S04.E08: Coushatta

[Bannon]

5 minutes ago, meira.hand said:

Several posts here assumed that the German workers will be killed. I think this does not make sense for several reasons. The whole idea of bringing in construction workers from Germany is that they have no connections in the US, and after they return home do not pose a risk of discovery. Also they are not professional criminals and so if they do not return after a lucrative project abroad, their families would not have kept quiet which may trigger an international inquiry. On top of that Gas knows that Mike is an ex-cop with a fairly clear sense of personal ethics, that will allow him to ignore the killings within the criminal underworld but not of innocent civilians that are here to do construction work that is very secret and may not be legal but that they are not responsible for. 

I've not been on board with the idea of Gus killing the Germans, because although Gus doesn't want to make it obvious where the construction site is, he has to know that Werner is a very smart guy, and could have deduced which small number of large commercial laundries in the SW U.S. might be the site, and set up a failsafe where if anything happened to Werner, the location would be revealed to the DEA. It always made more sense to me that Weener, at least, would be placed on retainer once the lab was finished.

[SunnyBeBe]

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I think Jimmy was surprised too, based on Jimmy's remark to Mrs. Nguyen about Jimmy thinking that he and Kim were beyond making up over dinner and flowers.

 

 

Not entirely. With the banking crisis of 2008 about to break bad across the country, she would not have been better off financially no matter how you slice it.

 

 

Heh. Loved that line.

 

It's interesting that Kai, the trouble maker was easier to clean up after than the lonely Ziegler.

 

What sort of legal fallout could Munsinger generate after Kim and the prosecutor have reached a deal if Munsinger—who clearly recognized the Miricle on 34th Strreet parallel—should wake up at 3am and realize that he had given Kim the idea of using a well known movie as a metaphor to make a point with his own use of a Grisham book movie?

 

 

Nacho does not miss the literal meaning of Lalo's figurative expression "you're gonna die" when Nacho refuses the food and also when he considers the Canadian IDs for his father and himself—so maybe Nacho is just out of the country in Breaking Bad. Maybe Kim is in Canada too. Maybe just as Belize was a euphemism for the grave in BrBa, Canada is where all living characters go from BCS if they are never to be seen on screen again but are not dead.

 

Ref. your question in the boldface portion above.  IF, the scam of the Huell fan letters were to be discovered (How it would be discovered  is a whole other issue, like, getting Jimmy's DNA on so many envelops -too expensive-, but, the letters could be debunked, given enough time and resources.), then the sentence/case could be set aside and a new disposition sought.  But, they would have to prove that Kim conspired, condoned, participated or was in some way complicit in the fraud on the court.  But, my argument would hinge on whether HUELL knew about it.  If he didn't know, then, my argument would be that he should not suffer due to his attorneys antics, but, I don't think that is a winning argument.   (If it's a fraud on the court, it doesn't matter how minor the offense. Heads will usually roll in a big way.) 

IMO, that scam, though is seems harmless, is HUGE and I can't imagine the angst of living with that over your head......for Jimmy and Kim....UNBELIEVABLE.  It really does boggle the mind. It was fun to watch though.  AND OH, I have lived in the south my entire life and all of the Baptists,. Methodists, Holiness, Free Will Baptists, called the wine and bread communion.  They would all know what the Lord's Supper was too, but, it could be used interchangeably, in my region. (NC)

I'm another who isn't into the underground workers.  Just a yawn for me.  They are dragging Mike down, imo.  I normally adore his scenes. I hope it'll be worth it. 

Edited September 25, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[ruby24]

I'm starting to warm to the idea of Kim possibly being around throughout Breaking Bad and we just didn't see her. It's not impossible, since we never saw Saul's home life and it was only a year through all of BB.

The flashback to him about to go on the run made didn't make it seem like she was around, but they could always do another one. Hmm. Starting to wonder.

She could have been a silent partner in the money laundering side of it too...

Edited September 25, 2018 by ruby24

[Blakeston]

While the Germans might very well end up in the concrete underneath the meth lab, I'm not convinced that Gus and Mike have already decided to kill them. 

If they've already decided to kill the Germans, then there's no reason for Gus to be concerned with whether Mike had a successful "come to Jesus" meeting with Werner. Werner wouldn't be seeing the light of day again, so it wouldn't be possible for him to blab to anyone.

It's definitely strange that they'd take them out and about in Albuquerque - but really, that doesn't make sense no matter what the plans are. Even if it's been decided that the Germans are all going to wind up in barrels, Gus and Mike still shouldn't want anyone in Albuquerque to see their faces, or be aware of the presence of a bunch of German men.

[MisterBluxom]

27 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I've not been on board with the idea of Gus killing the Germans, because although Gus doesn't want to make it obvious where the construction site is, he has to know that Werner is a very smart guy, and could have deduced which small number of large commercial laundries in the SW U.S. might be the site, and set up a failsafe where if anything happened to Werner, the location would be revealed to the DEA. It always made more sense to me that Weener, at least, would be placed on retainer once the lab was finished.

