugh, next joke. The writing just doesn't seem smooth to me. Avery and Murphy are the best part of the show for me, although I thought I'd like the work scenes more. 

Still, I thought that Murphy's college experience was well done. 

Part of the pacing problem is that shows are shorter in length than they used to be. The Big Bang Theory clocks in at 19 minutes of show in a 30 minute time slot.

[Mystery]

Ah, I felt like shows were getting shorter, but not by that much!

[AntiBeeSpray]

On 10/23/2018 at 10:15 AM, chitowngirl said:

Part of the pacing problem is that shows are shorter in length than they used to be. The Big Bang Theory clocks in at 19 minutes of show in a 30 minute time slot.

Yep. Commercials are hogging a lot of the space now. They're a big part of the problem.