I would add to that. I believe that at his core, Gus wants to live a moral life and lifestlyle. He does not want to be a murderer. In fact, he does not want to be a law breaker of any kind. The only times I seem to recall that Gus intentionally broke the law was when he saw no other alternative to protect his life and his lifestyle or those of his compadres.

I think many people would be surprised if they asked themselves this question. Suppose you met Gus when you were both young adults - before he had any wealth or power.

If given the opportunity, would you choose to become a life long friend with Gus?  If you find yourself suffering from some boredom between now and the next episode, I'd love to hear what you think about that. Is Gus the kind of person you would like to be friends with?

Edited September 25, 2018 by MissBluxom

[iMonrey]

What was that thing Kim took out of her desk drawer and was looking at?

Jimmy went to a lot of trouble and expense for Huell - what exactly is his investment in this guy at this stage of his life? I know Huell helped him out with the skateboarding punks and with Chuck earlier on, but is that enough for Jimmy to go to such elaborate lengths for him? Does he fear Huell will squeal about one or both of these things in prison? 

[Bannon]

19 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I would add to that. I believe that at his core, Gus wants to live a moral life and lifestlyle. He does not want to be a murderer. In fact, he does not want to be a law breaker of any kind. The only times I seem to recall that Gus intentionally broke the law was when he saw no other alternative to protect his life and his lifestyle or those of his compadres.

I think many people would be surprised if they asked themselves this question. Suppose you met Gus when you were both young adults - before he had any wealth or power.

If given the opportunity, would you choose to become a life long friend with Gus?  If you find yourself suffering from some boredom between now and the next episode, I'd love to hear what you think about that. Is Gus the kind of person you would like to be friends with?

Well, Gus could live a very comfortable life as a fast food executive, yet he chooses to sell a hugely destructive intoxicant on the black market, so I wouldn't make the case for his morality too strongly. He's better than a Salamanca or a Don Eladio, but that is placing the bar pretty low.

[SailorGirl]

13 hours ago, MBayGal said:

When I watched BrBa -- several times -- I might have wondered for random seconds here and there about how they got the lab under the laundromat.  I am soooo tired of this endless construction project taking up so much of every episode.  I'd even rather see the cartel business than that, mainly because I care about Nacho.  I care about none of the Germans, or what it took to build the lab.

Interesting -- until BCS, I never even gave it a thought. I just figured it was an existing basement that was put in when the facility was originally built. . . knowing now that it wasn't, I find it kinda fascinating to see the depths (see what I did there? Hee!) Gus goes to to build -- and hide -- his empire. "Thorough" doesn't even begin to describe it. I'm okay with the construction project, but I'm generally okay with whatever road Gilligan et al want to take us down. 

Edit to add: This is one of the reasons I love these episode discussions. We all notice different things and for me it adds another level of depth (again with the depth!) and ups the awesomeness factor even more. 

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by SailorGirl

[Bannon]

11 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

What was that thing Kim took out of her desk drawer and was looking at?

Jimmy went to a lot of trouble and expense for Huell - what exactly is his investment in this guy at this stage of his life? I know Huell helped him out with the skateboarding punks and with Chuck earlier on, but is that enough for Jimmy to go to such elaborate lengths for him? Does he fear Huell will squeal about one or both of these things in prison? 

I think that we are going to learn about that object, and thus something about Kim.

[qtpye]

3 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

What was that thing Kim took out of her desk drawer and was looking at?

Jimmy went to a lot of trouble and expense for Huell - what exactly is his investment in this guy at this stage of his life? I know Huell helped him out with the skateboarding punks and with Chuck earlier on, but is that enough for Jimmy to go to such elaborate lengths for him? Does he fear Huell will squeal about one or both of these things in prison? 

One of Jimmy's more endearing qualities is that he loves to save and nurture people. He is also very loyal and not a rat. He was passionate about Sand Piper not just for the money but it really chapped his hide to think about his beloved elderly clients getting screwed by a big corporation. Huell is his guy, who was only trying to do his job protecting Jimmy. JImmy also knows that he got the cop riled up with his attitude about finding the burner phone allowing a drug dealer to walk free, so he also feels at least partly responsible. When he becomes Saul he seems to actually love getting his clients butts out of the fire and it is better yet if he can get one over on the authorities.

Kims is more puzzling. The good strait-laced girl finding the bad boy irresistible is such a cliche. She probably does not understand why the hell she is risking everything for doing such stupid shit beyond she is totally bored with her respectable life even with her many accomplishments. I do not think there has to be something in her past to make her this way but the writers certainly could go that route.

[tennisgurl]

Looks like Kim might Break Bad even before Jimmy makes the full Saul transformation. Now I wonder if what gives Jimmy the final shove towards Saul is a con going wrong with Kim, and Kim bailing on him, or cutting and running when she got caught? Kim is very book smart, but maybe that Bad Boy thing is going to end up overruling all those smarts. I think I underestimated how much of a rush she gets out of being Giselle. 

I cant decide if the whole letter writing plan is really smart, or really full of holes. I think a lot of it is that they assume that everyone will soon just want this whole thing over if its too much work, or in danger of becoming a media circus. They figure that the whole thing will basically be dropped out of annoyance if nothing else, so their plan doesn't exactly have to be perfect. 

Nacho just seems miserable now. Almost in a worse mood just hanging around his big empty house with his paid to be there girlfriends than the guy whos earring he torn off while on him. I know he made his own bad choices to get involved in this crap, but I cant help but feel sorry for him. 

I dont know about the future of the German guys. Killing them might be more trouble than its worth, as long as Mike can keep them under wraps. Poor Mike, he really seemed to think he might have found a friend in Werner, but he underestimated the guys loneliness and love of boozy shop talk. And probably the consummate professionalism that Mike so treasures. Really, a bunch of German nationals disappearing in the US (did they enter the country legally?) would probably lead to attention, and maybe even get the federal government involved looking for these missing people from another country, that are probably wandering where their citizens went. It would probably be easier to send them back to Germany, where they presumably wouldn't be heading back to New Mexico to talk to anyone. But, its hard to tell, especially now that they are causing attention. 

Good episode, although I continue to want to see a few more flash-forwards to see current Saul. 

[SailorGirl]

6 hours ago, Bannon said:

Like a lot of operations that come up against logistic nightmares, they are trying to have it both ways, by resorting to half measures.

[Bryce Lynch]

38 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Ref. your question in the boldface portion above.  IF, the scam of the Huell fan letters were to be discovered (How it would be discovered  is a whole other issue, like, getting Jimmy's DNA on so many envelops -too expensive-, but, the letters could be debunked, given enough time and resources.), then the sentence/case could be set aside and a new disposition sought.  But, they would have to prove that Kim conspired, condoned, participated or was in some way complicit in the fraud on the court.  But, my argument would hinge on whether HUELL knew about it.  If he didn't know, then, my argument would be that he should not suffer due to his attorneys antics, but, I don't think that is a winning argument.   (If it's a fraud on the court, it doesn't matter how minor the offense. Heads will usually roll in a big way.) 

IMO, that scam, though is seems harmless, is HUGE and I can't imagine the angst of living with that over your head......for Jimmy and Kim....UNBELIEVABLE.  It really does boggle the mind. It was fun to watch though.  AND OH, I have lived in the south my entire life and all of the Baptists,. Methodists, Holiness, Free Will Baptists, called the wine and bread communion.  They would all know what the Lord's Supper was too, but, it could be used interchangeably, in my region. (NC)

I'm another who isn't into the underground workers.  Just a yawn for me.  They are dragging Mike down, imo.  I normally adore his scenes. I hope it'll be worth it. 

I think it would be fairly easy to discover the fan letter fraud.  All the ADA needs to do is a little independent research on the names.  If they are real names, she can call their home phones and hear them reply "What's a Huell?".  If they are fake names, she can determine that, as well.  Jimmy's fingerprints (which are in the system from his arrest) would be all over the letters, implicating him.  Kim might cop to it, before it got to dusting for fingerprints, to protect Jimmy.   

Huell posing for the photos on the phony church website would be rather strong proof that he was involved in the scam.  

22 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

What was that thing Kim took out of her desk drawer and was looking at?

It was the top from the bottle of Zafiro Anejo tequila that they scammed off Ken Wins in her first Giselle Saint Claire scam with Jimmy.  Someone on reddit pointed out that it is akin to Jimmy's ring that belonged to Marco and Walter White's eyeball from the pink bear. 

[MisterBluxom]

13 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Well, Gus could live a very comfortable life as a fast food executive, yet he chooses to sell a hugely destructive intoxicant on the black market, so I wouldn't make the case for his morality too strongly. He's better than a Salamanca or a Don Eladio, but that is placing the bar pretty low.

I suppose that may depend on just how he got started in his fast food life. Is it possible he was "helped" but the cartel? Is it possible that he may be in debt to them? Possibly some kind of "loan shark" debt? Or maybe just in debt because they gave their consent which they would need to do to any new business that crosses state lines (or country borders)?

I'd ask the question, "Do you think he got to live a comfortable life as a fast food executive before he sold any of that poison? Or  perhaps he got to make his money only because he chose to sell it?

I don't know the answer to that question. But I think the answer might just have an awful lot to do with the kinds of choices he made and the kinds of choices he was free to make vs those he was  not free to make.  I do not remember a great deal of his history as told in Better Call Saul. So I may not remember how it came about. Or I may not have ever learned or saw how his empire came into being.  Would anyone here know how that happened?

18 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I think that we are going to learn about that object, and thus something about Kim.

Wasn't that some object she obtained during the evening Jimmie and Kim suckered that sucker into buying some extremely over-priced vodka?

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think it would be fairly easy to discover the fan letter fraud.  All the ADA needs to do is a little independent research on the names.  If they are real names, she can call their home phones and hear them reply "What's a Huell?".  If they are fake names, she can determine that, as well.  Jimmy's fingerprints (which are in the system from his arrest) would be all over the letters, implicating him.  Kim might cop to it, before it got to dusting for fingerprints, to protect Jimmy.   

Huell posing for the photos on the phony church website would be rather strong proof that he was involved in the scam.  

Oh, the con won't hold up at all if it is looked at hard. The whole thing depends on it appearing to be pointless effort, and the ADA having a huge caseload. Kim's got to have a serious self destructive streak to take this risk, similar to a severe gambling addiction. I really want to have the origin shown to me.

5 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I suppose that may depend on just how he got started in his fast food life. Is it possible he was "helped" but the cartel? Is it possible that he may be in debt to them? Possibly some kind of "loan shark" debt? Or maybe just in debt because they gave their consent which they would need to do to any new business that crosses state lines (or country borders)?

I'd ask the question, "Do you think he got to live a comfortable life as a fast food executive before he sold any of that poison? Or  perhaps he got to make his money only because he chose to sell it?

I don't know the answer to that question. But I think the answer might just have an awful lot to do with the kinds of choices he made and the kinds of choices he was free to make vs those he was  not free to make.  I do not remember a great deal of his history as told in Better Call Saul. So I may not remember how it came about. Or I may not have ever learned or saw how his empire came into being.  Would anyone here know how that happened?

 

  Hide contents

Wasn't that some object she obtained during the evening Jimmie and Kim suckered that sucker into buying some extremely over-priced vodka?

Tequila, but I think you are right. It referenced some previous thrill seeking.

 

No doubt Gus getting out of the meth business would be hard (and yes, the drug business preceded the chicken business), but make no mistake, he chose the drug business, and had other options. He's extremely intelligent.

[Dobian]

Saul's best con yet

[Ohwell]

3 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

In Southern Baptist churches, it is definitely “Lord’s Supper”- broken saltines and grape juice. I’m Episcopalian now but grew up being hauled to SB churches.

No saltines for us. ; )  It was Uneeda biscuits and Welch's grape juice.  My grandma was in charge of the communion so I'd eat the leftovers that she brought home.

[SunnyBeBe]

This confidentiality issue really has to be considered when running any kind of criminal or secret enterprise.    In my career and in my life, I have discovered that there are VERY few people who can actually keep information confidential.  It's very difficult, if not impossible for most people.  Even with professionals, they may discuss something offhand to a mate, a colleague, etc.  A lot of people really like to talk and so, the idea that all of Mike's guys would take their secrets to their graves is really implausible.  So, it'll be interesting to see how it pans out.  

The risk of exposure also exist with Jimmy and his cohorts on the letter writing campaign.  Telling that story would have likely been funny for some of those people.  Same goes for the telephone helpers.  They may not be buddies with cops, but, they seem to not realize that loose lips, sink ships. 

[Dobian]

14 hours ago, Bannon said:

So Kim is going to be her own agent of destruction. Shoulda' seen that coming in Gilligan and Gould's Albuquerque universe. The look on her face, alone in her office, after the Mesa Verde meeting, was horribly sad ( and a tribute to Seehorn's acting); she's had the hideous experience of slaving away for years to obtain a prize, has won it, only to discover that it is no prize. Ugh.

Is she ever mentioned on BB?  I don't remember and guessing no since they probably created her for BCS.  But it also implies a bad end for her.  I don't want a bad end for her because I really like this character and she has been a favorite of mine since the first season.  But I know they have kept her on this self-destructive path with Jimmy.  Sigh.

[SailorGirl]

3 hours ago, Bannon said:

Well, Gus could live a very comfortable life as a fast food executive, yet he chooses to sell a hugely destructive intoxicant on the black market, so I wouldn't make the case for his morality too strongly. He's better than a Salamanca or a Don Eladio, but that is placing the bar pretty low.

And if the coati story is true, Gus was a socio/psychopath from a very young age, so I don't see him running his Pollos franchises then coming home to a nice house with a wife and kids to bounce on his knee. . . .

Sorry for all my posts, but hanging out here with you guys is SO much more entertaining than work right now!! 

Edited September 25, 2018 by SailorGirl

[Bannon]

11 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Saul's best con yet

Now, now, nothing will ever top Squat Cobbler, which made me laugh out loud harder than anything I've seen on t.v.!

[SunnyBeBe]

I won't defend Guss or say that he's not a sociopath, but, hasn't his cruelty been reserved for those who impinge on his property or loved ones?  Just recalling those that he has set his designs on to destroy or torture.  The little animal was eating his fruit, others killed those he loved, etc.  I guess he also justified murders to maintain his business territory...........not that it's right......

[SailorGirl]

46 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

What was that thing Kim took out of her desk drawer and was looking at?

Jimmy went to a lot of trouble and expense for Huell - what exactly is his investment in this guy at this stage of his life? I know Huell helped him out with the skateboarding punks and with Chuck earlier on, but is that enough for Jimmy to go to such elaborate lengths for him? Does he fear Huell will squeal about one or both of these things in prison? 

According to the recap, its the bottle topper of Zafiro Anejo -- the show's make-believe high-end tequila. She must have kept it as a souvenir, from the KEN WINS con. 

One image from BrBa, one from BCS (that is actually a better view of the bottle), but the product is the same . . . (and I just love Steven Bauer):

 

 

 

 

 

[Bannon]

I'm tempted to think that Gus may be a very high functioning psychopath/sociopath but for the reaction, depicted in BB, to his partner's murder  which seemed to be normal human grief, in response to the death of someone he genuinely loved. I don't think psychopaths process death quite like that.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Bannon

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I share the skepticism expressed in this thread about the whole Operation G-String outing.  Definitely out of character for Gus and for Mike.  

Another thing, albeit small (nitpicky?) was the revelation that there was an immense rock where the elevator shaft is supposed to go.  This would have been discovered some time ago.  It is odd that it was not already a well known target for demo.  This appears to be foreshadowing.  But, of what?

The ADA reminds me of the FBI agent in Good Behavior who was hellbent on getting Letty (Lady Mary:)).  My projection is she is having an affair with the cop Huel hit.  Kim made a major mistake, imo, bringing in the extra hired guns.  She knew the scam was coming.  Why would she call even more attention to her outrageous investment in Huel?  If I am that ADA, I am making it a point to at least make some basic inquiries.  I'm also making it a point to make Kim's life as a criminal attorney as miserable as possible.

[Ellaria]

29 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I think that we are going to learn about that object, and thus something about Kim.

Wasn't that object the top from the expensive tequila bottle when she was in "Giselle mode?"

There was a sense of doom and dread hanging over this episode. There is different set of expectations when you know the end of some characters (Gus, Mike) but not others. It also creates an impatience in certain story lines because you want to know the part that you don't know: most importantly, what actually happens to Kim. 

After last night, Jimmy and Kim's eventual split is more intriguing than tragic, IMO. She is the architect of her destiny, personally and professionally. She is not blindly following Jimmy down a path of destruction. It sounds strange to say but I am happy with that. Kim needs to do it for herself, good or bad.

Nice to see Nacho again but not nice to see that he has no way out of this life. The use of lighting and perspective to contrast the elements in Nacho's life are well done: the restaurant where he does business is bright and, now, loud with Lalo's music; his home is dark and quiet. Regardless of location, he is trapped. Without knowing his end, I know that he is doomed and that makes me sad. 

Alternatively, I am getting incredibly impatient with the meth lab story line and not in a good way. We know the result. Watching Werner and the boys unravel isn't pleasant or unexpected. Mike has some ugly tasks waiting for him before its all over. He knows it. Gus knows it.  

[qtpye]

22 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Wasn't that object the top from the expensive tequila bottle when she was in "Giselle mode?"

There was a sense of doom and dread hanging over this episode. There is different set of expectations when you know the end of some characters (Gus, Mike) but not others. It also creates an impatience in certain story lines because you want to know the part that you don't know: most importantly, what actually happens to Kim. 

After last night, Jimmy and Kim's eventual split is more intriguing than tragic, IMO. She is the architect of her destiny, personally and professionally. She is not blindly following Jimmy down a path of destruction. It sounds strange to say but I am happy with that. Kim needs to do it for herself, good or bad.

Nice to see Nacho again but not nice to see that he has no way out of this life. The use of lighting and perspective to contrast the elements in Nacho's life are well done: the restaurant where he does business is bright and, now, loud with Lalo's music; his home is dark and quiet. Regardless of location, he is trapped. Without knowing his end, I know that he is doomed and that makes me sad. 

Alternatively, I am getting incredibly impatient with the meth lab story line and not in a good way. We know the result. Watching Werner and the boys unravel isn't pleasant or unexpected. Mike has some ugly tasks waiting for him before its all over. He knows it. Gus knows it.  

3

I agree. I am glad that they do not paint her as a stupid or blind lady "that just can not see Jimmy for who he is" but someone who knows exactly what Jimmy is about and can't get enough of it. Her professional life is in a good place and the smart thing to do would be to get rid of Jimmy and move on to a man who is more on her level but she just can't quit him. He brings the joie de vivre to her life and she needs it in order not to sink into a pit of boredom and despair.

The great thing about Gilligan's writing is that there are always consequences for someone's actions...good or bad. Nacho probably got into this life because it seemed much more glamorous than that of a hard-working entrepreneur like his father. He now has an ultra-modern luxury home that serves as his gilded cage prison. The only two people in his personal life are paid girlfriends who do not give a shit about him and are just there for the money and drugs.

There was an episode of Sopranos where one of Tony's boys just won the lottery. He went to Tony and asked if he could quit the "business" (Mafia) and move to Florida. Tony flatly told him that this was a business that you never left. Once in you are in, it is for life.

They have really made Werner lovable, even Mike is not immune to his charm. I am wondering how much he is getting paid to be a "criminal" civil engineer? My guess is a million dollars and he is of the mind that this is his last job and after this big score, he and his beloved wife can retire and be set for life.

[PeterPirate]

15 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I agree. I am glad that they do not paint her as a stupid or blind lady "that just can not see Jimmy for who he is" but someone who knows exactly what Jimmy is about and can't get enough of it. Her professional life is in a good place and the smart thing to do would be to get rid of Jimmy and move on to a man who is more on her level but she just can't quit him. He brings the joie de vivre to her life and she needs it in order not to sink into a pit of boredom and despair.

Yeah I agree..  Kim is about the most enigmatic TV character I've ever met.  

I've watched her interview with S&C several times and I do not detect any evasiveness on her part.  Maybe there's a dark part of her past, but maybe there isn't.  I'm OK with it either way.  

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, Bannon said:

Oh, the con won't hold up at all if it is looked at hard. The whole thing depends on it appearing to be pointless effort, and the ADA having a huge caseload. Kim's got to have a serious self destructive streak to take this risk, similar to a severe gambling addiction. I really want to have the origin shown to me.

Tequila, but I think you are right. It referenced some previous thrill seeking.

 

No doubt Gus getting out of the meth business would be hard (and yes, the drug business preceded the chicken business), but make no mistake, he chose the drug business, and had other options. He's extremely intelligent.

Yes, he certainly is. But just as important as his intelligence (at least IMHO) is his ruthlessness. I would rank either one of those two qualities as being most important to explain his rise to success.

Thank you Bannon for the correction. It was Tequila and not Vodka.

Edited September 25, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Bannon]

11 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

And I am going to hate it with a passion.  It reeks of predictability.  I still think that in normal real world situations, that entire scene could have easily and more likely caused Howard to kill himself.

Oh, I'm not saying I know how he will be back,  just that I don't think that scene portends him becoming a minor character from that point forward. 

Yeah, if Kim is to have a painful demise, I'd rather it be an outcome that she chose as a possibility.

[nodorothyparker]

Since last episode took place over eight months, I was really hoping we'd get some bit of gossip over what had happened to HHM during that time at the horrible no good very bad S&C office party.  That would have been a natural place to insert Jimmy hearing what had happened to the firm his brother had valued over him and that the fallout from their grudge match had substantially weakened and having some reaction to that.  The fact that we didn't get that suggests to me that there's still plenty more to come on that front too.

If the end result is Kim going down, her being an active participant in her own destruction is definitely preferable to her being a poor put upon victim of Jimmy's.  It's more consistent to character fates in the BB/BCS universe and just once I want to see Chuck having been completely wrong about something he so direly predicted.  He's been proven mostly right about Jimmy, but he didn't know Kim half as well.

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, Bannon said:

I'm tempted to think that Gus may be a very high functioning psychopath/sociopath but for the reaction, depicted in BB, to his partner's murder  which seemed to be normal human grief, in response to the death of someone he genuinely loved. I don't think psychopaths process death quite like that.

Thats what I tend to think. Gus is very, terrifyingly ruthless and cold blooded, but I dont think he is an actual sociopath. He wouldn't have been so broken up by his partners death if he was, and wouldn't have bothered with all this revenge. Maybe he has always been somewhat terrifying (hence the childhood story) but maybe it took his partner dying taking him from having a serious dark side, to the scary guy we now know? 

[LoneHaranguer]

6 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I grew up Roman Catholic, but  have attended various Evangelical  denominations as an adult  and it has been officially called Lord's Supper, but sometimes referred to communion, so I don't think that was a big flub.

And who says the Pastor was always a Baptist?

7 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Unless she first finds evidence online or on the phone, I doubt her boss would approve the time missed from working other cases and the cost of a trip to Louisiana.   That said, a little due diligence on the phone and online would certainly show something is fishy.  If Jimmy used real names of Coushatta residents, she can look them up online and call their home numbers.  If he used fake names, she can find that out online as well.

I think you're overestimating the state of the internet back then.

[Ellaria]

54 minutes ago, qtpye said:

The great thing about Gilligan's writing is that there are always consequences for someone's actions...good or bad. 

Indeed...and that's what makes these characters so compelling. They make their own fairly well-informed choices and, for the most part, understand the consequences of those choices. In the BCS/BB universe, you rarely are left asking "where did that come from."

I'm curious to see how Jimmy and Kim split. Last night's episode put their relationship - and their partnership - into a new light. How far is Kim willing to go? 

I keep coming back to the opening scene in "Quite A Ride" when Saul is trashing his office and Francesca is shredding documents:

• We see Saul hand Francesca a card (presumably) for a lawyer and say "Tell 'em Jimmy sent ya." 
• Then, he tells her to be somewhere on Nov. 12 at 3PM.

There is a bit of mystery in this scene which is unusual for BCS because we know the end of its major characters. Part of me believes that this connects back to Kim somehow. 

[scenario]

Unless the Germans try to blackmail Gus, what could go wrong with a little slip back in Germany? Werner talking in the bar was minor. What would a cop do if one of the people in the bar came in and told them that a bunch of Germans were in the bar and one of them was talking about building stuff? Unless the police are actively looking for a secret drug lab, they'll ignore it. It's really a low risk issue. The chances of a police officer putting two and two together by listening to someones remembering a one time drunken conversation in a bar is nil.

Once the workers go back to Germany, the problem goes away. So they tell someone when they're drunk that they worked somewhere in the desert of America building something secret and made a lot of money. Drunk people in bars say stuff all the time. If you believe all the drunk people in bars it wouldn't take long to find a few that worked as spies for the CIA or something similar.  Whose going to go bother researching something on a vague hint that someone, somewhere might have done something wrong? The problem would be if one of them tried to blackmail Gus. 

[peggy06]

16 hours ago, MBayGal said:

When I watched BrBa -- several times -- I might have wondered for random seconds here and there about how they got the lab under the laundromat.  I am soooo tired of this endless construction project taking up so much of every episode.  I'd even rather see the cartel business than that, mainly because I care about Nacho.  I care about none of the Germans, or what it took to build the lab.

I never wondered about it for a second. It never occurred to me to think about it. I've rolled my eyes a few times at this plotline, but have concluded that it's character development for Mike and development of the relationship between him and Gus.

[Macbeth]

11 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I did a Finder-Spyder search and found a link to Huell's church! :)

 

http://www.freewill-baptistchurch.com/index.php

That's fantastic. Thank you. 

Under "other ministries" I found "Breaking Bread: Community Communion".  Priceless 

I clicked on donate and you are linked to an actual charity. 

[nodorothyparker]

10 minutes ago, peggy06 said:

I never wondered about it for a second. It never occurred to me to think about it. I've rolled my eyes a few times at this plotline, but have concluded that it's character development for Mike and development of the relationship between him and Gus.

I never wondered about it either, although now that we know that it was created after the fact it makes sense.  If there had been a basement of record existing somewhere in building specs say on file with the city, it would have been much easier for Hank and company to figure out where the lab might actually be.  That still doesn't mean I ever gave it any time thinking about it before now.

[Bryce Lynch]

49 minutes ago, LoneHaranguer said:

And who says the Pastor was always a Baptist?

I think you're overestimating the state of the internet back then.

The internet was pretty robust by 2004.  I'm sure they had online white pages by then.

Even if they didn't, the ADA could call the local DA or police and ask them to look the people up.  She could also have called 411.   One way or another, it wouldn't take long to find out that at least some of the letters were bogus.  Plus she could ask about Free Will Baptist Church.

The more I think about it, the more I think this is going to blow up in their faces. Their only hope is that the ADA has moved on from it.

28 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

That's fantastic. Thank you. 

Under "other ministries" I found "Breaking Bread: Community Communion".  Priceless 

I clicked on donate and you are linked to an actual charity. 

The testimonials and the email addresses of the church staff are great too.

[maystone]

11 hours ago, Pat Hoolihan said:

Tucumcari population is around 5300.  It would have trouble supporting a big new bank like that. The city is mentioned repeatedly simply as a shout-out to For A Few Dollars More. And that they do this sort of thing is one of the things I like about this show and the writers.

I didn't know about that reference. For me it immediately brings up the lyrics to "Willin'" I've been from Tucson to Tucumcari, Tehachapi to Tonapah. And the song has been an ear worm since Monday night :)
 

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

Since last episode took place over eight months, I was really hoping we'd get some bit of gossip over what had happened to HHM during that time at the horrible no good very bad S&C office party.  That would have been a natural place to insert Jimmy hearing what had happened to the firm his brother had valued over him and that the fallout from their grudge match had substantially weakened and having some reaction to that.  The fact that we didn't get that suggests to me that there's still plenty more to come on that front too.

If the end result is Kim going down, her being an active participant in her own destruction is definitely preferable to her being a poor put upon victim of Jimmy's.  It's more consistent to character fates in the BB/BCS universe and just once I want to see Chuck having been completely wrong about something he so direly predicted.  He's been proven mostly right about Jimmy, but he didn't know Kim half as well.

Not only was Chuck right about Jimmy, Kim's behavior shows that Howard was probably right not to start trusting her again, and let her out of doc review, as soon as she recruited MV.

[peggy06]

Regarding the Huell con: I think it was something we're just supposed to accept that it worked, even though it seems outlandish. If the ADA bought Jimmy's atrocious version of a Cajun accent, she'll swallow plenty of unlikely things. My hope is that we don't hear any more about this plot.

My take on why Kim did it is that she started in to represent Huell the right way, and the ADA dug in her heels so hard that it set Kim's back up. Then it became personal. She was going to beat this charge. As to why she decided to do it so illegally, that's harder to figure. In the previous episode, it seemed like she did it to stop Jimmy from making his own position worse by hiding Huell. I assumed she had come up with something legal - very much not so! And then Jimmy was in the plot just as deep, so she wasn't saving him from anything. How she went from being upset with Jimmy for selling drop phones, to concocting a completely fraudulent scheme, is something I can't figure.

[maystone]

9 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

The DA's office may not have the resources to track down the truth about Coushatta, LA.  But Howard does have the resources to do so, if he gets wind of what happened.  Indeed, he may have been keeping tabs on the adventures of Wexler and McGill.  

HHM has fallen on hard times. Howard appeared to be knee deep in woes; I don't think he has the money, staff, or inclination to concentrate on anything but his own firm's survival.

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

AND OH, I have lived in the south my entire life and all of the Baptists,. Methodists, Holiness, Free Will Baptists, called the wine and bread communion.  They would all know what the Lord's Supper was too, but, it could be used interchangeably, in my region. (NC)

In non-denominational and Assemblies of God churches from California to Illinois it goes by both communion and the Lord's Supper too, so that's not a red flag. OTOH, I thought Bob Odenkirk seemed to purposely let his fake Cajun accent slip, but maybe that was just BO stoking the tension of the risks of them getting caught in their scam rather than anything in the script or direction. Regardless, through a number of little potential slips throughout the episode (e.g., Jimmy allowing his finger prints to be deposited on the letters) the audience gets a taste of the excitement of the risk of the con that attracts Kim and Jimmy.

 

18 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Not only was Chuck right about Jimmy, Kim's behavior shows that Howard was probably right not to start trusting her again, and let her out of doc review, as soon as she recruited MV.

Good point! But that still makes Howard a crappy boss, IMO, based on shenanigans I've seen at my own workplace over many years. That is, rather than punishing Kim in Doc Review, he should have written up a type of agreement for her to sign outlining steps she would take to prove she understood HHM's ethical and other requirements going forward. Perhaps then Kim might have chosen a less legally fraught path--or not. But punishing Kim in Doc Review might have served to more firmly ingrain her sense of an us-versus-them mentality, with "them" being the "establishment."

[nodorothyparker]

15 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Not only was Chuck right about Jimmy, Kim's behavior shows that Howard was probably right not to start trusting her again, and let her out of doc review, as soon as she recruited MV.

This has been argued and argued and argued some more down into the ground and past the water table.  Maybe.  Maybe not  There's also an argument to be made that had Howard not been such a hardass Kim wouldn't have been so willing to consider the original offer from S&C, which led to her going building partners but not law partners with Jimmy, which led to the fight over Mesa Verde that resulted in such catastrophic fallout for both Brothers McGill.  Kim might have stayed ensconced at HHM plugging away on Mesa Verde and never gotten a taste for the con beyond the occasional Gisele and Viktor with a K caper that never netted anything beyond checks to dummy corporations they never cashed and expensive tequila.  We're all going to think what we're going to think on the subject.

[Pike Ludwell]

53 minutes ago, maystone said:

I didn't know about that reference. For me it immediately brings up the lyrics to "Willin'" I've been from Tucson to Tucumcari, Tehachapi to Tonapah. And the song has been an ear worm since Monday night :)
 

Vince Gilligan is an admitted big fan of spaghetti westerns. Tuco is a reference to the character in The Good The Bad & The Ugly. They like to throw in references to certain movies. So it seems entirely plausible there is a connection with Tucumcari.

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Not only was Chuck right about Jimmy, Kim's behavior shows that Howard was probably right not to start trusting her again, and let her out of doc review, as soon as she recruited MV.

We've beaten this to death, but this deterministic view of human behavior, that people will act in a certain way, without regard to stimuli they receive from their environment, is just at odds with empirical reality.

[Ailianna]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

the ADA could call the local DA or police and ask them to look the people up. 

You've clearly never tried to get an out of jurisdiction prosecutor's or police department to do you a favor.  It might actually be faster to drive there herself.  I'm still waiting for help from 2013 I was promised on a homicide case.  Even just another county can be a pain--out of state--there is no reason for them to drop everything they have going on to do you a favor other than their generosity of spirit and with the number of cases most prosecutors have, it can be very draining on generosity of spirit.

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, Ailianna said:

You've clearly never tried to get an out of jurisdiction prosecutor's or police department to do you a favor.  It might actually be faster to drive there herself.  I'm still waiting for help from 2013 I was promised on a homicide case.  Even just another county can be a pain--out of state--there is no reason for them to drop everything they have going on to do you a favor other than their generosity of spirit and with the number of cases most prosecutors have, it can be very draining on generosity of spirit.

I think people who don't deal with the criminal justice system underestimate how bureaucratic inertia governs it.

[PeterPirate]

37 minutes ago, maystone said:

HHM has fallen on hard times. Howard appeared to be knee deep in woes; I don't think he has the money, staff, or inclination to concentrate on anything but his own firm's survival.

Well, it's been a couple episodes since we heard from Howard.  Someone else noted that If HHM had gone under there would have been news about it by now. 

Hiring a PI to keep tabs on Kim and Jimmy wouldn't be very costly.  It's my opinion that it is in Howard's psychological interest to seek/face the truth about what happened at HHM and maybe try to get some payback.  Howard of Monte Cristo, as it were.